PC Laptop buying recommendations? (No flames. Period.)

[ravenvii]

I am looking for a cheap PC laptop to use as a Windows machine. I need Windows for law school, for various websites that don't work quite right in Safari and Firefox, and for Examsoft.

I don't plan to use this as my main machine (the PowerBook will keep that function).

I'd like it to be fairly light (so no desktop replacements, please). I'd like it to have Windows Vista Home Premium. No Home Basic, please.

WiFi built-in is a must as well. I don't care about Bluetooth.

I don't really care much about the specs. A 40 GB+ drive will be good enough. A CD burner is a must, though. DVD, both ROM and RW, not so much.

I don't plan to play much on it, so integrated graphics is fine, as long as it supports all the eye candy in Vista.

RAM doesn't matter either, since it's so easily upgradeable later.

I'm looking to spend $700 or less. I'm in college, so if you can point me to some educational discounts, that'd be nice.

Thanks in advance.

[Chaszmyr]

Just a reminder that things like VMWare Fusion and Parallels work exceedingly well for this type of thing. CodeWeavers Crossover would probably work too. So I'd say sell the PowerBook and get a MacBook.

[kalisphoenix]

I agree. Is there any reason a MacBook wouldn't work?

[psycoswimmer]

I have to second the opinion of selling the PowerBook and getting the middle-spec MacBook, and then installing Vista Home Premium on it. This sounds like the best option you could have.

After about 10 minutes of customizing a Dell Inspiron and going through that unnecessarily long customization process, I got this:

PROCESSOR: Intel® Pentium® dual-core T2080(1MB Cache/1.73GHz/533MHz FSB)
OPERATING SYSTEM: Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium
LCD PANEL: 14.1 inch Wide Screen XGA TFT Display with TrueLife™(glossy)
MEMORY: 1GB DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 Dimm
HARD DRIVE: 80GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)
OPTICAL DRIVE 24X CD Burner/DVD Combo Drive
VIDEO CARD: Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950
SOUND OPTIONS: Integrated Audio

It comes out to about $728. I also didn't include any anti-virus or extra warranty. It's as basic as I could.

[PseudoWoobie]

Why not post PC laptop questions on a forum for PC users?

[fivetoadsloth]

How about this?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=2905186&sku=A180-1392&CMP=EMC-TIGEREMAIL&SRCCODE=WEM1376V

[jaduffy108]

First thing I would do is.... look into the hardware specs required to run Vista Home Premium with all its "eye candy". I *suspect* it will require more than a $700 laptop pc.

Like Chaszmyr...a Macbook sounds like a VERY good idea (selling the Powerbook), but I'm not sure if it's integrated graphics can "play nice" with Vista either. The X3100 (santa rosa) should be enough for Vista, but Macbooks do not have that chipset yet. Maybe worth the wait....unless you're in need immediately. Otherwise, HP, Lenovo, Dell should have their Santa Rosa laptops out already...but I kind of doubt they are $700 or less...

Seems to me...with the cash from selling the Powerbook plus the $700 you're willing to invest...you would be VERY close to getting a 15" MBP with Santa rosa...which should be out quite soon...a few days to a few weeks. That would be a huge upgrade over your current Powerbook. Bootcamp or Parallels is your friend. :)

good luck...

[ravenvii]

On why I don't post on a PC forum, firstly I don't want to sign up just to ask about this, and secondly I value the opinions of people here.

As for the MacBook, I used to own one, and I don't really like them, to be honest. Their build quality sucks frankly, and I hate the glossy screen (worst viewing angles I've seen in a long time). I plan to save up and get a MacBook Pro sometime next year, but for now a PC laptop will do.

Unless they begin to sell MacBook Pros at $1,500 (educational price), then I can sell this PowerBook, add what I would've paid for the PC, and bought a MBP. But alas, they are way out of my price range at the moment.

[jaduffy108]

I have to second the opinion of selling the PowerBook and getting the middle-spec MacBook, and then installing Vista Home Premium on it. This sounds like the best option you could have.

After about 10 minutes of customizing a Dell Inspiron and going through that unnecessarily long customization process, I got this:

PROCESSOR: Intel® Pentium® dual-core T2080(1MB Cache/1.73GHz/533MHz FSB)
OPERATING SYSTEM: Genuine Windows Vista™ Home Premium
LCD PANEL: 14.1 inch Wide Screen XGA TFT Display with TrueLife™(glossy)
MEMORY: 1GB DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz, 2 Dimm
HARD DRIVE: 80GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)
OPTICAL DRIVE 24X CD Burner/DVD Combo Drive
VIDEO CARD: Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950
SOUND OPTIONS: Integrated Audio

It comes out to about $728. I also didn't include any anti-virus or extra warranty. It's as basic as I could.


### Can the Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950 run Vista Home premium with all the "eye candy"? If so, sounds like a solid choice for the OP.

[kalisphoenix]

Have you considered becoming a student developer and using the discount to help defray the cost? Or a refurb? :)

(I'm not trying to be a pain -- I'm just suggesting what I'd try to do)

Edit: The cost of an MBP, not an MB.

[PCMacUser]

Um, well for starters, this chap has stated he only has $700 to spend. The cheapest Macbook is $1099. He hasn't said he wants to sell his Powerbook either. So $700 it is. Also, I couldn't recommend using virtualisation software to run Vista Premium. I've done a lot of testing of it under VMWare and while it DOES work, it's not particularly speedy.

My recommendation would be the Dell E1505. It's currently $699.

1.73GHz Core Duo Pentium (read Celeron)
1Gb RAM
ATI X1400 256Mb Graphics
80Gb HDD
CDRW/DVDROM combo

It comes with Vista Home, but Home Premium is a $29 upgrade.

[ravenvii]

The Dell E1505 is what I've been looking at as well. I am considering buying the Ubuntu edition, then installing Windows XP on it (since I have a copy).

But...

After looking at the Apple Store, I'm beginning to think that you guys are right. I just have to scrape up $300 more to get the bottom MacBook Pro, which is MUCH more power than I need.

Perhaps I will join the Santa Rosa waiting game after all.

[jaduffy108]

On why I don't post on a PC forum, firstly I don't want to sign up just to ask about this, and secondly I value the opinions of people here.

As for the MacBook, I used to own one, and I don't really like them, to be honest. Their build quality sucks frankly, and I hate the glossy screen (worst viewing angles I've seen in a long time). I plan to save up and get a MacBook Pro sometime next year, but for now a PC laptop will do.

Unless they begin to sell MacBook Pros at $1,500 (educational price), then I can sell this PowerBook, add what I would've paid for the PC, and bought a MBP. But alas, they are way out of my price range at the moment.

### That's cool. Just a fyi...I've seen refurbished 15" MBPs at the apple store for $1600..and with new machines arriving SOON...maybe that's something to consider. Check the site OFTEN if you're interested. Also, smalldog.com can be a good source for replaced models.

[PCMacUser]

The Dell E1505 is what I've been looking at as well. I am considering buying the Ubuntu edition, then installing Windows XP on it (since I have a copy).

But...

After looking at the Apple Store, I'm beginning to think that you guys are right. I just have to scrape up $300 more to get the bottom MacBook Pro, which is MUCH more power than I need.

Perhaps I will join the Santa Rosa waiting game after all.

If you want the best price/performance ratio purely for running Vista, you'll still be better off buying the E1505 with an upgraded CPU (rather than buying a Macbook). Mostly because of the dedicated graphics card that Dell includes. If Apple offered something like this as an optional upgrade to the Macbook I'd be very happy and would buy one myself.

[kalisphoenix]

*grumbles* And why is it that we can't delete posts on this forum?

[jaduffy108]

The Dell E1505 is what I've been looking at as well. I am considering buying the Ubuntu edition, then installing Windows XP on it (since I have a copy).

But...

After looking at the Apple Store, I'm beginning to think that you guys are right. I just have to scrape up $300 more to get the bottom MacBook Pro, which is MUCH more power than I need.

Perhaps I will join the Santa Rosa waiting game after all.


### The Dell that someone recommended seems like a great value, but if you want to go "apple"...you don't need Santa Rosa...the current MBPs will more than serve your needs, thus giving you an opportunity to get the older model for less moolah. Refurbish is the ticket. I just got one. New MBPs will be out by June 11th....possibly this Tuesday.

$1299. Right now.
Refurbished MacBook Pro, 15-inch, 1.83GHz Intel Core Duo
15.4-inch widescreen display (1440x900 resolution)
512MB (single SODIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
80GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
Built-in iSight Camera
Front Row and Apple Remote

Please do remember this is a first generation MacTel (Not Core 2 Duo aka merom)...issues galore, but it is still an example of good deals going refurbished.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=A35F9A3&nclm=CertifiedMac

[kalisphoenix]

Indeed. $700 + your old Powerbook would buy that nicely 8)

[zioxide]

DON'T BUY THE INSPIRON E1505.

I have one, it's a piece of ****. Overheats, its huge and cheaply built, and the driver support is **** so the software is very buggy. My wifi still doesn't work right even after having this thing for almost a year and updating the drivers monthly.

Why can't you use Bootcamp?

[PCMacUser]

### The Dell that someone recommended seems like a great value, but if you want to go "apple"...you don't need Santa Rosa...the current MBPs will more than serve your needs, thus giving you an opportunity to get the older model for less moolah. Refurbish is the ticket. I just got one. New MBPs will be out by June 11th....possibly this Tuesday.

$1299. Right now.
Refurbished MacBook Pro, 15-inch, 1.83GHz Intel Core Duo
15.4-inch widescreen display (1440x900 resolution)
512MB (single SODIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
80GB 5400-rpm Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory
Built-in iSight Camera
Front Row and Apple Remote

Please do remember this is a first generation MacTel...issues galore, but it is still an example of good deals going refurbished.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?mco=A35F9A3&nclm=CertifiedMac

Yep this might be his best option. Although a RAM upgrade would be essential. 512Mb won't run Vista so well!

[iW00t]

I agree. Is there any reason a MacBook wouldn't work?

It is not cheap :)

[synth3tik]

I used to really like Toshibas, but lately I have seen a lot of them over heat and shut down. So, now I have to say Dell. Now with Micheal Dell back in control their products are seeing some much needed advances. If I had to use a PC laptop it would be a new model Dell.


There, totally Flame free.:D

[skubish]

Why 2 laptops.
Just get a MB or MBP and install bootcamp or parallels.

[biturbomunkie]

are you sure teh school supports vista?

i also second the MBP + parallels option. i put xp pro on mine and it's been awesome.

[blackstone]

I am looking for a cheap PC laptop to use as a Windows machine. I need Windows for law school, for various websites that don't work quite right in Safari and Firefox, and for Examsoft.

If the only Windows-specific things you'll be doing involve Examsoft and a couple of web-browsing tasks, you may just want to buy a refurb IBM T42 or T43 from Lenovo running Windows XP Pro. This will meet your needs and won't fail unexpectedly, which is by far the most important consideration when taking exams with your computer.

If you want to go on the extremely-cheap-but-still-workable end, a refurbed T23 1ghz would be adequate for Examsoft, especially if you turn off the visual bells and whistles in XP.

I'd like it to be fairly light (so no desktop replacements, please). I'd like it to have Windows Vista Home Premium. No Home Basic, please.

Really, Windows Vista is overkill for Examsoft and web browsing. And keep in mind that most university IT departments are only just starting to figure out how to support it. Why not just get a computer with XP Pro? Is there anything you're using this computer for other than taking exams and occasionally loading stupidly-designed IE-only websites?

[ravenvii]

Really, Windows Vista is overkill for Examsoft and web browsing. And keep in mind that most university IT departments are only just starting to figure out how to support it. Why not just get a computer with XP Pro? Is there anything you're using this computer for other than taking exams and occasionally loading stupidly-designed IE-only websites?

Not really, it's just the techno-geek in me that wants to play around a bit with Vista ;)

[rmhop81]

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?cs=04&kc=65020&oc=bnpcffa&x=0&y=0

[ravenvii]

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?cs=04&kc=65020&oc=bnpcffa&x=0&y=0

Damn, that's a hell of a machine for just $550.

[rmhop81]

Damn, that's a hell of a machine for just $550.

puts apple's prices to shame.

[nbs2]

I can't suggest any model, but here are a few thoughts.

1) I graduated in '06, so maybe if your school's IT department is quicker than mine, you will be ok with Vista. But, I imagine that if you have any problems, especially during exams, having something that they are comfortable with would be good. After my first year, they cut support for Macs that were using VPC to take exams. My third year, they rolled back their support such that you had two models of Dell to choose from if you wanted any support outside of our exam software. Anything else, and you were on your own. Point being - Vista may be dangerous if you are using it for exams.

2) The PC lappy that I used in law school for my exams was a Toshiba. Now, clearly a sample size of one is not enough to make a blanket, but I'm just chipping in a thought. It sucked. It was totally replaced once and has essentially been replaced a second time with all of the parts that have been replaced on this second one. I think the chassis, display and HD are the only originals left. There was so much solder on the MB (before the ended up replacing it), I think it may have doubled in weight.

Even if you do get a Toshiba running Vista - good luck and enjoy law school. I know I didn't.:)

[blackstone]

puts apple's prices to shame.

Anyone who works in IT will readily tell you, however, that Dell's laptop line has been utter crap for the past couple of years -- they suffer from all kinds of weird component failures, from the monitor signal cable dying to the power button failing. In this case, you get what you pay for.

[emaja]

The GMA 950 runs all of Vista's eye candy just fine. I have been running Ultimate since it came out and there have been no issues whatsoever with Vista on my first gen MB.

You can always turn off the eye candy anyway as it really adds nothing to the functionality of Vista - it just looks nice (well...).

I too would not want to carry around or even own two laptops when one could do everything I needed. I bought mine as a refurb and saved a few hundred bucks. There are even places like PowerMax.com that do trade-ins and will credit your account after you make the purchase from them for the trade-in value. You will not get what you could get if you sold it privately, but it sounds pretty easy.

If you want to go with a cheap PC instead, take a look at Best Buy who has done away with mail-in rebates. I have seen laptops for $599 that have a Pentium Dual Core, 1GB RAM and 120GB HDs with a DVD-RW and Vista Premium. I took a look at their ad today and see a Gateway for $599 and an HP with a Turion 64x2, 1GB/120GB/DVD-RW/Premium and an upgraded video chipset (nVidia GO6150) for $699.

Either on meets your budget and your needs.

[rmhop81]

Anyone who works in IT will readily tell you, however, that Dell's laptop line has been utter crap for the past couple of years -- they suffer from all kinds of weird component failures, from the monitor signal cable dying to the power button failing. In this case, you get what you pay for.
before i switched over to apple i only owned dell's and i had a lot of the style of laptops. NEVER once did I have a problem with their machines. Just bc their pricing is so cheap doesn't mean the computers are cheap. Dell sells in massive bulk hence why they can sell their laptops cheaper. I get tired of hearing comments like this....when my powerbook had an overheat problem was that bc it wasn't expensive enough? No, things happen to machines even if they are apple's, dell's, hp's etc. Apple is not God when it comes to making computers......if they were they'd be in every business environment out there and they aren't. When you go into an office what brand do you most likely see 9 out of 10 times? Dell.

Just bc you're not a fan of dell machines doesn't mean other people can't be. Don't let the OP think that dell sucks just bc u don't like them.

[Dustman]

id get the cheapest dell laptop, then either upgrade the ram to atleast a gig, or keep the 512 mb and downgrade to windows xp. i'm not quite sure why everyones asking him whats wrong with a macbook when its double the price of what he wants to spend? that probly sounds rude, but its not supposed to.

[rmhop81]

id get the cheapest dell laptop, then either upgrade the ram to atleast a gig, or keep the 512 mb and downgrade to windows xp. i'm not quite sure why everyones asking him whats wrong with a macbook when its double the price of what he wants to spend? that probly sounds rude, but its not supposed to.

exactly man. the machine i posted is only $549 and it's got a ton of stuff on it. Just bc it's not an apple product people only say get a macbook it's the best choice. Gets to be annoying ya know.

[fairnymph]

I've always been a fan of Dell laptops as far as Windows machines go.

But I don't see why you can't use a mac. My friend just graduated law school and she used a PB without problems. I can ask how she accessed certain sites if you want..

[Schroedinger]

DO NOT GET VISTA -- DO NOT GET A MACBOOK

I just graduated from Michigan Law and as of last month they weren't supporting Vista and wouldn't support intel macs running xp through bootcamp (no idea why, probably cuz they are nuts.)

I used an IBM x40 for school, with an external cd burner/DVD player. As I kept all my goodies on my mac, I rarely needed the cd player except to install software. An ultraportable is a great choice b/c you will be carrying this thing around with you all the time, so sub 3 pounds is a wonderful thing. Lastly, I think IBM made the best laptops, even better than apple's (save for the whole windows thing). I can't speak for Lenovo's products as everyone I know who got a Thinkpad got them back when IBM was still making them.

I think an ultraportable Dell will probably serve you just fine as long as make sure to demand little of it. I've had to play computer jesus way too often with Dells that are being used for everything. Personally I don't trust Dell build quality, but I will leave such judgments to you.

And regarding people making it through school with macs, I have a good friend i convinced to get a powerbook b/c it would be her only computer, but every exam period I had to lend her my Thinkpad.

Best of luck

[blackstone]

before i switched over to apple i only owned dell's and i had a lot of the style of laptops. NEVER once did I have a problem with their machines. Just bc their pricing is so cheap doesn't mean the computers are cheap. Dell sells in massive bulk hence why they can sell their laptops cheaper. I get tired of hearing comments like this....when my powerbook had an overheat problem was that bc it wasn't expensive enough? No, things happen to machines even if they are apple's, dell's, hp's etc. Apple is not God when it comes to making computers......if they were they'd be in every business environment out there and they aren't. When you go into an office what brand do you most likely see 9 out of 10 times? Dell.

Just bc you're not a fan of dell machines doesn't mean other people can't be. Don't let the OP think that dell sucks just bc u don't like them.

Not to hijack the thread, but my experience working with hundreds of computers at my school's support desk trumps your individual purchases, which can't number more than ten or so. And note that my recommendation for a rock-solid reliable Windows laptop was IBM, not Apple. Don't put words in my mouth.

Dell is used in most offices because the desktops are both cheap and pretty reliable, and the laptops come as part of the deal, so it makes sense to standardize on Dell across the board. Also, by the time most of the laptops have failed, the office is usually ready to begin a new upgrade cycle anyway.

As for the IBM v. Lenovo issue that a previous poster raised -- the Thinkpad designs are largely unchanged from the IBM days, so design-wise, they're very solid. I don't know much about Lenovo's quality control, though.

[BigPrince]

Personally I would find a new career that does not require you to use IE.

[fairnymph]

Personally I would find a new career that does not require you to use IE.
LOL!

[Dynamyk]

I'd wait till the new MBP's come out and grab a refurb after they drop in price.

[odinsride]

Dell Latitude (business class I think) are solid machines and would probably suit your needs. I've been using a Latitude D600 for work for 3 years and it still runs like a champ (I'm a consultant, so it's been moved around pretty much daily)

[zioxide]

Dell Latitude (business class I think) are solid machines and would probably suit your needs. I've been using a Latitude D600 for work for 3 years and it still runs like a champ (I'm a consultant, so it's been moved around pretty much daily)

The new Latitudes are pieces of ****. It's the "recommended" computer for students at my school, but about 20 of the 40 people on my floor last year who owned one had problems with it and had to send it in to IT.

[Evergreen]

I'm surprised no one has suggested spoofing the User Agent to show as IE in your browser of choice. Firefox has an extension called "User Agent Switcher" that makes it easy to do. Some websites will work fine if they think you are IE, others won't render properly. It's worth testing.

[odinsride]

The new Latitudes are pieces of ****. It's the "recommended" computer for students at my school, but about 20 of the 40 people on my floor last year who owned one had problems with it and had to send it in to IT.

That's unfortunate. Most of our consulting group here have Latitude D600's, nobody has really had any serious issues at all with them. Our more recent hires have been given HP's though and they're constantly having them sent to IT for repairs or parts replacements.

[viper1701]

That's unfortunate. Most of our consulting group here have Latitude D600's, nobody has really had any serious issues at all with them. Our more recent hires have been given HP's though and they're constantly having them sent to IT for repairs or parts replacements.

My entire school (approx 300 students) uses Dell Latitudes, and they are AWFUL. My class uses D600s. We discovered the batteries had been designed to fail a few months after the warranty expired (they would just stop working all of a sudden - battery life would be 3 hours one day, and nothing the next). Motherboards break constantly - buttons stop working, computers start randomly turning off, HD connections go bad, etc. The screen hinges are very fragile, as is the latch. The hard drives run so hot that they make it hard to use the laptop on your lap.

Worst of all is the buggy dell firmware. When we first got the computers, they couldn't be hibernated while the screen was set to its native resolution or the computer would never wake up. Even now, sleeping the computer can often result in problems when the computers wake. Wireless cards tend to be finicky as well, with poor software support.

Dells are great if you don't want to pay much and have free on-site service with free loaner laptops. Otherwise, I highly recommend going with IBMs. They are more solidly built and the IBM software is far better integrated. I have worked with both the D620s and the new Lenovos, and the Lenovos are far better. The D620 chassis feel like they are constructed from wet spaghetti.

[odinsride]

My entire school (approx 300 students) uses Dell Latitudes, and they are AWFUL. My class uses D600s. We discovered the batteries had been designed to fail a few months after the warranty expired (they would just stop working all of a sudden - battery life would be 3 hours one day, and nothing the next). Motherboards break constantly - buttons stop working, computers start randomly turning off, HD connections go bad, etc. The screen hinges are very fragile, as is the latch. The hard drives run so hot that they make it hard to use the laptop on your lap.

Worst of all is the buggy dell firmware. When we first got the computers, they couldn't be hibernated while the screen was set to its native resolution or the computer would never wake up. Even now, sleeping the computer can often result in problems when the computers wake. Wireless cards tend to be finicky as well, with poor software support.

Dells are great if you don't want to pay much and have free on-site service with free loaner laptops. Otherwise, I highly recommend going with IBMs. They are more solidly built and the IBM software is far better integrated. I have worked with both the D620s and the new Lenovos, and the Lenovos are far better. The D620 chassis feel like they are constructed from wet spaghetti.


That's odd. We haven't experienced any of the problems you listed.

[gkarris]

HP/Compaq, stay away from Dell...

[Cybergypsy]

I had a HP which was a great PC, but seem to like my Sony much better....

[gkarris]

I had a HP which was a great PC, but seem to like my Sony much better....

The Sony's are a little pricier. I recommend them when people want something just short of the price of an Apple.

Everyone I know that has a Sony desktop or notebook hasn't had any problems whatsoever...

[clevin]

I am looking for a cheap PC laptop to use as a Windows machine. I need Windows for law school, for various websites that don't work quite right in Safari and Firefox, and for Examsoft.

I'm looking to spend $700 or less. I'm in college, so if you can point me to some educational discounts, that'd be nice.

HP
Dell
Acer
all have cheap stuff, I got my Acer aspire 3680 for $399, 1.7G celeron/100G/512Mb/GMA950/14.4 widescreen/802.11g/DVD/CDR.

[zioxide]

Lenovo Thinkpads are by far the best laptops if you have to buy a windows computer.

[epiphany]

Believe it or not, I regularly see PC laptops at Staples (the store, not the website) for less than $600 running Vista Home Premium.

I'd also recommend http://dealnews.com They post deals from across the net every day, including Dell deals.

[blackstone]

My entire school (approx 300 students) uses Dell Latitudes, and they are AWFUL. My class uses D600s. We discovered the batteries had been designed to fail a few months after the warranty expired (they would just stop working all of a sudden - battery life would be 3 hours one day, and nothing the next). Motherboards break constantly - buttons stop working, computers start randomly turning off, HD connections go bad, etc. The screen hinges are very fragile, as is the latch. The hard drives run so hot that they make it hard to use the laptop on your lap.

Worst of all is the buggy dell firmware. When we first got the computers, they couldn't be hibernated while the screen was set to its native resolution or the computer would never wake up. Even now, sleeping the computer can often result in problems when the computers wake. Wireless cards tend to be finicky as well, with poor software support.

Dells are great if you don't want to pay much and have free on-site service with free loaner laptops. Otherwise, I highly recommend going with IBMs. They are more solidly built and the IBM software is far better integrated. I have worked with both the D620s and the new Lenovos, and the Lenovos are far better. The D620 chassis feel like they are constructed from wet spaghetti.

Some of these problems sound familiar to me (although not the HDs or processors running unusually hot -- my sense is that they are within normal parameters for modern laptops). The student Latitudes at my school are constantly getting sent in for replacement motherboards, the power buttons fail with alarming frequency, the screen connections die, the latches break, and they don't deal with hibernation well. The wireless cards themselves are the same Intel hardware that every Centrino laptop has built in, but Dell's software for storing wireless settings is confusing for users and doesn't play very nice with the built-in XP software that serves the same purpose. (To be fair, though, Toshiba's software is even worse.)

I wonder if the reason why odinsride hasn't experienced similar problems is that students tend to abuse their computers more (e.g. carrying them around uncushioned in backpacks, accidentally dropping them on floors, etc.), which exposes more of the weaknesses of Dell's designs and choices of components?

[cbinns]

just dont get a dell or you will regret it. They may seem cheap, but after dealing with customer support and strange errors, you will find the cost of ownership rise significantly.
I personally have been building and fixing comps for 25 years now.. i can imagine how those without my computer knowledge deal with the abysmal support you find at dell. If i could go back in time i would have rathered bought a fisher price laptop than my inspiron.
Dude dont be a dope, dont get a dell.

[odinsride]

I wonder if the reason why odinsride hasn't experienced similar problems is that students tend to abuse their computers more (e.g. carrying them around uncushioned in backpacks, accidentally dropping them on floors, etc.), which exposes more of the weaknesses of Dell's designs and choices of components?

I'm a consultant who travels daily, so my D600 gets quite a bit of action...even still, the thing still works like a charm, I only just noticed a small crack at the bottom of the case - but that's bound to happen with any laptop made of plastic casing if you move it around daily.