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View Full Version : Vote scandal. If true, this is bigger than Watergate


Pinto
Jul 16, 2003, 03:16 AM
Apparently electronic voting results database can easily be hacked into and modified.

And it may have been designed that way on purpose.

These people claim to have hacked it!

Link (http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/HL0307/S00065.htm)

Believable? You decide.

patrick0brien
Jul 16, 2003, 11:06 AM
-Pinto

It's supposed to be based on windows - e.g. incredibly hackable.

I'll stick to paper.

Pinto
Jul 16, 2003, 04:12 PM
Yes, you'd think you would choose a secure system for such important data.

pseudobrit
Jul 16, 2003, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by Pinto
Yes, you'd think you would choose a secure system for such important data.

Well, the Dept. of Fatherland Security chose MS, so it's obvious the government's concern is with security.

tpjunkie
Jul 17, 2003, 03:09 PM
Did you see the article today about the latest windows security flaw? it affects windows server 2003, the supposedly secure new OS from M$.

patrick0brien
Jul 17, 2003, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by tpjunkie
Did you see the article today about the latest windows security flaw?

-tpjunkie

...the day after the Homeland announcement? Yes, I did. The timing is quite curious....

CubaMark
Jul 18, 2003, 11:34 PM
What is truly sad is how willing Americans were to allow the theft of the election to go unchallenged. I mean, really! The State Department is always yammering on about how undemocratic the rest of the world is, while the Thief in Chief was a guy appointed by the Supreme Court after his brother and a bunch of other Republican cronies fixed the election results.

The several thousand black voters who were prohibited from voting in the Florida election because Kathy & Jeb decided to designate them as "felons" (and thus be ineligible to vote) was occasionally mentioned in the press, but didn't seem to bother anyone. As I recall from a BBC story, one of the "felons" was the Chief Electoral Officer for one of the voting districts!

Hypocrisy is alive and well in America....

CM

zimv20
Jul 18, 2003, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by CubaMark


i guess you didn't hear: after being sworn in, bush declared that the country had moved on. :rolleyes:

macfan
Jul 18, 2003, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by CubaMark
What is truly sad is how willing Americans were to allow the theft of the election to go unchallenged. I mean, really! The State Department is always yammering on about how undemocratic the rest of the world is, while the Thief in Chief was a guy appointed by the Supreme Court after his brother and a bunch of other Republican cronies fixed the election results.

The several thousand black voters who were prohibited from voting in the Florida election because Kathy & Jeb decided to designate them as "felons" (and thus be ineligible to vote) was occasionally mentioned in the press, but didn't seem to bother anyone. As I recall from a BBC story, one of the "felons" was the Chief Electoral Officer for one of the voting districts!

Hypocrisy is alive and well in America....

CM

The election was not stolen. It was a close election that was decided under our constitution and laws. You don't have to like them or think they are the best to recognize that they were followed.

If you followed the aftermath, you know that Bush would have won Florida and the election even if Gore had been given everything he wanted by the courts. The country has moved on, as well it should.

patrick0brien
Jul 19, 2003, 12:12 AM
-Folks

Can we not rehash this? Macfan is right, that part of history is that, history.

As for the topic...

pseudobrit
Jul 19, 2003, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by macfan
If you followed the aftermath, you know that Bush would have won Florida and the election even if Gore had been given everything he wanted by the courts. The country has moved on, as well it should.

But if they just threw out the (unquestionably) illegal absentee ballots, Gore would have won by a very wide margin.

zimv20
Jul 19, 2003, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-Folks

Can we not rehash this? Macfan is right, that part of history is that, history.


twice before, for macfan's information, i've posted the findings of a large consortium of news agencies who published a large post-election analysis.

in some scenarios, bush won. in others, gore. it's not at all cut and dry that bush won, as macfan claims.

further, their analysis left out HUGE numbers of discounted votes which, according to statistical analysis, would have put gore far ahead.

though bush (and macfan) claim "the country has moved on," i don't think it's necessarily true.

again, we have the argument that "the ends justify the means." even if bush would have eventually won fair and square, it doesn't excuse the GOPs strong-armed tactics before, during and after the campaign.

mactastic
Jul 19, 2003, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by zimv20
i guess you didn't hear: after being sworn in, bush declared that the country had moved on. :rolleyes:

He's also declared that the whole flap over what is affectionately becoming known as Nigergate is also over.

macfan
Jul 19, 2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by zimv20
twice before, for macfan's information, i've posted the findings of a large consortium of news agencies who published a large post-election analysis.

in some scenarios, bush won. in others, gore. it's not at all cut and dry that bush won, as macfan claims.

further, their analysis left out HUGE numbers of discounted votes which, according to statistical analysis, would have put gore far ahead.

though bush (and macfan) claim "the country has moved on," i don't think it's necessarily true.

again, we have the argument that "the ends justify the means." even if bush would have eventually won fair and square, it doesn't excuse the GOPs strong-armed tactics before, during and after the campaign.

Yes, there were possible scenarios where Gore could have won, but none of them that involved what he was asking for from the courts. It is cut and dried that Bush won as evidenced by his presence in the White House today. It is also evident that the Florida legislature was going to step in and carry out their right to send electors for Bush if the recount was incomplete or still tied up in the courts.

Again, the country has moved on. That issue is just not top of mind for the vast majority of Americans.

mactastic
Jul 19, 2003, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by macfan
Again, the country has moved on. That issue is just not top of mind for the vast majority of Americans.

Well, you are right about this for sure. Top issues in '04 will likely include intelligence snafu's, unemployment levels, homeland (in)security, deficits, economic doldrums, and what to do about the situation in Iraq. But don't think the democratic base will forget the voting irregularities, they will use it as a rallying cry.

patrick0brien
Jul 19, 2003, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by zimv20
twice before, for macfan's information, i've posted the findings of a large consortium of news agencies who published a large post-election analysis.

-zimv20

I agree that the whole thing is nebulous and depatable - we are doing it here after all :D

Bush can say "let's put it behind us" as much as he wants, but that holds no water in the big picture.

What ended the discussion years ago was the Supreme Court ruling. The ump has spoken, there is no appeal, there is no rehashing, they are the highest court in the land.

Now, it's possible to argue that the Supreme court was biased this, and biased that, but it's irrelevant in the eyes of the law - the voting fraud discussion is still just as dead.

And unless we all become supreme court justices, and we do it ourselves (and if we did so, and it was political, we'd deserve to be strung up by our fingernails), there is no way to change that decision.

Yes we should rememebr 2000 as a lesson of history, but revisionist history is a waste of time and energy, the law has spoken, the argument is over. This thread should now be turned over to it's rightful subject - future prevention of what happened in 2000 using eletronice voting with Windows systems.

zimv20
Jul 24, 2003, 11:37 AM
the NYT has an article (http://www.nytimes.com/2003/07/24/technology/24VOTE.html?ex=1060021783&ei=1&en=e9da90268a049263) on the s/w flaws

Sayhey
Jul 24, 2003, 12:53 PM
Before the country "moves on" maybe we should make sure the 2000 fiasco doesn't happen again. This is not just the rehashing of the Florida election, but the quite important task of making sure everyone's vote is counted properly. Democracy kinda seems hollow if we don't count every vote.

Myself, I won't move on until we get rid of the Electoral College system. There is no reason a vote cast in Wyoming should count for more than mine in San Francisco or the "winner" of an election recieve fewer votes than the "loser."

patrick0brien
Jul 24, 2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Sayhey
...get rid of the Electoral College system

-Hear, hear.

SPG
Jul 24, 2003, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by macfan
Again, the country has moved on. That issue is just not top of mind for the vast majority of Americans.

Speak for yourself.
http://www.gregpalast.com/columns.cfm?subject_id=1&subject_name=Theft%20of%20Presidency