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View Full Version : Rush Limbaugh: Apple's the best but lose the politics


Macmaniac
Jun 29, 2003, 06:01 PM
Here's an interesting article Read (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_062703/content/across_the_fruited_plain.guest.html)
Well I'm no republican but at least he helps Apple's bottom line.

rainman::|:|
Jun 29, 2003, 08:35 PM
i didnt bother reading the article but i know he's been plugging Macs for many years now... i think he started with a Quadra or PM6100. i have mixed feelings; his endorsements are what lead to my dad buying me my first iMac, on the other hand i think he should die and go to the Ignorant level of hell. But whatever :)

pnw

tazo
Jun 29, 2003, 09:03 PM
:rolleyes:@Paul

Politics aside, i think an endorsement from a well known individual is great for promoting Apple. Glad to see more celebrities using macs :)

andrewlandry
Jun 29, 2003, 09:19 PM
I listened to the audio stream. That's a pretty glowing endorsement, although I'm not sure what he meant by saying that it was Apple's political views that were holding them back from reaching a larger audience. Does he mean that Apple was not interested in advertising on his show? I could see that happening, which actually is unfortunate because his listeners have bucks and support the products that advertise on his show.

I agree with him that it's ridiculous that Apple isn't more mainstream due to the superiority of its products.

Everyone I meet that has a PC wants to switch after seeing my with my Macs, but it's crazy that so many people haven't gotten to see one in person before seeing mine.

I think it's time for Apple to make a serious dent in the desktop market.

MrMacMan
Jun 29, 2003, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by tazo
:rolleyes:@Paul

Politics aside, i think an endorsement from a well known individual is great for promoting Apple. Glad to see more celebrities using macs :)

Ha, I didn't know this guy untill he made fun of a person who I like...

Read a quote which now includes Algore, that it's accepting lower sales. What a shame. (even though this isn't the person I said about)
Notice that they say one word Algore, is algore a person, cause I though it was AL Gore who worked at apple.
This annoys me how even when you don't think they are making fun of a person, they really are. You think that aint on purpose? Thats how this guy lives.

The article they DO link to is very nice:
http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,6661914%255E21669,00.html

Tho the clip, arg even listen to the first line.

'Superior in every way... With iTunes making a profit' Well yes, apple is superior, BUT then he lies.

0 Quarters have gone by where apple gets money from iTunes market. 0, they didn't get money before they released it!
'So constrined by political view' WTF?

Do people think Apple = Liberal THEREFORE THEY DON'T BUY?

WTF!

Do I say 'Fox', makes fox news therefore don't watch any Fox programming?

Hell No, what is this logic?

dr_spudboy
Jun 29, 2003, 09:51 PM
As a Republican and a Rush Limbaugh fan I would have to say he is wrong. Apple's politics don't keep its market share, its a combination of ignorance of the gerenal public and price. Many people out their still think Macs cannot run Word and crucial software of the like, and Apple doesn't market enough to the budget conscious types who will buy a $500 Dell over a $1400 iMac. Rush could be a key to increasing their market share though, enough people listen to him and if Apple paid him to endorse Macs on a daily basis just like he does with a multitude of other products it could increase market quite considerably, politics aside.

Frohickey
Jun 29, 2003, 11:57 PM
Originally posted by dr_spudboy
As a Republican and a Rush Limbaugh fan I would have to say he is wrong. Apple's politics don't keep its market share, its a combination of ignorance of the gerenal public and price. Many people out their still think Macs cannot run Word and crucial software of the like, and Apple doesn't market enough to the budget conscious types who will buy a $500 Dell over a $1400 iMac. Rush could be a key to increasing their market share though, enough people listen to him and if Apple paid him to endorse Macs on a daily basis just like he does with a multitude of other products it could increase market quite considerably, politics aside.

Agreed. Its not the politics that hampers Mac sales, though, having AlGore in your board of directors doesn't help. AlGore is a very polarizing figure in politics, and there are probably some would-be Mac-switchers who are turned off. That is not what you want to do.

I saw several people at the Keynote NOT applaud when Stevo had AlGore up on the screen. I, myself, kept my hands crossed, in the interest of full disclosure.

Besides, doesn't GWBush use Macs. I remember reading and seeing pictures of GWB in front of a Powerbook.

What everyone here should be saying is that EVERYONE, Democrats, Greenies, Libertarians, Republicans, etc should be using and buying Macs! This 'I-use-Macs-and-I-don't-like-Republicans-so-they-shouldn't-be-using-Macs' does not help things any.

PowerBook User
Jun 30, 2003, 12:54 AM
I think dr_spudboy is right. The general public doesn't know much about Macs. However, if more people get to see them in person, it can really help. This is especially true of the iMac and PowerBook g4 (they are so sleek). I'm glad Apple is opening some stores to actually show people!

tazo
Jun 30, 2003, 12:56 AM
i think we can all agree getting influential people to endorse apple products is key. I think its asanine to put a political affiliation on a computer.

MrMacMan
Jun 30, 2003, 01:13 AM
I agree with dr_spudboy, who do I not agree with MrMacMan is asked well I don't agree with Frohickey.

Originally posted by Frohickey
Agreed. Its not the politics that hampers Mac sales, though, having AlGore in your board of directors doesn't help. AlGore is a very polarizing figure in politics, and there are probably some would-be Mac-switchers who are turned off. That is not what you want to do.

100 To 1 the person doesn't know who the CEO of the company is, do you know who each of the board of directors is? I don't, now please don't go to the apple website, see if you can name more then Steve and Al Gore.

BTW, why do people have a problem with sayind 'Al Gore' instead of (wtf is this?) 'AlGore' notice the rather big key under the 'C, v, b, n, m, ',' and '.' keys you see that?

Use it!
I saw several people at the Keynote NOT applaud when Stevo had AlGore up on the screen. I, myself, kept my hands crossed, in the interest of full disclosure.
Next time your at a shareholders meeting vote the board down why don't ya?


Besides, doesn't GWBush use Macs. I remember reading and seeing pictures of GWB in front of a Powerbook.

What everyone here should be saying is that EVERYONE, Democrats, Greenies, Libertarians, Republicans, etc should be using and buying Macs!
First, are people goint to really ponder what computer George has? Really, he could ask congress for a billion dollars for computers and get every model from every manufacture, I'm sure he has tons.

This 'I-use-Macs-and-I-don't-like-Republicans-so-they-shouldn't-be-using-Macs' does not help things any.

Where... Where, Where do you see this?

I think everyone here agrees the publicity is great and that no one is going to question if a company is for or against their political views... Seriously man.

BTW, you left out many political parties in your everyone statement. :rolleyes:

Frohickey
Jun 30, 2003, 02:06 AM
Show Mr Customer a picture of AlGore and he'll tell you that he's the one that ran for president and lost in 2000. Chances are, 50% of the people did not vote for him either. Thats pretty polarizing.

As to using the space bar or not, are you being Mr Censorship Man? I'll type it the way I want you, you can complain about it if you want to. Nice to live in a free country, no?

About the attitude of 'I-use-Macs-and-I-don't-like-Republicans-so-they-shouldn't-be-using-Macs', I read that on some other forum, trying to find a picture of GWBush in front of a Powerbook. And it wasn't just an isolated comment.

The 4 political parties I listed were the ones that had the most people voted into office during the past election cycle. Maybe I should have put Reform as well, but since they have imploded because of Buchanan...

tazo
Jun 30, 2003, 02:46 AM
don't libertarians (spelling?), believe that the less government there is the better things will be? like not anarchy (no gov) but just less gov?

pseudobrit
Jun 30, 2003, 02:47 AM
You know what's polarizing? Advertising on a biased talk show with a controversial figure who's been called a hate-monger and a Nazi. It's the same reason so many companies will not advertise on Howard Stern's show.

pseudobrit
Jun 30, 2003, 02:49 AM
Originally posted by Frohickey
As to using the space bar or not, are you being Mr Censorship Man? I'll type it the way I want you, you can complain about it if you want to. Nice to live in a free country, no?

And if I call Bush Shrub or Chimpresident, you'll respect my carefully prepared unbiased opinion with the same weight as if I had called him something not so dehumanizing?

tazo
Jun 30, 2003, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
You know what's polarizing? Advertising on a biased talk show with a controversial figure who's been called a hate-monger and a Nazi. It's the same reason so many companies will not advertise on Howard Stern's show.

because rush limbaughs topic of the day is bigger boobs? :D

I love how people just loosely throw around the term nazi. same as with communist. I bet less than half the people who use those terms know what historically they represent. I don't think Rush Limbaugh was responsible for the killing of 6 million Jews. :mad:

pseudobrit
Jun 30, 2003, 02:54 AM
One more thing: no company chooses politics over business or they're not in business very long. Apple would not choose politics over increased sales.

Apple's been around for awhile and they're not going anywhere (much to the dismay of those who have been prophesying its demise for the past 10+ years).

TimDaddy
Jun 30, 2003, 03:05 AM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
You know what's polarizing? Advertising on a biased talk show with a controversial figure who's been called a hate-monger and a Nazi.

He is not a hate-monger or a Nazi. Just a sometimes childish man who is more a comedian than political anylist. I know many right-wing extremists that consider Al Gore a baby-killing, anti-American, friend of terrorists. He's not. I know many conservatives who weren't interested in Apple products because Steve is a liberal, and they don't want to support liberals. Al Gore joining the team didn't help any. Should Al Gore quit? No. Should Apple advertise on a conservative program? Yes. Doesn't have to be Rush, but it should be someone he leans a little to the right would show that they want EVERYONE'S business, not just the business of those who think the same way Steve and Al think.

alia
Jun 30, 2003, 08:05 AM
Liberal or conservative aside, I thought it was kind of ironic that he thought being too political was hurting their market share... he obviously hasn't had his popularity or pocket book hurt by his political views...

This is business, not politics, though. Apple's bottom line is what they are concerned about, ultimately. If it wasn't, they wouldn't bother being in business.


Alia

jayscheuerle
Jun 30, 2003, 08:25 AM
Let's see... Their computer line is the most expensive in the industry, effectively pricing themselves out of the range of any lower income family, who is enthralled at being able to buy a $500 no-name PC package.

Doesn't sound too Liberal to me. I'd say they were more Green than anything.

anonymous161
Jun 30, 2003, 09:55 AM
Apple's "liberal" slant has little or nothing to do with their success in the market place. Like has been said, pricing is what kills mac sales because when the average person goes to buy a computer they look at price and what they "get" for the money. This is why mHz matters so much. The bottom line is the bottom line, no matter how much better your products are, the more you charge the less you will sell. That said, why on earth did Apple put someone like Al Gore on their board. This is the same man who chaired senate hearings on censoring music (he and his wife were trying to "protect" their children), the same man who arbitrarily claimed to have "invented the internet" and the same man who took how much money from the chinese? Maybe if Apple wanted to get some better manufacturing deals in china, then I could see where Big Al would come in handy. Or maybe they are doing research into artificial intelligence, I mean, he is a pretty affable and gregarious for an automaton isn't he?

rueyeet
Jun 30, 2003, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by TimDaddy
I know many conservatives who weren't interested in Apple products because Steve is a liberal, and they don't want to support liberals.

And that kind of thinking is why people like Rush get called hate-mongers. Are liberals so awful, so deplorable that anyone would restrict their computer purchase choices on that basis? Must even buying a computer be politicized? Sheesh. :rolleyes:

I would hope that people like that are on the raving fringes of backwoods lunacy, rather than constituing a prime chunk of Apple's targeted demographics!

Really, what's so terrible about liberals? I hear the word tossed around like an epithet so very many times on conservative-leaning shows that I wonder if they think it means what I think it means.

(Besides, why should Apple pay for advertising time on Rush's show if he's willing to do the job for free? :D )

Groovsonic
Jun 30, 2003, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
You know what's polarizing? Advertising on a biased talk show with a controversial figure who's been called a hate-monger and a Nazi. It's the same reason so many companies will not advertise on Howard Stern's show.

First, dosen't calling someone a nazi make you a hate-mongerer, unless of course they are really a nazi?
I have never once heard Rush spewing anti-semetic (he is actually very pro-Israel) or nazi sympathizing things. I have never heard him cite hitler as a hero. I have never heard him advocate a return to the fatherland, or any talk of a master race, aryan power or anything else like that. What excatly makes him a nazi?
He, of course, isn't a nazi. People should be careful how they use that word. When you apply it to everyone you dissagree with, you lessen the power of that word.

Secondly, the reason people are typing "Algore" instead of Al Gore, is that is how Rush says it. It is a joke referring to his stiff personality. He has been doing it for years.

You may not like rush, but he is a Mac user. He does have an extremely popular program, and exposure from his show certianly dosen't hurt Apple.

Just my thoughts...

MrMacMan
Jun 30, 2003, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by Frohickey
Show Mr Customer a picture of AlGore and he'll tell you that he's the one that ran for president and lost in 2000. Chances are, 50% of the people did not vote for him either. Thats pretty polarizing.

You didn't address that few people know the CEO (and who cares?) and how many people are going to care who in on their Board of Directors!


As to using the space bar or not, are you being Mr Censorship Man? I'll type it the way I want you, you can complain about it if you want to. Nice to live in a free country, no?

Feel free to call Al 'AlGore' even though how can you diss a person who doesn't even post at this forum... :confused:

Would you be made if I called you AlGore instead of Frohickey? Maybe that is what I will do, I will address the Board member Al Gore and you as AlGore.


don't libertarians (spelling?), believe that the less government there is the better things will be? like not anarchy (no gov) but just less gov?
Yes.
Originally posted by TimDaddy
I know many conservatives who weren't interested in Apple products because Steve is a liberal, and they don't want to support liberals. Al Gore joining the team didn't help any. Should Al Gore quit? No.
Really? Wow, you have really conservative friends, who wouldn't even invest in a company, JUST because of Steve? Damn they are not only missing out on great products but segregating themselves, I didn't know people did that anymore. MrMacMan though we moved into the 21st century.

Originally posted by rueyeet
Really, what's so terrible about liberals? I hear the word tossed around like an epithet so very many times on conservative-leaning shows that I wonder if they think it means what I think it means.

They think it means communist, which again is somehow means a bad this again.

Groovsonic, nazi as in invading other countries, and believing that they are superior to others.

Das
Jun 30, 2003, 11:12 AM
Nazi is the new playground term used by people who don't have anything factual to say but rather rely on name-calling. In twenty years, we'll probably be calling people Taliban’s or French.

Anyhoo, Rush is more entertaining than anything and for the most part, under the layers of overacting, he has a lot of great points. This however isn't one of them, but it does touch up on a subject about Apple's marketing. They are egotistical, unfriendly, and downright dumb. If only they could match their advertising with their cool design style that pretty much says, "you want me" they could rake in some serious dough. Heck, a 30 second ad just showing the “suck” feature of the windows would make a million more converts. To say that this is the root of Apple's problems would be foolish since their main problem lies in the threat of competition, but still it wouldn't hurt...well, unless they made an Apple Dude... *shiver*

pseudobrit
Jun 30, 2003, 12:21 PM
Jesus... I never called him a Nazi.

Reading comprehension, people...

Advertising on a biased talk show with a controversial figure who's been called a hate-monger and a Nazi.

Howard Stern's been called a pedophile and a pornographer (among other things), though he's neither. I don't think it's in Apple's best interests to promote their products on his show either. You want to get your product noticed without generating negative attention.

macfan
Jun 30, 2003, 01:08 PM
It would be a great idea for Apple to advertise on Rush Limbaugh's show. A lot of people of diverse political opinions listen to him, and a lot of them buy computers.

Al Gore has been called a Nazi, too, but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea to have him appear in Steve's keynote or have him on the board.

pseudobrit,
Jesus... I never called him a Nazi.

No one said you called Jesus a Nazi.

Groovsonic
Jun 30, 2003, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
Jesus... I never called him a Nazi.

Reading comprehension, people...

Howard Stern's been called a pedophile and a pornographer (among other things), though he's neither. I don't think it's in Apple's best interests to promote their products on his show either. You want to get your product noticed without generating negative attention.

I never said YOU called him a nazi. I was just pointing out the irony of that statement. It would be like me calling someone an intolerant ******. See the irony?


I really like Howard, and I certianly don't think he is a pedophile, but you don't think having women get naked for the TV cams, covering their buttocks with cream cheese and throwing bagels and lunchmeat the them makes him slightly suceptible to the "pornographer" title? I am not saying he is one. I listen to him all the time. I also listen to rush. Personally, I think Apple should advertise on both shows. And Dr. Laura, and the Daily Show, and Martha Stewart. Then they would be covering ALL the bases.

Besides, if the image of the rich, fat, white, cigar smoking republican is even half true, then Rush is the best show to advertise on. They can afford $3000 powermacs.

(also, I am white, republican and slighly overweight. When are they gonna send me some cigars and money to complete the image?)


F.Y.I, reading comphrehension is one of my strongest mental suits. If I remember correctly, I got a perfect score on that part of the ACT, so there!

MuHahahahaha!!!!

katchow
Jun 30, 2003, 02:46 PM
you know this is all pretty funny...

talking about politics affecting sales...microsoft was in and out of an anti-trust case for an extended period of time...i wonder, did they suffer a sales loss? maybe they did, maybe they didn't, i don't have the facts at hand (i'm guessing no terrible loss though)... i know this is a bit off-topic but it seems to me there are a few other things that should turn you off about buying a computer than just the fact that there's a liberal on the board...

also, rushlimbaugh may be pro-mac, but i recall hearing him rant to no end about how the gov't should just get off microsofts back...to him everything microsoft has done was fair game...i guess there are those who would agree with this...but it still blows me away.

Durandal7
Jun 30, 2003, 02:56 PM
I prefer to call him iGore. It just seems so much more appropriate.

Apple should start radio advertising on a lot of shows. I would like Apple to start running adverts on Coast to Coast AM as well as Rush.

Frohickey
Jun 30, 2003, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
And if I call Bush Shrub or Chimpresident, you'll respect my carefully prepared unbiased opinion with the same weight as if I had called him something not so dehumanizing?

I'll respect your right to compose your message any way you see fit to. As to respecting your opinion, I don't have to do that at all, especially if I see holes in your logic.

As to whether Algore, or AlGore, or Al gore, or alGore, or Al Gore is dehumanizing or denigrating, that is up to the reader. If I wanted to be dehumanizing, I would have called him after the lead character in a Pixar movie. :D

Sonofhaig
Jun 30, 2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by andrewlandry
I listened to the audio stream. That's a pretty glowing endorsement, although I'm not sure what he meant by saying that it was Apple's political views that were holding them back from reaching a larger audience. Does he mean that Apple was not interested in advertising on his show? I could see that happening, which actually is unfortunate because his listeners have bucks and support the products that advertise on his show.

I agree with him that it's ridiculous that Apple isn't more mainstream due to the superiority of its products.

Everyone I meet that has a PC wants to switch after seeing my with my Macs, but it's crazy that so many people haven't gotten to see one in person before seeing mine.

I think it's time for Apple to make a serious dent in the desktop market.

I consider myself a "Conservative", and listen to Rush, but I think he's way off target on sales being hampered because of any political views the CEO has.
I could care less how Steve or anyone else in Apple votes! They make great products, and that's all that matters! I personally thought it was hilarious that Al Gore was ichatting. And I agree with you. Apple is about to turn market share around......

P-Worm
Jun 30, 2003, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by macfan

No one said you called Jesus a Nazi.

That is one of the funniest things I have read in a while. Thank you.

P-Worm

QCassidy352
Jun 30, 2003, 05:44 PM
Rush just assumes the causal connection between a liberal board of directors and hampered market share. He doesn't at all explain where the link is... IMO, this is just Rush seeing things through political glasses because that's what he always does (for better or worse).

tazo
Jun 30, 2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by QCassidy352
Rush just assumes the causal connection between a liberal board of directors and hampered market share. He doesn't at all explain where the link is... IMO, this is just Rush seeing things through political glasses because that's what he always does (for better or worse).

I agree with you. its like the people who call choosing vanilla over chocolate racist. :D. Or tires are black, the black man carrying the white man :P

MacRumorSkeptic
Jun 30, 2003, 09:47 PM
I consider myself a "Conservative", and listen to Rush, but I think he's way off target on sales being hampered because of any political views the CEO has.
I could care less how Steve or anyone else in Apple votes! They make great products, and that's all that matters! I personally thought it was hilarious that Al Gore was ichatting. And I agree with you. Apple is about to turn market share around......

When Rush says their politics get in the way of sales he's saying that Apple is unwilling to advertise on HIS show because of HIS Republican/Conservative view points. If Apple DID advertise on his show they would most likely increase their marketshare immensly. A lot of Rush's listeners are small business owners, have good money to spend, and would listen to his recomendation.

BaghdadBob
Jun 30, 2003, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by tazo
i think we can all agree getting influential people to endorse apple products is key. I think its asanine to put a political affiliation on a computer.

I haven't read all the replies here, but tazo is right on the money here. Look, for those of you who never see the other side of the aisle, this is a very real issue. I didn't need Rush Limbaugh to tell me that Apple's -- or should I say Steve's -- politics are to close to the surface.

What, Rush Limbaugh wouldn't be good in a switcher ad? Love him or hate him...well, either way there are as many of one as the other. And what about the military? Many bases around the country rely on Macs.

But would you ever know it? No. Steve is too proud to admit that any conservatives or conservative organizations use Apple's products. It's rediculous.

And look at what they were doing around the time of the Iraq war -- they put Al Gore on the BOD and negotiate to buy a French corporation. You think that wasn't intentional? I don't.

Anyway, look guys, I don't give a good god damn if you're a lib or conservative, if you are going to pretend this isn't an issue then...well I might as well expect you to say next that there is no liberal bias in major news media (excluding Fox). Ignoring something because you're on the same side of it doesn't make it not real.

funkywhat2
Jun 30, 2003, 10:19 PM
How about we say that Rush and Al are both facists, and Steve is one of Al's Black Shirts? Does that make everyone happy?

Before everyone says how adverts on Rush's show would help Apple, we ought to see the current state of Mac politics. If Conservatives aren't cureently using Macs, whose to say that more of Rush ranting about them would help? Something tells me that not even Rush can say that much of his audience.

Those of you who say that you hate whatever side and then slam that side for being "hatemongers" or "Nazis" don't seem to notice that your hatemongering isn't hgelping your cause any.

BaghdadBob
Jun 30, 2003, 10:33 PM
Sayeth the black man "white people are so racist"....

It's funny how someone can say there's a mysterious imaginary connection between liberals and communism and then say "was communism supposed to be a bad thing or something?"

Look, the point is that LOTS OF CONSERVATIVES USE MACS. Just as liberals look up to liberal celebrities and organizations more, conservatives look up to conservative celebrities and organizations more. So therefore...why is it a big dirty secret that many famous conservatives like to use macs? Do you not call that poor marketing sense, to ignore a demographic? That is the issue. The demographic is being ignored in advertizing, on radio, in print, on television, and in choice of endorsers. Period. That's ignoring a demographic. Ignoring a demographic which has significant buying power is bad marketing. DUH!!!!

And I will personally kick the ass of the next person who lightly tosses around the term Nazi. That just pisses me off to the core.

tazo
Jun 30, 2003, 11:05 PM
Originally posted by BaghdadBob
I haven't read all the replies here, but tazo is right on the money here. Look, for those of you who never see the other side of the aisle, this is a very real issue. I didn't need Rush Limbaugh to tell me that Apple's -- or should I say Steve's -- politics are to close to the surface.

What, Rush Limbaugh wouldn't be good in a switcher ad? Love him or hate him...well, either way there are as many of one as the other. And what about the military? Many bases around the country rely on Macs.

But would you ever know it? No. Steve is too proud to admit that any conservatives or conservative organizations use Apple's products. It's rediculous.

And look at what they were doing around the time of the Iraq war -- they put Al Gore on the BOD and negotiate to buy a French corporation. You think that wasn't intentional? I don't.

Anyway, look guys, I don't give a good god damn if you're a lib or conservative, if you are going to pretend this isn't an issue then...well I might as well expect you to say next that there is no liberal bias in major news media (excluding Fox). Ignoring something because you're on the same side of it doesn't make it not real.

Exactly. I consider myself conservative, and I cannot think of any time in my life except for one, where someone's political affiliation has had any influence on me. The exclusion was when one of my friends told me every soldier was likened to a rapist and a criminal because of some of the atrocities committed against civilians in Vietnam. I wanted to punch him it upset me that much. But I maintained control, and made a hate-thatfriend.com website ): lol.

Frohickey
Jul 1, 2003, 02:29 AM
Conservative, Liberal
Communist, Fascist

It doesn't matter. Macs are tools. Apple sells Macs. They shouldn't care who buys the tools, as long as they buy the tools from Apple.

tazo
Jul 1, 2003, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by Frohickey
Conservative, Liberal
Communist, Fascist

It doesn't matter. Macs are tools. Apple sells Macs. They shouldn't care who buys the tools, as long as they buy the tools from Apple.

Are you implying the opposite of communist is fascist? :D Cuz it isnt :)

MrMacMan
Jul 1, 2003, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by tazo
Are you implying the opposite of communist is fascist? :D Cuz it isnt :)

Yeah, I thought Nazism is the opposite of Communism...
Since Liberal ~ Conservative -- and when you go further to the end of the spectrum...
Communism ~~ Libertarianism .

Hm... whatever...
http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/images/axeswithnames.gif

here (http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/analysis2.html)

ColoJohnBoy
Jul 1, 2003, 12:20 PM
Help me try to understand why people place so much stock in the views of a man who doesn't even bother to consult all sides of an issue before forming an opinion on it. It simply defies common sense.

As for Al gore being a polarizing fiigure in politics, he isn't. The majority of people (Approximately 95%) base their opinions on political leaders not on their views or beliefs, but on whether they would want to sit down and have a cup of coffee with the guy. Before the election Al gore was perceived as stiff and boring. Put him next to Dubya, and he looked dead. But to call him polarizing based on that factor is to give in to the unfortunate ignorance of the majority of American voters.

Vote for Howard Dean in 2004!

Visit Blue Pudding!
http://bluepudding.1hwy.com

pseudobrit
Jul 1, 2003, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by MrMacman
Yeah, I thought Nazism is the opposite of Communism...

Nazism is fascism, and fascism is the opposite of communism.

Fascism is a corporate state, where corporations control the government.
Communism is a state collective, where there are no corporations.

You're blurring economic systems with politcal systems, which is easy enough to do, because people don't like to think that there can be combinations of good and bad/ right and left.

Nazi Germany was a fascist dictatorship, CCCR was a communist dictatorship.

rueyeet
Jul 1, 2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by BaghdadBob
"was communism supposed to be a bad thing or something?"

Actually, communism as an idea wasn't bad. It's the implementations that blew it. It's a lot like Christianity, actually: great idea, if only everyone did it right and those nasty human tendencies like greed and powerlust didn't keep getting in the way. The Bible implies that the early Church was run on a communist model, where everything was held in common and distributed according to need. I don't have a Bible to hand to look up chapter and verse for you, though.

Originally posted by BaghdadBob
"Look, the point is that LOTS OF CONSERVATIVES USE MACS...why is it a big dirty secret that many famous conservatives like to use macs? Do you not call that poor marketing sense, to ignore a demographic?

Ignoring a demographic is only a mistake when it's actually big enough to hurt you. Again, I'd hope that the kind of people who are rabid enough to base their computer purchases solely on politics are not a significant demographic. And conservatives' Mac use is not a big dirty secret by any means, either, not with Rush trumpeting them on his radio show and Bush using a PowerBook in the White House.

I don't think Apple's policy is to avoid advertising on conservative media so much as it is to avoid advertising time during anything that could be so controversial as to cause them problems. And Rush is a hot point, no two ways about it--really not so much for his views, but for the big mouth he uses to express them. The man's just offensive on a regular basis. That's all very well and good if you're rooting for his side, but advertising on something like that may very well piss off more people than it gains them.

BaghdadBob
Jul 1, 2003, 03:28 PM
Conservatives aren't a small enough group to ignore. OK, I'd like to know what conservative media they do advertise on. Is it FoxNews? Hardly a backwoods demographic, it is the highest rated cable news channel in the country. How about conservative newspapers and magazines? Celebrities?

Now, can you name liberal media and celebrities that they advertise with?

I don't think Rush is whining because they won't advertise on his show. It's the general strategy.

And I wasn't implying that conservatives thought it was a big dirty secret they use macs, I was saying that Apple found it a big dirty secret that conservatives use macs. Go to their features page...there are a ton of features in there of Macs in pro environments. One story on a military base? No. One single story on anyone of a conservative persuasion? No. Liberal persuasion? Yes. They seem to have dropped the story about the "United States of Whatever" guy. Oh, that's not provocative at all...And yes, that was the title of the article, obviously designed for shock value as the story itself hardly said a damn thing about his "United States of Whatever" project.

