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MacRumors
Jul 3, 2007, 11:04 AM
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Despite a wide range of claims from analysts about the iPhone's sales on opening weekend, the most official word comes from AT&T's spokesman Mark Siegel (http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyid=2007-07-03T121205Z_01_N02367996_RTRUKOC_0_US-IPHONE-ATT-ACTIVATION.xml) who indicates that the iPhone sales on opening weekend were more than they'd sold in the first month of any other wireless device in AT&T's history.

AT&T also notes that the iPhone activation problems should be entirely resolved at this time, though the EDGE network appears to have had a temporary outage (http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,134121-c,wireless/article.html) yesterday.

Meanwhile, as of last night, Apple's retail inventory tool (http://www.apple.com/retail/iphone/) revealed that iPhones were sold out in 95/164 Apple retail stores. There's no way to determine if this is simply due to high demand or some combination of low supply... but early online Apple Store orders for the iPhone will start shipping on July 6th (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2007/07/02/online-apple-store-iphone-orders-shipping-july-6th/), rather than the 2-4 week time frame originally cited.

Finally, we'd previously noted (http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/2007/06/30/apple-now-owns-iphone-com/) that Apple had obtained ownership of the iPhone.com (http://www.iphone.com) domain name, but a new report (http://blog.domaintools.com/2007/07/iphone-now-owned-by-apple/) confirms that the domain was indeed sold to Apple.

Apple has owned the iPhone.org (http://www.iphone.org) domain name since December 1999, and triggered the initial speculation that Apple was looking to create a mobile phone. The ownership of iPhone.com, however, has remained in the hands of a 3rd party until this past week.



princealfie
Jul 3, 2007, 11:05 AM
750000 units is quite high still... I still am puzzled where they got that from?

arn
Jul 3, 2007, 11:07 AM
750000 units is quite high still... I still am puzzled where they got that from?

All the analyst numbers are just made up guestimates.

arn

maxp1
Jul 3, 2007, 11:10 AM
Does anyone know the total number shipped to stores so far?

p0intblank
Jul 3, 2007, 11:10 AM
Awesome news! It looks like the iPhone sold better than many expected over the weekend. I can't wait to see what sales are like around the holidays. :D

FJ218700
Jul 3, 2007, 11:14 AM
even with a conservative estimate of 250,000 units sold so far, that's a profit of around $68 million U.S.

Very nice.

Queso
Jul 3, 2007, 11:18 AM
The market obviously likes it. AAPL up 5%.

robbieduncan
Jul 3, 2007, 11:24 AM
even with a conservative estimate of 250,000 units sold so far, that's a profit of around $68 million U.S.

Very nice.

Subtract at least $200MM for R&D, development costs, certification costs, advertising, OK scratch the 200, make that 500 and there are still a ton of phones to sell to break even!

FJ218700
Jul 3, 2007, 11:28 AM
yeah, profit was the wrong word.

still impressive though

Object-X
Jul 3, 2007, 11:31 AM
If you look at the stores that have sold out, most are located in heavy population density areas.

The bigger question is when will they be resupplied? And will the popularity of the iPhone keep inventories low?

Peace
Jul 3, 2007, 11:31 AM
This is probably inaccurate but like I said the other night.When I spoke to an AT&T Rep about my activation she told me they were trying to activate 1,000,000 iPhones and that the process would take a while.
I know that figure is much higher than the speculators but that's what I was told.Probably just a figure of speech I guess.

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 3, 2007, 11:35 AM
All the analyst numbers are just made up guestimates.

arn

i agree, but i'm making 5 bucks a share today! keep on guessin high analysts..!!!

Subtract at least $200MM for R&D, development costs, certification costs, advertising, OK scratch the 200, make that 500 and there are still a ton of phones to sell to break even!


read my quote... then realize that they just broke even and made a hefty profit this weekend... dont forget they get a percentage of everyone's phone bill... apple is rich as a mofo

lOUDsCREAMEr
Jul 3, 2007, 11:41 AM
my guesstimate: 1 million by tomorrow ;)
the holy NYC 5th ave flagship is already showing a cherry dot :)

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1280/706964534_257205ab16_o.jpg

Rojo
Jul 3, 2007, 11:43 AM
750000 units is quite high still... I still am puzzled where they got that from?

Which analyst is saying 750000? I can't find it... :confused:

Maccus Aurelius
Jul 3, 2007, 11:46 AM
Very well done...now let's see how many of these customers actually keep their iPhone.

nagromme
Jul 3, 2007, 11:49 AM
So, how many RAZRs sold in the first month? We can estimate that the iPhone has sold more than that.

djstarrock
Jul 3, 2007, 11:54 AM
Very well done...now let's see how many of these customers actually keep their iPhone.
Still money in Apple pockets.

ImAlwaysRight
Jul 3, 2007, 11:59 AM
If we don't slow down to less than 2 iPhone articles per day, I think I will go out and hang myself.

Maccus Aurelius
Jul 3, 2007, 12:01 PM
Still money in Apple pockets.

This is true. I simply meant that I hope that the iPhone is actually a device that is not just a "wow" for now machine, but a good overall long termer. If not, this can bode ill for the device, even if Apple makes lots of cheddar for now.

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 3, 2007, 12:06 PM
Which analyst is saying 750000? I can't find it... :confused:

goldman sachs estimates btwn 500-750k sold

nagromme
Jul 3, 2007, 12:08 PM
If we don't slow down to less than 2 iPhone articles per day, I think I will go out and hang myself.

Unlikely, since the iPhone is a) BIG news, b) CURRENT news, and c) relevant to the Mac platform.

But here's a life-saving tip: watch for the word "iPhone" in headlines and don't click those stories :)

50548
Jul 3, 2007, 12:12 PM
750000 units is quite high still... I still am puzzled where they got that from?

They got that from Apple's genius in creating unbelievable products...the iPhone is gonna be the MOST successful product in the history of phones...Apple simply BLEW away all estimates.

All smartphone competitors are marching towards bankruptcy now...it's just amazing what Apple can do...and this ONLY in the US.

Move over, iPod!

Rojo
Jul 3, 2007, 12:17 PM
This is true. I simply meant that I hope that the iPhone is actually a device that is not just a "wow" for now machine, but a good overall long termer. If not, this can bode ill for the device, even if Apple makes lots of cheddar for now.

Oh the iPhone is definitely more than a "wow" for now machine. It's going to be around for quite some times -- and while everyone might not want one now, they definitely will in the next few years. Everything that's holding people back now (price, capacity, speed, etc.) will be solved in future versions. Even the fact that it's locked to one network will eventually change (although people will have to wait a little bit longer for that one).

The iPhone is eventually going to get to the point where it doesn't make sense why you would choose any other phone. Just like where the iPod is right now for digital music players...

megfilmworks
Jul 3, 2007, 12:17 PM
They got that from Apple's genius in creating unbelievable products...the iPhone is gonna be the MOST successful product in the history of phones...Apple simply BLEW away all estimates.

All smartphone competitors are marching towards bankruptcy now...it's just amazing what Apple can do...and this ONLY in the US.

Move over, iPod!

And for every early adopter there are 10-20 people ready to buy in the next quarter! This is a groundbreaking paradigm shift.

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 3, 2007, 12:19 PM
And for every early adopter there are 10-20 people ready to buy in the next quarter! This is a groundbreaking paradigm shift.

hmm... i never even thought about it that way... brilliant!

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 3, 2007, 12:21 PM
So, how many RAZRs sold in the first month? We can estimate that the iPhone has sold more than that.

razrs... prolly 7,000... cuz they were very expensive when they first came out... iphone?? um prolly a million in a month...

nagromme
Jul 3, 2007, 12:39 PM
razrs... prolly 7,000... cuz they were very expensive when they first came out... iphone?? um prolly a million in a month...

The RAZR apparently holds the previous record for highest monthly sales, so that's the record I'm wondering about. Maybe that was after it got cheaper?

Then again, the RAZR did cost about the same as an iPhone.

Project
Jul 3, 2007, 12:51 PM
RAZR took a while for sales to take off.

Do we know how many iPhones the big flagship stores each received?

pieman02
Jul 3, 2007, 12:53 PM
Right now it isn't practical for me to own an iPhone (as much as I want one!), especially cause I am a college student and just bought a MBP :)

But like someone else said, for every person buying one now, there are those waiting for reviews, different revs, and people like me that are set on getting one but in about a year when I can afford it ;)

I am still impressed with the $60 voice and data plans, because that is only $20 more than I pay for my dumb cell phone plan as it is, and I think this is what helped a lot sales happen - the cheap plan.

Agathon
Jul 3, 2007, 12:53 PM
And for every early adopter there are 10-20 people ready to buy in the next quarter! This is a groundbreaking paradigm shift.

Yes. Apple well on its way to dominating smart phone sales, just as they dominate music player sales.

The smell of fear pervades the entire internet.

nateDEEZY
Jul 3, 2007, 01:04 PM
Yes. Apple well on its way to dominating smart phone sales, just as they dominate music player sales.

The smell of fear pervades the entire internet.

It's amazing, now asia is trailing our technology. In the past, we've always been a few years behind in regards to cell phone technology.

princealfie
Jul 3, 2007, 01:10 PM
It's amazing, now asia is trailing our technology. In the past, we've always been a few years behind in regards to cell phone technology.

Yes, we will pawn Asia someday :D :apple:
but not with M$, only Apple rules!

inkswamp
Jul 3, 2007, 01:12 PM
If we don't slow down to less than 2 iPhone articles per day, I think I will go out and hang myself.

I've said this several times on these forums already but I'm surprised people (especially on this site) aren't catching on to this point. This "phone" Apple is selling is just a scaled back portable computer that happens to be able to make phone calls and emulate an iPod. And since it's running OS X, it is, for all intents and purposes, a Mac. Don't let the name fool you. If you're a Mac fan, you should be hanging on for every iPhone story. Personally, I'm most interested in how many non-Mac owners are buying these things. It's a trojan horse for getting OS X into people's lives--including people who have never bought Macs before.

Secondly, for those of you debating the profits vs. R&D, remember that much of what's going on with the iPhone is being spun off to and from other Apple technologies (OS X, iPod, etc.) That wholly estimated $200M R&D budget you're all wondering about should be cut up between several different, major projects at Apple, so the iPhone doesn't have to make all that back before it's a profitable venture.

Project
Jul 3, 2007, 01:23 PM
I've said this several times on these forums already but I'm surprised people (especially on this site) aren't catching on to this point. This "phone" Apple is selling is just a scaled back portable computer that happens to be able to make phone calls and emulate an iPod. And since it's running OS X, it is, for all intents and purposes, a Mac. Don't let the name fool you. If you're a Mac fan, you should be hanging on for every iPhone story. Personally, I'm most interested in how many non-Mac owners are buying these things. It's a trojan horse for getting OS X into people's lives--including people who have never bought Macs before.

Secondly, for those of you debating the profits vs. R&D, remember that much of what's going on with the iPhone is being spun off to and from other Apple technologies (OS X, iPod, etc.) That wholly estimated $200M R&D budget you're all wondering about should be cut up between several different, major projects at Apple, so the iPhone doesn't have to make all that back before it's a profitable venture.


Completely agree. iPhone is Newton 2. A UMPC. A Tablet. I cant stress how important it is.

