A Clockwork Orange

[Jasonbot]

I've finished reading the book and recently watched the movie and was just thinking how much of a cult classic it is. The book and movie tie in quite well bar a few things but the thing that really ticks me off is the awkward, almost tacky settings in the movie vs. what I had imagined in the book. Has anyone else 'round here read/watched the movie/book. I realise it's old but it is a classic right?

[sushi]

Not sure about A Clockwork Orange.

But I think your equation is incorrect:

x^2+4=0
x^2=-4
x=±2

-2 or 2 squared is 4.

4 does not equal -4.

You answer would be correct if the equation was:

x^2-4=0
x^2=4
x=±2

Of course I could be missing something.

[Blue Velvet]

I watched this a few weeks ago for the umpteenth time and have also read the book, but that was some time ago. I believe that the main themes of the novel are well-reflected in Kubrick's film but the ending of the film is a little ambivalent... can't remember how the book ends, but apparently there are are a number of different version in print, some with a missing chapter (21).

You have to remember that it was filmed some time ago, that was a pretty standard portrayal of what the 'future' could potentially look like with the added Kubrick twists from the perspective of late 60's-early 70's.

In later years, Anthony Burgess and Stanley Kubrick fell out over a number of issues, according to Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Orange_%28film%29#Anthony_Burgess.27s_response

[Jasonbot]

Not sure about A Clockwork Orange.

But I think your equation is incorrect:

x^2+4=0
x^2=-4
x=±2

-2 or 2 squared is 4.

4 does not equal -4.

You answer would be correct if the equation was:

x^2-4=0
x^2=4
x=±2

Of course I could be missing something.


I just noted that. See, I was doing some maths and thought it time for a new sig. I changed it after realising my error. :(

[sushi]

I just noted that. See, I was doing some maths and thought it time for a new sig. I changed it after realising my error. :(
Ah, I see.

Of course you could always use some imaginary (i) numbers.

[Jasonbot]

Ah, I see.

Of course you could always use some imaginary (i) numbers.

Ya, Ill do an equation now...

x^2=-4
x=4i ?? Is it 4i or 2i
root -4 to teh power of 2 =4 right?

Anyways, anyone here actually read the book? Or are macrumorers all viddying vonny creeches.

[mduser63]

Ya, Ill do an equation now...

x^2=-4
x=4i ?? Is it 4i or 2i
root -4 to teh power of 2 =4 right?

Anyways, anyone here actually read the book? Or are macrumorers all viddying vonny creeches.

x^2 + 4 = 0
x^2 = -4
x = sqrt(-4) = sqrt(4)*sqrt(-1)
x = 2i (could be -2i too though)

Using the quadratic equation:
x^2 + 4 = 0
x^2 + 0x +4 = 0
a=1, b=0, c=4
x = (-0+-sqrt(0^2 - 4*1*4))/(2*1)
x = +-sqrt(-16)/4 = -sqrt(-4)
x = +-sqrt(4)*sqrt(-1)
x = +-2i

Never read or seen Clockwork Orange.

[kiang]

x²+4=0
x²=-4
x=sqrt(-4) V x=-sqrt(-4)
x=2*sqrt(-1) V x=-2*sqrt(-1)
x=2i V x=-2i

[iGav]

You have to remember that it was filmed some time ago, that was a pretty standard portrayal of what the 'future' could potentially look like with the added Kubrick twists from the perspective of late 60's-early 70's.

I'd go with that... it's very much a product of its times.

[jng]

ROFL how this turned into a maths thread.

re a clockwork orange, it depends on what version you read. I have the one with chapter 18 (I think) where he goes back to the Milkbar and well the ending is surprise. But many people hated that ending for various reasons.

I agree, the ending in the movie is odd, but overall I still think the film is a classic and Burgess' theory or language inventions are amazing to anyone interested in linguistics.

[iMeowbot]

but the thing that really ticks me off is the awkward, almost tacky settings in the movie vs. what I had imagined in the book.
I suppose so, but it is supposed to be Alex's retelling of events rather than a documentary-style view of that world. The almost cartoony portrayals always seemed okay to me.

[Jasonbot]

ROFL how this turned into a maths thread.

re a clockwork orange, it depends on what version you read. I have the one with chapter 18 (I think) where he goes back to the Milkbar and well the ending is surprise. But many people hated that ending for various reasons.

I agree, the ending in the movie is odd, but overall I still think the film is a classic and Burgess' theory or language inventions are amazing to anyone interested in linguistics.

I read the one with the missing last chapter but found the final chapter on the internet, it was good (excellent) and bought the story full ciccle showing Alex back on a life of crime which he actually almost gets bored of and gives up instead of requiring the Ludivico technique to "cure" him.

[ham_man]

This book kind of freaked me out. Burgess definately wasn't afraid to go to some extremes to make his point... :p

[PlaceofDis]

the book is great. and i did enjoy the movie, but as BV stated, the last chapter was originally left out of the US release for various reasons and as such the film doesn't include it either, which makes the whole thing a bit different between the two. Burgess was a great writer. love his work.

[Swarmlord]

One of my favorite movies to be sure.

[FrankBlack]

I'd go with that... it's very much a product of its times.

Agreed. When the movie played in the Boston area in '71-'72, It was rated "X", and for a short time, bore the "Banned in Boston" legend. (Most members here are probably not old enough to remember the "X" rating. It simply meant that no one under eighteen was admitted under any circumstances to a movie that bore this rating. ) The movie was very controversial. "Everyone needs to see this movie!" vs. "This movie is total garbage, and the book should be banned", were heard a lot. You were considered "rebellious" if you had read the book, and really rebellious if you went to see the movie.

I do indeed consider it to be a classic. It helps I think, if one reads the book before viewing the movie. I seem to remember barnes and noble releasing an edition recently, that contains the missing chapter 21. I could be mistaken.

Today, the sex and violence portrayed in the movie really don't shock anyone.

Sort of off-topic: The "Banned in Boston" bit comes from the time when the Boston archdiocese and and old (now long defunct) organization called "The watch and ward society" were actually able to censor books, publications, and movies for material they just didn't like. It turned into a marketing tool. I think the last movie to be "banned in boston" was Caligula, which also starred Malcolm MacDowell, oddly enough.

Oh yeah, how I got to see "Clockwork Orange" at age 15: The old fashioned way. A friend at the theater let me in. :D

The Theme is in my iTunes library.

[jng]

I read the one with the missing last chapter but found the final chapter on the internet, it was good (excellent) and bought the story full ciccle showing Alex back on a life of crime which he actually almost gets bored of and gives up instead of requiring the Ludivico technique to "cure" him.

Does he really go back to a life of crime? Think about it. He sees the picture of a child and it sparks something in him - maturity. That's what irked me about the movie. In the book and story as Burgess envisioned it (from what I understand) Alex isn't cured by any technique, rather he grows up or rather will grow up. I took it as Burgess was making a statement not just about teenagers and adolescence but rather about us all and the - what some would call - "primitive" desires and instincts we have: not just physical sex and attraction, but also to be loved by our own families, esp. our mothers.

[cycocelica]

The book is on my list to read, but there are many before it.

The movie though is a cult classic and by far one of my favorite movies. Kubrick was one of the best directors ever (still is). Anyone who tries and tell me that 2001: A Space Odyssey was not a phenominal movie is out of their mind. :p

[leekohler]

That is still one of the most disturbing films I've ever seen. It's right up there with Eraserhead. It's not something I care to see repeatedly, but it's still one of the greats.

[bartelby]

Tacky?:eek:

Which bits?

