Poll: How often do you use Terminal (or equivalent) in OS X? [Archive]

Mudbug

Jul 9, 2003, 11:48 PM

This is a feature of X that I so rarely use that it almost might as well not even be there for me. Haxies represent most of the delving into it so far...

HOWEVER...
If someone had a good suggestion as to how to learn to use a command-line interface that was worth my time to read through, I'm interested. I just don't want to buy a book full of info that I'll never use or understand. Explain to me the reasons for using command-line instead of a GUI version of something, then give me the advantages & disadvantages of both, then I'll think about learning. Then teach me in simple terms what I'm doing and how to do it.

Chealion

Jul 9, 2003, 11:53 PM

Unix for dummies.

Unix for Mac OS X Users.

Check your local library for books on Unix.

Both are great for an intro.

I use it daily, as sometimes, theres no GUI that can beat raw text scrolling across your screen as you wield your sudo powers.

scem0

Jul 9, 2003, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by Chealion
Unix for dummies.

Unix for Mac OS X Users.

Mac OS X users = dummies?

Did you mean to say that?

Am I the only one who is confused?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

scem0

arn

Jul 9, 2003, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by scem0
Mac OS X users = dummies?

Did you mean to say that?

Am I the only one who is confused?

:confused: :confused: :confused:

scem0

they look like titles to two different books.

arn

Kwyjibo

Jul 10, 2003, 12:04 AM

i think the implication is that they are the same pace because many mac users don't know much unix but want to learn the same as a "dummy" that might buy that book

Mudbug

Jul 10, 2003, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by Chealion

I use it daily, as sometimes, theres no GUI that can beat raw text scrolling across your screen as you wield your sudo powers.

But this is my question - what can I do in command lining that I can't do in a GUI of some form or another? And a better question than that is why would I want to?

Bateman

Jul 10, 2003, 12:21 AM

I just recently starting putting effort towards learning about the terminal, and command line interface provided by it. One site that really helped me get into it was http://www.osxfaq.com/Tutorials/LearningCenter/index.ws .

Hope this helps somebody!

frozenstar

Jul 10, 2003, 12:30 AM

Originally posted by Mudbug
But this is my question - what can I do in command lining that I can't do in a GUI of some form or another? And a better question than that is why would I want to?

Ever had an application that stopped responding and you weren't able to forcibly close it? Welcome to the "kill" command.
That's just one example. I don't have the patience to sit here and think of more. If you're interested you should just read up on it.

Flowbee

Jul 10, 2003, 12:55 AM

Happy to say I've never had to use it. I did open it up once, just out of curiosity. Glad to know it's there, though.

Doctor Q

Jul 10, 2003, 01:02 AM

I live in Terminal. It's one of the apps I always have open, usually with a couple of active windows. I use various Unix commands and tools. Sometimes I forget whether I'm editing a file in TextEdit, Project Builder, or vi and get myself plenty confused by trying to use the wrong shortcut keystrokes!

While working in other Terminal windows, I often use one window to run the command-line version of SETI@home - two copies at once since I have a dual processor Mac.

C14ru5

Jul 10, 2003, 01:13 AM

I use it daily, mostly to do system maintenance and to have access to commands that aren't implemented in the GUI yet. However, the number of commands not in the GUI are shrinking with every release of Mac OS X and applications like Cocktail.

I would say the largest reason to use the terminal is if you are into shell programming. Okay, so you have AppleScript, but that doesn't always cut it. The second largest reason would be sudo commands. Before Panther and fast user switching, the only way you could launch an application/process with other privileges than your own was to sudo open it. Say if I'm administrator and I'm logged into somebody else's account but desperately need a file in my Documents folder, the terminal is the way to do it without having to log out.

sparkleytone

Jul 10, 2003, 01:30 AM

i cannot imagine using OS X without using the terminal. it is an always open app for me as well. i use it to remote admin other computers, watch my system resources, edit files, do more advanced file management, troubleshoot networking, etc etc etc. those that dont use it should look at it. there are many file management functions that are more easily done in the CLI than in GUI.

e.g.

'mv folder destination' is much faster than its GUI counterpart.

C14ru5

Jul 10, 2003, 01:55 AM

Originally posted by sparkleytone
e.g.

'mv folder destination' is much faster than its GUI counterpart.Not if you're a slow typist :D *Click, drag, drop*

However, moving hundreds of files matching a specified pattern and outputting the process to a log file can be a real time saver if done from the Terminal. Or, let's see, appending ".mp3" to the filenames of all the mp3s you just copied from your old Mac, unless the extension already is present or the filename begins with the letter C.

szark

Jul 10, 2003, 02:27 AM

I use it less often than I should. ;)

BTW, I like the slight redesign of the MacPolls page.

loneAzdgari

Jul 10, 2003, 03:04 AM

I mainly use it for the sudo shutdown command so that I can leave my mac downloading overnight and automatically shutdown in the morning. Also I have my screensaver on my desktop.

How does the kill command work?

SilvorX

Jul 10, 2003, 04:14 AM

i rarely use terminal, since i'm too busy usually :(

robbieduncan

Jul 10, 2003, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by scem0
never

it's kinda hard to use terminal on a PC ;).

scem0

Hit Windows-R (or go Start-Run) and type cmd. You now have a terminal (of you are on an NT based Windows, you need to type command on non-NT Windows). It's not a very good terminal but it's there.

MattG

Jul 10, 2003, 05:48 AM

Never had a reason to use it.

iJed

Jul 10, 2003, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by robbieduncan
Hit Windows-R (or go Start-Run) and type cmd. You now have a terminal (of you are on an NT based Windows, you need to type command on non-NT Windows). It's not a very good terminal but it's there.

Yeah but the Windows command line is really poor in comparison to any unix like OS.

I use the terminal for many things all the time including sudoing tasks, ssh, ftp, editing config files and even converting between postscript and PDF (using ghostscript).

Knox

Jul 10, 2003, 06:11 AM

Daily...hourly in fact - i always have the terminal open but it's usually just used to ssh into one of the various other boxes i have/use.

MacFan25

Jul 10, 2003, 06:30 AM

I only use it a couple times a month - usually to check my uptime.

peterjhill

Jul 10, 2003, 07:20 AM

Terminal.app is my primary application at work. Like Knox, I use it to ssh into various machines, routers, and switches. I also use it to run various perl scripts to do administrative chores. It is pretty damn handy!

I just ordered this tee-shirt yesterday:Practical Unix Terrorism (http://bofhcam.org/co-larters/)

robbieduncan

Jul 10, 2003, 07:32 AM

Originally posted by iJed
Yeah but the Windows command line is really poor in comparison to any unix like OS.

I use the terminal for many things all the time including sudoing tasks, ssh, ftp, editing config files and even converting between postscript and PDF (using ghostscript).

It really is very bad indeed. But you can always install Cygwin to get a proper bash based terminal (and a free XWindows implementation as well).

Chealion

Jul 10, 2003, 08:54 AM

arn was right. Two different books. The For Dummies series is great if you need help learning something.

Everything you do in the command line, there is a GUI application for (well nearly all). There are however a few settings you still have to use the Terminal for. I mostly have used the Terminal to use ssh and ftp (the simplest ftp client, and its free with the OS!).

The question about kill. In the terminal, type man kill and you get the system explanation. Kill is a way to stop a process (application) running. Works great in conjunction with top (or you could just use Process Viewer which is the GUI version of top, and when you stop a process or force-quit one, you are using the kill command.

Lanbrown

Jul 10, 2003, 09:04 AM

There are times using CLI is far faster then using a GUI to do the same thing. Some things you can only do in a CLI window.

MacManDan

Jul 10, 2003, 09:53 AM

I use Terminal pretty often (sometimes sneaking around those Apache httpd.conf files), although I don't use it everyday. If there was only a "fairly often a week" option ;) (which would be more often then "a few times a week")

noverflow

Jul 10, 2003, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by frozenstar
Ever had an application that stopped responding and you weren't able to forcibly close it? Welcome to the "kill" command.
That's just one example. I don't have the patience to sit here and think of more. If you're interested you should just read up on it.

I do use the terminal, but on defense for the GUI lad:
To kill a program, instead of looking up its id number then launching the Terminal i just pop down my process wizard menu and hit kill on the one that is bothering me.

Nice think is that in 10.3 you can kill from the new process viewer.

frozenstar

Jul 10, 2003, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by noverflow
I do use the terminal, but on defense for the GUI lad:
To kill a program, instead of looking up its id number then launching the Terminal i just pop down my process wizard menu and hit kill on the one that is bothering me.

That's a 3rd-party application. That's cheating! :D

jxyama

Jul 10, 2003, 11:06 AM

i have a terminal window or two open constantly... i'm still old fashioned so i check my email via:

terminal -[ssh]-> pine

handy for killing bad processes, checking uptimes, "top," etc. as previously mentioned.

helmsc

Jul 10, 2003, 12:09 PM

Snowy_River

Jul 10, 2003, 12:27 PM

I use xterm in X11 for terminal commands. I do this for a number of reasons. Significantly, I can SSH to another *NIX machine and allow it to control my display (open new windows for applications run off the remote machine, etc.). Invaluable when running certain kinds of apps...

blazorama

Jul 10, 2003, 12:29 PM

The Terminal is very handy... It's good to learn, you may need it someday.. For example I needed to configure the built in ftp server in Jaguar--->lukemftp... well come to find out, it doesn't allow chroot..(changing the root directory on login) meaning anyone that logs into your machine through the ftp server can browse all/most of your directories.. and you DON'T have the choice to lock them into one root folder!!! A huge security flaw, that I can't believe Apple allowed! So I installed PUREFTP in it's place, through the terminal, and now I have the ability to change root directories, etc.. things that couldn't be done through GUI...

a link:
http://forums.osxfaq.com/viewtopic.php?t=3610

Billicus

Jul 10, 2003, 12:52 PM

I use a few times a week. To download and install unix packages with apt-get and to help run KDE 3.1 with X11.

Steamboatwillie

Jul 10, 2003, 01:26 PM

I always have several sessions open ssh'd into several Linux boxes at work as well as two of my servers at home. Mostly using VI to work with PERL, BASH scripts, tailing logs, working with MySQL, adminisrating and monitoring firewalls and IDS and most importantly the famous (or not so famous) Bart Simpson mod for fortune! :p

[Thu, Jul 10 2003 1:24pm][steamboatwillie@powerpc][/Users/steamboatwillie]
: bart
THIS PUNISHMENT IS NOT BORING AND POINTLESS
THIS PUNISHMENT IS NOT BORING AND POINTLESS
THIS PUNISHMENT IS NOT BORING AND POINTLESS
THIS PUNISHMENT IS NOT BORING AND POINTLESS

Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 8F24

-hh

Jul 10, 2003, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by scem0
never

it's kinda hard to use terminal on a PC ;).

scem0

Its even harder in OS 9 :D

But when I get an X-Machine later this year, I won't be afraid to dabble...its been ~7 years since I've had the pleasure of using a Unix command line interface.

"ls -laF"

-hh

Makosuke

Jul 10, 2003, 02:55 PM

I'm a hardcore GUI fan, but I still use the terminal practically daily, and even enjoy it at times.

Aside from those "hacking around with root-owned config files" situations, I use it constantly for ssh, and I also have the Perl module Webmake installed, which I invoke via the terminal to build my website.

Webmake rules, incidentally.

mc68k

Jul 10, 2003, 03:01 PM

every day

i used to like re edit a lot, terminal is like 100x better

Doctor Q

Jul 10, 2003, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Steamboatwillie
...and most importantly the famous (or not so famous) Bart Simpson mod for fortune!For those of you who don't know, fortune is an old Unix command-line program that generates a random fortune, such as you might find in a fortune cookie, but on topics with a computer theme. It uses a database of phrases and anecdotes. I used to have fortune in my .login startup script under SunOS so I got my fortune whenever I logged in. When I migrated to another Unix that didn't have the program, I couldn't live without it so I wrote my own version. It has subsequently been replaced with another program I wrote, which generates random office gossip (polite/silly gossip, not vicious gossip) using the names of my coworkers and items in our office. When a coworker who uses my program logs in, he/she is greeted with a sentence of gossip, e.g., John got e-mail from Mary reporting that Bill was caught sneaking green markers out of the supply cabinet and hiding them in Sue's desk. Not always eloquent, sometimes ungrammatical, but often more entertaining than real office gossip.

jamilecrire

Jul 10, 2003, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by C14ru5
Not if you're a slow typist :D *Click, drag, drop*

However, moving hundreds of files matching a specified pattern and outputting the process to a log file can be a real time saver if done from the Terminal. Or, let's see, appending ".mp3" to the filenames of all the mp3s you just copied from your old Mac, unless the extension already is present or the filename begins with the letter C.

Okay now try that on a folder with 1.8 GB of text files that are 2-12kb in size. Command line is much faster.

Mac OS X is for both those who know Unix and for those that know OS 9. Anyone who admins a unix server via ssh instead of via vnc/terminal services/remote desktop knows the difference. All my Linux servers don't even have X installed because qmail, courier, horde/imp, java, tomcat/apache, mysql, etc all run command line. SSH is soooooo much more efficient than some bloated GUI. Hell I can even admin my machines from a dial up session from 1/2 way around the world. Try that with a GUI.

tazo

Jul 11, 2003, 04:28 AM

never. lol. i once tried some thingy to see uptime but that was a while ago :)

droid

Jul 12, 2003, 09:10 AM

When I sit down at my computer, the first app I launch up is Terminal (then X11, Safari, Y!IM, X-Chat, vim, Entourage, Project Builder, and iTunes).

Being that Terminal is already open a quick 'open -a <appname>' is much faster than me even moving over to the hidden dock, finding the apps and clicking on them. I suppose I should just add those to my .bash_profile and not even have to deal w/ doing anything to open all those apps.

I can see how knowing how to type lends itself to preferring this as well. I am not saying that if you can't type you don't like Terminal, but most of my friends that are in the two finger typing camp don't like Terminal at all. :)

deejemon

Nov 21, 2003, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by iJed
Yeah but the Windows command line is really poor in comparison to any unix like OS.

http://www.cygwin.com

You can even invoke the Cygwin binaries from DOS, so you can awk, cut and other things from a DOS batch file.

I don't really use Cygwin myself as I have a REAL UNIX, in the form of OS X. I regularly haeve 7 or 8 Terminal windows open, some of them are simply ssh'ing into our servers running Solaris, Linux and Mac OS X Server, while others are doing stuff locally.

For those simply wondering why you'd use the CLI in the first place, there's an entire other world going on underneath the gooey Aqua candy shell (pun intended, although you may not have understood it). It's like asking why someone would deep-sea dive when you can just cruise over the top in the QE II, or snorkel on the surface.

I started shell scripting lately (I was always just fine with one-at-a-time commands, but learning how to implement logic, automation -eg: "for i in ..."- and regular expressions has been a whole other big thing) since it adds power to the Mac OS X-based desktop environment we're rolling out to our lab and staff desktops. With some shell scripting and clever use of custom attributes in NetInfo, we're able to use the exact same image for both labs and staff, and have them behave slightly differently in each environment.

deejemon

Nov 21, 2003, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by helmsc
Ah yeah, the good ole kill command goes rather nicely with "ps -uax" (to find the process ID). ;)

Try:

killall ProcessName

eg: killall Dock

It does the ps for you. killall -s shows you the equivalent kill pid command. man killall as usual for the full poop.

nek

Nov 22, 2003, 11:07 PM

The Activity Monitor eliminates my need to use Terminal 'top' and is an easy way to kill processes too. Actually cmd-opt-esc is the easiest way to kill an app.

A Finder window can be used to search for a bunch of files which all contain the same letters, but the Terminal allows more control. For example, if you wanted to delete all files which begin with "abc", the Finder would find all files which contain but don't necessarily start with "abc", then you could scroll to the files you want and drag them to the trash. With the Terminal you could just type "rm abc*" and files are gone. On the other hand the Finder could find those files anywhere on your computer, while the Terminal would only delete the files in that directory/folder.

The Terminal is also useful for 'ftp', 'sudo', 'uptime' and anything to do with hidden files.