iPhone Details: 5 Years on AT&T, Verizon's Answer?

[iKwick7]

Ouch. I always thought it was 2.

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/2007-05-21-at&t-iphone_N.htm

O well- I guess now I know I won't wait for it to come to T-Mobile.

credit www.engadget.com for the link

[neven]

Wowza. I don't care which carrier I go with (they all suck equally) but AT&T better offer really, really good plans. If there is widespread customer dissatisfaction with AT&T's handling of iPhone, Steve is going to be putting his foot very far up Sigman's ass. Nobody messes with Steve's baby.

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/2007-05-21-at&t-iphone_N.htm) reports in the intense competition in the mobile phone industry. With 78% of U.S. household with a mobile phone, customer growth now relies on customer acquisition from other providers.

In this ongoing battle, the iPhone is a key player:
"I'm glad we have (the iPhone) in our bag," he says. "Others will try to match it, but for a period of time, they're going to be playing catch-up."
USA Today confirms that the iPhone is contractually bound to AT&T as an exclusive for a period of five years. Previous reports had varied, with one report claiming the deal as lasting through 2009 (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/12/cingular-ties-several-more-iphone-models-and-more-details/) instead. Apple is also said to be prohibited from creating a CDMA version of the iPhone during this time.

Verizon had the first shot at the iPhone prior to the Cingular deal but was unwilling to concede to Apple's demands (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/29/verizon-rejected-iphone-deal-due-to-apples-terms/). Verizon has yet to admit that passing on the iPhone was a mistake:
Denny Strigl, Verizon's chief operating officer, decided to pass on the iPhone deal and says he has no regrets: "Time will tell" if he made the right call, he says.
But with the obvious interest in the iPhone, they are preparing "an answer" to the iPhone.
Given Apple's cultlike following, however, Verizon isn't taking any chances. Strigl says Verizon is already working with a manufacturer — he declines to say which one — on an answer to the iPhone. "We do have a very good response in the mill," he says. "You'll see that from us in the late summer."

[TheSlush]

But with the obvious interest in the iPhone, they are preparing "an answer" to the iPhone.

So, anyone scared? :D

[atomwork]

yeah. time will tell. I really want to know how much it really can do.
Java, Flash swf files, Office documents and more. if you can't use it for business what's the deal.

[bloodycape]

the phone aint out yet and they are touting is a kill come on.

[elppa]

I wonder if they (Verizon) have got the ZunePhone?

:eek:

[BobbyDigital]

I really don't think Verizon could make a better interface than the iPhone (from what I've seen of it so far). Verizon's interfaces are what makes their phones bland and boring. I am getting an iPhone in June, but I am really excited to see what the other manufacturers come up with to take on the competition of the iPhone.

[iKwick7]

I wonder if they (Verizon) have got the ZunePhone?

:eek:

Ugggh. Double throw up for me right there- I HATE Verizon with a passion and I hate Microsoft products (except for the 360, of course). Let them have it!

[Doctor Q]

Quote:Denny Strigl, Verizon's chief operating officer, decided to pass on the iPhone deal and says he has no regrets: "Time will tell" if he made the right call, he says.A good choice of phrase for a phone executive!


Apple is certainly getting all the attention for now. As competitors pop up from Verizon and others, we'll find out how seriously they contend. And of course we'll see if Apple does as well in their new Marketplace as they expect. Perhaps it's a battle for attention but for a relatively small number of sales.

[jettredmont]

So, anyone scared? :D

Given there's no way in HELL that I'm going to use AT&T, I think the term is "resigned" and "hopeful". Hopefully Verizon's answer is better than what's out there.

With this news, the iPhone is officially dead to me. There's no way I'm signing up with AT&T, both from past corporate practices and from current network suckage.

IMHO, this is a major mis-step from Apple. I hope it is being mis-reported. But, barring that, I hope the iPhone at least inspires someone to build a better phone and offer it in conjunction with a less disgusting service provider.

[mags631]

yeah. time will tell. I really want to know how much it really can do.
Java, Flash swf files, Office documents and more. if you can't use it for business what's the deal.

Maybe they can put little feet on the bottom of the phone so that it can stand upright, and it become the missing <$1000 tower in Apple's Mac line up.:rolleyes:

I really hope that it does live up to the hype about it being easy to use to MAKE CALLS -- not full of gadgets and useless crap that I'll never use.

[JtheLemur]

No CDMA version for 5 years? That pretty much discounts me getting an iPhone for 5 years. GSM is garbage in this country, anyone living in a city will tell you that. Ya know, areas with buildings where the GSM reception drops my an order of magnitude when you step inside? Yeah.

[elppa]

I think they should spread themselves across many providers.

I can see the advantages of going with one in the short term, but in the long term it is not the best strategy.

That's why five years is maybe a bit excessive.

Still if it's not working out I wouldn't put it past Apple to find some clever get-out, like they did with the clone manufacturers.

[kitki83]

I wish I can get a deal being a loyal ATT then Cingular costumer and now returning to ATT. I like the service never had a problem. My cell lets me know when the reception is not good enough that it wont make the call.I got a nice family package thats ridiculous.

As for Verizon gets for being ego, haha like I heard from someone, when new technology comes out theres three ways companies approach it
1. Hate it
2. Wait and see what happens
3. Jump on it

Wonder what Verizon and M$ are at?

[RichP]

I would expect most likely LG is the manufacturer, M$ being a distant second. CDMA is big in Korea, and LG seems to be pushing their more experimental phones with Verizon as it is.

Whatever it is, expect it to be functionally and visually derivative of iphone, with more, but less useful, features.

[nagromme]

The "iPhone killers" will be rolling out for years to come. Just like the "iPod killers." Some might even be as thin and light as the iPhone (compared to the usual bricklike smartphones) but they won't have Apple ease-of-use, iTunes integration, or multitouch.

And they won't have Apple's mindshare. Every time one of them comes out, the articles and reviews will also mention iPhone. Free press for Apple every time a competitor is mentioned! Must be nice :)

I do want to see 3G speeds come to iPhone--and Apple has already announced that this is coming. I don't so much care about CDMA specifically though.

[MisterMe]

...

But with the obvious interest in the iPhone, they are preparing "an answer" to the iPhone.Verizon to Customers: "We don't have a clue."

[x86isslow]

Not allowed to make CDMA version, nothing said about iDen. Imagine a rubberized-yellow iPhone with a multitouch push-to-talk thingie.

[mrowl]

5 years? Great! The verizon software is Horrible.... And I have never had a problem with at&t/cingular/at&t. Have been with them for 10 years, and now, cant wait to sign a new contract with an iPhone.

[BiikeMike]

Ya know, I'm not that impressed with the iPhone, BUT, I do have to say that Apple is REALLY good at what they do! This product has been publicly displayed for a grand total of under 5 hours, and has thrown the whole cellular industry for a loop. The fact that people are working on something to directly compete with a product that is not even out yet amazes me.

I think the :apple: iPhone is the same phenomenon as the iPod. There are plenty of players out there, many of which are BETTER than the iPod, but... everyone still wants an iPod. Apple really is good.

[nagromme]

I think the :apple: iPhone is the same phenomenon as the iPod. There are plenty of players out there, many of which are BETTER than the iPod, but... everyone still wants an iPod. Apple really is good.

Yes, good at marketing and style... but ALSO good at ease-of-use. THAT is what makes the iPod and iPhone, in conjunction with iTunes, so appealing. And there is nothing "better" than iPod+iTunes when it comes to ease of use.

[puckhead193]

Verizon has yet to admit that passing on the iPhone was a mistake:

But with the obvious interest in the iPhone, they are preparing "an answer" to the iPhone.

I can't wait till my stock switches and becomes verizon wireless, i REALLY want to yell at them at shareholders meeting and ask what the "flack" were you thinking!?!?!?!?!??!?!??!?

I think their answer is going to be a version the prada... :(

[andy.c]

Would this prevent Apple from making a 3G version for European market? They said it would be available here in Q4 but an Iphone without 3G wouldn't make it far here.

[x86isslow]

Would this prevent Apple from making a 3G version for European market? They said it would be available here in Q4 but an Iphone without 3G wouldn't make it far here.

Your GSM is different from ours... will iPhone be Quad-band?

[Osarkon]

Unless the phone comes onto a pay-as-you-go tariff in the UK then no sale here.
A contract I might settle for, but no phone is worth a 5 year contract. 18 months maximum.

Sorry Apple, i'm not biting this time. ;)

[slffl]

'Cultlike following'? Give me a break. I'm so sick of that fanboy talking-point.

[andy.c]

Unless the phone comes onto a pay-as-you-go tariff in the UK then no sale here.
A contract I might settle for, but no phone is worth a 5 year contract. 18 months maximum.

Sorry Apple, i'm not biting this time. ;)
It's not going to be sold with a 5 year contract, what they mean is that AT&T have it exclusivly for 5 years.

[miketcool]

Cultlike? reponse?

Nintendo Phone
Zune Phone
Trump Phone

[xfiftyfour]

Would this prevent Apple from making a 3G version for European market? They said it would be available here in Q4 but an Iphone without 3G wouldn't make it far here.
Why would it? That 5-year deal isn't an exclusive Rev A iPhone, it means that all the updates and revisions of the iPhone for the next 5 years will be through Cingular (in the US). I don't think it'll be long before Apple bumps it to a 3G here in the US, and certainly by the time it's available in Europe it'll be 3G as well (especially considering the market over there demands that technology).

[cloudnine]

I really don't think Verizon could make a better interface than the iPhone (from what I've seen of it so far). Verizon's interfaces are what makes their phones bland and boring. I am getting an iPhone in June, but I am really excited to see what the other manufacturers come up with to take on the competition of the iPhone.

I have to agree... on one hand, I'm upset that the iPhone isn't going to be on Verizon's network, since they have an amazingly reliable and fast network; yet I'm totally relieved that the iPhone's not going with Verizon since they feel the need to cripple everything that comes with a phone... they disable bluetooth unless you pay for it, their menus are horrible, everything has that horrible red color scheme... basically it slows down every phone they sell...

I'm excited to see how Apple and AT&T work together... I'm hoping there won't be any extraneous AT&T branding on the iPhone. Imagine a phone sold the same way it was produced... it may actually work fast and efficiently!

[xfiftyfour]

'Cultlike following'? Give me a break. I'm so sick of that fanboy talking-point.
If you don't think there is a cultlike following to Apple products, then you are VERY dense.

[rjwill246]

Mmmm.... "Never use ATT because the service sucks." I guess that is why they tie for number one! GSM sucks 'cause it drops out going into buildings. Well, I have used just about every known system in Australia, Europe and parts of Asia- and no carrier has achieved great reception all the time.
My GSM Motorola v500, used in OZ, the UK and the US had by far the best reception but another carrier's GSM phone (Nokia 6300 triband) was nowhere near as good in OZ and the UK. I think the particular phone and system are the keys.

My current Razr (3G-- is pretty bad, losing signal very quickly in the suburbs)- and it is with ATT, but T-mobile in the same areas was worse. Current usage area is Newport Beach, CA to LA proper.

I think that the "I won't use..." 'cause "such and such sucks" is pretty puerile. Anyway, no skin off Apple's or ATT's noses. They are going to have to gallop full speed right out of the gate. You don't have to be in the race, mates, the field is already crowded.

[A is jump]

Whatever verizon. you're already loosing my buisness.

[rjwill246]

If you don't think there is a cultlike following to Apple products, then you are VERY dense.

Like the prior observer notes, that is silly. The cult thing is absurd but if you think admiration for a better than usual performance compared the rest of the crowd is cultlike, then your definition of cult is fine by me, even if inaccurate by dictionary definitions.

The fact that Apple gets so many industry awards, rated by experts, should make you think before offering your hardly comparable 2 bits worth.

There is however a strong anti-Mac cult. Are you one of the floundering, er.. founding members?

[Tattoo]

The "iPhone killers" will be rolling out for years to come. Just like the "iPod killers." Some might even be as thin and light as the iPhone (compared to the usual bricklike smartphones) but they won't have Apple ease-of-use, iTunes integration, or multitouch.

And they won't have Apple's mindshare. Every time one of them comes out, the articles and reviews will also mention iPhone. Free press for Apple every time a competitor is mentioned! Must be nice :)

I do want to see 3G speeds come to iPhone--and Apple has already announced that this is coming. I don't so much care about CDMA specifically though.

I agree! Dollar short and a day late. Let them come! Welcome the competition as it just makes Apple better! :apple: :D

[xfiftyfour]

Mmmm.... "Never use ATT because the service sucks." I guess that is why they tie for number one! GSM sucks 'cause it drops out going into buildings. Well, I have used just about every known system in Australia, Europe and parts of Asia- and no carrier has achieved great reception all the time.
My GSM Motorola v500, used in OZ, the UK and the US had by far the best reception but another carrier's GSM phone (Nokia 6300 triband) was nowhere near as good in OZ and the UK. I think the particular phone and system are the keys.

My current Razr (3G-- is pretty bad, losing signal very quickly in the suburbs)- and it is with ATT, but T-mobile in the same areas was worse. Current usage area is Newport Beach, CA to LA proper.

I think that the "I won't use..." 'cause "such and such sucks" is pretty puerile. Anyway, no skin off Apple's or ATT's noses. They are going to have to gallop full speed right out of the gate. You don't have to be in the race, mates, the field is already crowded.
Agreed. I understand some areas aren't the best for some networks, but to say that Cingular sucks in general is a one-sided argument. For me (and for MANY MANY others), Cingular's service has been top-notch. I very rarely do not have signal, nor do I get calls dropped. I've also found the sales rep/customer service to be great as well. Heck, they even let us (we're on a family plan) downgrade our service when we realized we'd stopped using so many minutes or certain services - all without penalty.

[mmzplanet]

This could hurt Apples iPhone hopes. What if at&t doesn't live up to their end of the deal and service blows. Having to stick out 5 years with a bad provider will ruin any momentum the iPhone has going for it.

I bet this contract has a way out for both parties.

[DavidLeblond]

Mmmm.... "Never use ATT because the service sucks." I guess that is why they tie for number one!

As someone who has Verizon, and hates them... I can't believe I'm about to stick up for them... but here goes nothing.

ATT ties for number one? Cite your source, buddy... as far as network goes, Consumer Reports constantly rates Verizon above ATT/Cingular. I think Alltel even got higher marks than ATT/Cingular. That would make them third.

Keep in mind, I'm talking about the network, not overall. But really, if you don't have a strong network then whats the point anyway right?

[mrweirdo]

verizon...

NO iPhone For You! :D

[andy.c]

Why would it? That 5-year deal isn't an exclusive Rev A iPhone, it means that all the updates and revisions of the iPhone for the next 5 years will be through Cingular (in the US). I don't think it'll be long before Apple bumps it to a 3G here in the US, and certainly by the time it's available in Europe it'll be 3G as well (especially considering the market over there demands that technology).
That's nice to hear! :) I'm for sure one of many who would love a 3G version of the Iphone...

[Osarkon]

It's not going to be sold with a 5 year contract, what they mean is that AT&T have it exclusivly for 5 years.

Oooh. Oops, my mistake :o

Tying it to a single service providor is still going to hurt sales though. And i'm stubbornly refusing to change provider just to get a phone they have :)

[xfiftyfour]

Like the prior observer notes, that is silly. The cult thing is absurd but if you think admiration for a better than usual performance compared the rest of the crowd is cultlike, then your definition of cult is fine by me, even if inaccurate by dictionary definitions.

The fact that Apple gets so many industry awards, rated by experts, should make you think before offering your hardly comparable 2 bits worth.

There is however a strong anti-Mac cult. Are you one of the floundering, er.. founding members?
Why would I be such a long-term member of a Mac forum if I was anti-mac?

And I'm sorry, but although I agree that Apple is often at the top, there IS a cult-like following.. oftentimes MANY (myself included) excuse Apple's shortcomings "just cause".. we find ourselves excusing blatant mistakes or oversights, where we would normally accost another.

