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holy MAC!
Jul 17, 2003, 02:00 PM
i was just watching the macworld SF stream and i noticed that jobs said, "we are not leaving the titanium powerbook"....

this got me thinking.

would you guys buy a new Titanium powerbook, if it has all the same exterior features, except with bluetooth builtin, airport extreme, DDr ram?

personally, i definitely would....

i dont' care about a backlit keyboard, and i don't care about titanium or aluminum.... they are both gorgeous. i don't use firewire 800... and i dont' see myself using it....

the 17 inch would have a bigger screen, firewire 800, and backlit screen to separate itself from the 15 inch, but the 15 inch would have the l3 cache, the ram capability, and the better video card compared to the 12 inch.....

what do you all think?

trebblekicked
Jul 17, 2003, 02:11 PM
if keeping the ti-enclosure would keep the price point where it is, i think the answer is yes. the paint problems are anoying and they do need to resolve the airport antenna issue. if they fix these performance bugs, use the same keyboard as the 12" PB, and include the features you mention (bluetooth, AE, DDR) who really cares what metal the exterior is made of? if apple can, they should keep a 15" Combo model at $2000.00.

fjs08
Jul 17, 2003, 02:12 PM
Hi,

If I read the prices right, currently you can get a 14" i-book for around $ 1500 and a PB for about $ 2500 or there abouts. For "hobby" (I really like that term <g>)computing, I can't see it being worth the extra grand-my own opinion!

Frank

Rezet
Jul 17, 2003, 02:20 PM
Holy Mac, What exactly are you implying?
Are you trying to justify the purchase of current outdated 15" notebook?

I could care less if it's TI or AL case. I don't see what exactly it changes. AL is a cheaper material though.
Backlit keyb. is very nice. I'd sure like that.
Fire wire 800? For me it is useless. WHy in the world would u need that? MOst devices still work with USB 1.1. Firewire 800 is not needed yet I think.
I'd like 3 USB 2.0 USBS, 2 Firewire 400.
10/100 is also enough for me. Don't know what I'd need Gigabit for.
BUt what I really need is: 1.25 G4 processor. DDR 2100 Memory
And faster FSB.
Everything else that is currently in 15" PB is fine for me.

jxyama
Jul 17, 2003, 02:34 PM
Rezet said it right. i don't think many of us really care what the case is made of. because of the 12/17 introduction, the word "Al" has basically become synonymous with all the improvements (DDR RAM, new hinge design, AE antenna improvement, keyboard, etc, etc.) and not just the enclosure material.

MacBoyX
Jul 17, 2003, 04:28 PM
Nope beacuse...

They cannot over come the keyboard, paint and airport problem without chanign the form factor.

It's only stayin in this version for OS 9 bootability. I mean it's the only PB that can so it brings customers who still need OS9.

I think you'll see the current PB stay at the current form Factor for those people (a la the 1.25 G4 PM) and you'll see a newer Aluminum PB.

I think when Steve said he was stayin with the Titanium it was a clue not to sit around and wait for the 15" AlBook.

Too bad we didn't listen...

MacBoyX

holy MAC!
Jul 17, 2003, 06:21 PM
to clearify some things, i posted this idea because of something that Steve said during the macworld SF keynote.

read the quote in my previous post, the idea i got from that is that they will keep the titanium casing....

but this is an interesting idea though..... because would having a 15 inch powerbook in the current case make you not want to buy it?

that is to say: is the flimsy keyboard, the paint, and all the drawbacks of the current case things that you are willing to accept in order to have an up-to-date 15 inch powerbook?

chazmox
Jul 17, 2003, 06:37 PM
That's a tough one, because even with Rev A issues, the new aluminum models seem to be sturdier and better designed than the Titanium.

There is the paint issue, and even though it is improved, it is still not going to be as resistant to scratch as annodized aluminum ( not even close ).

There is the keyboard issue. A major internal redesign would be needed ( or maybe just an elastomeer support ) to fix this. If it was easy to fix, then they would have done something by now.

There is the airport antenna issue as the Titanium housing is designed. This could be as easy as enlargeing the openings, but that is a mold change.

And the two most important issues...

The hinge on the Ti book seems to be structurally inferior to the Al book. Visually the Ti book hinge has an advantage and it allows for connections on the back, but for a notebook, I'd have to go with the structurally sound sollution.

And the overall stiffness and rigidity of the Aluminum over the Titanium. The Aluminum powerbooks are much more rigid and "stronger" than the Ti...

Therefore, I'm not sure what I'd do, but I'd def. prefer Apple to release the 15 inch and not make me make that choise!

jbomber
Jul 17, 2003, 06:45 PM
I actually love the Titanium. It looks great and is really a beautiful machine. the problem is the damn paint and the issues with bluetooth and airport.

I took really good care of my Tibook and the damn paint still managed to chip and corrode. VERY frustrating. If they'd do something as simple as fix that problematic painted area, I'd buy another Tibook in a second.

daveL
Jul 17, 2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by holy MAC!
to clearify some things, i posted this idea because of something that Steve said during the macworld SF keynote.

read the quote in my previous post, the idea i got from that is that they will keep the titanium casing....

but this is an interesting idea though..... because would having a 15 inch powerbook in the current case make you not want to buy it?

that is to say: is the flimsy keyboard, the paint, and all the drawbacks of the current case things that you are willing to accept in order to have an up-to-date 15 inch powerbook?

