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View Full Version : A new super gun...


Mr. Anderson
Jun 27, 2003, 08:15 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2003/BUSINESS/06/26/australia.metalstorm/index.html

We actually got a video of this thing at work - pretty damn impressive - althought it was a couple years ago and it was mostly 3d animation.

But the potential was huge - it was a wall of metal and its programmable, shooting in any number of firing patterns.

D

3rdpath
Jun 27, 2003, 08:58 AM
as much as the concept and technology is impressive, i always find it depressing that so much time/money/effort is spent on weapons development.

and smart weapons have proven to be only as smart as their operators...thus they should be named "weapons of questionable intelligence".

afterthought: and isn't it ironic that we spend a few years developing a weapons technology..and then spend the rest of our lives making sure no one else uses it...

"what a waste of gunpowder and sky"

Mr. Anderson
Jun 27, 2003, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by 3rdpath
as much as the concept and technology is impressive, i always find it depressing that so much time/money/effort is spent on weapons development.


I totally agree - one of the reasons I posted this is the 'overkill' factor. When you think about the amount of ammo one of these things shoots, its truly ludicrous.

I'd like to see more time spent developing a space plane, for instance, but defense is such a big industry. As long as there are wars and conflicts these sort of things are going to continue to be developed instead of something that might have more benefits.

D

neut
Jun 27, 2003, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
<snip> I'd like to see more time spent developing a space plane, for instance <snip>


me too. have you read the new Wired? great article on the on going space race and the $10M purse that is the pie in the sky...hopefully somebody does it right...the commercial aspect is a little scary.

hotels in space? how about some-******** telescopes on the moon...what happened to the natural drive for humans to explore!

well. heres hopeing (*) a mac will be a useful tool in space.

G4scott
Jun 27, 2003, 09:52 AM
Defense is such a big industry, because they have convinced us that they are needed to protect us and our interests.

dabirdwell
Jun 27, 2003, 10:15 AM
Sad Sad Sad

Mr. Anderson
Jun 27, 2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by G4scott
Defense is such a big industry, because they have convinced us that they are needed to protect us and our interests.

and then you come along with something new and better and everyone needs one.

Not only that, these things are built in with planned obsolesence....

D

pseudobrit
Jun 27, 2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
and then you come along with something new and better and everyone needs one.

Not only that, these things are built in with planned obsolesence....

i.e. their next model will fire a million rounds a second and have better targeting so you'll have to rush out and buy up the new ones before the enemy does.

It's almost worse than the computer industry.

patrick0brien
Jun 27, 2003, 10:56 AM
-Great

Now we can do more than render people dead, we can render them seriously dead.

jethroted
Jun 27, 2003, 10:57 AM
Yup we can always use a gun that shoots 1000000 round a minute. Gotta get those super deer!

agreenster
Jun 27, 2003, 11:11 AM
Dont forget that it is human nature for some to be evil and destructive.

If there is no defense against that, then the people who arent evil and destructive are as good as dead.

patrick0brien
Jun 27, 2003, 11:18 AM
-A rethought

At first I thought 16,666 rounds a second was way excessive, then I thought of a practical use - believe it or not.

Replacement for a battleship's Phalanx guns. 16,666 rounds/sec would definitiely be useful there - not to mention this gun is smaller, and thus more nimble.

Do you suppose this is some sort of Rail gun? No moving parts and caseless ammo seems to lend to this theory.

MacManDan
Jun 27, 2003, 11:30 AM
Why so negative everyone?

Beyond it's obvious extreme destructive power, the article says it can be electronically programmed to not fire in certain areas (such as schools). If that worked as promised, and this technology picks up, it seems to me that it could make some places much safer. (ie schools, where we've had problems with guns lately)

Mr. Anderson
Jun 27, 2003, 11:30 AM
Nah, the way this works is that its stacks the bullets in the barrel, so you might have 100 barrels and 1000 round per barrel, or some such thing as that.

Reloading might be a bitch. Not sure - if I can dig up the video I'll try and get more info.

D

MrMacMan
Jun 27, 2003, 12:31 PM
YES!

SSSUuUPPPPAAARRR GUUN!!

This will save us all... wait, I'm thinking of world peace, this will rip us to shreads.

jayscheuerle
Jun 27, 2003, 01:19 PM
If it takes you a million rounds to hit your target, maybe you shouldn't be the one behind the gun.

pgwalsh
Jun 27, 2003, 02:15 PM
Now if we can just get it in the hands of kids.....:eek:

jayscheuerle
Jun 27, 2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by pgwalsh
Now if we can just get it in the hands of kids.....:eek:

Now, now....

Guns don't kill people, bullets do.

Have they actually shot this thing for a full minute or do they run out of ammo after 3 seconds? They don't mention that the bullet cartridge is the size of a refrigerator.

I could have used one of these down at the boardwalk for that game where you're supposed to shoot the star completely out of the paper target.

Mr. Anderson
Jun 27, 2003, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Have they actually shot this thing for a full minute or do they run out of ammo after 3 seconds? They don't mention that the bullet cartridge is the size of a refrigerator.


you don't shoot all the shots at once, is my guess. Besides, you'd not need to use up 1 million rounds at a go. Sort of knowing you could makes it kind of silly if you think about it.

D

patrick0brien
Jun 27, 2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
They don't mention that the bullet cartridge is the size of a refrigerator.

-jayscheuerle

I suppose it'd have to be. But al least with caseless ammo, all of that capacity would be only bullets.

Have you seen the Phalanx? The Ammo carrier is the size of a small car!

Phalanx (http://ussnewjersey.com/images/rect21-14.jpg)

jayscheuerle
Jun 27, 2003, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
Have you seen the Phalanx? The Ammo carrier is the size of a small car!

Phalanx (http://ussnewjersey.com/images/rect21-14.jpg)

Who knew R2D2 had a schwantz!

LethalWolfe
Jun 27, 2003, 07:22 PM
I guess I'm in the minority but I think it's a pretty cool piece of technology.

It is effective w/both lethal and non-lethal ammunition.
It could be used to create "smart guns" so only authorized users can fire the weapon, and "dead zones" so the weapon will not fire if taken into specific locations (schools, government building, etc.,)
And, as another user pointed out, it could be used to replace current anti-missle weapons.

Obviously the "bullet firing" version would not likely be an anti-personal weapon because that would be uber overkill. But it could be an anti-armor weapon (something in the same vein as the A-10's tank shredder).

Here's a blurb from a FAQ at the Metal Storm website:

"Metal Storm is much more than a gun system. Outside its application as a weapon system, the technology has potential application in a range of diverse commercial areas, including fire fighting, precision agricultural chemical distribution, fastening systems for use in the construction industry, and seismic surveying for minerals and oil.

Also Metal Storm is not just about firing bullets. First and foremost Metal Storm is an electronically controlled delivery system. One which can store and fire bullets, or grenades, and which can just as easily fire massed containers of fire retardant powder, or similarly, agricultural chemicals.

Metal Storm Limited is pressing ahead with both military and civilian applications of the technology, including, in the longer term, applications such as industrial fasteners and nails, and, in the shorter term, an exciting aerial fireworks system capable of creating unique air-burst patterns and colours, and perhaps even complex advertising slogans in the night sky."


Lethal

jayscheuerle
Jun 27, 2003, 08:05 PM
Lethal,

Here's a thought about non-lethal ordinace coming from this monster.

If we go on a supposed 1" long "rubber bullet", even foam rubber for that matter...

1 million shots per minute = 16,666 per second (pretty fast!)

Obviously, they can't come out on top of each other, but if they came out end to end (like a stream), that would be 16,666 inches per second or 60,000,000 inches per hour or 947 miles per hour (faster than the speed of sound!).

A chunk of foam going 500 mph doomed the Space Shuttle. A mini-marsmallow going 947 mph would rip a pretty good hole in your arm.

No judgement here. Just an intoxicated math correlation! :D

LethalWolfe
Jun 27, 2003, 08:27 PM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
Lethal,

Here's a thought about non-lethal ordinace coming from this monster.

If we go on a supposed 1" long "rubber bullet", even foam rubber for that matter...

1 million shots per minute = 16,666 per second (pretty fast!)

Obviously, they can't come out on top of each other, but if they came out end to end (like a stream), that would be 16,666 inches per second or 60,000,000 inches per hour or 947 miles per hour (faster than the speed of sound!).

A chunk of foam going 500 mph doomed the Space Shuttle. A mini-marsmallow going 947 mph would rip a pretty good hole in your arm.

No judgement here. Just an intoxicated math correlation! :D

That's why the non-lethal ammo would come out of the grenader launcher and not the uber-gun. Plus they have may varients of this tecnology, like hand guns and a flash-bang launcher, on their website. The CNN article, which has a link to their site, is only focusing on two of their products and only on military applications. Police departments have shown interest in their handguns because planned models would be able to fire both lethal and non-lethal munitions from the a single, multi-barreled handgun.

I would suggest reading up on their products before condeming them. They have suggested uses for their tech in firefighting, construction and even firework displays.


Lethal

jayscheuerle
Jun 27, 2003, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by LethalWolfe
I would suggest reading up on their products before condeming them.

No condemnations here, just observations.

I hadn't read further on the technical aspects of the million shotter, but it will only hit that rate with the 36 barrel unit (crowd control I guess?).

That would knock the speed down to 26 miles per hour (minimum) using increasingly flawed math.

The article also says it only holds 540 rounds, which would be gone in about a 30th of a second. That's a big "whoops!"

It will be interesting to see where or if this pans out in the next 5 years. - j

LethalWolfe
Jun 27, 2003, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
No condemnations here, just observations.

I hadn't read further on the technical aspects of the million shotter, but it will only hit that rate with the 36 barrel unit (crowd control I guess?).

That would knock the speed down to 26 miles per hour (minimum) using increasingly flawed math.

The article also says it only holds 540 rounds, which would be gone in about a 30th of a second. That's a big "whoops!"

It will be interesting to see where or if this pans out in the next 5 years. - j

Yeah, condeming was kinda a harsh term. Having a bad day and I'm a bit edgy sorry.

But, again, the "uber-gun" would not be used against soft targets (people). It would most likely be an anti-armor/vehicle weapon and used to shoot down missles. For soft targets they have a "grenade launcher" that can fire non-lethal ammo as well as stand alone flash/bang launchers and they are working on handguns that can fire both lethal and non-lethal ammo.

I repeat, the super-gun is not intended to be used against soft targets. So no one is going to get shredded by marshmellows flying a billion miles an hour. ;)


Lethal

hvfsl
Jun 28, 2003, 03:19 AM
I want more research done on the ion gun and phaser. Both of the weapons can be used to kill, but they can also be used to stun people. The US military was working on a phaser and the UK military was working on the ion gun but they gave up because the guns required the soliders to have a massive battery on their backs for the guns to work. I read about them in the New Scientist.

I can't remember how the phaser working but the ion gun works by ionizing the air straight in front of the gun. This then allows electricity to flow through the air to the target. The amount of electricty can be adjusted depending on whether you want to kill or stun. The US military only ever managed to get the phaser to work in stun, since they could not get it to kill anyone they gave up on it.

wsteineker
Jun 28, 2003, 03:21 AM
I'm not really sure what to think here. Being born and raised into a military family (I'll be the first generation of my family since the French and Indian War not to serve), this really resonates with me. On the one hand, it has enormous potential to save US soldiers' lives, as it would be an excellent anti-armor weapon, thus saving our guys and gals from having to confront enemy armored units at a closer range. So that's definitely a plus. Not to mention the potential non-lethal applications of such a technology, which are truly staggering. That being said, the thought of our military deploying such a truly deadly weapon is almost terrifying. And the notion that my tax dollars went to such a project as this instead of, say, education really bothers me as well. Oh well, just my $.02.

scem0
Jun 28, 2003, 03:24 AM
I don't know whether to be happy or sad.