Take, for example, the QC problems of the MB, the RAM and HD prices via Apple (even moreso in the past), the lack of a fuller lineup, the cost of their displays, the cost versus specs of the mini, the Leopard delay (Vista, what?)... it goes on and on. Every company has these, but somehow Apple's followers (again, myself included), overlook these and just accept them - and just continue tying ourselves to our computers and looking for rumors about what's around the next corner.

It's cult-like.. and has ALWAYS been a factor of Apple.

[mmzplanet]

Agreed. I understand some areas aren't the best for some networks, but to say that Cingular sucks in general is a one-sided argument. For me (and for MANY MANY others), Cingular's service has been top-notch. I very rarely do not have signal, nor do I get calls dropped. I've also found the sales rep/customer service to be great as well. Heck, they even let us (we're on a family plan) downgrade our service when we realized we'd stopped using so many minutes or certain services - all without penalty.


I'm glad its been great for you. Spend some time in FL and you will change your mind pretty quick.

For me it comes down to this....

iPhone- I love it so much.....I want one now
Cingular/at&t - I think I can do without an iPhone

The iPhone is going to be awesome.... as long as you dont need to connect to anything. (At least in my area)

[BengalDuck]

My Verizon contract runs out next December.


I am countin gthe days...

[Island Dog]

I'm just not impressed with the whole "iPhone" anymore. I seriously doubt I will get the first editions now. I want to wait a bit and see where it goes.

[xfiftyfour]

I'm glad its been great for you. Spend some time in FL and you will change your mind pretty quick.

For me it comes down to this....

iPhone- I love it so much.....I want one now
Cingular/at&t - I think I can do without an iPhone

The iPhone is going to be awesome.... as long as you dont need to connect to anything. (At least in my area)
Like I said, I know that Cingular isn't great everywhere (although I've never had a problem anywhere I've gone), but I'm just so sick of hearing that "Cingular sucks all over" - because it doesn't... not by a long shot.

[/dev/toaster]

Not allowed to make CDMA version, nothing said about iDen. Imagine a rubberized-yellow iPhone with a multitouch push-to-talk thingie.

In the US, they can not produce anything except what will work on AT&T's network.

God, if they created one for Nextel I would have to throw up. Nextel has some of the worst phones on earth.

[/dev/toaster]

My Verizon contract runs out next December.


I am countin gthe days...

My Verizon contract ends a few days before the iPhone is released. :D

Sucks that I won't be able to get my deposit for 30 days after, but its a $1000 deposit.

[rjwill246]

As someone who has Verizon, and hates them... I can't believe I'm about to stick up for them... but here goes nothing.

ATT ties for number one? Cite your source, buddy...


April 19, 2006, 1:03 PM PDT
Cingular soars, Moto's market share rises
Posted by: Kent German

Cingular said today it added 1.7 million subscribers in the first quarter of 2006, boosting the carrier's total customers to 55.8 million. Cingular also said it has reduced subscriber churn to an all-time low of 1.9 percent. On the financial front, the nation's largest carrier reported good news as well. For the first quarter of this year, revenues were $9 billion, an improvement of 9.1 percent since the first quarter of 2005.


So, you can't read, either? And, while it is not the latest data, unless you want to be a cultist anti-mac person and split already split hairs, these numbers are reasonable. Yeah??

[jklps]

Only one carrier in my area works while down in the subway system(Verizon)..

I don't love their phones(getting a little better) or their customer service(I only order new phones online that are shipped to me) but being able to use them on the subway plus in-network with nearly everyone I know having Verizon(plus, equally important, unlimited text messages)..

I think I'm just gonna get a phone that's a phone..ie to make calls.

And seriously, I don't want to walk around with an item that could be this delicate...at times, uh, I walk under the influence,..so I beat up my phone a bit and get a new one every two years...I would just care too much about the iPhone.

Any flash based mp3 player doesn't interest me personally that much..I want the 100gb iPod.

That all being said, I'll gladly check out any iPhones that my friends get to see it and marvel at it..just don't like the price/storage size and do not want to be that careful with my phone.

[xfiftyfour]

Sucks that I won't be able to get my deposit for 30 days after, but its a $1000 deposit.
:eek:

And I thought our $200 deposit sucked.

[kamiboy]

Given Apple's cultlike following, however, Verizon isn't taking any chances. Strigl says Verizon is already working with a manufacturer — he declines to say which one — on an answer to the iPhone.

The copy products never succeed, never have never will. The phone manufacturers had 10+ years to develop something as attractive as the iPhone, but they were too clueless to get it. Instead they flooded the market by just squeezing out one mediocre device after the other sporting only marginal improvements. After I saw the Keynote by Jobs I can't look at other phones the same way again, they all look and feel like children's toys to me.

[DavidLeblond]

So, you can't read, either? And, while it is not the latest data, unless you want to be a cultist anti-mac person and split already split hairs, these numbers are reasonable. Yeah??

Did you actually READ my post? Try reading it before you decide to post something snarky, you'll avoid making yourself look like an idiot.

I'm not anti-mac, far from it. I even said in my post that I hated Verizon, so I'm not even pro-Verizon. Of course, you didn't read my post so you wouldn't know that.

[notsofatjames]

5 years is an awfully long time, especially in a market that moves as fast as the cell phone market! It sounds like AT+T have got a good deal on this, as long as the iPhone is as successful as the iPod

[Sweetfeld28]

My contract has been up for months. I am just waiting for the iPhone to get to stores so i can play with it. Then i will determine if i want to blow $500 on a phone or not.

I honestly have had Verizon since high school, and have had excellent service any where i have gone. However, i do have a coup-le of friends that have had Cingular in my area, and they claim that they have had alright service.

I just hope that if i do throw down for an iPhone, i will have good service. This is why i am so going to use those 7, or 14, Trial Days from Cinular before i fully jump ship from Verizon.

[yzp]

they better never got it to CDMA...... it aint 31337!

also, I guess moto or nokia is working on a phone which will try to be as h0t as the :apple: 's

[jettredmont]

Mmmm.... "Never use ATT because the service sucks." I guess that is why they tie for number one!

The assumed qualifier is "in my area". It is assumed in any and all conversations about cell phone service quality. It's why "least dropped calls" is meaningless, even if a respectable third party could give us a verdict.

I live in northern California. I have never, ever met a person happy with Cingular's coverage anywhere between the Golden Gate and Tahoe. As crappy as Verizon's interface-mangling is, their network works perfectly in at least 95% of the places I go, and passably well in all places I go. Cingular works barely-passably in the vast majority of places I go. How do I know? Because I pay attention to people when they lose their calls places, or are holding their phone out trying to "raise the bar" on the screen. They tend, by and large, to be Cingular customers (or RAZR owners ... yes, crappy phones get crappy reception too). And Cingular's market share in this area is significantly below Verizon's, so if it's a noticable majority of service failures that means that the percent of dissatisfied customers is huge relative to Verizon. Therefore, in my area, the AT&T service sucks. Period. Nothing is going to change about that until they buy more quality airwave bandwidth here (and who is going to sell that to them?) and start putting up towers in the slightly-remote areas.

I think that the "I won't use..." 'cause "such and such sucks" is pretty puerile. Anyway, no skin off Apple's or ATT's noses. They are going to have to gallop full speed right out of the gate. You don't have to be in the race, mates, the field is already crowded.

Yes, all great marketing ideas start off with excluding all hope of reaching huge portions of the market for an artificial five-year period. You're right.

The point is this: just purely from a service perspective, in different regions and sub-regions of the country there are clear winners and there are clear losers. My understanding is that if you look at the company who bought the first low-band licenses in an area then you'll et a pretty good idea of the best service providers (assuming tower saturation, certain bands provide better reception) ... I'm too lazy to look up the details again, but suffice to say: hereabouts that was Verizon (well, the company that was bought by the company that merged into the company that was renamed Verizon). Elsewhere doubtless it was Cingular.

While the phone companies "war" with each other and two companies share the majority of the US market, that's highly deceptive. For many customers, there really is no choice. It's not that we're not in the market yet. It's that the alternative sucks where we live, and there's just no changing that.

Tying itself to a single provider means that Apple will not compete in any meaningful way in huge swathes of the country, because that single provider covers probably about 75% of the country well enough to be competitive and already dominates in about 50% of the country.

In any case, as I said, the iPhone becomes officially dead to me if this statement is true. I don't know what phone I'll be buying in five years. I might be thinking about my "next" phone (in about six months probably) or vaguely about the one after that (2.5 years) ... but five years out? That's three or four phone replacement cycles (for me I suppose I could stretch it into the third in about four and a half years)! Why even think about it? It's dead.

So, like I said, I'm hopeful LG really can come up with something to blow Apple's iPhone away, and resigned to the fact that I won't be using the iPhone, ever (assuming that whatever is called an iPhone in five years will bear little significant resemblance to the iPhone of today).

[bigmc6000]

No CDMA version for 5 years? That pretty much discounts me getting an iPhone for 5 years. GSM is garbage in this country, anyone living in a city will tell you that. Ya know, areas with buildings where the GSM reception drops my an order of magnitude when you step inside? Yeah.

In my office building (over a mile long massive structure) Cingular (AT&T) is the ONLY company that gets service inside the walls (a full 5 bars). I had Verizon and I got nothing, T-Mobile gets nothing, Sprint gets nothing, you get my point.

Come up with a legitimate complaint - not just because the tower near your office is a long @ss way away.

[johnee]

seriously, at $500, i don't see this being a very big deal. i'm glad verizon passed on apple. apple is pain to work with.

no matter what happens, at&t will get screwed in the deal and apple will get all the money.

[johnee]

In my office building (over a mile long massive structure) Cingular (AT&T) is the ONLY company that gets service inside the walls (a full 5 bars). I had Verizon and I got nothing, T-Mobile gets nothing, Sprint gets nothing, you get my point.

Come up with a legitimate complaint - not just because the tower near your office is a long @ss way away.

that's cause at&t has a tower close by. your phone isn't setup to use any available service or you would be paying lots of money to get high signal strength.

[DavidLeblond]

So, like I said, I'm hopeful LG really can come up with something to blow Apple's iPhone away, and resigned to the fact that I won't be using the iPhone, ever (assuming that whatever is called an iPhone in five years will bear little significant resemblance to the iPhone of today).

Verizon also needs to drop that slow, ugly, useless universal interface too. GOD do I hate that thing.

[slffl]

If you don't think there is a cultlike following to Apple products, then you are VERY dense.

Ok Mr. Know-It-All, how about you back up your unfounded statement? I would just LOVE to hear your reason(s).

[SiliconAddict]

What basically means I won't be owning an iPhone anywhere in the near future. Way to hang yourself Apple :rolleyes:

[jettredmont]

Verizon also needs to drop that slow, ugly, useless universal interface too. GOD do I hate that thing.

Absolutely agree. Although it's not a big deal on my Treo (the only input from Verizon is the network connect and disconnect logo), the Verizon UI is a horrid mess on my wife's phone.

Still, an ugly/non-intuitive UI I can live with a lot easier than a lack of service.

[xfiftyfour]

Ok Mr. Know-It-All, how about you back up your unfounded statement? I would just LOVE to hear your reason(s).
Read the thread. I already did.

kthxbye.

[SiliconAddict]

Ok Mr. Know-It-All, how about you back up your unfounded statement? I would just LOVE to hear your reason(s).

:rolleyes: You are kidding right? When you have people posting pictures of unboxing ceremonies....Seriously dude. Dense as a neutron star.

[bigmc6000]

that's cause at&t has a tower close by. your phone isn't setup to use any available service or you would be paying lots of money to get high signal strength.

The argument as presented was that GSM doesn't go through walls and CDMA does. I got 4 bars the second I walked outside my office building when I had Verizon. With Cingular I ALWAYS get 5 bars. I was just pointing out the fallacy involved in saying CDMA goes through walls on big buildings and GSM doesn't.

Just takes one fact to prove a theory false :)

[johnee]

What basically means I won't be owning an iPhone anywhere in the near future. Way to hang yourself Apple :rolleyes:

not true. apple will make money hand over fist on the phone AND contracts AND rebates from at&t. I guarantee it.

at&t will be the loser here, that's why verizon passed it up, cause they saw it would hurt them in the long run.

[DavidLeblond]

Still, an ugly/non-intuitive UI I can live with a lot easier than a lack of service.

Yeah... my contract is up next year but I may have to stick with them simply because I'm told Cingular isn't that hot in our area.

*sigh*

[mhouse]

Given there's no way in HELL that I'm going to use AT&T, I think the term is "resigned" and "hopeful". Hopefully Verizon's answer is better than what's out there.

With this news, the iPhone is officially dead to me. There's no way I'm signing up with AT&T, both from past corporate practices and from current network suckage.

IMHO, this is a major mis-step from Apple. I hope it is being mis-reported. But, barring that, I hope the iPhone at least inspires someone to build a better phone and offer it in conjunction with a less disgusting service provider.

What in the world did AT&T possibly do? I cannot, for the life of me, see any significant difference among the carriers.

[mick4394]

The assumed qualifier is "in my area". It is assumed in any and all conversations about cell phone service quality. It's why "least dropped calls" is meaningless, even if a respectable third party could give us a verdict.

I live in northern California. I have never, ever met a person happy with Cingular's coverage anywhere between the Golden Gate and Tahoe. As crappy as Verizon's interface-mangling is, their network works perfectly in at least 95% of the places I go, and passably well in all places I go. Cingular works barely-passably in the vast majority of places I go. How do I know? Because I pay attention to people when they lose their calls places, or are holding their phone out trying to "raise the bar" on the screen. They tend, by and large, to be Cingular customers (or RAZR owners ... yes, crappy phones get crappy reception too). And Cingular's market share in this area is significantly below Verizon's, so if it's a noticable majority of service failures that means that the percent of dissatisfied customers is huge relative to Verizon. Therefore, in my area, the AT&T service sucks. Period. Nothing is going to change about that until they buy more quality airwave bandwidth here (and who is going to sell that to them?) and start putting up towers in the slightly-remote areas.



Yes, all great marketing ideas start off with excluding all hope of reaching huge portions of the market for an artificial five-year period. You're right.

The point is this: just purely from a service perspective, in different regions and sub-regions of the country there are clear winners and there are clear losers. My understanding is that if you look at the company who bought the first low-band licenses in an area then you'll et a pretty good idea of the best service providers (assuming tower saturation, certain bands provide better reception) ... I'm too lazy to look up the details again, but suffice to say: hereabouts that was Verizon (well, the company that was bought by the company that merged into the company that was renamed Verizon). Elsewhere doubtless it was Cingular.

While the phone companies "war" with each other and two companies share the majority of the US market, that's highly deceptive. For many customers, there really is no choice. It's not that we're not in the market yet. It's that the alternative sucks where we live, and there's just no changing that.

Tying itself to a single provider means that Apple will not compete in any meaningful way in huge swathes of the country, because that single provider covers probably about 75% of the country well enough to be competitive and already dominates in about 50% of the country.

In any case, as I said, the iPhone becomes officially dead to me if this statement is true. I don't know what phone I'll be buying in five years. I might be thinking about my "next" phone (in about six months probably) or vaguely about the one after that (2.5 years) ... but five years out? That's three or four phone replacement cycles (for me I suppose I could stretch it into the third in about four and a half years)! Why even think about it? It's dead.

So, like I said, I'm hopeful LG really can come up with something to blow Apple's iPhone away, and resigned to the fact that I won't be using the iPhone, ever (assuming that whatever is called an iPhone in five years will bear little significant resemblance to the iPhone of today).

I couldn't have stated this better. Millions of us are in this exact situation.

Cingular, simply, is not an option in my area. I'll change my mind when I can consistently understand conversations with my GSM friends.

[slffl]

Why would I be such a long-term member of a Mac forum if I was anti-mac?

