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mymemory
Jun 27, 2003, 02:57 PM
My older brother got a PC for my mother and he hook it up to my network, I have my 3 Powerbooks + the "crapper" now connected to a Link Sys DSL router.

Now, yesterday I sat in fron of the PC for first time trying to make it work with the rest the computer and being able to acces the files, etc.

The computer is using XP and the menues are so bad conceive, no way I could make it work after 2 hours, allways going in random. The computer was in Spanish and I tryed to turned in to English and nothing. Just a buch of funny icons that didn't take me any where, every icon had an explanation but forget about it.

I mean, to install a network between computers is not something that my mom can do but I shuld be able too. No wonder there are PC technicians or every body that manage a PC has a degree in cmputer science. M***** wants to make the friendly but it is imposible, I bet the only user friendly application is Solitarie and that is why everybody is using it.

Damn, Macs areway too advance for the PC people to understand. No wonder the world is falling appart, people like cheap and complicated things that will not resolve anything.

Once again, when I paid big $$$ for my Mac I know that money is going some where and I'm receiving the benefits.

altivec 2003
Jun 27, 2003, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by mymemory
My older brother got a PC for my mother and he hook it up to my network, I have my 3 Powerbooks + the "crapper" now connected to a Link Sys DSL router.

Now, yesterday I sat in fron of the PC for first time trying to make it work with the rest the computer and being able to acces the files, etc.

The computer is using XP and the menues are so bad conceive, no way I could make it work after 2 hours, allways going in random. The computer was in Spanish and I tryed to turned in to English and nothing. Just a buch of funny icons that didn't take me any where, every icon had an explanation but forget about it.

I mean, to install a network between computers is not something that my mom can do but I shuld be able too. No wonder there are PC technicians or every body that manage a PC has a degree in cmputer science. M***** wants to make the friendly but it is imposible, I bet the only user friendly application is Solitarie and that is why everybody is using it.

Damn, Macs areway too advance for the PC people to understand. No wonder the world is falling appart, people like cheap and complicated things that will not resolve anything.

Once again, when I paid big $$$ for my Mac I know that money is going some where and I'm receiving the benefits.

I agree with you 100%, but you might have a little arguement with some of the pc users out there.....

One thing that really annoys me is that the teachers at my school (well, atleast we had macs at the time) would not know anything about computers and blame it on the macs. I would see them going through very elaborate procedures just to save a file or hide a window, while exclaiming "i HATE macs". Well, Number 1. They were using microsoft word ;) Number 2. There are so many easy ways to do what they are doing but they are used to their pc and don't think about what is logical and what isn't. Hmmmmmm....... a little theme occuring in microsoft programmers i see...... It just makes me so mad when these people bad-mouth things that they know nothing about. Atleast I know somethings about peecees even though i would certainly not claim myself to be an expert. Oh well, ignorant people will be ignorant people and crappy os's will be crappy os's. I guess i should just be happy that i have my mac (which is a little shabby at 533 mgz but still chugging along. Cant wait tilll i can afford a new g5 or maybe a powerbook).

Independence
Jun 27, 2003, 04:10 PM
its not impossible to get windows xp running on a network. i can accomplish a task like that in less than 5 minutes. im fairly certain the error lies between the keyboard and the chair. just because you cant use an operating system as pathetically simple as windows xp doesn't mean the computer itself is bad. if you dont like windows then dont use windows. maybe you'd like to try linux?

Damn, Macs areway too advance for the PC people to understand.
pop open a mac and pop open a pc. they look the same on the inside. if you find some alien technology inside a mac, you come and tell me. and i'll just let you know that i currently use a pc. if i take a look at the inside of a pc or a mac, im fairly certain i can point out and identify its components.

No wonder the world is falling appart, people like cheap and complicated things that will not resolve anything.
no, the world is falling apart because of corrupt politicians and religious fanatics.

edesignuk
Jun 27, 2003, 04:33 PM
Don't complain about PC's because you don't know who to use them. I have 5 PC's & my PowerMac all connected to a Linksys cable/DSL router with NO problems at all, and it was just as easy to setup in Windows as it was OS X.
It's opionions like this that make the PC world hate Mac users :rolleyes: Just because you don't know how to do something doesn't mean it's a hard thing to do.

G3-Pwnz-G4
Jun 27, 2003, 06:46 PM
yea, pc people think macs suck because they have no idea how to use em, and mac people think pcs suck because they dun know how to use em.

i personally use win98 and osx on a regular basis, and although i REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY like osx better, getting win98 to work isn't a completely impossible task....

ZildjianKX
Jun 27, 2003, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by edesignuk
Don't complain about PC's because you don't know who to use them. I have 5 PC's & my PowerMac all connected to a Linksys cable/DSL router with NO problems at all, and it was just as easy to setup in Windows as it was OS X.
It's opionions like this that make the PC world hate Mac users :rolleyes: Just because you don't know how to do something doesn't mean it's a hard thing to do.

Words from a smart mac user :)

ibookin'
Jun 27, 2003, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by edesignuk
Don't complain about PC's because you don't know who to use them. I have 5 PC's & my PowerMac all connected to a Linksys cable/DSL router with NO problems at all, and it was just as easy to setup in Windows as it was OS X.
It's opionions like this that make the PC world hate Mac users :rolleyes: Just because you don't know how to do something doesn't mean it's a hard thing to do.

I completely agree. While I much prefer my Macs over my PCs for a variety of reasons, the PCs aren't any harder to perform hardware maitnence on. I open my PC and I have to stick the same kind of RAM into the same kind of DIMM slots, the same kind of hard drive plugged into the same kind of cable and bus, etc.

tazo
Jun 27, 2003, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by G3-Pwnz-G4
yea, pc people think macs suck because they have no idea how to use em, and mac people think pcs suck because they dun know how to use em.

i personally use win98 and osx on a regular basis, and although i REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY like osx better, getting win98 to work isn't a completely impossible task....

I do concur :)

I mean I got a wireless basestation and WiFi card up and running for my dad's compaq evo in about 10 min. but that was because for 5 minutes my dad was hovering over my shoulder ;)

maradong
Jun 28, 2003, 01:29 AM
Originally posted by mymemory
My older brother got a PC for my mother and he hook it up to my network, I have my 3 Powerbooks + the "crapper" now connected to a Link Sys DSL router.

Now, yesterday I sat in fron of the PC for first time trying to make it work with the rest the computer and being able to acces the files, etc.

The computer is using XP and the menues are so bad conceive, no way I could make it work after 2 hours, allways going in random. The computer was in Spanish and I tryed to turned in to English and nothing. Just a buch of funny icons that didn't take me any where, every icon had an explanation but forget about it.

I mean, to install a network between computers is not something that my mom can do but I shuld be able too. No wonder there are PC technicians or every body that manage a PC has a degree in cmputer science. M***** wants to make the friendly but it is imposible, I bet the only user friendly application is Solitarie and that is why everybody is using it.

Damn, Macs areway too advance for the PC people to understand. No wonder the world is falling appart, people like cheap and complicated things that will not resolve anything.

Once again, when I paid big $$$ for my Mac I know that money is going some where and I'm receiving the benefits.

let s say windows is a crazzy os. Pc hardware is just wonderful, if you got a nice os, nothing is making problems, ( if you ve chosen your components carefully )

solvs
Jun 28, 2003, 02:27 AM
Hey, give the kid a break. At least he's tried to use Windows and isn't just talking badly about something he's never used (like most Windows users talking about Macs).

His point is completely valid. You shouldn't have to have a degree to work this stuff. It should just work. Not that Apples' always do, but it IS easier most of the time. I am A+ certified. I know a lot about PCs and Windows (if I do say so myself) having built, used, and worked on many myself. I've also used quite a few Macs. In my experiance, and in my opinion, Macs are superior.

You may feel differently, but that's you're right. Don't bag on the kid for having an opinion. He is right, in the fact that you have to know how to do these things on a PC, but they just seem to work on a Mac.

Your experiances may vary.

Edit: Oh yeah, and networking in Windows IS a nightmare.

shadowfax
Jun 28, 2003, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by edesignuk
Don't complain about PC's because you don't know who to use them. I have 5 PC's & my PowerMac all connected to a Linksys cable/DSL router with NO problems at all, and it was just as easy to setup in Windows as it was OS X.
It's opionions like this that make the PC world hate Mac users :rolleyes: Just because you don't know how to do something doesn't mean it's a hard thing to do. i got a mac on a wireless linksys router with my airport card and 2 PCs on it. one of them is even a win98 box! they are so easy to hook up. the windows XP box i have got onto the internet all by itself the moment i had finished installing XP. granted, some networking on windows is downright nasty, but this is about as rare as it is on macs. you have a DHCP router and you can't get it to hook up. that's outrageous man!

Chimaera
Jun 28, 2003, 03:13 AM
Please, windows networking *used* to be a nightmare (joys of Win9x there) but the NT-series OS's have always been extremely simple to network (NT, 2k and XP). As someone else said, don't confuse your inability to accomplish a task (which is entirely understandable if its the first time you've used the OS) with the OS being obtuse - you've run into exactly the problem PC users have when they use a mac - its an entirely different experience, with very few similarities and for a while they flounder while they try to accomplish things that are second nature on their home platform.

RandomDeadHead
Jun 28, 2003, 03:44 AM
no, the world is falling apart because of corrupt politicians and religious fanatics.


man, we think a lot alike:D

Roger1
Jun 28, 2003, 07:59 AM
At work I have set up Windows machines from Win95 to XP, and I personally thing XP was a pain to set up on the network (it was the home version using the cartoon screen). Once I figured it out it worked, but I felt it was too complicated for what I wanted. Now, Win2000 Pro is a little complicated to set up on a network, but not nearly as bad as XP.

So there might be some user error here, but I can understand why.

jeffosx
Jun 28, 2003, 08:38 AM
I think networking in XP is so much improved over previous incarnations. The major one is the lack of a reboot everytime you changed the simplest thing...

I did have to use my mac to set up the wireless however as I couldnt get to it from XP and use the mac help in the pref pane to allow me to login to my mac from XP as it never appeared in Network Neighbourhood...

Overall though much improved in XP.

amnesiac1984
Jun 28, 2003, 10:45 AM
The main problems I have is accessing the mac from a PC.

My housemates all had XP and I just don't get how to get them too see me.

Back here at home some peeps came over from canada to stay with a gateway laptop. They had tons of pics we wanted to get on ym dads TiBook and my MDD. No matter what I tried, turning on sharing, following instructions in the help and jsut trying to find every possible network related settng there was I couldn't get the gateway to show up on the network. SMB sharing was on on all macs and the connect to dialogue box showed the workgroups n stuff but no gateway PC in sight. Eventually I jsut set up an FTP server on the TI and uploaded from the Gateway. Sorta Sucks really.

MarksEvilTwin
Jun 28, 2003, 10:46 AM
Removed

mymemory
Jun 28, 2003, 11:39 AM
The DSL is not a problem, the networking is and I'm not talking about hardware.

When I got OSX the network was set up itself basically. Using the same experience I should be able to create a network in a windows environment just by finding the same components in the system, but the entire thing is such mess! everything is truncated, they want to make it look "silly" with all those colors and explanations but obviously you will need to call some one with a lot of experience. I mean, with my experience should do.

Now, if creating a net work is such easy task... tell me the steps to do it successfully, the PC to the Mac network using the Linksys.

I'm waiting...

Schiffi
Jun 28, 2003, 07:05 PM
Ugh, I'm having a boring summer. When I had a PC I was always performing mantenance and such. I was always busy. Now that I got a Mac, I'm completely without anything to do. I used to build my PCs but this Mac has had nothing that needs to be serviced! Stupid Apple making things so easy. I think I'm just going to just delete random system files and pretend I'm on XP.

e-coli
Jun 28, 2003, 07:30 PM
The only problem with PC's on a network is that they suck up most of the bandwidth doing whatever the heck they do all day. Our network speed dropped by 50% when we put a windows machine on it.

And, yes, they are extremely difficult for the average user to set up.

jeffosx
Jun 28, 2003, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by amnesiac1984
The main problems I have is accessing the mac from a PC.

My housemates all had XP and I just don't get how to get them too see me.

Back here at home some peeps came over from canada to stay with a gateway laptop. They had tons of pics we wanted to get on ym dads TiBook and my MDD. No matter what I tried, turning on sharing, following instructions in the help and jsut trying to find every possible network related settng there was I couldn't get the gateway to show up on the network. SMB sharing was on on all macs and the connect to dialogue box showed the workgroups n stuff but no gateway PC in sight. Eventually I jsut set up an FTP server on the TI and uploaded from the Gateway. Sorta Sucks really.

X is better than os9 but still takes one piece in the puzzle to share files with windows from the PC to mac. You have to enable windows login in the accounts setting. This can only be done when you set up the account or changed when that user is not logged in. To cahnge your settings create a new account, login and change the setting for the other user. When you enable windows filesharing it will tell you what to type in the browse box in windows network connection.

To see the PC make sure the folder is shared and then connect to server command-Kwith the IP address of the PC. via smb://IP address

I had to put in a user name and no password but this depends upon your PC fileshare security settings as it may be protected with passwords etc.

HTH

reflex
Jun 29, 2003, 04:40 AM
Originally posted by MarksEvilTwin
But i swear, in the time that he has spent over the last several years trying to get these computers to successfully share files, i could have invented cold fusion.

Then why didn't you? :D

edesignuk
Jun 29, 2003, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by mymemory
The DSL is not a problem, the networking is and I'm not talking about hardware.

When I got OSX the network was set up itself basically. Using the same experience I should be able to create a network in a windows environment just by finding the same components in the system, but the entire thing is such mess! everything is truncated, they want to make it look "silly" with all those colors and explanations but obviously you will need to call some one with a lot of experience. I mean, with my experience should do.

Now, if creating a net work is such easy task... tell me the steps to do it successfully, the PC to the Mac network using the Linksys.

I'm waiting...
If you are using DHCP, then he XP box should have just got itself an address (Network settings are set to DHCP automatically during setup).
If not, then simply go to Control Panel > Network Connections, right click on your network adapter, and select Properties, select Internet Protocol (TCP/IP), and hit Properties, and there you can change your IP settings to what ever you wish. Doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist :rolleyes:

shadowfax
Jun 29, 2003, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by mymemory
Now, if creating a net work is such easy task... tell me the steps to do it successfully, the PC to the Mac network using the Linksys.

I'm waiting... you know, the funny thing about this is, a "network" is created when you have them all plugged in. assuming that you have everything on default settings. if you've turned off DHCP on your router, turn it back on, or reset the thing. don't go trying to set subnet masks and IPs yourself. that's asinine. now, on your PC, you should be on the network and browsing the internet. if not, you need to go into the network settings and set TCP/IP to obtain IP address automatically, which it should have already been unless you changed something, or someone else did. now you might need to go to IE and click tools->internet options->connections and make sure it is set to use the LAN as the internet connection. if your internet doesn't work, there is a hardware failure or a driver problem.

that done, you need to configure your mac for windows file sharing and to share its own files (if that's what you want). now in finder on the mac, if you want to connect to PC, you hit cmd-k to log on to a server, and then find your PC in the list (may need to drop it down), or you can enter it like this: smb://your.PC's.IP.Address it should log on in a second, and give you a menu for which folder on the PC you want to mount over the network. i've done it a thousand times with my PC box ;)

5300cs
Jun 29, 2003, 08:15 AM
My XP machine was painless to setup, much to my astonishment. As much as I hate the whole windows family, (well, M$ actually) I found it much easier to setup than 95, 98 & ME.
Slightly off topic: one thing I liked that started with Win2k was that when a network cable came unplugged, it popped-up a little info bubble letting you know. Would still like to see that on the Mac.

shadowfax
Jun 29, 2003, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by 5300cs
Slightly off topic: one thing I liked that started with Win2k was that when a network cable came unplugged, it popped-up a little info bubble letting you know. Would still like to see that on the Mac. i like how the connection icon gets an x over it, but the popup notification is just plain annoying. i use airport on my mac, and keep that up in the menubar, so i pretty well no when it keels over. it is too bad they don't have a status indicator for wired connections (i thought they did but don't seem to see it)

Sabenth
Jun 29, 2003, 08:26 AM
that little bubble that the last post talks about is a great idea problem is mine wouldnt stop poping up its only though x that i found out what the real problem was.. Networking windows xp is a bit of a pain in the fact that the vast cases the windows machine dosnt see the Mac at all were as the mac machine bless it can see everying and anything yo though at it wish my xp machine would do the same sadly the pc hardrive just packed in and well iam not sure i want to put a new one in .... oh well M$ LOSS NOT MINE...


might by a hard drive in and use linux...

Had my MAC FOR 5 DAYS NOW YAYYYYYYYY AND ITS WAYYYYY BETTER THAN ANY M$ thing i love the apple script stuff just learning right now... ahhh fantastic machines ....

cubist
Jun 29, 2003, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Independence
... pop open a mac and pop open a pc. they look the same on the inside. if you find some alien technology inside a mac, you come and tell me. ...


On the first paragraph, I disagree with you strongly. Open a PC, and you see a big tangle of ribbon cables - even from factory-produced machines like Dell's. Open an Mac (or a Sun), and you see what is known in the industry as cable management. It's a mark of quality in design. I have seen very few PCs with any attention given to cable management at all.

Independence
Jun 29, 2003, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by cubist
On the first paragraph, I disagree with you strongly. Open a PC, and you see a big tangle of ribbon cables - even from factory-produced machines like Dell's. Open an Mac (or a Sun), and you see what is known in the industry as cable management. It's a mark of quality in design. I have seen very few PCs with any attention given to cable management at all.
i wasn't referring to hardware arrangement.

benixau
Jun 29, 2003, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by edesignuk

If not, then simply go to Control Panel > Network Connections, right click on your network adapter, and select Properties, select Internet Protocol (TCP/IP), and hit Properties, and there you can change your IP settings to what ever you wish. Doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist :rolleyes:

Where is control panel?
What does it look like?
Right click? I got a five button mouse, which one is right?
Which network adapter am i using?

on mac:
Click on light switch in dock at bottom of screen.
Go to network
Enter Information (make sure if manual you include DNS -> windows needs this too)
Click apply
Open IE or Safari.


hmmm what seems simpler.

edesignuk
Jun 29, 2003, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by benixau
Where is control panel?
What does it look like?
Right click? I got a five button mouse, which one is right?
Which network adapter am i using?

on mac:
Click on light switch in dock at bottom of screen.
Go to network
Enter Information (make sure if manual you include DNS -> windows needs this too)
Click apply
Open IE or Safari.


hmmm what seems simpler.
If you have used Windows then you know where the Control Panel is, you use it to control every aspect of your system, the likely-hood is you will only have one network adapter, if you don't know which is your right mouse button then you are just plain dumb :rolleyes: Sheesh!

It is not a hard thing to do!

shadowfax
Jun 29, 2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by benixau
Where is control panel?
What does it look like?
Right click? I got a five button mouse, which one is right?
Which network adapter am i using? you don't deserve to breath. :p you are acting stupid to prove a really really tenuous point, and it's quite frankly ************. it's not that much harder to make a network run in windows XP. control panel is very similar in design to system preferences, it kind of looks like it, it's available right from the start menu, you can configure everything by left clicking. don't act like you have an IQ of 70 ;)

Rower_CPU
Jun 29, 2003, 02:47 PM
Easy on the personal attacks, guys.

reflex
Jun 29, 2003, 03:07 PM
Originally posted by Sabenth
Networking windows xp is a bit of a pain in the fact that the vast cases the windows machine dosnt see the Mac at all were as the mac machine bless it can see everying and anything

This has always seemed as more of a mac problem to me than one in Windows. Especially since it doesn't look like you can set a workgroup for smb networking in OSX.

edesignuk
Jun 29, 2003, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by reflex
Especially since it doesn't look like you can set a workgroup for smb networking in OSX.
U can, it's just well hidden :rolleyes:

cubist
Jun 29, 2003, 03:29 PM
The SMB workgroup name is configurable in Applications/Utilities/Directory Management.

It is much more difficult seeing Macs from Windows machines than the other way around. In fact, it can be a little painful seeing Windows machines from other Windows machines, especially if they are different versions of Windows. SMB is a moving target because Microsoft keeps changing it, as they keep changing everything else.

As for the cable management question, poor cable management is symptomatic of poor design, poor workmanship. Of course the components are the same. To make an analogy, a Trabant has the same basic components as a Rolls-Royce. That does not mean the Trabant is as well-made.

Das
Jun 29, 2003, 03:47 PM
Are there people alive who still have problems with running windows? I mean, you would literally have to have some learning disability to not be able to work a mac or a PC. If you do have a massive problem operating them, then find another type of computer that you might be able to use. (http://www.hasbro.com/pl/page.viewproduct/product_id.8725/dn/default.cfm)

edesignuk
Jun 29, 2003, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Das
If you do have a massive problem operating them, then find another type of computer that you might be able to use. (http://www.hasbro.com/pl/page.viewproduct/product_id.8725/dn/default.cfm)
LMAO! :D :p

shadowfax
Jun 29, 2003, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by Das
Are there people alive who still have problems with running windows? I mean, you would literally have to have some learning disability to not be able to work a mac or a PC. If you do have a massive problem operating them, then find another type of computer that you might be able to use. (http://www.hasbro.com/pl/page.viewproduct/product_id.8725/dn/default.cfm) i really agree. i laugh at people who go from macs to PCs for the simplicity. that wasn't why i switched. i still know windows backwards and forwards. i just don't like it. that was hilarious, man. :)

amnesiac1984
Jun 29, 2003, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by Shadowfax
i really agree. i laugh at people who go from macs to PCs for the simplicity. that wasn't why i switched. i still know windows backwards and forwards. i just don't like it. that was hilarious, man. :)

