PDA

View Full Version : Is The Surge Over?




skunk
Jun 9, 2007, 10:08 AM
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article2636169.eceBush U-turn as 'surge' sceptic to oversee war

By David Usborne in New York
Published: 09 June 2007

The White House has sidelined the main proponent of "troop surge" in Iraq in what looks a tacit acceptance that, after several months, the much-vaunted strategy is not working.

Final responsibility for guiding President George Bush on conduct of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan has been shifted from his National Security adviser, Stephen Hadley, and handed instead to his new war tsar, Lt-Gen Douglas Lute, who has long voiced doubts about the surge.

In a Senate confirmation hearing into his appointment, General Lute revealed that from now on, Mr Hadley would guide the President on "matters outside Iraq and Afghanistan". But he added that Mr Hadley would be his "teammate" on Iraq.

Even so, the news that Mr Hadley has surrendered primacy on Iraq looked like a palace coup coming to light as President Bush was abroad at the G8 meeting, with Mr Hadley. More important are the implications for a possible change of tack on Iraq at the White House.

Among those expressing most surprise was the Democratic senator Jack Reed of Rhode Island. "Afghanistan, Iraq and, related to that, Iran are the most critical foreign policy problems we face, and the National Security adviser of the United States has taken his hands off that and given it to you?" he asked. "Then he should be fired. Frankly, if he's not capable of being the individual responsible for those duties and they pass it on to someone else, then why is he there?"

General Lute is well regarded in Washington, and is almost certain to be confirmed in his new post this month. But Democrats took the opportunity to suggest that the creation of his post four years into the conflict was a clear indication of how badly it was going.

When one senator specifically asked him if he would be taking exclusive responsibility for "that chunk of [Hadley's] portfolio" regarding both wars, he said: "I believe that's right. It does not exclude him from also advising, but the responsibilities for advising for Iraq and Afghanistan ... would be mine."

It is hard to think of any modern precedent for a sitting National Security adviser taking a back seat on what are surely the most urgent foreign policy challenges facing the country. There are no chapters in history books of Henry Kissinger taking a holiday from his part in the Vietnam War, for example.

"In my experience, the National Security adviser has always handled the president's priorities and deputies handled what was left," said P J Crowley, a former member of President Bill Clinton's National Security Council, told the Los Angeles Times. "It is an extra difficult job, but this does beg the question, 'What is more important on Steve Hadley's plate than Iraq and Afghanistan'?"

A spokesman for Mr Hadley said while General Lute would "report directly to the President" on Iraq and Afghanistan, he will also "work side by side with Steve Hadley and others at the National Security Council".

Any whiff of musical chairs at the White House always gets instant attention, but more significant is how General Lute's expanding presence influences strategy in Iraq.

At the hearing, the general agreed he had been among those voicing scepticism about the surge. He said he had expressed the view that "a military surge would likely have only temporary and localised effects", without significant parallel progress on ending the political divisions in Iraq.

But the general also offered a gloomy assessment of how far the Iraqi government was likely to get in meeting benchmarks set in Washington for political reconciliation in the country. "I have reservations about just how much leverage we can apply on a system that is not very capable right now," he said. "Where are we today? Not where any of us would like."Hmmm. That didn't last long, did it?



jelloshotsrule
Jun 9, 2007, 11:12 AM
uggh. let's get out of there already.

Queso
Jun 9, 2007, 11:16 AM
Did it not work? Now who possibly could have seen that coming? :rolleyes:

Dont Hurt Me
Jun 9, 2007, 11:35 AM
Draft dodgers Bush & Cheney have our troops as sitting targets for everyone to take shots at, Sunni,Shia,Al-queda,Iranians,insurgents, people just pissed at what we did to their country,etc etc. 12 dead today by another wacko willing to kill himself. Anyone get the feeling that we have morons running this war, or rather people who know nothing but the silver spoon in their mouths?

mactastic
Jun 11, 2007, 03:41 PM
It seems to have produced nothing more than a surge in both Iraqi and American deaths...

leekohler
Jun 11, 2007, 03:51 PM
Just send Swarmlord. He's all for the surge. He'll fix everything. He and Lieberman are going to fix Iran too. :)

Swarmlord
Jun 11, 2007, 04:34 PM
Just send Swarmlord. He's all for the surge. He'll fix everything. He and Lieberman are going to fix Iran too. :)

My solution for that region doesn't involve surging anything, but the time for using it has passed. Neither does it involve running away and leaving a half formed government to deal with the situation.

I know that there are those joking about Iran now, but the fact is that those in charge of both parties here are not going to allow Iran to run rampant over that region or threaten our allies or commerce with the region.

I did my part to prepare our military. Our commander in chief just won't use the weapons that I and thousands of other Americans designed and built.

Queso
Jun 11, 2007, 04:41 PM
I did my part to prepare our military. Our commander in chief just won't use the weapons that I and thousands of other Americans designed and built.
Empty the stockpiles so more purchases are required you mean? Not that you have a vested interest in that of course ;)

leekohler
Jun 11, 2007, 04:56 PM
My solution for that region doesn't involve surging anything, but the time for using it has passed. Neither does it involve running away and leaving a half formed government to deal with the situation.

I know that there are those joking about Iran now, but the fact is that those in charge of both parties here are not going to allow Iran to run rampant over that region or threaten our allies or commerce with the region.

I did my part to prepare our military. Our commander in chief just won't use the weapons that I and thousands of other Americans designed and built.

And what was your solution again? I'm waiting on pins and needles...

atszyman
Jun 11, 2007, 04:59 PM
And what was your solution again? I'm waiting on pins and needles...

My guess is nuking the entire region to a parking lot.

After all, India is going to be running short on parking after we outsource all the domestic jobs.

Swarmlord
Jun 11, 2007, 05:18 PM
My guess is nuking the entire region to a parking lot.

After all, India is going to be running short on parking after we outsource all the domestic jobs.

It doesn't take nukes to reduce an area down to a workable level.

adroit
Jun 11, 2007, 05:22 PM
It doesn't take nukes to reduce an area down to a workable level.

More and more it looks like the temperature of the average american heart is approaching absolute zero.

leekohler
Jun 11, 2007, 06:37 PM
More and more it looks like the temperature of the average american heart is approaching absolute zero.

I wouldn't call Swarmy average.

aquajet
Jun 11, 2007, 09:13 PM
More and more it looks like the temperature of the average american heart is approaching absolute zero.

Thank you for the gross generalization. Since you haven't been paying attention, let me inform you that about two thirds of americans want to leave, and roughly half wish Bush's term was over with.

leekohler
Jun 11, 2007, 09:19 PM
Thank you for the gross generalization. Since you haven't been paying attention, let me inform you that about two thirds of americans want to leave, and roughly half wish Bush's term was over with.

That's so true. Basically our country is being held captive by an egomaniac. We're doing our best to hold our noses til it's over. Let's hope we don't all suffocate before then.

Ugg
Jun 11, 2007, 09:33 PM
It doesn't take nukes to reduce an area down to a workable level.

Idiots maybe?

skunk
Jun 11, 2007, 09:50 PM
It doesn't take nukes to reduce an area down to a workable level.I don't think "workable" is what you mean. What the hell do you think gives you the right to destroy a country and reduce its inhabitants to subsistence level or less?

IJ Reilly
Jun 11, 2007, 10:29 PM
I don't think "workable" is what you mean.

Unworkable, perhaps. Ruined. Destitute. See: manageable.

Queso
Jun 12, 2007, 04:45 AM
I don't think "workable" is what you mean. What the hell do you think gives you the right to destroy a country and reduce its inhabitants to subsistence level or less?
By the sound of things, stock options :rolleyes:

skunk
Jun 12, 2007, 05:11 AM
Unworkable, perhaps. Ruined. Destitute. See: manageable.solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant, to put it another way.

Swarmlord
Jun 12, 2007, 09:32 AM
I don't think "workable" is what you mean. What the hell do you think gives you the right to destroy a country and reduce its inhabitants to subsistence level or less?

The same right that nations have had since the dawn of time to defend their way of life and eliminate threats. I would think all you secular humanists, aetheists and agnostics would be ok with that.

I think the world has suffered quite enough from thousands of years of Middle East conflict.

We had our chance after 9/11 and we ***** footed our way into the conflict. Therefore we'll have to repeat this cycle at least one more time until we get a leader with the stones to truly end it.

Queso
Jun 12, 2007, 09:40 AM
I think the world has suffered quite enough from thousands of years of Middle East conflict.
Are you now trying to say that war is confined to the Middle East? Or would you advocate the annihilation of Europe for the same reasons?

leekohler
Jun 12, 2007, 10:31 AM
The same right that nations have had since the dawn of time to defend their way of life and eliminate threats. I would think all you secular humanists, aetheists and agnostics would be ok with that.

I think the world has suffered quite enough from thousands of years of Middle East conflict.

We had our chance after 9/11 and we ***** footed our way into the conflict. Therefore we'll have to repeat this cycle at least one more time until we get a leader with the stones to truly end it.

Wow- sounds like genocide to me. By the way, you'll have to take Egypt out as well. As usual- everything is black and white with you.

skunk
Jun 12, 2007, 11:18 AM
The same right that nations have had since the dawn of time to defend their way of life and eliminate threats.1 You were not being threatened by Iraq in 2001
2 You are not being threatened by Iraq now
3 Your favoured strategy has destroyed two sovereign nations and caused over half a million deaths for no perceptible gain
4 Therefore, I would say that your idiotic, inhumane and bigoted idea of foreign policy is, and will continue to be, an abject failure
I think the world has suffered quite enough from thousands of years of Middle East conflictYour ignorance of history - or your wilful disregard of the facts - is astounding. How can you construct a credible policy, or even a worthwhile opinion, when you base it on complete fantasy?

zimv20
Jun 12, 2007, 11:20 AM
1 You were not being threatened by Iraq in 2001
2 You are not being threatened by Iraq now
3 Your favoured strategy has destroyed two sovereign nations and caused over half a million deaths for no perceptible gain
4 Therefore, I would say that your idiotic, inhumane and bigoted idea of foreign policy is an abject failure
Your ignorance of history - or your wilful disregard of the facts - is astounding. How can you construct a credible policy, or even a worthwhile opinion, when you base it on complete fantasy?

three doctors agree: my blood pressure decreased 25% when i put swarmlord on ignore. my teeth are whiter, too.

solvs
Jun 13, 2007, 03:17 AM
The same right that nations have had since the dawn of time to defend their way of life and eliminate threats.

Um, isn't that what the Iraqis are doing? They weren't responsible for 9/11, didn't have WMDs, but we attacked them anyway and dismantled their gov. Doesn't that make us the invaders and them just defending themselves? You do know that a very small amount (in the single digits) of the insurgents are foreign right? What do you want us to do? Destroy the whole mess we created with some bombs? And that would be better than leaving how?

How did aqua get banned, and yet you haven't yet? :confused: