Do you want a 2-buttons mouse? [Archive]

Chrisnorth

Mar 19, 2002, 06:57 PM

Macs have long had support for actions that could be facilitated with a two button mouse; "command-click" or "click and hold" are just not as ergonomic as a right click.

The operating system basically already supports the second button; it just needs to be implemented in the hardware. I'm sure that anyone who really dislikes the second button could continue to use the time tested methods mentioned above.;)

MacAztec

Mar 19, 2002, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
Mac = Simple and neat.

1 Button mouse = Simple and neat.

It makes sense for the Mac to have a simple mouse to go with the simple gui.

I like my Apple Pro Mouse!

2 button mouse=even simpler. no command+click, now, its just click.

And, scrolling web pages will be easier!

bobindashadows

Mar 19, 2002, 07:24 PM

Oooh im bustin the rhymes...

I'd buy one. My current 2 button/scroll doesn't work with mac os x for some reason, even tho mac os x has built in two button/scroll support. But, it should definitely be a build to order option, because mac's are commonly used in education and by the elderly. Grannies and todlers don't work too well with two button mice. So they should definitely go build to order on this one.

germanknee

Mar 19, 2002, 07:42 PM

i have a wacom graphire pad with a 2 button/scroll wheel mouse. i enjoy it quite thoroughly. i work much more quickly with it. apple should provide a 2 button/scroll wheel mouse.

also, i would like to see improved keyboard navigation. it's still not the greatest in osx, and bearly existent in os9.

germanknee

Mar 19, 2002, 07:43 PM

barely

i'm retarded.
also, i think that a shape change in the mouse might be necessary for a two button mouse to feel comfortable.

davincijones

Mar 19, 2002, 08:07 PM

I recently purchased a G4 tower to replace my family's old PC. I'v eused macs before but I'm th eonly one in my family. They loved it when we first booted it up but once they started using it they all complained about the mouse. It moved to slowly (even the tracking speed was maxed) and they hated the fact that it didn't have a wheel like our old pc. I'm the only one out of the four of us that knows anything about computers but they all thought that the mac was slow and akward. They used it for about a week but didn't like using the mac at all. So I went and bought a cool looking logitech mouse with a second button and a wheel and they love using the mac. They like the fact that it's cool looking, easy to use AND NOW easy to control.

The rest of my family is really very computer illiterate but they are not confused by a second button. I showed them how they could hold down the apple key to replace the second button and they looked at me like I was an idiot.

Apple needs a two button mouse. If someone else in my fmily had bought the computer they wouldn't of even known it could use a two button mouse.

With a two button mouse I feel like my Powermac could rule the world. I love it.

Also I have a friend who uses linux but is thinking about getting a mac. He wanted to try it out but despised the mouse. He even told me that if it didn't support a two button mouse he definitely wouldn't buy one.

Taft

Mar 19, 2002, 08:19 PM

And if anyone can do it better, its Apple.

Matthew

eyelikeart

Mar 19, 2002, 08:46 PM

I just like the 1 button mouse....have used 2 button mice and don't really see the "need for it"...

I already bitched a bunch about it earlier in another thread so this is it from me....:o

Beej

Mar 19, 2002, 09:11 PM

If Apple made a two button mouse with a scroll wheel, I'd buy it and be happy to use two buttons.

If Apple made a one button mouse with a scroll wheel, I'd buy it and be happy to use one button.

I don't care how many buttons my mouse has, I just want a scroll wheel!

mac15

Mar 19, 2002, 11:37 PM

1 button and a scroll wheel sounds good

IndyGopher

Mar 19, 2002, 11:56 PM

I don't mind Apple having the Pro Mouse as standard, but I DO think they need to make it really clear that there are multi-button, scroll-wheel sportin' mice and trackballs out there that are fully supported out of the box by OS X. Making them an option for CTO's would be good, too.. but with Apple stores popping up like the critters in a Whack-a-Mole game, I think they need to make a point about the options, since ordering your Mac online is less and less necessary as the retail stores open up. I'd also like to take a moment to complain bitterly that the majority of Apple Stores are in cities with a smaller population than Indianapolis. I want my Apple Store, and I want it soon. (Yes, yes, New York City needs one too.. but you have a dozen Apple Authorized resellers... we have 1 CompUSA... the nearest other place is another CompUSA, in another state, 117 miles away.)

Hemingray

Mar 20, 2002, 12:39 AM

I don't think some of you guys realize how handy a two button mouse with a scroll wheel can be. :) You know about chording? It's clicking both buttons at once to create an entirely different action. In my case, I have it act as a double click. It's wonderful!

I have a Keningston Mouse-in-a-Box. It has two buttons and a scroll wheel. The scroll wheel can be pressed down to act as a third button plus the chording acts as a fourth button. It's beautiful, it's optical, and it costs $29.99. I'd like to see Apple beat that!

(No, really, I would...)

AlphaTech

Mar 20, 2002, 12:48 AM

The Macally ioptinet mouse (two buttons with a scrolling wheel button) is 100% functional under both OS 9.x and OS X. OS X doesn't need any additional drivers. It tracks across the screen more then fast enough, and has full functionality without needing to use any extra keys (ctrl+click). Don't get me wrong, for many people the Apple Pro mouse is just fine, but if you do a lot of web surfin (who here doesn't?) then the wheel is a huge help.

I have used the logitech mice before as well (optical mostly) but have found some driver/extension issues with OS 9.x. Macally mice don't seem to have the same issues. It all depends on what you like, and what is easier for you to get. Either way, get a eunuch mouse, so that you don't have as much gunk to clean. :D

Macmaniac

Mar 20, 2002, 07:33 AM

It would destroy the intelli mouse market!

imspace2

Mar 20, 2002, 09:29 AM

why is it that difficult to understand? I'm sure you all know about the option key but anyway there have been two button mouse on the market for many years. The only feature I would like to see in an Apple OEM mouse is a scroll-wheel and possibly a fingerprint scanner built in such as the MAGIC SECURE 3500@http://www.sos-depot.com/Products/170016.asp Sony also makes a unique mouse with built-in memorystick reader@http://www.sonystyle.com/di/prd.jsp?model=MSAC-US5

sturm375

Mar 20, 2002, 09:53 AM

This is to those of you who insist that we can all get along just fine using the option key. This idea sucks! Plain and simple, I am lazy, and I am sure I am not the only one out there like that. When I serf the web, I like to relax, and recline. If I have to constantly unrecline just to reach the darn option key on my keyboard, I get anoyed. I know it is very petty, but there is a point. With a GUI 99% of the time we shouldn't need a keyboard, especially on the web.

whitegold

Mar 20, 2002, 10:47 AM

I know a PC guy (I am one myself actually) who had to do macromedia training for a design company. He got there and explained "right click, select open" (or whatever) and they kind of sheepishly said "We use macs. We don't have a right button." He just looked around the room blankly and said "Why don't you just get one big padded button so you can bash it with your head?"

It amused me.

In any case, I'm irrelevant, because I use a PC. I personally am of the opinion that the modern standard is and should be 2 button mouse with a scroll wheel.

Games are vastly improve by this more intuitive system. The scrollwheel is used extensively in games, and right click is invaluable. How people play UT on a standard mac mouse is beyond me.

I recently had to try and use photoshop on a Mac, and found it amazingly clunky, not being able to rightclick on layers, right click on effects, etc.

Right clicking is great, but I couldn't live without a scroll wheel. Most serious mac users I know have bought a logitech mouse. But they shouldn't have to. The look and style of the computer is compromised, and that's one thing that Apple really need to avoid.

eyelikeart

Mar 20, 2002, 10:59 AM

:o more I'm like willing to give the benefit of the doubt...

to me it just makes me feel like I'm using a PeeCee when I have a 2 button mouse in hand...right-clicking....ugh....I'm sorry...but that's what it feels like to me...

the 1 button mouse (in my weird anal retentive way I suppose) reminds me that I'm using a Macintosh...it's the familiar feeling of the 1 button that I like....but I can see where it could be very handy for some to have 2 buttons...maybe I'm just used to using the keyboard in conjunction with the mouse?

AlphaTech

Mar 20, 2002, 11:08 AM

With the Mac, you can have ALL the functionality of a two button mouse simply by using the CONTROL key (the one allll the way to the left of the spacebar). Otherwise, just go out and get a two button (with the scrolling wheel/button) mouse.

That has been a feature with the Mac OS for some time now, so it is not something new.

As for the person that found PhotoShop 'clunky' on the Mac... All it would take is a few moments to look around, and MAYBE open up one of the many windows that gives you complete control of the application. I select between layers much faster using the layer window then you could ever do with a second button on your mouse.

Mac's rule, peecee's drool :D

germanknee

Mar 20, 2002, 05:25 PM

AlphaTech:

you beat me to correcting some people.
it is the CONTROL key - not the OPTION or APPLE key. Although those do have some nice functions. OPTION + mouse click outside of an application hides the active app. and the APPLE key's uses go without saying.

and about photoshop, i barely use the right click either. the panels are perfect, esp. the global.

anyway, i still would like to see a 2 button/scroll wheel mouse from apple as an option.

cb911

Mar 21, 2002, 04:13 AM

cant you use something like the Microsoft intellimouse on a Apple? that's what i was thinking of doing, but if apple brought out a mouse with a scroll wheel i would definitely buy it! anyway, macmaniac is right. if Apple decided to make a 2-button mouse with a scroll wheel it would definitely put a dent in intelli mouse sales!

AlphaTech

Mar 21, 2002, 09:55 AM

Why pay m$ for a mouse when both Logitec and MacAlly make wonderful optical mice (two+ buttons)??? It's bad enough that I have to use m$ software at work, and had to install windblows onto the game pc. I refuse to buy any hardware from them, or any software that I don't absolutely HAVE to.

I have used both the Logitec and MacAlly mice, and have had no issues with their drivers (just make sure that they are the most recent for your OS). MacAlly's drivers are much smoother then the others (one control panel for OS 9, and nothing for OS X).

How much more is the m$ mouse???

blindman858

Mar 21, 2002, 10:45 AM

A two button mouse is a pretty good idea sure. But if apple users can get the job done with one button, why waste time and money switching to two? I really dont want to conform to the pc ways. Two button mice, whats next a pentium mac?

TyleRomeo

Mar 23, 2002, 03:04 AM

ok i mite be wrong here but can't you buy a 2 button USB mouse for the macs now anyway. I've seen them advertised online. 2 button with scroll, not bad at all.

3G4N

Mar 24, 2002, 03:41 AM

I have a old Kensington 4-button Thinking Mouse, hooked
up via an iMate ADB/USB adaptor. Now that all the drivers are
up to date, it works like a charm! I love the shape and feel,
symmetric for either hand.
http://www.computerplug.com/accessories/mouse-kthink-2.jpg

Although all of the OS9 functionality hasn't made it to OSX yet, as
far as programablity, it has all the basic left, right, and middle
clicks, all with combining keystrokes (eg. option + right-click)
Having a middle button helps in UNIX apps, specially Maya.

I used to use SGIs, and I loved the UNIX middle-button, and
using the middle-button trick to copy and paste selections.
Under OS9, I programmed my 3rd and 4th buttons to copy and
paste, respectively.

I could also use chord combos to: scroll; bring up a pop-up
menu of running applications; use utilites such as copypaste,
or quickkeys; run applescripts; create your own pop-up menus
including any or all of the above mentioned items; etc...
Chording has such potential, if we'd ever just leave this
qwerty keyboard.

AlphaTech

Mar 24, 2002, 10:50 AM

Originally posted by TyleRomeo
ok i mite be wrong here but can't you buy a 2 button USB mouse for the macs now anyway. I've seen them advertised online. 2 button with scroll, not bad at all.

Yes you can. Both MacAlly and Logitech make good mice for the Mac, they even have the USB, optical ones. If you have a Mac with USB, get the USB mouse since I have seen the USB/adb adapters go bad (have three of them at work that have gone in the past year alone). The Macally mouse has full functionality within OSX without any drivers. You need to install one control panel under OS 9.x for it, that's it. I use one of those all day at work, as well as at home, and have been for over a year now. Love the fact that there are no balls to clean :D

AndreHAL

Mar 24, 2002, 01:23 PM

I just realized something; if you hold down the right mousebutton then click the left, you go one page back in the opera browsers. left/right offcourse, gets you forward. WOW!!!:D :D :D. Thats...WOW:D :D

AlphaTech

Mar 24, 2002, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by AndreHAL
I just realized something; if you hold down the right mousebutton then click the left, you go one page back in the opera browsers. left/right offcourse, gets you forward. WOW!!!:D :D :D. Thats...WOW:D :D

Ahhhh, the sounds of the easily amused and impressed...

I can do that all day long in IE with my MacAlly optical mouse (three button, scrolling wheel). Right click, hold or release, and then select whatever you want to do. The wheel scolls both in windows on the drive as well as within browser windows.

AndreHAL

Mar 24, 2002, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by AlphaTech

Ahhhh, the sounds of the easily amused and impressed...

I can do that all day long in IE with my MacAlly optical mouse (three button, scrolling wheel). Right click, hold or release, and then select whatever you want to do. The wheel scolls both in windows on the drive as well as within browser windows.

I just thought it was nice 'cause it didn't work that way in IE (pc). Just so u got me right here, i didn't select anything, the browser jumps to the next page when you hold down both right and left toghether(goes to the previous page when you hit the left first and to the next when the right goes down first), very efficient i think.

AndreHAL

Mar 24, 2002, 04:21 PM

i'm pretty shure IE doesn't have mouse gestures, you can read about it here (http://www.opera.com/windows/mouse.html) it's really cool what you can do, this is really thinking different!

Catfish_Man

Mar 24, 2002, 04:44 PM

...are definitely better. I'm using a two button Logitech wheelmouse right now :)

whitegold

Mar 25, 2002, 06:09 AM

If gestures interest you there is a program available called Sensiva lets you use gestures in all applications.

I loved it when I had it, though it appeared to have some stability issues in the older version I had. I'll try the new version soon.

I'm pretty sure there's a mac version.

Sensiva's gesture recognicion to me is the sort of thing that is the next step in PC interface. Speech, for example, is still a little slow and imprecise. And there's only so many buttons you can put on a mouse!

In any case, being able to right drag diagonally to minimize programs, or set up instant access to programs and files with just a flick of the wrist is exceptional.

I'm waiting for news that M$ has bought Sensiva Pty Ltd and disassembled it : )

Give it a look. There's a trial version at sensiva.com

ewinemiller

Mar 25, 2002, 06:32 AM

When I buy a new mac, I always take the mouse, throw it away, and plug in a MS mouse. Scroll wheel, extra buttons, it makes mousing on the Mac go from a 1985 experience back to normal. If they add a two button wheel mouse, I can save a few bucks.

oldMac

Mar 25, 2002, 11:05 AM

Okay...
So the one-button mouse is very mac-like in its thinking. However, using control + click to "simulate" a right-click is totally un-mac-like.

Remember when Macs didn't even ship with keyboards? I'm glad those days are over, too. However, the point was well made: "You drive this whole thing with just a one-button mouse." The PC was the opposite, "You drive this whole thing with the keyboard".

Heck, we've already got the "option" key and the "command" key used as modifiers. Can anyone say "F-key template"?

My point is that they right-click is a mouse feature, not a keyboard feature. I don't mind it hiding under the control key, but that's really non-intuitive.

Apple should add two-button mice in the BTO option for a nominal fee. The default should be one-button. The control-click should remain, but not be advertised as a *solution* for right-clicking.

Jookbox

Mar 25, 2002, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by davincijones
I recently purchased a G4 tower to replace my family's old PC. I'v eused macs before but I'm th eonly one in my family. They loved it when we first booted it up but once they started using it they all complained about the mouse. It moved to slowly (even the tracking speed was maxed) and they hated the fact that it didn't have a wheel like our old pc.

what's the deal with mouse the tracking speed on macs? maxed it still is way too slow. luckily i use a wacom tablet.

lasvegasgamer

Mar 25, 2002, 01:22 PM

Whenever helping Friends ((PeeCee or other)) to get a Mac, I always tell them to buy a Logitech Optical Wheel Mouse...Its 2 button, scroll wheel and Optical, or something that fits their hand that is more comfortable because of how useful the second mouse button/scroll wheel is. They usually aren't too happy about having to chug up another $25 bucks. ((I always pay them $5 to do it if they will give me their pro mouse, I have 4)) I personally use the Wireless Mouseman Wheel ((Same thing as Optical Wheel Mouse except its more ergnomically fit to your hand, one more side button, and obviously its wireless))

I know why Apple doesn't move to a 2 button mouse two very "important" reasons...

1)They want to save face, during the history of the Mac OS they have always fought off multi button mice, From PARC's 3 button mouse two the Windows 3.1 and Later 2 button mice, Apple probably now realizes how important the second ((but not 3rd)) mouse button is, but they have to save face...I think they should drop this cherade

2)Apple thinks that the mouse should be as simple as possible...but how simple is having to press control click when there is a one((right))click soultion available...

I love my 2 button mice, but I would love a Apple 2 button mouse more

Durandal7

Mar 25, 2002, 01:25 PM

I sprung for a two-button mouse a while back. I have to say it works out pretty well with the MacOS. Of course we don't need a two-button mouse with the MacOS so I guess Apple can do whatever it feels like.

Durandal7

Mar 25, 2002, 02:06 PM

< I don't know where this post came from and I can't delete it. If one of the Macrumors Gods sees this then feel free to delete it.>

rainman::|:|

Mar 25, 2002, 04:51 PM

Hmm... to change a signature feature for 20 years... i realize we have to change with the times, but it doesn't seem right. i'm going to say right now, Apple had better not abandon the one button mouse... if they go to two or three or ten with 3 scroll wheels; fine and good, but I want my pretty, sleek, elegant Pro Mouse...

Actually I wouldn't mind seeing what Apple could do with the concept... I like the idea of a rocking Pro Mouse, if you push down on the left side it's normal, rock it to the right, it's a control-click... It just seems like two and three button mice are so visually cluttered, as well as confusing to the novice... If i had a nickel for every PC user I've trained that couldn't understand the difference in 3 buttons and a scroll wheel, I'd have a lot of nickels...

:)
pnw

rainman::|:|

Mar 25, 2002, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by Jookbox

what's the deal with mouse the tracking speed on macs? maxed it still is way too slow. luckily i use a wacom tablet.

I've heard this from a lot of people... Try a utility called MOX Optimize, it does tons of stuff (updates pre-bindings, deletes multiple language support, etc) including overhauling the mouse tracking... Unfortunately I tried to use it to edit my system startup, and wound up having to reinstall. twice. Now I can't use it without crashes. Use at your own risk, but I think if one doesn't try stupid things with it, it should work well... :D

pnw

iH8Quark

Mar 25, 2002, 05:59 PM

A two button mouse _would_ be nice.

The whole ctrl+CLICK thing is pretty awkward.

SPG

Apr 1, 2002, 08:42 PM

The more buttons the better. I would like the keyboard to have more buttons too. Oh! how I miss the forward delete of olden times.
Apple is the only company in the world that after being requested to add buttons for years replies by making a no button mouse!
I want a mouse with at least six buttons and a dual action scroll wheel!!!!