[Cindynjgirl79]

i can watch the movie over and over again. i have read the book 4 times, everytime i read it i get someting new from it. one of the few books that does that for me. Malcolm McDowell as an actor is highly underrated in the role as Alex. it is my #1 Stanley Kubrick movie, tied with The Shining.

[bartelby]

1985 is another good Anthony Burgess book.

[Jasonbot]

Tacky?:eek:

Which bits?

The general settings look all tacky and immitation futuristic, like teh retro chairs+wallpapers and even the clothing the people wear as opposed to the height of fashion they should be wearing in the 1950's/60's or whatever.

1985 is another good Anthony Burgess book.

Isn't that a George Orwell book?

[jng]

Isn't that a George Orwell book?

84 = orwell
85 = burgess

[yojitani]

yes, I have. I read the book years before I saw the film since I was living in England where is was (perhaps still is) banned. Kubric apparently WANTED it banned (sanctimonious git).
What surprised me about the book was that so much attention had been given to the violence etc. that no one mentioned the brilliant linguistic play and invention. The writing is breathtaking. Ultimately, I found the book unsettlingly conservative in spirit and the film completely lacking the vibrancy of the novel...

YT

[Blue Velvet]

Kubric apparently WANTED it banned (sanctimonious git).

No, he withdrew it from circulation becuase of alleged death threats to himself and his family, after all the hooha about the film's content.

[yojitani]

No, he withdrew it from circulation becuase of alleged death threats to himself and his family, after all the hooha about the film's content.

oh... well, I was going on 15 year old information. Just checking I see that a different story, the one you relay, came out after his death. I take it back then ... if Kubrick's version of events is true.:)

[Legolamb]

I don't recall hearing about any copycat crimes a la Alex. Nor any crimes using Beethoven's 9th as their inspiration. That would have been a hoot, tho: using a Beethoven defence as rock/metal/rap "influence" on deviant behaviour.:rolleyes:

[bartelby]

There are a couple of reported copycat crimes, including one from 1990:

'Clockwork Orange' link with boy's crime
The violent film , A Clockwork Orange, was in the mind of a boy aged 16 who beat an elderly tramp to death, it was alleged at Oxford Crown Court yesterday. The only money the tramp, Mr David McManus, aged 60, had, 1½p, was missing when his body was searched, Mr John Owen, for the prosecution said. The boy, who comes from Bletchley, Buckinghamshire, was sentenced to be detained during her Majesty's pleasure for murder. He had pleaded guilty.

The boy told the police that his friends had told him about the film "and the beating up of an old boy like this one".

Mr Owen said: "If this was robbery, it was all for 1½p or it may have been carried out for excitement as a result of the film. If so, the makers of the film have much to answer for." It seemed as if momentarily the devil had been planted in the boy's subconscious.

The irresistable conclusion was that it was the influence of the book. Many people had much to answer for, whether they were authors, film directors, television producers or those who allowed those films to be shown. He continued:

"It has produced a canker among the impressionable young, which all reasonable people desire to see stamped out at once".

Mr Roger Gray, for the defence, said: "The link between this crime and sensational literature, particularly A Clockwork Orange, is established beyond any reasonable doubt".
The Times -- 4th July, 1973


Film an argument for censorship, judge says
From our Correspondent
Manchester, July 23

Judge Bailey at Manchester Crown Court today attacked the film Clockwork Orange. He said it presented an "unassailable argument" for a form of censorship.

He had heard of the Sunday afternoon a boy aged 16, dressed like a character in the film, had attacked a boy aged 15. Sending him to borstal, the judge said: "Cases like yours present, in my view, an unassailable argument in favour of the return as quickly as possible of some sort of censorship to prevent this sort of exhibition being released on the screen or stage, which is evil in itself.

"If this happens, it will be very salutary in that those salacious creatures who appear to dominate what is called show business today are compelled to earn a more respectable and honorable livelihood instead of inciting young persons to violence at the expense of their victims."

He said that it was the second case he had heard in the past three weeks in which "a dispicable young bully has attributed his wicked behaviour to having seen this dastardly film".

The boy was convicted at heywood, Lancashire, on June 13 of causing grievous bodily harm to the boy of 15. He was said to have kicked him several times while wearing heavy boots.
The Times -- 24th July, 1973


Teenager jailed

Pittsburgh -- A teenager was sentenced to life in prison for fatally stabbing and strangling a friend in a crime he said was influenced by seeing the film A Clockwork Orange. (AP)
The Times -- 24th August, 1990

[Jasonbot]

Well it's these kids that commit crimes like the afore mentioned that the Ludivico technique attempted to cure, too bad the kids never saw the whole movie, probably got kicked out before the end..

[Cindynjgirl79]

well from imdb.com the list of ratings for the movie and also where it was band at and what years.


South Korea:18 (2005) (DVD rating) / Iceland:16 / South Africa:(Banned) / South Korea:18 (2004) / Canada:R (Manitoba/Nova Scotia/Ontario) / Ireland:18 (re-rating) (2000) / Ireland:(Banned) (1971-2000) / Argentina:13 (re-rating) / Argentina:18 (original rating) / Australia:MA (TV rating) / Australia:R (original rating) / Canada:16+ (Quebec) / Canada:R (Alberta) (re-rating) (1999) / Chile:18 / Finland:K-15 (re-rating) / Finland:K-18 (original rating) / France:-12 (re-rating) / France:-16 (original rating) / Hong Kong:III / Israel:18 (video rating) / Israel:X (original rating) / Italy:VM14 (re-release) / Italy:VM18 (original rating) / Japan:R-15 / Malaysia:(Banned) / Mexico:C / Netherlands:16 / New Zealand:R18 / Norway:18 / Singapore:(Banned) / South Korea:(Banned) / Spain:(Banned) (original rating) / Spain:18 (re-rating) (1975) / Sweden:15 / UK:18 (re-rating) (1999) / UK:X (original rating) / USA:R (edited for re-rating) (1972) / USA:X (original rating) / West Germany:16 / Portugal:M/16

[Jasonbot]

South Africa(Banned)

Zomg, I watched an illegal movie :eek: Doesn't look lie it was unbanned either.

[bartelby]

Zomg, I watched an illegal movie :eek: Doesn't look lie it was unbanned either.

Yeah, don't sweat it. I saw a Dutch copy, as it was still banned in the UK at the time.

[Jasonbot]

Yeah, don't sweat it. I saw a Dutch copy, as it was still banned in the UK at the time.

How will I know which version I watched? There was loads of profanity and illicit material. It was a legal dvd.

[bartelby]

How will I know which version I watched? There was loads of profanity and illicit material. It was a legal dvd.

Well, the Dutch version had subtitles in Dutch, so that was a bit of a give away.:)
Chances are it was the full film.

[aricher]

Just thought I'd share a couple of Clockwork toy mods a couple of friends did for a gallery show at Rotofugi (http://rotofugi.com/) in Chicago:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/152/354256011_f3943550b7_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/146/354256016_93ff3fff9d_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/145/354256015_556b4d38e6_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/126/354256013_f357783fc1_o.jpg

[Cindynjgirl79]

Just thought I'd share a couple of Clockwork toy mods a couple of friends did for a gallery show at Rotofugi (http://rotofugi.com/) in Chicago:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/152/354256011_f3943550b7_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/146/354256016_93ff3fff9d_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/145/354256015_556b4d38e6_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/126/354256013_f357783fc1_o.jpg

do your friends do toys for kidrobot? i have seen simlar toys on the site.

[FrankBlack]

If it has not already been mentioned,,

A fun fact; In the movie of A Clockwork Orange, writer F. Alexander's bodyguard is played by none other than David Prowse. Prowse, as most folks know all to well, went on to become famous as Darth Vader. :eek: