Best Buy and Apple - Together Again? [Archive]

j33pd0g

Jun 29, 2003, 12:46 AM

I don't know best buy service... never shopped there... I bought my first mac however from comp usa... the sales guy tried to tell me that macs didn't really have a whole lot of apps... that video editing would be a pain in the ars... and that you had to bring it back to the store or ship it to apple if you wanted more ram. Oh, and that they were over priced compared to the PC.
If I hadn't been using a mac at work, or had done my research... I would have been hornswoggled out of it - and had some lame HP tower.
The list went on... made me so mad that I almost didn't buy it there... but that new mac needed liberating, so I did. I hope best buy gets a schooling if they are to sell more than iSights and iPods. Comp USA needs more than schooling... they are on the little bus right now.
I think anybody that goes to buy a mac will know that the mac is the computer they want. New customers with no mac experience or background will be tossed to the PC side of the road, and left to die - never knowing the true beauty of the mac experience. Their ghosts will echo on, haunting the souls of the living, wailing wicked ignorance.

LethalWolfe

Jun 29, 2003, 12:53 AM

I have mixed emotions about this. I've yet to find a BB (or compUSA) CSR that really knew what they were talking about. They knew enough to think they knew what they were talking about. And they knew enough to make the average customer think they knew what they were talking about. But they usually don't know anymore than what's on the product description tag on the shelf. Case in point. I went to CompUSA a few months ago to look for a 15" iMac. A Sales rep approached me and asked if I needed help. I said I stopped by to look at their iMac selection. He promptly leads me over to the shelf w/all the TiBooks. :rolleyes: And that's not the first time that's happend either.

If Apple starts selling boxes at BB I can already hear the PC-centric sales-reps steering people away from the "crappy, expensive" Macs as fast as they can. Oh well... time will tell.

Lethal

Ja Di ksw

Jun 29, 2003, 12:59 AM

I hope this is true. It would be nice to be able to go over to Best Buy and toy with the new Macs before deciding to get one. I've read a few different times in here how people don't like Best Buy, but I've always liked them. No, they aren't experts by any stretch of the imagination, but they aren't complete idiots (plus Apple will have it's own people there who know what's going on). What I really like about Best Buy is their 4 year warrenty. I get that on everything expensive I buy there. If something goes wrong (and it usually doesn't) and a later model is out, they usually let me pay the difference and get the new model, as they stopped stocking the old one that I had.

jzieske

Jun 29, 2003, 01:20 AM

Didn't Apple and Best Buy try this once before, a few years ago and it failed.

I can only see it working with Apple sales people or else lots of training for current Best Buy employees.

bitfactory

Jun 29, 2003, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by wsteineker
Sucks that you've had such a negative experience with my company. Still, I don't think the problem you describe is systemic. It's probably just your store, honestly. Everyone I've encountered with the company has been knowledgeable and friendly. Next time you're down this way be sure to stop in and see me. I'll make sure you're taken care of. :)

<way off topic>
not just HIS store... the two where i live are exactly the same way... i've already written a letter to the Best Buy Corp office on the high-pressure way they try to sell you the extended warranties on EVERYTHING. i bought a mid-size WEGA television in there not too long ago and was pressured to buy the extended warranty at the counter in the back (said, "no thanks" - "why?" - "uh, the chance of anything going wrong with this television after the warranty are nil'" - "well, wouldn't you feel safer knowing..." - "nope, just ring it up"...

made my way from the back to the front with the TV on the cart... got to the front door to show the guard my receipt and was harrassed AGAIN for not buying the EW. after turning it down two more times to him, i finally couldn't take it anymore and went OFF on him...

jesus, just take NO for an answer... extended warranties from companies like Best Buy are a JOKE. they make SERIOUS money off of it, less than 4% of people who buy the policies ever use them (PrimeTime Live, 2002).
</way off topic>

that said, it'd be nice just to get the exposure... but i only buy CDs there now... they don't sell warranties for them.

jzieske

Jun 29, 2003, 01:27 AM

I wish they did not sell extended plans on CD's my grandma got roped in to paying $2.50 for extended service on a $18 CD.
That is just SICK.:mad:

menoinjun

Jun 29, 2003, 01:28 AM

I don't understand how everyone seems to have bad experiences at CompUSA lately. All you have to do is go in and ask for the Apple Rep, and you will get better service and knowledge than you could imagine. Forget the CompUSA employees, it's the Apple reps you should be talking to.

There are over 170 of them...I can't imagine that everyone here goes to stores that don't have ASCs!!

IndyGopher

Jun 29, 2003, 02:02 AM

Why do you find it surprising that the Apple folks at CompUSA don't know what they're talking about, when the Apple folks at the Apple stores don't know what they are talking about?

The most you can hope for is someone who reads the sales material they have been handed since they started. I don't think Best Buy will be any different than the Apple stores or CompUSA.

Yes, there are always exceptions. I am sure there are several people at all three companies that know all about Macs. They are the minority.

tazo

Jun 29, 2003, 02:24 AM

I don't know, I think compusa would be better then best buy for retail sale of apples. Honestly, if you go into a best buy they don't know anything. I asked them where their latest model Clie was, something every salesman there should know. The salesman responds, who makes that? I mean honestly. Although I have had similar experiences at Compusa, the frequency with which they occur at Best Buy is frightening to say the least. IMHO Apple should stray away from retailers that would do more or less damage to the company image of professional excellence.

Gus

Jun 29, 2003, 02:56 AM

You guys must all be too young to remember when Apple had computers in all of the major retail outlets: Best Buy, Circuit City, and yes, even Wal-Mart. Best Buy was the worst place to go. I know there's somebody here who works for BB, but I'm sorry, everyone there is anti-Apple. Not just PC users, but people who do not understand, or care to understand Apple and its products. MANNY times, while strolling through the computer section, looking at iPods there, I had to stop and help somebody get things straight after a BB salesperson pretty much told them the opposite of the truth about the machine they were looking at. In the old partnership, it was VERY common to go there and see Macs that were not even turned on, or had had a system freeze, and just left hung for hours. They just didn't care about learning. Even worse was when I and a friend of mine applied to help sell the Macs, we were turned down because they "didn't care to sell any more Macs". This was in Winston-Salem, NC in 1996. Unless there are some full-time Apple types in the stores, this will fail miserably. Can you imagine grandma going to BestBuy and seeing a screen with a kernel panic on it for hours? Yeah, that would sell a lot of computers.

Regards,
Gus

wsteineker

Jun 29, 2003, 03:02 AM

Originally posted by jzieske
I wish they did not sell extended plans on CD's my grandma got roped in to paying $2.50 for extended service on a $18 CD.
That is just SICK.:mad:
Ok, I'll admit that I've been with Best Buy less than a year, but I'm calling *********. We DO NOT sell service plans on items that cost less than $99. Period. End of story.

Whew. Now that that's out of the way, I'll admit something else. I am very aware of the existing stigma which dictates that Best Buy employees are all mindless retail zombies with absolutely no product knowledge whatsoever whose sole job it is to force you to buy high margin service plans and accessories. That being said, I have yet to encounter that in my store (Montgomery, AL #836). Granted it's a new store, but I've found that those associates who don't know have absolutely no problem asking a fellow associate who does. No *********. We don't work on commission, so we don't benefit at all when we promise the moon and then don't deliver. As for the training issue, let me promise you that Best Buy's corporate organization is also well aware of the aforementioned stigma and is working very hard to remedy the situation. Required training on every manufacturer's product line is now the standard in every Best Buy in the country. Whether or not the individual store follows directions is up to them, but corporate has gone out of its way to ensure that we sales associates are actually learning the product. It's a new concept (as depressing as that is), but I can see it working in my store from day to day. Have a little faith, people. Worst case scenario is that Apple gets more exposure to middle America, and there's not a damn thing wrong with that.

edenwaith

Jun 29, 2003, 03:03 AM

Originally posted by Java
<off topic>
I know this is a bit off topic, but my CompUSA really stinks. They always have Apple products mislabed. :mad:
</off topic>

I cannot remember exactly which store it was (Best Buy, Office Max, Staples, or some similar store) was completely non-Mac. I even found a copy of Bugdom...which was for Windows 9x. I didn't even know that game had been ported to Windows! And it seems like it should have been at least a Hybrid CD. Nope, just Windows based. I think about the only non-Windows software I found was a hybrid version of StarOffice 6 for Windows and Linux.

And does anyone else get BEST and Best Buy confused?

edenwaith

Jun 29, 2003, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by superspaminacan
People WILL buy Macs at Best Buy. This is a smart move. Everytime I visit a store remotely related to electronics/computing that doesn't carry Apple wares I always make a point to mention to the manager that I came to their store EXPECTING they would carry Apple and leaving disappointed that they don't.

I just hope that if you do bother expressing your interest or opinions, someone actually listens. At a Staples store in the town where I used to live, they had about one piece of Mac software...Mac OS 10.0, and this was well after 10.1 had been released. I took the box up to the counter and explained that they should get rid of this copy and replace it with the (far better) current version. Well, they did the first part...getting rid of the copy of Mac OS X. But they never did get an updated version of it up on their shelves. Just another office store which only cowtows to the Windows crowd.

At a former job, when I expressed my displeasure with how old the Macs were getting in the small Mac lab, my supervisors didn't give one [rude expression] about it. The supervisor who did once give a damn about the macs passed away a few years ago, and that was about the last time they were updated. Sometimes a person's opinion does matter and is magnified by all of those unspoken voices. But sometimes, it is just thrown away as "just" one person's opinion. If no one else has spoken up, then what does it matter?

An example: I e-mailed Ubi Soft about a more current version of ChessMaster for the Mac (the last version I saw was 6000, and the PC is up to version 9000). I did receive a response, but it was just that there were no plans on bringing an updated version of CM to the Mac.

Well, I do own CM 6000, but for Windows since I bought it for $5! Last I saw (which was a few minutes ago), CM 6000 for the Mac was still selling for $40. I love the Mac, and want to support it, but I'm not going to spend 8x the amount of money for the same game. Oh, and CM 6000 and a few old DOS games are about the only reason I have Virtual PC. If I did bother with CM 6000 for the Mac, that would be one less reason for VPC (but I would still have to run CM 6000 in Classic mode). The ridiculous part is that Ubi Soft is still trying to charge so much for CM 6000. Now if they offered it for $5 or $10 for the Mac, then sure, I'd buy it! Oh, but they do have Chessmaster for Game Boy Advanced ($30) and Playstation 2 ($20). Would it hurt them to actually reduce the price of the Mac version?

wsteineker

Jun 29, 2003, 03:36 AM

cb911

Jun 29, 2003, 03:47 AM

it's got to be good that Apple and Macs will have more outlets right?

i know we sure need more resellers or Apple Stores here in Australia.

edenwaith

Jun 29, 2003, 03:51 AM

Originally posted by wsteineker
I agree wholeheartedly. I currently work in the Computer department at Best Buy, and while my store is new and obviously atypical (see above posts), ....

...and to complete my ranting for now...

I would love to see Apple getting its hardware out into more stores. These days, people do have much easier access to obtaining Apple goods via the internet, but there is still a whole slew of people who did not grow up with computers and do not participate in e-commerce too often. There are some people who are very happy to go to Local Computer Store X where they can buy the machine and also get the support for it if they need it. That computer will almost always be a PC since the hardware is so much easier to find. What about the Mac stores? They are around, or at least some resellers can be found, but not nearly on the scale of PCs.

I feel that the Apple Retail Stores are a good move for Apple, but they need to start dispersing their stores a little more than in the LA region. There are around 10 Apple Stores in California, yet the entire northwestern part of the continental US had not a single store for quite a long time (finally one in the Seattle region). And how about the international scene? Just finally starting. Good ideas, but perhaps a little too late or not quite fast enough. I just hope they can do well without needing to be shut down like many Gateway stores.

question fear

Jun 29, 2003, 04:29 AM

Originally posted by wsteineker
Ok, I'll admit that I've been with Best Buy less than a year, but I'm calling *********. We DO NOT sell service plans on items that cost less than $99. Period. End of story.

no comment on the rest of your post, but i also work for best buy and we do sell service plans for items under 99.00.
go to your media dept and pick up the product REPLACEMENT plan pamphlet, it lists how much it costs based on the price of the item being purchased.
I think on items over 99.00 its a service plan, but you can get a replacement plan if its for less. when i worked in media we were supposed to sell them for 20.00 cd players.
--carly

wsteineker

Jun 29, 2003, 04:33 AM

Originally posted by question fear
no comment on the rest of your post, but i also work for best buy and we do sell service plans for items under 99.00.
go to your media dept and pick up the product REPLACEMENT plan pamphlet, it lists how much it costs based on the price of the item being purchased.
I think on items over 99.00 its a service plan, but you can get a replacement plan if its for less. when i worked in media we were supposed to sell them for 20.00 cd players.
--carly
[Best Buy Employee Shop Talk] You're absolutely right about the Replacement Plans, but my post was directed at PSPs only. Furthermore, PRPs are rarely offered anywhere besides the register at the point of purchase, and are under no circumstances to be presented as an extended warranty. Either way, I've NEVER heard of a PRP or PSP for a CD.[/Best Buy Employee Shop Talk]

iJon

Jun 29, 2003, 04:34 AM

Originally posted by question fear
no comment on the rest of your post, but i also work for best buy and we do sell service plans for items under 99.00.
go to your media dept and pick up the product REPLACEMENT plan pamphlet, it lists how much it costs based on the price of the item being purchased.
I think on items over 99.00 its a service plan, but you can get a replacement plan if its for less. when i worked in media we were supposed to sell them for 20.00 cd players.
--carly
:), where is the irony in this post. we have a huge post about best buy being the place to sell them, staff knowing their stuff, then we find out they dont even know their own service plans. thanks for the post, very funny and eye awakning.

iJon

wsteineker

Jun 29, 2003, 04:35 AM

Originally posted by iJon
:), where is the irony in this post. we have a huge post about best buy being the place to sell them, staff knowing their stuff, then we find out they dont even know their own service plans. thanks for the post, very funny and eye awakning.

iJon
Yo iJon, read my above post. And next time, try not to be such an ******* when you *attempt* to call someone out. :mad:

[mod edit]I can't believe u guys get THIS heated in a Mac user discussion board... :rolleyes:

iJon

Jun 29, 2003, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by wsteineker
Yo iJon, read my above post. And next time, try not to be such an ******* when you *attempt* to call someone out. :mad:
yeah yeah, i was still typing when you posted. i thought it was funny, thats all, didnt mean to "call" you out.

iJon

wsteineker

Jun 29, 2003, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by iJon
yeah yeah, i was still typing when you posted. i thought it was funny, thats all, didnt mean to "call" you out.

iJon
Alright then, fair enough. I'll let it slide this time. ;) Seriously though, I really believe that this could be the coolest thing that Apple's done in a long time. It may only be because I'd get to work with Apple hardware all day long, but still...

iJon

Jun 29, 2003, 04:45 AM

Originally posted by wsteineker
Alright then, fair enough. I'll let it slide this time. ;) Seriously though, I really believe that this could be the coolest thing that Apple's done in a long time. It may only be because I'd get to work with Apple hardware all day long, but still...
lol, its all good, its late and that was really funny, didnt know you were posting. although i do disagree with the best buy thing for many reasons, but we wont know what happens till it happens.

iJon

raeingoth

Jun 29, 2003, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by wsteineker
[Best Buy Employee Shop Talk] Either way, I've NEVER heard of a PRP or PSP for a CD.[/Best Buy Employee Shop Talk]

That's because there is no such thing as a PRP for a CD. You can not even manually put in a PRP SKU and register it for a CD. That is unheard of and I think whoever said that was off their rocker or just trying to cause a stir. I will say that some of their PRPs or PSPs can be a little silly, as some products are cheaper than the actual PSP/PRP (e.g. some wireless/house phones, cd players, some clearance items obviously).
And PRPs are offered outside of the register, in Media, Audio, and Wireless would be the big ones off hand (at least that's SOP supposedly).

SiliconAddict

Jun 29, 2003, 05:11 AM

Best Buys new corp HQ (Or the Arks as I like to call the 3 building.) is about 3 blocks away from where I work here in Edina MN. Close enough where I was able to actually drop off a 1 page letter of complaint to them about 3 weeks ago. I go to Best Buy for many things. CD’s, DVD’s, software but NEVER for computer advice. I’ve been to numerous stores around the Minneapolis twin cities area and from time to time I listen to the crap the reps push on those poor bastard customers who don’t know any better. I swear I heard a tech tell this poor couple that by increasing the hard drive size you would increase the overall performance of your computer *slams head into keyboard. It wasn’t as entertaining as listening to a rep talk about how this USB 1 scanner was just as fast as a USB 2 scanner. He talked about how USB 2 could handle more devices or some other BS like that. (In that case I talked to the folks after the rep vanished.) It’s sickening to listen to how uninformed some (Repeat SOME. For those BB employees listening if you know your stuff more power to you and thank you for helping the customers get informed decisions.) of these people are.
That was the core summery of my little complaint. How does this apply to Apple?
Whenever I’ve gone into the Apple store at the Mall of America to talk tech with the reps there I’ve ALWAYS been impressed with the level of knowledge. If Apple just tosses hardware Best Buys ways and says sell this I would expect there to be some serious issues with presentation and knowledge of the product in each individual store. Apple has gotten a BAD rep the last few years and if not presented appropriately in these stores it could make things worse. Personally I would like to see staff trained and placed by apple in Best Buy stores. Even if that person in that store is an existing employee they should be given a crash course in Macs from the source.
Also I’m still a Windows user. I’ve gone into Best Buy and talked with them about computers. Whenever I’ve discussed Macs they generally do the typical Wintel user laugh and brush off of anything Apple made. This would NOT be a healthy environment to try and sell a Mac in. But on the other hand I’m not saying Best Buy or Apple needs to put a snobby elitist Apple user in their store either. I’m suggesting that a tolerance needs to be there to allow the possible sales of these products to occur.
This could be a match made in Heaven or Hell. It all depends on Apple’s strategy.

All I know is I will be keeping an eye on whoever is representing Apple in these stores. I still use a PC for now but damn if I won’t complain if someone is dismissing the use of a Mac simply because of a bias.
Heh I really want to see apple’s market share climb back into the 10%+ range. *shrugs* I like rooting for the underdog.

iJon

Jun 29, 2003, 05:16 AM

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Best Buys new corp HQ (Or the Arks as I like to call the 3 building.) is about 3 blocks away from where I work here in Edina MN. Close enough where I was able to actually drop off a 1 page letter of complaint to them about 3 weeks ago. I go to Best Buy for many things. CD’s, DVD’s, software but NEVER for computer advice. I’ve been to numerous stores around the Minneapolis twin cities area and from time to time I listen to the crap the reps push on those poor bastard customers who don’t know any better. I swear I heard a tech tell this poor couple that by increasing the hard drive size you would increase the overall performance of your computer *slams head into keyboard. It wasn’t as entertaining as listening to a rep talk about how this USB 1 scanner was just as fast as a USB 2 scanner. He talked about how USB 2 could handle more devices or some other BS like that. (In that case I talked to the folks after the rep vanished.) It’s sickening to listen to how uninformed some (Repeat SOME. For those BB employees listening if you know your stuff more power to you and thank you for helping the customers get informed decisions.) of these people are.
That was the core summery of my little complaint. How does this apply to Apple?
Whenever I’ve gone into the Apple store at the Mall of America to talk tech with the reps there I’ve ALWAYS been impressed with the level of knowledge. If Apple just tosses hardware Best Buys ways and says sell this I would expect there to be some serious issues with presentation and knowledge of the product in each individual store. Apple has gotten a BAD rep the last few years and if not presented appropriately in these stores it could make things worse. Personally I would like to see staff trained and placed by apple in Best Buy stores. Even if that person in that store is an existing employee they should be given a crash course in Macs from the source.
Also I’m still a Windows user. I’ve gone into Best Buy and talked with them about computers. Whenever I’ve discussed Macs they generally do the typical Wintel user laugh and brush off of anything Apple made. This would NOT be a healthy environment to try and sell a Mac in. But on the other hand I’m not saying Best Buy or Apple needs to put a snobby elitist Apple user in their store either. I’m suggesting that a tolerance needs to be there to allow the possible sales of these products to occur.
This could be a match made in Heaven or Hell. It all depends on Apple’s strategy.

All I know is I will be keeping an eye on whoever is representing Apple in these stores. I still use a PC for now but damn if I won’t complain if someone is dismissing the use of a Mac simply because of a bias.
Heh I really want to see apple’s market share climb back into the 10%+ range. *shrugs* I like rooting for the underdog.
i completly agree. and rumors say apple will put in their own people, which i dont see why they wouldnt, it would be suicide. but iwas talking to one of my friends and he told me apple puts there people in compusa, and i havent heard much better stories there. i could right a whole page on very indepth reasons why i feel this wouldnt work, but mainly i dont see a mac doing so well when a pc is in the next row. ive learned macs are best sold when pcs arent near, and you can focus on the mac specifically. because as they walk out of best buy, the will see all the hardware, software, and computers for cheaper prices, as well as the abundance of software and hardware. which is a main reason people dont choose macs, because of limited hardware and software selections.

iJon

Atradies

Jun 29, 2003, 05:28 AM

Ok, trying to get a few things straight here. I also, like a couple other people here, work for BB, and have for 3 years now. In those three years I have noticed many problems with certain people making up certain information, but this is a very few people. And I will, like other employees seeing this, tell the customer the "truth" about a product, and not care about making the original associate look like an ass.

The store that I work at (Marin City, #132) surprisingly has a large following of Mac users there. The 2 highest qualified techs there were a couple of the guys trying to push this partnership with corporate. I talk with the computer department all of the time and they could for the most part care less if its a mac or not. They'll sell what's right for the individual. (Of course that can't be entirely true or we would have been sending everybody to an Apple Store, but you understand). And trust me to be there from time to time to make sure they are all up to par on there knowledge. Also, everyday I'm there, I will be making sure that the computers are up and running.

As for the whole thing with the PSPs and PRPs. PSPs are for product "usually" over 200 dollars and are for fixing or replacing product that is damaged from normal wear and tear. PRPs are for product "only" under 200 that are only for replacing the product within a 2 year time. Almost no questions asked on the PRP. The PRP is impossible to sell on a CD. Yes it can be sold on a CD player that's $20, but some things just aren't possible. I have a $150 remote that I would love to have gotten a PRP on, but not possible, so believe me, there was no PRP or especially PSP sold on a CD. Try Good Guys for that.

Also, somebody was mentioning the stores in Canada. Those would be called FutureShop.

Come into my store and test it when we start selling Macs.

Atradies

Jun 29, 2003, 05:34 AM

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
I swear I heard a tech tell this poor couple that by increasing the hard drive size you would increase the overall performance of your computer *slams head into keyboard.

Pretty smart tech if you ask me, considering it can be true. If you have say a 40GB HD and your constantly filling it up and having to dump files and back up files, your files are going to get extremely fragmented, slowing down "the overall performance of your computer", so if you have a larger HD, files don't fragment as easily or nearly as fast. And when they do fragment, its a lot easier to defragment.

Maybe try slamming that keyboard a bit harder next time.

kirk26

Jun 29, 2003, 06:51 AM

Originally posted by Freg3000
God I hope Best Buy will be better than my CompUSA.

I dont' know. The CompUSA where I live has a huge Mac section.

Centris 650

Jun 29, 2003, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by jzieske
Didn't Apple and Best Buy try this once before, a few years ago and it failed.

I can only see it working with Apple sales people or else lots of training for current Best Buy employees.

One of the problems back then was that Apple wanted BB to carry ALL the different colors of the iMac when only the Blueberry and Strawberry iMacs were selling like crazy. BB didn't want to have to carry excess hardware that wasn't moving.

My BB store in Columbia (the one on Harbison Blvd not the one on Two Notch Rd.) is really good. I was in there about 2 weeks ago buying an emergency external HD. The guy was really helpful and really knowledgeable. I even told him that he was the best Best Buy employee I had ever worked with.

I think it's a good thing. The closest Apple Store is 4 hrs away in Atlanta or 4.5 hours to the one in NC. For this reason my parents have put off buying a new mac because they want to test out 17" imac in store before they buy one and they really don't want to drive 4 hrs to test drive a mac.

daRAT

Jun 29, 2003, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by Custom Pbook12
Best Buy and Apple, seems like a good combo, but i do think that i would still buy stuff from my local apple store, (even if the price is higher) just because i can talk circles around most of the people who work at best buy. the only good thing about it would be the possible accessories that are 3rd party, and more mac compatible software.

I agree, I have a very small Mac dealer near me, and try to do all my business with them. I have had bad experiences with Best Buy :(

mk_in_mke

Jun 29, 2003, 07:24 AM

I was at Best buy last friday and tried to buy an IPod... The products were place in a cabinet, cabinet was 4 feet tall, no visibility at all, impossible to get some information from the sales associates...

If this is the type of service we are going to get from them for the top of the line Apple G5... well don't look there!!!

On top of this, Best Buy would provide the same pricing with much less service than an Apple Store...

What is to gain for Apple... More penetration in Areas where no Apple Store exist... My 2c on this is Apple should seriously think again before letting their products in best Buy hands...

There is no way I will buy a G5 or a flat panel display from Best Buy... I would consider them for software only...

Michel

mk_in_mke

Jun 29, 2003, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by Atradies
Pretty smart tech if you ask me, considering it can be true. If you have say a 40GB HD and your constantly filling it up and having to dump files and back up files, your files are going to get extremely fragmented, slowing down "the overall performance of your computer", so if you have a larger HD, files don't fragment as easily or nearly as fast. And when they do fragment, its a lot easier to defragment.

Maybe try slamming that keyboard a bit harder next time.

Very Clever; try to explain to John Doe and his 5 YO kid what is defragmentation... And then he buys a Mac... Clever move... All Best Buy employees: Explain Defragmentation, how windows manage available memory, how to find and install drivers!!! Please do it everytime!!!!!

Michel

MattG

Jun 29, 2003, 08:23 AM

Originally posted by Macrumors
As first reported by ThinkSecret (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/bestbuy2.html), Apple and Best Buy are in talks to bring Apple's products back into the national retailer.

A recent report indicates that the Apple's return to Best Buy could take place as early as August 3rd, 2003. Best Buy has been carrying Apple's iPod. This new deal would presumably include more hardware -- though details are not available at this time.

This would be really nice. Where I live, the closest Apple store is 2 hours away. No CompUSA's here. We do however have two Best Buys.

Lepton

Jun 29, 2003, 08:29 AM

This is a good move. CompUSA's Mac department used to really suck until they put Apple people in there, now it 100 times better. So as long as they continue that practice with Best Buy, they should be fine.

But here in Huntington Long Island, a brand new Apple store just opened. And now they are finishing up constructing a big Best Buy building about 100 yards away. What are they going to do when it opens next month and they start competing with themselves?

eric_n_dfw

Jun 29, 2003, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by mk_in_mke
Very Clever; try to explain to John Doe and his 5 YO kid what is defragmentation... And then he buys a Mac... Clever move... All Best Buy employees: Explain Defragmentation, how windows manage available memory, how to find and install drivers!!! Please do it everytime!!!!!

Michel What's your point? Mac's HFS+ system is just as prone to fragmentation as NTFS or FAT32 on Windows. Besides, BestBuy wants to sell you another hard drive. That's business.

As long as an Apple trained product specialist will be there, I think this is great idea. My best friend needed a new PC a year or so ago and went with a BestBuy, Matrix PC because they had one to those 18 Month 0% interest deals going on. If they had sold iMac's - he'd have bought one.

Also, as much as I think the PSP's BB sell are a rip-off, I will admit that they are a God-send when you actualy need to use them. We bought a Maytag refigerator there and spent the extra $100 or so on the 4 year PSP. In the 3rd year it developed a leak in the coolant system which rendered it completely dead. When we went in to get a replacement, they no longer had a top-mount in any brand with as many cubic feet as our old one so (after a little bit of haggling) they slashed a very nice side-by-side by several hundred dolars to keep us happy.

My general rule is if the item is too big of a pain to bring in or ship to the mfr' for waranty work, I'll think about the PSP. (large appliances, large TV's)

BTW: That friend recently had a lightening strike burn out his modem (among other things) - because he had the PSP they replaced it no questions asked. (Yes, a replacement modem probably would cost less than the PSP - but I'm impressed that they covered an "Act of God".)

MetallicPenguin

Jun 29, 2003, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by Gus
You guys must all be too young to remember when Apple had computers in all of the major retail outlets: Best Buy, Circuit City, and yes, even Wal-Mart. Best Buy was the worst place to go. I know there's somebody here who works for BB, but I'm sorry, everyone there is anti-Apple. Not just PC users, but people who do not understand, or care to understand Apple and its products. MANNY times, while strolling through the computer section, looking at iPods there, I had to stop and help somebody get things straight after a BB salesperson pretty much told them the opposite of the truth about the machine they were looking at. In the old partnership, it was VERY common to go there and see Macs that were not even turned on, or had had a system freeze, and just left hung for hours. They just didn't care about learning. Even worse was when I and a friend of mine applied to help sell the Macs, we were turned down because they "didn't care to sell any more Macs". This was in Winston-Salem, NC in 1996. Unless there are some full-time Apple types in the stores, this will fail miserably. Can you imagine grandma going to BestBuy and seeing a screen with a kernel panic on it for hours? Yeah, that would sell a lot of computers.

Regards,
Gus

Hey I'm from Winston Salem!

I kind of hope they start carying Apple products, but I think I would rather buy everything from my Apple Store that is 1.5 hours away. Just for the experiance...and so that I can get my Pro Card:p

jlegun21

Jun 29, 2003, 09:18 AM

Earlier this month, insiders confirmed that the two companies are still considering a plan where Best Buy would sell Apple products, and Apple would staff the stores with its own employees to help boost sales.

did any of you read this? it seems to me that it says apple will be providing the staff to sell its products. its pretty plain non-confusing language

BenRoethig

Jun 29, 2003, 09:26 AM

For those of us that the nearest apple reseller is an hour and a half away, but do have a Best Buy (or at least will by September), this is a good thing. Lets see here; Drive 100 miles to Technology Associates in Cedar Rapids or drive a mile and a half to Best Buy. First of all, Apple (not Best Buy) employees will staff the Mac area. It's like having an Apple store within a Best Buy. If those guys are anti-mac, they won't have a job for long. Secondly, it gets Apple into the mainstream view. Theres a lot of people who don't but Macs just because they do not see them. People aren't going to drive hours just to see a Mac, you have to bring the Mac to them. If they cannot see it, they'll assume there's no difference between a Mac and a PC.. It will also help push the G5. Let the skeptics try them out for themsleves.

medea

Jun 29, 2003, 09:37 AM

First off, for all of you that are worrying about "the service" Best Buy will give to Apple's products you should try reading the story again as Apple would staff the Best Buy's will Apple staff. With that aside, this would be a great move if done correctly this time around, and I think Apple's product line is much stronger this time so your not going to walk into Best Buy and just see a line of G3iMac's. Personally I would have to travel to another city 2 or more hours away to visit an Apple Store or any Apple retalier so to be able to just go to Best Buy to pick up Mac software, accesories or even an actual computer would be incredible. I can't wait.

schweb

Jun 29, 2003, 09:41 AM

Pete_Hoover

Jun 29, 2003, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by Sedulous
I dunno if I like this. Is it likely that Best Buy sales staff know anything about Apple stuff? I guess it is a good development for those not located near an Apple Store.

Apple will be putting their staff in Best Buy, so I am guessing that they will know something about Apple products. And yes, I do agree that this will be good for people that don't have an Apple Store near them. The nearest one to me is three hours away. It could be a one day trip, but I have other things to do. Maybe Best Buy could fill this Apple void in my life. CompUSA just isn't good enough.

Mudbug

Jun 29, 2003, 11:14 AM

I for one am very much looking forward to this move, if for no other reason than to make it easier for me to get pieces and parts for my macs without driving multiple hours to wade thru the crowds at an AppleStore, or order products sight-unseen from a catalog.

I've read through all the posts in the thread so far, and feel that both sides have a valid arguement for and against putting macs in Best Buy. But the bottom line, plain and simple, is that Best Buy has a larger market reach than the Apple Stores, simply because Best Buy already has a large infrastructure of stores scattered about the country in key locations that sell to an incredibly broad audience. Even if by having these stores carry macs the marketshare for Apple goes from 2% Nationally (US) to 2.5% Nationally, then it's a good move. At this point, availability has to play an important roll. And as far as the employees in the store go, Apple will train them first, then supply them to the store. That's how they all work. Whether or not you get someone who paid attention during the training session is another matter, and one that is completely person-dependent.

I saw a post earlier that said the guy (or girl - dunno) had gone to Best Buy, listened to the employee mis-inform a couple, then they went over and explained it correctly. I've seen this multiple times myself. The real point that needs to be pushed is to SHOP before you go shopping. Computers are high-ticket items, and ones that shouldn't be made on a whim. There should be LOTS of attention paid in advertising to get people to research their computer purchases online with the facts laid out in front of them, usually in plain english, long before they ever get to the store. An informed consumer is a wise consumer, and usually a happy consumer to boot.

I'd say this is my 2¢, but I think with the length of the post (sorry about that) it's more like 3¢.

But to you it's free, nonetheless. :D

TMay

Jun 29, 2003, 11:20 AM

In Reno, we have a fairly new independent Apple store, and a CompUSA with both an Apple specialist and an Apple employee south of town. The Best Buy is north of the CompUSA by about half a mile, while a Gateway store is north of Best Buy by another half a mile.

The way I see it, CompUSA caters to mac professionals, who are buying elaborate systems, while Best Buy will probably snag more new computer users/ switchers. One advantage for Best Buy, if they play it right, is that they can also make some home entertainment add on sales to existing mac owners as well.

Either way, I see Best Buy as a real thorn for Gateway's consumer electronic sales strategy. Maybe Gateway would be better off selling Apple products as well...

actripxl

Jun 29, 2003, 11:22 AM

I worked for BB for three years while saving money to pay for Dental School from '97-'00. For the most part the only people with actual brains are the techs. The rest are basically uninformed lackeys that just repeat whatever the weekly booklets spell out for them. The computer dept. is a joke, yes there are a handful that know something, but the majority just just spout numbers and stats that they have no idea what they truly mean to even less knowledgeable customers. I know cause while I was a tech my brother would sell computers and he only had a basic knowledge on computers. Thank God Apple is hiring its own people, cause otherwise to depend on BB to do the right thing would be a mistake. P.S. some that does work at BB in a previous post said it was just one store that may have a problem, wrong I know for a fact all South Florida stores have this problem so im sure the rest of the chain must this problem as well.

question fear

Jun 29, 2003, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by actripxl
I worked for BB for three years while saving money to pay for Dental School from '97-'00. For the most part the only people with actual brains are the techs. The rest are basically uninformed lackeys that just repeat whatever the weekly booklets spell out for them. The computer dept. is a joke, yes there are a handful that know something, but the majority just just spout numbers and stats that they have no idea what they truly mean to even less knowledgeable customers. I know cause while I was a tech my brother would sell computers and he only had a basic knowledge on computers. Thank God Apple is hiring its own people, cause otherwise to depend on BB to do the right thing would be a mistake. P.S. some that does work at BB in a previous post said it was just one store that may have a problem, wrong I know for a fact all South Florida stores have this problem so im sure the rest of the chain must this problem as well.

theres truth in this, but not completely. many of the people who work there know jack****. i was definitely put in media with no knowledge of SACD v DVD Audio, etc...and expected to help customers. Even more fun was trying to help mothers pick out game systems for their kids. the blind leading the blind....
but i would take umbrage at you saying all bb employees are mindless, and that the only people with knowledge are the techs. because we havea computer nad business oriented school in the next town over from my store, we do have a few very knowledgable computer guys in the computer dept. they may be an exception, but i havent bothered to really look into it.
and i just graduated from brandeis with a degree in philosophy. so i guess to the world of best buy i am useless, but not necessarily brainless. i bet you're in the same boat, having gone to dental school and worked there.
anyway, the reason the employees are usually just following the books instructions is because usually that sthe only guidance bb gives. unless oyur supervisor is smarter than the avg management, you're on your own. and if, like me, you have no desire to learn the difference between an xbox and a ps2 you come across as a moron.
and i sincerely hope apple reps are there, because my best buy would SUCK at selling apples. they suck enough as is at selling pcs....most of the time i end up helping people, and i work for the merchandising dept.
--carly

Jerry Spoon

Jun 29, 2003, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by wsteineker
Worst case scenario is that Apple gets more exposure to middle America, and there's not a damn thing wrong with that.
No, the worst case scenario is that Apple gets NEGATIVE exposure to middle America, and there is something wrong with that.
That being said, I do hope that they start carrying Apple products, and more importantly, software that works with my Mac. I'm tired of going to CompUSA for my occasional game I purchase for my Mac. There is never a very good selection at this particular store and it isn't conveniently located.

ScottyBoyMn

Jun 29, 2003, 12:01 PM

This could be a fruitful coupling but I think it really depends on how Best Buy will handle Mac customers. While there may be Apple employees on site to answer questions, I would imagine that purchases are still managed by Best Buy. While I agree that Best Buy has some of the best prices in retail for purchase, I think their customer care is atrocious. If I had to choose buying Apple products by driving 5 miles to Best Buy vs. driving 25 miles to an Apple store, you can bet I'd rather go to the Apple store.

Just my thoughts.

coolsoldier

Jun 29, 2003, 12:18 PM

I live in Baton Rouge, and the only place within two hours of here to buy any mac products is CompUSA, who I have never been satisfied with. (Possibly because they never update their products -- They're still selling RevB G3 iMacs or because their CSRs don't know squat about PCs, much less macs and the Apple rep is almost never around)
I don't really expect best buy to be any different, but at least it's another option. Stores like BB or CUSA are hit or miss -- some are good, with qualified competent staff, and some are lousy, with poor service. At least theres a better chance of someone having either a good Best Buy or a good CompUSA in town.
In general, I like BB, except that the salespeople are kind of "pushy" with their sales and their service/replacement plans. If you let them know that you know what you're talking about, they can be pretty helpful.

arqsagi

Jun 29, 2003, 12:28 PM

Best buy is the only computer store in my home town (well office depot and office max doesnt count), but sometimes people get frustated for the service, i am not saying all of them but most. I have never again ask for help there, and i can remember one time i was looking for a firewire cable and the sales lady ask me do check if my computer has that port, I said is an apple, "I dont know nothing about, and check" so then i found the cable and went were she was standing and show the back of the box were says firewire is a register trademark of Apple.
I have had other experiences when they try to sell the most expensive pda for mothers or students when they just want basic functions.
Now the ipods, all the boxes are on a locked cabinet on the 2 bottom shelfs were all the others mp3 players are on top shelfs, i am sure they dont sell that much ipods because of that you will have to look for somebody for service, then he had to find the one with the keys, then figure out wich one, it takes some time, they at least should have one decent sample with more information.
I see the best buy apple store a good idea as long as they carry most apple products and some compatible software and accesories with apple people in it, this may be the only way it will succed.

Lord Bodak

Jun 29, 2003, 12:55 PM

While I have seen some completely clueless salespeople at Best Buy (and every other retail store out there), they get a really bad rap. A lot of their employees take the time to actually learn the products they're selling.

The way I see it, even if the employees are clueless, it can NOT be a bad thing to put Macs in more stores. We have no Apple Store here, our one local CompUSA is a long drive away, but there are two Best Buys nearby.

Having OS X running in more stores for people to see and play with will sell machines better than anything else Apple can do.

e-coli

Jun 29, 2003, 12:59 PM

It's nice to see Apple making headway in the retail market. It should translate to higher market share (especially with their declining hardware prices. w00t!).

But I'm really curious as to how they plan to break into the enterprise market. That remains their biggest hurdle.

gopher

Jun 29, 2003, 01:17 PM

Well the general manager at Laurel, Maryland's Best Buy is very anti-Mac. In fact he chides me about liking the Mac everytime I visited there. I stopped going there. Best Buy at one point did sell iMacs, but wouldn't carry them anymore because they had to carry all five flavors at once. They need to set aside a nice Apple section like CompUSA did, and this time, I sure hope Apple gives it more visibility. The problem with CompUSA the actual store was set in the back corner of each of the stores, and it was Apple's design decision to do so. Luckily the CompUSA in Maryland has an Apple employee manning the store there, and they did actually get the nice poster of the 12" and 17" Powerbooks and Mini Me and the basketball player, and put that poster outside the store in front. Every bit of visibility counts.

NNO-Stephen

Jun 29, 2003, 01:31 PM

gopher

Jun 29, 2003, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by e-coli
It's nice to see Apple making headway in the retail market. It should translate to higher market share (especially with their declining hardware prices. w00t!).

But I'm really curious as to how they plan to break into the enterprise market. That remains their biggest hurdle.

They already have...it is called the http://www.apple.com/xserve/

My sysadmin in a Windows 2000 only office took one look at the Xserve RAID and told me to get a Windows 2000 server capable of doing what the Apple RAID can for $13,000 would cost him over $200,000! Why? The normal RAIDs now use SCSI, and Apple is using IDE. Intriguing though, it used to be Apple's cost stigma was because it was all SCSI and the PC industry was all IDE. The PC world of servers shows this has now flipped to Apple's advantage!

bitfactory

Jun 29, 2003, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by wsteineker
Ok, I'll admit that I've been with Best Buy less than a year, but I'm calling *********. We DO NOT sell service plans on items that cost less than $99. Period. End of story.

Nope, that's NOT the end of the story - i bought a spare Xbox controller there and they offered me the warranty on that 19$ part (for 4 or 5 bucks).

i don't think there is a limit, i think it depends on the product. either way, I'M calling ********* for BB's high-pressure warranty slant.

JOHNGAETANO

Jun 29, 2003, 02:06 PM

Since the nearest Apple store is 2 hours from me, and the nearest CompUsa is 45 minutes from me and the nearest Buy Best is 5 minutes from me, I would love this. Apple products would sell like mad at Best Buy if done right. They need the software to go with it. People who are switchers need to see the software thats available for the Mac.

JOHN

tlhash

Jun 29, 2003, 02:27 PM

BB is opening a new store down the street from me in the fall. If Apple moves in, I think I'll have to get a job there to off set the PC pushers. Maybe I can help bring a little intelligence to the PC buying public. Do PC buyers have intelligence???

favpseudonym

Jun 29, 2003, 02:52 PM

a massive pc software selection next to a puny mac software section will discourage switchers

e-coli

Jun 29, 2003, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by favpseudonym
a massive pc software selection next to a puny mac software section will discourage switchers

true. but how much of that software is garbage?

Lord Bodak

Jun 29, 2003, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by favpseudonym
a massive pc software selection next to a puny mac software section will discourage switchers

However, what you have right now at stores like Best Buy is a massive PC software selection and NO Mac software section (barring the rare hybrid, thank you Blizzard!). Small software selection is still better than none at all.

MacSlut

Jun 29, 2003, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
I swear I heard a tech tell this poor couple that by increasing the hard drive size you would increase the overall performance of your computer *slams head into keyboard. It wasn’t as entertaining as listening to a rep talk about how this USB 1 scanner was just as fast as a USB 2 scanner. He talked about how USB 2 could handle more devices or some other BS like that.

Your post neglects to mention if the larger hard drive would've increased overall performance and if the USB 1 scanner was just as fast as the USB 2 scanner. It's very possible both were true.

If this person had an older hard driver (often older=smaller) then perhaps buying a new (larger) hard drive would've made things much faster. Likewise if they're maxing out their smaller hard drive, a larger hard drive could help by allowing larger swap files and reducing fragmentation.

As far as the scanner, USB is often not a bottleneck for printers or scanners. It can be, but not always. Furthermore, did the computer they have feature USB 2? Again, it's very possible that the salesperson was right in saying that the USB 1 scanner was just as fast (it could even have been faster).

The point here is that often people hear a little bit about what a salesperson says and makes all kinds of false assumptions.

The other thing I have to say is that it is REALLY difficult to get good salespeople when it comes to computer products. It's hard enough with consumer electronics, but with computers the problem is that the only way someone is really going to be truly knowledgeable is if they have career experience...and even then they'll have all kinds of bias based on what they're familiar with.

The bigger problem is that if a salesperson has career experience, what are they doing working for the lower waged job of a salesperson?

Making things worse is the fact that the computer field is so incredibly broad these days. It used to be that someone just needed to know Word, WordPerfect, Lotus, Excel, dBase, BASIC, DOS, etc... to be full expert on all that was computers.

Know people go in to a store and they want an expert in Photography, or an expert on Music production, or an expert in Video production, or an expert in ______.

And the hardware and software changes way too fast to keep up with everything.

I managed a computer store. I used to say that about 50% of my time was spent on information, 25% was on management, and 25% was dealing with customers (or servicing their equipment). In addition, I was doing this while going to school at the time for multimedia studies.

Here's what should happen:

First, customers should realize that the salespeople aren't going to know everything, and in some cases may have learned something incorrectly and be giving misinformation.

Salespeople should always back up every question with printed, displayed or demonstrated answers.

"Does this have a FireWire port?"
"Yes, it's listed in the specsheet and you can see it right here."

Managers should always offer a path for salespeople to easily get answers to questions.

I find it frustrating as hell that 99% of all possible answers are easily found on the Website for the product and yet very few stores offer customers Web access.

Stores should have kiosks set up with links to all the products they sell.

Likewise a searchable FAQ database should be created for questions like, "Does this USB2 device work with a USB 1.1 port?"

Then you run into the less tangible questions...many of them should not be asked, or when asked should not be answered. What I mean by this is that of all the products in the store, it's unlikely that the salesperson could know all the information about them all, but even more unlikely that the salesperson could regularly *USE* them all.

Usually salespeople have a passion for the products they sell. This makes it easy to ask them what products they're excited about, but it makes it hard to ask them about feelings towards products they don't actually use. Usually when questions like this are asked, they are answered based on biases which may or may not match the customer's situation.

"Should I get a Mac or a PC?" is often going to be answered by the type of computer the salesperson actually uses. That's pretty obvious, but it extends to lower levels of decisions as well. The biases aren't always as easily understood and usually the question as a shortcut is part of the problem.

If someone says PC, and then is asked why, they may say, "Cheaper, faster, more expandable, more compatible, more software, more likely to remain in business, etc..."

Of course those could all be argued *directly*, but there are indirect arguments based on a person's situation that could counter those claims.

Examples:
Cheaper...
The eMac is already less than what I was willing to spend.

Faster...
No the Dual G4 is faster *for me* to do many of my tasks.

More expandable...
the MDD G4s have much more room for drives than the average PC

More compatible...
Not in my office which is mostly Macs

More software...
Not for the software I use

More likely to remain in business...
Apple is very likely to remain in business longer than the life of my products from them.

Anyway, I'm glad to see Apple getting back into Best Buy. If done right, it could be a very good thing for them. They need to invest heavily in it for presence, training and fully maintained demo equipment.

SiliconAddict

Jun 29, 2003, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by e-coli
true. but how much of that software is garbage?

Again :rolleyes: Do me a favor and actually LOOK at the software that is available for a PC before saying such things. There are a lot of good products out there. Nintendo did the quality over quantity argument as well for the N64 when it first came out and Sony soundly thrashed them by doing sorta quality AND quantity. I swear the PC world has its myths about Macs and the Mac world has its myths about PC's and I can tell you THIS is one of those myths. You don't get quality software from an OS you get it from the person sitting behind the keyboard doing the programming and contrary to popular belief (That’s aimed at you tlhash.) there ARE intelligent programmers working on the PC platform. Just look at all those virus writers. ;)

Seriously though I expected more of this when I started browsing the various Mac forums. I'm actually surprised at how little I actually see. Guess it comes with the territory. *shrugs* :-\

As much as you guys may hate to admit it 20 racks full of PC software vs. 1 rack of Apple software DOES influence a buyers purchase decision. Its the core reason I will most likely never purchase a PowerMac and instead stick with a PowerBook and hang onto a Dell Optiplex desktop for gaming.
You can call the software on the PC trash. That is your personal opinion but in the end it goes back to the 20 rows vs. the 1 that is FACT.

Macaddict16

Jun 29, 2003, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by MacSlut

I find it frustrating as hell that 99% of all possible answers are easily found on the Website for the product and yet very few stores offer customers Web access.

Stores should have kiosks set up with links to all the products they sell.

Best Buy has this. They have a direct link to almost every manufacturer of stuff they sell.

"i can say for a fact that the Apple ASC program will extend to Best Buy"

What is this? Is it a special discount program for employees or what?

For all of you who have had problems at best buy with salesmen I apoligise. I work at a best buy and I do know what you are talking about. They make us push the service like nothing else. But just because you have a a bad experience there dosn't mean everyone in the store sucks. I always do my best to answer every question the customer has and make sure the item is what the customer is looking for. I think best buy carrying apple is a good thing as long as the computer people don't trash talk them and only try and sell them the PC's

Macaddict16

SiliconAddict

Jun 29, 2003, 05:09 PM

Originally posted by MacSlut
Your post neglects to mention if the larger hard drive would've increased overall performance and if the USB 1 scanner was just as fast as the USB 2 scanner. It's very possible both were true.

If this person had an older hard driver (often older=smaller) then perhaps buying a new (larger) hard drive would've made things much faster. Likewise if they're maxing out their smaller hard drive, a larger hard drive could help by allowing larger swap files and reducing fragmentation.

As far as the scanner, USB is often not a bottleneck for printers or scanners. It can be, but not always. Furthermore, did the computer they have feature USB 2? Again, it's very possible that the salesperson was right in saying that the USB 1 scanner was just as fast (it could even have been faster).

I believe they said they had a 40GB drive on a HP Pavilion something. I just recently redid my uncles desktop Pavilion that also has a 40GB drive. The only thing that I know of that could possibly speed up a person’s computer is: A new drive with a larger cache onboard. A drive with a larger arial density. And a faster RPM (e.g. 7200 instead of 5400.) From everything I’ve ever read on the subject the biggest performance increase you will get on a hard drive is a decrease in the seek time and an increase in the RPM which are somewhat intertwined. The guy didn’t ask about the hard drive specs and honestly I don’t believe they would know. If the drive was a 40GB 7200 then a jump in the drive size wouldn’t help system performance all that much. At least not enough to warrant shelling our cash for a new HD.
As for USB. As I said I talked to these people after the rep left. They have a new Dell Dimension. It’s a guaranteed bet its USB 2 and USB can be a bottleneck depending on the size of image you are scanning. The point I was trying to make before is that the reps don’t take the time and effort for the customer. They show then to X product. Rattle off some specs. Nod their head a few times. Then leave. Your results may very from store to store but I’ve been to multiple stores around this area. I like stopping in to see what new toys are in. :-) I may have misread a few of these conversations but every single one over the years? Doubtful.

LethalWolfe

Jun 29, 2003, 05:19 PM

I wonder how much this move into Best Buy is going to cost Apple (assuming they get their own area and such). Floor space isn't cheap and currently Apple "needs" Best Buy more than Best Buy "needs" Apple.

Lethal

mkaake

Jun 29, 2003, 05:51 PM

first of all - kudos to those of you out there who noticed that whole 'apple people' thing... *duh*

what would rock:

have two g5's set up next to each other with isights attatched, with convos between the two of them... so you can walk up with a buddy and talk to each other back and forth.

that would be an awesome display, and i know more than a few computer illiterates who would be impressed just enough to start concidering the extra cost...

matt

ouketii

Jun 29, 2003, 07:00 PM

what if they put the apple machines in with the windows machines? with nothing to differentiate other than 'oo that one looks cooler'.

tlhash

Jun 29, 2003, 07:07 PM

"I swear the PC world has its myths about Macs and the Mac world has its myths about PC's and I can tell you THIS is one of those myths. You don't get quality software from an OS you get it from the person sitting behind the keyboard doing the programming and contrary to popular belief (That’s aimed at you tlhash." SiliconAddict

I didn't mention anything about PROGRAMMERS. I was talking about buyers! I don't now about you, but the 15 or 20 friends and family I know who have PC's, (without exception), have paid $1000 to $2000 for a PC, just to play games. Out of all the things you can do with $1500, buying a box to play a game is not the most INTELLIGENT. Let me know if you disagree.

iJon

Jun 29, 2003, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by tlhash
"I swear the PC world has its myths about Macs and the Mac world has its myths about PC's and I can tell you THIS is one of those myths. You don't get quality software from an OS you get it from the person sitting behind the keyboard doing the programming and contrary to popular belief (That’s aimed at you tlhash." SiliconAddict

I didn't mention anything about PROGRAMMERS. I was talking about buyers! I don't now about you, but the 15 or 20 friends and family I know who have PC's, (without exception), have paid $1000 to $2000 for a PC, just to play games. Out of all the things you can do with $1500, buying a box to play a game is not the most INTELLIGENT. Let me know if you disagree.
i payed a thousand dollars for my pc just to play games. i have to get what the mac cant provide. people play games, and they buy things to play them on, doesnt make people unintelligent.

iJon

tlhash

Jun 29, 2003, 07:17 PM

Why not a PlayStation?

Mr. G4

Jun 29, 2003, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by bobindashadows
probably iSights, iPods, anything else. Wonder if Apple will make iSight cross-platform?

It's not going to happen...iSights is Firewire...noone on PC has one...even iPod had to switch to USB2

seamuskrat

Jun 29, 2003, 07:50 PM

This afternoon, Best Buy in Valencia CA offered me a replacement guarantee for 3.50 on the Harry Potter DVD and 2.00 on a Cirque du soleil cd. They said if I scrathed it or cracked it, I could bring it back for a free replacement, the fine print sdaid for 2 years.
That was at 5:00 pm pacific time in today.

Phinius

Jun 29, 2003, 07:52 PM

I'd expect that in July Steve Jobs will announce consumer Mac models that use G4s that might run up to 1.8 GHz. Or at least that is the topend frequency for the 7457 that Motorola showed on a company internal document. The notebook computers could get a speed to 1.5 Ghz-1.6 GHz. That's due to Motorola recently starting to use a low-k process that gives up to a 20% boost in speed and yet at a lower power than those processors made without it. Either the current 7455 1.25 GHz or 1.42 GHz G4 is being manufactured with this low-k dielectric already. An increase in voltage gives the added boost in performance to reach 1.42Ghz. Add the 33% increase in frequency from moving to a smaller process size and the 7457 G4 that Apple will use should reach 1.8 GHz.

e-coli

Jun 29, 2003, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Again :rolleyes: Do me a favor and actually LOOK at the software that is available for a PC before saying such things. There are a lot of good products out there. Nintendo did the quality over quantity argument as well for the N64 when it first came out and Sony soundly thrashed them by doing sorta quality AND quantity. I swear the PC world has its myths about Macs and the Mac world has its myths about PC's and I can tell you THIS is one of those myths. You don't get quality software from an OS you get it from the person sitting behind the keyboard doing the programming and contrary to popular belief (That’s aimed at you tlhash.) there ARE intelligent programmers working on the PC platform. Just look at all those virus writers. ;)

Seriously though I expected more of this when I started browsing the various Mac forums. I'm actually surprised at how little I actually see. Guess it comes with the territory. *shrugs* :-\

As much as you guys may hate to admit it 20 racks full of PC software vs. 1 rack of Apple software DOES influence a buyers purchase decision. Its the core reason I will most likely never purchase a PowerMac and instead stick with a PowerBook and hang onto a Dell Optiplex desktop for gaming.
You can call the software on the PC trash. That is your personal opinion but in the end it goes back to the 20 rows vs. the 1 that is FACT.

Whoa...hold the 'tude there, chief. I'm saying things like Norton Disk Lock and Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing may be adding to the repertoire of software available for the PC, but that doesn't mean they're quality products. As far as doing everything I need to do with a computer, there's plenty of software available for the Mac. Games are the only exception.

Lighten up pal. We're all reasonably intelligent souls on these boards and quite capable of making founded arguments. ;)

Atradies

Jun 29, 2003, 09:39 PM

iJon

Jun 29, 2003, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by Atradies
I can easily explain to John Doe and his kid in lamens terms, but the point is that the tech was correct.
i think the point he was trying to make, and me too, is that many time best buy people recommend things that arent necessary. so buying a new hard drive to avoid fragmentation. then you gotta charge them for backing up all there data and moving it to another computer. if they were having fragp problems i would recommend them to windows system tools for a simple fix.

iJon

Centris 650

Jun 29, 2003, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by tlhash
Why not a PlayStation?

Well, speaking for myself, many of the games I want to play aren't available on console. 99.9% of all MMORPGs are non console games. I'm dying to play Star Wars Galaxies though!

iJon

Jun 29, 2003, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by Centris 650
Well, speaking for myself, many of the games I want to play aren't available on console. 99.9% of all MMORPGs are non console games. I'm dying to play Star Wars Galaxies though!
my friend bought it after being in the beta. he loves it. although they did cut many features. he also says the game wasnt ready for production, but sony released it anyways, just like planetside.

iJon

Abstract

Jun 29, 2003, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by djwu
I'm not surprised that this is going to happen. I read an article on a Canadian subsidiary of Best Buy opening up mini-Apple stores in its establishment like CompUSA a while ago. I don't remember what the Canadian store name was though.

Sorry, I couldn't be arsed to read the entire thread (no I'm not Scottish, but I like saying "arsed" ;)), but I just want to comment on the quote above. The Canadian subsidiary is called "Futureshop", since Best Buy swooped in and bought our big Canadian Futureshop chain because they have the money. Its both unfortunate and sad.

Anyway, I've seen iMacs and iBooks at a few FutureShop's close to my house. This is a recent development, me thinks. Actually, I had always thought that they HAD Apple computers at Best Buy, and so when they bought FutureShop, they were forced to carry Apple computers even though they have nobody on staff who knows ANYTHING about Macs. Nothing. Yes, I'm serious, and no, I'm not exaggerating.

HERE'S THE SCARY PART: The old 12" 800MHz iBook with Combo Drive is currently being sold at FutureShop for $1999 (ie: $2000), but the 12" 900MHz iBook with Combo Drive is being sold on the Apple.ca website for only $1850. The $1999 price tag is the same price of the old 800MHz combo model in Canada BEFORE the update 2 months ago. The price and products have not been updated, thats all.

People in Canada are generally ignorant to the Apple world, and although the 800MHz iBook still looks great sitting beside the other laptops, its not good when major details such as the pricing is so screwed up. Canada should NOT have Apple computers sold at FutureShop or BestBuy stores (they're popping up now :rolleyes: ). We should get our own Apple Stores in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal as a minimum!!!

Okay, I'm done.

iJon

Jun 29, 2003, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by Abstract
Sorry, I couldn't be arsed to read the entire thread (no I'm not Scottish, but I like saying "arsed" ;)), but I just want to comment on the quote above. The Canadian subsidiary is called "Futureshop", since Best Buy swooped in and bought our big Canadian Futureshop chain because they have the money. Its both unfortunate and sad.

Anyway, I've seen iMacs and iBooks at a few FutureShop's close to my house. This is a recent development, me thinks. Actually, I had always thought that they HAD Apple computers at Best Buy, and so when they bought FutureShop, they were forced to carry Apple computers even though they have nobody on staff who knows ANYTHING about Macs. Nothing. Yes, I'm serious, and no, I'm not exaggerating.

HERE'S THE SCARY PART: The old 12" 800MHz iBook with Combo Drive is currently being sold at FutureShop for $1999 (ie: $2000), but the 12" 900MHz iBook with Combo Drive is being sold on the Apple.ca website for only $1850. The $1999 price tag is the same price of the old 800MHz combo model in Canada BEFORE the update 2 months ago. The price and products have not been updated, thats all.

People in Canada are generally ignorant to the Apple world, and although the 800MHz iBook still looks great sitting beside the other laptops, its not good when major details such as the pricing is so screwed up. Canada should NOT have Apple computers sold at FutureShop or BestBuy stores (they're popping up now :rolleyes: ). We should get our own Apple Stores in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal as a minimum!!!

Okay, I'm done.
thats terrible, lol. same stuff happened with circuit city. many of those large canadian cities are so beautiful, i can only image how great a stylish apple store would look in the heart of montreal, especially over the big yellow tag.

iJon

tazo

Jun 30, 2003, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by Mr. G4
It's not going to happen...iSights is Firewire...noone on PC has one...even iPod had to switch to USB2

this is the biggest crock of...I have ever heard of. A lot of the new pc's, not the lowest of the low but the middle range ones are equipped with firewire. especially ones coming out of HP and Sony. To imply that no one on the pc side has firewire is stupid and utterly false. Go browse around the specs of the major desktop and notebook systems on the pc side; surely at least one will have firewire :rolleyes:

e-coli

Jun 30, 2003, 07:58 AM

It's not going to happen...iSights is Firewire...noone on PC has one...even iPod had to switch to USB2

You're forgetting that literally ALL DV camcorders (including the new consumer HD cams) have firewire. Firewire isn't going anywhere anytime soon. There's absolutely no reason for a PC manufacturer to ship models without a firewire port. They'll catch on.

JJTiger1

Jun 30, 2003, 08:05 AM

I have bought three new Mac's over the years.
-
Performa 630CD bought via call-in to MacMall catelog. (Al Gore had just invented the internet, and my second hand MacSE didn't have the hardware.)
PowerMac 6500/250 bought via walk-in to MacMall's warehouse store. Closeout-discontinued model at greatly reduced price. (56k modem and OS 8.0)
QuickSilver-733 bought via walk-in to Apple Store (Saddle Creek). Closeout model at reduced price.
=-=
I bought my Maytag laundry appliances from the Maytag store, even though BestBuy had the same brand. BestBuy did not have the model that I was looking for, so the BestBuy large appliance dept employee recommended that I should visit the nearby Maytag store.
-
My local BestBuy store has sold me a fantastic Sony home theatre sound system to go along with the largest Sony Wega flat screen TV.
-
I have found that my local BestBuy store has knowledgable and friendly staff.
-
So, if my local BestBuy sells G5's, I would expect that the computer dept employees would be familiar with Mac's. I would also check to see if BestBuy has the same Customer Service as Apple's Saddle Creek Store.

Apple's Saddle Creek store allows me to bring in my ethernet equipped Mac's so that I can hook into their T1 connection and do those really large downloads myself. No charge.

JJ :D

rjstanford

Jun 30, 2003, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
While I have seen some completely clueless salespeople at Best Buy (and every other retail store out there), they get a really bad rap. A lot of their employees take the time to actually learn the products they're selling.Ah, unfortunately more of their salespeople seem to fall into the pattern quoted a few posts above yours, "unless oyur supervisor is smarter than the avg management, you're on your own. and if, like me, you have no desire to learn the difference between an xbox and a ps2 you come across as a moron."

Why wouldn't you want to know what you were selling if that was your job? Heck, I don't know. But retail outlets -- especially ones like Best Buy that don't pay commission -- don't attract professional sales staff. And when you want to buy something but need "value added service" (ie: don't just walk in with a part number and a credit card), you want a professional sales person. The margins in computer sales (for many stores) are too low to pay them, however. This is one area where the boutique nature (and pricing) of the Apple product allows them to provide the additional service. I wouldn't expect to see anything good happen without their own employees in the stores for this very reason.

-Richard

SiliconAddict

Jun 30, 2003, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by tlhash
"I swear the PC world has its myths about Macs and the Mac world has its myths about PC's and I can tell you THIS is one of those myths. You don't get quality software from an OS you get it from the person sitting behind the keyboard doing the programming and contrary to popular belief (That’s aimed at you tlhash." SiliconAddict

I didn't mention anything about PROGRAMMERS. I was talking about buyers! I don't now about you, but the 15 or 20 friends and family I know who have PC's, (without exception), have paid $1000 to $2000 for a PC, just to play games. Out of all the things you can do with $1500, buying a box to play a game is not the most INTELLIGENT. Let me know if you disagree.

No I agree. Fully. For the price of a new PC you could get what? 6 PS2's? Sorry I misread your post.

Websnapx2

Jun 30, 2003, 09:00 AM

Kid Red

Jun 30, 2003, 09:18 AM

Damn, not many of you read the article huh/ hard to discuss a thread topic related to an article without actually reading the article? It plainly says

Earlier this month, insiders confirmed that the two companies are still considering a plan where Best Buy would sell Apple products, and Apple would staff the stores with its own employees to help boost sales.

What part own 'Apple would staff the stores with it's own employees' don't some of you understand? Some the knock that Best Buy employees don't know jack about the mac is irrelevant. This is what Apple needs, to be available to the 95%. To be available to the mass market who is in a position to purchase a computer.

Oh, and my CompUSA is very nice. It is staffed by an Apple expert who keeps install disks handy and all the machines are running fairly well and not missing too many apps. So, the anti-CompUSA knocks must come from these who visit stores that possibly don't have these Apple experts? So, while some stores may not be the ideal purchasing showcase for macs, it's the exposure, the availability of macs in CompUSA that is still very important. I buy a lot of mac stuff there and is very good for Apple. Best Buy will only help increase our market share.

jelloshotsrule

Jun 30, 2003, 09:23 AM

what people seem to generally miss is that there are dumb people in the world... some of these dumb people work in computer depts at stores like best buy...

the fact is, ALL stores that sell computers have some people who know what they're doing, and some that don't. *including* the apple retail stores.... so, i don't know why everyone is so hung up on one store or another.

surely the apple trained folks will have a higher % of knowledge that is mac specific and such... but they won't know it all

as for the hard drive being bigger helping speed and such. sure, the guy could've been out of drive space and needed more to avoid getting a big speed hit... but you don't know any better than the guy who told the anecdote that that was the exact case. it very well could've been that he had 10 gbs of files on a 40 gb drive and the guy was trying to sell him on more space. the fact is again, salesmen want to sell, and often don't recommend the proper solution as a result of that.

overall i think it's good that they sell macs in best buy. personally, i prefer best buy to any of the comparable stores (at least for cds, dvds, video games, etc)... of course, those things don't require much assistance. and i don't remember ever being offered a warranty.

IJ Reilly

Jun 30, 2003, 10:18 AM

All I can say to Apple is: don't do it! If they sell Macs like they do iPods now, they'll be locked away in cages, none will on display, and all the "help" will do when you managed to find them is explain how Apple sets the price and they don't.

iJon

Jun 30, 2003, 10:20 AM

what im curious to know is if they will sell their service plans with them (im thinking not because that would kill applecare sales) and if best buy would do their own in house service or if they will ship it to apple.

iJon

Websnapx2

Jun 30, 2003, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by iJon
what im curious to know is if they will sell their service plans with them (im thinking not because that would kill applecare sales) and if best buy would do their own in house service or if they will ship it to apple.

iJon

Apple care's service sucks anyway. If they can deal with it in-store, or better yet, just give you a new machine on the spot, I'll take that anyday before dealing with apple care. Their service sucks up here in Canada.

Anticipat3

Jun 30, 2003, 10:26 AM

It's certainly an interesting development...

The closest apple store to me is 150 miles away, and I think a lot of people have qualms about buying a computer they haven't physically seen. Many people simply think of them like a TV -- where you go, look at them, and whatever has the picture that looks sharpest to you is what you get. Very, very few computer buyers even understand the difference between hard drive space and RAM, let alone differences in processor architecture, etc.

However, there are also a LOT of people out there who have never really seen or used a mac in the flesh, and I think if the sales person for the mac would just SHOW a buyer just how easy it is to make a movie or burn a DVD on a mac, and challenge a BestBuy-PC Zealot to show the customer how to do it on a PC (it's a thousand times more complicated) and then mention that the PC software to do so is on those racks and racks of software, but doesn't come with the computer.

Even having iTunes running and letting people who haven't used it give it a try would help a lot to sell the mac and shut the PC zealots down.

There are a lot of other things that would be important to point out too... it would be important to emphasize that you aren't going to be able to play some games on the Mac -- but emphasize that in order to buy a computer capable of playing modern games anyhow will cost well over $2000 at Best Buy, and emphasize that for the price of the video card in that computer, you could buy a whole new Xbox and a few games.

Anyhow... I guess my point is that I think that a lot of people could be enlightened IF IF IF IF IF the salespeople are very educated about the Mac and its advantages. If they aren't, and aren't able to force the PC sales people to swallow the Mac advantages, then they won't be convincing enough to the customer either.

iJon

Jun 30, 2003, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by Websnapx2
Apple care's service sucks anyway. If they can deal with it in-store, or better yet, just give you a new machine on the spot, I'll take that anyday before dealing with apple care. Their service sucks up here in Canada.
well i dont think the service sucks, but even if they did do it in house, it would still be applecare, not best buy. i also doubt apple would let them give out free machines when they break. I have a feeling when this happens best buy wont have much control over what goes on in the apple section

iJon

Websnapx2

Jun 30, 2003, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by iJon
well i dont think the service sucks, but even if they did do it in house, it would still be applecare, not best buy. i also doubt apple would let them give out free machines when they break. I have a feeling when this happens best buy wont have much control over what goes on in the apple section

iJon

I don't know. That is where stores like bestbuy make alot of there money. Plus apple doesn't really give retailers too much of a price break, so they have to make ip the money somewhere. Both will have to give and take a little. I think I would rather deall with Best But's warrenty just cause of their policies, but I am sure i will end up stuck with that crappy canadian applecare service.

question fear

Jun 30, 2003, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by rjstanford

Why wouldn't you want to know what you were selling if that was your job? Heck, I don't know. But retail outlets -- especially ones like Best Buy that don't pay commission -- don't attract professional sales staff. And when you want to buy something but need "value added service" (ie: don't just walk in with a part number and a credit card), you want a professional sales person. The margins in computer sales (for many stores) are too low to pay them, however. This is one area where the boutique nature (and pricing) of the Apple product allows them to provide the additional service. I wouldn't expect to see anything good happen without their own employees in the stores for this very reason.

-Richard

I stand by what I said about coming across as a moron, but I need to make it more clear. I was placed in the media dept without any real instruction on the product, only on best buy policy as a whole. as a result, i was often clueless when helping people with video games, as I knew less than they did. My comment was related to the fact that it was not entirely my fault i was in a dept where i did not know the answer; there was no specific training on ps2 v xbox v gamecube. everything i knew i learned from grabbing another employee or my supervisor and asking them directly about the issue at hand. They did not offer or provide any furhter information.
Yes, I could have gone home and researched it, but best buy is a part itme job for me, while i completed school and wokred out what comes next. further, if they want to pretend like thier employees are more than just corporate drones (which is how they reward us-they want to see everything according to plan and thats it) they should be doing more to make it so. It wsa not in my nor any other employee's job description to use my own time to research information my workplace did not provide.
So, assuming that my experience is rather standard for an employee, it makes sense that most people on this board are concerned about Best Buy...and I hope to god they keep an Apple person around from open to close.
On the other hand, half the pc's are labelled wrong, plus they only play the same dumbass demos...so the macs might stand out nicely no matter what.
Personally, having spent lots of fun quality time retagging the laptop section, a few ibooks and pbooks over there will be a jolt...i think people will see the ibooks esp as an option, since closed they are 1/2 the thickness of an HP paperweight at around the same price and feature set (dvd-rom/cdrw, etc).
the only non-HUGE laptop we sell is a sony for 1700...and its fugly with a nasty chiclet keyboard. So on the laptop end things might be better than they appear....
--carly
(be nice to best buy employees...they're probably just as disgruntled as you are ;-))

Pete_Hoover

Jun 30, 2003, 10:39 AM

Originally posted by Mr. G4
It's not going to happen...iSights is Firewire...noone on PC has one...even iPod had to switch to USB2

PC's have firewire. It's just called by a different name, like iLink or IEEE1394.

iJon

Jun 30, 2003, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by Websnapx2
I don't know. That is where stores like bestbuy make alot of there money. Plus apple doesn't really give retailers too much of a price break, so they have to make ip the money somewhere. Both will have to give and take a little. I think I would rather deall with Best But's warrenty just cause of their policies, but I am sure i will end up stuck with that crappy canadian applecare service.
i know, that is where a lot of there money comes from, and they sell them on ipods too i believe, but apple doest sell warranties on their ipods. but i do know apple puts restrictions on with best buy because every now and then i get preferred customer coupons at best buy, and when i read the fine print it says i cannot use them on apple ipods or bose stereos. guess we will just have to wait and see.

iJon

Pete_Hoover

Jun 30, 2003, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by ouketii
what if they put the apple machines in with the windows machines? with nothing to differentiate other than 'oo that one looks cooler'.

And 'oo that one is more expensive.

Rower_CPU

Jun 30, 2003, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by Pete_Hoover
PC's have firewire. It's just called by a different name, like iLink or IEEE1394.

Actually, the IEEE group adopted the Firewire trademark, so current PCs should be calling it Firewire.

KrazyKidd

Jun 30, 2003, 10:58 AM

hey, i've been workin at BB for a few months...i got it as a summer job since im only 17. I'm heading off to college soon, hopefully w/ a 15" powerbook upgrade ;].

I know a lot of you are emphasizing that Apple Reps will be at the store to sell the products, however, the apple reps will not be the only ppl selling the products. Right now in my store, we have epson, canon, sharp, hp, and sony reps, but they dont always sell. There are usually more customers than reps, so we have to help customers out. Also, the reps are usually there only on *busy* days like fridays, saturdays, sundays, etc. I don't expect an Apple rep there all day everyday. (hopefully they are, for my store's sake).

I am by no means anti-mac, but i am a newbie and am still trying to figure out the difference between the apple and pc world. I am ready to make the switch, but for now, I would be uncomfortable trying to sell an apple to a customer. Most of you are right about the ipods, they are kept in glass cases on the bottom (as a theft issue, because of their price). But they are the 2nd best selling mp3 player, (after the iRiver). I asked one of the techs that work with me the other day about his opinion of apple and he said "they suck." ;[ If the reps train me and my employees properly, then we should be able to sell the macs pretty well...i hope

sorry to those who have had bad experience w/ BB, its hard to find a BB that really puts customers first. I feel a lot of pressure on me to sell and in turn, sometimes that pressure is put on customers.

as for the service plan on apples from best buy...it mite be a good decision to get it instead of applecare because i think its cheaper and best buy techs wont try to fix it, they will probably just send it to apple.

2 questions...
1. what is ASC?
2. What kind of discount could i get? (our discount is 5% above store cost)

whiskeybravo

Jun 30, 2003, 11:40 AM

I Dunno. As a mac user and concequently purchaser since 1984, I've seen all Apple's partnerships with the big retailers including Circuit City, Silo, Best Buy, Sears... I know this is generalizing and obviously based on one person's experiences but I have NEVER, and I do mean NEVER had a "positive" Mac shopping experience outside of a Mac specialty retailer. The best I could rate any of them was "Neutral" which loosly translates into a good selection and no salesman telling me I shouldn't buy a Mac becuase they cost more and don't run any software.

The Best Buy experience will have to be a great deal better than the last iMac fiasco. At least locally, they had a single shelf with about a dozen "Mac only" applications and absolutely no indication that there were many hybrid discs with Mac and Win applications. The sales force would steer you AWAY from the Macs at any opportunity.

There is no bad publicity/exposure, but this scares me anyway. Anyone who wants to buy a Mac will do so anyway, and a few undecided buyers will buy them just because they are there, but the great unwashed masses will keep right on buying PeeCees 'cause that is what they will be sold. I doubt many salesmen will actually try to talk a PC buyer INTO a mac, even if the primary use for the computer will be digital video, etc.

Lord Bodak

Jun 30, 2003, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by iJon
what im curious to know is if they will sell their service plans with them (im thinking not because that would kill applecare sales) and if best buy would do their own in house service or if they will ship it to apple.

iJon

To my knowledge, Best Buy's "service plans" don't do their own work anyhow. Although this may be different for computers as opposed to other electronics.

Websnapx2

Jun 30, 2003, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
To my knowledge, Best Buy's "service plans" don't do their own work anyhow. Although this may be different for computers as opposed to other electronics.

I'm not too woried about the work, more about the poicies about lemons, that they replace them. I would rather deal with a local store than, ship things back and forth.

SiliconAddict

Jun 30, 2003, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by e-coli
Whoa...hold the 'tude there, chief. I'm saying things like Norton Disk Lock and Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing may be adding to the repertoire of software available for the PC, but that doesn't mean they're quality products. As far as doing everything I need to do with a computer, there's plenty of software available for the Mac. Games are the only exception.

Lighten up pal. We're all reasonably intelligent souls on these boards and quite capable of making founded arguments. ;)

No attitude about this. Trust me. *Sinks down in his computer chair* http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/worried.gif There are enough people here to flame me into the stone age so I'd rather avoid pissing anyone off :) I've been starting to do my homework on the Mac and am aware that just about any software available on the PC is available on the Mac to one extent or other. (I have yet to find anything equal to MapPoint though.)

Two points as it pertains to this thread.

One, I never claimed that all software on the PC platform is good. Fact of the matter is that there IS a ton of filler crap on the Windows platform, just as there is a tone of filler crap on a Palm that allows Palm to claim thousands of application. I still believe that there is more good software out there then crap. Also good software is somewhat relative. Is good software defined as the app being fast? Being fully featured? Being crash proof? Or just plain being useful? If it’s the last one I would say that there is a lot of good software on the PC platform. (MapPoint 2002 is a godsend coupled with GPS.)

Secondly that to an end user looking at a cardboard box with Mac software in it and one with PC software in it doesn't tell them of the quality. All they see is multirows of PC software to a trickle of Mac software. It does make a difference. I was talking with a coworker here at work about the PowerBooks and she rolled her eye asking why I would want a Mac because of the limited software. That’s the beef I hear anytime I talk to someone about Macs. Where’s the software. The godsend is Virtual PC. For those apps I don’t want to give up I can run them. But that’s another what? $80 for that software? I always wondered why Apple didn’t have a rebate offer for Switchers that would allow you to get VPC cheap.

Anyways I guess I’m being a tad too negative about this. I suppose the fact that the store will have Apple hired employees, a fact that I totally missed sorry :o , and that the hardware will be more available for the consumer to play with is a decided plus. The rep can push home the point of quality over quantity. I’m just happy that for some of the relatives who’s Wintel computers I support; when they decide to upgrade I don’t have to tell them to drive to hell and gone to look at a Mac. Go to your local Best Buy. Much easier then driving 50 miles to an Apple store.

iJon

Jun 30, 2003, 12:44 PM

software does make a differnce, the point is best buy probably wouldnt carry all the pc software if it wasnt selling. and if its selling somebody likes it. and vpc is more expensive than that. its only that cheap if you have a windows os laying around, if not it can be upt to 200 dollars.

iJon

gopher

Jun 30, 2003, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by tazo
this is the biggest crock of...I have ever heard of. A lot of the new pc's, not the lowest of the low but the middle range ones are equipped with firewire. especially ones coming out of HP and Sony. To imply that no one on the pc side has firewire is stupid and utterly false. Go browse around the specs of the major desktop and notebook systems on the pc side; surely at least one will have firewire :rolleyes:

Most PC manufacturers that include Firewire only include 4 pin Firewire. This lacks the bus power capabilities, and other features found in the 6 pin variety. They aren't even yet to Firewire's full 1394 standard, and now Apple has 1394b. PCs are playing catch up with Apple.

favpseudonym

Jun 30, 2003, 03:26 PM

drive to hell in order to look at a mac?
i have to disagree with you.
i bet that the number of private resellers combined with all of the frys locations as well as compusa locations create more than enough places to experience apple hardware.

ouketii

Jun 30, 2003, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by gopher
Most PC manufacturers that include Firewire only include 4 pin Firewire. This lacks the bus power capabilities, and other features found in the 6 pin variety. They aren't even yet to Firewire's full 1394 standard, and now Apple has 1394b. PCs are playing catch up with Apple.

i HATE 4 pin firewire...its the bane of my existence! oh yeah, lets take out half the functionality of something, and make people use two cords, one for data and one for power! the only place i can see it is on camcorders, which don't recharge by it, but they could... its such a pathetic looking connecter too. all squiggly, unnatural. i would never buy a notebook with mini connectors. thus, i like apple.

favpseudonym

Jun 30, 2003, 04:00 PM

I doubt many salesmen will actually try to talk a PC buyer INTO a mac, even if the primary use for the computer will be digital video, etc. [/B][/QUOTE]

youre absoulutely right. on top of that we also have to ask ourselves this question-in the world of consumer electronics, which items sell more?
The BEST which are the most expensive(macs), the mid priced items that are pretty good(p4), or the really dirt cheap items that any consumer knows are cheap(celeron)?
-the midpriced sells more. I mean come on, how many people actually buy computers from Best Buy? Just look at the stores inventory. There is a bigger selection of kitchen appliances then there are computers. Most people who go in to Best Buy with thoughts of perhaps purchasing a computer there probably dont know much about buying computers, and most likely are not power users. Every Mac power user I know get there macs from either apple store, online, or mac specialty store. Every PC power user I know assemble there own PC's or maybe from dell or frys.
So all of the other consumers probably dont really know what they want. They just want something to plug into the wall and "go on e mail." These people are not power users who are very particular about what they put on their desks or in the overhead bin. These are people who for what they want to buy a computer for- a cheap pc WOULD be the best economical buy. Seeing how they will only be on it 1 or 2 times a week to get on the net or mild video and pics. THESE are the people who go into Best Buy looking for a computer. Why do they go into best buy? Because 'they sell electronics there.' These people would glance at the mac area, see how cool the computers look and be attracted. Then they will open up explorer, or word-because thats basically all they would ever really use. Then they would look at the price and gasp. After which they will browse the pc section, and open up explorer or word and experience the same exact thing. What would they say to the 1000 dollar cheaper price tag? Well they would obviously go with the pc.
It is so difficult for Apple to sell in a place like this because all the glitter and glitz of any buying experience can not correctly display what is REALLY the difference between macs and pc's. The only way any one can ever truly discover what the difference is, is by becoming a slave to the windows platform-doing what it wants you to do-downloading drivers from some website because the included cd rom doesnt happen to work with your HP.
You can not experience the pain and suffering of owning a PC as opposed to the productive, and fun environment of the mac by browsing a mac section then a pc section at Best Buy.
I think that Apple needs to come up with a better strategy to lure switchers-one that can display the REAL difference between macs and pc's.
Something other than "it just works," or "macs are so much easier"
In fact I hate that term. It really makes it sound like Macs are for those who dont understand computers, instead of identifying the fact that it is not that they are designed for computer illiterate. If you look at those two common descriptions of macs, you can see their roots. They are in reference to pc's. Meaning they just work-unlike a pc. Meaning they are so much easier-as opposed to a pc.

andrewlandry

Jun 30, 2003, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by wsteineker
Ok, I'll admit that I've been with Best Buy less than a year, but I'm calling *********. We DO NOT sell service plans on items that cost less than $99. Period. End of story.

I don't know what to tell you about that - I had someone repeatedly harrass me about getting a service plan for a gamecube controller ($35). That happened in November. I've seriously considered writing them a letter of complaint too. I always tell them no before they even ask, but then they argue with me about it. I would have stopped shopping there completely, but it's walking distance and I'm lazy.

Macaddict16

Jun 30, 2003, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by andrewlandry
I don't know what to tell you about that - I had someone repeatedly harrass me about getting a service plan for a gamecube controller ($35). That happened in November. I've seriously considered writing them a letter of complaint too. I always tell them no before they even ask, but then they argue with me about it. I would have stopped shopping there completely, but it's walking distance and I'm lazy.

By the way if you would have let the employee do their job you would have known it was a replacement plan and it was only like 5 dollars. I have seen many hardcore gamers use their replacement plans because the buttons have been used so much they stopped working. It is people like you who make us HAVE to keep pestering. I don't push the service as much as most people but as soon as someone won't listen or won't even let me talk that is when I start to push. Just let the person do there job, it only takes a min. for you to listen and if you don't want it after they tell you then ok, but at least let them do their job.
Sorry about venting it wasnt at you andrewlandry, just at people who wont let salesman do their job. If you don't want to deal with salesmen (which their job is to SELL) order online.

Macaddict16

iJon

Jun 30, 2003, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by Macaddict16
By the way if you would have let the employee do their job you would have known it was a replacement plan and it was only like 5 dollars. I have seen many hardcore gamers use their replacement plans because the buttons have been used so much they stopped working. It is people like you who make us HAVE to keep pestering. I don't push the service as much as most people but as soon as someone won't listen or won't even let me talk that is when I start to push. Just let the person do there job, it only takes a min. for you to listen and if you don't want it after they tell you then ok, but at least let them do their job.
Sorry about venting it wasnt at you andrewlandry, just at people who wont let salesman do their job. If you don't want to deal with salesmen (which their job is to SELL) order online.

Macaddict16
you dont help buying a gamecube controller. and he is letting the salesmen do their job. i am a salesman myself, and when i ask a customer if they need help and they say no thanks, i let them know where there office is and they can come fine me. and usually they do if they ahve a question. people at best buy remind me more of robots then salesmen, thats just my opinion though :) no hard feelings

iJon

Doctor Q

Jun 30, 2003, 07:21 PM

I have gotten both knowledgable and unknowledgable help from CompUSA Apple reps. But the rest of the staff often gives lousy PC advice, so I don't think Apple has MORE of a problem in that regard. Sometimes, the problem is that there's only one Apple rep, while anybody else can help you with PCs. So if the Apple rep is on his or her break, there is no help/advice available at all.

But... bottom line: having Macs on display at Best Buy gives Macs a presence where millions shop, and that's worth a lot. If you have to go to a speciality store to find Macs in the first place, then only people who are sure they want a Mac are going to be in there, and all those impulse shoppers won't even consider a Mac.

So I think the Best Buy development is good news, despite the few known problems.

andrewlandry

Jun 30, 2003, 07:22 PM

hey, i wasn't trying to be mean to the salespeople. i actually tried to be real with them and explain that i often buy things from BestBuy more than once a week, but that i'll never be interested in buying any form of insurance for my purchase because i'm crazy and i live on the edge.

i tried explaining that as a chronic BestBuy shopper, the only thing that bothered me was feeling pressure to buy service plan/replacement thingy/whatever like every other day when I buy something. i also tried explaining that i understand it's their job to try and sell me the service plan, but could i please check out in peace this one time.

what happened?

"But sir, what if something happens to your $35 game pad..." etc. for a few minutes.

i looked at him and said, "I'll be screwed."

he shook his head and rang me up.

actually, all of this thinking about has made my mind up. no more Best Buy for me.

iJon

Jun 30, 2003, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by Doctor Q
If you have to go to a speciality store to find Macs in the first place, then only people who are sure they want a Mac are going to be in there, and all those impulse shoppers won't even consider a Mac.
thats not true, the walk in their because they are curious, many arent sure about macs, but they've heard friends talk abotu them or commercials. thats when you explain to them about the computer and then they are sold on one. but i will tell you right now, not everyone who walks into a specialty shop is ready to buy a mac with their credit card out.

iJon

tazo

Jun 30, 2003, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by iJon
thats not true, the walk in their because they are curious, many arent sure about macs, but they've heard friends talk abotu them or commercials. thats when you explain to them about the computer and then they are sold on one. but i will tell you right now, not everyone who walks into a specialty shop is ready to buy a mac with their credit card out.

iJon

I can certainly agree with this, as I have seen this so many times at the local Apple Store. I see people walk in, take a look at like the iPods or the iBooks, say "those are cool, how much are they?...you get all that for that price?? wow". etc etc.
I think that for certain purchases people walk in prepared, but when wandering through the mall and you suddenly come upon an all-white mecca, things are bound to be different.

Aoide

Jun 30, 2003, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by Doctor Q
But... bottom line: having Macs on display at Best Buy gives Macs a presence where millions shop, and that's worth a lot. If you have to go to a speciality store to find Macs in the first place, then only people who are sure they want a Mac are going to be in there, and all those impulse shoppers won't even consider a Mac.

Totally agree with this. A potential switcher slipped through my fingers because she went into Best Buy and made an impulse decision. She had all the normal PC biases against the Mac but was very open to my conversations with her.

And then .... poof.... she went to Best Buy "just to look" and out she came with a HP laptop. I believe that if there were Apple laptops also there she would have come back to me with some more questions. It wouldn't have been an impulse buy that day.

Oh well.... I told her good luck.... She's one of my best friends so I could get away with a slight trace of sarcasm:D

Lord Bodak

Jun 30, 2003, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Macaddict16
By the way if you would have let the employee do their job you would have known it was a replacement plan and it was only like 5 dollars. I have seen many hardcore gamers use their replacement plans because the buttons have been used so much they stopped working. It is people like you who make us HAVE to keep pestering. I don't push the service as much as most people but as soon as someone won't listen or won't even let me talk that is when I start to push. Just let the person do there job, it only takes a min. for you to listen and if you don't want it after they tell you then ok, but at least let them do their job.
Sorry about venting it wasnt at you andrewlandry, just at people who wont let salesman do their job. If you don't want to deal with salesmen (which their job is to SELL) order online.

Macaddict16

Trying to sell replacement and/or service plans to people who have made it clear they aren't interested is EXACTLY the kind of thing that gives Best Buy salespeople a bad name. For some things, I'll consider the plan. If I don't want it, I'm going to tell you right away before you waste 5 minutes explaining something to me when I've already decided-- you could be using that time to sell it to someone else who has NOT decided yet.

favpseudonym

Jun 30, 2003, 10:41 PM

apple stores are SUITED for power users and potential switchers alike. They are SUITED for both. Putting macs where more shoppers are just for the sake of having more eyes on the product would be a horrible move-why? The same reason why you dont find gucci in Wal Mart. Gucci knows that would demean their line. (and no its not logical to bring up the fact that high end brands like sony sells products in Wal Mart- they already established their name in the 80's to the entire world and dont have to validate ANYTHING-apple still needs to) Face it-at this point unfortunately macs are a LUXURY. Yes they are more accesible to more users than ever, but they are still a luxury. I have been using macs and pc's since i was 8 years old. My dad bought me a mac se in 89 when i was 12 years old and i will always be a mac person-but I still believe that my mac is a luxury.

Kid Red

Jun 30, 2003, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by favpseudonym
apple stores are SUITED for power users and potential switchers alike. They are SUITED for both. Putting macs where more shoppers are just for the sake of having more eyes on the product would be a horrible move-why? The same reason why you dont find gucci in Wal Mart. Gucci knows that would demean their line. (and no its not logical to bring up the fact that high end brands like sony sells products in Wal Mart- they already established their name in the 80's to the entire world and dont have to validate ANYTHING-apple still needs to) Face it-at this point unfortunately macs are a LUXURY. Yes they are more accesible to more users than ever, but they are still a luxury. I have been using macs and pc's since i was 8 years old. My dad bought me a mac se in 89 when i was 12 years old and i will always be a mac person-but I still believe that my mac is a luxury.

Sorry, but Best Buy sells some high end 'consumer' electronics. There are higher end products out there then what Best Buy stocks, but I don't see the G5 as an untouchable type Bang & Olufsen. I see Apple as a Bose type, and Circuity City sells Bose, not WalMart.

Also, Gucci isn't hot anymore, Gucci is so 80s.

favpseudonym

Jun 30, 2003, 11:20 PM

First of all Gucci was just a reference to get the point across (in case you havent noticed-as far as the fashion world is concerned-everything is retro now anyhow!!)

Also- I think that your comment displays why macs shouldnt be in Best Buy.
"I see Apple as a Bose type, and Circuit City sells Bose, not wallmart."

BEST BUY is the wal mart of electronics. JUST look at the name "best buy." Maybe, just maybe, many people go to best buy to actually get the best buy.

ALL of apple prices are standard. It doesnt matter if you buy from apple store online, or an apple retail store, compusa, frys, or a specialty store. THE PRICES are all the same anyhow.
So how would Best Buy even live up to their name? They can offer other high end products at prices that are competitive with circuit city or good guys. They will not be able to do that with Apples. What are they going to do, bundle the macs with software? This is definiitely a possibility, but its not very probable.

Doctor Q

Jul 1, 2003, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by favpseudonym
ALL of apple prices are standard. It doesnt matter if you buy from apple store online, or an apple retail store, compusa, frys, or a specialty store. THE PRICES are all the same anyhow.
So how would Best Buy even live up to their name? They can offer other high end products at prices that are competitive with circuit city or good guys. They will not be able to do that with Apples. What are they going to do, bundle the macs with software? This is definiitely a possibility, but its not very probable. They can bundle them with inkjet printers, which are practically free these days anyway. Then they can sell you a service contract, ink cartridges, glossy paper, cables, etc., and make lots of money.

favpseudonym

Jul 1, 2003, 01:27 AM

thats true, but i think that most consumers dont really care about those things, they want a SYSTEM that is cheaper. On top of that, do you think that apple would allow them to offer a warranty cheaper then apple care as part of their partnership? -currently, most computer buyers are on at least their second computer purchase, and may want to use their old printers.

Doctor Q

Jul 1, 2003, 01:42 AM

OK, how 'bout selling Macintosh training? iLife programs may be easier than most PC programs, but there are still many first-time buyers who might sign up for the package deal if they got "free" lessons with their purchase. Of course, lessons are labor intensive, so a store couldn't give you much training, just a simple "getting started" lesson.

favpseudonym

Jul 1, 2003, 01:51 AM

there are ups and downs to anything
that is definitely an up
-a posh mac section with a small theater with i life and os x classes-so pc users can see.

tazo

Jul 1, 2003, 03:12 AM

Originally posted by Aoide

And then .... poof.... she went to Best Buy "just to look" and out she came with a HP laptop. I believe that if there were Apple laptops also there she would have come back to me with some more questions. It wouldn't have been an impulse buy that day.

Oh well.... I told her good luck.... She's one of my best friends so I could get away with a slight trace of sarcasm:D

I tell that to customers at the compusa help desk with their 9lb hp laptops. I tell them, you could get the same funcitonality in a lighter, more efficient package, that looks cooler, and will just work. sometimes they get really excited and ask what type of comp is that, then i point them to the apple section. then they usually go back to snubbing me :)

brandon_deal

Jul 1, 2003, 10:00 AM

this would be great, best buy and apple need to be together, i think

JJTiger1

Jul 1, 2003, 10:12 AM

Originally posted by favpseudonym
ALL of apple prices are standard. It doesnt matter if you buy from apple store online, or an apple retail store, compusa, frys, or a specialty store. THE PRICES are all the same anyhow.
{snip}
What are they going to do, bundle the macs with software? This is definiitely a possibility, but its not very probable.

www.macmall.com

Yes, MacMall and their outlet store, has a slightly lower price than Apple on the same machine, and they do bundle in printers, ram, and software.

BestBuy can do the same thing.
=-=
Splitting hares: makes them easier to cook on a grille. :D
-
JJ

CompUSAMacNerd

Jul 1, 2003, 06:55 PM

Alrightie. Hi. I've been watching this thread for a bit and I finally decided to stop being a peeping tom and actually register myself. :)

I want to stick up for my lowly CompUSA up here in California. I work out of one of the smaller stores in my region, yet, we have one of the top three highest Apple contribution sales.

The reason why? Well... we actually have a good crew of people who are salesmen, that are Mac User's and actually know what they are talking about. Its true tho', you'll find a few stores where you just have a bunch of dumb asses, and some that has intelligent people. CompUSA isn't all that bad, or else I wouldn't have stayed now for over five years, but still-- give some retailers a break :) I know there is a few Best Buy employee's out there who are pretty darn good knowledge wise as well. The BB where I live at has at least two people that are pretty smart when it comes to PC's.. but, I haven't picked their brains on Mac yet.

I guess it depends on what store you hit. An who is working that time. My Apple rep that works in my store is a genius and he has a following of Mac Groupies who sit about and pick his brain all day. He's well researched, he's on top of everything and he is enthusiastic.

If Best buy is to survive with apple, they need Apple employees like that. I know the BB down by us has a bad rep for hiring morons. It happens. We got our share of morons at my place also :) But at least we're somewhat Mac proficient! :)

If BB an Apple starts working out.. well.. I guess thats cool. I'm an avid Macaddict. I'm glad to see them in more places... even if its the.. 'competition'. :)

MacFan25

Jul 1, 2003, 08:05 PM

I think that this could work out to be a really good partnership, both for Apple and for Best Buy. I think that generally Best Buy is a good store, but most of their workers probably don't know that much about Apple, so I think that Apple should and will put some reps in there to help customers.

I think that this could really get a lot of switchers too! :D

favpseudonym

Jul 2, 2003, 03:01 PM

you know what really pisses me off? is when a worker in the apple store doesnt know a damn thing. The times that i have been to the apple store in both Pasadena and Glendale, there are damn kids who work there who dont know anything about macs.
i think apple would be hard pressed to find individuals to put into bb that are knowledgable about macs

iJon

Jul 2, 2003, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by favpseudonym
you know what really pisses me off? is when a worker in the apple store doesnt know a damn thing. The times that i have been to the apple store in both Pasadena and Glendale, there are damn kids who work there who dont know anything about macs.
i think apple would be hard pressed to find individuals to put into bb that are knowledgable about macs
i know exactly what you mean. ive been into some and a guy is explaining his problem to the genious and he doesnt have any idea what is wrong. but i know exactly whats wrong but i dont butt in because i dont want to make him feel stupid.

iJon

Doctor Q

Jul 2, 2003, 07:09 PM

I was shopping for digital answering machines last week. As I always do when shopping for gadgets, I researched on the web and read a lot of specs, and even a few user manuals in PDF form, to decide what I wanted. Then I went to Best Buy to see which were in stock and to check prices. A senior citizen was looking befuddled with so many phones, answering machines, and phones with builtin answering machines around him. The salesperson could read the boxes and point out prices but didn't start with the basic question they should always ask - what are you looking for? So I asked the man and he said he just wanted a simple-to-use answering machine. I wanted something fancier myself, but I explained his choices (having just read the manual for the one he was holding). He decided that he didn't mind the cheap one that had a single LED (blinks n times for n messages) instead of one with a two-digit LCD number-of-messages display, and he didn't want to pay for caller ID, so he thanked me and went off to buy the one that suited him best.

This is not the first time I've turned into a pseudosalesperson while shopping myself. I did the same thing this morning in an Office Depot where a lady was shopping for an inkjet printer. I'm a sucker for people who need help with something about which I feel knowledgable.

I was about to ask all of you why salespeople don't routinely ask "what do you want?" and explain the choices that suit a customer's purpose, but I just realized what the answer must be: They don't offer enough help because I'm always there to do their job for them! ;)

themadchemist

Jul 12, 2003, 04:47 PM

I hope not! They took the money Apple gave them to advertise and pushed PCs instead. Those leeches!

But on the other hand...A lot of people go to Best Buy, though it is terrible and disgusting.

tazo

Jul 12, 2003, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by Doctor Q
I was shopping for digital answering machines last week. As I always do when shopping for gadgets, I researched on the web and read a lot of specs, and even a few user manuals in PDF form, to decide what I wanted. Then I went to Best Buy to see which were in stock and to check prices. A senior citizen was looking befuddled with so many phones, answering machines, and phones with builtin answering machines around him. The salesperson could read the boxes and point out prices but didn't start with the basic question they should always ask - what are you looking for? So I asked the man and he said he just wanted a simple-to-use answering machine. I wanted something fancier myself, but I explained his choices (having just read the manual for the one he was holding). He decided that he didn't mind the cheap one that had a single LED (blinks n times for n messages) instead of one with a two-digit LCD number-of-messages display, and he didn't want to pay for caller ID, so he thanked me and went off to buy the one that suited him best.

This is not the first time I've turned into a pseudosalesperson while shopping myself. I did the same thing this morning in an Office Depot where a lady was shopping for an inkjet printer. I'm a sucker for people who need help with something about which I feel knowledgable.

I was about to ask all of you why salespeople don't routinely ask "what do you want?" and explain the choices that suit a customer's purpose, but I just realized what the answer must be: They don't offer enough help because I'm always there to do their job for them! ;)

I become a salesman too lol at electronic stores sometimes, like you said because the real staff just aren't helping. I remember I was at office max for like pens, and i stopped to look at the cellphones. a guy is looking at pdas, and the guy just wants your basic functionality. Lo and behold the saleman is trying to push the latest microshaft gadget on the guy and i got the guy to go buy a zire. although i told him to go buy it somewhere better like a compusa or something. lol.

if people dont do there job what are ya gonna do? :)

Mav451

Jul 12, 2003, 10:59 PM

alot of ppl have brought up that salepeople and people in general are not computer proficient. That's expected.
That aside, i'm going to describe the situation in my area:

There are 2 bestbuys in less than 15 minute drive-radius.

On the other hand, there is the same number of Compusa's (people in Maryland should know of the one in Montgomery Village and 355 Federal plaza).

NOW--the nearest apple store to me USED to be on Muddy Branch (close to my house). Now it's gone...probably went out a few years ago. I have to drive 30-40 minutes to Virginia to Tyson's Corner mall JUST to see an apple retailer.

Imagine if the 2 bestbuys were to now carry Macs. Convenience and the sheer "I HAVE to go out of the way" would be eliminated. I don't have to cross the stateline/get on 495 just to get to an Apple retailer. I can go on local roads to the nearest bestbuy.

In addition, with the 2 compusa's, the Apple retailers in my area would have effectively DOUBLED. More exposure is ALWAYS better than none. ALWAYS. Even if just a small portion of the "usual" BB buyers/viewers (sometimes i jsut walk around the store looking at what they have) will see this "new" unknown area or the "hey i saw this in compusa".

All it takes is a small % of interested buyers--which will garner the interest of other buyers. Again, obviously some experienced salepeople will be needed but one you get it rolling, having them retailed across the US will definitely help get them out there to the public.

favpseudonym

Jul 13, 2003, 12:58 AM

if bang and olufsen audio products were sold in every best buy in the country, would sales of bang and olufsen go up or down???

j33pd0g

Jul 13, 2003, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by favpseudonym
if bang and olufsen audio products were sold in every best buy in the country, would sales of bang and olufsen go up or down???

Well, that all depends on if the CEO of the whole chain wanted to push those sales. I personally had never heard of them, so if I went to best buy someone would have to know about them to tell me. I looked them up online now, and so now I know... but not every one will do this. So the answer I think will be determined by what the best profit will be, and or belief in product.

thebossisback

Jul 13, 2003, 08:42 AM

I realy dont like bestbuy

Doctor Q

Jul 13, 2003, 11:03 AM

I read a business article that said that Best Buy is doing well, while Circuit City and Good Guys are having trouble competing and are rethinking their strategies. In Los Angeles, I would rank the chains from best to worst as follows for the most selection and the best prices: Fry's, Best Buy, CompUSA, Good Guys, Circuit City. For expertise of the salespeople, it's a hit or miss thing, so I couldn't put them in any order at all.

question fear

Jul 13, 2003, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by thebossisback
I realy dont like bestbuy

funny, me either.
while i have disliked my job a bit over the last few weeks, i was overhearing training for the sales people (i dont currently work in sales) and it shocked me how much best buy sounded like a store i would never want to shop in...they were telling the employees to push the best buy card really hard, to not take no for an answer, etc.
i was sick to my stomach, and hated that i was employed by people who purport to care at all about what they sell, when in reality they'd happily sell monkey crap if they could make a decent margin on it.
and i know, i know....all business are like that. but i think you can be a business and still have an investment in your product, and not an investment in retail per se.
thats the difference.
thats why i am so angry i have to work there until i find another job...its not that i couldnt find another job, its that any good job takes time to procure, and i can't get another job for a small stopgap.
so don't shop at best buy unless you loooooove the hard sell, and people who are only out for their stupid success banners from "getting every single dollar that walks into this store".
--carly

Doctor Q

Jul 13, 2003, 02:15 PM

Another point to keep in mind: Different stores have different stock. Even the most knowledgeable salesperson is more likely to tell you about the models his/her store stocks than those they don't. Another reason not to rely solely on salespeople for your information.

I just opened my mail and found my new "Reward Zone" card from Best Buy. It's free if you don't mind them tracking your purchases and sending you targeting mailings. You get a $5 coupon after every $125 spent, which is equivalent to a 4% discount. Since I do my own research and comparison shopping and I don't rely on the salespeople for technical advice, I go there simply to save money.

One funny note: My Reward Zone statement says "You get 100 Reward Zone points for nearly every dollar you spend on eligible products and services." What do they mean by nearly!? The fine print explains which items are not eligible. But if they also exclude some "eligible" items from the program, what does "eligible" mean? They either have a bad editor or a clever lawyer!

bcsimac

Jul 13, 2003, 05:39 PM

Look, I feel your pain! I worked for CompUSA as the Mac guy for four years. We are told to sell EW or don't eat. Basically, everybody is expected to sell at least 45 percent EW for the overall sales that person had. No ifs, ands, or buts about it........don't sell EW.....don't have enough to eat, pay rent, or eventually have a job at all! Now that CompUSA has switched to commission only pay off of EWs and systems.......you have to sell EW to even survive......no choice! Realize man....CompUSA employees don't get crap for selling software and accessories unless they sell training, DATS, or some service plan......I am dead serious......if you don't sell some service on software and accessories....then you don't get commission and you don't get paid.....period! By the way computers only get you 1% commission......the only way to make enough to pay the bills is to sell the EW or something because then at least you get 6%! Could you live off no pay for software or accessory sales and only make 1% commission on computers? I don't think so! Think about it....if you sell a $499 pc package and no EW, then all you get is $4.99 commission from that sell. You can't even get a meal at McDonalds in Boston for that kind of pay! By the way, even the employees had to get EW's on their own purchases or face getting a nasty yelling from the managers! By the way, those guys were only doing their jobs....don't give them more abuse than they already get from the managers for not producing the numbers.....it is awful hard in the trenches!

Originally posted by bitfactory
<way off topic>
not just HIS store... the two where i live are exactly the same way... i've already written a letter to the Best Buy Corp office on the high-pressure way they try to sell you the extended warranties on EVERYTHING. i bought a mid-size WEGA television in there not too long ago and was pressured to buy the extended warranty at the counter in the back (said, "no thanks" - "why?" - "uh, the chance of anything going wrong with this television after the warranty are nil'" - "well, wouldn't you feel safer knowing..." - "nope, just ring it up"...

made my way from the back to the front with the TV on the cart... got to the front door to show the guard my receipt and was harrassed AGAIN for not buying the EW. after turning it down two more times to him, i finally couldn't take it anymore and went OFF on him...

jesus, just take NO for an answer... extended warranties from companies like Best Buy are a JOKE. they make SERIOUS money off of it, less than 4% of people who buy the policies ever use them (PrimeTime Live, 2002).
</way off topic>

that said, it'd be nice just to get the exposure... but i only buy CDs there now... they don't sell warranties for them.

question fear

Jul 13, 2003, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by Doctor Q
Another point to keep in mind: Different stores have different stock. Even the most knowledgeable salesperson is more likely to tell you about the models his/her store stocks than those they don't. Another reason not to rely solely on salespeople for your information.

I just opened my mail and found my new "Reward Zone" card from Best Buy. It's free if you don't mind them tracking your purchases and sending you targeting mailings. You get a $5 coupon after every $125 spent, which is equivalent to a 4% discount. Since I do my own research and comparison shopping and I don't rely on the salespeople for technical advice, I go there simply to save money.

One funny note: My Reward Zone statement says "You get 100 Reward Zone points for nearly every dollar you spend on eligible products and services." What do they mean by nearly!? The fine print explains which items are not eligible. But if they also exclude some "eligible" items from the program, what does "eligible" mean? They either have a bad editor or a clever laywer!

yea, the reward zone thing is weird.
no one really understands what it does.
half the employees think its a star market card.
the other half think its every .01 spent, not ever 1.00 spent.
and i bet best buy excludes anything they dont make a big phatty margin on.
sketchy b*st*rds.
anyhow.
disgruntled rant over.
return to regularly scheduled gripes.
:-D
--carly

Farside161

Jul 13, 2003, 06:17 PM

giving macs more exposure is a good idea, but doing so at stores like best buy, CompUSA and Fry's is not a good idea. why, because all of the people that i know who buy macs buy them because they need them for there work, not because they like iphoto or itunes of any of the other great apps and features bundled with macs today. all the sales people who work at those stores don't know what there talking about, they just want to sell you the most expensive stuff in the store. thats why i buy all my macs from a west coast chain the mac store (formaly The computer store) the guys that run that business have been selling apples since apple was formed (yes they sold apples even before the mac was created). the people that run that store know what their talking about and are a very informated resource.

bcsimac

Jul 14, 2003, 08:45 AM

Excuse me, but I think you are over generalizing all the salesman who work at these stores. Some of us do know what we are talking about and are just as dependant on the Mac as you are. I used to work for CompUSA for 4 years. I have been an ADC member since 1995. I have been an Apple tech since 1997. I have used Macs since 1984. I have owned a Mac since 1995. I went to MacWorld Expo, Seybold, and NAB regularly. I had subscriptions to about every Mac magazine on the market. I made it my business to know as much as I could about every Mac product in development. I spent several hours of my day downloading drivers, software updates, freeware, shareware, patches, and etc......and I did this everyday. I made it a point to try to obtain as many NFR copies of software as I could; and if none was available, I went out of my way to save money to buy the product. I also signed up for a bunch of beta tests so that I could become more familiar with the product before it shipped so that if a customer complained about a crash or bug I could help them out or at least email the engineers at the developer so that they could get a bug fix out. I did this on $8.00/hr pay.

I had several colleagues that I worked with who were just as knowledgeable if not more. I had one friend who used to make shareware games as a side job. He knew more about programming than I would have even imagined. He was very creative in his game making. He had been using Macs for over 10 years at the time. I had another colleague who worked for Harvard University as a Senior Mac Systems Administrator and also worked part-time as a Mac technician for CompUSA. He had been using Macs since they first came out. I had another colleague who had been a special education teacher and had used Macs for many years and was very good at making demos and presentations and movies for demostration. He was very knowledgable about education software offerings for the Mac.

You might want to say "most" and not "all" sales people at these stores don't know what they are talking about. You might be just putting your foot in your mouth. Some of us really cared about our customers and wanted to only sell what they needed....."not the most expensive stuff in the store."

Originally posted by Farside161
giving macs more exposure is a good idea, but doing so at stores like best buy, CompUSA and Fry's is not a good idea. all the sales people who work at those stores don't know what there talking about, they just want to sell you the most expensive stuff in the store..

Horse

Aug 1, 2003, 01:28 PM

Apple needs to make sure that they have their own staff out in the field at these Best Buy stores training current BB staff on how to sell Apple products.

Just sticking their products on the shelves isn't enough if the poor salesmen don't know what the hell is going on!

I know people get so fed up having to deal with some dude that doesn't know his butt from a whole in the ground when it comes to Apple (and other) products - but at the end of the day it's the corporations fault for giving the right training and placing the right people in the right spot.

Apple has a responsibility to make sure they provide Best Buy with the right tools (informational and otherwise) to move Apple products out the door becuase we all know they aren't going to sell themselves except to current users like ourselves.

Horse

MacGuy283

Aug 1, 2003, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Farside161
giving macs more exposure is a good idea, but doing so at stores like best buy, CompUSA and Fry's is not a good idea. why, because all of the people that i know who buy macs buy them because they need them for there work, not because they like iphoto or itunes of any of the other great apps and features bundled with macs today. all the sales people who work at those stores don't know what there talking about, they just want to sell you the most expensive stuff in the store. thats why i buy all my macs from a west coast chain the mac store (formaly The computer store) the guys that run that business have been selling apples since apple was formed (yes they sold apples even before the mac was created). the people that run that store know what their talking about and are a very informated resource.

if stores like best buy, compusa and frys shouldnt sell apple to get more attention, where are they going to sell them walmart? i dont think so.

bcsimac

Aug 1, 2003, 02:35 PM

You guys act like Apple is all that much better than the rest of these companies at hiring Mac knowledgable people at the retail level...I got news for you......it isn't so! I trained an Apple hired retail rep.....he was a fomer cell phone salesman who admitted to me that he had never used a Mac before in his life and was kinda embarrassed that he got hired over me who was much more knowledgable than he was.

Les Kern

Aug 1, 2003, 03:42 PM

Hmmm. It reminds me of those made-for-TV movies where the battered wife continues to go back to her abusive husband. But I guess if Apple ever wants to capture more of the market, they'll have to keep going back.

Muigleb

Aug 5, 2003, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by schweb
Are you kidding me? Best Buy does have a chain wide problem of hiring sub par employees. I have been to Best Buys in multiple locations in multiple states and have such horrendous service that I have not stepped into a Best Buy in over a year and I will NEVER go back again. I have rarely if ever heard anyone in person or on a message board say anything positive about their "Best Buy experience"

i always have a possitive BB experience. i go in know what im going to buy, buy it with an excelent payment option, and never have to talk to a bestbuy employee till i get to the register. of course i know more then the people at BB and yes most of them are lacking in knoweledge in one point or another, but if you never have to talk to them whats so bad about that. i would hope that anyone that post on this page wouldnt need their help anyways.

capitalhood

Aug 5, 2003, 08:39 PM

BEST BUY could have no employees none, and having the macs there would still help, macs are sooooo much better that just having them insight, in person, would help. Remember, when most people buy a computer mac doesn't even cross their minds, but if they see a mac next to some crappy dell they might go and check, apple dot com and if they do they'll head deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole until they end up buying a mac... phew... now stop bashing best buy and recognize that apple in person is the best way to sell apple stuff.... sigh... man that tired me out...:confused:

jaedreth

Aug 5, 2003, 08:48 PM

I used to work for Sears. *gasp* (In fact, it was the second real job I ever had, working for an orthotics and prosthetics company owned by my grandpa and dad doesn't count.)

I was on a Seasonal job working small electronics back when Sears was selling Performas.

And wouldn't you know it, the macs were in complete disarray, and I couldn't help them out much because they no longer had the cds.

Every once in a while, a customer would walk over to one of the Macs, while I'm sitting over by telephones and little tiny radio players, and one of the commissioned sales folk would try to convince them to sell a PC. They would trash talk it and all. The customers would often retort that they really came here for a mac. So I would walk in, and say, excuse me. May I help you? Keep in mind, I couldn't make a sale, but I could find out what the customer wanted, and usually those old performas were more than the average sears going mac lovers would ever need. And then when the customers were ready to buy the mac, I'd go to the one lady who *wasn't* a PC/computer person, and give her the sale. Because I sure wasn't going to let one of those pc bigots get it.

How does this relate to best buy?

Education.

If this whole process means that the best buy employees aren't bashing Macs and trying to get them to buy PC's instead, and better yet, *some* of the stores have *actual* Apple employees, then the situation would be *infinitely* better than what it currently is and has been.

So I give a big two thumbs up.

FYI, in my area, the only place to get a decent mac from people of any competence is Fry's Electronics. They have their own Mac aisle, and it's nice. They don't have anyone working there near as mac savy as I am, however, they do have a lot of very smart people there, and I have never once heard one of the sales reps trying to push a customer from mac to pc. Usually the mac customers know exactly what they want anyways.

Jaedreth