We depend on guns yet they will eventually help lead to our demise (I think - along with explosives and other tools of destruction).

scem0

mangoman
Jun 28, 2003, 12:19 PM
This thing is beautiful...

Love and rockets,

mangoman
(USMC: 1990-1994)

zed
Jun 29, 2003, 11:01 AM
i just couldnt resist :)

hey... were did that little guy come from ;)


hmm... didnt attach the pic... lemme try again

zed
Jun 29, 2003, 11:03 AM
round 2

MrMacMan
Jun 29, 2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by zed
round 2

OMFG GREAT!!!

SO FUNNY!!!

:DIES LAUGHING: :eek: :D

jayscheuerle
Jun 29, 2003, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by zed
round 2

OMG!

Even better than I imagined! Shiz n giggles big time. Right when I needed a perk!

:D

zed
Jun 29, 2003, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by jayscheuerle
OMG!

Even better than I imagined! Shiz n giggles big time. Right when I needed a perk!

:D

well i definitely have to credit you with the idea. :)

Das
Jun 29, 2003, 03:34 PM
Wow, that's tight. That thing looks like it can kill more people than a drunk Kennedy.

Plus, this will lead to fewer deaths, now we can just annihilate our enemies instead of having our soldiers killed. Still, I'd like to see a real world test on a place that no one would miss if it got blown up like oh, say Canada, if only we could find it on a map.

hvfsl
Jun 29, 2003, 03:55 PM
A better weapon would be the ion cannon out of Command and Conquer. For anyone that does not know it is an obital laser platform. (although it is not really a laser) In the long run it would be cheaper than using bombs and more acurate, the laser could just recharge with its inbuilt nuclear generator. The US could have then killed Sadam while he was still in the bunker at the beginning of the war. This is a similar idea to Star Wars 2 except the laser has a lot more power and is able to destroy entire buildings.

http://www.gamer.no/bilder/spill/cc_renegade/renegade-03.jpg

MrMacMan
Jun 29, 2003, 09:45 PM
Which C&C is that?

Generals?

What the hell?

patrick0brien
Jun 29, 2003, 10:59 PM
Originally posted by zed
round 2

-Haaah! :D :D

Very nice.

eyelikeart
Jun 30, 2003, 12:05 AM
Originally posted by zed
round 2

ha ha ha...look at the little fella! :D

Frohickey
Jun 30, 2003, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by G4scott
Defense is such a big industry, because they have convinced us that they are needed to protect us and our interests.

It is. Remember what happened to Tibet with its almost non-existent Army when China decided to waltz in.

When I see one of those Free Tibet bumper stickers, I think that it should be ARM Tibet.

Military is not necessarily good or evil. It all depends on who its controlled by. Thats why in the US, the military is under civilian control. What used to be better is when most of the military are civilians. This is the way Switzerland is.
When the German Kaiser asked in 1912 what the quarter of a million Swiss militiamen would do if invaded by a half million German soldiers, a Swiss replied: shoot twice and go home. (http://i2i.org/Publications/IP/Other/Target_Switzerland.htm)

Frohickey
Jun 30, 2003, 12:29 AM
The thing about MetalStorm is that reloading it might be difficult since the bullet, propellant and barrel are all together. The Phalanx is essentially a computer controlled mini-gun, or 4.

As far as being used in the civilian market, I doubt any police officer would willingly stake their life on a computer-controlled gun that can be electronically programmed to not fire in certain areas. Can you imagine criminals with 'gun jammers'?

Oh, lets just ban the possession of 'gun jammers', like the law that bans possession of drugs STOPs the possession of drugs.

hvfsl
Jun 30, 2003, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by MrMacman
Which C&C is that?

Generals?

What the hell?

The screen shot is from C&C Renegade, but the weapon is also in the original C&C and Tiberian Sun.

Pants
Jun 30, 2003, 05:37 AM
Originally posted by LethalWolfe


But, again, the "uber-gun" would not be used against soft targets (people). It would most likely be an anti-armor/vehicle weapon and used to shoot down missles. For soft targets they have a "grenade launcher" that can fire non-lethal ammo as well as stand alone flash/bang launchers and they are working on handguns that can fire both lethal and non-lethal ammo.

I repeat, the super-gun is not intended to be used against soft targets. So no one is going to get shredded by marshmellows flying a billion miles an hour. ;)


Lethal

They've been pushing this thing for a few years now with little success, and for some obvious reasons.

Intention and actual use are two very dfifferent things. Anti-aircraft cannons were never designed to be used against surface targets, but they are extremely effective in that role. As for anti armour uses, well, this thing is a little limited - barrel length and round material limit it for a start. Its prime (and about only one i can think of) is in point to point systems, but given its lack of accuracy at range, it really would be a desperation weapon.

Why turn this into a hand gun? does ANYONE need a gun that empties it self in under a 30th second? there are no military uses for this - its only use is for drive-bys!

scem0
Jun 30, 2003, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by zed
round 2

I'm not sure whether I should laught or vomit.....

I'll laugh :rolleyes: ;) :D :D.

scem0

ouketii
Jun 30, 2003, 04:01 PM
ok, so unless this thing has integration with ichat av, i'm not too excited. immagine.. duct tape an ibook to a predator drone, fly it over iraq or afganistan or whereever, and shoot stuff. or just take pictures. maybe play some itunes too.

johnstash
Aug 1, 2003, 08:09 AM
Make sure to pass this news around MTSX is about to be adopted by U.S.A. DOD.
Everyone here know
General Dynamics ....:)
Everyone know who "Eagle Enterprises" are?
They are the subsidiary of GD, who were granted the Objective Force Warrior integration contract.

Everyone know that the OFW ( http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/ofw.htm ) is not just about the soldier system, but also includes two vehicles called the RISS and RAAS (Robotic Armored Assault System), that are to acompany soldier squads.
Each 12 man squad would have two RAAS.

http://www.gd.com/prod_serv/combat/OFW/ofwgraphics_new.htm

http://www.army-technology.com/contractors/armoured/general_dynamics/
"The General Dynamics Eagle Enterprise concept for the OFW system of systems includes a Robotic Armored Assault System (RAAS) that may carry three weapon systems, including crew-served weapons, mortars and anti-armor munitions."

An interesting article (must read sometime)
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/article.cfm?Id=1173

Okay, now these are a big deal ... for the last few years, I have mostly gone on and on about FCS and OFW (the crux of transformation).

So, wouldn't it be really cool, if I could provide some info, that linked Metal Storm weapons to the RAAS? - haha, no, not the OICW, but the RAAS!

From the Full Spectrum Warfare Conference (23-25 June, 2003)
http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2003armaments/index.html
OFW Operational concepts - by Mr. John H. Northrop

It has the four man teams (page 9)
T = Team Leader = OICW/EGLM
AR = Auto Rifleman = LWMG
Gr = Grenadier = OICW/EGLM
PE = Prec Eng Spec = FIW

and then!
RAAS = Mortar - Metal Storm / OCSW

This presentation (from General Dynamics)is saying that the squad members will be carrying a variety of the objective individual combat weapon (XM8), enhanced grenade launcher module (XM29), light weight machine gun (LMG), and that their accompanying vehicle to be equipped with the objective crew served weapon (OCSW) and Metal Storm!

I'll let this sink in for awhile...
regards
sweeder

MrMacMan
Aug 1, 2003, 10:52 PM
Yes lets replace all of our machine gunners with a metal storm!

GO BIG BOX!!!

:rolleyes:

Kills faster than anything can. :mad: