Microsoft Office and Virtual PC

[MacRumors]

After Microsoft's acquisition (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/20030219155858.shtml) of Connectix, there have been user concerns regarding Microsoft's plans for the Virtual PC Emulation package, despite reassurances of ongoing development.

Reports indicate that beyond the current offerings of Virtual PC as a standalone package, Microsoft is also planning on bundling Virtual PC with Mac Microsoft Office to create a new Professional Office package. The standard (non-VPC) version of Office will continue to be made available and will see a price drop to make room for the new Professional suite. The introduction of a Student & Teacher version is also expected.

This reorganization will more closely mirror their Windows XP offerings (http://www.microsoft.com/office/howtobuy/choosing.asp) for Office which include Professional, Standard and Student & Teacher versions.

[stoid]

Will VPC still be available as a standalone package??

[astray]

This is a mixed blessing, firstly if they bundle it, then they are going to have to improve VP6, as office keeps getting more bloated and power hungry, so VPC is not dead.

But, as we move inline with the windows version, does that mean they will have the same UI and interface? Will it lose the interface guidelines and be come less OSX -ish and more XP-ish...

[Docrjm]

Just so long as M$ don't make the pro version XP and that you actually need VPC to utilize it.

[arn]

Originally posted by stoid
Will VPC still be available as a standalone package??

"Reports indicate that beyond the current offerings of Virtual PC as a standalone package, Microsoft is also planning..."

[bbanzai]

I wonder if this is the first step down the road toward bundling Windows versions of Office with Mac Virtual PC!

[mkaake]

Admin edit: In no way does this article imply what is written below. Please don't spread fud

wowsa. i just wrote my initial impression based on the tone of the article...

i guess thinking out loud isn't a good thing then...

for the record, read my post below...

[arn]

Originally posted by mkaake
yeah... almost sounds like they're gonna start making one version of office and expect us to use vpc to run it...


except that they aren't.

arn

[cubist]

I don't like the implication that "Professional" = "Windows".

Actually, though, I think if VPC were done better, so that it didn't run in a window but ran Windows apps so that they looked like any other windows, that could be a big improvement.

BTW, does anybody know how to copy from VPC and paste into a Mac application? I can't get it to work, and the manual says nothing about it.

[jaykk]

Admin edit: In no way does this article imply what is written below. Please don't spread fud

This is exactly what I feared. We will have to depend on VPC to run all M$ products ( and possibly Adobe's new products offerings), and there wont be any mac versions of softwares. So, both the #1 and #2 software makers are heading in the same direction. Hopefully VPC (if microsfot wont cripple it) and realpc will run faster on g5 machines.

[iLilana]

is VPC really necessary? I found it to be a waste of money.

[tny]

Wonder if this is MS's first step toward trying to market Windows for the Mac as an OS choice?

[Abstract]

@jaykk -- I think Arn just cleared that up for you. VPC isn't necessary to run all Microsoft products, such as Office.

I want a VPC alternative to come out. :o

[mkaake]

Originally posted by arn
except that they aren't.

arn

'almost'

: )

matt

p.s. even though that's the way it initially sounded, I don't think they're stupid enough to try it, unless they make vpc about 10 times faster than it's current itteration... and even then, I don't think they'd try it.

matt

[Freg3000]

I am so confused right now. :confused:

So is this good or bad? I know it isn't black and white, but, I mean, overall. I see this largely as a positive, because it basically confirms Microsoft still developing software for the Mac with VPC. But also it is bad because they might not make office for OS X anymore? Is that the gist of this?

[ Admin Edit: No. This is 100% wrong. See below. ]

[kenaustus]

I have to use VPC for one proprietary app and have found it very useful at times for other apps. The one feature I'm looking for (and probably won't get) is the ability for VPC to capture the card slot on my PB. I doubt if MS will be able to improve the performance of VPC as it really is a "virtual" computer I have just upgraded my PB from 512 to 1 Gig in order to allocate more memory to VPC when running - will also be very nice when working on pics in PS do I'm not too upset . . .