And I'm sorry, but although I agree that Apple is often at the top, there IS a cult-like following.. oftentimes MANY (myself included) excuse Apple's shortcomings "just cause".. we find ourselves excusing blatant mistakes or oversights, where we would normally accost another.

Take, for example, the QC problems of the MB, the RAM and HD prices via Apple (even moreso in the past), the lack of a fuller lineup, the cost of their displays, the cost versus specs of the mini, the Leopard delay (Vista, what?)... it goes on and on. Every company has these, but somehow Apple's followers (again, myself included), overlook these and just accept them - and just continue tying ourselves to our computers and looking for rumors about what's around the next corner.

It's cult-like.. and has ALWAYS been a factor of Apple.

Wow. Still, absolutely nothing to backup that most/all mac users are 'cult-like'.

Someone else mentioned unboxing pictures. Are you serious? People take pictures with their cars after they buy them all the time. Are Dodge drivers considered 'cult-like'.

There are 'fanboys' of every brand. Why is it that mac users are 'cult-like' while Sony or Windows users are just 'fanboys'. There's no good reason to use 'cult-like' other than that's what you heard through the media.

[jettredmont]

In my office building (over a mile long massive structure) Cingular (AT&T) is the ONLY company that gets service inside the walls (a full 5 bars). I had Verizon and I got nothing, T-Mobile gets nothing, Sprint gets nothing, you get my point.

Come up with a legitimate complaint - not just because the tower near your office is a long @ss way away.

IMHO, that's the most legitimate complaint. This guy isn't going to be changing offices to your building next week (most likely). If he can't get coverage where he lives, where he works, and a significant portion of the journey between, then that provider is not a valid alternative for him.

They say all politics is local: in the cell phone industry the #1 rule is that all service is local. Either you get a signal or you don't. It doesn't matter that someone in Pennsylvania gets a great signal.

Note that given your anecdote I'd bet that Cingular has repeaters inside the building. "Five bars" through a mile of concrete walls ... improbable to occur naturally. Of course, "five bars" is a rather meaningless indicator too ...

[docpsycho]

Ain't drinking this cool aid.

ANd for all you newbbage types... I've been on apple products when Super Steve was in the house. Wozinator ][+ 48k. all you is latecoming hacks

[xfiftyfour]

Wow. Still, absolutely nothing to backup that most/all mac users are 'cult-like'.

Someone else mentioned unboxing pictures. Are you serious? People take pictures with their cars after they buy them all the time. Are Dodge drivers considered 'cult-like'.

There are 'fanboys' of every brand. Why is it that mac users are 'cult-like' while Sony or Windows users are just 'fanboys'. There's no good reason to use 'cult-like' other than that's what you heard through the media.
1. Please show me where I said that "most/all mac users are 'cult-like'. Oh, wait.. I didn't. I said there is a cult-like following - which there is.

2. Taking pictures WITH an item, and having unboxing ceremonies OF that item are two very different things. I take pictures of myself and my friends sitting on my couch, but that's very different from taking pictures of my latest Apple gadget coming out of every small detail of plastic from 20 different angles. But um.. good counter argument? :rolleyes:

Ain't drinking this cool aid.

ANd for all you newbbage types... I've been on apple products when Super Steve was in the house. Wozinator ][+ 48k. all you is latecoming hacks
Little early to be hittin the shots, ain't it? ;) :p

[bkvideography]

The "iPhone killers" will be rolling out for years to come. Just like the "iPod killers." Some might even be as thin and light as the iPhone (compared to the usual bricklike smartphones) but they won't have Apple ease-of-use, iTunes integration, or multitouch.

And they won't have Apple's mindshare. Every time one of them comes out, the articles and reviews will also mention iPhone. Free press for Apple every time a competitor is mentioned! Must be nice :)

I do want to see 3G speeds come to iPhone--and Apple has already announced that this is coming. I don't so much care about CDMA specifically though.

bingo.

[johnee]

The argument as presented was that GSM doesn't go through walls and CDMA does. I got 4 bars the second I walked outside my office building when I had Verizon. With Cingular I ALWAYS get 5 bars. I was just pointing out the fallacy involved in saying CDMA goes through walls on big buildings and GSM doesn't.

Just takes one fact to prove a theory false :)

i find that hard to believe as most big buildings have steel all throughout the building shell which stops most signals the farther in you get. 4 bars on verizon is indicative of a weak signal (they show a relatively high signal, but in fact it's actually much weaker) where as the att is a stronger signal cause it's closer. you might also have a picocell in/on your building

[MovieCutter]

Little early to be hittin the shots, ain't it? ;) :p

Damn girl...you're vicious today...;) :cool:

[bigmc6000]

i find that hard to believe as most big buildings have steel all throughout the building shell which stops most signals the farther in you get. 4 bars on verizon is indicative of a weak signal (they show a relatively high signal, but in fact it's actually much weaker) where as the att is a stronger signal cause it's closer. you might also have a picocell in/on your building

It's the same experience for all of my co-workers. I'm simply pointing out the CDMA vs GSM has absolutely NOTHING to do with your signal inside an office building... It's anecdotal at best.

[jettredmont]

What in the world did AT&T possibly do? I cannot, for the life of me, see any significant difference among the carriers.

Vastly off-topic here, but since you asked ... essentially one of their call-center call reps screwed over a family member by offering a deal which they could not stand behind (specifically "covering" the early-termination penalties on an existing ISP for switching to AT&T internet and long distance), and they never would compensate us in the least (the family member ended up having to pay a termination fee to both the old provider and AT&T, in addition to losing the grandfathered-in awesome long distance rates; the best "deal" we could get was that they were "forgiven" the cost of service during the time we were trying to get this cleared up).

We had the specific assurances written down, the caller's name, time and date; they claim there never was anyone of that name working at their call center and refused to identify who exactly put the "deal" through. Essentially, they stonewalled from the call center manager level. Over a friggin single customer contract! Extremely frustrating, highly time-consuming, cost us several hundred dollars (but not enough to go to court over), and unfortunately the worst our family can deal back at them is never, ever being AT&T customers. Cingular would have been fine to work with if they could have fixed the local service issues. AT&T is persona non grata in our house.

So now you know. IMHO, AT&T and anyone who intends to profit from that name is scum.

[xfiftyfour]

Damn girl...you're vicious today...;) :cool:
You love it. ;)

[MovieCutter]

You love it. ;)

you have no idea :cool:

[cubbie5150]

Ugh... I've been w/ Cingular for 2 years, and locally at least, their network has gotten worse over time (call quality & building penetration suck, indicating everything is on the 1900 band as opposed to 850). As far as people being concerned about lack of 3G in the iPhone, having 3G capability will only matter for people in certain parts of the country as 3G penetration has been lacking if my understanding is correct (forgive me if I'm wrong; I just don't have the time to keep up w/ Cingular's issues anymore). Only reason I'm still w/ Cingular is b/c I hate Verizon even more!!

[kingtj]

Yeah... I have to agree there. I assumed Apple would spring a CDMA version of the iPhone on us after the first year or so, really. Then they could say "Well, the GSM version is *still* exclusive to Cingular/AT&T just like we promised at the start!" and still offer something other carriers could use. But I guess not.

I am *very* happy I dumped Verizon last year and switched to US Cellular. It cuts my phone bills literally in HALF, even though I talk on it much more than I used to with Verizon. (You just can't beat FREE incoming calls, and unlimited usage of the built-in phone browser for $9.95 a month.)

Verizon has shown time and time again that they really don't understand the typical home or small business customer. They won't offer rate plans that allow for high monthly usage. (If you exceed the 1200 minutes per month or whatever their biggest plan is, you're still stuck paying somewhere around 10 cents per minute for each one that goes over!) They charge some of the highest rates in the industry for downloading data on their network too. They have an above-average selection of phones to choose from - but not often much support when you have problems with them down the road. (I had a couple of "smartphones" with Verizon before, and was treated like a 2nd. class citizen all the time. Their stores didn't ever have accessories in stock for them. They couldn't swap broken phones in-store... Had to mail them off all the time. Not much technical knowledge on them either. Not good all around.)

It's really no loss that THEY don't have the iPhone. They'd screw it up anyway.


No CDMA version for 5 years? That pretty much discounts me getting an iPhone for 5 years. GSM is garbage in this country, anyone living in a city will tell you that. Ya know, areas with buildings where the GSM reception drops my an order of magnitude when you step inside? Yeah.

[bigjohn]

Ask yourselves who wants a Razr - 1.5 years later...

[MagicUK]

Okay, I have donned the FLAME proof jacket for this one, but here goes.

On the plus side, and based on a conversation I had today (so not my original thought but I do agree with it), how many other phones have attracted this much attention prior to launch. Forget the politics for a moment and consider the big players. They announce, release, and sell but name another phone where people are knocking at the door in the same way.

On the flip side, and i'll follow my legal training on this one (I might not believe in what you say, but i'll defend to the death your right to say it) there is a world outside of the US. Europe and Asia are huge markets and in my opinion where :apple: need to do the most work. America may fall in love with the iPhone, but the iPhone like most products needs volume to suceed.

European customers et al have different views and values compared to our US counterparts but wil, once again in my opinion, make or break the iPhone.

You need to understand that we are not aliens, we just have different needs, requirements, and values. We will not sign up to a 2 year contract, we prefer to own rather than rent, and the personal rights we demand are a lot higher.

All that said I can't wait to see it, but I may well hang on (as I did with the iPod) but it does look Gooooooooooood!

[KingofAwesome]

Would this prevent Apple from making a 3G version for European market? They said it would be available here in Q4 but an Iphone without 3G wouldn't make it far here.

They have an exclusive arrangement in the US. Apple has no such limitations with carriers in other countries. You'll be safe.

I have to agree... on one hand, I'm upset that the iPhone isn't going to be on Verizon's network, since they have an amazingly reliable and fast network; yet I'm totally relieved that the iPhone's not going with Verizon since they feel the need to cripple everything that comes with a phone... they disable bluetooth unless you pay for it, their menus are horrible, everything has that horrible red color scheme... basically it slows down every phone they sell...

I'm excited to see how Apple and AT&T work together... I'm hoping there won't be any extraneous AT&T branding on the iPhone. Imagine a phone sold the same way it was produced... it may actually work fast and efficiently!

I totally agree with you... I'm leaving Verizon ASAP because I can't actually do anything with the pictures I took on my cameraphone. They've disabled so many features that the pictures are stuck on the camera. I've spoken to several tech support people about this and they've all said I'm stuck. I'd strongly recommend everyone staying away from getting a phone with a camera through Verizon.

The copy products never succeed, never have never will. The phone manufacturers had 10+ years to develop something as attractive as the iPhone, but they were too clueless to get it. Instead they flooded the market by just squeezing out one mediocre device after the other sporting only marginal improvements. After I saw the Keynote by Jobs I can't look at other phones the same way again, they all look and feel like children's toys to me.

Now let's be fair here, there have been a lot of changes in the past ten years of cell phones. Smaller sizes, polyphonic ringtones, caller ID, text messaging, better network coverage, number portability, color screens, pictures, video, email, syncing with computers, corporate network capabilities (such as Exchange support), instant messaging, java, bluetooth technology (headsets as well as syncing)... and I'm probably missing some other improvements over the past ten years. The iPhone may very well be superior to any other phone out there right now, but that doesn't mean the industry hasn't dramatically improved in the past ten years.

[cloudnine]

:rolleyes: You are kidding right? When you have people posting pictures of unboxing ceremonies....Seriously dude. Dense as a neutron star.

nerd.

[tristan]

Is this exclusivity good business strategy? What exactly is Apple getting by only selling to one cell phone company for five years? I don't see the benefit.

Also, they picked the wrong company. AT&T is hated, and this hatred runs much deeper than Apple/Microsoft. I'm not talking about their bad cell phone service five years ago - I'm talking about an arrogant, aggressive company in the early 1990s that treated the Internet and all of the associated technology like it was a joke.

We still remember, and as far as I know, there hasn't been an apology.

[jettredmont]

The argument as presented was that GSM doesn't go through walls and CDMA does. I got 4 bars the second I walked outside my office building when I had Verizon. With Cingular I ALWAYS get 5 bars. I was just pointing out the fallacy involved in saying CDMA goes through walls on big buildings and GSM doesn't.

Just takes one fact to prove a theory false :)

So far as I understand, there's nothing in GSM or CDMA which would make either one more likely to transmit through walls. It's all about the strength of the signal and the frequency being used locally in your area (meaning, which company got the rights to the "good" frequencies where you are). So, it is expected that in one place, a concrete building would show good GSM coverage and no CDMA coverage, and in another area an identical building would show good CDMA and no GSM.

[jhedges3]

No CDMA version for 5 years? That pretty much discounts me getting an iPhone for 5 years. GSM is garbage in this country, anyone living in a city will tell you that. Ya know, areas with buildings where the GSM reception drops my an order of magnitude when you step inside? Yeah.

I couldn't agree more. I had a nice phone and GSM here in New York for one year. Never in all my years with CDMA have a had to stand by windows, etc. I couldn't stand it and cursed the phone and longed to have my CDMA back.

The data support this.

I think the five year is a mistake. Apple, interface, wifi, I'm pretty sure that the sum of those factors does not outweigh the overall suckage that accompanies GSM.

Guess I'll by my time by staying with VZ month to month, hopefully on something new from RIM. If an iPhone with 3G appears at some point and it seems worth it I'll make the move.

It's like asking me whether I'd rather have a fifth floor walk-up with a view of the neighboring brick wall in Alphabet City (VZ) or whether I'd rather have one with a few more square feet, an elevator, and a crew of upstanding, hard-working, Spanish-speaking doormen in Long Island City (AT&T, no offense to those who call the LIC home).

[inkswamp]

Given Apple's cultlike following, however, Verizon isn't taking any chances.

It is unFREAKIN-believable to me that USA Today would let something like that slide through in an article. I studied journalism in college and our prof used to bring in USA Today from time-to-time as a "what not to do" example for the class. Their standards have always been pretty low but this is hard to believe.

First off, Apple doesn't have a "cultlike" following any more than Microsoft or Linux or Sony or Nintendo or any other company or OS does. I'd like to see some studies on the subject before USA Today starts kicking around vaguely insulting phrases like that. The assumption is that all Apple products succeed because of its cult. They need only look at the Cube and the Pippin and a variety of other products left by the side of the road to die to see that the asumption is wrong. When Apple screws up, nobody buys.

Secondly, what the writer is probably refering to anyway is the sales of the iPod. Given that the iPod dominates its market so completely, it's a little hard to say that's just the result of a cult following. Fanboys alone don't get you to +70% of the market.

F___ USA Today! It's a worthless, badly edited rag anyway. Always has been and clearly always will be. :mad:

[elppa]

They need only look at the Cube… When Apple screws up, nobody buys.

Actually I believe the cube still made Apple money. Just not as much as they were expected to make. It was only unsuccessful relative to the success of other products at the time.

[gugy]

man, I am in a conundrum,
I have Verizon service and it's Ok, but I know where I live Cingular(AT&T) is sucks.
So is either I go with a suck service and get the iPhone or wait for the 6G iPod and stays with Verizon and have a Ok reception and move on.

Hard decision!:(

[johnpaul191]

Maybe they can put little feet on the bottom of the phone so that it can stand upright, and it become the missing <$1000 tower in Apple's Mac line up.:rolleyes:

I really hope that it does live up to the hype about it being easy to use to MAKE CALLS -- not full of gadgets and useless crap that I'll never use.

um, if that's all you need/want then i would not buy one. there have been persistent rumors that eventually there will be an iPhone Nano or something. obviously the first one will be the flagship model, but maybe down the road there will be a model closer to a standard phone.

[Cooknn]

I'm with T-Mobile so I'll just sit and wait for the Euro release and hope they get it. And hope it works on the US network :o

[nxent]

It is unFREAKIN-believable to me that USA
First off, Apple doesn't have a "cultlike" following any more than Microsoft or Linux or Sony or Nintendo or any other company or OS does.
F___ USA Today! It's a worthless, badly edited rag anyway. Always has been and clearly always will be. :mad:

eh, i'd have to disagree,, you bad mouth microsoft or sony at a compusa and most people will agree, you badmouth linux some folks will say 'eh,,,in your opinion...', you bad mouth apple in an apple store, you're more likely to get your throat slit. ok, maybe not quite, but you get the point. having a 'cultlike' following isn't necessarily bad, it just means that customers look beyond the product and agree with the company's design/product philosophy.

[twoodcc]

So, anyone scared? :D

i'm not. i don't like verizon anyway. looking forward to getting me an iPhone

[agreenster]

I can't help but wonder if this is a case of counting chickens before they hatch....

What if, after all this hype, the iPhone sucks?

[/dev/toaster]

:eek:

And I thought our $200 deposit sucked.

I got screwed over by an ex-girlfriend. Been trying to repair my credit for a few years now.

[/dev/toaster]

not true. apple will make money hand over fist on the phone AND contracts AND rebates from at&t. I guarantee it.

at&t will be the loser here, that's why verizon passed it up, cause they saw it would hurt them in the long run.

I disagree. AT&T will be making a **** ton of cash off of this deal. Look at how many people are going to be switching from other carriers ?

[ravenvii]

I can't help but wonder if this is a case of counting chickens before they hatch....

What if, after all this hype, the iPhone sucks?

Exactly my thoughts.

Only time will tell, though.

[inkswamp]

eh, i'd have to disagree,, you bad mouth microsoft or sony at a compusa and most people will agree, you badmouth linux some folks will say 'eh,,,in your opinion...', you bad mouth apple in an apple store, you're more likely to get your throat slit. ok, maybe not quite, but you get the point. having a 'cultlike' following isn't necessarily bad, it just means that customers look beyond the product and agree with the company's design/product philosophy.

Go to Digg sometime, pop in to the MS or Linux section and post something negative and test your theory out. You'll get flamed out of existence. There are plenty of fanboys/cultists on all sides (in fact, by sheer force of numbers it stands to reason that the MS fanboys outnumber the Mac fanboys by a wide margin.) So why doesn't USA Today speak about MS customers in terms of "Microsoft's cultlike following?"

I'm not saying that Apple doesn't have its "cult followers," so to speak. What I object to is invoking it as a preemptive excuse for why the iPhone will do well. I also don't like seeing USA Today push that old Mac user stereotype. Using a phrase like that in a news article is insulting to the reader and a form of editorializing--both very bad journalism.

[killmoms]

I've been with Verizon for 3 and a half years. I've never been dissatisfied with the service I've gotten.

I will be switching to AT&T for the iPhone the day it's released. :D

[Object-X]

An iPhone killer like all those iPod killers, right? Ya, right. :rolleyes:

[sikkinixx]

No CDMA? :( well there goes my hopes of getting on in the next 3 years.

[daschor]

I have to say, the iPhone looks like a superb piece of hardware. If it were not exclusive on a crusty GSM network, I would be likely to consider a purchase. However, having experienced the power of CDMA, I cannot fathom why Steve would have gone with AT&T. I'm with Verizon for data and voice, and would have loved to add an iPhone to my arsenal.

On the other hand, I see no restrictions in terms of WiMax mentioned. Perhaps Sprint will get a WiMax edition of the iPhone once their network is sufficiently developed? I know... wishful thinking.

An iPhone without 3G speed is just a pretty iPod that makes phone calls. With 3G it could be the paradigm shifter.

Until then, I'll keep lugging around the ol' PowerBook with my EVDO card.

:apple:

[Digital Skunk]

Given there's no way in HELL that I'm going to use AT&T, I think the term is "resigned" and "hopeful". Hopefully Verizon's answer is better than what's out there.

With this news, the iPhone is officially dead to me. There's no way I'm signing up with AT&T, both from past corporate practices and from current network suckage.

IMHO, this is a major mis-step from Apple. I hope it is being mis-reported. But, barring that, I hope the iPhone at least inspires someone to build a better phone and offer it in conjunction with a less disgusting service provider.

AMEN BROTHER... I can so do without AT&T so the iPhone can shove it too. Why would I want to switch from an moderately okay cell phone company with good phones to a crappy company with a reasonably great phone?

[dante@sisna.com]

I renewed my two years with Cingular in Feburary after realizing that the iPhone was delayed and I have to say that I have been VERY impressed with the New Cingular ATT.

Their customer service is Greatly improved and their service gets better everyday.

Now when I can ditch this Pearl for an iPhone, I should be really satisfied.

Just here to tell all of you worried about cingular that I have noticed a significant improvement over the past 7 months. And I have had plans with ALL carriers over the past 15 years.

Dante

[Digital Skunk]

I have to say, the iPhone looks like a superb piece of hardware. If it were not exclusive on a crusty GSM network, I would be likely to consider a purchase. However, having experienced the power of CDMA, I cannot fathom why Steve would have gone with AT&T. I'm with Verizon for data and voice, and would have loved to add an iPhone to my arsenal.

On the other hand, I see no restrictions in terms of WiMax mentioned. Perhaps Sprint will get a WiMax edition of the iPhone once their network is sufficiently developed? I know... wishful thinking.

An iPhone without 3G speed is just a pretty iPod that makes phone calls. With 3G it could be the paradigm shifter.

Until then, I'll keep lugging around the ol' PowerBook with my EVDO card.

:apple:

I just wish that they port it over to the Sprint network before I get that new Treo 755p with all the fixin's...

Oh wait... too late, sorry Apple. If you made the phone for everyone instead of just those that suffer with Cingular you would have had my money. Can't wait for Dell to buy Palm so they can fix that ancient PalmOS

[Digital Skunk]

I renewed my two years with Cingular in Feburary after realizing that the iPhone was delayed and I have to say that I have been VERY impressed with the New Cingular ATT.

Their customer service is Greatly improved and their service gets better everyday.

Now when I can ditch this Pearl for an iPhone, I should be really satisfied.

Just here to tell all of you worried about cingular that I have noticed a significant improvement over the past 7 months. And I have had plans with ALL carriers over the past 15 years.

Dante

You are probably right. Sprint has been good to me too. As the articles says, I am not going to pay the switching costs for a company that is on par with Sprint, and since the Sprint network offers me a bit more on the wireless end than Cingular it's just not worth it. If Cingular caught me when I bought my first phone 2 years ago then we would have something, but their initial payment was way over my budget, so Sprint got my money, and I got my first crappy phone from them.

[CalBoy]

I disagree. AT&T will be making a **** ton of cash off of this deal. Look at how many people are going to be switching from other carriers ?

That's only for the short term, while Verizon attempts to launch its answer to the iPhone. Once they do, not as many customers will switch carriers, esspecially if they're already in a good contract. I think that ATT will make most of its money from people who upgrade to the iPhone. Someone like me, who is on the fence about the iPhone, might upgrade after a year or so. Right now, I have no PDA-type plan, but that is the level of service you have to buy with the iPhone. For ATT, that's $50 more per month from a customer like me. I think that's where they are going to make more money, by getting more people to buy the high-date volume plans.

[Rot'nApple]

seriously, at $500, i don't see this being a very big deal. i'm glad verizon passed on apple. apple is pain to work with.

no matter what happens, at&t will get screwed in the deal and apple will get all the money.

The price tag won't effect the iPhone's sales as much as you think.

As far as AT&T getting screwed, don't care... Apple getting all the money is fine by me... If nothing unexpected comes along before the iPhone launch, I'm hoping to see my shares of Apple increase in value by a hundred bucks a share "profit" not including the purchase price:cool: !

[milhous]

several points worth noting:

1. since apple and at&t are now connected at the hip, at&t knows that this is a very big external motivator for them to deploy as many towers as possible and to cover any remaining large coverage gaps. since the iphone will first achieve critical mass in the big cities (new york, chicago, la, etc), i'm sure they've been working behind the scenes since steve's keynote to get the network optimized and to increase capacity where need be.

at&t simply cannot afford inaction, especially when you have a vip customer like apple. so in a sense, at&t customers now have a powerful advocate that can put the necessary pressure on at&t to keep the network running smoothly and to provide a great network experience, and neither company can afford to have the iphone fail. it could definitely have a rough start and i'm sure they'll be bugs along the way. anything else, however, would be unacceptable. execution will be critical here.

2. it's been reported that apple originally approached verizon wireless (vzw) for the iphone deal (disclaimer: i have vzw now and have for many years when i originally switched away from then at&t wireless services before their transition to GSM), and it makes sense because, like steve said in the keynote, the killer app on a mobile phone is making calls. i've personally had very good service with vzw (at least in the mid-atlantic region where i live), despite the fact that their phones aren't that inspiring and they're plans are on the upper end of the scale.

HOWEVER, vzw does have an achilles' heel and an overall corporate image problem. for starters, the phones are very uninspiring, and their featureset and form factor are put to shame compared to GSM handsets. their biggest problem is that, similarly to apple where they currently are unsure as to whether or not they want to open up the iPhone to 3rd party development, vzw tries very hard to control the ENTIRE experience on their phones.

vzw is no friend to consumers as they have a policy of crippling the bluetooth functionality (purportedly at the request of developers who create software for their get-it-now service) solution whoon their phones and also prevent (including sprint too?) the use of the 3rd party applications such as google maps and gmail, which are based on the mobile java platform.

3. as i said earlier, i've been a vzw customer for a long time (5+ years), and have been finally started thinking about getting a smartphone with a QWERTY keyboard like a blackberry or nokia e62. however the iphone fulfills all of my mobile needs and would mean that i'd be able to carry one less thing in my pocket (a standalone ipod). i'm definitely getting an iphone and will be overlapping contracts as I have to wait until august to end my vzw service.

4. any lookalikes or copycats made that even try to emulate the iphone and they'll get slammed with a lawsuit. at the keynote, steve said there was 200 patents pending on the iphone. i'd be interested to see if their competitors can actually one-up on the iphone.

i'm looking forward to the iphone!

[Rot'nApple]

Vastly off-topic here, but since you asked ... essentially one of their call-center call reps screwed over a family member by offering a deal which they could not stand behind (specifically "covering" the early-termination penalties on an existing ISP for switching to AT&T internet and long distance), and they never would compensate us in the least (the family member ended up having to pay a termination fee to both the old provider and AT&T, in addition to losing the grandfathered-in awesome long distance rates; the best "deal" we could get was that they were "forgiven" the cost of service during the time we were trying to get this cleared up).

We had the specific assurances written down, the caller's name, time and date; they claim there never was anyone of that name working at their call center and refused to identify who exactly put the "deal" through. Essentially, they stonewalled from the call center manager level. Over a friggin single customer contract! Extremely frustrating, highly time-consuming, cost us several hundred dollars (but not enough to go to court over), and unfortunately the worst our family can deal back at them is never, ever being AT&T customers. Cingular would have been fine to work with if they could have fixed the local service issues. AT&T is persona non grata in our house.

So now you know. IMHO, AT&T and anyone who intends to profit from that name is scum.

Not unusual at all. Your pissed at AT&T, there's this guy pissed at Verizon (see below), a friend of mine is pissed with Alltel and Alltel lost them as a "valued" customer they could have had for the past eight years and the world just keeps on spinnin!

Go to YouTube and search for "Verizon Math" where Verizon's associates didn't know the difference between "cents" and "dollars" and were adament about the customer "owing" $71.786 versus the customer's math coming out to be .71786¢... $71 plus Bucks vs. .71¢ Cents - BIG DIFF, however, there is no big diff in that in any circumstance that will greatly favor you versus the wireless carrier, you are going to get screwed no matter who your carrier is. Why should the carrier mind, whopping termination fees, and they may "lose" you because you are pissed at them and you go to wireless "carrier A", while a pissed off "carrier A" patron is switching and is replacing "YOU" as a lost customer. Just keep them checks paying for wireless service a coming each month. Because the wireless carriers philosphy is 'A Fool and His Money Are Soon Parted"!:eek:

[Digital Skunk]

vzw is no friend to consumers as they have a policy of crippling the bluetooth functionality (purportedly at the request of developers who create software for their get-it-now service) solution whoon their phones and also prevent (including sprint too?) the use of the 3rd party applications such as google maps and gmail, which are based on the mobile java platform.i'm looking forward to the iphone!

My girlfriend can get google maps on her Treo so I am not sure if Sprint cripples that feature. She can access any site on the web so far.

I am looking forward to the iPhone as well, too bad its going to be Rev 1 of the iPhone Pro or whatever they come out with in 5 years.:(

[Rot'nApple]

at the keynote, steve said there was 200 patents pending on the iphone. i'd be interested to see if their competitors can actually one-up on the iphone.

Keyword here is PENDING!

Any competitor can emulate the same technology and backdating seems to be all the rage in the corporate world with regards to stock, why not backdate this emulated technology and say they came with it first and Apple is copying them!:D

Before anyone busts a gut, this post must be read with the sarcasm it was written in!:rolleyes:

[Rocketman]

No CDMA version for 5 years? That pretty much discounts me getting an iPhone for 5 years. GSM is garbage in this country, anyone living in a city will tell you that. Ya know, areas with buildings where the GSM reception drops my an order of magnitude when you step inside? Yeah.

So should Apple form a separate and unaffiliated company to do CDMA? Verizon gave them the finger.

Who is going to deploy wimax nationwide?

Rocketman

[Rocketman]

My brother swears by Verizon (Southern California) and hates with a passion Cingular (actual first hand experience).

I was an ATT analog cellular roaming customer nationwide and frankly it was better on that basis than other carriers.

So.

I say cellular satisfaction is regional. I admit to being a bit worried Cingular/ATT is hated in suburban LA, CA.

Rocketman

[SiliconAddict]

What in the world did AT&T possibly do? I cannot, for the life of me, see any significant difference among the carriers.

Then you aren't looking hard enough. All jokes aside I was on Crapular for a year in '04 when I was with Computer Science Corp. It was the worse expierence I've had ever from a carrier. Crappy customer service. Crappy games with my bill. Crappy signal strength where ever I would go. (When I'm on the phone at least 20 times a day (Not an exaggeration.) within a 30 mile radius around the MN Twin Cities and I get at least 2-3 drops a day....Crap. Pure and simple.
Then there is the office that I support. The company's carrier of choice is Crapular. I've been doing some random polling, since I've worked there 7 years I can ask people these questions while I work on their system.
The best response I've received so far after about 2 dozen inquiries is "meh. Its free." Thats about it. Most don't like them for various reasons, and I think it falls back into the same reason as MS is still being used. Its not pissing them off enough to really switch to a different carrier. Its "good enough" and its also mandated by corp so what are ya going to do?

You couldn't pay me to go back to those people. My company phone is Sprint. My personal phone is T-Mobile and I've had nothing but good luck with them. (Them being T-Mobile.) Sprint has been meh. Pretty good service...customer support has been "OK".

iPhone or no iPhone, I will NEVER go back to Crapular.

[SiliconAddict]

First off, Apple doesn't have a "cultlike" following any more than Microsoft or Linux or Sony or Nintendo or any other company or OS does. I'd like to see some studies on the subject before USA Today starts kicking around vaguely insulting phrases like that. The assumption is that all Apple products succeed because of its cult. They need only look at the Cube and the Pippin and a variety of other products left by the side of the road to die to see that the asumption is wrong. When Apple screws up, nobody buys.

Yah right. When was the last time you saw people who use Windows go rapid over what was not released at WINHEC? How many rumor\news sites are there dedicated to Apple vs. MS sites? Do sites routinely crash when MS has a major event? Do people stay up all night getting ready for a Dell Keynote?

Sorry inkswamp. While USA Today may have worded it poorly. The meaning was spot on.

An iPhone killer like all those iPod killers, right? Ya, right. :rolleyes:

Difference 1: The iPod was already entrenched when everyone else woke up.
Difference 2: You don't need to spend $500 and sign a 2 year contract to get an iPod.
Difference 3: The iPod is not a 1st gen device. (We know how reliable Apple's first gen devices are.
Difference 4: There are already plenty of similar devices on the drawing boards that will be out before the end of the year. Some which were announced before the iPhone even.
Difference 5: $500\$600 vs. $80-$350

The price tag won't effect the iPhone's sales as much as you think.


Yes I'm certain Sony said the same thing about the PS3. :P

[gugy]

My brother swears by Verizon (Southern California) and hates with a passion Cingular (actual first hand experience).

I was an ATT analog cellular roaming customer nationwide and frankly it was better on that basis than other carriers.

So.

I say cellular satisfaction is regional. I admit to being a bit worried Cingular/ATT is hated in suburban LA, CA.

Rocketman

I am in the same bost as your brother. I hate Cingular I had then 6 years ago under Pacific Bell. That's the major obstacle for me in getting an iPhone. I guess I'll wait for the iPod 6g in order to keep my Verizon (at least is OK reception). Too bad. I wish I could unlock the iPhone and use Verizon, but because of CDMA, I think I am out of luck.:(

[Ouindo]

Interesting happening at work today. I work for a MAJOR financial institution and during a Town Hall managers' meeting with one of the top "Brand" (Marketing) execs the discussion turned to product identity and the dude said something along the lines of "nobody knew they wanted or needed an iPod until Apple made it!" Then he said " how many of you out there are standing in line waiting for the iPhone; gotta have it, gotta have it." A lot of hands went up including mine.:p

[pimentoLoaf]

The only device that remotely looks like the iPhone is Palm's T|X (http://www.palm.com/us/products/handhelds/tx/?creativeID=LMFB|tungsten_tx_free_keyboard), which alas, currently doesn't have a phone in it. If it were to be modified to have one...

[Shanesan]

What does "CDMA" mean? Does that mean it won't be sold without a new contract?

If thats the case, screw Apple and their overpriced phone. :)

[Mantronix]

Horrible horrible news for me if this is true. I had so much bad experience with Cingular not even a free iPhone would make me switch back to them.

[JNB]

Difference 1: The iPod was already entrenched when everyone else woke up.
Difference 2: You don't need to spend $500 and sign a 2 year contract to get an iPod.
Difference 3: The iPod is not a 1st gen device. (We know how reliable Apple's first gen devices are.
Difference 4: There are already plenty of similar devices on the drawing boards that will be out before the end of the year. Some which were announced before the iPhone even.
Difference 5: $500\$600 vs. $80-$350

1. The iPod was about the 20th or 50th MP3 player when it hit the market. Hardly "entrenched." It was decidedly an uphill battle, in a less well-defined market, as well.

2. Correct, but the iPod wasn't a cell phone, either, which has a history in the US of requiring contracts. So, the point being?

3. The iPod was a 1st Gen device when introduced. 5 years later, we've have four more generations and four different models. Most of Apple's 1st gen devices are perfectly robust & reliable. It's only the gaffes we remember. Once again, the point?

4. See #1. "On the drawing board" is even less of an argument than debating a device that has not seen the (public) light of day. And, as you note, while "they" may have been announced prior, the iPhone will be in hands (and hearts) sooner.

5. Quick - someone name the price of the iPod (in today's dollars) when introduced...

I'm not busting your chops (really, I'm not!), but the arguments are a shade, well, weak, and deserve a response. Appy Polly Loggys for being a tad snarky. :)

[psycoswimmer]

5. Quick - someone name the price of the iPod (in today's dollars) when introduced...


Me, me! $399 - $499!


Sorry, I had to. :p

[viperguy]

Nokia Aeon for Verizon, maybe? :p

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62425592@N00/281804882/

[milhous]

Nokia Aeon for Verizon, maybe? :p

http://www.flickr.com/photos/62425592@N00/281804882/

Except I heard last year that Nokia was exiting the CDMA business.

http://www.rimweb.in/forums/index.php?showtopic=6841

[Roller]

AppleT&T has one thing going for it that the others don't: truly seamless integration with the desktop. Others will no doubt copy the iPhone's form and functions, but they won't be able to achieve the same level of integration.

But that's not enough: If the iPhone isn't up to par, it won't get far. I don't care what the iPhone does if it can't make reliable calls. That's why I stick with Verizon, despite their pricey plans and poor customer service (I've had reps make contradictory offers, not return calls, etc.)

[ravenvii]

What does "CDMA" mean? Does that mean it won't be sold without a new contract?

If thats the case, screw Apple and their overpriced phone. :)

It's a cellular protocol used by Verizon. Cingular, T-Mobile and much of the world uses the GSM/3G/EDGE mess of a protocol.

[NoCleverSNForMe]

That's why I stick with Verizon, despite their pricey plans and poor customer service (I've had reps make contradictory offers, not return calls, etc.)

Their pricey plans and poor customer service are what drove me away from Verizon. Sure, now that I'm with AT&T, I don't get coverage EVERYWHERE like I used to, but I live with it. Because to me, I'd rather have my money going to a company that actually gives a **** about me rather than a company that says "**** you".

You have two restaurants.

Restaurant #1 has a 30-minute wait time to get a table, a waiter who's condescending, tables that are a pain to sit in, a menu that's barely legible, another 30 minutes to wait for drinks, and an additional 20 minutes for food.

Restaurant #2 takes reservations and is extremely kind. The waiter greets you with a smile on his face and seats you in comfortable seats. The menu is descriptive and the waiter is knowledgeable. You get your drinks in under 5 minutes, and your food in under 15 minutes.

Who had the better food?

Restaurant #1 was better---but customers like me appreciate good service and are going to pass Restaurant #1 and visit Restaurant #2 again.

That's how I feel about Verizon vs. AT&T.

Rep #1: "Oh, Treos don't work on Macs. We don't support them. Maybe you should switch!"

Rep #2 (Tech Support Department): "Didn't someone tell you? Macs don't work with 99% of all the peripherals out there, like this phone. As a matter of fact, none of the phones we have work with Macs."

They told me this last year. I immediately switched to Cingular who told me outright: "Yeah, we support Macs. But not every one of our reps is trained to work with them. Just ask for one, there's always one on duty. There will always be one and they will help you out."

Unfortunately, not everyone is as educated on the Mac. Verizon said the same things to some of my colleagues at work, my colleagues who I had worked so hard on switching to Mac...and they switched back to PC thinking they had no way of syncing a Palm OS, BlackBerry, or Windows Mobile device to their Macs.

Damn Verizon for not training their representatives.

[NoCleverSNForMe]

CDMA is a cellular protocol used by Verizon.

Don't leave out Sprint! :D

[ClimbingTheLog]

GSM is garbage in this country, anyone living in a city will tell you that. Ya know, areas with buildings where the GSM reception drops my an order of magnitude when you step inside?

Or in the mountains - GSM sucks there too... maybe skyscrapers are just artificial mountains to the GSM signal path. If you live on the plains of Kansas it's quite good. Except when your tower gets killed by a tornado.

Would this prevent Apple from making a 3G version for European market? They said it would be available here in Q4 but an Iphone without 3G wouldn't make it far here.

Apple isn't doing 3G here because AT&T is insisting on selling their own music service on all of its 3G phones. Apple only wants iTunes, so they stay with 2.5G.

So far as I understand, there's nothing in GSM or CDMA which would make either one more likely to transmit through walls.

CDMA deals better with multipath reflections, which you'll get indoors.

First off, Apple doesn't have a "cultlike" following any more than Microsoft or Linux or Sony or Nintendo or any other company or OS does.

Don't get angry, friend - he's just a Microsoft shiner who's ticked at the way Apple is succeeding. He may have even be a 'consultant' for them, who knows?.

Actually I believe the cube still made Apple money. Just not as much as they were expected to make. It was only unsuccessful relative to the success of other products at the time.

Cube 2.0 (mini) was pretty successful. The Cube was dumb next to a CRT and at the time a CRT was the only thing affordable.

Can't wait for Dell to buy Palm so they can fix that ancient PalmOS

Put down the crackpipe, Skunker. Dell would destroy any value in Palm. Besides, the PalmOS on Linux phone (Quadro?) will be out by the end of this year. I'll be in line for it (Cingular doesn't even write contracts in this state). Funny, this will be the first Apple product I'll never use.

What does "CDMA" mean? Does that mean it won't be sold without a new contract?

If thats the case, screw Apple and their overpriced phone.

Dude, take a chill pill (http://www.google.com/search?q=cdma).

[GanleyBurger]

WHAT?????:eek:

FIVE YEARS????

This is like Apple telling us that we (Verizon customers) have to stick with a core 2 duo machine for five years.

Apple should not have been so greedy to get a cut.
Apple should have just sold iphone like ipods, working with all carriers.
Heck, Apple is now selling music files to be used in any player, why not with the iphone and cell networks?
AT&T should have gone with the name Cingular.
Verizon blew it.

I teach high school.
With Cingular, I couldn't get reception in my class. All my students with Verizon had full bars.
I couldn't get good reception anywhere with Cingular (Los Angeles).
Switched to Verizon. Great service!!! Great coverage. Full bars in class.

If I go back to AT&T (Cingular) to get the iphone, I WOULD JUST HAVE AN IPOD FOR $600 + $60 for the insurance + $30 for the activation + $48 sales tax + a $20 car charger + a $45 dock + a $25 case . That's about an $800 investment with no service at $100 a month for the full plan.

Apple, this bites:mad: :mad: :mad:

And don't worry, ClimbingTheLog, I just took my chill pill:) :) :) HA!!!

[Hunabku]

Apple isn't doing 3G here because AT&T is insisting on selling their own music service on all of its 3G phones. Apple only wants iTunes, so they stay with 2.5G.


Ah so that's why. Well I guess apple had to make some sacrifices to get such an incredibly sweet deal with ATT.

Lets face it - the deal they got was revolutionary for a phone manufacturer and unfortunately it came with exclusives. But 5 years - i understand everyones pain, however it opens up a brand new and lucrative business model for Apple.

[Tadow]

=I am looking forward to the iPhone as well, too bad its going to be Rev 1 of the iPhone Pro or whatever they come out with in 5 years.:(

Yeah, don't you hate progress? Doesn't it suck when they keep improving a product every six months? You should wait until Rev 22 so they can work out all the problems.

[paintypants]

has anyone really made an ipod or a mac look a like to compare...

i've always had pc everything i'm so sick of drivers and crashing...

the iphone may have some bugs as do all new products- but once addressed those who like it or love it will be very happy.

i'm looking forward to the iphone

[joeshell383]

Me, me! $399 - $499!


Sorry, I had to. :p

Actually, according to (http://www.westegg.com/inflation/ (http://www.westegg.com/inflation))

$399 in 2001 dollars is equivalent to $451.82 in 2006 dollars.

The $499 model that shortly followed the original would cost $565.05 in 2006 dollars.

[technicolor]

I'm with T-Mobile so I'll just sit and wait for the Euro release and hope they get it. And hope it works on the US network :o

That is my hope too.

[leroy336]

Well, this news blows. Screw the iPhone. Le sigh, if only it was NOT a Cingular... errr ATT exclusive. Why apple? Why?

[Cinch]

5. Quick - someone name the price of the iPod (in today's dollars) when introduced...


Not quick but better late than never.

It was sold in 2001 for $399. Assume an inflation rate of 2.5% (CPI), it will cost you $463 in 2007. The consumer price index number is the best I can think of which sadly doesn't factor in products such as the iPod or a house. But if you factor in the quality and product improvements, tech products in general have always had deflationary pressure.

[snowe]

Its funny to read how things go in states. In Finland we are waiting for news what the price will be in here. In here it is illegal to do any contract with locked phones unless the phone uses CDMA/UMTS network. So we are used to buy the phone and then use the service provider we want. That is how we get one of the cheapest minutes in the world.

And in here no-one really cares about your credit.. prepaid doesnt mean you have no credit, it's mostly for teens for easy control of their money. The most common contract is a "normal" post-pay and you pay only what you use. Some operators use also take some monthly fee, but they are really rare nowdays. The monthly fee could be like 1$ per month.

So.. what happens when the iPhone arrives? If it costs in states like 500$ with a 2 year contract it will cost here like 700-800 euros. It would be the most expensive phone and not worth of that money. It can not be compared to Nokia N95 or new N90 Commmunicator which are lot cheaper that 800€.

The max price it could have in here would be 500 euros WITHOUT any contract, just a phone. Even then it would be one of the most expensives and way too expensive for its technology as most of the "good" phones in here uses CDMA/UMTS services.

I hope Apple will uprage iPhone to CDMA/UMTS device before carrying it to Europe.. it simply wont sell here with that price without CDMA/UMTS capabilities.

[glennyboiwpg]

Wowza. I don't care which carrier I go with (they all suck equally) but AT&T better offer really, really good plans. If there is widespread customer dissatisfaction with AT&T's handling of iPhone, Steve is going to be putting his foot very far up Sigman's ass. Nobody messes with Steve's baby.

"... Nobody messes with Steve's baby."

Including leopard...

[wnurse]

Wowza. I don't care which carrier I go with (they all suck equally) but AT&T better offer really, really good plans. If there is widespread customer dissatisfaction with AT&T's handling of iPhone, Steve is going to be putting his foot very far up Sigman's ass. Nobody messes with Steve's baby.

a phone manufacturer putting his foot up a cell carrier ass... fascinating. I thought the manufacturer needed the carrier, not the other way around. I'm sure AT&T will still be a carrier, regardless of whether stevie is pissed or not, just like verizon will be a carrier even though they turned down stevie.. where does apple fans get their arrogance from?

[gnasher729]

at&t simply cannot afford inaction, especially when you have a vip customer like apple. so in a sense, at&t customers now have a powerful advocate that can put the necessary pressure on at&t to keep the network running smoothly and to provide a great network experience, and neither company can afford to have the iphone fail. it could definitely have a rough start and i'm sure they'll be bugs along the way. anything else, however, would be unacceptable. execution will be critical here.

You could see that from Intel. Apple is the best customer you could have. They will be an absolute pain in the ****, but they will force AT&T to be the best. Before Apple, "we aren't doing well in this area, but Verizon isn't doing much better" would have been a valid excuse. Can you imagine what Steve Jobs would do with any manager coming up with something like this?

Before Intel Macs were introduced, Intel was behind AMD. Look at where they are now.

[AidenShaw]

Before Intel Macs were introduced, Intel was behind AMD. Look at where they are now.

Let's see now.

Intel introduces a new model of powerful, energy efficient, dual-core mobile chips (Yonah).

About six months later, they introduce another new generation of dual-core chips that are even more powerful and more energy-efficient and that spans the range from mobile to server (Merom/Conroe/Woodcrest).

Less than six months after that, Intel is shipping quad-core chips, setting a new standard in power and power-per-watt (Kentsfield/Clovertown).

A few months after that, Intel is showing its 45nm follow-on chip, running faster and at lower power (Penryn).

These new chips are helping Intel (which ships 3 out of 4 x86/x64 chips sold) regain market share from AMD, which is now in serious financial trouble.
_________________

Now what does Apple have to do with Intel's gains? Are you implying that Apple's purchase of 1% to 2% of Intel's production is responsible for Intel's resurgence? If so, that's an arrogant assumption.

[Roller]

Their pricey plans and poor customer service are what drove me away from Verizon. Sure, now that I'm with AT&T, I don't get coverage EVERYWHERE like I used to, but I live with it. Because to me, I'd rather have my money going to a company that actually gives a **** about me rather than a company that says "**** you".

I don't disagree. But there's a coverage level below which I can't afford to go because of my work. If AT&T's coverage is above that threshold, I'll switch in a flash. The only question is how to test that coverage. I wonder if there'll be any way to test coverage on the iPhone with the option of canceling the plan if there are problems. Given the anticipated supply shortfall, that may be difficult to do.

[jazzkids]

With this news, the iPhone is officially dead to me. There's no way I'm signing up with AT&T, both from past corporate practices and from current network suckage.

IMHO, this is a major mis-step from Apple.


I completely agree. Plus data plans are so ridiculously high. Sprint at least you can get vision for $15 a month.

Treo is where I'm staying for now.

[Vinnie_vw]

In other news, Microsoft is working on innovative touch-screen technologies (http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/18770/), so maybe that's what Verizon is hoping to offer.

[kirk26]

Funniest quote of the day:

"I'm glad we have (the iPhone) in our bag," he says. "Others will try to match it, but for a period of time, they're going to be playing catch-up."

iPhone-welcome to 2004. Time for you to catch up to my Pocket PC.

[Digitalclips]

In other news, Microsoft is working on innovative touch-screen technologies (http://www.technologyreview.com/Infotech/18770/), so maybe that's what Verizon is hoping to offer.

Yeah I heard that too, it's a top secret M$ development of course. There have been leaks and I hear it is a 'spin wheel' and it has ten holes in it around the edge and in each hole are numbers 0 through 9. You 'touch' by putting your finger in the hole and rotate and this wheel thing turns with a clicking sound (M$ patent on 'spin wheel' is pending). Once turned all the way (to a M$ patented stop pin) you let go and the wheel spins (automatically!) back so you can select the next hole number and so on. Redmond think it will be a sensation.

[johnee]

Yeah I heard that too, it's a top secret M$ development of course. There have been leaks and I hear it is a 'spin wheel' and it has ten holes in it around the edge and in each hole are numbers 0 through 9. You 'touch' by putting your finger in the hole and rotate and this wheel thing turns with a clicking sound (M$ patent on 'spin wheel' is pending). Once turned all the way (to a M$ patented stop pin) you let go and the wheel spins (automatically!) back so you can select the next hole number and so on. Redmond think it will be a sensation.

i don't get it.

[Cooknn]

I completely agree. Plus data plans are so ridiculously high. Sprint at least you can get vision for $15 a month..With T-Mobile I get unlimited data (BB BIS) for $19.99 / month. That's $15 less than Cingular. I'll stick with T-Mo...

[johnee]

Ah so that's why. Well I guess apple had to make some sacrifices to get such an incredibly sweet deal with ATT.

Wrong. Apple is the clear winner of this deal. I don't have to see their actual contract. I've seen others, which all say the same thing: Even though we're partnering with you, WE are going to take all the credit and the money while you do all the work.

[JeffLass]

As a mobile service provider, how do you advertise if you have the most dropped calls? Exaggerate, of course. Claim that you have the fewest dropped calls. A surprisingly large number will believe you until they subscribe and actually experience the real service. For major U.S. markets, Consumers Reports rates Verizon on top for service, and Cingular at the bottom. That's why Apple went to Verizon first.

There is no doubt that the iPhone smartphone is amazingly cool and Verizon made a major tactical mistake by not joining Apple's vision of the future. (Denny Strigl who?) But then Verizon has never been known for having a Steve Jobs type vision. Further, AT&T's 5-year lock on the iPhone is a gigantic feather in their cap ... if they can come through with improved service. Apple customers expect the best and become EXTREMELY vocal when service is not what it is supposed to be. (AT&T, n.b.!)

For years I've been locked into the awesome Palm OS and Palm Desktop app, and so the mobile product for me is the Palm Treo smartphone via Verizon. The 4-Gb SD card gives me all of the MP3s that I could possibly want to carry around. VoiceDial and CallRec tied to the programmable button are my most used apps followed by an old copy of thinkDB's relational database software that manages over a dozen frequently used databases.

Though I will admire all of my friends' iPhones -- and I know at least 15 who will be buying them -- I will not envy them. What I would really like from Verizon is an advanced Palm Treo smartphone with the new Linux OS and the capability of accommodating an 8-Gb SD card and syncable to the matching Desktop running on my MacBook Pro. A 2-Mp camera with flash would also be much appreciated. (Palm & Verizon, n.b.!)

:apple: rules

[Digital Skunk]

Yeah, don't you hate progress? Doesn't it suck when they keep improving a product every six months? You should wait until Rev 22 so they can work out all the problems.

What I was saying wasn't a progress joke... it was a joke about the long contract that Apple has with Cingular... there is no way in hell I will be switching from Sprint unless everyone I now on the east side of the mississippi river switches to Cingular. So I will wait for the Sprint version of the iPhone, if one ever comes out.

It was joke man. You are trying too hard to get insulted. :p

[Digital Skunk]

As a mobile service provider, how do you advertise if you have the most dropped calls? Exaggerate, of course. Claim that you have the fewest dropped calls. A surprisingly large number will believe you until they subscribe and actually experience the real service. For major U.S. markets, Consumers Reports rates Verizon on top for service, and Cingular at the bottom. That's why Apple went to Verizon first.

There is no doubt that the iPhone smartphone is amazingly cool and Verizon made a major tactical mistake by not joining Apple's vision of the future. (Denny Strigl who?) But then Verizon has never been known for having a Steve Jobs type vision. Further, AT&T's 5-year lock on the iPhone is a gigantic feather in their cap ... if they can come through with improved service. Apple customers expect the best and become EXTREMELY vocal when service is not what it is supposed to be. (AT&T, n.b.!)

For years I've been locked into the awesome Palm OS and Palm Desktop app, and so the mobile product for me is the Palm Treo smartphone via Verizon. The 4-Gb SD card gives me all of the MP3s that I could possibly want to carry around. VoiceDial and CallRec tied to the programmable button are my most used apps followed by an old copy of thinkDB's relational database software that manages over a dozen frequently used databases.

Though I will admire all of my friends' iPhones -- and I know at least 15 who will be buying them -- I will not envy them. What I would really like from Verizon is an advanced Palm Treo smartphone with the new Linux OS and the capability of accommodating an 8-Gb SD card and syncable to the matching Desktop running on my MacBook Pro. A 2-Mp camera with flash would also be much appreciated. (Palm & Verizon, n.b.!)

:apple: rules

The new Treo will be based on what Palm makes, it will be completely independent from what Verizon or Sprint or Cingular wants.

[Digital Skunk]

Funniest quote of the day:

"I'm glad we have (the iPhone) in our bag," he says. "Others will try to match it, but for a period of time, they're going to be playing catch-up."

iPhone-welcome to 2004. Time for you to catch up to my Pocket PC.

Dude... Pocket PCs are crap... where have you been for the last three years. I really mean nothing by it but have you seen the keynote? I admit that the iPhone is flashy and functional and that the whole Cingular thing sucks but every Pocket PC made sucks serious arse. Even the Treo I am waitingto by pales in comparison, but I will never say that the iPhone has any catching up to do.

[Digital Skunk]

Their pricey plans and poor customer service are what drove me away from Verizon. Sure, now that I'm with AT&T, I don't get coverage EVERYWHERE like I used to, but I live with it. Because to me, I'd rather have my money going to a company that actually gives a **** about me rather than a company that says "**** you".

You have two restaurants.

Restaurant #1 has a 30-minute wait time to get a table, a waiter who's condescending, tables that are a pain to sit in, a menu that's barely legible, another 30 minutes to wait for drinks, and an additional 20 minutes for food.

Restaurant #2 takes reservations and is extremely kind. The waiter greets you with a smile on his face and seats you in comfortable seats. The menu is descriptive and the waiter is knowledgeable. You get your drinks in under 5 minutes, and your food in under 15 minutes.

Who had the better food?

Restaurant #1 was better---but customers like me appreciate good service and are going to pass Restaurant #1 and visit Restaurant #2 again.

That's how I feel about Verizon vs. AT&T.

Rep #1: "Oh, Treos don't work on Macs. We don't support them. Maybe you should switch!"

Rep #2 (Tech Support Department): "Didn't someone tell you? Macs don't work with 99% of all the peripherals out there, like this phone. As a matter of fact, none of the phones we have work with Macs."

They told me this last year. I immediately switched to Cingular who told me outright: "Yeah, we support Macs. But not every one of our reps is trained to work with them. Just ask for one, there's always one on duty. There will always be one and they will help you out."

Unfortunately, not everyone is as educated on the Mac. Verizon said the same things to some of my colleagues at work, my colleagues who I had worked so hard on switching to Mac...and they switched back to PC thinking they had no way of syncing a Palm OS, BlackBerry, or Windows Mobile device to their Macs.

Damn Verizon for not training their representatives.

Everything you claim that the reps say is completely wrong. Been using PalmOS, Windows Mobile and that crappy blackberry stuff (Symbian) since 04 and have never had a problem syncing them with my iBook without software. Then I discover the MissingSync my this Mark guy and now I am in heaven.

You can't blame your own difficulties with technology on the part of the tech provider. You are correct about most reps though, they never have a clue as to what the freak is going on. I sold T-Mobile and those guys were just plain idiots.

[macnews]

The verizon "iPhone" will offer the following "features":

Limited blue tooth - don't expect to do much more than turn it on and off.

Visual voice mail - you will be able to see that you have a voice mail message

Special "new" internet browser - for an extra $4.99 per month

Ability to watch movies in landscape mode for $3.99 per movie (those you take with your phone will only cost $1.99 to watch)

Incorporate an mp3 player - just don't expect it to connect to anything unless you pay an extra $$$ per month not to mention only being able to get your mp3 files from Verizon and no other carrier (likely they won't be mp3 but some other proprietary format).

WiFi which will work very well except you need to pay, you guessed it, another $2.99 per month to activate it plus an additional daily or monthly fee to join what ever wireless hotspot is around. The $2.99 per month is required so they can still make some money if you join your home wireless network.


I like Verizon's coverage I just HATE the way they nickel and dime you for every feature they tend to cripple in a phone.

[Digital Skunk]

Its funny to read how things go in states. In Finland we are waiting for news what the price will be in here. In here it is illegal to do any contract with locked phones unless the phone uses CDMA/UMTS network. So we are used to buy the phone and then use the service provider we want. That is how we get one of the cheapest minutes in the world.

And in here no-one really cares about your credit.. prepaid doesnt mean you have no credit, it's mostly for teens for easy control of their money. The most common contract is a "normal" post-pay and you pay only what you use. Some operators use also take some monthly fee, but they are really rare nowdays. The monthly fee could be like 1$ per month.

So.. what happens when the iPhone arrives? If it costs in states like 500$ with a 2 year contract it will cost here like 700-800 euros. It would be the most expensive phone and not worth of that money. It can not be compared to Nokia N95 or new N90 Commmunicator which are lot cheaper that 800€.

The max price it could have in here would be 500 euros WITHOUT any contract, just a phone. Even then it would be one of the most expensives and way too expensive for its technology as most of the "good" phones in here uses CDMA/UMTS services.

I hope Apple will uprage iPhone to CDMA/UMTS device before carrying it to Europe.. it simply wont sell here with that price without CDMA/UMTS capabilities.

I studied economics for a year and it is true that Europe also has the highest rate of unemplyment, is that one of the reasons people over there cannot afford the iPhone?

We know America sucks when it comes to cell phones but is there is a way you can word that without soundling like your just insulting the country that provides a good portion of the worlds tech.

[Digital Skunk]

Put down the crackpipe, Skunker. Dell would destroy any value in Palm. Besides, the PalmOS on Linux phone (Quadro?) will be out by the end of this year. I'll be in line for it (Cingular doesn't even write contracts in this state). Funny, this will be the first Apple product I'll never use.

Okay man... I will put the pipe down, but Apple left me with no choice. This will also be my first Apple product I won't use. I do hope that you are correct about the Linux thing. The Palm OS is wonderful but it is a bit 20th century. I am not too big on what MS was thinking with Vista, but I wouldn't mind seeing some of the glits and glamour of Vista in the PalmOS (make it more practical and user friendly of course). When it does come out by the end of this year I will be in line for it at a Sprint store as well.

[archurban]

well, if it is true, it will be a good news for me because I don't use my cellphone much. sometimes, I feel I don't need contract at all. so if AT&T will do this, I will be happy. I think that the purchase with two years contract will be dropped the price. but if I want to have pay & go plan, it will be the same price as Apple announced before. but whatever I just want one now. it's time to chage my phone. so waiting is much worthy for me. :)

[GanleyBurger]

.
If someone can HACK the APPLE TV...

Why can't someone here hack the IPHONE...???:eek:

I can see it now...

A video on MacRumors showing someone who hacked the iphone to work on another network.

I can even see a market here for some kind of device which allows for Verizon users to use the iphone.

Bring back the love!!! Bring back the hope!!!:D :D :D

[GanleyBurger]

5 years?

Verizon will just wait for these two to turn 11.

SANTA ROSA might be out by then!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[WestonHarvey1]

Ain't drinking this cool aid.

ANd for all you newbbage types... I've been on apple products when Super Steve was in the house. Wozinator ][+ 48k. all you is latecoming hacks

I have an Apple I, using a Joe Namath Hamburger Grill for a case.

Noob.

[killmoms]

Before Intel Macs were introduced, Intel was behind AMD. Look at where they are now.

...That might be the most absurd thing I've ever read on these boards. I mean, I like Apple as much as the next Mac-fan here, but come on. The writing was on the wall for the NetBurst architecture as soon as the Pentium M started showing significantly improved performance was possible without huge clock-speeds. Everyone knew it was going to grow into a chip to replace the P4 and its ilk. Apple switched to Intel on the strength of their already-established roadmap vs. IBM's floundering one. Intel was set out to take back the lead well before Apple switched to them. :rolleyes:

[sishaw]

i don't get it.

It's a joke. The poster is describing an old-fashioned dial phone.

[AidenShaw]

The writing was on the wall for the NetBurst architecture as soon as the Pentium M started showing significantly improved performance was possible without huge clock-speeds.

The Netburst problem was only indirectly high clock speed - the real culprit was power consumption and therefore heat output.

If we had dual-core 12 GHz Pentium 4 chips running on 20 watts today, everyone would be saying what a brilliant move the Netburst architecture was.

Instead, they ended up using a huge amount of power just to come close to 4 GHz.

But I agree that gnasher729's comment was really absurd.

[One Bad Duck]

not true. apple will make money hand over fist on the phone AND contracts AND rebates from at&t. I guarantee it.

at&t will be the loser here, that's why verizon passed it up, cause they saw it would hurt them in the long run.

I don't think there's anyway at&t are gonna "lose". How can being
associated with the coolest innovative company around end you up
being the loser.

These companies have ridiculous amounts of dispoable income,
their problem is to get their brand into the eyes and mouths of
the young people of society. AT&T are looking at the iphone as
if anything a long term investment. Hence them signing without
even seeing the thing.

They said they want to reinforce the "hip" at&t brand to phase
out cingular. How better than to invest the latest kit from apple.
Meanwhile verizon is playing catch up. I think this is actually what
the industry needs, a shake up, these companies have slipped into
a relaxed controlled conveyor belt of slow developing products.

OnBdDcK

[XForge]

"Answer to the iPhone" = cheap crud with a gigantic price tag, and since it's Verizon, 9/10ths of the phone's features will be disabled so you have to use Verizon's crappy software to do whatever it is you want. I love my provider. ::twitch::

[Maccus Aurelius]

i don't get it.

Oh what an age we live in when people suddenly forget the rotary dial :(

[MacCurry]

What does "CDMA" mean?

Canadian Donkey and Mule Association

For phone voice & data standards, just Wiki it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mobile_phone_standards

The iPhone is Quad band GSM (850/900/1800/1900 MHz). It will work everywhere in the world. GSM is what the rest of the world is using. I'd like to remind everyone here, the US is NOT the leader in mobile telephony. It is happening in China and India where people will gladly shell out $500-$750 for a mobile phone because its the in-thing to do and over 8 million new subscribers are added EVERY month. Nokia and Samsung are the leading companies.

What is really bad about AT&T (formerly Cingular) is that they will NOT unlock your phone so that it can be used with another carrier. Lets say you have an unlocked iPhone, then you can use it with any GSM carrier in the world. If its locked to AT&T, then you can't unlock it and you're stuck if you wish to change carriers. Additionally, if the next gen of iPhone comes out in a couple of years, you can only sell your iPhone to another AT&T customer. Its a bad deal.

I recommend people to stay away from AT&T. If Apple doesn't agressively market the iPhone in Asia, they will ultimately find that it isn't a profitable product. The mobile phone industry is much more different than portable music player concept.

[yayaba]

.
I can even see a market here for some kind of device which allows for Verizon users to use the iphone.


Um, ok I'm not a guru on phone techonolgy here but this is pretty much impossible isn't it? There's no way to convert GSM signals to CDMA signals.

Unless someone busts open the iPhone and installs new firmware and hardware that'll do the signal conversion. Not likely in my book.

I want to stick up for AT&T/Cingular a little though. To those who said it sucked between the Golden Gate and Tahoe, I have Cingular and it works just fine for me. I live in Sacramento and I commute back and forth to the Bay Area once in awhile and my service in both regions is fine. I think stories of crappy services has to do more with crappy phones than anything. (my phone is generally rated as having good reception).

I remember when I visited Las Vegas with Verizon and I had to make a phone call home to my family, I couldn't. I had Verizon for 4-5 years and that was the only time where my phone literally said "No Service" and that was on the Las Vegas strip too. I was pretty peeved. So far with Cingular though, I've had a good experience (and I could even roam in Taiwan too!).

[yg17]

With T-Mobile I get unlimited data (BB BIS) for $19.99 / month. That's $15 less than Cingular. I'll stick with T-Mo...

And with T-Mobile, you won't drop every call you make and you'll have English speaking customer service reps who know what they're doing and are friendly to boot.

The BIS plan is about as cheap as you'll find data too. Plus, I can use it on my Pocket PC rather than the $30 Internet+Hot Spot plan :D

A co-worker of mine got a PPC on Stinkgular, and the data plan prices were as expensive as the actual voice plan itself, so he opted not to get it. If it's any sign of the iPhone's prices, you'll be spending 100 bucks a month just to use the damn thing.

I <3 T-Mobile. No plans on going elsewhere anytime soon. Not for ATT's iPhone, not for Sprint's cheap SERO plans, not for USCC's free incoming, not for Verizon's fast broadband. No other carrier in my experience has come close to offering the quality that T-Mobile has.

[kironin]

What is really bad about AT&T (formerly Cingular) is that they will NOT unlock your phone so that it can be used with another carrier. Lets say you have an unlocked iPhone, then you can use it with any GSM carrier in the world. If its locked to AT&T, then you can't unlock it and you're stuck if you wish to change carriers. Additionally, if the next gen of iPhone comes out in a couple of years, you can only sell your iPhone to another AT&T customer. Its a bad deal.

I recommend people to stay away from AT&T. If Apple doesn't agressively market the iPhone in Asia, they will ultimately find that it isn't a profitable product. The mobile phone industry is much more different than portable music player concept.


I think this is a bit pessimistic. They are several good services you can go to have your phone unlocked. If you are someone that travels overseas then it's quite possible and worth it to unlock your phone and use a local GSM card in your phone. I have been using an unlocked RAZR with my Cingular/ATT service for a while. Carriers don't liike you to know this but it's perfectly within your rights to have a phone unlocked.

I guarantee that you will need to have an unlocked iPhone, a way will be found. Most will probably never need to, but those with compelling reasons it wlli be possible, I have no doubt.

[killmoms]

I think this is a bit pessimistic. They are several good services you can go to have your phone unlocked. If you are someone that travels overseas then it's quite possible and worth it to unlock your phone and use a local GSM card in your phone. I have been using an unlocked RAZR with my Cingular/ATT service for a while. Carriers don't liike you to know this but it's perfectly within your rights to have a phone unlocked.

I guarantee that you will need to have an unlocked iPhone, a way will be found. Most will probably never need to, but those with compelling reasons it wlli be possible, I have no doubt.

Wasn't there recent legislation passed that basically said that carriers HAD to allow users to unlock their phones if they wanted? I thought I remembered reading something about that.

[yg17]

Wasn't there recent legislation passed that basically said that carriers HAD to allow users to unlock their phones if they wanted? I thought I remembered reading something about that.


The legislation was that it's legal to unlock a phone, but your carrier doesn't have to help you with it

[Maccus Aurelius]

And with T-Mobile, you won't drop every call you make and you'll have English speaking customer service reps who know what they're doing and are friendly to boot.

The BIS plan is about as cheap as you'll find data too. Plus, I can use it on my Pocket PC rather than the $30 Internet+Hot Spot plan :D

A co-worker of mine got a PPC on Stinkgular, and the data plan prices were as expensive as the actual voice plan itself, so he opted not to get it. If it's any sign of the iPhone's prices, you'll be spending 100 bucks a month just to use the damn thing.

I <3 T-Mobile. No plans on going elsewhere anytime soon. Not for ATT's iPhone, not for Sprint's cheap SERO plans, not for USCC's free incoming, not for Verizon's fast broadband. No other carrier in my experience has come close to offering the quality that T-Mobile has.

I currently use T-Mobile, and I'm pretty pleased overall despite a little drama here and there ( was charged twice TWICE, but was resolved and credited rather quickly). But I get a generous amount of minutes per month, free nights and weekends and so forth, so I'm very happy with it. If I had a phone that was more interactive, like the iPhone, I would love to have this+something like my current plan, then use the WiFi in hotspots to supplement the data.

[seashellz2]

I wonder if they (Verizon) have got the ZunePhone?

:eek:
---

uhhh...
whats a 'Zune'?






;)

[ClimbingTheLog]

The Netburst problem was only indirectly high clock speed - the real culprit was power consumption and therefore heat output.

Well, they gave up absolutely everything - energy budget, pipeline depth, prediction miss recovery - just to get the MHz up. If we want to talk about the real culprit let's press the elevator button for Marketing.

Um, ok I'm not a guru on phone techonolgy here but this is pretty much impossible isn't it? There's no way to convert GSM signals to CDMA signals.

No, but I see no reason you can't write an app that lets you use an iPhone as a bluetooth 'headset' for your mini Verizon phone in your pocket.

Except that it's a closed platform...

[AidenShaw]

Originally Posted by AidenShaw
The Netburst problem was only indirectly high clock speed - the real culprit was power consumption and therefore heat output.

Well, they gave up absolutely everything - energy budget, pipeline depth, prediction miss recovery - just to get the MHz up. If we want to talk about the real culprit let's press the elevator button for Marketing.

The GHz ceiling and the related energy budget were the problems.

If they'd been able to hit 12 GHz at 20 watts, nobody would complained about CPI or pipeline bubbles or branch prediction.

Yes, in hindsight the design was flawed in several areas.

The pipeline depth decisions and prediction design would have been reasonable tradeoffs, however, if the frequency could have been increased greatly.

Great failures are usually due to several mistakes. (If the Titanic hadn't been built from brittle steel, or if it hadn't hit the iceberg....)

[killmoms]

...or if it hadn't hit the iceberg....)

Just as a point of interest, I'm thinking this was probably the primary problem with that particular voyage. ;)

[JNB]

Yeah I heard that too, it's a top secret M$ development of course. There have been leaks and I hear it is a 'spin wheel' and it has ten holes in it around the edge and in each hole are numbers 0 through 9. You 'touch' by putting your finger in the hole and rotate and this wheel thing turns with a clicking sound (M$ patent on 'spin wheel' is pending). Once turned all the way (to a M$ patented stop pin) you let go and the wheel spins (automatically!) back so you can select the next hole number and so on. Redmond think it will be a sensation.

Wait a minute here! Steve showed that technology already in the SteveNote! Another Redmond Ripoff! :D

i don't get it.

Ah, kids today... ;)

[arkmannj]

In the last few years I signed up with AT&T, who then became Cingular (and screwed up a bunch of stuff), and now we're becoming AT&T again.
Service has been ok I suppose. I just hope it has decent service plans to compliment the iPhone. The price of the iPhone might be a bit expensive, but it's the service plan(s) that will cost the most over time. I would actually get two iPhones (Wife and myself) if there is a good, economical plan to compliment it well. I think the iPhone will be a decent device, my worries are mostly with AT&T.

[CalBoy]

In the last few years I signed up with AT&T, who then became Cingular (and screwed up a bunch of stuff), and now we're becoming AT&T again.
service has been ok I suppose. I just hope it's decent plans to compliment the iPhone. The price of the iPhone might be a bit expensive, but in the service plan(s) are what will cost. I would actually get two iPhones (Wife and myself) if there is a good, economical plan to compliment it well. I think the iPhone will be a decent device, my worries are mostly with AT&T.

I have similar concerns. I would buy one, but ATT's plans are bad...data service plans are $50 and up, and that doesn't include a great deal of data. I'll probably buy the iPhone after next January. Hopefully by then, ATT will have better data plans.

[arkmannj]

I have similar concerns. I would buy one, but ATT's plans are bad...data service plans are $50 and up, and that doesn't include a great deal of data. I'll probably buy the iPhone after next January. Hopefully by then, ATT will have better data plans.

Every time I think of a "data plan" I squirm a little bit. (because of price mostly) To be honest the only data I want is that feature to see who left voice mails, and select what I want to listen to. Other than that I have wifi about anywhere I care to connect to the internet on my phone with. (work, home, airports, movie theaters and some stores around here even have free wifi)

[Riquez]

Apple is also said to be prohibited from creating a CDMA version of the iPhone during this time.

Oh dear :(
All the networks in Japan are CDMA, so this is bad news for me.
May as well forget about the iPhone until at least 2013

[MacCurry]

Its time to dump the other standards in the trash can of history.

The world moves on GSM. Japan, Sprint and others need to get on the bandwagon or be left behind.

GSM has nearly 2.44 billion users world wide and growing.
http://www.gsmworld.com/index.shtml

Legislation on phone number portability was passed and if your number went to a new carrier, then the phone was unlocked. Unlocking the iPhone (that is hacking it) may void its warranty. Avoid AT&T.

[cgc]

...If they'd been able to hit 12 GHz at 20 watts, nobody would complained about CPI or pipeline bubbles or branch prediction.
...

At first, I thought you were talking about cell phone specs (12GHz @ 20W). I was thinking how nice that'd be to hold near your head.

[EagerDragon]

No CDMA version for 5 years? That pretty much discounts me getting an iPhone for 5 years. GSM is garbage in this country, anyone living in a city will tell you that. Ya know, areas with buildings where the GSM reception drops my an order of magnitude when you step inside? Yeah.

You are assuming that CDMA will still be around for 5 years.

[EagerDragon]

The "iPhone killers" will be rolling out for years to come. Just like the "iPod killers." Some might even be as thin and light as the iPhone (compared to the usual bricklike smartphones) but they won't have Apple ease-of-use, iTunes integration, or multitouch.

And they won't have Apple's mindshare. Every time one of them comes out, the articles and reviews will also mention iPhone. Free press for Apple every time a competitor is mentioned! Must be nice :)

I do want to see 3G speeds come to iPhone--and Apple has already announced that this is coming. I don't so much care about CDMA specifically though.

Don't forget that the iPhone has over 200 patents, it is going to be hard for most vendors to come up with anything that does not violate a patent or two.

[EagerDragon]

I have to agree... on one hand, I'm upset that the iPhone isn't going to be on Verizon's network, since they have an amazingly reliable and fast network; yet I'm totally relieved that the iPhone's not going with Verizon since they feel the need to cripple everything that comes with a phone... they disable bluetooth unless you pay for it, their menus are horrible, everything has that horrible red color scheme... basically it slows down every phone they sell...

I'm excited to see how Apple and AT&T work together... I'm hoping there won't be any extraneous AT&T branding on the iPhone. Imagine a phone sold the same way it was produced... it may actually work fast and efficiently!

Verizon cryples the phones, that is why I moved.

[EagerDragon]

i find that hard to believe as most big buildings have steel all throughout the building shell which stops most signals the farther in you get. 4 bars on verizon is indicative of a weak signal (they show a relatively high signal, but in fact it's actually much weaker) where as the att is a stronger signal cause it's closer. you might also have a picocell in/on your building
They probably installed a cell repeater on the building, that is likely why the signal is good. Depending on which they install, one will do better than the other.

A lot of buildings I go into like the supermarket have little o no reception regardless of carier.

Some like my pffice, with several repeaters, the signal is great no mater the vendor.

[EagerDragon]

Is this exclusivity good business strategy? What exactly is Apple getting by only selling to one cell phone company for five years? I don't see the benefit.

Also, they picked the wrong company. AT&T is hated, and this hatred runs much deeper than Apple/Microsoft. I'm not talking about their bad cell phone service five years ago - I'm talking about an arrogant, aggressive company in the early 1990s that treated the Internet and all of the associated technology like it was a joke.

We still remember, and as far as I know, there hasn't been an apology.

Sorry Tristan, but none of of have the facts and none of us know why Apple made the decisions they made.

Some of us may think the decisions are stupid, but are they?

Do you think that Apple and Steve whose project is the iPhone are both royally stupid?

We are all venting for one thing or another, Apple made those decisions believe me with their eyes wide open, we just don't know the reasons.

I think they made some brilliant moves and some moves it was a matter of the worst of 2 evils, we do not know which is which.

[Hummer]

I'm stuck with phone nazi verizon wireless until I get my own job and turn 18. My mom works for verizon so she sticks with verizon wireless because of the discounts and because her co-workers have verizon wireless.

[filmgirl]

See, here's the major problem with iPhone having a five year period of exclusivity (and it would be the same problem if it were anything greater than 1 year - to be totally honest) - a $500 and $600 phone is not going to be enough to convert as many people to AT&T as they think...I mean, by their own 10 million sold estimate (which is just an insane number), 1 out of every 5 current AT&T customers would have to get an iPhone...at $500 and $600, that's not going to happen -- not in the United States anyway (unless they can get businesses to adopt it - and the problem with that is that AT&T has ****** business plans). Plus, in 5 years, the iPhone will have real competitors, be on its third generation from Apple. I mean, from the demos I've seen - the interface IS amazing, but the fact remains that unless it can actually be a real replacement for the iPod (which will require it to have a capacity larger than the nano), I can't even see most normal people considering dropping that much dough on a phone (Especially when you know it's going to require either a special plan for a $20 data plan surcharge onto the existing plan). I'm stupid enough to do that sort of thing, but Cingular screwed me -- I hate them, and unless I can be assured that SBC has taken over customer service, I won't touch AT&T...period. Plus, I'd have to pay $20 more a month to get the same plan I have now - and my service with T-Mobile is stellar in my area (and my boyfriend is on Cingular/AT&T and his isn't as great).

Now here's a thought - Apple might have a contract of exclusivity with AT&T for five years, but without seeing the documents, that might only apply to the current iPhone and other iterations that are based on the same series. Meaning that other phones could be made for other providers, as long as they have a different build (even if they do the same thing or look essentially the same...other mobile phone companies have done this in the past to get around exclusive contracts). Unless there is a clause that says they can't make a phone for any other provider, PERIOD, I would expect them to eventually start courting other providers...because being with only one player is just not smart.

When you look at Apple's biggest success, the iPod, you have to examine exactly WHY it is successful. I've done a lot of thinking about this, and I feel very confident saying that it is because they released a version that was compatible with Windows. End of story. When the first iPod came out, I wanted one - I mean, I really wanted one - but as someone who uses Macs at school, but PCs at home, I wasn't able to get one right away. I eventually almost got Mac Opener and some other software that would allow me to use it on my PC, before hearing at one of the MacWorld or MacExpo things that Apple was coming out with a PC version that fall. I literally got one the day it came out. I worked at a large electronics store for five years, and Christmas 2002, I tried to convince people to go iPod, and sold a lot - but it was far from a huge hit. It wasn't until they launched the iTunes store for Windows and made the iPods singularly compatible (meaning both Mac and PC versions were in the same box) that the thing really exploded. What was great about iPod (and the Intel move), was that for the first time, Apple finally bucked the trend of being proprietary and requiring the whole world to come to them. They came to the customer instead. But with iPhone, it's the same old story - you must come to us. And for $600 plus a $60 or $70 monthly phone plan, not a lot of people are going to be knocking themselves out to switch providers to get a cool interface, a low-capacity iPod and a PDA. Especially once the "cool" wears off after 6 months (as soon as more than two people at a party have one, the whole "lust" factor will be over...which is typically when most other big phones drop in price and became easily affordable for everyone -- Apple's going to have a hard time dropping price when they are only selling to one carrier, because AT&T probably would have to take a $400 loss (that's saying they sell the phone for $100 or $200) for every phone they sell in an attempt to win customers, and even with a 2-year contract, that's tough to swallow)).

I mean, I'm sure they have reasons for this -- but Apple doesn't know the mobile phone industry, and the US market is different from other markets -- so I just hope they are prepared to sell under projections and deal with price issues. Because being exclusive to one provider is a risky move - period.

[AidenShaw]

Don't forget that the iPhone has over 200 patents, it is going to be hard for most vendors to come up with anything that does not violate a patent or two.

There's a lot of volatility in the software patent space - particularly with the situations where a patent is an "obvious" extension of other patents or prior art.

If a court decides that using two fingers to play a touch-sensitive screen is an obvious extension of prior art on single finger touch screens - the multi-touch Zune phone will be out the next day.

So, all the Iphone patents in Apple's portfolio could be rubbish - and the multi-touch music-playing Verizon phone could be here in July.

[AidenShaw]

Do you think that Apple and Steve whose project is the iPhone are both royally stupid?

Perhaps.

No competent CEO would let personal quests jeopardize the fiduciary health of the company.

The acknowledged fact that The Steve (dba Apple) has let the Iphone cause a slip to the 10.5 and perhaps risk further slips of the core OS business is evidence that he is taking chances on the future of the company.

If the iPhone is a flop, it could do serious harm the to stock price - but only due to the amount of hype that's been built up.

The cube was a flop, but it didn't harm the company. If the iPod had flopped, it wouldn't have harmed the company.

[yadmonkey]

To me, this thread is a reminder of and testimony to how much there is to hate about having a cell phone:

Multi-year contracts with steep penalties for ending prematurely.
Expensive plans.
Steep penalty prices for minutes which exceed your plan.
Dropped calls.
Bad call sound quality.
Rude and incompetant service professionals.
Extremely complex user agreements.
Horrible GUIs on phones.
Fragile and expensive equipment.
Driving while talking and driving while texting!!
The thought which festers in your subconscious about cell phones and brain cancer.
And now we can add to the list: a rare cool and desirable product is exclusive to a network which is not a good fit for you.

I know they provide some conveniences, but have cell phones really improved the quality of our lives all that much? Sure, they relieve the tedium of concentating on the road while you naviagte what is essentially a guided missile, and they make it possible to take a business call while sitting on a public toilet, but can they sound good, last long, be safe, and not cost us arms and legs? Can the iPhone?

[Riquez]

Its time to dump the other standards in the trash can of history.
The world moves on GSM. Japan, Sprint and others need to get on the bandwagon or be left behind.

What are you talking about? CDMA is the replacement for GSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W-CDMA). Perhaps you didn't notice, but Japan is generally the leader in Mobile Phone Technology. We have all the neat stuff here several years before the US & Europe.

This bandwagon you speak of - that's Japans old wagon that was sold on Ebay in 2001.

[elppa]

There's a lot of volatility in the software patent space - particularly with the situations where a patent is an "obvious" extension of other patents or prior art.

If a court decides that using two fingers to play a touch-sensitive screen is an obvious extension of prior art on single finger touch screens - the multi-touch Zune phone will be out the next day.

Except you give Microsoft too much credit for competence and ability to execute**.

Someone might do it, but not MS.







** Examples include the poorly thought out Zune in response to iPod (4-5 years late) and the bunged attempts at making anything approaching a decent copy of the Mac OS until 95, despite access to the inner workings of the Mac and seeing the work of Xerox just like Apple.

[JoeG4]

Sheesh. Who cares.

While I'm sure the iphone will be da shit™, I doubt it'll be a knockout success like the iPod if Apple endorses AT&T flat out.

[dernhelm]

To me, this thread is a reminder of and testimony to how much there is to hate about having a cell phone:

[snip]

I know they provide some conveniences, but have cell phones really improved the quality of our lives all that much? Sure, they relieve the tedium of concentating on the road while you naviagte what is essentially a guided missile, and they make it possible to take a business call while sitting on a public toilet, but can they sound good, last long, be safe, and not cost us arms and legs? Can the iPhone?

Don't kid yourself. Before cell phones, people found plenty of ways to be distracted while driving. Putting on makeup, fiddling with the 8-Track player, yelling at your kids, whatever. Even now, how many times have you seen someone distracted by their iPod while driving?

Don't get me wrong, I've wondered more than once about the idiot taking a call in the stall next to me in the men's room - but is that really the fault of the cell phone, or the fault of the idiot?

What I do think you'll see is more theaters, churches, etc. deploying "defensive measures" against cell phones - blocking them from working while you are there. Cars in motion with only one occupant should do the same.

[color guy]

My thoughts exactly...


To me, this thread is a reminder of and testimony to how much there is to hate about having a cell phone:
Multi-year contracts with steep penalties for ending prematurely.
Expensive plans.
Steep penalty prices for minutes which exceed your plan.
Dropped calls.
Bad call sound quality.
Rude and incompetant service professionals.
Extremely complex user agreements.
Horrible GUIs on phones.
Fragile and expensive equipment.
Driving while talking and driving while texting!!
The thought which festers in your subconscious about cell phones and brain cancer.
And now we can add to the list: a rare cool and desirable product is exclusive to a network which is not a good fit for you.

[peharri]

What are you talking about? CDMA is the replacement for GSM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W-CDMA). Perhaps you didn't notice, but Japan is generally the leader in Mobile Phone Technology. We have all the neat stuff here several years before the US & Europe.

This bandwagon you speak of - that's Japans old wagon that was sold on Ebay in 2001.

W-CDMA is not "CDMA" as used by Sprint. CDMA as used by Sprint, Verizon, and some companies in Japan is an obsolete pile of crap that only exists because of legacy issues. It's extremely disingenuous to look at a comment clearly talking about IS-95/CDMA2000/UMB and claim "CDMA" (in that context) is the future while linking to a GSM technology.

(And, FWIW, W-CDMA hasn't exactly been an outrageous success, despite the promises Code Division Multiple Access obsessives made at the time it was proposed. Once the LTE project reports, it seems probable that the technology will live on for largely legacy reasons, while OFDM based air interfaces are rolled out as quickly as the operators can manage.)

[peharri]

I think AT&T are putting too much faith in the iPhone, and likewise Apple are putting too much faith in AT&T. The iPhone is overhyped and incredibly expensive. AT&T's network still suffers from being a patchwork of different systems rather than being designed from the outset as a GSM system. The fact AT&T have been slow to roll out UMTS has also not helped. At this rate, despite T-Mobile not having anything but a few test transmitters up at the moment, it seems probable T-Mobile will have nationwide UMTS before AT&T does.

So not everyone likes AT&T, and the iPhone isn't as unique as people pretend it is either - let me rephrase that: there are phones that are equally compelling, and there are many phones that are cheaper, more functional, and more compelling. The iPhone will serve a niche, it doesn't redefine mobile telephony. To hear its supporters, you'd think virtually the entire world has been crying out for a large phone that can only be interacted with using a touchscreen.

Oh, and on the patents issue: forget it. Nokia and others hold key patents on GSM, UMTS, and pretty much everything else that Apple needs to implement in order to produce a phone compatible with AT&T's network. If Apple doesn't license its technologies, others will play hardball with them. I'm actually tempted to speculate that this was why Jobs made a point of mentioning the patents at the keynote, it wasn't a case of "Heh, nobody else can make a phone like this!", more "We've made a good phone. Compete with it fairly, or else we'll take our ball home."

[sishaw]

See, here's the major problem with iPhone having a five year period of exclusivity (and it would be the same problem if it were anything greater than 1 year - to be totally honest) - a $500 and $600 phone is not going to be enough to convert as many people to AT&T as they think...I mean, by their own 10 million sold estimate (which is just an insane number), 1 out of every 5 current AT&T customers would have to get an iPhone...at $500 and $600, that's not going to happen -- not in the United States anyway (unless they can get businesses to adopt it - and the problem with that is that AT&T has ****** business plans). Plus, in 5 years, the iPhone will have real competitors, be on its third generation from Apple. I mean, from the demos I've seen - the interface IS amazing, but the fact remains that unless it can actually be a real replacement for the iPod (which will require it to have a capacity larger than the nano), I can't even see most normal people considering dropping that much dough on a phone (Especially when you know it's going to require either a special plan for a $20 data plan surcharge onto the existing plan). I'm stupid enough to do that sort of thing, but Cingular screwed me -- I hate them, and unless I can be assured that SBC has taken over customer service, I won't touch AT&T...period. Plus, I'd have to pay $20 more a month to get the same plan I have now - and my service with T-Mobile is stellar in my area (and my boyfriend is on Cingular/AT&T and his isn't as great).

Now here's a thought - Apple might have a contract of exclusivity with AT&T for five years, but without seeing the documents, that might only apply to the current iPhone and other iterations that are based on the same series. Meaning that other phones could be made for other providers, as long as they have a different build (even if they do the same thing or look essentially the same...other mobile phone companies have done this in the past to get around exclusive contracts). Unless there is a clause that says they can't make a phone for any other provider, PERIOD, I would expect them to eventually start courting other providers...because being with only one player is just not smart.

When you look at Apple's biggest success, the iPod, you have to examine exactly WHY it is successful. I've done a lot of thinking about this, and I feel very confident saying that it is because they released a version that was compatible with Windows. End of story. When the first iPod came out, I wanted one - I mean, I really wanted one - but as someone who uses Macs at school, but PCs at home, I wasn't able to get one right away. I eventually almost got Mac Opener and some other software that would allow me to use it on my PC, before hearing at one of the MacWorld or MacExpo things that Apple was coming out with a PC version that fall. I literally got one the day it came out. I worked at a large electronics store for five years, and Christmas 2002, I tried to convince people to go iPod, and sold a lot - but it was far from a huge hit. It wasn't until they launched the iTunes store for Windows and made the iPods singularly compatible (meaning both Mac and PC versions were in the same box) that the thing really exploded. What was great about iPod (and the Intel move), was that for the first time, Apple finally bucked the trend of being proprietary and requiring the whole world to come to them. They came to the customer instead. But with iPhone, it's the same old story - you must come to us. And for $600 plus a $60 or $70 monthly phone plan, not a lot of people are going to be knocking themselves out to switch providers to get a cool interface, a low-capacity iPod and a PDA. Especially once the "cool" wears off after 6 months (as soon as more than two people at a party have one, the whole "lust" factor will be over...which is typically when most other big phones drop in price and became easily affordable for everyone -- Apple's going to have a hard time dropping price when they are only selling to one carrier, because AT&T probably would have to take a $400 loss (that's saying they sell the phone for $100 or $200) for every phone they sell in an attempt to win customers, and even with a 2-year contract, that's tough to swallow)).

I mean, I'm sure they have reasons for this -- but Apple doesn't know the mobile phone industry, and the US market is different from other markets -- so I just hope they are prepared to sell under projections and deal with price issues. Because being exclusive to one provider is a risky move - period.

Great, thoughtful post. I agree with your observation about the iPod--that was also my experience, and that of many others that I know. It will be interesting to observe the iPhone's progress.

[tristan]

Despite Apple's recent success, many of us remember a company that did plenty of great things, but made plenty of blunders too. I'll always love Apple, but I'm starting to think that this is another Newton - a high priced, low functionality, widely publicized flop that caused them to abandon a market that would later be worth billions (i.e. PDAs).

[yadmonkey]

Don't kid yourself. Before cell phones, people found plenty of ways to be distracted while driving. Putting on makeup, fiddling with the 8-Track player, yelling at your kids, whatever. Even now, how many times have you seen someone distracted by their iPod while driving?

Who's kidding? Cellular phone eclipse all of those things in terms of distraction and all of those other things are still in place to distract you on top of it, assuming we substitue 8-track for any other music source. Two years ago somebody was killed right outside of my house by someone who was driving while texting...

[jettredmont]

There's a lot of volatility in the software patent space - particularly with the situations where a patent is an "obvious" extension of other patents or prior art.

If a court decides that using two fingers to play a touch-sensitive screen is an obvious extension of prior art on single finger touch screens - the multi-touch Zune phone will be out the next day.

So, all the Iphone patents in Apple's portfolio could be rubbish - and the multi-touch music-playing Verizon phone could be here in July.

And monkeys could fly out of my butt.

Seriously, I doubt all 200 patents will hold up (probabilistically, one or two will be turned over if completely challenged), but even the fact that they have particular patents pending will be enough a stick to beat away most competitors trying to do similar things. They could even all get thrown out eventually (doubt it, but it's possible), but in the meantime no competitors allowed.

IMHO, from my experience, Apple is more conservative than most companies in applying for patents. They have a rather lengthy and involved internal process for vetting the patent application, and applications can and do go out the window in the late stages of that process if they don't seem like they would hold up in court. While this may have changed for the iPhone development, I strongly doubt it. I suspect, even believe, that the vast majority of patents that Apple applied for will be granted and will hold up under scrutiny.

Again, though, they might have gotten lazy/greedy here and applied for some paper-thin patents. I wouldn't count on it though. The real question here isn't the validity of the patents, but the importance of those patents; ie, without violating these patents, can a competitor make a device similar enough to Apple's phone to make a difference.

But, in the end, what we (consumers who aren't able/willing to move to AT&T for the phone) can hope for is that Apple's entry forces other makers to rethink their design goals (which are not patentable) and emphasize usability and utility over enabling their service providers to sell schlock like GetItNow! craplications.

[Lanbrown]

Not allowed to make CDMA version, nothing said about iDen. Imagine a rubberized-yellow iPhone with a multitouch push-to-talk thingie.

Sprint wants to converge their two networks and make it 100% CDMA. So no iDen either. In many areas Nextel was at capacity and had NO plans to expand. They were eager to sell to Sprint.

I said from the start that there would be no CDMA version. Why make a phone for ~150 million potential customers in a few countries when you can make a phone for over 1 billion potential customers and sell it in hundreds of countries.

They also don't have to deal with Qualcomm as much.

[mongoos150]

low functionality

?!:rolleyes:

[Lara F]

As a Verizon customer I wish negociations had worked out. I'm originally from Montreal, my parents are still there and I call about every other day. Verizon lets me call to Canada without incurring extra long distance fees (basically as if I was calling anywhere else in the US). Cingular/AT&T doesn't. Unless that situation changes there's no way I'm switching, especially since I've been generally satisfied with Verizon's service.

But I'm hopeful that when the 6G iPod finally arrives :rolleyes: it'll satisfy my current lust for the iPhone. :)

[yadmonkey]

But I'm hopeful that when the 6G iPod finally arrives :rolleyes: it'll satisfy my current lust for the iPhone. :)

Yeah, if they could make an iPod with PDA functionality and a stripped-down OS X, I'd be all over it. Meanwhile, CingulATT won't cut it for me either.

[Timeline]

I won't be buying an I phone now until it's available for all carriers.
This disgusts me.:mad:

[cloudnine]

I won't be buying an I phone now until it's available for all carriers.
This disgusts me.:mad:

yeah, because clearly all phones should be on all carriers at all times. Get a grip.

[izibo]

What is with people digging up old threads today?

[Tallest Skil]

I won't be buying an iPhone now until it's available for all carriers.
This disgusts me.:mad:

This thread is over a year old. Do not bump old threads. Just don't buy it ever, then, because it will never be CDMA.

[yadmonkey]

What is with people digging up old threads today?

Well, his name is Timeline and he's been a newbie since 2005, so clearly he exists outside of our space-time continuum. :eek: