World of Warcraft. Macbook PRO Santa Rosa nvidia 8600GT

[senc01a]

Hi. I've just ordered a new MBP SR nvidia 8600 128 ddr memory.
I've searched the forums very intensively and I havn't found a nice thread about Wow on the new macbooks.
I hope that any of you can answer the following questions.

1. How many FPS do you get while playing it on either of the models, 128ddr, 256ddr? This question should be answered considering:
Different graphics mode. Solo playing in Outland, Party on a dungeon, Raiding 25 or 40 man.

2. Have any of you been able to play in on Windows XP or Vista with Boot camp using any kind of official or non official drivers?

3. How much compromised is performanced while playing listeing to music with Itunes and using Ventrilo or Teamspeak.

4. Heat questions such as fan noise while playing for more than one or two hours. Temperature on different parts of the MBP such as keyboard, bottom side, etc.

5. Difference on heat & performance while playing on windows and OSX.

6. FPS using a full UI with all the raiding addons such as ORA2, Swstats, Sraidframes, etc.

7. Batterly life while playing it unpluged.

8. Ping, heat, lifetime battery and performance differences while playing with Ethernet or Wireless adapter.

Please add up any other questions.

Thanks in advance and sorry for my spelling (I'm from Europe and english is not my "born language").

[jellz]

You do know that these bad boys have only been out for a day....;)

[senc01a]

You do know that these bad boys have only been out for a day....;)

So? ;)

[Eraserhead]

I'm sure it'll be fine!

[WinterMute]

I play on a standard MBP 17", 2.16Ghz core duo, 2Gb RAM with the Radeon X1600 256Mb card.

I get between 25 and 60fps with Ventrillo and a host of add-ons running, depending on location.

I get 25-30 fps in the Gruul 25 man encounter.

I play with a wireless connection to an Airport Extreme and a 2Mbps connection, ping on a lag free server is around 60ms usually.

I should expect the new books to be much better than these figures given the graphics cards etc.

I don't think you'll have any complaints.

[CyberPrey]

1. How many FPS do you get while playing it on either of the models, 128ddr, 256ddr? This question should be answered considering:
Different graphics mode. Solo playing in Outland, Party on a dungeon, Raiding 25 or 40 man.
Everyone is concerned wtih FPS... don't be. As long as your FPS is generally above 35 or so, you are not going to suffer any lag or delay or gaming inconvienience.. and the new macbook pro should easily kick 35+fps.

2. Have any of you been able to play in on Windows XP or Vista with Boot camp using any kind of official or non official drivers?
Yes. I run WoW in both OS X and Bootcamp... I use ATI's own drivers for my X1900XT on my mac pro though... I very much prefer to run wow under os x though. I >>ASSUME<< you would be able to run NVidia's own drivers under windows.. however.. there ARE some laptops that can NOT run nvidia reference drivers.. like my Dell XPS M170.. it has a 7800GTX, but its a bastardized version.. its fast as heck, but it is NOT a 100&#37; duplicate of the laptop 7800GTX Reference card....

3. How much compromised is performanced while playing listeing to music with Itunes and using Ventrilo or Teamspeak.
On OS X, I never ever suffer any lag running WoW, Itunes, Teamspeak, SEti@home, Parallels Desktp (running XP Pro for my work)....

4. Heat questions such as fan noise while playing for more than one or two hours. Temperature on different parts of the MBP such as keyboard, bottom side, etc.
Can't Answer as I run a Mac Pro...

5. Difference on heat & performance while playing on windows and OSX.
Can't Answer as I run a Mac Pro

6. FPS using a full UI with all the raiding addons such as ORA2, Swstats, Sraidframes, etc.
Can't give you a PERFECT answer, but just as in #1 you should not have a problem...

7. Batterly life while playing it unpluged.
Can't answer well, but if it is anythign like my Dell XPS M170, about 1 hour....

8. Ping, heat, lifetime battery and performance differences while playing with Ethernet or Wireless adapter.
Can't give good answer as I run a Mac Pro

[topgunn]

Don't confuse the 8600 GT with the 8600M GT. If you are looking at benchmarks of the former regarding the Macbook Pro, you will be disappointed with the actual results. The 8600M GT is a bit faster than the go 7600 GT although it has DX10 whereas the 7600 does not.

[Xelnaga15]

installing wow right now! ill let yo know what i can

[Anorak]

installing wow right now! ill let yo know what i can

Dumb question, but I know that WoW was designed with Mac in mind (universal binary), so can you run the same install discs? I'm just wondering if I'll have to buy another copy of WoW, even though I own it on the PC.

[miniConvert]

Dumb question, but I know that WoW was designed with Mac in mind (universal binary), so can you run the same install discs? I'm just wondering if I'll have to buy another copy of WoW, even though I own it on the PC.
I believe all the CD's work on both Mac and PC, so you should be fine - all of mine do :)

[Vidd]

Speaking of benchmarks, does anyone know the site which benchmarks all of Apple's new hardware?
The actual website is dedicated to benchmarks in general, I think, but I can't remember the name of it.

[Xelnaga15]

Dumb question, but I know that WoW was designed with Mac in mind (universal binary), so can you run the same install discs? I'm just wondering if I'll have to buy another copy of WoW, even though I own it on the PC.

yep im useing the same disks i use on my pc

[ravenvii]

Speaking of benchmarks, does anyone know the site which benchmarks all of Apple's new hardware?
The actual website is dedicated to benchmarks in general, I think, but I can't remember the name of it.

barefeats.com

[jblodgett]

installing wow right now! ill let yo know what i can

Looking forward to hearing your results.
Unfortunately, it takes forever to install the game and then to download all of the updates from Blizzard.

Will be interested to hear your FPS in Ironforge and so forth. Let us know your various settings, too.

I am giving thought to leaving my wonderful iBook G4 (1.33 with 32 megs of Vram) to come to the newest MBP -- and I'm exciting about seeing the game in a whole new way.

[Xelnaga15]

Looking forward to hearing your results.
Unfortunately, it takes forever to install the game and then to download all of the updates from Blizzard.

Will be interested to hear your FPS in Ironforge and so forth. Let us know your various settings, too.

I am giving thought to leaving my wonderful iBook G4 (1.33 with 32 megs of Vram) to come to the newest MBP -- and I'm exciting about seeing the game in a whole new way.

yeah the update is taking the longest!

[Eidorian]

Hay guys (http://barefeats.com/santarosa.html)...

[Xelnaga15]

so wow is finnishing up on its last patch and well i installed Vista 64 and 32 bit (you see in a sec) i dont have them both installed I started with 64 bit and I couldent find video drivers so i thought maybe 64 bit drivers arnt out yet so I switched to 32 bit and same result... :-( unfortunatly the boot camp equiped with vista drivers doesnt have drivers for the SR hardware nor drivers for the 8600m GT I tried useing the Asus drivers for the 8600 in their laptop but it doesnt like it something is a bit differnt so im installing Cross mac Ill let you know what FPS i get in CS:S

[GFLPraxis]

Hi. I've just ordered a new MBP SR nvidia 8600 128 ddr memory.


Since they were announced yesterday, nobody here has one. You'll be the first to get one.

[Xelnaga15]

Since they were announced yesterday, nobody here has one. You'll be the first to get one.

Ummm... plenty of people have them ... im typeing on one ... you know there is this place called the Apple store .... its located in the real world and they have REAL apple products on shelves and in stock and IF! you have real money they can give you apple products right then and there! :eek:

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/xelnaga15/Picture1.png

[Mantronix]

installing wow right now! ill let yo know what i canCan you run some FPS tests in Shatt city and in open space areas? I'm curious how would WoW run on the newchip set and graphic card. I'm now debating between the macbook pro or the upcoming Imac.

[Mantronix]

Hay guys (http://barefeats.com/santarosa.html)...Hmmmm... Imac still has better performances gaming wise. I'm now curious how the Imac would run with the new chipset.

[Eidorian]

Hmmmm... Imac still has better performances gaming wise. I'm now curious how the Imac would run with the new chipset.The iMac is running a desktop 7600GT though.

[Mantronix]

The iMac is running a desktop 7600GT though.

Gotcha. ;) As long they can play WoW and upcoming Starcraft 2 game I'm content.

[jblodgett]

No doubt the upcoming iMac revisions and upgrades will have the graphic power to handle these games. Blizzard makes cross platform games-- and you can bet that the games they make will work on Apple's machines.

The iMac uses a desktop graphics card- the MBP uses a laptop graphics card. Big difference.

[Mantronix]

No doubt the upcoming iMac revisions and upgrades will have the graphic power to handle these games. Blizzard makes cross platform games-- and you can bet that the games they make will work on Apple's machines.

The iMac uses a desktop graphics card- the MBP uses a laptop graphics card. Big difference.I wasn't aware. I thought the Imac uses the same type of graphic card as MBP. In that case yeah, I can understand why the huge difference in performance.

[jblodgett]

I wasn't aware. I thought the Imac uses the same type of graphic card as MBP. In that case yeah, I can understand why the huge difference in performance.

If you notice, the newly release MBP comes with the 8600M graphics card.
M stands for Mobile.

The chipset on the mobile card has been scaled back for battery conservation and heat expansion purposes. So while they could have the same numbers - the two cards are being treated very differently by the two computers.

The iMac's card may be set to operate at 650Mhz. (I am making those numbers up- I have no idea.) That generates a lot of heat and uses a lot of power. Therefore, the MBP card may be set to operate at 300Mhz. Much less heat and much less power. Keeps the battery lasting longer and keeps your legs from burning up when you use it. And- because the graphic's chip is toned down some, those heat/energy savings come at the price of some graphics power.

[Xelnaga15]

so i did some tests and i dunno if you would believe me unless i SSd it lol but ... check it out ... max EVERYTHING except AA

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/xelnaga15/122.png



So yeah thats the max i can get im in Shatt but im in a building (note this was the max i could catch on SS ive seen it spike as high as 150+)

in shat standing still with tons of people in bank varried from 22-40 fps (rarly 22) now riding around i got about 22-26fps flying out it droped to 17 once but I think it was just a hicup for the flight out stayed around 22-30 fps once out of the city frames seriously pickedup to 40+ flying around I then went questing with a party and did the ring of blood the frames rarely hit <49 durring the fight the average was about 58 and the peak durrign fight was about 67 let me know if you want me to test something specifically

[Pookieinc]

Can someone play some other games? Hows HL:2 or Far Cry or FEAR on the new MBP's? I'm very curious. Thanks!

[Eidorian]

Company of Heroes...

[Mac.Jnr]

If you could test how the following games run.
CS: Source, Test Drive and Rainbow Six: Vegas

Thank you, you don't really need to do all of them just CS: Source results would make me content.

Thank you!

[miller218]

I wasn't aware. I thought the Imac uses the same type of graphic card as MBP. In that case yeah, I can understand why the huge difference in performance.

I think the video chip in the 17s and the 20s have the same chip as the (now old ) MPBs (X1600 mobile), but the 24 comes with either a 7300 or 7600 Nvidia chip. Being the new MBP has a 8600 Nvidia chip, one would think it's faster, at least until the updated iMacs come out (soon, one would think)

[Swarmlord]

Dumb question, but I know that WoW was designed with Mac in mind (universal binary), so can you run the same install discs? I'm just wondering if I'll have to buy another copy of WoW, even though I own it on the PC.

Nope. If you already have an account, you can install it on your Mac as well as your PC. You can only log into your account on one computer at a time anyway.

[Kasper Winding]

Nope. If you already have an account, you can install it on your Mac as well as your PC. You can only log into your account on one computer at a time anyway.


Sorry to say but it is possible to log in to 2 accounts at the same time. Been doing it for a long time, when i Twink my friends char when he is at work.

[Veldek]

I think the video chip in the 17s and the 20s have the same chip as the (now old ) MPBs (X1600 mobile), but the 24 comes with either a 7300 or 7600 Nvidia chip. Being the new MBP has a 8600 Nvidia chip, one would think it's faster, at least until the updated iMacs come out (soon, one would think)I saw benchmarks where the iMac still beats the new MBPs.

Sorry to say but it is possible to log in to 2 accounts at the same time. Been doing it for a long time, when i Twink my friends char when he is at work.He never said you couldn't...

[eXan]

I saw benchmarks where the iMac still beats the new MBPs.

Maybe that was a 24" iMac with 7600 GT? :rolleyes:

[CyberPrey]

He never said you couldn't.....

Kasper Winding:
What he stated is that you can not log into the SAME account TWICE.. a/k/a you can not log into the same account on two different computers at the same time.

anyone can log into world of warcraft with as many accounts as they please.

and.. on a personal note, if your friend can't play his own character.. thats pretty sad... Considering WoW is probably the easiest MMO in existance....

[martianrobot]

Thanks in advance and sorry for my spelling (I'm from Europe and english is not my "born language").




I'm from Europe too and English is my born language. I shouldn't worry about your spelling, it was very good... in fact most English people can't write as well as you did. These days most of them write like this:

HI M8 GR8 2 C U YES2DY NEWAY OPE U R STLL CUMIN 2 PUB 2NITE WOTEVA

All I have to say to that is:

SHKSPR WUD TRN IN IS GRV

Regards from martianrobot,
English English (as opposed to American English)

[FleurDuMal]

I saw benchmarks where the iMac still beats the new MBPs.



Despite that (and, btw, there are some people on different forums who dispute those results after doing their own comparisons) I'd still suggest the MBP is more future proof for gaming. With the 24" iMac you're stuck at playing games at 1920x1200 unless you're willing to switch down and play at non-native resolutions. With the 15" MBP you can play at 1440x900. I would think that the 8600M GT is better at driving 1440x900 than the 7600GT is at driving 1920x1200, and as such the MBP will be able to play games adequately for longer than the 24" iMac.

All that of course is mere speculation. It might not be right, but I get the impression that it is more than likely to be the case.

[martianrobot]

As regards 7600GT vs 8600GT (either desktop or mobile versions) ... lots of benchmarking has been done in the PC world and the 8600GT only performs as well as, or worse than (sometimes much worse than), the 7600GT, with only a few titles it slightly outperforms it.

There is a lot of derisory hoo-haa about these new GPUs, and fans of the midrange nVidia GT family (started with the 6600GT, followed succesfully on by the 7600GT) are very disappointed. The 8600GT *might* play future (Windows) DX10 games better than the 7600GT, but by the time any DX10 games are released the 8600GT will probably be old hat and too slow.

I was looking to upgrade my media centre/gaming PC with an 8600GT, but after reading the reviews my trusty well loved 7600GT is staying well put.

I've been considering getting a 24" iMac for creative/work usage, and would definitely go for the 7600GT version just in case I wanted to whack some games on. But after reading the rumours, I was going to hold out for the incremental update that will so obviously be coming. I've predicted the X1600 and 7600GT in the iMacs will be replaced by 8500GT (20") & 8600GT/S(24"), plus the usual CPU, memory and hard drive boosts, but there won't be a redesign yet (Hoorah! The chinny white iMac rules the gorgeous design roost and always will!).

Still, the 8600m GT is better than the Mobility X1600 - a good choice for the MacBook Pro methinks. I just hope they work out how to get the full desktop version of it in the iMac case without crippling it or fobbing us off with the monbile variant!

I'll just have to wait and see what next week brings, but I'm still looking at a 24" iMac with a 7600GT :)

[martianrobot]

Can someone play some other games? Hows HL:2 or Far Cry or FEAR on the new MBP's? I'm very curious. Thanks!

HL:2 should play fine, but then it did on the X1600. Don't forget HL:2 is almost 3 years old - so it is hardly a cutting edge gaming benchmark anymore (even though it is the best game in the world ever).

HL:2 is always very good scaling to a system. It was the first thing I did on my 20" iMac when BootCamp was released, and it ran smooth as butter even at 1680x1050 (though I had to turn FSAA off when near water for some reason). Hell, it even runs pretty good on my MacBook, with most settings up high and full 1280x800 resolution!

Far Cry should be quite a bit better on the new MBP as I think it's more optimised for nVidia. Not sure about FEAR, but probably will get a boost.

What I'm more concerend about is Oblivion performance - that ran like a dog on my X1600 iMAc, but runs great on my 7600GT enabled PC.

[Wallace86]

Despite that (and, btw, there are some people on different forums who dispute those results after doing their own comparisons) I'd still suggest the MBP is more future proof for gaming. With the 24" iMac you're stuck at playing games at 1920x1200 unless you're willing to switch down and play at non-native resolutions. With the 15" MBP you can play at 1440x900. I would think that the 8600M GT is better at driving 1440x900 than the 7600GT is at driving 1920x1200, and as such the MBP will be able to play games adequately for longer than the 24" iMac.

All that of course is mere speculation. It might not be right, but I get the impression that it is more than likely to be the case.

so are you saying that the 15" is actually better than the 17" due to its lower resolution? i want to play games but i was thinking that the 15" would possibly be to small....would the high (not the upgraded super high) resolution of the 17" screens be to much for alot of games (like fps)??? :confused:

[FleurDuMal]

so are you saying that the 15" is actually better than the 17" due to its lower resolution? i want to play games but i was thinking that the 15" would possibly be to small....would the high (not the upgraded super high) resolution of the 17" screens be to much for alot of games (like fps)??? :confused:

I'm just using the low resolution = easier to drive (and vice-versa) rule of thumb to suggest that getting the system with the most powerful GPU doesn't always mean you're getting a better machine for gaming. How big the gap is between driving a 1440x900 monitor and a 1600x1050 (or whatever it is) monitor, I don't know. I'd wait around for a few benchmarks before taking the plunge.

[martianrobot]

With the 24" iMac you're stuck at playing games at 1920x1200 unless you're willing to switch down and play at non-native resolutions. With the 15" MBP you can play at 1440x900. I would think that the 8600M GT is better at driving 1440x900 than the 7600GT is at driving 1920x1200, and as such the MBP will be able to play games adequately for longer than the 24" iMac.


True, playing games at a lower resolution helps speed them up, so if your screen has a lot of pixels on it, the graphics chip has to work harder, unless you drop the screen resolution. I don't think anybody would try to play any games at 1920x1200 resolution with anything but the most very recent high-spec graphics cards, and downscaling to a lower screen res in a game doesn't necessarily look bad, depending on the game (though that is something I miss big fugly CRTs for).

To be honest, playing games on a monitor that size can't be good for you, unless you sit back a bit. I used to be a sit-at-my-desk PC gamer, but now that I've relegated my PC to being a mediacentre/gaming PC plugged into a 26" LCD TV running at 1280x720, I sit on my sofa 8ft away and use an Xbox 360 controller. Nothing to stop a 24" iMac user doing the same .... well, unless they don't have a sofa 8ft away in their trendy media/design studio that is :)

[Wallace86]

ohh...thanx for the rply. for those of you with 15" displays, do you find them to be "big enough" for enjoying games and dvds, or do u ever wish you would have got a 17" instead..

[Wallace86]

martianrobot, can you use a 360 controller on a MBP? also, do you think a 17" is to big / to high resolution for gaming and such? (im new pleas don make funn of me!!):rolleyes:

[martianrobot]

martianrobot, can you use a 360 controller on a MBP? also, do you think a 17" is to big / to high resolution for gaming and such? (im new pleas don make funn of me!!):rolleyes:

I can't see any reason why you couldn't use a wired Xbox 360 gamepad on a MacBook Pro or iMac as the pad uses a standard USB port. You might have problems if playing games in OSX rather than BootCamp'd Windows, as Microsoft probably only provide drivers for Windows. I think the wireless 360 controller will work if you buy a special receiver made for Windows by Microsoft, but it might involve more configuration, and less time playing as you wait for the batteries to recharge ;)

However, surprisingly few PC games support the Xbox 360 gamepad out of the box, and you often end up having to use a third party app to make it the emulate the keyboard and mouse. I use Pinnacle Profiler for most games, apart from the newer Tomb Raider games which support it straight up, and very well too!

Pinnacle's not free but only US$20, and you can download 'official' and user created gaming profiles for free, most of which work quite well, though some need some tweaking for personal tastes. Or you can creat your own.

I'm currently playing Half-Life 2 Episode One, Oblivion, Prey, Tomb Raider Anniversary, Deus Ex 2 and STALKER using the gamepad. It took some getting used to and some games, such as fast FPS, are a bit more work than a keyboard and mouse. But after a few months I actually find it weird and awkward going back to them, and the Xbox 360 gamepad is a very comfortable ergonomic design which helps reduce my achy 'mouse-wrist'.

As regards your MBP 17" gaming resolution question, and it's hard to say without having one in front of me (Yes please! Anybody want to swap a one month old white 13" MacBook for one?), but I think it would be able to cope with most older and current games at 1680x1050, as long as you have some settings turned down, and are running games in Windows XP under BootCamp, and arent expecting blistering framerates to PWN everybody in CT:S. Some games you might need to reduce the resolution though.

However, I really don't think the extra price of the 17" MacBook Pro is worth it and unless you are a graphics/editing guy on the move, you probably don't need that extra resolution. Also, the 17" doesn't look *that much* bigger than the 15" when side by side, so you probably won't feel let down by how good DVDs and games will look on the 15". To be honest, the 15" are overpriced as it is, and I would definitely not bother with the 'midrange' MBP as it's only got a slightly higher spec for a much larger amount of cash.

I would suggest getting a 15", and if you need the extra resolution occasionally, why not get a nice external monitor? Not one of those overpriced Apple jobbies though. I picked up a nice 20" widesceen one running at 1680x1050 for UK&#163;112 (US&#163;220?) the other day, to plug my MacBook into when I need a bit of extra space for GimpShop, Final Cut Express or Garageband.

PS: Why would I make fun of you? You haven't done or said anything to offend or annoy! I'm a newbie too BTW, well, to this forum anyway.

[SilentCrs]

so i did some tests and i dunno if you would believe me unless i SSd it lol but ... check it out ... max EVERYTHING except AA

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f248/xelnaga15/122.png



So yeah thats the max i can get im in Shatt but im in a building (note this was the max i could catch on SS ive seen it spike as high as 150+)

in shat standing still with tons of people in bank varried from 22-40 fps (rarly 22) now riding around i got about 22-26fps flying out it droped to 17 once but I think it was just a hicup for the flight out stayed around 22-30 fps once out of the city frames seriously pickedup to 40+ flying around I then went questing with a party and did the ring of blood the frames rarely hit <49 durring the fight the average was about 58 and the peak durrign fight was about 67 let me know if you want me to test something specifically

Turn off full screen glow. It's a major performance hog and it looks horrible anyway. You should get better numbers.

[Willis]

HI M8 GR8 2 C U YES2DY NEWAY OPE U R STLL CUMIN 2 PUB 2NITE WOTEVA

All I have to say to that is:

SHKSPR WUD TRN IN IS GRV

Regards from martianrobot,
English English (as opposed to American English)

Took me a while to understand 'SHKSPR WUD TRN IN IS GRV'.. I was like :eek: :eek: :eek:

For those who havent got a clue, Shakespeare would turn in his grave

[martianrobot]

Took me a while to understand 'SHKSPR WUD TRN IN IS GRV'.. I was like :eek: :eek: :eek:

For those who havent got a clue, Shakespeare would turn in his grave

WEL DUN M8, 5* 4 UR EFUT

;)

[insertcoin]

Turn off full screen glow. It's a major performance hog and it looks horrible anyway. You should get better numbers.

i don't know if this is also true for macs, but you could also try to turn off hardware cursor and smooth mouse. that gave me a great performance boost.

[darkcurse]

OK really silly question I think, but say I get the "PC" version of the game can I still install it on my mac? Because where I live, there are different versions of the game being sold for PC and MAC and the MAC disks are more expensive than the PC one's :S

[MacRumorUser]

OK really silly question I think, but say I get the "PC" version of the game can I still install it on my mac? Because where I live, there are different versions of the game being sold for PC and MAC and the MAC disks are more expensive than the PC one's :S

All Blizzard games that are available on mac, come on PC/MAC discs

Both versions are on there. There are some retailers who try and charge more when you buy it specifically for the mac.

World of Warcraft was £17.99 when listed on an online store for PC and £34.99 for Mac - on the same website

Yet it's the same thing disc literally. :rolleyes: Just greedy retailers.

[senc01a]

I bought Wow in a regular store and it comes with the mac version.
As you already know once you install it it upgrades to the latest (2.1 nowadays) version which is universal off course.

[senc01a]

Thanks for all of the replys.

OK. So it will probably run fine in terms of fps with the 8600M GT and so.

But what about the heat issue?
Has any of you played for long Wow in one of the new SR MBP to see how hot it gets? How fast do the fans run?

Thanks again!

[darkcurse]

All Blizzard games that are available on mac, come on PC/MAC discs

Both versions are on there. There are some retailers who try and charge more when you buy it specifically for the mac.

World of Warcraft was £17.99 when listed on an online store for PC and £34.99 for Mac - on the same website

Yet it's the same thing disc literally. :rolleyes: Just greedy retailers.

Ah right, thanks for clearing that up. I'll be getting the PC.. Uh I mean, the cheaper discs then ^_^

[Erasmus]

Anyone done any benchmarking using Bootcamp with official nvidia drivers yet? I think that might give a really decent kick to the performance of the card. I have a feeling looking at stuff on the net (Card should be 2+ times better than X1600, but yet X1600 flogs it in UT2004) that the drivers for it (mainly talking about the OSX ones here) are shot.

So, anyone wanna give it a go? WOW in Bootcamp everything full, vs under OSX?

Oh, and it seems like the 8600 is underclocked a tad for the core, but a fair bit for the memory. nvidia website says it should be 700MHz, Barefeats says it's only 635MHz. Oh well. It's not that much really.

[odinsride]

I just wanted to add my own personal experience with WoW on my new 17" high res MBP.

It runs incredibly well, just as well as my PC used to run it (4400 x2, 2gb, 7800gt). I ran around in Orgrimmar and saw framerates of around 40-70. Quite impressed with this 1920x1200 resolution, and impressed by the fact it runs so well at a high res. I was expecting decent performance but it has surpassed my expectations.

My only complaint is that the fans get extremely noisy when playing, but that's okay because I usually have my music cranked during WoW sessions :p

[Temjin]

Hi guys, first time on the forums here. I'm a happy new owner of a Macbook Pro, Santa Rosa chipset w/128mb 8600m GT. However, I'm experiencing some questionable performance issues when using my Macbook Pro during 3D gaming. Such as WoW, Quake 4 and more. I notice many games have severe hiccups, or hitching issues. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm hoping it's not a hardware problem. Everything else seems to be functioning just fine.

[Demon Hunter]

I just wanted to add my own personal experience with WoW on my new 17" high res MBP.

It runs incredibly well, just as well as my PC used to run it (4400 x2, 2gb, 7800gt). I ran around in Orgrimmar and saw framerates of around 40-70. Quite impressed with this 1920x1200 resolution, and impressed by the fact it runs so well at a high res. I was expecting decent performance but it has surpassed my expectations.

My only complaint is that the fans get extremely noisy when playing, but that's okay because I usually have my music cranked during WoW sessions :p

Did you go with glossy or matte? I can't wait to get mine. The performance of this 8600M GT is unbelievable.

[odinsride]

Did you go with glossy or matte? I can't wait to get mine. The performance of this 8600M GT is unbelievable.

I went with matte - I have glossy on my MacBook and can't really say that I'm a huge fan of the glossy screens.

[Freyqq]

tiberium wars

128 meg video card version


i get about 20 fps with everything on high, but no AA.

perfectly playable.


oblivion

max settings mostly, 1440x900, HDR, no AA

i get about 15-25 outside, city - i can't remember exactly but 50+ i think.

[Freyqq]

OK really silly question I think, but say I get the "PC" version of the game can I still install it on my mac? Because where I live, there are different versions of the game being sold for PC and MAC and the MAC disks are more expensive than the PC one's :S

for pc games u need bootcamp.

[Erasmus]

tiberium wars

128 meg video card version


i get about 20 fps with everything on high, but no AA.

perfectly playable.


oblivion

max settings mostly, 1440x900, HDR, no AA

i get about 15-25 outside, city - i can't remember exactly but 50+ i think.

Yay! Now we just need someone with the 2.4GHz 256MB to do the same...
But looking good!

[colocolo]

All Blizzard games that are available on mac, come on PC/MAC discs

Both versions are on there. There are some retailers who try and charge more when you buy it specifically for the mac.

World of Warcraft was £17.99 when listed on an online store for PC and £34.99 for Mac - on the same website

Yet it's the same thing disc literally. :rolleyes: Just greedy retailers.

That doesn't apply everywhere. Darkcurse, check the requirements on your disc first. Several mac games available from Blizzard (eg, Warcraft III) was hybrid on its English version; when it came to Chile, translated into spanish, it was only PC. I had a copy of it in English but bought a copy in Spanish just to make sure it wasn't just that the case didn't show the right requirements; it was imposssible to install on a mac.
Seems that the guys who translate the games don't always put all the packages or don't have the tools to do it.

Anyways, after that experience. I'd always check the requirements first just in case.

I reckon in WoW case it might be different, but after the Warcraft III translation disc fiasco, I'd be wary :)

[sam700nf]

To top, I would like to hear the answer on this one.

[odinsride]

I did some more experimenting last night. I turned everything up to max (except AA and Antisoptric), and didn't take much of a hit in framerate. In Silvermoon City I was getting 40-70fps.

I give the 8600gt M a thumbs up :)

[mikesjo]

tiberium wars

128 meg video card version


i get about 20 fps with everything on high, but no AA.

perfectly playable.


oblivion

max settings mostly, 1440x900, HDR, no AA

i get about 15-25 outside, city - i can't remember exactly but 50+ i think.


What's your FPS in C&C if you're on low settings? I'm currently playing this game on my 64MB Radeon! lol.

[Freyqq]

What's your FPS in C&C if you're on low settings? I'm currently playing this game on my 64MB Radeon! lol.

i never tried lol. Ultra high is to pretty =P. If ultra high is playable, probably a whole lot =P

yeah..prior to getting this i was on a pc desktop with a 9600xt radeon and 2.4 ghz p4 running on lowest settings, barely

[JFreak]

SHKSPR WUD TRN IN IS GRV

You made my day :)

[senc01a]

My only complaint is that the fans get extremely noisy when playing, but that's okay because I usually have my music cranked during WoW sessions :p

What do you exactly mean by extremely noisi?

[mikesjo]

i never tried lol. Ultra high is to pretty =P. If ultra high is playable, probably a whole lot =P

yeah..prior to getting this i was on a pc desktop with a 9600xt radeon and 2.4 ghz p4 running on lowest settings, barely

Great, can't wait to get the mbp and play C&C on it!

[senc01a]

First of all I want to please ask you to spot using this thread to speak about other games/systems. This thread is about Wow on the New MBP Santa rosa that came out in June 2007.

I finally got mine so here you have my answers:

1. How many FPS do you get while playing it on either of the models, 128ddr, 256ddr? This question should be answered considering:
Different graphics mode. Solo playing in Outland, Party on a dungeon, Raiding 25 or 40 man.

128ddr model:
High detaills everything.
Cities: Shattrath 20-30 fps.
Hellfire Peninsula : 30-50 fps
Stormwind: 60-100 fps
Party dungeon: Shadow lab: 40-60 fps
Raid: Serpentshire cavern i get 15-25 fps but if I lower the graphics a little (not too much although) it goes back to 30 fps.


2. Have any of you been able to play in on Windows XP or Vista with Boot camp using any kind of official or non official drivers?
Havn't yet. Im not sure if I will since it runs pretty well on OSX.

3. How much compromised is performanced while playing listeing to music with Itunes and using Ventrilo or Teamspeak.
Not too much. Maploads and etc seem the same speed. FPS don't seem to be compromised.
I haven't.

4. Heat questions such as fan noise while playing for more than one or two hours. Temperature on different parts of the MBP such as keyboard, bottom side, etc.

It doesnt get as hot as I expected it. The funs turn up and the computer itselfs heats up a little but not too much and even at full speed fans are still pretty silent. (I've tried many many other laptops and they all get much hotter). This is probably thanks to the awesome aluminuium design.
Right side of the keyboard heats up more than the left side.
Botton is very hot.

5. Difference on heat & performance while playing on windows and OSX.
Can't tell.

6. FPS using a full UI with all the raiding addons such as ORA2, Swstats, Sraidframes, etc.
Pretty much the same. Maybe 2-3 fps less and 1.3x slower map loading (same as windows i guess).

7. Batterly life while playing it unpluged.
Don't know. Probably 1.5 hours full performance.

8. Ping, heat, lifetime battery and performance differences while playing with Ethernet or Wireless adapter.
Pretty much the same but I could really tell.


I hope that this was usefull for someone.

Conclusions: Wow is definitly VERY PLAYABLE and smooth on the basic model of the new MBP (santa rosa, june 2007). It probably runs better on windows specially if you can figure out how to make the 8600 work in XP. Wow on Vista usually runs at about 70&#37; of the FPS that runs on XP same machine.

I hope that the Ventrilo team came up SOON with a new version with PCM codec support.

[woozy]

anyone getting stutters with this? I just tried it on the new 2.4 mbp, even tho the framerates are quite high 30-60+, its not very smooth at all. Im running the at native res with most option on high, aa/af and bloom off.

[senc01a]

anyone getting stutters with this? I just tried it on the new 2.4 mbp, even tho the framerates are quite high 30-60+, its not very smooth at all. Im running the at native res with most option on high, aa/af and bloom off.

ACtually i did have like small stops or cuts (i guess that stutter is the term). I formated and reinstalled OSX (since I don't want all of the printer drivers and language support). After that, I started playing some with the graphical settings.
Right now I'm playing it at 1400x900 with most of the detail settings on HIGH and it runs pretty smooth.

[senc01a]

Guess what. I still have those small micro cuts and they are definitly a PAIN in the a**.

I decided to install Windows Xp and I'm currently playing on Windows XP boot camp 1.3 with regular boot camp drivers.

It just works PERFECT. Smooth as butter. Just like in my Big PC.


30 - 60 fps with full graphics. Very very smooth.

[jordan.hogan]

Mine has some of the same issues (the 128ddr model), which look like an Nvidia graphics driver issue in OSX to me.

I have also noticed that if I turn on Anti-Aliasing in WoW it incurs a massive performance hit (from 30 - 40 fps down to 10 - 12 fps) which should not happen with such a high end Nvidia chipset.

I guess that I will just have to wait and see; these issues tend to get ironed out with device driver updates. I am also going to try installing WoW in Windows XP using boot camp and see if the same problem occurs.

[djinn]

Mine has some of the same issues (the 128ddr model), which look like an Nvidia graphics driver issue in OSX to me.

I have also noticed that if I turn on Anti-Aliasing in WoW it incurs a massive performance hit (from 30 - 40 fps down to 10 - 12 fps) which should not happen with such a high end Nvidia chipset.

I guess that I will just have to wait and see; these issues tend to get ironed out with device driver updates. I am also going to try installing WoW in Windows XP using boot camp and see if the same problem occurs.

Thats what I'm curious about.. What is the performance like in bootcamp 1.3 XP with WOW. Anyone?

[odinsride]

Thats what I'm curious about.. What is the performance like in bootcamp 1.3 XP with WOW. Anyone?

It runs extremely well in XP. I turned all of my graphics settings up, including AA, and put AF in the middle, and still get 50-80fps depending on where I am.

In OSX i keep AA and AF down and get 30-60fps...which is good enough for me, and more convenient than switching to XP.

But it's definitely unfortunate that it runs so much better in Windows :/

[jordan.hogan]

Well in this case I would say that Apple did a below average job on the device drivers for the 8600. Since Boot Camp most likely uses Nvidia’s Windows driver it would not suffer from this problem.

The good news though is that in my experience manufactures (Apple in this case) tend to release new device drivers that correct these issues in a timely fashion.

[miniConvert]

I've just played for several hours on mine and, crikey, I'm warm now! :D The MBP has cooled itself right back down since I logged out, though, surprisingly quickly.

I play under OS X and the experience really is very good. I can second that 30-60fps number, haven't seen it go below 30fps yet. I get juddering when I first log in for a bit, probably due to the 5400rpm hdd (?), but once i'm going it's smooth and enjoyable. Doing underwater stuff with the trackpad was, erm, interesting, but other than that it was excellent :D As these machines are so new I'm hoping software updates will only make things even better in the future :)

[BenzDealer]

Im getting my MBP SR next week on thurday i think, but unlike you guys i quit WoW. I think now im going to have to reinstall and start all over again.. horray.

[djinn]

For the SR MBP, what are the normal FPS with what settings? Just curious if the new MBP blow my MBP out of the water with game performance.

[jordan.hogan]

Here is what I found...

Testing System:
Machine: Apple MacBook Pro
OS: OS X (10.4.10) / Windows XP Pro SP 2 (Boot Camp 1.3 Beta)
CPU: 2.2 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo (Santa Rosa June 2007)
Memory: 2 GB 667 Mhz DD2 SDRAM
HDD: 160 GB (123 GB MacFS / 25.72 GB FAT32)
Video: Nvidia GeForce 8600M GT 128 MB

Game Settings:
Screen Resolution: 1440x900 Full Screen
Color Depth: 24-bit
Shedders: All on
Trilinear Filtering: On
World Appearance: All possible settings set to high

Test Description:
Basically I installed WoW on both the OS X partition and the Windows partition and recorded the average frame rate in the same area in both operating systems. Please note that the frames per second (FPS) recorded here are not exact. I basically wrote down the number that I saw occur the most often while watching the game run.

The Results:
Area: Stormwind in the middle of the Trade District between Justine Demalier (NPC) and Melris Malagan (NPC).
Apple OS X:
AA 1x = 50 – 60 FPS
AA 2x = 20 – 25 FPS
AA 4x = 19 – 22 FPS
Microsoft Windows XP Pro:
AA 1x = 58 – 60 FPS
AA 2x = 49 – 52 FPS
AA 4x = 43 – 45 FPS

Area: Just outside the front gates into Stormwind looking out into the forest.
Apple OS X:
AA 1x = 38 – 40 FPS
AA 2x = 10 – 20 FPS
AA 4x = 10 – 15 FPS
Microsoft Windows XP Pro:
AA 1x = 59 – 60 FPS
AA 2x = 50 – 51 FPS
AA 4x = 32 – 33 FPS

Notes:
As you can see from the numbers above, WoW runs a lot faster in Windows using Boot Camp. This is most likely because of a driver issue in OS X (Boot Camp is using Nvidia's 6.14.11.134 driver). Hopefully Apple will have this cleared up soon since, as you can see, the hardware in the MacBook Pro is capable of much faster speeds then it is showing in OS X.

The score on the last test is also interesting. OS X didn’t show much of a performance change between 2x and 4x AA where as in Windows there was a rather large drop. Windows still managed to score almost twice as fast, but the lack of a change in OS X makes me think that changing the setting did not actually cause a change in the image being rendered.

Another interesting point to note is that WoW actually made available 8x AA when running in Windows under Boot Camp. This rendering option was not available in OS X.

I also noticed that when you have AA on when running WoW in OS X it will sometimes render artifacts (areas of the screen that turn into garbled colors). The higher you set the AA the more often these artifacts would appear.

[Erasmus]

Here is what I found...

That's cool! Well done!
Now, anyone with a 2.4 SR MBP wanna do the same? ;)

Well, that gives a lot of hope that the newest of new games will run. True, WOW doesn't have that high system reqs, but when you can play with 30+ frame rates with absolutely everything on fullest of full, hope is given.

[Lord Blackadder]

It's a shame about the inferior driver situation.

I have to say though, I excpected the 8600M GT to show a little more improvement over the X1600 than it does - this isn't to say I'm not happy with it though. Best card for mobile gaming on the Mac since the first appearance of the Mobility 9700 in the PowerBook. Hopefully Apple will assess real-world gaming performance of the card versus Windows and adjust the drivers to improve performance...

I'm praying that we get both the latest GeForce 8 and Radeon HD 2900 cards when the Mac Pro's next update rolls around...Please, Apple! It is exactly one year till my next purchase, and it will be a loaded Mac Pro. Good job so far, but keep it up!

[jordan.hogan]

WoW actually is not a very good application for performance testing; the image being displayed tends to change very often as new players come into view. Does anyone know of a 3D benchmarking tool that runs on Windows and OS X?

[djinn]

A real interesting test would be in the Outlands. Supposedly there are more polygon counts and the texture is more detailed.

[katorga]

WoW actually is not a very good application for performance testing;

It is perfect because this thread is about WoW performance. Realworld numbers in this case are much better than synthetic numbers.

[jordan.hogan]

It is perfect because this thread is about WoW performance. Realworld numbers in this case are much better than synthetic numbers.

Very true. :)

[senc01a]

First of all you are missunderstanding something about the performance.

Its not about the driver, its about the API blizzard used.

The driver that OSX has for the NVIDIA is far good enough.
As you have probably seen, performance in native OPENGL code runs pretty much as smooth in windows as in OSX or Linux.
Check out Doom3 or Quake4 for example.

World of Warcraft was programmed natively for DirectX, the microsoft implementation of 3D api used for most of windows games.

Blizzard has ported the 3d engine from directx to opengl. They have done a nice job, and in the last updates they have optimized it alot, but its still a blizzard issue.
So let's just hope that blizzard works a little bit more in that stuff and hopefully we will have a Wow with similar performance in windows and osx.

[jordan.hogan]

World of Warcraft was programmed natively for DirectX, the microsoft implementation of 3D api used for most of windows games.

You make a good point, although I don't think that World of Warcraft was initially developed for DirectX and then ported to OpenGL. Blizzard tends to develop the two platforms at the same time which allows them to ship hybrid disks that work on both platforms. But that is beside the point, it is very possible that Blizzard has some issues on the 8600M with their OpenGL API. When I get home from work tonight I will force WoW to run in Windows using OpenGL (http://www.blizzard.com/support/wow/?id=aww0793p2) and run my test again.

[jordan.hogan]

The Results:
Area: Stormwind in the middle of the Trade District between Justine Demalier (NPC) and Melris Malagan (NPC).
Apple OS X (OpenGL):
AA 1x = 50 – 60 FPS
AA 2x = 20 – 25 FPS
AA 4x = 19 – 22 FPS
Microsoft Windows XP Pro (Direct3D):
AA 1x = 58 – 60 FPS
AA 2x = 49 – 52 FPS
AA 4x = 43 – 45 FPS
Microsoft Windows XP Pro (OpenGL):
AA 1x = 38 - 40 FPS
AA 2x = 36 - 40 FPS
AA 4x = 10 - 11 FPS

Area: Just outside the front gates into Stormwind looking out into the forest.
Apple OS X (OpenGL):
AA 1x = 38 – 40 FPS
AA 2x = 10 – 20 FPS
AA 4x = 10 – 15 FPS
Microsoft Windows XP Pro (Direct3D):
AA 1x = 59 – 60 FPS
AA 2x = 50 – 51 FPS
AA 4x = 32 – 33 FPS
Microsoft Windows XP Pro (OpenGL):
AA 1x = 54 - 56 FPS
AA 2x = 29 - 30 FPS
AA 4x = 28 - 30 FPS

Running WoW in Windows using OpenGL seems to be have produced results closer to the ones I have seen running the game in OSX. In some cases OSX was actually faster then Windows when running in OpenGL. In other cases it was not, keep in mind though that the load on the WoW server is different today then it was when I last ran this test. So the results are likely not as even as they should be. But just comparing how WoW runs in Windows between OpenGL and Direct3D shows that the game definitely runs faster under Direct3D then it does under OpenGL.

Thanks to senc01a for pointing out that the default rendering engine for WoW in Windows is Direct3D. :)

[grossimassi]

Got a brand new MacBook Pro 2,4Ghz, 2Gb ram with GeForce 8600M GT 256MB.
World of Warcraft is a pain to play T_T
Tried to start from full details to low details... the game of course runs better but still jerks too much.
I put GLFaster "2" into the Config.wtf file as suggested by Blizzard, but the perfomance is crappy anyway.
Moreover... where is the antialiasing effect?
If u want I can post some screenshot to explain my feeling...

[digitaldave]

I've been playing WoW on a 15.4" 2.4GHz MBP for a few brief periods, and so far I'm very impressed. One thing I have done is to make use of the maxfps attribute. I've set it to 30 (with everything set high, full screen glow off, no AA or AF), as that gives perfectly smooth play, but it's not wasting resources by rendering faster than that. The upside of this is that everything runs much cooler, and the fans don't run anywhere nearly as loudly, plus I still get great looking graphics :).

[grossimassi]

As u told me i put maxfps = 30
What do u mean with AA and AF ?
And... what kind of multisampling are u using? 24-24-1x ?
With max 30 fps and all details to high it doesnt work very nice...
Can u please copy and paste your Config.wtf ( inside \warcraft\WTF folder )
We have the same machine, it has to work!
Thanks a lot mate, I wait your reply.

[digitaldave]

As u told me i put maxfps = 30
What do u mean with AA and AF ?
And... what kind of multisampling are u using? 24-24-1x ?
With max 30 fps and all details to high it doesnt work very nice...
Can u please copy and paste your Config.wtf ( inside \warcraft\WTF folder )
We have the same machine, it has to work!
Thanks a lot mate, I wait your reply.

AA= anti-aliasing, what WoW call multisampling :). I generally run at x1 (i.e. none), but I'm considering tuning it to x2 now I've capped the FPS.

Not sure what you mean by "With max 30 fps and all details to high it doesnt work very nice..." - works beautifully on my machine.

Here are the relevant parts of my config file:

SET gxColorBits "24"
SET gxDepthBits "24"
SET gxResolution "1440x900"
SET gxRefresh "60"
SET hwDetect "0"
SET fullAlpha "1"
SET doodadAnim "0"
SET lodDist "80.000000"
SET SmallCull "0.010000"
SET DistCull "350.000000"
SET frillDensity "48"
SET farclip "777"
SET particleDensity "0.300000"
SET gxMultisampleQuality "0.000000"
SET shadowLevel "0"
SET pixelShaders "1"
SET mouseSpeed "1.4500000476837"
SET Gamma "1.000000"
SET profanityFilter "0"
SET weatherDensity "3"
SET ffxGlow "0"
SET ffxDeath "0"
SET cameraYawMoveSpeed "180"
SET cameraYawSmoothSpeed "180"
SET cameraDistanceMaxFactor "1"
SET gameTip "75"
SET uiScale "1"
SET ShowTargetCastbar "1"
SET guildMemberNotify "1"
SET gxVSync "0"
SET MusicVolume "0.40000000596046"
SET SoundVolume "1"
SET MasterVolume "1"
SET AmbienceVolume "0.60000002384186"
SET minimapInsideZoom "0"
SET autoSelfCast "1"
SET checkAddonVersion "0"
SET minimapZoom "0"
SET showToolsUI "0"
SET specular "1"
SET EnableMusic "0"
SET preferredFullscreenMode "1"
SET M2UsePixelShaders "1"
SET MaxFPS "30"


Hope that helps :).

[jordan.hogan]

I am running WoW at the same settings as digitaldave and am getting acceptable performance. The game is more then playable which is all one really needs for an RPG.

[grossimassi]

Dunno what was the problem... I just copied and pasted your config file, and now the game just runs better.
I only added SET GLFaster "2" to your config.
I also tried to put multisampling 2x but this time game performance decreases.
Anyway thanks!
Im getting Leopard these days, I wanna check what they did with OpenGL.

[digitaldave]

Dunno what was the problem... I just copied and pasted your config file, and now the game just runs better.
I only added SET GLFaster "2" to your config.
I also tried to put multisampling 2x but this time game performance decreases.
Anyway thanks!
Im getting Leopard these days, I wanna check what they did with OpenGL.

Glad to hear it helped :). How does it run with GLFaster=2? I haven't bothered with it because apparently it's still experimental, but if it makes some noticeable difference, I might try it out.

Dave.

[grossimassi]

Check here: http://www.wowwiki.com/Mac

Image and Video section.

[grossimassi]

tried 25 men instance... impossible to play...
OMF OMG im desperate!!!!
I had to put all details to min and still have problem to play... around 2-3 FPS
I have problems even moving mouse...
I really dunno what to do...
What to u suggest me?

[grossimassi]

could the load of MODs installed slow me?
im using only ace2 mods... and im minding this could be the problem.
what do u think?

[grossimassi]

Update:

Tried to play with no mod active... nothing changes.
I put maxfps = 30... if i dont move i reach this fps... but once i move or i change camera my fps fall to 6-7
Once I stop I get again 30 fps
Tried also to delete WTF and WDB folders like every GM tell u once u contact him... nothing happens.
I really dunno what to do!
It seems im the only one with these problems.
Im starting to mind its something with my MAC.
Dunno if I should have to call apple.
Do u know if there is any tool to check my 3D card?

[jordan.hogan]

Check and make sure that you have all the latest updates for OSX installed. You can check this by clicking the Apple in the top left hand corner of the desktop and clicking Software Update. Maybe you are missing some updates that the rest of us downloaded.

[grossimassi]

Full Updated... I tried 1 min ago too...

MAC OSX 10.4.10

[rbarris]

Can you send me some screenshots of the affected area, and a copy of the config.wtf file you are running ?

wowmacteam123@blizzard.com

[digitaldave]

Full Updated... I tried 1 min ago too...

MAC OSX 10.4.10

Apple released an update specifically for the new MBPs last night. Although they don't say exactly what is fixed, the suspicion is that it's something to do with graphics drivers. I just installed it, and it's totally got rid of the stuttering I used to get when turning on the spot :).

[grossimassi]

It works perfect now!!!!!!
Full details, multisampling 2x and i have 20fps constant!!!
Good job Apple!

[digitaldave]

It works perfect now!!!!!!
Full details, multisampling 2x and i have 20fps constant!!!
Good job Apple!

:)

[ShStylo]

Apple released an update specifically for the new MBPs last night. Although they don't say exactly what is fixed, the suspicion is that it's something to do with graphics drivers. I just installed it, and it's totally got rid of the stuttering I used to get when turning on the spot :).

I also suffer from that stutter from turning on the spot! Cant wait to get home and try this update out! I just got to 70 and will be running some CRAZY instances w00t..

btw on a side note did anyone install that SuperDrive update? know what that one's about?

[jmilliron]

The update increased my performance a bit but it's still less then half what I get in Boot Camp/WinXP and not really viable for raiding.

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/demandred/mbp8.jpg

[rbarris]

The update increased my performance a bit but it's still less then half what I get in Boot Camp/WinXP and not really viable for raiding.

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/demandred/mbp8.jpg

Would you mind posting the text of the config.wtf you currently use on each OS ? (Don't forget to edit out your account name)

I'd like to take a closer look at this.

[jmilliron]

Will do, once I'm done raiding. Here are some screenshots in WinXP for now:

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/demandred/WoWScrnShot_070107_162033.jpg

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/demandred/WoWScrnShot_070107_163256.jpg

FPS is in upper left. It will sometimes drop down to 15fps during intense encounters but the only way I noticed was because I was watching the counter. No pauses or anything like that in WinXP. I really wish OS X played half this way.

btw; My OS X install was fresh from CD while I copied my ancient Win XP install over from my workstation.

[rbarris]

For best speed on the OS X client I would try disabling full screen glow, and vsync. Improving the speed of FSG is something we expect to be easier under Leopard.

[jmilliron]

Turning off shaders, vsync, 2x samp -> 1x samp, and moving AF to the 0 seems to bring the FPS up to where it is in Boot Camp. I'll have to install all my mods to make sure it holds up in a raid though.

Thanks, will keep you guys posted.

[Demon Hunter]

The 8600M GT is ****ing amazing. I can't believe how powerful this GPU is. I can actually turn on Full Screen Glow, Anisotropic Filtering, Trilinear Filtering, etc. and I still get very high /fps.

I'm so happy I could cry!

[jmilliron]

In what OS?

[BrianKonarsMac]

tried 25 men instance... impossible to play...
OMF OMG im desperate!!!!
I had to put all details to min and still have problem to play... around 2-3 FPS
I have problems even moving mouse...
I really dunno what to do...
What to u suggest me?
there is no way that my 1.33 ghz 12" PBG4 is beating your laptops performance, maybe look at your settings again? Make sure the draw distance isn't too far.

[ShStylo]

Will do, once I'm done raiding. Here are some screenshots in WinXP for now:

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/demandred/WoWScrnShot_070107_162033.jpg

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/demandred/WoWScrnShot_070107_163256.jpg

FPS is in upper left. It will sometimes drop down to 15fps during intense encounters but the only way I noticed was because I was watching the counter. No pauses or anything like that in WinXP. I really wish OS X played half this way.

btw; My OS X install was fresh from CD while I copied my ancient Win XP install over from my workstation.

Hey Jmilliron, can you post up the list of mods you are using if you don't mind?

I can see that you are using Grid but whats that big bar at the bottom with everything encapsulated called? and the name of the mod thats producing all those words on the screen as well? Thanks! :D

[jmilliron]

MikScrollingBattleText. Skinner or Aperture for the bar at the bottom. Pitbull for the unit frames and Quartz for the casting bar.

Plus around a billion others. :)

[ShStylo]

MikScrollingBattleText. Skinner or Aperture for the bar at the bottom. Pitbull for the unit frames and Quartz for the casting bar.

Plus around a billion others. :)

Thanks alot :D props to your UI it looks sick.

[cluthz]

Anyone got some new numbers after latest apple patch, which should contain new nvidia drivers?

Still waiting for my new SR, but kinda worried when i see the numbers aren't that very much better than i have on my PB12" (1,5ghz last gen)

[brutusvimes]

Bump! I would like to know this as well. It's a shame the drivers are so crappy because the 8600M GT should eat WoW for breakfast. I hope Apple gets on it quickly, as it's certainly a very popular game.

[grossimassi]

Do u think we have to wait new driver from Apple or just a patch from Blizzard?
I really dont know what is the problem, but I just feel the game can run better than now.
Looking around Blizzard's forum there is no rumors about our new MBP.
The game is playable ofc, but it's a shame we can't use the super video card's power!

[Skuta]

Bump! I would like to know this as well. It's a shame the drivers are so crappy because the 8600M GT should eat WoW for breakfast. I hope Apple gets on it quickly, as it's certainly a very popular game.

I haven't read through the whole thread but lemme know if I understand this correctly:

The problem with bad nVidia drivers is only mac OS X related and that is why WoW runs slower in OS X than in Win XP while using Boot Camp. WoW runs pretty much flawlessly in Win XP (with boot camp).

This true?

[grossimassi]

Yes... it's true, under bootcamp it works much better.
I don't wanna give up and play from Winzoz partition... once u try OSX there is no way back!

[Block]

Would it be better to install WoW on my OSX partition or my Windows partition?

[bobber205]

There is no "better" option. If the drivers have been fixed, then do it on OS X. If not, do XP. On my macbook, once the multi-core/threaded OpenGL fix came along, I got much better FPS under OS X then in XP.

[cluthz]

Anyone got some new numbers after latest apple patch, which should contain new nvidia drivers?

Still waiting for my new SR, but kinda worried when i see the numbers aren't that very much better than i have on my PB12" (1,5ghz last gen)

I've had my SR MBP for a few days and it's really good!
Almost everything is maxed (except anis and aa and ofc no fullscreen glow)
and i have 30-40 fps in shattrah, 60+ in IF.

I did 3v3 arenas yesterday with IshowU (fraps alike app) fullscreen "Apple intermediate codec" and i was over 25 fps all the time!

Prolly doin' SSC tonight and i'll post some numbers from there aswell!

Tbh, I dunno how so many have reported crappy performance on theirs MPB-SRs, but mine is atleast very snappy.
Could it be the 1.4.10 patch and MPB update?

Btw, i'm running on a external screen 1280*1024 res

[rbarris]

I've had my SR MBP for a few days and it's really good!
Almost everything is maxed (except anis and aa and ofc no fullscreen glow)
and i have 30-40 fps in shattrah, 60+ in IF.

I did 3v3 arenas yesterday with IshowU (fraps alike app) fullscreen "Apple intermediate codec" and i was over 25 fps all the time!

Prolly doin' SSC tonight and i'll post some numbers from there aswell!

Tbh, I dunno how so many have reported crappy performance on theirs MPB-SRs, but mine is atleast very snappy.
Could it be the 1.4.10 patch and MPB update?

Btw, i'm running on a external screen 1280*1024 res


If you are interested in capturing WoW movies on OS X, you should check out the public beta of WoW 2.2.0 - we have integrated video capture in the client now. On a fast dual core machine it can capture quite nicely and with low impact on your gameplay. It is definitely beta - some bugs - but we're looking for as much feedback as we can get on it.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/ptr/
(test realm setup)

https://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.html?sid=1&forumId=11572
(test realm forum)

https://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=174687448&sid=1
(movie recording thread)

[Donnie Blaze]

Hey you guys seem to know a ton about this video card. I'm having issues with it when running a video dj program called vdj. I think the problems may be driver related. While I'm sure most of you guys may not know vdj is I'm wondering if you can help me.

Are there any other drivers I can use for this card? When I'm in windows I go to nvidias website and look up the 8 series card drivers and it takes me to a forceware release 158.22. When I download and try to install this driver it says it's not compatible with my hardware and then it says setup will now exit.

Any thoughts?

[angelneo]

Hey you guys seem to know a ton about this video card. I'm having issues with it when running a video dj program called vdj. I think the problems may be driver related. While I'm sure most of you guys may not know vdj is I'm wondering if you can help me.

Are there any other drivers I can use for this card? When I'm in windows I go to nvidias website and look up the 8 series card drivers and it takes me to a forceware release 158.22. When I download and try to install this driver it says it's not compatible with my hardware and then it says setup will now exit.

Any thoughts?Are you talking about the drivers and that software, not with WoW? If it is, I think you should open a new thread in the Mac Basics and Help section. You will get better responds over there.

[Eidorian]

Hey you guys seem to know a ton about this video card. I'm having issues with it when running a video dj program called vdj. I think the problems may be driver related. While I'm sure most of you guys may not know vdj is I'm wondering if you can help me.

Are there any other drivers I can use for this card? When I'm in windows I go to nvidias website and look up the 8 series card drivers and it takes me to a forceware release 158.22. When I download and try to install this driver it says it's not compatible with my hardware and then it says setup will now exit.

Any thoughts?nVidia doesn't offer 8 Series drivers for the M line of cards. I suggest going to LaptopVideo2Go (http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/) if you want the latest drivers. You're more then likely going to have to use the modified INF as well.

[Irishman]

Don't confuse the 8600 GT with the 8600M GT. If you are looking at benchmarks of the former regarding the Macbook Pro, you will be disappointed with the actual results. The 8600M GT is a bit faster than the go 7600 GT although it has DX10 whereas the 7600 does not.

DX10 only works in Vista, keep in mind.

[FluJunkie]

On my new SR MBP, the "high end" stock 15" model:

1. How many FPS do you get while playing it on either of the models, 128ddr, 256ddr? This question should be answered considering:
Different graphics mode. Solo playing in Outland, Party on a dungeon, Raiding 25 or 40 man.

Not sure what 128 or 256 ddr means. My settings are usually very high graphically, and I range between about 75 fps (hanging out in Stormwind) to about 30 fps (Serpent Shrine Cavern)

2. Have any of you been able to play in on Windows XP or Vista with Boot camp using any kind of official or non official drivers?

I prefer my Mac, so haven't tried.

3. How much compromised is performanced while playing listeing to music with Itunes and using Ventrilo or Teamspeak.

None for Ventrilo. iTunes has some small performance decrease, but unless I'm raiding, its not noticeable.

4. Heat questions such as fan noise while playing for more than one or two hours. Temperature on different parts of the MBP such as keyboard, bottom side, etc.

No noted problems.

5. Difference on heat & performance while playing on windows and OSX.

Don't use Windows.

6. FPS using a full UI with all the raiding addons such as ORA2, Swstats, Sraidframes, etc.

The FPS listed above is with a full UI. Serpent Shrine is a very graphics intensive instance (the old PBG4 ran at <5 fps most times). So I'm getting ~30 fps with ORA2, SWStats, SRaidframes, Omen, Deadly Boss Mods, Vent open and...oh, did I mention all of this was windowed so I could be looking at WoWwiki at the same time?

7. Batterly life while playing it unpluged.

I play at home with my headset, comfy chair and iced chai.

8. Ping, heat, lifetime battery and performance differences while playing with Ethernet or Wireless adapter.

No noticeable difference over an 802.11g network.

I should not that I've been nothing but happy with the new computer. It's buttery smooth, the game is *beautiful*, and it's like playing a different game. In a Serpent Shrine raid, I was 3rd on the DPS meters (behind two Warlocks). This is a big deal for a feral Druid! It was almost entirely an issue of frame rate, seeing what was happening and being able to maneuver.

[CJM]

If you are interested in capturing WoW movies on OS X, you should check out the public beta of WoW 2.2.0 - we have integrated video capture in the client now. On a fast dual core machine it can capture quite nicely and with low impact on your gameplay. It is definitely beta - some bugs - but we're looking for as much feedback as we can get on it.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/ptr/
(test realm setup)

https://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.html?sid=1&forumId=11572
(test realm forum)

https://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=174687448&sid=1
(movie recording thread)

Ooh, can you tell them to give pre-mades, too ;P Testing out new classes was a great feature of the PTRs (admittedly, the constant duels outside towns weren't...)

But yes, I do love the new features you've implemented, it's nice to have some special features that the PC client doesn't get ^^

[senc01a]

After playing it more intensively id like to tell you:

Wow does run much faster (fps terms) in WinXP than in OSX but it runs smoothier in WinXP. Ill explain myself. When I'm raiding in SSC or The Eye in Windows every 5 to 10 secs I get some kind of freeze, its like 0.25 secs freeze but its a pain in the ass. In OSX fps are lower but that doesn't happen.
Another funny thing is that if I play in OSX I get from 50-150 ms of ping and in windows i get like 150-300 ms and when I'm in a Boss Combat like Lady Vashj or somesthing like that ping can go up to 500-15000 ms. That doesn't happen in OSX (using same DSL or Cable modem etc).

OSX also makes the laptop stay a bit cooler even though it gets as hot as hell!

[killmoms]

DX10 only works in Vista, keep in mind.

Okay, this sort of misleading terminology NEEDS to stop. The only thing DirectX 10 about the 8000-series GPUs is that they have an integrated shader model, which is a minimum specification of DX10. The graphics made possible by that hardware are provided for in DX10, but are just as possible to create in OpenGL if the hardware is capable.

[noodle654]

I don't play anymore but my iBook with only ATI Radeon 9550 32MB worked with no problems. The graphics were actually very very good and I was very suprised. So I will say this, if my iBook that came out 3 years ago can handle WOW, then a brand new MacBook Pro will have no problems.:D

[cluthz]

I don't play anymore but my iBook with only ATI Radeon 9550 32MB worked with no problems. The graphics were actually very very good and I was very suprised. So I will say this, if my iBook that came out 3 years ago can handle WOW, then a brand new MacBook Pro will have no problems.:D

You haven't tried raiding instances in BC :p
In SSC you would probaly have less than 4 FPS on that machine.

[Oberon]

Hi Guys, new to the forum.

I have a MacBook Pro 17" with all the googies on, 7,200rpm and so on, except the 4gb RAM, I kept it in 2gb. So, the problem is that when I play WoW though I have around 40 to 60 fps (110 in buildings) and no server lag, the experience in the whole is laggy. I've turned off AF, kept the settings to default but the problem seems to linger on. Anyone has a solution?

Thx

[rbarris]

Hi Guys, new to the forum.

I have a MacBook Pro 17" with all the googies on, 7,200rpm and so on, except the 4gb RAM, I kept it in 2gb. So, the problem is that when I play WoW though I have around 40 to 60 fps (110 in buildings) and no server lag, the experience in the whole is laggy. I've turned off AF, kept the settings to default but the problem seems to linger on. Anyone has a solution?

Thx

There is an anomaly in the MBP Update 1.1 OpenGL drivers which leads to an unsteadiness in the frame rate. Best thing to do until the drivers are updated is cap your frame rate which may improve smoothness:

/console maxfps 30

[Oberon]

Will Leopard offer a built in fix for this?

[senc01a]

Has anyone tried it under Leopard? I wonder whats the difference of speed between Tiger and Leopard. I haven't tried with any of the non-master-builds but Im really curious.

Hope to get some feedback before Leopard comes out.

Gl and have fun

PD: I now only play in OSX with 20-40 fps in raid encounters (Vashj, Kaelthas,etc etc) with many many addons and almost highest graphics

[senc01a]

Well I just tried in Leopard. It pretty much runs the same speed. If you turn off spaces it seems to be a little bit faster.
Waiting for your opinions ;)

[rbarris]

We'd love to get more Leopard performance reports, I'll just add my usual reminder that good perf reports include machine specs and a rough description of settings and scene.

[rbarris]

Please try out the new MBP Software Update, this issue on the MBP's with 8600M GPU should be resolved.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2720513968&sid=1

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/macbookprosoftwareupdate12.html

[Oberon]

Any news about what happened with WoW and Leopard? Is the issue resolved in 10.5 or do we have to wait for a MacBook Pro firmware update too?

[rbarris]

Any news about what happened with WoW and Leopard? Is the issue resolved in 10.5 or do we have to wait for a MacBook Pro firmware update too?

No, should be resolved in 10.5.0.

[vascott]

I have an 8600m GT and its a peice of ****. I really am not happy with it playing wow at full rez or even 1200x800 wide. Let me answer your questions though.

Hi. I've just ordered a new MBP SR nvidia 8600
128 ddr memory.
I've searched the forums very intensively and I havn't found a nice thread about Wow on the new macbooks.
I hope that any of you can answer the following questions.

1. How many FPS do you get while playing it on either of the models, 128ddr, 256ddr? This question should be answered considering:
Different graphics mode. Solo playing in Outland, Party on a dungeon, Raiding 25 or 40 man.

Running around the Barrens right now I am getting 20fps on average.

2. Have any of you been able to play in on Windows XP or Vista with Boot camp using any kind of official or non official drivers?

Have not tried xp on my mac. I gave up Windows when I came to mac. I think I might go back to XP

[/quote]3. How much compromised is performanced while playing listeing to music with Itunes and using Ventrilo or Teamspeak.[/quote]

Have not noticed that much really (using an external display for gaming and laptop display for everything else).

4. Heat questions such as fan noise while playing for more than one or two hours. Temperature on different parts of the MBP such as keyboard, bottom side, etc.

Fans are loud when they are playing wow. Mine max out at 6000rpm. I use the in board mic and everyone can hear them. Temps are hot. Burnable hot.

5. Difference on heat & performance while playing on windows and OSX.

I have not used a notebook for gaming before my MBP.

6. FPS using a full UI with all the raiding addons such as ORA2, Swstats, Sraidframes, etc.

Have not looked for fps while raiding.

7. Battery life while playing it unplugged.
About an hour.

8. Ping, heat, lifetime battery and performance differences while playing with Ethernet or Wireless adapter.

Please add up any other questions.

Thanks in advance and sorry for my spelling (I'm from Europe and english is not my "born language").[/QUOTE]

I am posting right now because I'm really getting annoyed with this. A mac tower with a better video card might make a difference. Would I buy a MBP again for other uses. Sure. Would I buy it again for gaming? I am on the line. I still use it and it works...but the video lag is a pain in the ass and sometimes drives me nuts.

Good luck.
:(

[rbarris]

Can you post what settings you are using, including glow, msaa, trilinear, and shader settings?

Also, are you running MBP Update 1.2 (it just came out this week).

In our internal testing we are getting much better than 20FPS in typical scenes on that machine.

[luffx]

WoW isn't a graphic intensive game. I've been running it for 2 years on a Powerbook w/ a 128MB graphics card @ 'medium' settings.

Able to raid AQ40, Kara, Mag, Gruul, with no problems. No lag in any cities.

Sorry, I never clocked my FPS.

[digitaldave]

There is an anomaly in the MBP Update 1.1 OpenGL drivers which leads to an unsteadiness in the frame rate. Best thing to do until the drivers are updated is cap your frame rate which may improve smoothness:

/console maxfps 30

I find it better to cap the fps anyway, as it makes the machine run much quieter, and 30 fps is perfectly smooth to me :). Anything more than 30 fps is wasted effort by the gpu, at least to my eyes :).

edit - the 1.2 update solved the jerkiness issue for me. Now, if only I could get a few more fps in some areas of Outland...

[cluthz]

Please try out the new MBP Software Update, this issue on the MBP's with 8600M GPU should be resolved.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=2720513968&sid=1

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/macbookprosoftwareupdate12.html

After applying this update my MBP SR is indeed performing better.
I've always ran with the maxfps 30 setting, because if i didnt, i would get some "hiccups" a few times every min.

Running the ingame videocapture was a pain before the patch, with lotsa hiccups, but it seems much smoother and i can fraps areans in 30 FPS now without compromise the playing.

Indeed a step forward performance wise, but WoW is still atleast 50% faster when i reboot into Win XP with bootcamp. Not that it really matter much since the MBP SR is staying above 30 FPS at all times in OSX with most settings on max, even in the 25 man raids.

And btw, thanks for keeping us informed here at all times!

[wodeh]

I have the luxury of being able to directly compare two 15", 128mb, 2gb RAM, 2.2Ghz MacBook Pros side by side in respect to WoW performance. One running Windows in BootCamp and one OSX Leopard.

I didn't waste much time getting BootCamp installed and have installed custom drivers, fan controllers and overclocked my GPU with Riva Tuner. My partner, on the other hand, was still insisting that WoW is fine under OSX but as of an hour or so ago it looks like I'll be setting up BootCamp again for her.

The difference is, quite literally, night and day- In Shattrath city she was getting stuttering and graphical lag on medium settings in OSX, in Windows I was able to jack everything up to max and comfortably enjoy 4xAnti-aliasing. Suffice to say; as she fought with minute long freezes and jacked her graphics detail ever lower to compensate the concept of BootCamp was sold to her pretty quickly.

Anyway, using BootCamp to get the best gaming performance out of your MacBook Pro is pretty much a no-brainer, and in some cases (Crysis, for example) Windows is your only choice. Crysis plays beautifully in BootCamp on medium/high settings albeit in a slightly lower-than-native resolution, but it's fun and tolerable.

If you can't be bothered to boot into XP for a quick blast of WoW, you can actually run WoW from your mounted FAT32 (No NTFS, sorry) BootCamp partition by copying over the OSX binary files. That's over 7gb worth of duplicated data saved. Also you can, of course, boot the BootCamp partition in Parallels for the odd non-gaming windows usage. It really does give the best of both worlds.

If you have a roomy 120gb+ hard disk in your MacBook Pro (you should do) then 20gb for Windows XP and World of Warcraft is an acceptable sacrifice- of course the next expansion might take up a spot of space, so going with 30gb is a good idea to save time reinstalling... looks like I might be treating myself to a copy of iPartition and crossing my fingers that it works if 20gb gets a little too cozy.

To jack your fans up to 6000rpm in Windows look for a little app called InputRemapper, it'll keep your machine from frying if you toast that GPU with some high-detail WoW goodness.

It's a shame to have to buy another OS and conduct a risky if easy install process and a lengthy re-install of World of Warcraft (copy it over from another machine if you have one, it saves hours) to get the most out of an old game that should run flawlessly on a MacBook Pro. I could whine and moan about Blizzard letting down Mac users with poorly ported code (WoW flips out if I use filtering in OSX, I get a screen filled with noise) but even releasing a game for OSX is a rare and commendable enough practice to let the performance issues fly.

I, too, got fairly exceptional performance in WoW from my 12" Powerbook but the MacBook Pro still puts it to shame. MacBook Pro- the best Windows laptop I've ever owned.

[rbarris]

There is a bug in 10.5.x that holds down frame rates a lot if you have full screen glow enabled in conjunction with antialiasing. We commonly get this feedback when users try to set everything to max and they run into this bug.

[killmoms]

Pro. I could whine and moan about Blizzard letting down Mac users with poorly ported code (WoW flips out if I use filtering in OSX, I get a screen filled with noise) but even releasing a game for OSX is a rare and commendable enough practice to let the performance issues fly.

Honestly, it's not a poorly ported game at all. It was designed from day one to be for both OSes, so... The main issue here is the miserable graphics drivers in OS X, which is a long-standing criticism. But the graphics card manufacturers just don't put the same kind of work into OS X drivers, for obvious reasons—there's way fewer people using it. By contrast, the Windows drivers get the crap tweaked out of them for maximum performance.

[senc01a]

I just hope that Apple, Nvidia, Blizzard or whoever fix the nvidia macbookpro leopard problem. Everything is choppy and wow and war3 have very poor graphic results.

[Alx9876]

**Tagged for later.