The Creation Museum

[OutThere]

Full Article (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/24/arts/24crea.html?em&ex=1180152000&en=3fce574910e89398&ei=5087%0A)

Damn, this sounds scary as hell...total BS about Adam and Eve and dinosaurs living together and there being dinosaurs on the Moses' ark, presented as fact.

Here's a little snippit:

For here at the $27 million Creation Museum, which opens on May 28 (just a short drive from the Cincinnati-Northern Kentucky International Airport), this pastoral scene is a glimpse of the world just after the expulsion from the Garden of Eden, in which dinosaurs are still apparently as herbivorous as humans, and all are enjoying a little calm in the days after the fall.

It also serves as a vivid introduction to the sheer weirdness and daring of this museum created by the Answers in Genesis ministry that combines displays of extraordinary nautilus shell fossils and biblical tableaus, celebrations of natural wonders and allusions to human sin. Evolution gets its continual comeuppance, while biblical revelations are treated as gospel.

Outside the museum scientists may assert that the universe is billions of years old, that fossils are the remains of animals living hundreds of millions of years ago, and that life’s diversity is the result of evolution by natural selection. But inside the museum the Earth is barely 6,000 years old, dinosaurs were created on the sixth day, and Jesus is the savior who will one day repair the trauma of man’s fall.

Mark Looy, a founder of Answers in Genesis with its president, Ken Ham, said the ministry expected perhaps 250,000 visitors during the museum’s first year. In preparation Mr. Ham for 13 years has been overseeing 350 seminars annually about the truths of Genesis, which have been drawing thousands of acolytes. The organization’s magazine has 50,000 subscribers. The museum also says that it has 9,000 charter members and international contributors who have left the institution free of debt.

But for a visitor steeped in the scientific world view, the impact of the museum is a disorienting mix of faith and reason, the exotic and the familiar. Nature here is not “red in tooth and claw,” as Tennyson asserted. In fact at first it seems almost as genteel as Eden’s dinosaurs. We learn that chameleons, for example, change colors not because that serves as a survival mechanism, but “to ‘talk’ to other chameleons, to show off their mood, and to adjust to heat and light.”

That bit about the chameleons is absolutely frightening. How can straight up misinformation like this be taking place......

[obeygiant]

and here i thought the story of adam and eve was just symbolism.

[psychofreak]

What a waste of money...it could have gone to a more reasonable cause like the 'Mac Pro for Psychofreak fund' (PM me if you're interested in contributing)

[Thomas Veil]

Full Article (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/24/arts/24crea.html?em&ex=1180152000&en=3fce574910e89398&ei=5087%0A)

There. Fixed it for ya, OutThere.

How anybody over the age of 6 can not realize that Genesis is a fairy tale is beyond me.

Maybe instead of railing against this stupid museum, we should put it into its proper context. Can we find a donor to open a Star Trek museum on one side of this place, and Santa's Workshop on the other? We'll hire curators who will insist that they're real too.

[psychofreak]

Full Article (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/24/arts/24crea.html?em&ex=1180152000&en=3fce574910e89398&ei=5087%0A)

There. Fixed it for ya, OutThere.

How anybody over the age of 6 can not realize that Genesis is a fairy tale is beyond me.

Maybe instead of railing against this stupid museum, we should put it into its proper context. Can we find a donor to open a Star Trek museum on one side of this place, and Santa's Workshop on the other? We'll hire curators who will insist that they're real too.

Its more likely that the 'storylines' of Star Trek are happening in galaxies far away than the stories in Genesis are real for this Earth :)

[obeygiant]

We'll hire curators who will insist that they're real too.

Pay 27 million and I'll tell you whatever you want.

[FFTT]

Gee with all the money they plan to bring in, maybe they'll start a university.

[it5five]

I heard they even have a planitarium that "disproves" the big bang. L-O-freakin'-L.

[solvs]

and here i thought the story of adam and eve was just symbolism.

Actually, it's Babylonian.

Ba-dump bump.

[Don't panic]

Maybe instead of railing against this stupid museum, we should put it into its proper context. Can we find a donor to open a Star Trek museum on one side of this place, and Santa's Workshop on the other? We'll hire curators who will insist that they're real too.

that would be a fantastic idea.
if i was a millionaire i would do just that.

[obeygiant]

a photo essay of the museum

http://studentweb.eku.edu/zachary_lynn/museum/index.html

Sheep: God, please create women ASAP!. (http://studentweb.eku.edu/zachary_lynn/museum/index.html#naming) lol.

[Swarmlord]

and here i thought the story of adam and eve was just symbolism.

I always found it amusing that the fundamentalists that are dead set on believing Genesis as a verbatum report on the day to day process of creation are consistently short on details about the incestuous relationships that by definition had to exist if the entire human race descended from two people. I want to know who supposedly slept with whom and which branch of the family turned oriental, which one turned white, etc. What magical moment did incest change from being a necessity to being a sin?

[Queso]

Oh that is just fantastic. Can they franchise it to Britain? Please? :D

[bartelby]

Oh that is just fantastic. Can they franchise it to Britain? Please? :D

Maybe they can set up next door the the Scientology HQ in London!

[Queso]

Maybe they can set up next door the the Scientology HQ in London!
And offer passers-by free sin tests to entice them in :D

[Bobdude161]

A little more local article (http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007705290405)

"If you want to believe you came from animals, that's you," said Paul Aduba, who came from Toledo, Ohio. "But it's a lie."

First of all I thought that said Paula Abdul, then was dissapointed when i read it again. Second, that guy is a total newb.

[leekohler]

I was going to stay away from this, but that place is messed up. I looked at the photo tour- simply frightening.

[IJ Reilly]

First of all I thought that said Paula Abdul, then was dissapointed when i read it again. Second, that guy is a total newb.

Whoever she is, she came from Toledo, not animals. I'm not so sure there's a real big difference.

[solvs]

What magical moment did incest change from being a necessity to being a sin?

It never became a sin.

[iBlue]

...

That bit about the chameleons is absolutely frightening. How can straight up misinformation like this be taking place......

it's all complete crap but I did want to comment on the chameleon part. I had jackson's chameleons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamaeleo_jacksonii) and when they got pissed off they turned a dark shade, almost black and glared you down with their strange independetly moving eyes. The chameleon's mood does show in their colouring, however their reasoning for it and claiming it's not a survival thing is absurd.

[.Andy]

it's all complete crap but I did want to comment on the chameleon part. I had jackson's chameleons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamaeleo_jacksonii) and when they got pissed off they turned a dark shade, almost black and glared you down with their strange independetly moving eyes. The chameleon's mood does show in their colouring, however their reasoning for it and claiming it's not a survival thing is absurd.
Creationism threads are no place for interesting nature facts iBlue :mad:

[Dont Hurt Me]

Who needs hard science when fairy tales will do? Its all about control, Its hard to tell who is worse our own federal govt or the churches. Both want the peoples minds & $$$ and both will lie their butts off to get it. Im starting to think we are a product of de-evolution.

[clevin]

if ppl want to be ignorant, there is greatest freedom to do so in the Greatest country of the world, unfortunately, when large population going that way, so does the country as a whole, too bad human natural is to be easy rather than accepting the hard truth.

[EGT]

it's all complete crap but I did want to comment on the chameleon part. I had jackson's chameleons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chamaeleo_jacksonii) and when they got pissed off they turned a dark shade, almost black and glared you down with their strange independetly moving eyes. The chameleon's mood does show in their colouring, however their reasoning for it and claiming it's not a survival thing is absurd.

We used to have a beautiful Madagascan chameleon along with various other reptiles. There was a Green iguana, a Tokay gecko, a Sudan plated lizard, the chameleon and a common garter snake all in the same shed at one point! Most of the time we saw the chameleon he was BLACK with rage defending his branch. :eek: :p

They are amazing creatures. It was great watching him home in on a locust or cricket with those freaky eyes. They'd line up and focus together and he'd moved back and forth, side to side getting his aim ready to strike. And the little grippy feet pads! Ouch! They hurt! :p

It's so saddening to see this "museum" teaching the future generations things that are so blatantly wrong. The true beauty of nature and science behind it being taught in this way .... *sigh* :( Where do you start?

[-::ubermann::-]

a museum? for creation?

thats why churches are built why a museum?

[leekohler]

a museum? for creation?

thats why churches are built why a museum?

Because we have our own Taliban/al Qaeda, and they feel they're under attack! When really the only thing they have to fear is their own ignorance.

[adroit]

"We learn that chameleons, for example, change colors not because that serves as a survival mechanism, but “to ‘talk’ to other chameleons, to show off their mood, and to adjust to heat and light.”

Can someone explain to me what the fundis have against chameleons using colour changes for survival? Is it because the survival thing implies some sort of evolutionary mechanism?

At any rate, what a bunch of nut jobs. :rolleyes:

[furcalchick]

i know for a fact that there's a whole sect of christians that believe that evolution is not contrary to the bible. it's referred to mostly as "theistic evolution", where the seven days aren't literally seven days, but millions or billions of years in time and that evolution did in fact happen (just like you would see in most legit science textbooks). evolution does not talk about origins at all, but just change over time. origins are totally different, and we get into how did they get here in the first place, not evolution, which talks about how we get a lizard from a t-rex. so not all christians believe in what is in this museum, in fact, some reject their argument.

i think the extremists have become ignorant and are so closed minded to anything, example, this museum.

[leekohler]

i know for a fact that there's a whole sect of christians that believe that evolution is not contrary to the bible. it's referred to mostly as "theistic evolution", where the seven days aren't literally seven days, but millions or billions of years in time and that evolution did in fact happen (just like you would see in most legit science textbooks). evolution does not talk about origins at all, but just change over time. origins are totally different, and we get into how did they get here in the first place, not evolution, which talks about how we get a lizard from a t-rex. so not all christians believe in what is in this museum, in fact, some reject their argument.

i think the extremists have become ignorant and are so closed minded to anything, example, this museum.

That view has been around for quite some time. I always thought it was a good way to bridge the gap between the two. Obviously, enough people don't see it that way, this museum got built. :rolleyes:

It's unfortunate that so much time and money was spent on propagating ignorance.

[adroit]

http://studentweb.eku.edu/zachary_lynn/museum/24_hour_days.jpg

LOL, I love how they have to specify that the days were "24 hour days" to rule out the compromise that furcalchick talked about above. :rolleyes:

[atszyman]

LOL, I love how they have to specify that the days were "24 hour days" to rule out the compromise that furcalchick talked about above. :rolleyes:

But how do you define hour? 1 million of our current years? They need to be specified down to the number of vibrations of a cesium atom (or however a second is defined these days). Of course admitting the existence of atoms and other science into the museum might just cause the whole place to implode... logic meets antilogic.

[adroit]

But how do you define hour? 1 million of our current years? They need to be specified down to the number of vibrations of a cesium atom (or however a second is defined these days). Of course admitting the existence of atoms and other science into the museum might just cause the whole place to implode... logic meets antilogic.

Pft, god just changed the frequency of vibration of cesium . . . :p

Someone should make a colour and font matched sticker which defines 1hour = 100,000,000 years and tag it onto that sign :D

[BoyBach]

Oh that is just fantastic. Can they franchise it to Britain? Please? :D


I'd definitely pay it a visit.

[joepunk]

The Bible Theme Park in Orlando Florida beat them to it.

Whatever it is.

[furcalchick]

But how do you define hour? 1 million of our current years? They need to be specified down to the number of vibrations of a cesium atom (or however a second is defined these days). Of course admitting the existence of atoms and other science into the museum might just cause the whole place to implode... logic meets antilogic.

in the theory, it was that our definition of a day wasn't applied, but instead to God's, in where in some theories, God is still at the day of rest.

hope that explains that not all christians are fans of this museum. and if this is by that creationist institute, it's disliked by some. it's like the fundies have become the tailban for us.

[leekohler]

in the theory, it was that our definition of a day wasn't applied, but instead to God's, in where in some theories, God is still at the day of rest.

hope that explains that not all christians are fans of this museum. and if this is by that creationist institute, it's disliked by some. it's like the fundies have become the tailban for us.

They have indeed. I hope that real Christians take them to task for what they've done to Christianity some day.

[IJ Reilly]

An American Taliban. That's a little too easy, and not a very apt analogy, I think.

The cultural and political Right in the U.S. seems to be creating a complete full-service belief support infrastructure. They've got their own radio stations, news sources, books, encyclopedias, schools, and now, even museums -- all dedicated to insuring that they never have to encounter ideas other than theirs. It's a very insular and isolationist state of mind. In a way, they aren't even trying to change the broader national culture any longer -- they seem to be more interested in creating this elaborate network of like-thinking that constantly feeds back what they already believe.

[wongulous]

This makes me so sad to live in the USA.

[obeygiant]

Because we have our own Taliban/al Qaeda, and they feel they're under attack! When really the only thing they have to fear is their own ignorance.


Last time I checked our own "Taliban/al Qaeda" didnt hijack planes and fly them into buildings. Don't confuse TERRORISM with some church group sewing circles that have zero motive and means to blow up anything. Ignorance does NOT equal willful destruction and murder.

[leekohler]

Last time I checked our own "Taliban/al Qaeda" didnt hijack planes and fly them into buildings. Don't confuse TERRORISM with some church group sewing circles that have zero motive and means to blow up anything. Ignorance does NOT equal willful destruction and murder.

Hmm, let's see- but they do bomb abortion clinics and gay bars, not to mention throwing their gay kids out onto the street. I guess that doesn't count in your world.

Ignorance is EXACTLY at the root of such things.

[obeygiant]

they seem to be more interested in creating this elaborate network of like-thinking that constantly feeds back what they already believe.

For a second I thought you were talking about zim20 and others at this forum. :) sorry zim.

[psychofreak]

Ignorance does NOT equal willful destruction and murder.I agree with your main point, but don't forget that ignorance OFTEN brings murder etc.

[psychofreak]

i know for a fact that there's a whole sect of christians that believe that evolution is not contrary to the bible. it's referred to mostly as "theistic evolution", where the seven days aren't literally seven days, but millions or billions of years in time and that evolution did in fact happen (just like you would see in most legit science textbooks). evolution does not talk about origins at all, but just change over time. origins are totally different, and we get into how did they get here in the first place, not evolution, which talks about how we get a lizard from a t-rex. so not all christians believe in what is in this museum, in fact, some reject their argument.

i think the extremists have become ignorant and are so closed minded to anything, example, this museum.So how come God "finished" after the metaphorical 7 days, if evolution hasn't finished?

[atszyman]

So how come God "finished" after the metaphorical 7 days, if evolution hasn't finished?

I think the basic premise is that we were supposed to be the end result of evolution and once we evolved/were created creation was complete, furthere evolution is/was a bonus, put into motion by the creator, but no longer guided by His/Her hand.

Now another way to look at it is that evolution is still happening and we are still working to become the ultimate fruit of creation, then we are not currently on day 7, maybe not even to day 6, it's entirely possible that we are not the beings created in God's image but in fact only a step on the path towards the evolution of that being, that will someday scoff at evolving from such lowly animals as ourselves.

Or yet another way is that the Bible was written thousands of years ago and contains a myth to speculate on how what was known to exist then came to be. It was a good story and was a way to answer the inevitable "why" or "how" questions that gets asked and establish some sort of rules to live by but has no historical or factual basis.

[furcalchick]

So how come God "finished" after the metaphorical 7 days, if evolution hasn't finished?

some say that this is day seven we are in now.

[obeygiant]

Hmm, let's see- but they do bomb abortion clinics and gay bars. I guess that doesn't count in your world.

Okay, if you can compare the THOUSANDS of suicide bombers and terrorist attacks to the few things that you mentioned then don't get mad when some retard claims all homosexuals have HIV or all liberals are communist. Because you are doing the same thing that you dislike about others.

Otherwise I've never seen a creationist bomb an abortion clinic or gay bar.

[obeygiant]

So how come God "finished" after the metaphorical 7 days, if evolution hasn't finished?

It was 6 days.

[atszyman]

some say that this is day seven we are in now.

But if we're in day 7 (the day of rest) shouldn't evolution have stopped?

If evolution is ongoing we are in day 6 at the latest...

[leekohler]

Okay, if you can compare the THOUSANDS of suicide bombers and terrorist attacks to the few things that you mentioned then don't get mad when some retard claims all homosexuals have HIV or all liberals are communist. Because you are doing the same thing that you dislike about others.

I never said "all Christians" bomb gay bars and abortion clinics, but some have. And it's not the reasonable ones doing it, now is it? It's the stupid, ignorant ones. It sure as hell isn't atheists. Your comparison is laughable- I am not saying the same thing as some moron who says all liberals are communists.

And how do you think radical Islamic terrorism started? All at once? No- it was gradual. I'd rather not see that happen to Christianity.

[adroit]

Otherwise I've never seen a creationist bomb an abortion clinic or gay bar.

You sure? There must have been at least one gay bar or abortion clinic in Iraq before george blew it all to crap.

[VoodooDaddy]

I never said "all Christians" bomb gay bars and abortion clinics, but some have. A.


And plenty of atheists/non christians have committed terrible crimes against people, are they excused?

I cannot believe some of the comments you make. The Jerry Falwell = Hitler/Jeff Dahmer, now Christians = Taliban/al Qaeda.

Are you Rosie Odonnel??

[atszyman]

And plenty of atheists/non christians have committed terrible crimes against people, are they excused?

I cannot believe some of the comments you make. The Jerry Falwell = Hitler/Jeff Dahmer, now Christians = Taliban/al Qaeda.

Are you Rosie Odonnel??

He's not saying Christians = Taliban/al Qaeda he's saying Extremist Christians ~ Taliban/al Qaeda.

Although not as bad yet Extremist Christians are a group to watch out for. They're not suicide bombing (yet) but they are starting to become a scary force in politics and their increasing insistence that they are under attack from the media, science, and social liberals could lead to them taking more extreme measures if they start to feel more threatened/cornered.

This thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=235074&highlight=worshiping+bush) had a link to a youtube video clip from a documentary about a group that I would consider scary. At one point in the clip a woman is telling a group of kids "this mean war!" and there are kids talking about risking their lives for Jesus. It almost sounded as though they were training a wave of suicide bombers. I will admit that the clip was probably edited to make it seem more extreme but those two quotes are hard to swallow in any context.

If we want to have a chance at eliminating terrorism in all forms we need to stop referring to it as a war on Islamic Extremists and start realizing that the fight should be against extremists of all types. Extremism in any form can have nasty consequences if the people following it start to feel cornered. The Islamic tag only further reinforces the image that we have something against Muslims in general which does nothing to win hearts and minds of the newer generations of Muslims.

[VoodooDaddy]

He's not saying Christians = Taliban/al Qaeda he's saying Extremist Christians ~ Taliban/al Qaeda.



And what what of this did I not understand?

Because we have our own Taliban/al Qaeda, and they feel they're under attack! When really the only thing they have to fear is their own ignorance.



In the eyes of ppl like this, ALL Christians are extremists.

[SC68Cal]

This is one of the reasons I lay awake at night. It seems hopeless. We're fighting against an avalanche of stupidity with a single shovel of reason. We're getting inundated.

Richard Dawkin's God Delusions isn't helping either. Only on Page 44 and I'm not seeing a light at the end of the tunnel either.

[SC68Cal]

I cannot believe some of the comments you make. The Jerry Falwell = Hitler

He did say that the anti-christ was a Jew who walks among us as we speak. Fat waste of life, too bad there isn't really a hell. He'd be welcomed to the maw.

[hulugu]

An American Taliban. That's a little too easy, and not a very apt analogy, I think.

The cultural and political Right in the U.S. seems to be creating a complete full-service belief support infrastructure. They've got their own radio stations, news sources, books, encyclopedias, schools, and now, even museums -- all dedicated to insuring that they never have to encounter ideas other than theirs. It's a very insular and isolationist state of mind. In a way, they aren't even trying to change the broader national culture any longer -- they seem to be more interested in creating this elaborate network of like-thinking that constantly feeds back what they already believe.

The great echo chamber at its best.

IJ, can you think of a good historical analogy to replace American Taliban?

[solvs]

in the theory, it was that our definition of a day wasn't applied, but instead to God's, in where in some theories, God is still at the day of rest.
If you've ever read Jhonen Vasquez's work, he has an interesting take on the universe in which God is trying to sleep on his big, comfy lounge chair but all of our noise keeps waking him up, which just pisses him off. His assistants are trying to pick up the slack, but they aren't doing such a good job. I mean, I get that he needs to rest after all he's done, but maybe he should check out what's going on with his creations. A lot can happen in a couple of billion of our years.

Last time I checked our own "Taliban/al Qaeda" didnt hijack planes and fly them into buildings. Don't confuse TERRORISM with some church group sewing circles that have zero motive and means to blow up anything. Ignorance does NOT equal willful destruction and murder.
Did you miss the guy who was planning on blowing up protesters at Falwell's funeral? Or the recent abortion clinic bombings? Or David Koresh? Or the Oklahoma City bomber? Or Matthew Shepard's killers? Or the still thriving KKK/Neonazi party and all they do?

In the eyes of ppl like this, ALL Christians are extremists.
No, all Christians aren't like this. Just like all Muslims aren't terrorists. Kinda his point, and I find it interesting that you guys would automatically assume he meant all Christians when calling out the extremists who are like the Taliban/Al Qaeda.

Can't believe I have to point this out, but you guys do know that not all Muslims are terrorists right?

[leekohler]

He's not saying Christians = Taliban/al Qaeda he's saying Extremist Christians ~ Taliban/al Qaeda.

Although not as bad yet Extremist Christians are a group to watch out for. They're not suicide bombing (yet) but they are starting to become a scary force in politics and their increasing insistence that they are under attack from the media, science, and social liberals could lead to them taking more extreme measures if they start to feel more threatened/cornered.

This thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=235074&highlight=worshiping+bush) had a link to a youtube video clip from a documentary about a group that I would consider scary. At one point in the clip a woman is telling a group of kids "this mean war!" and there are kids talking about risking their lives for Jesus. It almost sounded as though they were training a wave of suicide bombers. I will admit that the clip was probably edited to make it seem more extreme but those two quotes are hard to swallow in any context.

If we want to have a chance at eliminating terrorism in all forms we need to stop referring to it as a war on Islamic Extremists and start realizing that the fight should be against extremists of all types. Extremism in any form can have nasty consequences if the people following it start to feel cornered. The Islamic tag only further reinforces the image that we have something against Muslims in general which does nothing to win hearts and minds of the newer generations of Muslims.

Thanks for posting so I can see just what ignorant comments VoodooDaddy is making now, and obviously can't comprehend what he reads.

I NEVER said ALL Christians are extremists! NEVER. You can scream about it all you want, but the fact is, SOME are just as bad as the Taliban in their views. Want proof? Here it is.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr1.htm

According to the Southern Poverty Law Center, Rev. Steven J. Wilkins, is the "pastor of the Auburn Avenue Presbyterian Church in Monroe, La., and a founder and current board member of the neo-Confederate" League of the South (LOS). The LOS is allegedly attempting to take control of conservative churches in the Southern US -- an act that could lead to a schism within the PCA. Wilkins promotes Christian Reconstructionism. Leaders of the Reconstructionist movement advocate that the "death penalty be used to punish those guilty of 'apostasy (abandonment of the faith), heresy, blasphemy, witchcraft, astrology, adultery, 'sodomy or homosexuality,' incest, striking a parent, incorrigible juvenile delinquency, and in the case of women, 'unchastity before marriage.' Non-capital crimes would be sanctioned with whipping, indentured servitude or slavery."

There are plenty of other links on that site as well. I would also encourage you to read this page VoodooDaddy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_reconstructionism

[IJ Reilly]

The great echo chamber at its best.

IJ, can you think of a good historical analogy to replace American Taliban?

Not at the moment -- I'm open to suggestions. The best I can come up with is Luddites, but that's probably even less exact than Taliban. Neo-primitivists? Is there a word for the fear of knowledge and intellectual progress?

[skunk]

Not at the moment -- I'm open to suggestions. The best I can come up with is Luddites, but that's probably even less exact than Taliban. Neo-primitivists? Is there a word for the fear of knowledge and intellectual progress?Bushismo?

[VoodooDaddy]

Thanks for posting so I can see just what ignorant comments VoodooDaddy is making now, and obviously can't comprehend what he reads.



Typical of a person like you. Your opinion is right, anyone contradicting you is wrong, so just ignore them.

[leekohler]

Typical of a person like you. Your opinion is right, anyone contradicting you is wrong, so just ignore them.

I didn't ignore you- I answered you. If you choose to ignore the links I posted for you, that's your business. I backed up my opinion.

[IJ Reilly]

Bushismo?

Best suggestion so far.

In fact, the only suggestion.

[solvs]

Typical of a person like you. Your opinion is right, anyone contradicting you is wrong, so just ignore them.
It's not his fault you're wrong. ;) Some extremist Christians are just as bad as some extremist Muslims. It's not that hard to understand. :confused:

In fact, the only suggestion.
I was trying to think of something clever, but couldn't, so I didn't say anything.

Closest I can find is Prosophobia, (http://aworldamongworlds.wordpress.com/2007/03/27/prosophobia-the-fear-of-progress/) but it's not that funny.

[hulugu]

It's not his fault you're wrong. ;) Some extremist Christians are just as bad as some extremist Muslims. It's not that hard to understand. :confused:


I was trying to think of something clever, but couldn't, so I didn't say anything.

Closest I can find is Prosophobia, (http://aworldamongworlds.wordpress.com/2007/03/27/prosophobia-the-fear-of-progress/) but it's not that funny.

prosophobics.

I like it. Hard to type. Hard to say. ;)
And it smacks of liberal intellgensia.

[solvs]

I like it. Hard to type. Hard to say. ;)
And it smacks of liberal intellgensia.

But it's not that funny.

We need something that sounds phallic. That would be funny. For some reason, equating uptight hypocrites and woefully ignorant anti-intellectuals to penises is funny.

[stillwater]

But it's not that funny.

We need something that sounds phallic. That would be funny. For some reason, equating uptight hypocrites and woefully ignorant anti-intellectuals to penises is funny.

Christo-peckerheads?

[IJ Reilly]

Prosophobia, but it's not that funny.

No, that's good. I learned a new word today -- which I guess means I'm not prosophobic!

And so it goes.

Publisher aims to teach kids right from left

A Torrance executive says he sees too many children's books with liberal views. His titles aim to tilt the shelves the other way.

PUBLISHING executive Eric Jackson's first foray into children's books was a cartoon tale of two brothers and a lemonade stand.

Hoping to earn money for a swing set, young Tommy and Lou squeeze lemons until their little hands ache. But they are thwarted by broccoli-pushing, camera-hogging, Jesus-hating liberals who pile on taxes and regulations and drive the boys out of business.

The book, "Help! Mom! There Are Liberals Under My Bed!," came out two years ago. Jackson said it sold nearly 30,000 copies, which in the publishing world made it a bona fide hit. That success reinforced Jackson's view that the nation's bookshelves had tilted way too far left and that a correction was in order.

Kindergartners these days can leaf through a picture book promoting the virtues of medical marijuana. They can read a fairy tale about two princes who get married — to each other.

But where are the children's books denouncing affirmative action? The fairy tales promoting gun rights?

"You don't hear a lot of umbrage out there about conservative books being foisted onto kids," Jackson said. "There's a need in the market for books that show the other side of the equation."

Jackson's small independent start-up, World Ahead Publishing, staked its first claim on that market with the tale of the rapacious liberals and the lemonade stand, marketed under the imprint Kids Ahead.

Two other (far less successful) cartoon books followed, taking on Hollywood and "activist" judges.

...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-kidbooks1jun01,1,5266243.story

[Queso]

Hoping to earn money for a swing set, young Tommy and Lou squeeze lemons until their little hands ache. But they are thwarted by broccoli-pushing, camera-hogging, Jesus-hating liberals who pile on taxes and regulations and drive the boys out of business.
America gets funnier by the day :D

[leekohler]

No, that's good. I learned a new word today -- which I guess means I'm not prosophobic!

And so it goes.



http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-kidbooks1jun01,1,5266243.story

30,000 copies is successful? Is this article serious?

[atszyman]

Kindergartners these days can leaf through a picture book promoting the virtues of medical marijuana. They can read a fairy tale about two princes who get married — to each other.

What books are these? I must have missed those in building my toddler's library.

[66217]

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr1.htm


Have this Rev. Steven J. Wilkins recieved any support?

No doubt, he is just like many other Muslims.


I think I have another argument to support DP, this guy deserves it.:p

[IJ Reilly]

30,000 copies is successful? Is this article serious?

For a children's book apparently, this is considered a success.

But success is hardly the point. It's just another part of the right wing echo chamber, where the voice you hear is always your own.

[leekohler]

For a children's book apparently, this is considered a success.

Wow- remind me to never write children's books. It sounds even less lucrative than advertising. ;)

[leekohler]

Have this Rev. Steven J. Wilkins recieved any support?

No doubt, he is just like many other Muslims.


I think I have another argument to support DP, this guy deserves it.:p

I didn't look through all the links, but I'm sure he has more than we want to think about. The League of the South is scary enough by itself.

[Queso]

Wow- remind me to never write children's books. It sounds even less lucrative than advertising. ;)
I bet JK Rowling cries herself to sleep every night wondering what could have been.

"If only I'd got a job at Saatchi and Saatchi!!"

:D

[leekohler]

I bet JK Rowling cries herself to sleep every night wondering what could have been.

"If only I'd got a job at Saatchi and Saatchi!!"

:D

Something tells me she's sold more than 30,000 books. ;)

[Queso]

Something tells me she's sold more than 30,000 books. ;)
I wouldn't say that's important. The Tommy and Lou Lemonade Stand Theme Park could one day be a reality. Personally I can't wait to see the film adaptation :cool:

[leekohler]

I wouldn't say that's important. The Tommy and Lou Lemonade Stand Theme Park could one day be a reality. Personally I can't wait to see the film adaptation :cool:

HAHA! That would be the day I left the US

[Queso]

HAHA! That would be the day I left the US
Can you imagine how they'd characterise "The Liberal"? Picture The Child Snatcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

"Lovely brocolli. Who'll buy my lovely brocolli (sales tax applies)?"

:D

[IJ Reilly]

Wow- remind me to never write children's books. It sounds even less lucrative than advertising. ;)

Yeah, but look how easy it is to write a successful children's book! Just to get you started, I've got a suggested title:

Dick and Jane Pray for George Bush

Practically writes itself, doesn't it?

[leekohler]

Yeah, but look how easy it is to write a successful children's book! Just to get you started, I've got a suggested title:

Dick and Jane Pray for George Bush

Practically writes itself, doesn't it?

Wow! It sure does! I've got 10 pages with illustrations in my head already! :D

[zimv20]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/219/526893292_e95eb57c10.jpg?v=0

just like jesus used to ride!!

flickr photo set here (http://www.flickr.com/photos/drjonboyg/sets/72157600301874014/). ars technica fieldtrip account here (http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/ars-takes-a-field-trip-the-creation-museum.ars).

[it5five]

I saw that earlier. I also like the picture of the raptors ignoring Eve and munching on some leaves instead.

It amazes me that anyone actually believes this ********.

[Vidd]

It amazes me that anyone actually believes this ********.

I actually find it frightening that in this day and age, anyone can believe this sort of thing.

[smueboy]

I just found this thread and the Arstechnica story (http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/ars-takes-a-field-trip-the-creation-museum.ars).

I think i'm going to be sick.

[FFTT]

In the beginning, the CHURCH created Truthiness.

[hulugu]

I actually find it frightening that in this day and age, anyone can believe this sort of thing.

People believe in tarot cards and astrology too.

[Vidd]

People believe in tarot cards and astrology too.

Ha, I didn't think of that. At least this has immense proof refuting their claims while you can never really disprove such abstract concepts.

[skunk]

Ha, I didn't think of that. At least this has immense proof refuting their claims while you can never really disprove such abstract concepts.The evidence, let alone the probability, for any of these ludicrous concepts being anything other than pure fantasy is precisely ZERO.

[Vidd]

The evidence, let alone the probability, for any of these ludicrous concepts being anything other than pure fantasy is precisely ZERO.

The point remains that it's easier to say that dinosaurs weren't around with the mythological Adam and Eve.
How do you prove exactly astrology is absolute rubbish (which I know is) beyond points such as the fact that wording is so vague so nearly everyone can relate to it at some level?

[skunk]

How do you prove exactly astrology is absolute rubbish?By demanding the merest shadow of what might be termed "evidence". There is none. The entire subject is nothing but hogwash, as is religion.

[Vidd]

By demanding the merest shadow of what might be termed "evidence". There is none. The entire subject is nothing but hogwash, as is religion.

Although the lack of evidence from their side could be valid evidence for opposition, it still lacks a definite quality.
They could argue that such an abstract concept could not yield evidence in its favour. Again, I'm not suggesting that it is a proper argument for its case but it does seem to prove a less solid base.
Their proof could be, for example, that it always relates to them and is exact. That may be proof enough for them.

[skunk]

They could argue that such an abstract concept could not yield evidence in its favour.Well, they would say that, wouldn't they? But if there is no evidence whatsoever, you might as well study the Flying Spaghetti monster. If your criteria are so easily satisfied that you are willing to be in that group, there really isn't any rational conversation to be had.

[psychofreak]

One argument in favour of religion (that I do not agree with) is that it can help people in certain situations...this is not true at all with astrology...

Although, the first great astronomers were also into astrology...

[skunk]

One argument in favour of religion (that I do not agree with) is that it can help people in certain situationsMany people find comfort in the most extraordinary fantasies. They should keep very quiet.

[Vidd]

Well, they would say that, wouldn't they? But if there is no evidence whatsoever, you might as well study the Flying Spaghetti monster. If your criteria are so easily satisfied that you are willing to be in that group, there really isn't any rational conversation to be had.

I've said more than once that I do not believe in astrology and I did not agree that "evidence" of that sort is sufficient.
All that I argued was that the only proof being the lack of any definite opposing evidence can be a weak stance and not satisfactory in every situation.

[skunk]

I've said more than once that I do not believe in astrologyI am using the word "you" generically. People can believe whatever they want, I just do not wish to have decisions affecting my life and the future of the planet taken on the basis of groundless assumption.

[psychofreak]

Many people find comfort in the most extraordinary fantasies. They should keep very quiet.

I'm agnostic. I take comfort in the fact that there is so much I don't understand, and so I don't have any absolute goal in knowledge. If I felt that someone, somewhere knew everything, it would make me very uncomfortable that I wasn't that person. Because no one is anywhere near knowing everything, and there is so much beyond our knowledge (who knows that the world wasn't created with a tooth-in-cola, like in one episode of The Simpsons) I can learn what interests me and not have a goal per se. Those that are comforted by the idea that they know how the world was made etc, are just fooling themselves.

I hope that made sense, because it looks like a jumbled mess now I read it.

[Vidd]

I am using the word "you" generically. People can believe whatever they want, I just do not wish to have decisions affecting my life and the future of the planet taken on the basis of groundless assumption.

Ah, I thought you were saying that I hadn't been speaking rationally.

I hope that made sense, because it looks like a jumbled mess now I read it.
I understand what you're saying and it does make sense.

Those that are comforted by the idea that they know how the world was made etc, are just fooling themselves.
They might also say, "ignorance is bliss". ;)

[66217]

I believe that as long as you don't harm or disrupt the life of the others, it is okay to believe in whatever you want.

As for this museum, it seems to be a giant waste of money.

Not sure how other christian churches see the Bible, but the Genesis for me is not a word-by-word description of how things where created. It is more a kind of representative language (not exactly like things where). The creation didn't happened in 7 days, and many things the museum say are just far-fetched ideas without a reasonable basis.

The theory of evolution is not against the Bible, because the Bible doesn't says an specific way of how the human beings where created. The only important thing for us catholics is to believe that we are made in the image of god and that we have a soul.

Mmm, not sure I made sense, please tell me if I didn't.

[skunk]

Mmm, not sure I made sense, please tell me if I didn't.No more or less than usual... :)

[.Andy]

The theory of evolution is not against the Bible, because the Bible doesn't says an specific way of how the human beings where created. The only important thing for us catholics is to believe that we are made in the image of god and that we have a soul.
Following from that reasoning (I'm sure you've thought it through at length), what do you take to be the image of god then - (a) A simple replicating molecule from the past or (b) some species in the future that doesn't resemble Homo sapiens in the slightest or (c) an amorphous being in constant flux?

[skunk]

Does god have an appendix?

[Queso]

Following from that reasoning (I'm sure you've thought it through at length), what do you take to be the image of god then - (a) A simple replicating molecule from the past or (b) some species in the future that doesn't resemble Homo sapiens in the slightest or (c) an amorphous being in constant flux?
Something someone once told me was that God is the combination of all the souls of the universe, sitting at the end of time yet able to see all the events of the past through the memories of its constituent parts.

I thought that was quite a nice belief myself. It doesn't allow for sin nor Hell. Everybody and everything just lumped together and fully aware as one being whilst the universe finally closes up on itself.

[psychofreak]

Does god have an appendix?

No

[psychofreak]

I believe that as long as you don't harm or disrupt the life of the others, it is okay to believe in whatever you want.. What about when you pass your ideas who passes their ideas who passes their ideas to someone who does harm to or disrupts the lives of the others. Its happened with most religions throughout history, including Christianity.

[.Andy]

Something someone once told me was that God is the combination of all the souls of the universe, sitting at the end of time yet able to see all the events of the past through the memories of its constituent parts.

I thought that was quite a nice belief myself. It doesn't allow for sin nor Hell. Everybody and everything just lumped together and fully aware as one being whilst the universe finally closes up on itself.
That is a really poetic and sweet notion (and fantastically innocuous). No right and wrong, no absolutes, just everybody culminating experience. If only it were that kind of idea the religionists subscribed to.

[skunk]

Something someone once told me was that God is the combination of all the souls of the universe, sitting at the end of time yet able to see all the events of the past through the memories of its constituent parts.

I thought that was quite a nice belief myself. It doesn't allow for sin nor Hell. Everybody and everything just lumped together and fully aware as one being whilst the universe finally closes up on itself.So god doesn't exist yet?

[.Andy]

So god doesn't exist yet?
No, god exists, in little pieces of soul for sale on ebay.

[Queso]

So god doesn't exist yet?
Well firstly this isn't my personal belief but one related to me in the pub, so don't expect me to have all the details :)

The way I understood it "God" is the final total of all consciousness throughout the life of the entire universe. So God gradually builds over time but only becomes a complete being at the moment of death.

Oh yeah, and because time ends at the end of the universe, God then becomes eternal.

[66217]

Following from that reasoning (I'm sure you've thought it through at length), what do you take to be the image of god then - (a) A simple replicating molecule from the past or (b) some species in the future that doesn't resemble Homo sapiens in the slightest or (c) an amorphous being in constant flux?

We say "image of God" to make reference to the soul. Not that we are image of God physically.

[66217]

What about when you pass your ideas who passes their ideas who passes their ideas to someone who does harm to or disrupts the lives of the others. Its happened with most religions throughout history, including Christianity.

Well, that last guy that harmed someone else is bad, very bad.:)

This does not means the first person was bad, all that all the other persons of that religion are bad.

[66217]

The way I understood it "God" is the final total of all consciousness throughout the life of the entire universe. So God gradually builds over time but only becomes a complete being at the moment of death.


But then how does it all started? Who created the first human being with a part of God in it?

[.Andy]

We say "image of God" to make reference to the soul. Not that we are image of God physically.
Perhaps you could explain this sentence again then;
The only important thing for us catholics is to believe that we are made in the image of god and that we have a soul.

[66217]

Perhaps you could explain this sentence again then;

It is just the same with different words. I made a mistake.:)

[.Andy]

It is just the same with different words. I made a mistake.:)
You made a mistake about the only thing important to you Catholics -ouch :p! I expect three hail mary's are in order Roco ;).

[66217]

You made a mistake about the only thing important to you Catholics -ouch :p! I expect three hail mary's are in order Roco ;).

:D

*kicking myself with a bowling ball till' it hurts*

[solvs]

People believe in tarot cards and astrology too.
Yeah, but not many that seriously. It's more of a joke or game. I read my horoscope occasionally, but I don't live my life by it. And we used to read each others tarot cards in high school. Again, just playing.

When they start making tarot card museums and a majority of the electorate are astrologists, then we could compare.

what do you take to be the image of god then
Consciousness.

Allegorical representation, not literal translation.

[stillwater]

I think this museum sums up the whole problem with religion. Blindly following arbitrary and often conflicting rules from some old book, instead of thinking for yourself.

In a world without god, people have to learn right from wrong on their own and together as a community. I think religious people are afraid of that. They are more comfortable just being told what's right and what's not.

Many years ago, I was listening to Laura Schlessinger on the radio. She told this female caller to dump her atheist boyfriend because he only chose to be a moral person instead of being "commanded by God". I don't buy the idea that without God, someone can just suddenly change from good to evil by simply deciding to. Not believing in God doesn't automatically make one a sociopath.

[FFTT]

You can believe in a higher power without falling for the divisive and often manipulative teachings of organized religion.

[takao]

Yeah, but not many that seriously. It's more of a joke or game. I read my horoscope occasionally, but I don't live my life by it. And we used to read each others tarot cards in high school. Again, just playing.

When they start making tarot card museums and a majority of the electorate are astrologists, then we could compare.


you know why it took so long to take away the planet status from Pluto ? believe it or not: the astrology lobby tried to prevent it (through threatening cutting funds for astronomers)

after all cutting away a planet kinda showed how random the astrology calculations were ;)

[Queso]

But then how does it all started? Who created the first human being with a part of God in it?
It's a good question and unfortunately one I cannot answer. If I ever bump into the lady again I will be sure to ask her on your behalf :)

[solvs]

believe it or not: the astrology lobby tried to prevent it

Yes, but look at how successful they were at that. ;)

[hulugu]

Something someone once told me was that God is the combination of all the souls of the universe, sitting at the end of time yet able to see all the events of the past through the memories of its constituent parts.

Whoa! You just blew my mind.

[joepunk]

Kentucky's creation museum—Answers in Genesis—is seeking baristas. Qualified applicants must believe that first lattes were made with dinosaur milk and provide AIG with…

• Resume
• Salvation testimony
• Creation belief statement

LINK (http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/jobs/employment.asp?aigHomeCountry=United+States&aigEvents=United+States&aigBookstore=United+States#barista)

[zimv20]

• Creation belief statement

ummm... discriminatory hiring practices?

[Ugg]

ummm... discriminatory hiring practices?

bushco has ensured that religious organizations can discriminate to their heart's content.

[kainjow]

Sorry for bringing back an old thread...

I went to the creation museum in Cincinnati a few weeks ago with some friends. One of the main reasons we went was because Ken Ham was going to be speaking. He's (I guess?) a famous creationist, but the website had incorrect information so we were unable to see him.

It was expensive ($22), so I was a bit hesitant, but we went anyways. We thought we were going to see some evidence for creationism but it was mostly just bashing man's use of reason. One of the first rooms you walked through was literally comparing our ability to think rationally vs the Bible.

As you walked through it was mostly animatronics and short clips playing on LCDs. No real substance. Near the end they had a lot of information on the flood, which was about the most evidence they provided.

Anyways, it was entertaining, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, even Christians.

[iBlue]

^ Thanks for the info, that is interesting to hear, though I am hardly surprised it was lacking any substance but that of bashing the other side. These are pretty contrasting principles.

[chilipie]

As you walked through it was mostly animatronics and short clips playing on LCDs. No real substance. Near the end they had a lot of information on the flood, which was about the most evidence they provided.

Gotta love the use of useful things provided by science to try and discount science :rolleyes:

Thank you though, was interesting to hear about it first-hand :)

[buffalo]

I live about 25 minutes away from the museum. Never been there myself, and I have no real desire to. It is doing quite well on its own though, unlike Cincinnati's Underground Railroad Freedom Center...

[bobber205]

If I think about this anymore, I may die from a brain seg fault. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segmentation_fault)

[rdowns]

I found myself watching that show on TLC about that nut job family with 17 (now 18) kids. They went to the museum on the show. I was screaming at my TV listening to all the crap the museum guide was spouting. :rolleyes:

[leekohler]

Sorry for bringing back an old thread...

I went to the creation museum in Cincinnati a few weeks ago with some friends. One of the main reasons we went was because Ken Ham was going to be speaking. He's (I guess?) a famous creationist, but the website had incorrect information so we were unable to see him.

It was expensive ($22), so I was a bit hesitant, but we went anyways. We thought we were going to see some evidence for creationism but it was mostly just bashing man's use of reason. One of the first rooms you walked through was literally comparing our ability to think rationally vs the Bible.

As you walked through it was mostly animatronics and short clips playing on LCDs. No real substance. Near the end they had a lot of information on the flood, which was about the most evidence they provided.

Anyways, it was entertaining, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone, even Christians.

Umm...hello! You didn't expect it to be anything but a propaganda machine did you? Did you feel like IQ points were being ripped out of your head while inside? I don't think I could have gone there. It's so frightening.

Maybe for Halloween, if I need a good scare.

[joepunk]

I saw all I needed to see of the museum in Bill Maher's Religious film.

[.Andy]

One of the main reasons we went was because Ken Ham was going to be speaking.
He's one of ours. Australian intellectuals mixing it on the world stage :o.

[kainjow]

Umm...hello! You didn't expect it to be anything but a propaganda machine did you? Did you feel like IQ points were being ripped out of your head while inside? I don't think I could have gone there. It's so frightening.

I expected some kind of substantial evidence I could walk away with since they were calling it a "museum", but no, it wasn't there. Yes it was mostly propaganda which is to be assumed.

The part where they were pretty much saying "trust the Bible and don't doubt" was when I felt like I was losing IQ points ;)

Like I said, the main reason the group went was to see the guy speak, but the main reason I wanted to go was because there were some guys with PhDs in physics who went and they were strong Evolutionists but also Christian, so I just wanted to hear the conversation.

[leekohler]

I expected some kind of substantial evidence I could walk away with since they were calling it a "museum", but no, it wasn't there. Yes it was mostly propaganda which is to be assumed.

The part where they were pretty much saying "trust the Bible and don't doubt" was when I felt like I was losing IQ points ;)

Like I said, the main reason the group went was to see the guy speak, but the main reason I wanted to go was because there were some guys with PhDs in physics who went and they were strong Evolutionists but also Christian, so I just wanted to hear the conversation.

I'm sorry you didn't get to have the conversation. I'm sure that would have been very interesting to post here.