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View Full Version : Guys I Need Help PB or 8500?


zuggerat
Jul 12, 2003, 11:44 AM
Im in really bad shape i was all set to get a new PB 15" when they are released (hopefully soon)...and last night i went to my friends house for a LAN party and all of a sudden there's his 8500 sittin on his desk and now im not so sure i wanna PB anymore...

I basically multitask, play simulations and 1st person shooters (i was willing to give up a lil game playing), and download music and burn CD's. Now im not so sure about what to do. This is where my dilemma is...

Dell 8500

2.4 Ghz Pentium 4m
1GB DDR RAM 266 Mhz
64 MB Nvidra GeForce 4 4200 Go 4X AGP
40 GB Harddrive
CD-RW/DVD-ROM
15" WSX+GA/WUGA
XP Pro

$2596 w/$350 mail rebate so it's really $2246

OOOORRRRRR

PowerBook G4 (Current specs and pricing)

1Ghz G4 (about a 2.2/2.4 Ghz P4?)
1GB DDR RAM 133 Mhz
64 MB Ati Radeon 9000 4X AGP
40 GB Harddrive
CD-RW/DVD-ROM
15" WXGA?
Mac OS X 10.2.7

$2496 w/educational discount

I'm really stuck hit me up with some advice thanx all!

excalibur313
Jul 12, 2003, 12:09 PM
I'm in a similar boat. I was all set to go with the 15 but then i saw my friends dell laptop and was tempted to switch over. And then i thought about it. Granted the specs on the dell are really nice but think about all of the crap you need to plow through with windows xp. All of those wizards, msn instant messanger which you can't get rid of in the tray, stability, etc. I find that even if pcs are a little faster apples work so nice and look damn good doing it so i'm willing to sacrifice a little speed for stability. Computers are at a point now where new ones can run pretty much whatever you want pretty quick so there is little sense getting bogged down with a computer because its a little faster but crashes and annoys the heck out of you. That's just my opinion.
-Steve

excalibur313
Jul 12, 2003, 12:11 PM
p.s.- by going with a laptop anyway you've decided to swap speed for mobility so whats a smidge more speed for stability?

matthew24
Jul 12, 2003, 01:01 PM
I am not even willing to have a Windows system for a dollar.

:confused: :( :confused: :( :confused: :(

Schiffi
Jul 12, 2003, 01:03 PM
Believe me, I got almost the same PowerBook as you (though I got the 60gig and Superdrive in addition and mine came with 10.2.3). You won't be dissapointed. I don't know too much about Simulation, but I heard X-Plane was good. But if you want games like Half-Life, GTA3, or those you might want to go with Dell. However, I have played Quake3A flawlessly (as flawlessly as you can on dial-up grrrrr) on my Ti and you won't be disappointed. Though I'd get a Superdrive if I were you, burning DVDs on the go never ceases to impress. Do the current Ti's still boot into OS9? Because some older games won't install under X and to play them I have to go into 9. It's a'ight, better than installing games in XP only to find out you don't have the right drivers.

Multitasking on the PB is absolute! I can copy files and delete files and empty the trash can and burn a CD all at the same time! I can also render in Premiere on top of that. Windows users can't possibly fathom the sheer multitasking abilities here!

One possible flaw is that if you FTP or share folders with Finder, if the file is too big for you connection, finder will crash. And there seems to be a slight "keyboard scratching the LCD" problem. Though I put a handkerchief in there to protect it.

For some "mac games", I suggest going to:
www.macsoft.com
www.aspyr.com

XnavxeMiyyep
Jul 12, 2003, 01:12 PM
Zuggerat -
While the comparisons on the laptop are pretty much equal, each has a few advantages.

Dell 8500:
- compatible with more games/software(not necessarily better software).
- cheaper after rebate

Powerbook G4:
- looks nicer (both the laptop and the OS)
- more stable and secure
- easier to use
- much faster multitasking

While the Powerbook has more advantages, the Dell has more games. If the Powerbook has enough games that you enjoy, then get the Powerbook.

zuggerat
Jul 12, 2003, 01:53 PM
aight guys thanx...ive decide to go with the PowerBook i should be purchasing it within the next week...hopefully the AL version will be made available within that time frame (MWNY). Thanx peeps

zuggerat
Jul 12, 2003, 01:54 PM
is there a huge difference between the 867 and 1 ghz G4?...im thinkin no but lemme hear some stuff

hvfsl
Jul 12, 2003, 02:36 PM
Wait for the new 15ins to come out since they will have the Radeon 9600 and faster cpus. However if it is games that are most important to you then you and you have to get one now, then you should get a PC laptop. The fastest version of that laptop is the fastest laptop in terms of games at the moment. However a 1.2Ghz G4 with Radeon 9600M is much faster. On PC laptops, the Radeon 9600M is 25-30% faster than the Nvidia 4200GO. Remember that the current 15ins are almost a year old.

If I was you, I would wait. I have been waiting to get a new 15in since the 17in and 12in came out, but I know it will be worth it when I get on of the new 15ins. They have to be updates by October since the current models were released in Oct 2002. They will be updated at ether MW NY (I think its called create) or MW Paris.

zuggerat
Jul 12, 2003, 05:28 PM
thanx powerbook it is yyaaayyy

thebossisback
Jul 13, 2003, 11:21 AM
also i think the powerbook has a better graphics card

Gus
Jul 14, 2003, 02:23 AM
Originally posted by thebossisback
also i think the powerbook has a better graphics card

I was just going to add that myself. I am not particularly impressed with nVidia lately, and the 9000 ATI is a nice card.

Regards,
Gus

ZildjianKX
Jul 14, 2003, 02:40 AM
I'm still really looking into getting a powerbook, and since this thread is about games, I figured I'd ask. Are there any games you can't run at 1280x854 with maxed out settings? Like Quake 3, Warcraft 3, UT2003 or Sim City 4? Just curious how good of a gaming machine it actually is... thanks! :)

Mav451
Jul 14, 2003, 03:31 AM
Originally posted by excalibur313
I'm in a similar boat. I was all set to go with the 15 but then i saw my friends dell laptop and was tempted to switch over. And then i thought about it. Granted the specs on the dell are really nice but think about all of the crap you need to plow through with windows xp. All of those wizards, msn instant messanger which you can't get rid of in the tray, stability, etc. I find that even if pcs are a little faster apples work so nice and look damn good doing it so i'm willing to sacrifice a little speed for stability. Computers are at a point now where new ones can run pretty much whatever you want pretty quick so there is little sense getting bogged down with a computer because its a little faster but crashes and annoys the heck out of you. That's just my opinion.
-Steve

actually the messenger is quite easy to get rid of -- UNCHECK the "run this program when windows starts". That's all you need to do.

If you seriously want to game then the PC option is there. XP is only "bogged down" if you let it. I can send you the registry entry that basically disables all the bg services that most users do not need--this will probably drop your starting page file size by over 50%. Neither will XP crash/annoy you unless you INSTALL the wrong driver.

Now, if you aren't AS serious about games, and you want the Mac, then go for it. I'm not entirely sure about what your situation is -- is this gonna be your "switch" per say?

Also, I'd look around for other laptops anyway--either Mac or PC side.

As hvfsl said, the 9600 core will be out for laptops--which is significantly better...

*oops, i see you already got your PB.

thebossisback
Jul 14, 2003, 08:36 AM
with that screen and graphics card, there shouldnt be any games that won't run well

gopher
Jul 14, 2003, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by zuggerat
Im in really bad shape i was all set to get a new PB 15" when they are released (hopefully soon)...and last night i went to my friends house for a LAN party and all of a sudden there's his 8500 sittin on his desk and now im not so sure i wanna PB anymore...

I basically multitask, play simulations and 1st person shooters (i was willing to give up a lil game playing), and download music and burn CD's. Now im not so sure about what to do. This is where my dilemma is...

Dell 8500

2.4 Ghz Pentium 4m
1GB DDR RAM 266 Mhz
64 MB Nvidra GeForce 4 4200 Go 4X AGP
40 GB Harddrive
CD-RW/DVD-ROM
15" WSX+GA/WUGA
XP Pro

$2596 w/$350 mail rebate so it's really $2246

OOOORRRRRR

PowerBook G4 (Current specs and pricing)

1Ghz G4 (about a 2.2/2.4 Ghz P4?)
1GB DDR RAM 133 Mhz
64 MB Ati Radeon 9000 4X AGP
40 GB Harddrive
CD-RW/DVD-ROM
15" WXGA?
Mac OS X 10.2.7

$2496 w/educational discount

I'm really stuck hit me up with some advice thanx all!