Look, prove me wrong. If you can find some conservative media they publish in, or a conservative celebrity or pro endorsement, then I will concede it. And match it.....

Frohickey
Jul 1, 2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by BaghdadBob
And I wasn't implying that conservatives thought it was a big dirty secret they use macs, I was saying that Apple found it a big dirty secret that conservatives use macs.

There are both conservatives and liberals within Apple, just like in mainstream America. In fact, I work with a pro-environmental liberal that thinks GWBush is the Apeman, and I work with the person pretty well. Me, I'm a pro-gun conservative and I can work with most anyone. Its certain industries that are not as 'diverse'. Hollywood, for example, which is maybe one of the markets that a certain iCEO is pursuing.

BaghdadBob
Jul 1, 2003, 05:27 PM
Right, but who they have within their organization does not generally have anything to do with marketing or PR...unless you go and hire Al Gore, then it actually makes news, but not even that by itself equates to an overall marketing strategy.

mactastic
Jul 1, 2003, 09:38 PM
I was sorta under the impression that it was apples high prices and lack of a g5 that were hampering its sales, not steves political views. Except for the rabid few on the extreme ends of the spectrum, I doubt a CEO's political views make all that much difference in the companies sales. Most people just buy products that suit their needs, IMHO.

tazo
Jul 1, 2003, 09:51 PM
Originally posted by MrMacman
Yeah, I thought Nazism is the opposite of Communism...
Since Liberal ~ Conservative -- and when you go further to the end of the spectrum...
Communism ~~ Libertarianism .

Hm... whatever...
http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/images/axeswithnames.gif

here (http://www.digitalronin.f2s.com/politicalcompass/analysis2.html)

I am still confused. And AFAIK nazism is not a political system.

MrMacMan
Jul 1, 2003, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
Nazism is fascism, and fascism is the opposite of communism.

Fascism is a corporate state, where corporations control the government.
Communism is a state collective, where there are no corporations.

You're blurring economic systems with politcal systems, which is easy enough to do, because people don't like to think that there can be combinations of good and bad/ right and left.

Nazi Germany was a fascist dictatorship, CCCR was a communist dictatorship.

Yeah I was thinking that...

Meh...

Originally posted by tazo
I am still confused. And AFAIK nazism is not a political system.

Well dictionary.com thinks its an ideology so... (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=nazism)
The ideology and practice of the Nazis, especially the policy of racist nationalism, national expansion, and state control of the economy.

Phil Of Mac
Jul 19, 2003, 12:02 AM
Under fascism, business seizes control of government and performs its function as well as its own.

Under communism, government seizes control of business and performs its function as well as its own.

In both cases, the same group of people performs both functions. So they are in reality the same. The opposite, true capitalism, separates business and state more or less like the separation of church and state.

Originally posted by funkywhat2
How about we say that Rush and Al are both facists, and Steve is one of Al's Black Shirts? Does that make everyone happy?

He does wear the shirt :)

Phil Of Mac
Jul 19, 2003, 12:03 AM
Originally posted by MrMacman
Read a quote (even though this isn't the person I said about)
Notice that they say one word Algore, is algore a person, cause I though it was AL Gore who worked at apple.
This annoys me how even when you don't think they are making fun of a person, they really are. You think that aint on purpose? Thats how this guy lives.

He uses the term "Algore" as a reference to a 1992 satirical skit that he ran on his program depicting Clinton and Gore as Dr. Frankenstein and his faithful assistant, Algore. It's one of Rush's many inside jokes. (He also calls himself "America's Truth Detector" because Clinton once complained that right-wing talk radio doesn't have a truth detector.)

Originally posted by Frohickey
Besides, doesn't GWBush use Macs. I remember reading and seeing pictures of GWB in front of a Powerbook.

What everyone here should be saying is that EVERYONE, Democrats, Greenies, Libertarians, Republicans, etc should be using and buying Macs! This 'I-use-Macs-and-I-don't-like-Republicans-so-they-shouldn't-be-using-Macs' does not help things any.

A recent Apple print ad said, "Both of our last Presidents--a Democrat and a Republican--use Macs."

Edit: Sorry, didn't see that this thread had been dead for awhile. I came here from a newer thread on the same topic, and found more here to reply to.