The iPhone's Greatest Weakness

[Ohwhatda]

Don't get me wrong, I love the iPhone. But the number one thing wrong with it is the PRICE.

First of all, AT&T is requiring that you sign up for a two year contract yet the rumor is that they aren't even subsidizing the phone. How does that make any sense, if the iPhone was subsidized it would bring it down from the astronomical $500-600 to a more reasonable $300-400. Believe it or not, that $200 price difference would open up the product to a whole lot more buyers. And why would AT&T subsidize every other phone, offer great deals like a RAZR for $25, and then leave the iPhone out in the cold? It just doesn't make sense to me, either some other big announcement is going to be made regarding some kind of discount or rebate with the 2 year contract, or I'm afraid the iPhone is going to be introduced with a fizzle.

Believe me, I know there's definitely some demand out there for the iPhone because it's a revolutionary product, but correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Steve Jobs trying to sell as many phones as possible? The $500-600 price point seems to be acceptable to only the most zealous Apple fans or those in fairly high tax brackets. Ask any average consumer... while they may be very impressed with the iPhone their response will probably be along the lines of "I'm not going to spend 600 bucks for a phone."

Now some of you might say, well it's the price of a Video iPod and a PDA and a Phone rolled into one. That may be true, but Apple is marketing the product as a PHONE. It's not called the iTouchScreenVideoiPodWithPhoneCapabilities. They're targetting the cell phone market, the same market that gives away brand new camera phones when someone signs a contract. So when anyone goes to sign up with AT&T their options will be: Get a RAZR for $25, or get an iPhone for $600. While the iPhone is the greatest phone ever made, the second greatest is ONLY $575 cheaper.

This post isn't about how the iPhone isn't a great product, it's about how if Apple doesn't do something to the price, then the product just isn't going to take off. Right now it's luxury product, and while those products gain a ton of hype, unless their priced right it's like trying to sell a Lamborghini... you're only going to get a handful of buyers even though everyone really wants one.

[rdowns]

Most of these people (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500) complained about the price. How'd that work out?

Regarding price, in survey after survey, when buyers are asked what they consider about buying a product, price always falls at number 5 or 6 on the list.

[infobhan]

While many people are not used to spending this kind of money on a phone, Apple has done their research and I think you will be surprised how many of these are sold.

[skubish]

Most of these people (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500) complained about the price. How'd that work out?

Regarding price, in survey after survey, when buyers are asked what they consider about buying a product, price always falls at number 5 or 6 on the list.

That is such garbage.
I believe that surveys say that but price is almost always number 1.
For example, if a product launch at a price of $500 or $10,000 price is definitely a major factor. People who take these surveys are just stupid.

PS: I think the iPhone price is fine.

[fishkorp]

i believe the RAZR was $399 subsidized when it first came out and lots of people still bought them. Apple isn't looking for everyone to have an iPhone in their pocket. their goal is 10m phones by the end of '08 right? 1% of the worldwide market? that's easily attainable with a $500/600 device. it's not marketed toward everyone. if you look at what you're getting for the money, i think it's worth every penny. anyone that thinks otherwise obviously doesn't need all the features.

[slffl]

You're right. The iPhone will fail because of the price. Much like the RAZR failed because of it's price ($500 at launch).

BTW, I live in Bizarro World, so forgive me if I misuse some words.

[chrisgeleven]

Some people make it seem like this is the one and only version of the iPhone. No revisions ever. No price changes ever. The iPhone will be forever frozen in time the second the first one comes off the assembly line.

Relax, wait and see. I bet before long (as the technology is perfected, the manufacturing costs drop, etc.), there will be a bunch of iPhone models at various price points.

[Gonzlobo]

i believe the RAZR was $399 subsidized when it first came out and lots of people still bought them. Apple isn't looking for everyone to have an iPhone in their pocket. their goal is 10m phones by the end of '08 right? 1% of the worldwide market? that's easily attainable with a $500/600 device. it's not marketed toward everyone. if you look at what you're getting for the money, i think it's worth every penny. anyone that thinks otherwise obviously doesn't need all the features.

Trust me, if the stockholders could sell 1 iphone to every human on earth, they'd be elated.

As an open-source PC guy, I think the close-source closed-platform idea limits the iphone too, but they're still going to sell a lot of phones.

[Cleverboy]

This post isn't about how the iPhone isn't a great product, it's about how if Apple doesn't do something to the price, then the product just isn't going to take off. Right now it's luxury product, and while those products gain a ton of hype, unless their priced right it's like trying to sell a Lamborghini... you're only going to get a handful of buyers even though everyone really wants one. It's pretty much decided that this product will take off. If pricing were a huge mistake, then nearly no one would be talking about it. Until the iPhone started elevating pricing expectations, not many in the mainstream were talking about the Nokia N95 either. Nokia is right to say that this knock-on effect is real, given all the positive interest for iPhone.

Previously, over $500 for a phone? Crazy talk. But, now that people have come to the table, its a totally different story. I think the Apple exec had it right when he remarked earlier, "You get what you pay for." Wi-Fi is a premium feature. I can gaurantee that you WILL NOT see this feature on a sub-$400 cellphone. Even Helio's much touted Ocean omits the feature, only to begin cutting its customers off from "free" YouTube access over EV-DO.

So, it seems like the "price" is more about 2 HIGHLY important things. PERCEIVED VALUE and CUSTOMER EDUCATION.

A couple of years ago, I paid $275 for the phone I have now. I feel its a piece of crap (now and not long after getting it), and I regret not feeling I had many choices when my old phone began malfunctioning. I would have GLADLY paid $500-$600 for an iPhone, knowing what I'd be getting. I remember looking at the Sidekicks and thinking that they looked like lipstick on a mouse. WHY couldn't someone just give me a SOLID phone with NO "gotchas"? I'll pay! Nearly ALL of the subsidized phones on the market ship with under 256k of memory/storage. Getting yourself to even a total of 4GB could only be a small amount of money, or it could be impossible. The devil is in the details.

There is an ongoing perception that the iPhone is "overpriced". Submitted for your agreement... the iPhone is "right priced". Not everyone can afford everything, but it WILL come down in time. Over-priced phones currently on the market include the HTC Touch (http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13082) (which is allegedly said NOT to be an iPhone competitor) and the LG Prada. Both of these phones are woefully outmatched compared to the iPhone, and they COST MORE for LESS.


HTC Touch ($500+) - Mm, Steak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVgeTGjjYpY)
LG Prada ($700+) - Walk through (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MVIgT4oySzU)


Long and short, both are horribly sluggish, and seem like kludges yet they wouldn't be priced that way if pricing were a problem. Phone companies use phone pricing to jerk people around. They mask the true price when incentivising people to come over, but if they don't care about you, you're stuck paying full price. When quoting things like the Razr at $50, always watch the "with new activation" caveat. That price isn't for EVERYONE, just new customers and otherwise qualifying ones.

If nothing else, consider the old anecdote about Martha Stewart. She'd sold cookies for a good price, and didn't get much business until she raised prices, establishing a perceived VALUE for her customers. If the iPhone were priced at $50, I'm sure it would do even better, but it would likely be a disaster of epic proportions. Like anything significantly new, let them bring it out high, and gradually lower the price as production efficiencies catch up and any systematic problems are addressed on the large scale.

~ CB

[lilnyc]

You make a good point. Although the price is not an issue to ME, I went to a non-tech community website and asked who's getting the iPhone. No one who responded was getting one. Few if any of them noted reasons like the lack of features, simply the price.

[lilnyc]

i believe the RAZR was $399 subsidized when it first came out and lots of people still bought them. Apple isn't looking for everyone to have an iPhone in their pocket. their goal is 10m phones by the end of '08 right? 1% of the worldwide market? that's easily attainable with a $500/600 device. it's not marketed toward everyone. if you look at what you're getting for the money, i think it's worth every penny. anyone that thinks otherwise obviously doesn't need all the features.

The Razr came out at $700 unlocked. I paid $500 with a 2-year Cingular contract.

[elppa]

My thoughts are this.

You get what you pay for, and then some.

Maybe a possible future iPhone nano type device with a smaller price tag and feature set may be more suited to your needs?

[Cards1]

I paid $499 for the RAZR the day after it came out. I did not mind paying that price because it gave me something that no other phone gave me back then: the ability to put the phone in my pocket. I just hate having something clipped on my belt or a huge bulge (at least on the side of my pants--HA!) on my pockets. Also, I knew when I used the RAZR, people would want to see it and there is something to be said there as well.

With the iPhone, the coolest part of it for me is the iPod features built in. Music, video, and podcasts that I can listen to at any time without having to carry an iPod AND a phone. Carrying one device is the biggest plus for me. Also, not to mention the coolness factor....

[elg23]

Most of these people (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500) complained about the price. How'd that work out?

Regarding price, in survey after survey, when buyers are asked what they consider about buying a product, price always falls at number 5 or 6 on the list.

HAHAA... i never read that thread.. that sounds like people in these threads.. complaining it sucks and its too expensive.. and look how the ipod turned out.. hahh. thats awesome.. if people only knew the ipod would sell 100 million

[pherplexed]

i've been scratching my head wondering why so many people are bitching about the price of this thing. I paid $450 for my treo 2 years ago (subsidized), and then last year paid $350 for my Q (after $100 rebate). The iPhone is not going to cost the same as a regular phone, it's a freakin smart phone.

i know apple is avoiding the term 'smart phone', but for all intents and comparisons...it's a smart phone. And smart phones cost a lot more than regular cell phones. The $599 price tag is steep, but not outrageous for a device like this.

[ShellyFM]

Remember, it's a video iPod, too. So, it's even worth more than the Nanos since the Nanos don't play widescreen video.

Subject the arbitrary cost of that when deciding the true value of the iPhone.

[magicjames92]

ROFLMAO It will probably get cheaper, the razr came out at $800

[TenaciousPZ]

That is such garbage.
I believe that surveys say that but price is almost always number 1.

You are wrong, completely and totally. Do you work in marketing? I do. Price truly does not matter to people. When all aspects are equal, price matters. But when the anti is up, (and "want" is through the roof) a carefully crafted price can work on people.

[TenaciousPZ]

I agree with most of you in this thread. The price steep, but not outrageous or unreasonable. Certainly justifiable at the very least. Not the most over priced "thing" to ever hit the market either, not even in recent years. Remember the price of Apple 20" displays....and that did one thing.

[Cards1]

You are wrong, completely and totally. Do you work in marketing? I do. Price truly does not matter to people. When all aspects are equal, price matters. But when the anti is, (and "want" is through the roof) a carefully crafted price can work on people.

You are right. Especially when people go from a want to a NEED. Now, I know that nobody absolutely NEEDS this phone. But in many people's eyes, they do need this. Apple is driving this phone to new marketing levels by giving bits and pieces of additional info about the phone in the days preceding this release. Brilliant move. Here is the bottom line: people have justified why they need this phone in their own mind. Once you have done that from a marketing standpoint, you are golden.

Consider this: Apple is releasing this phone with no 3G, GPS, etc. They are holding this back on purpose because in this version 1 release it is being called revolutionary. Next version will have 3G. Then GPS. It will go on and on. Don't believe me? Look at the iPod versions. They will give all of us a reason to upgrade to V2, V3, etc.

[rdowns]

That is such garbage.
I believe that surveys say that but price is almost always number 1.
For example, if a product launch at a price of $500 or $10,000 price is definitely a major factor. People who take these surveys are just stupid.

PS: I think the iPhone price is fine.

Really, are you a marketing person? I am and run the $20 million web division of my company so I think I know a thing or two about consumer behavior and buying attitudes. Price is the only issue when products are commodities. The iPhone is hardly a commodity item.

[TenaciousPZ]

HAHAA... i never read that thread.. that sounds like people in these threads.. complaining it sucks and its too expensive.. and look how the ipod turned out.. hahh. thats awesome.. if people only knew the ipod would sell 100 million

Does anyone know if that 100 million number is a world-wide number and what the U.S. percentage is?

[TenaciousPZ]

Consider this: Apple is releasing this phone with no 3G, GPS, etc. They are holding this back on purpose because in this version 1 release it is being called revolutionary. Next version will have 3G. Then GPS. It will go on and on. Don't believe me? Look at the iPod versions. They will give all of us a reason to upgrade to V2, V3, etc.

See I really really really don't think so.

You can't ignore some of the facts about the iPhone that make this highly unlikely..that we'll see a 3G and GPS phone anytime soon.

#1. The phone as WiFi. Depending on who you are and where you spend most of your time, WiFi can be something thats readily available, almost always. You will spend A LOT of time on WiFi with your iPhone. EDGE will fill in nicely when not on wifi, such as out on the road. Its really not that slow, its just not as fast as 3G. Plus, I personally would rather have full coverage just about everywhere (EDGE) than be part of a service that is strong in some places and weak or non-existent in others (3 G).

#2. GPS. Clearly not needed. Google Maps with integrated functions for directions, turn by turn, with Traffic. You don't need GPS. If you don't know where you are to begin with... you're an idiot.

[Uptown710]

I find that the people who lament about the price of the iphone are of the "casual" bracket of cell phone users. Most people who start exploring the world of cell phones know that when a new device is released, that device is pretty pricey when you buy it unsubsidized. The funny thing is, i paid just as much for my w900i when it was released (I think it was about 670 after taxes and all). You think the iPhone is expensive? Just like someone posted, you should see how much the Q cost, unsubsidized. I remember when moto did the star-tac anniversary deal. That phone was about 1200. I am quite pleased that the Iphone cost as much as it does. Plus maybe this will get the ball rolling on companies releasing unsubsidized phones to the US.

[Cleverboy]

Consider this: Apple is releasing this phone with no 3G, GPS, etc. They are holding this back on purpose because in this version 1 release it is being called revolutionary. Next version will have 3G. Then GPS. It will go on and on. Don't believe me? Look at the iPod versions. They will give all of us a reason to upgrade to V2, V3, etc. Unlike other people, I do NOT believe that Apple is "holding back" anything. I think there are more factors at work than people credit them for dealing with. I LOT of thought and intention has gone into this phone. To imply they're "holding back" features like 3G, GPS, and/or a large megapixel camera, etc... to me is crazy talk. More so than running this as an out-and-out "feature" war, Apple has decidedly thought "outside the box" on what this needs to do. Prediction: People will play catch-up on whether they chose wisely.

Palm was caught saying as a new entrant into the mobile phone industry, Apple lacked all the trial-and-error Palm had accrued over years. They are releasing at EXACTLY the right time. If they delayed another 4-6 months in order to get these other things in, and who knows what else, I think we'd be getting a half-baked product. As it stands, some people still say this was "rush-to-market". On the contrary, I think this is the definition of intention, and knowing what things to take on first.

~ CB

[Cards1]

See I really really really don't think so.

You can't ignore some of the facts about the iPhone that make this highly unlikely..that we'll see a 3G and GPS phone anytime soon.

#1. The phone as WiFi. Depending on who you are and where you spend most of your time, WiFi can be something thats readily available, almost always. You will spend A LOT of time on WiFi with your iPhone. EDGE will fill in nicely when not on wifi, such as out on the road. Its really not that slow, its just not as fast as 3G. Plus, I personally would rather have full coverage just about everywhere (EDGE) than be part of a service that is strong in some places and weak or non-existent in others (3 G).

#2. GPS. Clearly not needed. Google Maps with integrated functions for directions, turn by turn, with Traffic. You don't need GPS. If you don't know where you are to begin with... you're an idiot.

All I am saying is that they will add new features with subsequent releases. 3G will happen, but GPS is something I was suggesting. None of us knows what Apple has in mind, but you can bet they already have ideas for the next version and the next, and so on.....

[JellyFish]

I don't see it as overpriced if it provides enough value. I remember buying a stupid Compaq Ipaq years back, hoping I had found the PDA I always wanted. But the ipaqs sucked in one way or another.

The iphone is the PDA I always wanted and dreamed of and it's so much more. For $599? That's cheap! They could charge $999 and I'd pay it as it will provide an immense amount of value to me and I can't wait to get one! :)

[zgh1999]

Don't get me wrong, I love the iPhone. But the number one thing wrong with it is the PRICE.

First of all, AT&T is requiring that you sign up for a two year contract yet the rumor is that they aren't even subsidizing the phone. How does that make any sense, if the iPhone was subsidized it would bring it down from the astronomical $500-600 to a more reasonable $300-400. Believe it or not, that $200 price difference would open up the product to a whole lot more buyers. And why would AT&T subsidize every other phone, offer great deals like a RAZR for $25, and then leave the iPhone out in the cold? It just doesn't make sense to me, either some other big announcement is going to be made regarding some kind of discount or rebate with the 2 year contract, or I'm afraid the iPhone is going to be introduced with a fizzle.

Believe me, I know there's definitely some demand out there for the iPhone because it's a revolutionary product, but correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Steve Jobs trying to sell as many phones as possible? The $500-600 price point seems to be acceptable to only the most zealous Apple fans or those in fairly high tax brackets. Ask any average consumer... while they may be very impressed with the iPhone their response will probably be along the lines of "I'm not going to spend 600 bucks for a phone."

Now some of you might say, well it's the price of a Video iPod and a PDA and a Phone rolled into one. That may be true, but Apple is marketing the product as a PHONE. It's not called the iTouchScreenVideoiPodWithPhoneCapabilities. They're targetting the cell phone market, the same market that gives away brand new camera phones when someone signs a contract. So when anyone goes to sign up with AT&T their options will be: Get a RAZR for $25, or get an iPhone for $600. While the iPhone is the greatest phone ever made, the second greatest is ONLY $575 cheaper.

This post isn't about how the iPhone isn't a great product, it's about how if Apple doesn't do something to the price, then the product just isn't going to take off. Right now it's luxury product, and while those products gain a ton of hype, unless their priced right it's like trying to sell a Lamborghini... you're only going to get a handful of buyers even though everyone really wants one.

It is a free market, and it is called "capitalism". If you can't afford the iPhone, stick with second-rate cell phones instead.

[sananda]

Most of these people (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500) complained about the price. How'd that work out?

Regarding price, in survey after survey, when buyers are asked what they consider about buying a product, price always falls at number 5 or 6 on the list.

it was pretty funny reading throught that thread.

[AirmanPika]

Thing is the iPhone follows the same general trend as any major cell phone does. If they know there is going to be large demand as the RAZR, Treo, and Blackberry have had, then they price the units high at first. They do this to recoup costs from development, and because they know that a significant number will get the phone. Now as manufacturing costs drop and demand starts to wane they start to drop the price accordingly to open the phone up to new customers. I say about X-Mas time you'll see the phone drop $100-200. Summer next year a Gen 2 will probably release and the Gen 1 will drop another $200 (or they'll release a much cheaper gen 2 model a la nano). Thats when you'll see it start to become a common phone in line with the RAZR. You may even see special discounts that bring it down to almost nothing start to appear.

[johnniewalker]

Ever since I first saw the iphone I wanted one!

However that was a while ago, now I'm starting to wonder how long it will be before it gets released in the UK!

Even when it does reach our shores are we going to get ripped off as usual, if the Playstation 3 is anything to go by then yes!!

My other concern is features, I would be prepared to pay around £400 for an iphone if it really did fulfill all my mobile needs, however I already have a HTC TYTN so my major concern is that the iphone won't have all the features that my TYTN does already, a good camera/video function plus built-in GPS and the ability to use it as a bluetooth modem for my macbook is want I need!

[DakotaGuy]

Most of these people (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=500) complained about the price. How'd that work out?

Regarding price, in survey after survey, when buyers are asked what they consider about buying a product, price always falls at number 5 or 6 on the list.

Personally I think comparing the iPod to the iPhone is really an apples to oranges comparison. Yes you are right when you said there were a lot of naysayers when the iPod came out, however I feel the phone market is different today then what the MP3 player market was back then. There are good phone products available for much less then the iPhone. Don't get me wrong the iPhone is awesome, but it truly is a product for the have's not the have not's. There are rich kids that will parade around showing off their iPhone whenever they can, and that's fine. Since I turned 30 last year, I could care less about what my phone looks like, as long as it works and is compact.

Another difference is that it's not just the $600 initial cost of the phone...there is also a voice/data plan that has to go along with it. Expect a phone bill every month in excess of $100. Of course if you get a very limited plan it might be less, but to really use the iPhone the way it was designed will require a good plan.

So over a 2 year contract one can expect somewhere around $2400 just to use the phones capabilities and then you have to add in a $600 phone. I think $3000 over a 2 year period is a lot of money, however I am sure to many here it is just pocket change.

[Atomic-Ed]

Shame it is only AT&T compatible. I wll not be buying the iphone, not simply because of the price being steep, which IMO it is, but I might have still bought one possibly if it weren't for the fact they won't work with the Verizon network. Unless a new phone comes out with a built in flux capacitor, I will have no reason to leave Verizon's excellent cdma service. I will simply not use GSM for any reason. I truly think they have severely limited their potential sales by jumping in with AT&T only.

[bloodycape]

It's pretty much decided that this product will take off. If pricing were a huge mistake, then nearly no one would be talking about it. Until the iPhone started elevating pricing expectations, not many in the mainstream were talking about the Nokia N95 either. Nokia is right to say that this knock-on effect is real, given all the positive interest for iPhone.

Previously, over $500 for a phone? Crazy talk. But, now that people have come to the table, its a totally different story. I think the Apple exec had it right when he remarked earlier, "You get what you pay for." Wi-Fi is a premium feature. I can gaurantee that you WILL NOT see this feature on a sub-$400 cellphone. Even Helio's much touted Ocean omits the feature, only to begin cutting its customers off from "free" YouTube access over EV-DO.

Yes you can get a sub 400 with wifi. There is the older but reasonably capable 6700 from VZW and Sprint. If you are luck the Cingular 8525 you can get refurbed for $99 from AT&T or new for $250-350 depending on where you go. On T-Mobile Dash you can get $150 with contract $350 with out, the HTC T-Mobile Wing(not to be confused with the HTC Wings) that is $300 not sure with or with out a contract. There are probably some devices I forgot, but yeah just saying.

[beate]

i believe the RAZR was $399 subsidized when it first came out and lots of people still bought them.

I did and was never sorry...but so hated that I have to add each number for a person in a different entry.
...and so hate carrying a PDA & iPod so I can have music & my freaking addresses & calendar/to dos (which I need).

I'm soooooooooo paying $600 to solve those problems (and then some...).

I've done the math...I paid 400 for Razr & 500 for Sony Clie - the iPhone is a bargain! Still need the iPod for video & general storage but my music and some pictures will fit so I'll need ONE device on a day-to-day basis. Yay!

And no - I never considered a "smartphone" before. Clumsy & ugly.

[dubels]

I was really convinced that I needed one until I read that there will be an early cancelation fee of $175 for existing customers. I was planning on just buying the phone but not if there needs to be a new two year contract plus a $175 dollar fee. Not subsidizing the phone is one thing, trying to cheat people out of every little penny is another. This is not apples fault but more of an ATT thing.

[Cleverboy]

Yes you can get a sub 400 with wifi. There is the older but reasonably capable 6700 from VZW and Sprint. If you are luck the Cingular 8525 you can get refurbed for $99 from AT&T or new for $250-350 depending on where you go. On T-Mobile Dash you can get $150 with contract $350 with out, the HTC T-Mobile Wing(not to be confused with the HTC Wings) that is $300 not sure with or with out a contract. There are probably some devices I forgot, but yeah just saying. Oh, come on... you didn't just switch to talking about USED and REFURBISHED hardware did you? :) Why would I be comparing new prices to prices that have no clear benchmark? :confused:

You're completely right about the T-Mobile Wing though. Apparently T-Mobile will subsidize it to $299 with a 2 year agreement, a trending willingness that I still think is a relatively recent development. The normal price of the phone is $600 otherwise. I guess my point has to lower to "sub $299" then, but I still think that's a hell of a lot more than the $0-$50 consumers might otherwise be used to. I just think there's something to the price in this area of product that consumers need to be educated on.
I was really convinced that I needed one until I read that there will be an early cancelation fee of $175 for existing customers. I was planning on just buying the phone but not if there needs to be a new two year contract plus a $175 dollar fee. Not subsidizing the phone is one thing, trying to cheat people out of every little penny is another. This is not apples fault but more of an ATT thing. From what I've heard, if you buy at the Apple store, you walk right out with it, no contract, no fuss. Whether your Wi-Fi will be working, or whether the phone will be usable... is another story.

~ CB

[nateDEEZY]

Well to me the deal breaker was lack of 3G and the lack of an Instant Messaging client =S

[Chip NoVaMac]

You make a good point. Although the price is not an issue to ME, I went to a non-tech community website and asked who's getting the iPhone. No one who responded was getting one. Few if any of them noted reasons like the lack of features, simply the price.

I did the same on a non-tech site - and NONE were planning on buying an iPhone at this point. Price was about 25% of the thumbs down, another 30% were against buying the first release of a "tech demanding" product, another 20% were thumbs down becuse of the feature set, and the rest were because it being locked to the AT&T network.

I paid $499 for the RAZR the day after it came out. I did not mind paying that price because it gave me something that no other phone gave me back then: the ability to put the phone in my pocket. I just hate having something clipped on my belt or a huge bulge (at least on the side of my pants--HA!) on my pockets. Also, I knew when I used the RAZR, people would want to see it and there is something to be said there as well.

In some ways the Razr sales experience is one reason I am trying to cool my jets on the iPhone. For will the iPhone for cel phone history and see price drops a year out? I am guessing not.

I feel in love with the Razr when it first came out, but still don't have one. May end up with one if I decide to switch phones and/or carriers if I don't get the iPhone route. Still love the look and size of the Razr.

[bloodycape]

Oh, come on... you didn't just switch to talking about USED and REFURBISHED hardware did you? :) Why would I be comparing new prices to prices that have no clear benchmark? :confused:

You're completely right about the T-Mobile Wing though. Apparently T-Mobile will subsidize it to $299 with a 2 year agreement, a trending willingness that I still think is a relatively recent development. The normal price of the phone is $600 otherwise. I guess my point has to lower to "sub $299" then, but I still think that's a hell of a lot more than the $0-$50 consumers might otherwise be used to. I just think there's something to the price in this area of product that consumers need to be educated on.
From what I've heard, if you buy at the Apple store, you walk right out with it, no contract, no fuss. Whether your Wi-Fi will be working, or whether the phone will be usable... is another story.

~ CB

I only did because it was listed on AT&T site but yeah. And the T-Mobile Wings is actually $500 for TMO without a contract, but I am sure one can get it on eBay for less if one really wants that phone. If you did sub 299 there is the Dash which is like $150 and the upcoming Samsung i760 which is rumored to go for $170. Well the Razr2 is comming out so I guess we could see how that going to be priced I dunno.

[tttexxan]

I wouldnt get your hopes up about the pricing coming down any time soon....Just look how much the 60 gig video cost 300 bucks.....If the Iphone comes down in price I would think it would atleast stay around 385-450 for the 8gig....Heck even the 8 gig nano goes for 249.

With the iphone being internet, video, music, youtube and so much more it wont come down like you think....Maybe other lesser models will come out without all these features, but even the PDA and smartphones today have a HIGH HIGH price....

[Chip NoVaMac]

I wouldnt get your hopes up about the pricing coming down any time soon....Just look how much the 60 gig video cost 300 bucks.....If the Iphone comes down in price I would think it would atleast stay around 385-450 for the 8gig....Heck even the 8 gig nano goes for 249.

With the iphone being internet, video, music, youtube and so much more it wont come down like you think....Maybe other lesser models will come out without all these features, but even the PDA and smartphones today have a HIGH HIGH price....

The point I was making is what happens in 6 to 12 months as demand slacks off for the first release? Will AT&T end subsidizing it it? Or will AT&T demand the iPhone V2 with 16 and 32 gb RAM, GPS and a widget to support it at the current price points?

I think it is safe to say that most cell phones are on the market for at least two years before their replacements come out. Just in time to get a user to sign-up for another two years.

For Apple and AT&T, the iPhone may test the consumers expectations in regards to cell phones. What will happen in a year, year and a half when the battery needs to replaced? How many people will go without their phone for more than a few hours?

In regards to PDA/Cell Phone prices, though I thought I saw a link for the new CrackBerry 8830 world phone for $199 through Verizon (though in writing this post their website says $299).

For myself, the perfect cell phone would have the Internet, "actual" apps to use AIM and YIM natively,PIM and connectivity for the Mac out of the box. Music and videos is nice, but not needed for my use.

[Xenious]

In my ideal world all US carriers would get rid of subsidized phones. In fact they shouldn't even sell phones. Does your land line provider sell you your phone? (yea they used to rent them, but no more that I know of) Your mobile provider is a telco or an ISP depending on how you view it. They should provide you connectivity and value added services, not equipment. On top of that if the US would standardize on one family of connectivity (like EU/UK/Africa/Australia ie GSM and associated 3G familes) we would be better set for this telco/device maker seperation and see more value added services (because phones would technically work on any US provider).

For the record I am in the US and I buy my phones without subsidy and not from my mobile provider. I'm not locked in a contract and haven't been for at least 5 years. :) And yea, I want an iphone. haha

[skubish]

Really, are you a marketing person? I am and run the $20 million web division of my company so I think I know a thing or two about consumer behavior and buying attitudes. Price is the only issue when products are commodities. The iPhone is hardly a commodity item.

You guys miss understand what I am saying. Price is always a factor. If it wasn't then Apple could charge $1,000,000 for it and people will still buy it. Because as you say its not a commodity.

Price is the ticket that gets you in the game. And if you are in the ballpark you aren't in the game.

Someone in marketing should know this.

[ezekielrage_99]

You don't but Apple stuff to get cheap, Apple tends to cost more compared to other similar products.

If a person wants a phone, MP3 player, etc doesn't not factor price into the equation, most buyer who buy a product of these nature purchase on features, brand and looks.

[marksman]

Pricing is tough to manage regardless of the product.

That being said, do people think they would have sold twice as mnay products if they priced them at $249 and $299? Probably not. Yet they would have significantly more costs as well. So you have to find the sweet spot where you make the most money, not necessarily only sell the most toal units.

[Cleverboy]

I only did because it was listed on AT&T site but yeah. And the T-Mobile Wings is actually $500 for TMO without a contract, but I am sure one can get it on eBay for less if one really wants that phone. If you did sub 299 there is the Dash which is like $150 and the upcoming Samsung i760 which is rumored to go for $170. Well the Razr2 is comming out so I guess we could see how that going to be priced I dunno.
Yeah, if you keep dipping into eBay, you really can't compare anything fairly to a product that will JUST be coming out, without any time to create people with regrets, disinterest, or logistical problems that prompt them to sell at a loss. The T-Mobile Wing price I got was retail. I'm sorry, but I'm not scouring for lowest prices, you can get really "all over the place" with that. I see the Dash going for $350, or $200 with a two-year contract. I don't think its anywhere near accurate to intermix used-product classified listings with retail store prices. Kind of nutty.
Pricing is tough to manage regardless of the product.
That being said, do people think they would have sold twice as mnay products if they priced them at $249 and $299? Probably not. Yet they would have significantly more costs as well. So you have to find the sweet spot where you make the most money, not necessarily only sell the most toal units. Agreed. I'm interested to understand Apple's strategy better. The assumption is that they don't want to devalue their MP3 player line. Subsidizing would be such a hit though, if they were simply looking to move units. They've certainly got a butt-load of R&D to recoup, and I doubt iSuppli really has the goods on estimated equipment cost.

~ CB

[sjo]

Really, are you a marketing person? I am and run the $20 million web division of my company so I think I know a thing or two about consumer behavior and buying attitudes. Price is the only issue when products are commodities. The iPhone is hardly a commodity item.

why don't you turn your $20m division into $200m division? price doesn't matter so that wuold be easy, just increase the prices ten fold. and next month, why not turn your division into a $2B one?

[Dagless]

I think you're right, but for a lot of people money isn't an important issue when it comes to sub £1k devices. I agree that the price is a little steep and it has pushed me out of the market, but it still doesn't have the features I want! So that price would shoot up for what I need.

IMO the greatest weakness for me is no 3G (The world is bigger than the US, Apple :rolleyes: everyone else moved onto 3G), no GPS and paltry storage space. 8gb? With these 32gb chips I would have expected one of them, or at least 16gb. 4 and 8 for a video, MP3 player and photo viewing machine really isn't enough for me and I'm a fan of carrying around at least all my music (vidoes not so important).

[bloodycape]

Yeah, if you keep dipping into eBay, you really can't compare anything fairly to a product that will JUST be coming out, without any time to create people with regrets, disinterest, or logistical problems that prompt them to sell at a loss. The T-Mobile Wing price I got was retail. I'm sorry, but I'm not scouring for lowest prices, you can get really "all over the place" with that. I see the Dash going for $350, or $200 with a two-year contract. I don't think its anywhere near accurate to intermix used-product classified listings with retail store prices. Kind of nutty.

~ CB

I see what you are saying, but all the prices I got were from the carriers website. The Dash price is what I saw on T-Mobiles site. But what i want to say is that you can get it even cheaper than the carrier if you let say go purchase it from Amazon or something which many geeky people do.

[LenP]

Entering text.

But I'm not worried, since I'll do most of that on my Mac with iCal.

:p

[bloodycape]

I dont think the screen in the real weakness, the real weakness is going to be the battery life. Hey it maybe good battery life but, the fact that its not user replaceable and after 300-400 charges its going to need a replacement aint that good.

[psychofreak]

Entering text.
How do you know?

Walt said it was nice after a week, maybe you would love it after a minute's play. Maybe I have an advantage as I barely type on my phone so have no habits to lose...maybe it will be horrible...

[amd4me]

ROFLMAO It will probably get cheaper, the razr came out at $800

Yep it was 799 WITH a 2 year contract!

[grafikat]

The greatest weakness is the battery...send it back to apple if there's a problem? Blech!

On the price, folks over at PCWorld (http://blogs.pcworld.com/techlog/archives/004739.html) seem to think it's a great deal:
For instance, I have something called the PDAMax plan for my Treo 750; it's $55 a month. Lemme see here--if I were to dump the Treo for an iPhone, I'd save $35 a month...over the two-year contract, that'd be $840 in savings...which means that I could not only pay for an 8GB iPhone, but I'd have $240 left!

[pr5owner]

i've been scratching my head wondering why so many people are bitching about the price of this thing. I paid $450 for my treo 2 years ago (subsidized), and then last year paid $350 for my Q (after $100 rebate). The iPhone is not going to cost the same as a regular phone, it's a freakin smart phone.

i know apple is avoiding the term 'smart phone', but for all intents and comparisons...it's a smart phone. And smart phones cost a lot more than regular cell phones. The $599 price tag is steep, but not outrageous for a device like this.

no its not a smart phone, its just a regular phone with a touch screen, a Smartphone has 3rd party support, customization, business applications. Basically Smartphone’s have advanced configurations to suite your needs. The iPhone does not have the customization that S60 and WM5/6 phones have, not even close.

Yes the $600 price tag IS Steep when the HTC X7500 is free from T-MO-UK the X7500 puts the iphone to shame. Also HTC had the Universal out 2 years ago, the universal was HTC’s first 3G phone, dual video cams, VGA screen (640x480), 3.6” screen, full SD slot 4+GB capable, stereo speakers.

Remember, it's a video iPod, too. So, it's even worth more than the Nanos since the Nanos don't play widescreen video.

Subject the arbitrary cost of that when deciding the true value of the iPhone.

LOL yes only the Nano doesn’t play video, yet every mp3 player out there that’s CHEAPER does play videos. The Meizu M6 8GB is $150CDN Shipped with all accessories, Crystal hard case, silicone case, arm band and kick stand, how much does an 8GB ipod nano cost? $300CDN NO Accessories. The ipod cant do 1/15 the things the meizu can. The meizu sounds better too.

ROFLMAO It will probably get cheaper, the razr came out at $800

Yes but that was 3.5 years ago, technology back then wasn’t cheap, the razr was really thing with dual color LCD’s. just like laptops, the cheapest laptop you could get back then with crap features was around $1300, now? Laptops are $400-500 for the low end, and they aint that bad as most of them are able to run new OS’s like vista or ubuntu w/ beryl

#1. The phone as WiFi. Depending on who you are and where you spend most of your time, WiFi can be something thats readily available, almost always. You will spend A LOT of time on WiFi with your iPhone. EDGE will fill in nicely when not on wifi, such as out on the road. Its really not that slow, its just not as fast as 3G. Plus, I personally would rather have full coverage just about everywhere (EDGE) than be part of a service that is strong in some places and weak or non-existent in others (3 G).

#2. GPS. Clearly not needed. Google Maps with integrated functions for directions, turn by turn, with Traffic. You don't need GPS. If you don't know where you are to begin with... you're an idiot.

#1 you are paying for the data connection as it is a FORCED contract term, why do you have to live at edge speeds? When phones cheaper can get faster speeds? 3G is 3G, there is no compromise. The cheaper phones also have Wifi BG as well and they’ve had them WAY before the iphone was even announced, 3 years ago PDA phones had BG wifi (HTC Wizard and HTC Prophet)

#2 same as above, cheaper phones have GPS, how the hell is google maps going to tell you where you are when the phone doesn’t even know? It will not update in real time, it will not tell you turn by turn because it doesn’t know where you are, plain and simple. Google maps only works well with GPS period. If you look at the demo the guy has to keep hitting next, I thought you were supposed to be playing with your electronics while driving. This is called a Hazard waiting to happen. With my HTC phone, I hook the audio out into my cars headunit, and it will tell me where to turn (IE: in 200 meters turn left, drive 1.5 kms and turn right, in 100meters destination on the right)

If you travel to another city where you haven’t been before and you don’t know ever major street off by heart, does that make you an idiot? So what your saying is that you are an idiot because you don’t know every major road (let alone residential roads) in every major city (again, let alone smaller cities or towns)

Unlike other people, I do NOT believe that Apple is "holding back" anything

They are a business, the first goal of any business is to make a profit, they make a profit by giving the pubic only a fraction of what they want, then release another product with a little more so the first people upgrade, so on and so on, I guess you can call this forced return customers. Only now has any pda manufacturing company made a QWERTY slide out KB, GPS, VGA screen, fast CPU with 3.5G.

I don't see it as overpriced if it provides enough value. I remember buying a stupid Compaq Ipaq years back, hoping I had found the PDA I always wanted. But the ipaqs sucked in one way or another.

The iphone is the PDA I always wanted and dreamed of and it's so much more. For $599? That's cheap! They could charge $999 and I'd pay it as it will provide an immense amount of value to me and I can't wait to get one! :)
Not over priced? The TyTN which is more capable than the iphone is FREE with an 18mo contract from TMO, not even 24mom 18!!!!!!

Your comparing a pda from Compaq a couple years old to the iphone which isn’t even released yet? Right because that’s a proper comparison, BTW the ipaq’s now have GPS in them, does the iphone have that?
The iphone isn’t even a pda, it’s a phone with a touch screen, a REAL pda has the ability to install applications, stupid websites and browser plugins are not applications. Right now its look as though the iphone wont even be able to act as a Bluetooth modem. REAL PDA phones now are $300-500 unlocked unbranded, no contract, full accessories, shipped from online stores. Most of the pda phones exceed the iphone in almost every way. Phones that are 3 years old are on PAR with the iphone.

It is a free market, and it is called "capitalism". If you can't afford the iPhone, stick with second-rate cell phones instead.

Sure ill stick with my second rate 1.5yr old phone that can do this… (click on link below for rough comparison)

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3737242&postcount=37


My other concern is features, I would be prepared to pay around £400 for an iphone if it really did fulfill all my mobile needs, however I already have a HTC TYTN so my major concern is that the iphone won't have all the features that my TYTN does already, a good camera/video function plus built-in GPS and the ability to use it as a bluetooth modem for my macbook is want I need!

Going to the iphone is a huge step down from your current phone

Your phone is HSDPA capable, video call capable, you have hundreds of thousands of 3rd party apps avalible too you, you are not restricted in any form or fashion, you can upgrade to WM6 when it comes out, or just upgrade now with a custom rom. If you don’t have a Bluetooth function that you want, you can install the widcomm Bluetooth stack to ADD functionality, I highly doubt the iphone is capable of that. At this point its not even known that the iphone can do video recording at all, with my 2GB microsd that has 800MB in use, I can record 8 HOURS of MP4 video. Why would you pay £400 when the TyTN is FREE from TMO on an 18mo contract? Hell you can even get the X7500 free or the HTC trinity which is a TyTN without the KB.


BTW the iPhone is 480x320, some weird 3:2 resolution, this is different than your ipod video which is 320x240 (at least a standard 4:3 resolution) in reality an ipod video’s files are more compatible with Windows mobile phones than they are the iPhone. You have to convert all your videos or probably CROP them to make them fit the native resolution of the iPhone. There’s so many things wrong with the iPhone its almost not even worth looking at.

[pr5owner]

I dont think the screen in the real weakness, the real weakness is going to be the battery life. Hey it maybe good battery life but, the fact that its not user replaceable and after 300-400 charges its going to need a replacement aint that good.

actually according to some sources the battery is a PLUS! (imagine that)

apparently if you report your iphone stolen, ATT will send out a command to disable charging of the iphone, if the battery is not removeable, you cannot charge it externally, therefore iphone = hooped.

its dumb to steal a phone anyways since IMEIs can be blacklisted in mins rendering the phone totally useless anyways even if you can charge it.

i think the battery security feature isnt needed. i would much rather have a DOUBLE battery for the iphone rather than think about theives stealing it. at least i can enjoy it.

if the iphone had a double battery with the 8hrs stock rated talk time, you could have 16hrs talk time or 48hrs mp3 time. much better than having ATT disable your phone if you dont pay your bills (they probably wont but you know what im saying)