BlueT
Jul 3, 2007, 01:36 PM
It's amazing, now asia is trailing our technology. In the past, we've always been a few years behind in regards to cell phone technology.

The iPhone, except for the touchscreen, is a knockoff of years old Asian technology. There is nothing even remotely "revolutionary" about the phone, except the touch screen. Now, there was nothing revolutionary about the 1G iPod either. So there's that.

But, unlike the iPod, the iPhone requires a two year, $60/month contract. So it won't "take off" like the iPod. There is hope that Apple comes out with several models of iPhone (like the iPod and Macs). But until that happens, all everyone is really doing right now is reveling in the "blown smoke up the ass" that Apple has created with the marketing of this product. I played with it; it's cool. But the bottom line is that the average cell phone costs between Free-$100. People don't pay $600 for phones. Especially ones that offer extremely limited capability (8 GB? Come on. The Nano has had that for almost a year now and memory prices are plummeting.)

Maccus Aurelius
Jul 3, 2007, 01:41 PM
Why are people complaining about iPhone articles on a Mac rumor site? This is probably one of the most significant jumps for Apple since the Intel shift, it must be covered. This device could change portable computing altogether for Apple, and people think this is a bad thing?

Oh the iPhone is definitely more than a "wow" for now machine. It's going to be around for quite some times -- and while everyone might not want one now, they definitely will in the next few years. Everything that's holding people back now (price, capacity, speed, etc.) will be solved in future versions. Even the fact that it's locked to one network will eventually change (although people will have to wait a little bit longer for that one).

The iPhone is eventually going to get to the point where it doesn't make sense why you would choose any other phone. Just like where the iPod is right now for digital music players...

Well, I'm sure the folks at Apple are pretty psyched about the success of the iPhone's launch, unlike the rather subdued AppleTV debut, which then faded into the background after a few days of hack threads and add-on announcements.

But, eventually, if Apple is going to appeal to a wider market, it'll have to create lower end models with smaller form factors to appeal to those that want a slick phone that eats up little pocket space, like the nano to the iPod.

50548
Jul 3, 2007, 01:52 PM
The iPhone, except for the touchscreen, is a knockoff of years old Asian technology. There is nothing even remotely "revolutionary" about the phone, except the touch screen. Now, there was nothing revolutionary about the 1G iPod either. So there's that.

But, unlike the iPod, the iPhone requires a two year, $60/month contract. So it won't "take off" like the iPod. There is hope that Apple comes out with several models of iPhone (like the iPod and Macs). But until that happens, all everyone is really doing right now is reveling in the "blown smoke up the ass" that Apple has created with the marketing of this product. I played with it; it's cool. But the bottom line is that the average cell phone costs between Free-$100. People don't pay $600 for phones. Especially ones that offer extremely limited capability (8 GB? Come on. The Nano has had that for almost a year now and memory prices are plummeting.)

Your criticism is as moot as any criticism presented against the iPod and the Mac. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the UI is ALL.

And this includes not only the MOST advanced touchscreen on the planet, but also the most gorgeous graphics and the best OS out there. This alone is worth the price of an iPhone...this device is the next revolution for Apple. And that's why it's gonna sell like bananas, be it 60 or 600 bucks.

BlueT
Jul 3, 2007, 02:05 PM
Your criticism is as moot as any criticism presented against the iPod and the Mac. Sorry to burst your bubble, but the UI is ALL.

And this includes not only the MOST advanced touchscreen on the planet, but also the most gorgeous graphics and the best OS out there. This alone is worth the price of an iPhone...

First of all, do you know what "moot" means? It means inconsequential. And the iPhone has been out for 4 days. So to suggest that my comments at this stage of the game are already inconsequential show a severe lacking of foresight on your part. Or, to dumb it down a little, quit drinking the Kool-Aid for a split second to realize that there have been many, many Apple failures. (BTW, calling it Newton-2 is freaking hilarious in that maybe it will fail just as badly as its predecessor. Normally, if I release a product that bellyflops, I try not to bring back memories of it.)

And I agree that the OS is critical to the phone. You know what happened to Apple's stock after it announced that the phone would not be open to third party development? It tanked (as much as it could, given the hysteria at that point). Paying $600 right now for a phone that has no real innovation except the touchscreen doesn't make any sense. It doesn't offer anything new. Which is precisely why either Apple is going to have to push through some major new software releases for the phone really quick, or risk losing the hype it created. Early adopters and Mac Kool-Aid drinkers buy anything. That's not Apple's target audience. Middle America is Apple's target with this phone, and so far, it's too early to tell if this phone will take hold. And if the phone's capabilities don't ramp up soon, people will keep doing what they do now: buy an iPod and a crappy phone made by the countless number of phone manufacturers that offer reasonably priced phones.

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 3, 2007, 02:21 PM
I've said this several times on these forums already but I'm surprised people (especially on this site) aren't catching on to this point. This "phone" Apple is selling is just a scaled back portable computer that happens to be able to make phone calls and emulate an iPod. And since it's running OS X, it is, for all intents and purposes, a Mac. Don't let the name fool you. If you're a Mac fan, you should be hanging on for every iPhone story. Personally, I'm most interested in how many non-Mac owners are buying these things. It's a trojan horse for getting OS X into people's lives--including people who have never bought Macs before.

Secondly, for those of you debating the profits vs. R&D, remember that much of what's going on with the iPhone is being spun off to and from other Apple technologies (OS X, iPod, etc.) That wholly estimated $200M R&D budget you're all wondering about should be cut up between several different, major projects at Apple, so the iPhone doesn't have to make all that back before it's a profitable venture.

i completely agree! in march or so, i plan to buy my first mac laptop in 4 years, all thanks to my awesome iPhone :)

First of all, do you know what "moot" means? It means inconsequential. And the iPhone has been out for 4 days. So to suggest that my comments at this stage of the game are already inconsequential show a severe lacking of foresight on your part. Or, to dumb it down a little, quit drinking the Kool-Aid for a split second to realize that there have been many, many Apple failures. (BTW, calling it Newton-2 is freaking hilarious in that maybe it will fail just as badly as its predecessor. Normally, if I release a product that bellyflops, I try not to bring back memories of it.)

And I agree that the OS is critical to the phone. You know what happened to Apple's stock after it announced that the phone would not be open to third party development? It tanked (as much as it could, given the hysteria at that point). Paying $600 right now for a phone that has no real innovation except the touchscreen doesn't make any sense. It doesn't offer anything new. Which is precisely why either Apple is going to have to push through some major new software releases for the phone really quick, or risk losing the hype it created. Early adopters and Mac Kool-Aid drinkers buy anything. That's not Apple's target audience. Middle America is Apple's target with this phone, and so far, it's too early to tell if this phone will take hold. And if the phone's capabilities don't ramp up soon, people will keep doing what they do now: buy an iPod and a crappy phone made by the countless number of phone manufacturers that offer reasonably priced phones.

first of all, did you check the stock today? up nearly 6 bucks... and i just made over 800 dollars in one day thanks to that stock... also, how bout you actually own an iphone or use one for more than 30 mins then you can make an honest opinion. these iphone bashers are all the same... they've just never used one and they feel righteous to bash it.

Maccus Aurelius
Jul 3, 2007, 02:42 PM
I must admit, I'll probably never own an iPhone (too much phone for my minimal requirements/too expensive) but it's one dandy doohickey. After trying other smartphones out there, I'd have to say that Apple is on to something, as a great deal of those other phones out there are pretty much key-messed globs of plastic by comparison, even if for now have more useful functions. Hopefully this changes soon.

Fwink!
Jul 3, 2007, 02:44 PM
I'm guessing 100K - 300k phones actually sold.

On "p" day all the apple stores had stock at the end of the day. Sure the AT&T stores sold out, but they all had just 40-60 phones.

Be aware that phones delivered to stores, are not phones sold.

Apple has put off a "massive victory" banner on it;s site for a reason, they are waiting to numbers to be spectacular. IF they had sole 500K phones, THEY would be saying so themselves.

It's tiring to see all you Apple apologists unable to accept that the iPhone is vasty overpriced, and beyond the budget of most.

nagromme
Jul 3, 2007, 02:55 PM
And since it's running OS X, it is, for all intents and purposes, a Mac. Don't let the name fool you. If you're a Mac fan, you should be hanging on for every iPhone story. Personally, I'm most interested in how many non-Mac owners are buying these things. It's a trojan horse for getting OS X into people's lives--including people who have never bought Macs before.\

I noticed people playing with iPhones (highly impressed of course) and mentioning that they never used "a Mac" before but it was pretty easy. Non-Mac people are already thinking of the iPhone as an example of using a Mac. (Which in many ways it is.) That can't hurt Mac sales!


I'm guessing 100K - 300k phones actually sold....

It's tiring to see all you Apple apologists unable to accept that the iPhone is vasty overpriced, and beyond the budget of most.

That's some quality, original trolling :p And if the iPhone is vastly overpriced, all those other phones (like Motorola Q) that cost even MORE after 2 years must be outrageously overpriced! :) "Cheap" phones shave off some initial cost and slap it back on every month. And consumers have done that math.

Then look at the phones (like Nokia N95) that cost $700-$1100 :eek: And they don't even have the big screen, long battery life, thin form, and mass storage of an iPhone. So what's a GPS worth to you? :)

jane doe
Jul 3, 2007, 03:18 PM
Yes and Apple also owns mammals.org :)

megfilmworks
Jul 3, 2007, 03:58 PM
Overpriced?
My f#$%@ RAZR was overpriced at 500+.
I am a demanding early adopter and I am blown away by this "phone"

As for the comment about old technology..
Its not the guts, its the form.
And as always the software interface.
Plus the chance to own a dream from Steve Jobs, a gifted future thinker and his team at Apple.

JonboyDC
Jul 3, 2007, 04:25 PM
The iPhone, except for the touchscreen, is a knockoff of years old Asian technology. There is nothing even remotely "revolutionary" about the phone, except the touch screen. Now, there was nothing revolutionary about the 1G iPod either. So there's that.
As others have noted, technology is more than just hardware -- it's also software and user interface. And the UI on the iPhone is truly revolutionary -- Apple has created a touchscreen interface that, within a very short time of starting to use it, feels completely natural. And it's unlike any computer interface I've ever encountered. That's what really blows away every person who sees my phone.

JNB
Jul 3, 2007, 04:34 PM
As one reviewer so succinctly noted, it's more than the sum of its functions. That's where the FUDders don't--and never will--get it. They look at a feature set like a bunch of Marketing 101 zombies, and why they'll continue to think that all the MS, Moto, Sony, and other manufacturers are "innovating" through feature bloat (coupled with truly vile design).

Personally, I think we should start a PayPal fund to buy one for Ballmer. The man needs serious inspiration.

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 3, 2007, 04:35 PM
As others have noted, technology is more than just hardware -- it's also software and user interface. And the UI on the iPhone is truly revolutionary -- Apple has created a touchscreen interface that, within a very short time of starting to use it, feels completely natural. And it's unlike any computer interface I've ever encountered. That's what really blows away every person who sees my phone.

Agreed, i cant stand trolling sometimes...

twoodcc
Jul 3, 2007, 04:46 PM
good news then. they sold tons....and apple's stock went up almost $6

ksjcorpus
Jul 3, 2007, 04:49 PM
over the weekend i would have agreed with you but there's clearly a ground-swell how middle america is reacting to the product. you're right there's nothing superbly cutting edge except for the touch screen but ..... here's the big but ..... the common everyday person can now have a smart phone with push email, the internet on wifi and a media player. the iphone wasn't meant to compete with the blackberry as much as for all those razr that people generally hate. 50 million razrs have been sold and apart from the iphone there's no other game in town. blue have you even seen an N95?

Rocketman
Jul 3, 2007, 05:14 PM
I've said this several times on these forums already but I'm surprised people (especially on this site) aren't catching on to this point. This "phone" Apple is selling is just a scaled back portable computer that happens to be able to make phone calls and emulate an iPod. And since it's running OS X, it is, for all intents and purposes, a Mac. Don't let the name fool you. If you're a Mac fan, you should be hanging on for every iPhone story. Personally, I'm most interested in how many non-Mac owners are buying these things. It's a trojan horse for getting OS X into people's lives--including people who have never bought Macs before.

Secondly, for those of you debating the profits vs. R&D, remember that much of what's going on with the iPhone is being spun off to and from other Apple technologies (OS X, iPod, etc.) That wholly estimated $200M R&D budget you're all wondering about should be cut up between several different, major projects at Apple, so the iPhone doesn't have to make all that back before it's a profitable venture.

I couldn't agree more. In fact I posted that months ago.

Rocketman

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=277584
#23
and others before

BlueT
Jul 3, 2007, 05:27 PM
over the weekend i would have agreed with you but there's clearly a ground-swell how middle america is reacting to the product. you're right there's nothing superbly cutting edge except for the touch screen but ..... here's the big but ..... the common everyday person can now have a smart phone with push email, the internet on wifi and a media player. the iphone wasn't meant to compete with the blackberry as much as for all those razr that people generally hate. 50 million razrs have been sold and apart from the iphone there's no other game in town. blue have you even seen an N95?

The "razr that people generally hate"? That's why it was the most popular and best selling phone by far in the past few years? Why it sold over 60 million across the world? Jeez. I wish I could sell a product that people "hated" as much as the RAZR. I'd be richer than Jobs.

Common everyday people don't pay $600 for phones. Period. The only reason that dvd players became so popular was because you could pick them up for $40 bucks at Wal-Mart. Otherwise, we'd still be using VHS. Same as CD players. Same with cellular phones. $600 is a ridiculous sum of money for an average American (who doesn't make much more adjusted for inflation than an American 30 years ago). The only difference is purchasing power. Now you can buy a whole lot of ****, cheap.

The RAZR really took off when cell providers offered heavy subsidies on the phone and MOT started to pump them out ridiculously. And guess what happened? MOT is now losing money on the RAZR because it costs too much to make. Apple won't allow that. And it's precisely because they're offering such an exorbitant price on the iPhone that other manufacturers (like Nokia and MOT) think that they can provide better phones for a cheaper price. And the N95 is a good start. N95 has removable media, 3G, 5 megapixel camera, Symbian S60 (which has so many developers it's ridiculous), GPS, and a variety of other perks.

I'm not of the belief that the iPhone will flop. But I think that it's completely overpriced for the limited amount of features it offers. Bring down the price to $450 (8G) and I think you have the best phone on the market, bar none. Allow more dynamic programming capabilities (like writable docs and excel spreadsheets and 3rd party programming), 3G, more "killer apps" and suddenly $600 is a bargain. People are calling it a mini-mac. Except that it's not there, yet. It could be, sure...but you'd think that will all the time they had, the company would offer more "computer-like" functionality, like access to the memory as a storage drive, etc.

Raidersmojo
Jul 3, 2007, 05:54 PM
The iPhone, except for the touchscreen, is a knockoff of years old Asian technology. There is nothing even remotely "revolutionary" about the phone, except the touch screen

or mobile internet which is the FULL internet and not a scaled down version. or a simple to use OS you can fly through on a phone.

But, unlike the iPod, the iPhone requires a two year, $60/month contract. So it won't "take off" like the iPod

yeah it won't "take off" it only broke AT&T sales record for number of phones sold in a month (and apple did it in a weekend)

so it probably won't take off since they sold...I don't know....500-750 k iphones

all everyone is really doing right now is reveling in the "blown smoke up the ass" that Apple has created with the marketing of this product. I played with it; it's cool. But the bottom line is that the average cell phone costs between Free-$100. People don't pay $600 for phones

what "smoke has been blown up our ass"? that apple made a cool product that has nothing alike it and has competitors running around trying to come out with something similiar?

and you right no one pays 600 for a cell phone...they sold over 500,000....so thats 500,000+ people that would

and people paid 500 when the razr first came out and that thing is a piece.

yeah and you can get the "free" cell phone thats either crippled by a company, breaks within a few weeks, has a crappy UI, crappy MP3 player, and probably crappy video play back...not to mention a crappy camera.

you pay 600 dollars and you get 600 dollars worth of technology.

Common everyday people don't pay $600 for phones. Period. The only reason that dvd players became so popular was because you could pick them up for $40 bucks at Wal-Mart. Otherwise, we'd still be using VHS

like I said earlier looks like 500,000+ people did...so kinda screws your argument of "no one would"

and DVD became so popular because its simply A LOT better than VHS. it holds more content, easy to store,doesn't take up space. people still bought 200-400 dollar DVD players


I'm not of the belief that the iPhone will flop. But I think that it's completely overpriced for the limited amount of features it offers. Bring down the price to $450 (8G) and I think you have the best phone on the market, bar none.

umm they already have the best phone on the market...name another phone that sells more in a weekend than any handset for a cell phone company

Raidersmojo
Jul 3, 2007, 06:03 PM
It's tiring to see all you Apple apologists unable to accept that the iPhone is vasty overpriced, and beyond the budget of most.


how is the iphone over priced? your paying for a cell phone, mobile internet (real mobile internet) and a ipod, plus a place to put all of your photos.

and if you couldn't save 20 dollars a week since the announcment of the iphone for 6 months and save for it

you don't deserve one. if you know how to "budget your money" you would easily be able to afford one

I'm in college and I bought one first day. its called "being smart" with your money

also now that they sold 500,000+ phones I wonder what other cell phone companies are doing right now

besides kicking themselves for not giving into apples demands...especially if the phone keeps selling (which it will its one weekend)

everyones expectations are so high "If they didn't sell out of every iphone everywhere its not good"

I went into best buy today to buy a external HD, pulled out my iphone to talk to my dad to see which one he bought and the best buy rep came over and talked to me about the iphone. I let him play with it and he said afterwords "I have to buy one of these this is the coolest device" after my mom saw it and google maps she said "I think I need to get one of those" and my step dad wants one too, they plan on picking them up when the nextel contract expires.

when people see this phone and how it works they want it. they can't stop playing with it, asking you questions about it.

oh I also told the best buy rep it was 600 dollars and he said "I don't care thats more than worth the money"

EagerDragon
Jul 3, 2007, 06:51 PM
The iPhone, except for the touchscreen, is a knockoff of years old Asian technology. There is nothing even remotely "revolutionary" about the phone, except the touch screen. Now, there was nothing revolutionary about the 1G iPod either. So there's that.

But, unlike the iPod, the iPhone requires a two year, $60/month contract. So it won't "take off" like the iPod. There is hope that Apple comes out with several models of iPhone (like the iPod and Macs). But until that happens, all everyone is really doing right now is reveling in the "blown smoke up the ass" that Apple has created with the marketing of this product. I played with it; it's cool. But the bottom line is that the average cell phone costs between Free-$100. People don't pay $600 for phones. Especially ones that offer extremely limited capability (8 GB? Come on. The Nano has had that for almost a year now and memory prices are plummeting.)

Based on what I seen so far a lot of people are willing to pay $600 for a phone plus the data plan and the minutes plan. As to the memory space..... A lot of more expensive phones have a lot less memory.

I do not own one, only because I am broke and the wife quit her job leaving a single income, otherwise I would have purchased 3 phones, one for my kid, one for the wife and one for me.
That is like 2000 to shell out. The phone provides integration of services using an interface that is very easy to learn and obvious. Unlike most other smart phones.

Adamo
Jul 4, 2007, 06:32 AM
Oh the iPhone is definitely more than a "wow" for now machine. It's going to be around for quite some times -- and while everyone might not want one now, they definitely will in the next few years. Everything that's holding people back now (price, capacity, speed, etc.) will be solved in future versions. Even the fact that it's locked to one network will eventually change (although people will have to wait a little bit longer for that one).

The iPhone is eventually going to get to the point where it doesn't make sense why you would choose any other phone. Just like where the iPod is right now for digital music players...
I want one but can't have one because I live in the UK. :p

zgh1999
Jul 4, 2007, 06:58 AM
I don't think the iPhone is overpriced at all. Overpriced according to who?

The initial estimates of the cost of manufacturing the iPhone and the cost of the hardware are $250-260.

But the iPhone is much more than hardware -- it is software too. In fact, I would argue that it is the iPhone's software and gui and user interface that make it a truly revolutionary product.

How much would you value the price of the software of the iPhone? Well, the market clearly has spoken, in a very big way -- it bought close to a million iPhones at $499 and $599 in a few days.

So, it is clearly not overpriced, according to the market.

Rocketman
Jul 4, 2007, 08:56 AM
I just checked Apple's inventory tool for the states of California, Nevada and Arizona. There are no iPhones remaining in the south western states.

Oregon does have some.

The sellout was complete at Apple and AT&T stores. One wonders if the AT&T claim rumor of 600,000 activations is true, and if this represents a presage of a long wait while China makes more for U.S. consumers overburdoned with excessive cash.

Rocketman

newstudentut
Jul 4, 2007, 04:07 PM
Remember that success isn't measured by how many copies you sell during the opening weekend; true success comes from being able to maintain sales during an extended period of time.

Just look at the movie industry. How many movies open in the 30million+ dollar range every weekend? At least one during a normal weekend. However, how many end up making over 100+? Very few! Why? Because they are not able to attract crowds for more than one or two weekends.

The iPhone might have sold 500,000+ during the first week, and that's probably because of many mac fans that like the technology developed by the company. However, we need to wait and see how non-mac fans react to the product and how many 'every-day' people are willing to buy a $600 cellphone.

Prez1082
Jul 4, 2007, 08:29 PM
As of 9:25pm EST, only 3 apple stores had inventory left according to their inventory checker...I'd say it's a success.

Romanesq
Jul 4, 2007, 08:45 PM
We now live in iPhone Nation. The whole country is sold out of iPhones in less than a week from introduction. There may be a couple of 4GBs on the shelf in Pittsburgh, but that's it.

Everything else is gone!!! :p

Yeah, I'm sure Apple's supply chain is going on all cylinders trying to get more stock out to all the stores. WoW, just WoW!

More product apparently is also moving later this week via web orders. It's going to be real interesting when the confirmed data comes out. :apple:

ksjcorpus
Jul 4, 2007, 09:28 PM
i know what you're thinking that 500k phones is a far cry from 50 million and that half a million in the first week was a given because of all the apple faithfulls that'll buy anything. but seriously you're sooooo off base with what this product is ... it's not about more apps and more developers. it has the killer app ... push email for normal people that right now are carying a razr around with them. blue 150 million americans have an email address and less than 10 million of them can access that email on the fly. that's the point, period. ok and then you throw in the best media player and put it all in a phone and then you start to appreciate what the iphone is. also blue your statement about the razr is a non-sequitor -- just because 50 million have been sold it certainly doesn't mean that it's a great product and everyone loves theirs ..... why don't you ask someone who has one if they like their phone; you'll be surprised what you learn when you listen rather than talk. and then your statement that at 450 it would be the best phone in the world but at 599 it's worthless. tell me it's not important for you to be analytical in your day job.

BlueT
Jul 5, 2007, 09:31 PM
So much great material to choose from to blast, but I decided that perhaps I should be nice. The RAZR selling over 60 million is proof that it's a popular phone that people like. It's not like there's a shortage of competition (Nokia and Samsung, for example). MOT scored big, primarily because they brought the price point down to a reasonable level (as I tried to explain before). Sure, the phone originally sold for $500. But how many of the 60 million actually PAID that price? It was subsidized ridiculously and still is.

Opening weekend numbers are irrelevant. Why? Because no one in their right might (Balmer aside) thought that the iPhone would flop on the opening weekend. I certainly didn't. Apple (I think) has sold over 100 million iPods. Only 1% of its base had to buy an iPhone to blast ATT's record books for most popular phone ever. And of course the iPhone would do well; it's little/big brother, the iPod, is one of the most popular electronic devices, ever. But, again, the iPhone is a long term experiment. ATT has widely been criticized (prior to the announcement of the iPhone) as being an inferior carrier with lousy customer service who simply bought its customers. Cingular bought ATT Wireless. ATT is about to buy Dobson Communications. So for the iPhone to be popular, it has to overcome that negative and convince people not only to pay $600, but to also switch to ATT. Not easy.

And I've used the phone. For half an hour. Which is more than enough time to test out the sounds, the capabilities, and the UI. You don't need to buy one to understand the phone's functionality. Read a few reviews; test out the features for yourself; draw conclusions. It's not rocket science. How many people actually used it for 30 minutes before buying it on opening weekend? My guess...not many. Guess what that means? The people that bought it were going to buy it no matter what. Whether it sucked, or was fantastic. Again...Apple developed a strong user base that are also early adopters. Great. But that doesn't mean anything for the future...yet. It's a good omen, but it's certainly not a definitive sign of the product's success.

And one last comment, since I can't really resist. A lot of people can't afford to save $20/week for 30 weeks to pay for the phone. Again, primarily because middle america has a couple of kids, a mortgage, a car payment or two, credit card bills, and, you know, real life expenses that get in the way of buying expensive toys. If you can't understand that, you really don't understand what it's like to be working poor. Now, I could get into a whole lot of economic and social data that suggests that the normal American is getting poorer as time passes (especially as health care costs, gas prices, and food prices rise), or you could just wake up and realize that normal people don't pay $600 for phones.

stagi
Jul 5, 2007, 11:40 PM
Looks like most of the NY stores have stock now (for tomorrow morning at least) but CA is still sold out!

California
Jul 6, 2007, 03:49 AM
First of all, do you know what "moot" means? It means inconsequential. And the iPhone has been out for 4 days. So to suggest that my comments at this stage of the game are already inconsequential show a severe lacking of foresight on your part.

That's not what moot means. W/out looking it up, moot is a legal term describing that your point is dead or meaningless to the argument. But I wouldn't say your points are moot. I would say they are inconsequential. You don't get what the iPhone really means for the computer world. Don't worry. You will.

Paying $600 right now for a phone that has no real innovation except the touchscreen doesn't make any sense. It doesn't offer anything new. Which is precisely why either Apple is going to have to push through some major new software releases for the phone really quick, or risk losing the hype it created. Early adopters and Mac Kool-Aid drinkers buy anything. That's not Apple's target audience. Middle America is Apple's target with this phone, and so far, it's too early to tell if this phone will take hold. And if the phone's capabilities don't ramp up soon, people will keep doing what they do now: buy an iPod and a crappy phone made by the countless number of phone manufacturers that offer reasonably priced phones.

Sounds like sour grapes to me. If you don't have the $600 dollars to plunk down, you want everyone else to feel bad for buying the next big thing in technology? The UI kicks butt. This is a computer, kid. Not a phone. Figure it out. It has sold ONE MILLION UNITS in one week. Middle America is getting it. You aren't

Your rant sounds like those Microsoft trolls at MSNBC who wrote an article today about one dead iPhone (that was quickly exchanged) and the Microsoft lawyer who now wants to sue Apple because the battery is inside the iPhone (after trying to sue Apple when the Nano screens scratched too easily... please) and the Microsoft backed Universal music people who are all panicking that the iPhone is going to lose them and there Evilsoft products money. (Universal music had a moneymaking deal on every Zune sold by Microsoft... not too bright were they?) I'm not accusing you of being a troll, rather someone who just doesn't understand what the iPhone really means. It's okay. You'll get it when in the next six months every other phone (ZunePhone anyone?) manufacturer comes out with their crappy version of an iPhone.

Just look at the movie industry. How many movies open in the 30million+ dollar range every weekend? At least one during a normal weekend. However, how many end up making over 100+?

Apple has already won and the movie blockbuster analogy doesn't work because you don't use a movie as a functional tool 24 hours a day. The movie opening weekend argument holds some water in that it is a predictor of future business. Not moot points, just inconsequential again.

I'm not of the belief that the iPhone will flop. But I think that it's completely overpriced for the limited amount of features it offers. Bring down the price to $450 (8G) and I think you have the best phone on the market, bar none. Allow more dynamic programming capabilities (like writable docs and excel spreadsheets and 3rd party programming), 3G, more "killer apps" and suddenly $600 is a bargain.

Cut rate prices on the RAZR were for a cut rate product.

Excellence is always a bargain. This is why one million iPhones have already been sold.

ksjcorpus
Jul 6, 2007, 09:18 AM
there's that brillant logic ... ok you can't have it both ways and say that the razr is a great phone because they've sold 60 million of them and then turn around and admit that the reason they did it was because they were subsidized. i'll make it easy for you: it's either a great phone and they sold 60 million at full price or it's a crapy phone and the carriers subsidized them to now where they're practically free. blue pick between the two. ummmmm as for middle america getting more poor ....... read a little instead of writing so much; middle america isn't getting more poor, it's just that the rich are getting richer faster. the two lines on a graph are still rising but one has a steeper curve. hey as for the att having a sucky service .... i agree. i think there's a gsm static in these iphones.

BlueT
Jul 6, 2007, 10:58 AM
It's odd that you guys just make up things that "I said", just to have something to argue about. I never said that the RAZR was a "great" phone; I said that it was a popular phone that people liked. I've owned the RAZR; it sucked. And when it was introduced years ago, it was a great phone [emphasis on "was", when the phone was first introduced, because it really was a technological game changer]. But as time passed, technology got better and the RAZR became a commodity, as opposed to being a quality phone. That's not really the point, though. I never said that it was great; and the reason why it was subsidized was because it was popular and carriers knew that they could attract more customers by offering a popular phone that people could afford.

As far as not being able to afford the iPhone, that's a pretty cheap rhetorical tactic. My bankroll has no affect on my argument (because I'm not even a Middle American). I do, however, have a sound education in the economics of middle america.

Anyway, no one really seems to be making any substantial arguments against me; ya'll are satisfied in just calling me poor, a bad analyst, and blind to the iPhone's opening weekend, all of which I think i refuted already. There'll be other threads; hopefully with more sound arguments than "LOLZ U R SO POOR U CAN"T AFFORD IT"

[Just wanted to add that I think part of the reason why the iPod is so popular now is because they lowered the prices significantly since the first time they sold it, and offered cheaper options like the Nano and Shuffle, which allow for many more people to be able to afford it. You'd think that these points are obvious, but it feels like no one remembers this.]

newstudentut
Jul 6, 2007, 11:39 AM
[QUOTE=California;3881123]

Apple has already won and the movie blockbuster analogy doesn't work because you don't use a movie as a functional tool 24 hours a day. The movie opening weekend argument holds some water in that it is a predictor of future business. Not moot points, just inconsequential again.

[QUOTE]

How isn't the movie blockbuster analogy valid ?

It applies almost to every single new item that comes out in the market. PSP3? It soldout everywhere during the opening weekend, but it was not able to stay hot in the market. On the other hand, Nintendo Wii sold out during opening, and it is still hard to find. We need to see and wait how the iPhone does during the upcoming months. We cant say it was a success or failure yet.

cliffjumper68
Jul 6, 2007, 11:55 AM
Overpriced?
My f#$%@ RAZR was overpriced at 500+.
I am a demanding early adopter and I am blown away by this "phone"

As for the comment about old technology..
Its not the guts, its the form.
And as always the software interface.
Plus the chance to own a dream from Steve Jobs, a gifted future thinker and his team at Apple.

Couldn't say it better its about the experience!

cliffjumper68
Jul 6, 2007, 11:57 AM
That's not what moot means. W/out looking it up, moot is a legal term describing that your point is dead or meaningless to the argument. But I wouldn't say your points are moot. I would say they are inconsequential. You don't get what the iPhone really means for the computer world. Don't worry. You will.



Sounds like sour grapes to me. If you don't have the $600 dollars to plunk down, you want everyone else to feel bad for buying the next big thing in technology? The UI kicks butt. This is a computer, kid. Not a phone. Figure it out. It has sold ONE MILLION UNITS in one week. Middle America is getting it. You aren't

Your rant sounds like those Microsoft trolls at MSNBC who wrote an article today about one dead iPhone (that was quickly exchanged) and the Microsoft lawyer who now wants to sue Apple because the battery is inside the iPhone (after trying to sue Apple when the Nano screens scratched too easily... please) and the Microsoft backed Universal music people who are all panicking that the iPhone is going to lose them and there Evilsoft products money. (Universal music had a moneymaking deal on every Zune sold by Microsoft... not too bright were they?) I'm not accusing you of being a troll, rather someone who just doesn't understand what the iPhone really means. It's okay. You'll get it when in the next six months every other phone (ZunePhone anyone?) manufacturer comes out with their crappy version of an iPhone.



Apple has already won and the movie blockbuster analogy doesn't work because you don't use a movie as a functional tool 24 hours a day. The movie opening weekend argument holds some water in that it is a predictor of future business. Not moot points, just inconsequential again.



Cut rate prices on the RAZR were for a cut rate product.

Excellence is always a bargain. This is why one million iPhones have already been sold.
Razor was not a cut rate product, it became an icon. The subsidized cuts to the cost of the phone created a devaluing of the design, but it is still the most widely sold 3g phone in the world. I think Steve was smart in rejecting subsidies on the iphone, the value perception will stay higher.

jelloshotsrule
Jul 6, 2007, 12:27 PM
blue- i think you make some sound points, and some assumptions. you assume (seemingly) that the phone won't come down in price, have cheaper options, etc... but as you said, the ipod eventually did and that seemed to help the popularity of it substantially. at the time it came out, the ipod was "overpriced" and eventually it took hold and took off. so it's not impossible the iphone will do the same.

i got one and am happy with it. i see it as both a great device for now but also a good sign of things to come. i think the main thing i like about it as an evolution of phone technology is that it puts more emphasis on software than hardware (to some extent) which can be upgraded more easily.

just my thoughts