Yeah but getting to know windows backwards and forwards is a lot tougher than getting to know macs. And not everyone wants to have to learn windows forwards and backwards. Why laugh at people who decide to go for simplicity? Thats like laughing at the whole reason why people choose macs over PCs and laughing at the whole basic concept that the Mac is built on, simplicity. The only reason why I don't know how to use windows is cos I never use it. And I really don't give a **** about learning either.

G3-Pwnz-G4
Jun 29, 2003, 07:00 PM
well, osx is just as easy to set up as any windows os. like somebody said, if you have it set up to DHCP it just automatically grabs it and your good to go. i personally have mine set up to manual just because i like the freedom of changing my IP at will :D

benixau
Jun 29, 2003, 07:39 PM
Originally posted by Shadowfax
you don't deserve to breath. :p you are acting stupid to prove a really really tenuous point, and it's quite frankly ************. it's not that much harder to make a network run in windows XP. control panel is very similar in design to system preferences, it kind of looks like it, it's available right from the start menu, you can configure everything by left clicking. don't act like you have an IQ of 70 ;)

you guys have never met mu mom have you? sure i can do this stuff - but i am geek and should be able to.
The thing is that even in XP i had to do it.

Computer illiterate people do not want to have to learn to much just to use cable internet (static IP for us). I told mu mom that all her sttings were in the network adapter under the control panel and she didnt know where she was going. So i told her to go to the control panel and she took the two minutes it took me to finish up, to find it and open it.

Windows need you to learn. Also, the control panel is very very badly organised. The names of the fisher price screen (FPC) controls do not acurately enough reflect what they do.

On the other hand, i had to help mu mom only once for the mac (my lil bros.) -> she did not know which port the network cable should go in.

now really, mu mom is the sort of person who wants a computer for simple things. My DP pMac does the 'real' work. Her eMac is a dream to run (we upped it to 640 via 3rd party RAM).

Our PC has always had problems.

Aside: After using a mac most of the time now days, whenever i go back to windows i get frustrated. not cause i cant do it but because things seem illogical. The mac on the other hand came like second nature when i got it after using windows for four years.

I know which is simpler.

5300cs
Jun 29, 2003, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by Sabenth
that little bubble that the last post talks about is a great idea problem is mine wouldnt stop poping up its only though x that i found out what the real problem was..

Yeah, I was going to mention that. Click on the X and the windows closes, click on the bubble itself and it opens. In Win2k it was nice, in XP it pops up a bubble for every little thing- not surprised that M$ killed what could've been a good thing :rolleyes:

shadowfax
Jun 29, 2003, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by benixau
you guys have never met mu mom have you? sure i can do this stuff - but i am geek and should be able to.
The thing is that even in XP i had to do it.

Computer illiterate people do not want to have to learn to much just to use cable internet (static IP for us). I told mu mom that all her sttings were in the network adapter under the control panel and she didnt know where she was going. So i told her to go to the control panel and she took the two minutes it took me to finish up, to find it and open it.

Windows need you to learn. Also, the control panel is very very badly organised. The names of the fisher price screen (FPC) controls do not acurately enough reflect what they do.

On the other hand, i had to help mu mom only once for the mac (my lil bros.) -> she did not know which port the network cable should go in.

now really, mu mom is the sort of person who wants a computer for simple things. My DP pMac does the 'real' work. Her eMac is a dream to run (we upped it to 640 via 3rd party RAM).

Our PC has always had problems.

Aside: After using a mac most of the time now days, whenever i go back to windows i get frustrated. not cause i cant do it but because things seem illogical. The mac on the other hand came like second nature when i got it after using windows for four years.

I know which is simpler. who's mu mom? is that some kind of tech joke? at any rate, DSL/Cable is really easy to set up. most situations i find where there are problems would also be so on a mac. people do have headaches with them too. the control panel is certainly not as well organized, but for god's sake, RTFM. there are help ddocuments that spell things out just fine. it really does work. in most networking cases, an XP PC will "just work" too. there may be more cases where it won't than on the mac, but it's not that much worse. not enough to bitch about.