IBM's PowerPC 750GX

[MacRumors]

IBM's June 2003 Processor News article (http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/products/powerpc/newsletter/jun2003/newproductfocus.html) discusses the PowerPC 750GX in detail.

The PowerPC 750GX processor is sampling in July 2003 with production targetted in December 2003.

Manufactured in IBM’s advanced 0.13-micron copper process with Silicon-on-Insulator technology, the 750GX will be offered at frequencies up to 1.1 GHz. The 750GX expands the capabilities of the IBM PowerPC 7xx processor family to support more performance-demanding and power-sensitive applications. The new processor is ideally suited for a variety of systems, including networking, communications, storage, imaging, computing and consumer applications.

The 750GX will be offered at up to 1.1GHz and has 1MB of L2 Cache (Twice the 750FX) as well as various architectural improvements -- and is pin compatible with the 750FX.

The iBook currently uses the 750FX Processor which maxes out at 900MHz.

[Mudbug]

So if I read this right, the chip could be used as a chip-to-chip replacement for the 750X? In other words, a quick and painless upgrade for your existing iBook, or buy a new one and reap the benefits either way.

If I understand, then cool. If I don't (which wouldn't suprise me...) then too bad. I'm always game at keeping the legacy machines alive for that much longer.

[jimthorn]

Sweet. Zippier iBooks just in time for MWSF04.

Upgradeability of older iBooks would be highly unlikely.

[PyroTurtle]

as long as there's one iBook that's got one of these and it under $1K :-D that would be cool

[iJon]

well anything that makes the ibook a better buy. its good to know ibm is with us, no telling what would happen.

iJon

[Macmaniac]

Looks like the G3 for the iBook is alive and well!

[bokdol]

where's gobi? oh but faster ibooks

[Wonder Boy]

Nice, but still no G5...

[gandalf55]

woohoo - bring it on - bring it on.

[arn]

Originally posted by bokdol
where's gobi? oh but faster ibooks

i think this is gobi

arn

[Freg3000]

What happened to Altivec?

[xdfgf]

Obviously this announcement doesnt confim that apple will use it, but damn..

G5 on the high end workstation/servers

G4 on the pro laptops and consumer desktops

G3 on the ultra-light ultra portable iBook


Pretty cool that they have several options now:)

[Ambrose Chapel]

up to 200-MHz operation of the 60x system bus interface with additional bus pipelining.

Does this = 200MHz FSB?

[ouketii]

new ibook. my creditcard. priceless.

[Ensoniq]

I think a 200 MHz increase in speed in the iBook, still with no AltiVec, is not much of an upgrade to the iBook. I mean sure...if Apple MUST keep a G3 in there, it's nice to know faster speeds are coming. But this is certainly no reason to rush out and buy a new iBook, or something to be thrilled about.

-- Ensoniq

[PowerBook User]

Cool! Faster iBooks! I hope these will have Altivec. 1.1 GHz sounds pretty good, but Apple has been updating iBooks 100 MHz at a time. I wonder if they would switch to a 1 GHz low-end and a 1.1 GHz high-end.

[herocero]

i don't see any altivec stuff in their block diagram. wasn't gobi supposed to be the g3 + altivec? (or was it sahara or whatever it was?)
i sure won't complain about faster chips in anything. bring em on!

[impierced]

Originally posted by herocero
i don't see any altivec stuff in their block diagram. wasn't gobi supposed to be the g3 + altivec? (or was it sahara or whatever it was?)
i sure won't complain about faster chips in anything. bring em on!

No, Mojave (750VX) was supposed to introduce AltiVec compatible functionality.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/30640.html

[Fender2112]

I keep seeing the term "embedded". What does this mean in reference to CPU chips?

Thanks for letting me ask. I'll go away now.:(

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by impierced
No, Mojave (750VX) was supposed to introduce AltiVec compatible functionality.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/30640.html

Too many names.....let me see if I have this straight.

Sahara: Current iBook processor
Gobi: Faster processor
Mojave: Altivec enabled processor

Is that right? And if it is, when is Mojave coming?

[Custom Pbook12]

Sweet! hope apple updates before the end of summer.

[phampton81]

Originally posted by Fender2112
I keep seeing the term "embedded". What does this mean in reference to CPU chips?

Thanks for letting me ask. I'll go away now.:(

When the CPU is used for applications other than a PC such as a router or hub they call it an embedded chip.

[KEL9000]

I would like to buy an iBook just not before it has a G4 or equivalent proc.

[adamfilip]

well if the high end ibook goes to 1.1ghz then the low end powerbook g4 will be at like 1.25.. sweet!

[rice_web]

I see this as tremendously helpful for upgrade makers that are starting to push 750FXs into SL iMacs and old G3 towers. I certainly know that this is incentive enough to upgrade my again iMac DV (which can, btw, now be upgraded).

[fpnc]

The 1MB of L2 cache sounds nice. However, a max of 1.1GHz for products that may not ship until sometime in early 2004 seems too little and too late. I would hope that by that time we'll be close to having the G5 in the PowerBooks and that might open the possibility of having G4s in the 1 to 1.2GHz range for the iBooks. So by March 2004 we'd have G4s in the iBook and G5s in the PowerBook. In the meantime it would be nice to have an a G3-based iBook at 1GHz but from the sounds of this press release that doesn't seem likely (too late with production not starting until Dec. 2003).

[rogueimage]

When Mojave (or whichever one has the AltiVec unit) comes out, does that mean there will there be simple, cheap Mojave upgrade chips for my old B/W G3? I would really love to get a Velocity Engine in the thing, and a Mojave upgrade sounds like it might not require a whole new card because it's just another G3.

And also, are any of the spiffy newer video cards available to me, or are they all AGP only? For what is available, would that plug into the "special" PCI graphics slot in my G3, or one of the normal PCI slots?

[job]

Originally posted by rogueimage
And also, are any of the spiffy newer video cards available to me, or are they all AGP only?

Almost all of the modern graphics cards, from the stock Radeons and Geforces all the way up to the current 9600 and 5200 offerings need an AGP bus. AGP 8X is overkill as there isn't anything currently on the market which will completely saturate the graphics bus. However, it does bode well for the future of graphics hardware.

For what is available, would that plug into the "special" PCI graphics slot in my G3, or one of the normal PCI slots?

There's not much out there in terms of PCI graphics. I'm assuming you still have the stock Rage 128 with 16MB of VRAM. Your best bet would be to either track down an original OEM/stock PCI version of the original Radeon (note: no number designation, i.e. 8500, 9700) or the PCI version of the Radeon 7000. From what I've seen, the Radeon 7000 is actually weaker than the original PCI version of the original Radeon. I believe those are the only two 'modern' graphics cards which still support your PCI bus.

[Phinius]

Originally posted by Ensoniq
I think a 200 MHz increase in speed in the iBook, still with no AltiVec, is not much of an upgrade to the iBook.

A 23% greater frequency, plus the L2 cache improvements should add yet another double digit speed increase. That's pretty impressive considering the amount of watts that it will use. The amount of frequency that it will run at is not indicative of its performance in much the same way as Intel's Pentium-M processor. It might also appear that IBM is following Intel's lead with the Pentium-M sporting 1MB of L2 cache.

this is certainly no reason to rush out and buy a new iBook, or something to be thrilled about.

-- Ensoniq

It's very likely that IBM made these improvements mainly for the benefit of Apple. This will give Apple a processor that can outperform the G4 on some applications when both chips are running at 1GHz.

Plus, this new 750GX processor will undoubtedly cost Apple less since it is substantially smaller than the G4.

[boom-boom]

rogueimage

I would not worry about waiting to put a Mojave processor in your B/W, it looks like there should be a G4 processor from Sonnet in a couple of weeks. They have already managed to put a G4 1GHz in a Beige Powermac. Hopefully they will be able to get it all the way up to 1.4 by the time it gets released!!!

[arn]

I think people have some misconceptiosn about the G3 vs the G4. I don't claim to know the details of all the specifics...

but the G3 chip from IBM has been a strong performer. From my understanding these g3's likely perform quite well as compared to similarly mhz'd g4 counterparts.... of course on non-Altivec dependant applications -- which are still the most of your day to day applications.

arn

[Sol]

Would a Transmetta processor be a better alternative than a G3 for the iBook?

The G3 lacks hype but it has been a solid performer so far. My 266MHz iMac still gets things done and feels snappy with OS 9.2 installed.

[tiselday]

It's good to see that IBM is releasing another version of the G3, although the fact that they are using the same 0.13 um technology it is rather dissapointing, I must say.

The increased Mhz would help, but I expect that the new 1MB L2 does contribute much more to performance, and if the processor bus is 200 Mhz, it is time for Apple to design a new chipset to feed the G3 properly!!

So I expect November-December ibooks with that chip

1.1 Ghz G3 with 1 MB L2 cache
200 Mhz front side bus
166 Mhz DDR RAM
8X AGP
...

In addition we will have October-November Powerbooks with the 7457 G4s (generating less heat, GOOD for the 12" model) and well, i am still hoping for a low-power (1.2v) 1.2 Ghz G5 15" powerbook for the end of the year :)

So, well, it MIGHT be the year of the laptop after all :)

[abdul]

There is no need for the g3 to dragged to its death. the g3 @1Ghz is stated as being less than 8, the new g4 runs @ higher speeds but @ 7.5.

in the end the g4s got alvitec and faster clock speeds available. the only advantage of the g3 is cost, but how much does this new g3 cost.....?

[adamfilip]

i find the too little too late.. kinda silly

in a way i agree.. only 1.1 when other chips are in the multi ghz range..

i dont totally understand when some people say if your a pro you need a g5..

1 year ago a pro needed a g4 tower.. now a g5? i mean yeah that would be great!. but a professional can do the same work on a B/W 350MHZ G3 tower as he can on a dual 2ghz g5, it might take substantially longer but the software is the same.

its just silly that people think that since the latest and greatest just came out that the , old latest and greatest isnt capable of doing the same thing or isnt even good enough anymore for more mundane things

my 2 cents

[eav]

Originally posted by job

There's not much out there in terms of PCI graphics. I'm assuming you still have the stock Rage 128 with 16MB of VRAM. Your best bet would be to either track down an original OEM/stock PCI version of the original Radeon (note: no number designation, i.e. 8500, 9700) or the PCI version of the Radeon 7000. From what I've seen, the Radeon 7000 is actually weaker than the original PCI version of the original Radeon. I believe those are the only two 'modern' graphics cards which still support your PCI bus.

As far as I know there are Radeon 7500 PCI 32Mb. I don't know if they will work in your Mac. As there is a small market of PCI graphics (in Alpha workstations, for example) maybe ATI releases a newer video card for PCI. In the USA you can buy the 7500 directly from ATI, in Europe there is at least one company making them: http://www.club-3d.nl/

[flahiker]

Originally posted by adamfilip

i dont totally understand when some people say if your a pro you need a g5..


The reason a pro needs a dual G5 is because time = $$. Think about it.

I design for multi million gate Xilinx FPGAs. (No, damn software does NOT run on a mac!) Compile times take upwards of 30 minutes just to try out a small change. That limits me to 16 design changes in a day max. Realistically it is far fewer than that. If a machine could cut compile times by 50%, the increased productivity directly equals $ on fixed cost contracts.

On hourly contracts, the slower machine makes more sense, cause you can bill more. BUT, it makes you less compettive.

If you are a home user, you do not need the fastest machine ever.

[yzedf]

Originally posted by Mudbug
So if I read this right, the chip could be used as a chip-to-chip replacement for the 750X? In other words, a quick and painless upgrade for your existing iBook, or buy a new one and reap the benefits either way.

If I understand, then cool. If I don't (which wouldn't suprise me...) then too bad. I'm always game at keeping the legacy machines alive for that much longer.
Not right (I think...). The die size is larger (51.9mm^2 versus the current 36.6mm^2). This may lead to a different socket size. Which is probably a good thing, allowing for a bigger fan and heatsink to deal with the extra heat compared to the current 750FX.

But...
The package and chip design are both optimized for the high speeds of the processor core and bus. The 21x21-mm 292-ball Ceramic Ball Grid Array (CBGA) package has a partially depopulated pin-out for ease of board layout with the 1.0-mm pitch of the balls, allowing decoupling capacitors to be placed on the underside of the board, in a tightly grouped pattern within the outline of the processor. The pin-out incorporates the full 60x bus interface, including parity signals, but still fits into a small footprint on a board by eliminating the backside L2 interface and using the small pitch.Which is the same as the 750FX.

"Up to 200MHz bus" scares me. My guess would be that it will be used in the 133MHz state again (750FX can do the 200MHz bus as well)... :(

[Pete_Hoover]

I hope the iBook will be up to a higher frequency than 1.1 GHz before December. This doesn't make such a good year of the notebook.

[Phinius]

Originally posted by Pete_Hoover
I hope the iBook will be up to a higher frequency than 1.1 GHz before December. This doesn't make such a good year of the notebook.

You might see PowerBooks with G4s running up to 1.5-1.6 GHz next month. Motorola has been supplying some 7455 G4s to Apple that use a low-k dielectric process. This bumps the speed up to 20% faster and at lower power than those made without it. The 1.3 GHz 7457 has a lower power use than the 1 GHz 7455, so it could very well be that Apple will use a faster chip than the 1.3 GHz in a PowerBook starting next month.

That would leave room for 1 GHz+ G4s to be move over to the iBook and the upcoming 750GX could be used for a new Apple product announcement in January.

[utilizer]

This might be a terrific upgrade for PowerLogix to invest in for the Pismo PBs. Listen up guys: I'd buy it!

No way am I going buy a G4 laptop now and Moto has driven up the wall, I can't stand them anymore. I'll wait for the G5 PowerBooks, thank you very much!

Besides, the G5 desktop is all I need for heavy duty graphic composition and I can take the 1.1 Ghz Pismo (hopefully) on the road with me with some power to spare. Jump on it PL!:cool:

[crees!]

Originally posted by utilizer
No way am I going buy a G4 laptop now and Moto has driven up the wall, I can't stand them anymore. I'll wait for the G5 PowerBooks, thank you very much!

I think you'll be waiting longer than you want for this one.

[utilizer]

Originally posted by crees!
I think you'll be waiting longer than you want for this one.

It's no problem, I'll just upgrade the 'ole Pismo to 1.1 Ghz for mobility and the Dual 2 Gig G5 will be more than enough to sustain me in the power dept.

[bankshot]

Hmmm. I remember reading somewhere, many months back, that IBM already had G3 processors running at up to 2 GHz. The assertion at the time was that Apple wasn't using them in the iBooks only because it would make the Motorola G4s look bad and cannibalize sales of the PowerBooks.

So, what ever happened to this? Anyone remember it? Was this just talking about lab samples and not production runs? Or completely false? I wish I could remember where I saw that.

Anyway, this isn't so bad as far as upgrades go. I honestly don't feel like my 600 MHz iBook is sluggish at all, and I'm sure a 1.1 GHz would feel downright zippy. It leaves a clear distinction between the iBook and possibly upgraded PowerBooks with ~1.3 GHz G4s, since many consumers won't care about the difference between a G3 and G4, but they can see that the more expensive one (PowerBook) has the higher GHz. Otherwise they'd be confused, and that's bad for sales. Or at least that's what the marketing people seem to think, since they like the product lines to have fairly clear distinctions in terms of performance/features and price.

[sedarby]

Originally posted by adamfilip
i find the too little too late.. kinda silly

in a way i agree.. only 1.1 when other chips are in the multi ghz range..

i dont totally understand when some people say if your a pro you need a g5..

1 year ago a pro needed a g4 tower.. now a g5? i mean yeah that would be great!. but a professional can do the same work on a B/W 350MHZ G3 tower as he can on a dual 2ghz g5, it might take substantially longer but the software is the same.

its just silly that people think that since the latest and greatest just came out that the , old latest and greatest isnt capable of doing the same thing or isnt even good enough anymore for more mundane things

my 2 cents

The point is the faster a task can be completed, the more tasks one can take on which converts to more cash hence productivity. It is critical in many industries to have the fastest available, not to mention to be the first on your block with a dual 2 ghz G5.

[altivec 2003]

Originally posted by sedarby

not to mention to be the first on your block with a dual 2 ghz G5.
lol.... That wouldn't be too hard for me if i were getting a dual 2 ghz g5. Nobody on my street has a mac other than me :rolleyes:. I feel like I am in Peeceeville :(.

[Kitschy]

Looking at a time-table it seems that some of you are stating a November/December or even January iBook update. Since the iBook is geared heavily towards students, I would think that Apple would want to update their iBooks at the end of the summer for the back-to-school-rush. How do you think this factors into the iBook release equation, if at all? Anybody?

[frescies]

Originally posted by Freg3000
Too many names.....let me see if I have this straight.

Sahara: Current iBook processor
Gobi: Faster processor
Mojave: Altivec enabled processor

Is that right? And if it is, when is Mojave coming?


Um.... Why are the G3 architectures named after deserts???

Just curious. I mean... Why not rodent species or something....

Ground Shrew: Current iBook processor
Tree Rat: Faster Processor
Long-Haired Hampster: Altivec enabled

[ryan]

Originally posted by adamfilip
well if the high end ibook goes to 1.1ghz then the low end powerbook g4 will be at like 1.25.. sweet!
And why would that be? Currently the top of the line iBook has a higher MHz rating than the low end TiPB (900MHz vs 867MHz).

[Abstract]

None of this is good. We'll have 1.1GHz iBooks by December 2003? Maybe later than that!! I hope IBM can get some of these babies into the iBook come November instead of Dec/January. Maybe Apple can get an earlier batch and release an iBook in November?

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/flags/canada.gif -- Canada Day: July 1, 1867

[jhar257]

An ibook running at 1.1GHz with a 200 MHz bus and 1Mb L2 cache will trounce the current 12 inch powerbook. So there is no way they can use this chip until they can upgrade the 12 inch powerbook to at least 1 GHz WITH L3 cache. Of course they can always cripple the ibook;)

[fpnc]

Everyone who is saying that 1.1GHz is fine __would__ be correct if that system were available today or perhaps even three months from now. If IBM says that they plan on entering into production in December you have to allow some time for Apple to actually build new iBooks using these chips. So I'd say that a January 2004 ship date seems on the optimistic side, possibly later. That's over __six__ months from today, so I stand by my original statement -- too little and too late. Of course, maybe IBM will pull another "fast one" and introduce speeds at between 1.2 and 1.3 GHz (and sooner rather than later).

Apple's competition in the iBook/G3 product space probably has to be considered the Pentium M (Centrino products). However, the Pentium M low-end is already in the 1.2GHz to 1.3Ghz range (today, not in six more months). On the high-end Intel is already shipping Pentium Ms at 1.7GHz. So, while Apple is beginning to regain parity in the desktop space with the G5 it looks like there may be trouble ahead for the G3 notebook product line. And like I said, if we're lucky we may see G5 notebooks in the first quarter of 2004, and that would allow the G4s to move into the iBook line (assuming that Apple and Motorola remain in business together).

[Puppies]

Yeah, while I'm certainlly happy with anything that gives Apple more options-this would have been exciting three years ago. Now it's just...whatever.

And the current G3 can ALREADY use a 200MHZ system bus, it's just that Apple cripples it to 100mhz to make the jump from a G3 to a G4 larger. Apple could technically throw a Radeon 9600/Geforce 5600, 1Ghz G3 w/200mhz system bus and at least PC2100 DDR RAM together right now if they wanted to.

[macphoria]

So if this mythical AltiVec/SIMD enabled G3 from IBM called "Mojave" or 750vx does come out, what are the chances of it being called G4?

What would be better, newer G4 from Motorola or 750vx in the new iBook?

[utilizer]

Originally posted by macphoria
So if this mythical AltiVec/SIMD enabled G3 from IBM called "Mojave" or 750vx does come out, what are the chances of it being called G4?

What would be better, newer G4 from Motorola or 750vx in the new iBook?

I'd say the G4 and I'll qualify that statement: The G4 only if Apple pairs it with L3 cache, since a 200 mhz FSB is still waaayyy too slow for such an efficient chip. That is the worst thing Motorola did. They didn't design the elements around the system, they just made the parts and put 'em all together.
Just look at how the IBM/Apple G5 architecture looks up against anything Moto has ever done. Everything was designed from the ground up to work with every part in there to the best ability and some we wait for (AGP 8x). It's pitiful what Moto has done, although gotta hand it to them, great stop gap measures. (although, yes I know the Gobi is an IBM manufactured chip, but only modified by them, NOT designed by them, but ultimately Moto made the G3/G4 variants.)

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by frescies
Um.... Why are the G3 architectures named after deserts???


Probably 'cause there is no life left in both of them.
Get real. Starting half a year from now a G3@1.1 Ghz. I can't imagine anyone getting over excited on that one. It's hardly ground breaking news if Apple were to announce a 1.1. Ghz G3 iBook @ MWSF '04.... unless it were $ 599,- or so.

Still its nice having options.

[analogkid]

Originally posted by utilizer
This might be a terrific upgrade for PowerLogix to invest in for the Pismo PBs. Listen up guys: I'd buy it!

No way am I going buy a G4 laptop now and Moto has driven up the wall, I can't stand them anymore. I'll wait for the G5 PowerBooks, thank you very much!

Besides, the G5 desktop is all I need for heavy duty graphic composition and I can take the 1.1 Ghz Pismo (hopefully) on the road with me with some power to spare. Jump on it PL!:cool:


Make mine Wallstreet. The best Powerbook yet.
how about 2 pmcia slots, 3(!) harddrives, and built in scsi and serial (which are important to my old synth devices)
The current upgrade card from Sonnett is a 500mhz G4 for $400, supporting 512mb ram... not bad for a Wallstreet but it would be nice if they doubled it.

[murak]

With the G5 live and kicking Apple should increse the performance of the other computers faster than before. Speed gap is a problem, and I don´t think we should blame anyone for it - everybody is guilty, big blue should have released the "G5" earlyer, Motorola should have made the lowpower G4 available sooner and Apple should have pushed them both. The G3 is a fine cpu and there is no reason to replace it. Altivec is nice but more expensive and does not fit into the iBook line of thinking. Higher bus speed and more cache will boost performance a bit and give OSX a more rapid feel. New iBooks should be out before end of summer, considering the resent price fall. Ibook is here to stay.

And thats my oppinion, so you can´t tuch me

[BenRoethig]

There's another possibility. The 750GX could be for the embedded market only. It would not surprise me if Apple requested an Altivec G3 at the same time as they inquired about the 970.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by adamfilip
1 year ago a pro needed a g4 tower.. now a g5? i mean yeah that would be great!. but a professional can do the same work on a B/W 350MHZ G3 tower as he can on a dual 2ghz g5, it might take substantially longer but the software is the same.



If you spend any of your time waiting for your computer, and you are in a competitive field, then, yes, you need the latest and greatest. Why? Because if you don't have it, your competition will.

It doesn't matter much how efficient you are if half of your time is spent waiting for the computer to do its part and your competition doesn't have to wait at all. Even if they take half again as much time to do stuff, since they don't have to wait on their computer they end up getting the job done faster (and cheaper) than you.

But, yes, if you never find yourself waiting on your computer, then a faster machine is not going to help you.

[NNO-Stephen]

This would be good for PB G3 upgrades... Pismo already has a 900Mhz G3 upgrade, but it only has 512k of L2 Cache... 1MB would be nice... would keep the Pismo rockin for another year or two beyond the current G3/900Mhz upgrade.

[Phinius]

If Apple intends to only use the 750 processors for the iBooks then the next upgrade for the iBooks will be in December or January. It's fairly obvious that Apple will use the G4 in the iBooks very soon to make it more competitive in performance and this will probably be announced by Steve Jobs this month.

It would appear that Apple has other intentions for the 750GX other than the current sized iBooks. Since the 750GX is scheduled to be made in December its likely that a new product will be announced by Apple in January that makes use of this low watt 750GX. Perhaps some sort of a Apple tablet computer?