Mardi Gras Perpetuates Religious Bigotry

[Jasonbot]

I have a debate coming up on Friday and I am debating for the topic (see title). I just need some ideas as to how Mardi Gras (the big carnival) can cause a cycle of bigotry towords certain religious groups. What I can't seem to think is how does a holiday cause religious prejudices against others?

I have a basic arguemnet whereby devout christians feel angry that their holiday has been abused by others for lewd, drunk street parties. But thats wher the thinking stops...

[Swarmlord]

<snip>

I have a basic arguemnet whereby devout christians feel angry that their holiday has been abused by others for lewd, drunk street parties. But thats wher the thinking stops...

We do? It's the last day prior to Ash Wednesday. I never gave any thought to what people do prior to Ash Wednesday. Now if they had some festival mocking Ash Wednesday, then I might have a problem with it.

[leekohler]

Mardi Gras encourages religious bigotry? I'm confused. Can you be a bit more clear?

[obeygiant]

What I can't seem to think is how does a holiday cause religious prejudices against others?

One of my good friends is jewish and he told me he'd get pissed about the saying "Jesus is the reason for the season" around xmas and hanukkah time. I wouldnt go as far as calling him prejudiced against christianity or anything. Someone else might deface nativity scenes or tear down xmas lights. However Mardi Gras or Carnival is hardly a religious holiday, its just a big party before the beginning of lent. Ash Wednesday is the "holiday", right?

[Chundles]

Mardi Gras here in Sydney is in February and is one of the biggest gay pride marches on the planet - one of Sydney's biggest parties of the year too just behind New Years Eve in terms of number of people. Now I'm not gay but it's an awesome night out.

[leekohler]

My god! Are we all agreeing? Dammit! I hate that! :D obeygiant and Swarmlord- you guys are my arch nemeses. I hate it when we agree. :)

[aquajet]

My god? Are we all agreeing? Dammit! I hate that! :D obeygiant and Swarmlord- you guys are my arch nemeses. I hate it when we agree. :)

Shouldn't that be an exclamation? I'm not so sure I agree with your decision to use a question mark.

[leekohler]

Shouldn't that be an exclamation? I'm not so sure I agree with your decision to use a question mark.

Thanks- fixed. :o Bitch. :)

[ham_man]

Bigotry? Maybe stomach and head aches from all those damn shots/pancakes/crazy drunken orgies. So long as it's over by midnight...;)

[yg17]

Well lets see....fundamentalist religious groups oppose hot chicks with big hooters flashing everyone from the balcony and Girls Gone Wild film crews recording said hooters for everyone in the world to see. In turn, those of us who like said hooters get angry at the fundamentalist groups and begin to hate them. They, in turn, hate us, and in turn, we hate them more. There ya go :D

[solvs]

My god! Are we all agreeing? Dammit! I hate that! :D obeygiant and Swarmlord- you guys are my arch nemeses. I hate it when we agree. :)
Hey, it happens. Like with the War On Drugs. Or Heroes. Or Lost. Well, sometimes with Lost.

As to the point of this thread, I believe I speak for everyone when I say, huh?

[takao]

while the historic background is clearly tied to the lent (and thus partying hard before it comes along) i don't see how mardi gras,carnival or however you call it is somehow an offense to religious persons

[Queso]

Mardi Gras here in Sydney is in February and is one of the biggest gay pride marches on the planet - one of Sydney's biggest parties of the year too just behind New Years Eve in terms of number of people. Now I'm not gay but it's an awesome night out.
Cut my legs to ribbons on my costume when we were in it :o

Anyway......

I think we're all missing the point of the OP's request. He's been tasked with coming up with an argument, one which is going to be incredibly difficult to argue in the first place. Try and play devil's advocate with our own views and come up with points he can make.

[Jasonbot]

I think we're all missing the point of the OP's request. He's been tasked with coming up with an argument, one which is going to be incredibly difficult to argue in the first place. Try and play devil's advocate with our own views and come up with points he can make.

Yeah, thats right. I gotta go for the topic which will be a very hard thing to do, thanks for all the help so far...

[xsedrinam]

You got off the tee a little wobbly. If you could tweak the title so it doesn't sound like Elmer Fudd asking the question, it might draw more bees than gnats. ;)

[Jasonbot]

You got off the tee a little wobbly. If you could tweak the title so it doesn't sound like Elmer Fudd asking the question, it might draw more bees than gnats. ;)

Well thats the (mass)debate topic, can't change that. So if anyone has any other views as to why Mardi Gras causes people of various religions to become hateful of one another your assistnace would be appreciated:D

[gkarris]

Isn't "Mardi Gras" French for "Fat Tuesday"? Which is the festival/carnival thrown before Ash Wednesday, start of Lent and fasting?

I don't know why Mardi Gras would cause religious bigotry, though...

Maybe, imo, the stuff that goes on is seen by conservatives as debauchery, and other, very conservative faiths around the world, may look at it as being hypocritical?

[stoid]

Religious bigots are simple radicals that permanently have their panties in a bunch. They'll display bigotry about anything and everything that exsists that their flavor of the church didn't pervert into the teachings of Jesus. Since Jesus didn't institute Mardi Gras, and it exsists, it will incur the wrath of religious bigits. QED?

[xsedrinam]

Well thats the (mass)debate topic, can't change that. So if anyone has any other views as to why Mardi Gras causes people of various religions to become hateful of one another your assistnace would be appreciated:D
Ya, just messin'. Really, though I don't see the correlation of "cause" and "effect". The haters, religious or otherwise, were fanning their odious flames with something or someone else, pre and post Carnaval. Maybe exacerbates religious bigotry would be closer?

[Jasonbot]

I don't know why Mardi Gras would cause religious bigotry, though...


And I don't know either but I will look might dumb going up on friday night stating that I have no idea how Mardi Gras can cause religious bigotry, thanks, bye...

The purpose of a debate is not who wins teh arguemnet but who argues better And to do so I need some prep to help me along and I should also get at least some ideas as to how this impossible statement can be truthed.

[TheAnswer]

Ok...here's a couple of ideas...

1) Pagans and holders of older ritual traditions could cite this as another co-opting of a more ancient tradition into the Catholic tradition. Mardi Gras itself is not alone in this...as many pagans belief Catholic rituals were placed throughout the calendar year in order to co-opt their traditions.

2) The Carnival/Lent cycle of binge/purge could be viewed negatively by those with traditions that forego the extremes of practice (the middle way of Buddhism comes to mind). In addition, more ascetic traditions might view Carnival as an unnecessary part of the cycle, since those traditions don't have such practices. For traditions that are more minimalist, the flashiness of a Mardi Gras celebration might be an issue.On the other hand, you could find faiths or belief systems that only have carnival type rituals and do not have lent/fasting traditions.

Now where any this perpetuates religious bigotry is the harder part. Some food for thought...

Explore the carnival/lent tradition during colonial times. The Catholic church was a large supporter of colonization efforts and of converting the indigenous peoples...so you could argue that the continuing practice of Carnival in the post-colonial world serves as a painful reminder of the colonization and also if and how the tradition has evolved through the colonized world...how were local traditions folded into Carnival during colonization and/or how since the end of the colonial era have Carnival celebrations evolved and become more indigenous (or less "Catholic" or more secular/less religious).

You'd also be wise to look into any racial or nationalistic traits you can find in various Carnival celebrations and see if these traits are believed by them to be based in their religious convictions.

[emw]

Well lets see....fundamentalist religious groups oppose hot chicks with big hooters flashing everyone from the balcony and Girls Gone Wild film crews recording said hooters for everyone in the world to see. In turn, those of us who like said hooters get angry at the fundamentalist groups and begin to hate them. They, in turn, hate us, and in turn, we hate them more. There ya go :DWhile this was likely intended to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek, the basic premise may be worth exploring.

That is, it seems that the focus is on those that are religious being opposed to Mardi Gras because of the apparent disregard it shows for various religious tenets. For example, the thought that partying wildly on the Tuesday before Ash Wednesday somehow devalues and disrespects the religious aspect of Lent.

You may also go from the angle that celebrations such as Mardi Gras and Carnaval, which focus on things that are quite non-religious - drinking, sex, hooters, etc. - encourage society to further disregard religion and religious organizations. In effect, then, the bigotry is that of the revelers who feel that those who oppose such celebrations are shortsighted and old-fashioned. And the more the religious groups complain, the more the revelers will feel that they are in the right and as such will likely foster even stronger resentment and dislike for said religious groups.

So in essence, Mardi Gras perpetuates religious bigotry by providing a very visible - and recurring - reminder of the divide that exists in society between those that may be considered religious fundamentalists and those who are simply interested in using the religious event as an excuse to party.