Look more carefully, that 1 Ghz G4 for $2496 includes a CD-RW/DVD-R not DVD-ROM. That means you can burn DVDs with it, whereas the Dell you quoted you can't burn DVDs. I think the choice is clear. Oh and a 1 Ghz G4 is more than a 3 Ghz Pentium depending on the application. People will disagree with me, but the Pentium has too many bottlenecks. The G4 takes less power and is much more efficient. You get 5 hours of battery life from the Powerbook, and only 2 hours from the Dell.

thebossisback
Jul 14, 2003, 09:02 AM
Dont you mean the powerbook has a superdrive, which can do everythinh?

rt_brained
Jul 14, 2003, 09:53 AM
I was in a similar situation a while back.

But then I realized that Dell's weren't made by Apple.

gopher
Jul 14, 2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by thebossisback
Dont you mean the powerbook has a superdrive, which can do everythinh?

That's exactly what I mean.

PHARAOHk
Jul 14, 2003, 02:18 PM
What OS do you want? Apple is just now leveling the processor playing field. Hopefully in five years the only difference will be OS and then there is no question which one to choose.

(((k)))

hvfsl
Jul 14, 2003, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by thebossisback
also i think the powerbook has a better graphics card

The current 15in PowerBook has a Radeon 9000M and the Dell has a Geforce 4200GO, which is much faster.

hvfsl
Jul 14, 2003, 02:46 PM
[i] I think the choice is clear. Oh and a 1 Ghz G4 is more than a 3 Ghz Pentium depending on the application. People will disagree with me, but the Pentium has too many bottlenecks. [/B]

I think you are confused, the G4 has the bottlenecks, the P4 is just slow, it does not do many things per clock compaired to other chips. The 1Ghz G4 is about the speed of a 2Ghz P4 in everything except PhotoShop because Adobe has heavily optimised for the G4. I have benchmarked and worked with both and now what I am talking about.

hvfsl
Jul 14, 2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by ZildjianKX
I'm still really looking into getting a powerbook, and since this thread is about games, I figured I'd ask. Are there any games you can't run at 1280x854 with maxed out settings? Like Quake 3, Warcraft 3, UT2003 or Sim City 4? Just curious how good of a gaming machine it actually is... thanks! :)

Only the new G5s can run all games with Max settings. For games like UT2003 you will have to turn the graphics down quite a bit (it is the same for PCs). If you want a gaming laptop get the new 15in that should come soon, it will have the Radeon 9600M which is a lot faster in games. Sim City 4 also has problems running at Max settings, although this is more down to the cpu.

gopher
Jul 14, 2003, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by hvfsl
Only the new G5s can run all games with Max settings. For games like UT2003 you will have to turn the graphics down quite a bit (it is the same for PCs). If you want a gaming laptop get the new 15in that should come soon, it will have the Radeon 9600M which is a lot faster in games. Sim City 4 also has problems running at Max settings, although this is more down to the cpu.
Simcity 4 runs just fine on my 800 Mhz iMac G4 no L3 cache, 768 MB of RAM and 32 MB of VRAM. The 15" Powerbook should be plenty fast enough for it being faster than my iMac.

solvs
Jul 14, 2003, 05:30 PM
I think you made the right choice. My Stepmother has a Dell notebook, it's awful.

PowerBook:

Better battey life
DVD-R
Nicer OS (IMO)
Lighter
Widescreen (rumored 15.4")
Keyboard lighting (hopefully)
$200 rebate on iPods
$100 rebate on HP printers
ATI vid card
Nicer screen (IMO)

It is hot (but not as hot as a Dell). Buy third party RAM cheaper. Buy AppleCare. With edu. discount, you can have a 10GB iPod for $69 after rebate. You can even get the discount from some Apple Stores if you can show proof that you're a student, and walk out that day with one.

Vs. Dell:

Uh... you can play more games.

mactastic
Jul 14, 2003, 07:53 PM
The battery life alone is worth it, I consistently get 3.5 - 5 hours of work out of one battery on my 1Ghz TiBook. People with comparable pc laptops get 2 - 2.5 hours.

illumin8
Jul 14, 2003, 09:55 PM
Originally posted by zuggerat
Dell 8500

2.4 Ghz Pentium 4m
1GB DDR RAM 266 Mhz
64 MB Nvidra GeForce 4 4200 Go 4X AGP
40 GB Harddrive
CD-RW/DVD-ROM
15" WSX+GA/WUGA
XP Pro

$2596 w/$350 mail rebate so it's really $2246
Hey, by all means, don't pay that much for the Dell. If you watch the deal websites you will see that deals come around quite frequently, as a matter of fact the Inspiron 8500 was featured just last week with an almost identical configuration for about $1100. I highly recommend this website: Got Apex (http://www.gotapex.com).

Check the website every day and I promise a great deal will come along on the 8500 every week or two.

zuggerat
Jul 14, 2003, 11:42 PM
thanx guys ive decided to wait until wednesday to see if apple releases the new PB and if not im gonna go w/ the titanium

ZildjianKX
Jul 15, 2003, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by zuggerat
thanx guys ive decided to wait until wednesday to see if apple releases the new PB and if not im gonna go w/ the titanium

Man, hold out as long as you can.. TiBook is 8 months old... :(

zuggerat
Jul 15, 2003, 10:26 AM
yeah i know it would be good to wait it out but i need a new computer for the fall (college) and ive been waiting since february already so im gettin antsy like Ho with a gun to her head

gopher
Jul 15, 2003, 04:51 PM
There is an old aphorism:
"A bird in hand is worth more than two in the bush." Waiting since February, you've lost 5 months of potentially productive working time on your machine. Why waste more? It isn't worth the wait.

As much as the rumor mongers on this board want you to believe another machine is just around the corner, that still is "in the bush." Get that bird in hand, and you'll be happy with it regardless. The machines will last, and are worth it no matter how fast the next new machine is. There will always be a faster machine down the road. But the question becomes will it save you the time you have lost waiting for it? I don't think so.

visor
Jul 15, 2003, 05:19 PM
Originally posted by zuggerat
is there a huge difference between the 867 and 1 ghz G4?...im thinkin no but lemme hear some stuff
the difference is mostly noise issues...

plutnicki
Jul 15, 2003, 05:24 PM
But specs-wise, the 867Mhz TiBook has 32MB of DDR video memory, the 1Ghz TiBook says 64MB. (this is from the apple store webpage).

On that alone, I'd get the 1Ghz, no?

...Jim

hvfsl
Jul 15, 2003, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by gopher
Simcity 4 runs just fine on my 800 Mhz iMac G4 no L3 cache, 768 MB of RAM and 32 MB of VRAM. The 15" Powerbook should be plenty fast enough for it being faster than my iMac.

But is it at Max settings and do you build big cities, my 2500XP PC starts to jerk a bit when I build very big cities and putt settings to max. The PB will run Sim City fine, but it will jerk a bit if you max out the settings (which was the question).

Any the new PBs are meant to be out in a few days at Jobs financial presentation. He has done it before at this events. The old 12in and 17in PBs are also sold out at most resalers.

gopher
Jul 15, 2003, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by hvfsl
But is it at Max settings and do you build big cities, my 2500XP PC starts to jerk a bit when I build very big cities and putt settings to max. The PB will run Sim City fine, but it will jerk a bit if you max out the settings (which was the question).

Any the new PBs are meant to be out in a few days at Jobs financial presentation. He has done it before at this events. The old 12in and 17in PBs are also sold out at most resalers.

Not sure about Max settings. I'm still getting used to the new controls.

fjs08
Jul 16, 2003, 07:32 AM
Mav451,

>>XP is only "bogged down" if you let it. I can send you the registry entry that basically disables all the bg services that most users do not need<<

While I'm debating on a PB or i-Book, I'm stuck with XP Home and it is so slowwwww. I'd love to get the entry's that will make it run a bit faster. I've gone to msconfig and have played with it, but I bet there is even more I can do.

Thanks. (Amazing-I get more XP help here than on the XP boards:)

Frank