Adding VPC to the Mac Office makes sense for those users who work on both platforms and have a few Windows apps they would like to be able to use on the Mac.

While I'm no expert I have found that moving data (Office files) between the Mac and Win under VPC is simply a matter of dragging the file from one desktop to the other, then opening the app. I have also been able to drag Windows files downloaded from the Mac desktop to the VPC desktop, open them and use them in WIndows.

I'd rather be able to live without VPC, but it is useful for those of us that have to live in both worlds.

[MisterMe]

Originally posted by Macrumors
....

Reports indicate that beyond the current offerings of Virtual PC as a standalone package, Microsoft is also planning on bundling Virtual PC with Mac Microsoft Office to create a new Professional Office package. The standard (non-VPC) version of Office will continue to be made available and will see a price drop to make room for the new Professional suite. The introduction of a Student & Teacher version is also expected.

This reorganization will more closely mirror their Windows XP offerings (http://www.microsoft.com/office/howtobuy/choosing.asp) for Office which include Professional, Standard and Student & Teacher versions. For all the catawauling about killing VPC or Office:mac and forcing Office:mac users to run Office XP via VPC, a really big point has been missed. First off, Office for Windows is copy-protected via activation codes. Office:mac is not. I contend that it is not because Mac users won't tolerate it. The Student & Teacher version of Office for Windows is copy-protected by a "security device," to use M$'s term. I wonder if M$ will try the same scheme on the Mac version. If M$ can successfully sell copy-protection with its cheap version of Office, we will have entered a dangerous new world.

[JeffRutan]

I have MS Office X for my 1G PowerBook, as well as VPC 6. I found that MS Word 2000 under Windows 2000 under VPC runs more smoothly (even inside OS X.2) than the Mac OS native version of Word does! It looks like MS deliberately crippled Office X for the Mac! Office does look and feel nicer in OS X, but productivity with large complex documents is much better under VPC.

I would say that with Apple getting better at supporting MS networks, just let MS deliver all their monopolistic bloatware in WinTel format with bundled VPC. If they end up crippling VPC, then use Real PC or something else instead, and buy the MS OS separately. This will allow MS to focus their resources on one platform, and leave the MBU to focus exclusively on VPC optimization, refinement, and closer integration with Mac OS. Then we will not have to worry about the little incompatibilities between Mac and PC versions of Office, and we will have our favorite Mac OS with integrated Mac OS 9, X Windows, Linux, and MS Windows emulators as needed. When viruses and internal bugs eat up the MS Windows virtual machine, just nuke it with the quick install CD (Windows and Office in one shot), and keep going (keep all your data files in Mac OS shared folders). This will also leave the market more open for better office compatible products on Mac OS.

[arn]

Originally posted by Freg3000
But also it is bad because they might not make office for OS X anymore? Is that the gist of this?

I'm not sure why this is hard to grasp for people. Was my article that poorly written? This makes no implication regarding future software development of Office X.

Go to the store. Right now you can buy:

1) Virtual PC
2) Office X

Rumors state that when you go to the store in the the future, you might be able to buy

1) Virtual PC
2) Office X
3) Office X bundled with Virtual PC
4) Office X Student and Teacher

That is all.

arn

[robotrenegade]

WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO RUN XP. THATS WHY YOU GOT A MAC!!!! WHO CARES.

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by robotrenegade
WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO RUN XP. THATS WHY YOU GOT A MAC!!!! WHO CARES.

Because there are some programs that are PC only, like if you work with your buisness they might have a program that is nessary for your work, therefore you would need VPC.

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by arn
I'm not sure why this is hard to grasp for people. Was my article that poorly written? This makes no implication regarding future software development of Office X.



But look at Microsoft historically. This _does_ make an implication regarding their future development. If you can get the users to run Windows Office under VPC, where is the motivation to spend development dollars maintaining Office X?

Just b/c it doesn't have an affect right now doesn't mean it doesn't have an affect at all. Did anyone think Safari would lead to IE for Mac being discontinued?

At the same time, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will affect Office X. Obviously, more choice is better.

Since it could have either affect, what's the harm in discussing all the possibilities?

[Freg3000]

Oh God, sorry. I am way off. I understand now. I think the problem is not the way you wrote the article Arn, it is just that Mac Heads, myself included, jump to the worst conclusion when we see Microsoft because everyone thinks they are evil. I am quick to assume that any software move made by Microsoft in relation to the Mac platform is always going to be negative. I know this is wrong, but sometimes that emotion overrides even what we read.

Sorry to jump the gun there.

[jaykk]

sorry about my post earlier too, now its all clear.

[pcharles]

It would certainly make sense for Microsoft to do everything they can to promote a Virtual PC - based approach to life.

My feeling is that Microsoft should not care whether you run office on a Mac or a PC if you purchase Office and run their OS via Virtual PC. After all, it is still money in their pocket.

If Microsoft can get Virtual PC running in Mach-O we should see performance increases and a lot more people using it, which is a win-win situation for us and them.

[MhzDoesMatter]

Alright, listen. As far as I can tell you're looking at it sideways. Think different.

The rumor is stating that VPC would basically be another piece of the puzzle on the OfficeVx.3(?) Box. That is all. VPC would be like Access is for windows. Part of a larger suite. (Actually it will be just bundled, but I'm pushing a point)

The Office software that will be shipping will still be Office for X software at least for one more major revision. They are just including VPC in the suite.

Microsoft is also planning on bundling Virtual PC with Mac Microsoft Office to create a new Professional Office package.

-Hertz

[Aditya]

Originally posted by arn
I'm not sure why this is hard to grasp for people. Was my article that poorly written? This makes no implication regarding future software development of Office X.

Maybe Microsoft wants to develop VirtualMAC to run OS-X and MAC apps on Windows... :D !!!

[Nebrie]

So VPC for $100 more? Is Microsoft gonna bundle an OS or expect you to buy it on your own (or pirate from your Windows friend). Given their fight against Linux and piracy, it seems odd.

[heywhynots]

Well I for one think this is great at least in the short to intermediate term. VPC is going to continue to be made and updated. Office for OSX is going to have at least one more revision. Not only that the standard version of OfficeX is going to have a lower price. Right now if go to cdw (without any special discounts) these are the prices you can get for the various Office offerings:

Office XP Standard $369.64
(includes Word, Excel, Outlook and PowerPoint)
The Student/Teacher version is about 70%, so retails around $149.

Office XP Professional $459.47
(basically Office XP Standard with Access added)

OfficeX $459.77
(Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and Entourage).
The academic version on CDW is $188.19 (though you can get better deals if going through your school's CDW store).

Basically we Mac users are right now paying Professional Office prices while getting the Standard version. Microsoft is creating now a Professional Version (bundling VPC with Office) for a price of $499.00. Though I would say VPC adds more overall functionality to your computer than Access. Lowering the Standard Version to $399.00. Which is still more than the XP version but to be expected given the smaller market. The OfficeX individual academic price would come in line with its XP counterpart at $149.00.

Would MS make more money if they forced everyone to buy VPC in order to run Office? Probably not. Why because most Mac users don't want to run Windows, hence they use Macs. MS is about making money. MacOffice makes them loads of money. It also keeps OpenOffice from opening a beach-head in its fight against MS Office. Forcing VPC would probably cause them to make less money. OS X is a big enough market for them to make money, but small enough that it is not really a threat to Windows at this point and in the near future. Plus always nice to show to State AG that MS can play with others.

Sidenote about Safari, Apple developed it because well MS stopped improving IE on the Mac. IE development is stopped for Windows and the Mac because some form of Explorer is being intergrated into Windows like Apple has done with Safari.

[backspinner]

Office v.X Professional Edition will ship with the traditional suite of OS X applications — Word, Excel, PowerPoint and Entourage — as well as Virtual PC, which Microsoft acquired from Connectix Corporation in February. The company told dealers that the Professional Edition will ship with Version 6.1 of Virtual PC with Windows XP Professional. The new version will be priced at $499 with a $329 upgrade.

[synp]

Originally posted by robotrenegade
WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO RUN XP. THATS WHY YOU GOT A MAC!!!! WHO CARES.
I'd like to run Windows because[list=1]
I need Internet Exploder on Windows to access my bank's online banking site.
because I need MS-Word on Windows to create a Hebrew document. The one word processor for OSX that supports Hebrew cannot read and write Word files.
[/list=1]

[FriarTuck]

With a $149 pricetag and the right to load on up to 3 machines, MS Office X Student & Teacher edition seems like a pretty good deal to me. The S & T edition will be available to my household because my son is a 2nd grader. The current Academic version is not available to my household because my wife is no longer teaching and we have no college student living here.

MSFT would have none of my money if they stuck with their current pricing scheme. But now I will buy MS Office X S & T edition, and MSFT will have a hundred bucks from me they wouldn't have had otherwise.

At that price, stuff like Keynote ($99) is pricey by comparison. Appleworks seems a bit expensive at $79 when Office is available for $149.

MSFT is getting grief from Wall Street this week about not being a growth company anymore. This is one area they can grow.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by synp
...
because I need MS-Word on Windows to create a Hebrew document. The one word processor for OSX that supports Hebrew cannot read and write Word files.
...

Supposedly, the version of TextEdit included in Panther will address this.

It's really too bad the MacBU hasn't been able to implement better Unicode support in Office Mac.

[sparkleytone]

what is the deal with the people jumping up and down screaming bloody murder? in my eyes, m$ is making Office as a suite much more worth the money they charge for it. also, m$ are going out of their way to indicate that they are going to continue to support and develop VPC. releasing an Office suite means supporting it for at LEAST a year. there are many many good things to this news.

just because it is microsoft doesn't mean its automatically the freaking mac holocaust or something.

[rueyeet]

I think including VPC as a part of the Mac Office package for professionals just makes sense. Many people's workplace situations do force them to run that one PC app, so for them, it's a good thing. It isn't as if Microsoft is only letting you run Office through VPC....all of it still runs on Mac.

They don't mention pricing, though, and that's where things may get sticky. Given Microsoft's habit of selling the components of Office at such inflated prices that you're better off getting the whole suite, I can see them using that kind of a strategy to make sure that if you want VPC, you might as well buy Office. So many people want both, that the combination might lock out third-party solutions for either.

Now there's some classic Microsoft paranoia for you. ;)

[cgc]

Originally posted by Freg3000
I am so confused right now. :confused:

So is this good or bad? I know it isn't black and white, but, I mean, overall. I see this largely as a positive, because it basically confirms Microsoft still developing software for the Mac with VPC. But also it is bad because they might not make office for OS X anymore? Is that the gist of this?

[ Admin Edit: No. This is 100% wrong. See below. ]

This is a rumors site. Why is the admin editing people's messages? Does the admin know all? Stop editing, we can sort out fact from fiction.

[tny]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Supposedly, the version of TextEdit included in Panther will address this.

It's really too bad the MacBU hasn't been able to implement better Unicode support in Office Mac.

The problem is carbon. Mac v.X is carbon-based. Carbon uses ATSUI for Unicode. ATSUI has a reputation for being agonizingly slow, one that comes from the OS 8.6 days. Noone seems to want to implement Unicode support in Carbon apps. Nearly all the apps with decent Unicode support on the Mac are Cocoa apps (the obvious exception is Mozilla; I'm not sure whether one would consider Safari a Cocoa or a Carbon app ...).

[zamyatin]

So, they're working on their pricing. I'm sure that OpenOffice has helped to encourage that!

Still, all considered, I'd rather use OpenOffice for free than pay hundreds of dollars for MS Office. As OpenOffice continues to improve at breakneck pace, I'm certain that more and more Mac users will feel the same way.

www.openoffice.org

[aafuss1]

I wonder when the Mac VPC gets rebranded for Microsoft-eg. copyrights,support info are changed, the windows version of vpc would also be rebranded unbder the microdoft nsme.

[blueBomber]

Originally posted by zamyatin
So, they're working on their pricing. I'm sure that OpenOffice has helped to encourage that!

Still, all considered, I'd rather use OpenOffice for free than pay hundreds of dollars for MS Office. As OpenOffice continues to improve at breakneck pace, I'm certain that more and more Mac users will feel the same way.

www.openoffice.org

While I also feel as much pride being an open-source advocate as well as a mac user, openoffice for osX still has a ways to go. I think once the installation is simplified (think lowest common denominator) and aqua is applied, it will be quite a formidable app

[Abstract]

Originally posted by cgc
This is a rumors site. Why is the admin editing people's messages? Does the admin know all? Stop editing, we can sort out fact from fiction.

When 5 people walk out of here with a misinterpretation, things need to be done. People will read these incorrect rumour interpretations made by other members of this board, and mention the misinformation to others. Obviously, these people are simply reading Arn's article wrong, so he is editing to prevent people from getting the wrong idea from the misinterpretations made by people in this thread.

So personally, I think it was necessary. Whether this is just a rumour or not, nobody should incorrectly pick up a rumour from this thread. I think Arn's article was clear, but obviously it's not for some people.

PS: And how is OpenOffice? Is it good? Sorry, I"ve never tried it. I have always stuck with Word. It does everything I want, but I want to know if OpenOffice is worth looking at. Or even Star Office or other programs.

Arn, Arn, we love you. Don't go. Please love us back!! PLEASE LOVE ME BACK!!!

[Nermal]

Originally posted by Nebrie
So VPC for $100 more? Is Microsoft gonna bundle an OS or expect you to buy it on your own (or pirate from your Windows friend). Given their fight against Linux and piracy, it seems odd.

As pointed out a couple of posts below yours, it comes with XP Pro. From the article:

"The company told dealers that the Professional Edition will ship with Version 6.1 of Virtual PC with Windows XP Professional. The new version will be priced at $499 with a $329 upgrade."

[cgmpowers]

Sometimes Mac Users can be a bit 'reactionary'. We're all needing to take a few steps back and read & maybe absorb before we pounce to comment on things.

I didn't read the article completely but gathered what Arn was saying right away...and besides, its common sense.. M$ wants to sell their software--they don't want to shelve it... M$ Office makes money and there's abviously a market for VPC..

Christopher


Originally posted by arn
I'm not sure why this is hard to grasp for people. Was my article that poorly written? This makes no implication regarding future software development of Office X.

Go to the store. Right now you can buy:

1) Virtual PC
2) Office X

Rumors state that when you go to the store in the the future, you might be able to buy

1) Virtual PC
2) Office X
3) Office X bundled with Virtual PC
4) Office X Student and Teacher

That is all.

arn

[blueBomber]

Originally posted by Abstract

PS: And how is OpenOffice? Is it good? Sorry, I"ve never tried it. I have always stuck with Word. It does everything I want, but I want to know if OpenOffice is worth looking at. Or even Star Office or other programs.


It is a completly viable alternative to MS. I haven't ever had any outstanding issues with it (it reads and writes my Word files perfectly), but I haven't messed around with all of the apps to their fullest. The best I can say is give it a try, but be prepared to look at an ugly interface (no aqua)

[Nermal]

Originally posted by Abstract
PS: And how is OpenOffice? Is it good? Sorry, I"ve never tried it. I have always stuck with Word. It does everything I want, but I want to know if OpenOffice is worth looking at. Or even Star Office or other programs.

Someone's already answered about OpenOffice, but I'm just adding that StarOffice and OpenOffice are virtually the same program. I'm not sure if StarOffice is available for Mac though.

[rotorblade]

Did anyone think Safari would lead to IE for Mac being discontinued?

It was the other way around.

Microsoft made it clear some time ago that their intentions were for more integration of their browser into the OS and to move away from the stand alone browser model altogether. Safari was the answer to a problem that Apple saw coming for some time, which was the demise of IE as we know it.

[WM.]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
But look at Microsoft historically. This _does_ make an implication regarding their future development. If you can get the users to run Windows Office under VPC, where is the motivation to spend development dollars maintaining Office X?

Just b/c it doesn't have an affect right now doesn't mean it doesn't have an affect at all. Did anyone think Safari would lead to IE for Mac being discontinued?

At the same time, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will affect Office X. Obviously, more choice is better.

Since it could have either affect, what's the harm in discussing all the possibilities?
*sigh*

The harm is that bundling VPC and Office.X does *not* imply that Microsoft is going to try to "get the users to run Windows Office under VPC" (your words). And all this discussion about it may lead people to think that it does. The only "implication regarding their future development" is that they will continue to develop both applications.

HTH
WM

[solvs]

It's not the wording of the article Arn, it's all about M$.

I too find it funny that when they release new products and lower their prices, everyone starts panicking. Even if M$ is evil incarnate.

As others have stated, Office for Mac makes money. Discontinuing it would be bad for business, and look really bad to the Gov. (not that they would do much about it). IE didn't, and Safari came about because of IE being halted, not the other way around.

I'm sure Apple has something in the works in case M$ stops office development, and even with litigation, somebody will make a VPC like product. Like a Lindows-type product. Though I can see M$ wanting to continue VPC. You would be buying Windows with Apple machines. It would be good for them.

Of course, if it was too fast, as already pointed out many times, nobody would make software for OS X. That would be bad (like OS/2... What's OS 2? Exactly). They wouldn't make it too fast, though. When have they ever made something too fast?

This seems like a good thing for now, but we'll see. I wouldn't put it past them to try to pull something. This is M$ we're talking about.

On a side note, I was playing with VPC XP in the Apple Store, and it kept crashing. And was slow, even on a Dual 1.25 G4. And sucked. I hate Windows. F***in' M$.

-

Typed on a crappy Win2000 machine, soon to be upgraded to a new Mac.

[macnews]

I'm just waiting for the company (can't remember if it was a Macrumors story) that is making a software package that will run on ANY chip. It isn't an emulator but actually compiles programs on the fly so in theory you could take office for windoz and run it on a mac at close to full speed. Right now they say they are at 70% of native system performance.

[Nermal]

I'm half expecting Virtual PC (not 6.1 but maybe 7.0) to be bundled with Windows XP, but not regular XP but a special version that's been compiled for PowerPC. I'm just guessing here, but would it be fair to assume that a lot of the OS just needs a recompile? I understand that some parts won't simply recompile across, but the emulation in VPC should be able to take care of this. So basically we'd end up with a "semi-native" version of XP, with emulation for the bits that don't run natively. Many Windows apps call various APIs in Windows, and provided these APIs are compiled for PPC we should get a great speed increase across the entire PC (OS and apps). This is all just a wild guess though :D

[Trimix]

Originally posted by cgc
This is a rumors site. Why is the admin editing people's messages? Does the admin know all? Stop editing, we can sort out fact from fiction.

I would strongly agree with cgc - Arn's message was clear, but some people went on the 'mac holocaust m$ bandwaggon' and just went wayyyyy overboard. However it makes for fascinating reading and why not ? Thus cgc is right -

ref the subject we are discussing I like it - more choice, lower prices, what is wrong with that ?

[mclosers]

When will Office for the Mac mirror office for the PC. This is Especially important for students. I'm a business major and the classes are taught in access and it is very annoying to have to run it in Virtual pc.

What ever happened to Real PC and the faster than a "real" PC thing?

[giffut]

FWB is preparing it´s relaunch of RealPC aka PowerWindows, which should hit the floors in the upcoming weeks/two months. You might remember the struggle they had over copyright of the term "windows" with Microsoft recently whic caused some delay for them.

http://www.fwb.com/html/realpc.html

The new RealPC for OSX is supposed to make direct use of all the hardware of the host, including 3D graphics etc.pp. The direct hardware access, which seroiusly lacks within VPC, should make it a killer app, together with the new G5, if likely they are optimizing it in that way and therefore it´s still on its way.

The PowerPC family (G3/4/5) is very competitive when doing calculation within VPC. That´s one of the reasons that e.g. within Windows XP if you call "sysinfo" in my case (iBook 500), you get sth. like a Pentium 500Mhz equivalent as host processor. The simulation of calculation is not the biggest problem, but the simulation of graphic rendering causes the most speed loss. But due to the design flaws of VPC, graphics are a crawl and eat more than 60& of the resources of the host. If that changes (like e.g. direct access to graphic cards, 3D acceleration etc.), you should have a boost which comes close to getting around 75% to 90% of the simulated system.

G.

[pretentious]

Even though it's under the same name Microsoft, MacBU has to OEM each version of Windows, just like when it was sold thru Connectix. So selling VPC in a bundled set allows them to sale this software cheaper than selling in a stand alone set.

This is great news it means that you can get better priceing Mac:Office

[kanaka]

Originally posted by FriarTuck

At that price, stuff like Keynote ($99) is pricey by comparison. Appleworks seems a bit expensive at $79 when Office is available for $149.

But $149 is the student price... the student price of Appleworks is $39. Appleworks is in desperate need of some updating, but I still wouldn't use office if MS paid me :)

[solvs]

Originally posted by kanaka
But $149 is the student price... the student price of Appleworks is $39. Appleworks is in desperate need of some updating, but I still wouldn't use office if MS paid me :)

Only to teachers and college students. He's saying that Office is $149 to grade school kids as well (which I was not aware of). AW is free to e/iMac/Book buyers though.

But yes, AW desperately needs updating. Though, I doubt they will unless they have to.

BTW, RealPC is vaporware at this point. We're still waiting.

[MisterMe]

Originally posted by giffut
FWB is preparing it´s relaunch of RealPC aka PowerWindows, which should hit the floors in the upcoming weeks/two months. You might remember the struggle they had over copyright of the term "windows" with Microsoft recently whic caused some delay for them.RealPC and PowerWindows are two different products. RealPC is FWB's x86-based computer emulator. It is intended to run any operating system and software for x86-based computers. It is direct competion for Virtual PC. PowerWindows is the new name for SoftWindows, FWB's Windows emulator. My understanding is that it contains the same emulator engine as RPC, but that it optimizes Windows by making mapping Windows system calls into MacOS X system calls.Originally posted by giffut
The new RealPC for OSX is supposed to make direct use of all the hardware of the host, including 3D graphics etc.pp. The direct hardware access, which seroiusly lacks within VPC, should make it a killer app, together with the new G5, if likely they are optimizing it in that way and therefore it´s still on its way.Understand this well. MacOS X is a preemptive multitasking multiuser operating system built on the Mach kernel. VirtualPC, PowerWindows, and RealPC are applications. Applications cannot get direct access to the hardware. Claims that an application will gain a performance boost by direct hardware access under MacOS X are bunk.

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by WM.
*sigh*

The harm is that bundling VPC and Office.X does *not* imply that Microsoft is going to try to "get the users to run Windows Office under VPC" (your words). And all this discussion about it may lead people to think that it does. The only "implication regarding their future development" is that they will continue to develop both applications.


But that's simply untrue. If they didn't want the users to do it, they wouldn't sell it!

You might be absolutely correct. But at the same time, you might be completely wrong. Why is everyone so adamant about ignoring the possible implications?

[arn]

Originally posted by cgc
This is a rumors site. Why is the admin editing people's messages? Does the admin know all? Stop editing, we can sort out fact from fiction.

Yes, this is a rumors site... but there is an interest in spreading rumors that are more true than false.

No content was edited. Strong corrections were simply added.

And I don't think (some) people could sort out fact from fiction. There were clearly people who believed that Microsoft was killing Mac Office and simply bundling VPC with Office XP. Which is, of course, wrong.

And I certainly don't want to be responsible for that sort of misinformation.

arn

[WM.]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
But that's simply untrue. If they didn't want the users to do it, they wouldn't sell it!

Sorry to take so long to reply--I had to work all day yesterday.

You use the word "it" twice, and it seems to refer to a different thing each time, and I'm not sure what those two things are. What doesn't Microsoft not want users to do? (OK, double negative, I know.) And what are they selling that indicates that they don't not want users to do that?

TIA
WM

[mkaake]

Originally posted by arn
Yes, this is a rumors site... but there is an interest in spreading rumors that are more true than false.

No content was edited. Strong corrections were simply added.

And I don't think (some) people could sort out fact from fiction. There were clearly people who believed that Microsoft was killing Mac Office and simply bundling VPC with Office XP. Which is, of course, wrong.

And I certainly don't want to be responsible for that sort of misinformation.

arn

good call - i mean, there are people who can't even read a joke w/o thinking people are serious, so how much more so when we (read: I) speculate something that wasn't true (and yes, i was one of the first people who misread the post). arn done good by making sure we knew what was actually going on - otherwise i would still be speculating (although i know it would neverhappen) that they were going to dump mac development - and good golly, there are just some people around who have zero common sense... they'd still be talking about it two years from now...

matt

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by WM.
Sorry to take so long to reply--I had to work all day yesterday.

You use the word "it" twice, and it seems to refer to a different thing each time, and I'm not sure what those two things are. What doesn't Microsoft not want users to do? (OK, double negative, I know.) And what are they selling that indicates that they don't not want users to do that?


If they didn't want users running Office for Windows under Virtual PC, they wouldn't start selling a bundle that included Virtual PC and Office for Windows.

[WM.]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
If they didn't want users running Office for Windows under Virtual PC, they wouldn't start selling a bundle that included Virtual PC and Office for Windows.
Which is why they're NOT "selling a bundle that includes Virtual PC and Office for Windows."

It's VPC and Office.X, which is Office for Mac OS X.

Dig?

WM

[cgc]

Originally posted by arn
Yes, this is a rumors site... but there is an interest in spreading rumors that are more true than false.

No content was edited. Strong corrections were simply added.

And I don't think (some) people could sort out fact from fiction. There were clearly people who believed that Microsoft was killing Mac Office and simply bundling VPC with Office XP. Which is, of course, wrong.

And I certainly don't want to be responsible for that sort of misinformation.

arn

I don't see why anyone could be held responsible for someone's misinterpretation of something. It is the same as gunmakers being responsible for the irresponsible use of guns.

I believe, with your logic, that EVERY rumor must then be closely monitored and explained/corrected because within each thread will be someone who just doesn't get it.

Remember, rumors are just that. They are not to be taken seriously and those who do that are fools.

[kenaustus]

I am a amall, one man company that needs VPC for one proprietary Windows app. I was able to justify switching to a Mac PB last year ONLY because VPC was available. Otherwise I would only be able to drool at the 15" while orering another ThinkPad.

The new package for Office that includes VPC will be very nice for Mac lovers working in somewhat larger companies - they can now argue that their PB (or G5 PM) can handle the Win apps and (by using Safari) can avoid a lot of the problems, such as the virus of the week. While this won't have much of a chance in big companies it is a viable approach in companies where the boss at least knows your face.

The task now is to start preparing youir arguments, including TCO!