I've read a number of posts that mention the TiBook's paint and wifi reception, and I have not experienced either of these problems. I've had my "rev c" TiPB (1GHz, 1 GB, superdrive) for 8 months. I'm an IT consultant and I travel alot. I use my TiBook all the bloody time. I do not have a single scratch on it, and my wifi reception around my 3 story house is excellent. My wifi basestation is all the way down in my ground floor office, no less. Maybe these are problems that were fixed in "rev c"? I certainly would not hestitate a minute to buy a new one.

FW800 is nice to future-proof the product, but I don't need it. Nor do I need 802.11g. Even if I did, I could always add a "g" pcmcia card in later.

I've been running the Panther preview and the performance increase is very apparent, so I know performance is not going to be an issue any time soon, not that it is now.

In short, after 30 years in this business, I feel I have finally found the perfect machine. Keep in mind that it's not just about the HW, it's about the HW and OSX together as a system. I will *never* use a wintel box again.

fjs08
Jul 17, 2003, 07:14 PM
DaveL,

>>I've read a number of posts that mention the TiBook's paint and wifi reception, and I have not experienced either of these problems. I've had my "rev c" TiPB (1GHz, 1 GB, superdrive) for 8 months.<<

What is "rev c?" Revision C?? What does that mean, and if it is a revision, what is it a revision of?? Also, how would I know if I bought one???

I know I can get by with an iBook, but I'm not sure about a 14" screen with 52 yr old eyes!! I currently have a 15" 3.5 yr old Dell and the screen is nice and bright, and big.

btw, did your keyboard make an imprint on the screen. I've heard people talk about this and on a recent trip to San Diego for a conference, the guy across the isle on the plane had his TiBook open and I did notice a definite imprinting on his screen.

Thanks.

Frank

BigJayhawk
Jul 17, 2003, 07:29 PM
Originally posted by jbomber
I actually love the Titanium. It looks great and is really a beautiful machine. the problem is the damn paint and the issues with bluetooth and airport.

I took really good care of my Tibook and the damn paint still managed to chip and corrode. VERY frustrating. If they'd do something as simple as fix that problematic painted area, I'd buy another Tibook in a second.

As mentioned above, one key consideration is PRICEPOINT. Does a $1999 Powerbook allow those who do not need the Airport and Bluetooth do without them and save while allowing those that need them add them or get the higher mofel? (For the savings, you could always add a second WiFi base station, for example.)

As for the TiBook Paint issue, is your PB under warranty? My case was replaced under warranty by a newer design. Still painted -- but seems much more durable. I've heard many people that have figured Apple would go the "cosmetic damage" route and not cover the repair. I ALMOST missed the boat as well.

I've finally learned to NEVER underestimate Apple Service.

Tiauguinho
Jul 17, 2003, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by fjs08
DaveL,

>>I've read a number of posts that mention the TiBook's paint and wifi reception, and I have not experienced either of these problems. I've had my "rev c" TiPB (1GHz, 1 GB, superdrive) for 8 months.<<

What is "rev c?" Revision C?? What does that mean, and if it is a revision, what is it a revision of?? Also, how would I know if I bought one???

Frank


It means Revision. Titanium Powerbooks got 4 revisions.

Rev.A = First Ti 400Mhz/500Mhz 8MB Video Ram

Rev.B = 550Mhz/667Mhz Combo Drives; 16MB Video Ram

Rev.C = 667Mhz/800Mhz Better Resolution Screen; DVI; 32MB Video Ram

Rev.D = 867Mhz/1Ghz SuperDrive; 64MB Video Ram on top model


Hope this helps.


Tiago

BigJayhawk
Jul 17, 2003, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by fjs08

btw, did your keyboard make an imprint on the screen. I've heard people talk about this and on a recent trip to San Diego for a conference, the guy across the isle on the plane had his TiBook open and I did notice a definite imprinting on his screen.

The "imprinting" is virtually ALL just dirt and oil from your keyboard. Placing an inexpensive THIN keyboard cover between the keyboard and screen fixes this. The 17" I've looked at in the Apple Store have no more clearance than the 15" PB. This is just a factor of having a 1" thin machine, I guess. However, as mentioned, VERY EASILY avoided. Also, iKlear (as I believe it's spelled) will treat and clean up any current oils and dirt from the screen to get back on the "right track."

BigJayhawk
Jul 17, 2003, 07:38 PM
Originally posted by Tiauguinho
Rev.C = 667Mhz/800Mhz Better Resolution Screen; DVI; 32MB Video Ram


For the record, my TiBook is Rev C (according to this) and under VERY, VERY HEAVY USE it almost immediately started chipping. However, the new case has not so much as a scratch with the same use over the past several months. So, I THINK that there was a point in time AFTER the Rev C came out that the case was fixed. Obviously, not ALL Rev C machines had the better case from the factory.

mrtew
Jul 17, 2003, 08:13 PM
I have had three TiBooks and like them a lot more than the AlBooks. The Al just looks a little cheap compared to the Ti especially the plastic trim around the lid and the base. Also the stiffer lid seems more solid to me than the easyglide screen on the new ones and the keyboard looks more professional to me. Thus I don't think I would get an AlBook, but I would definitely get a new Ti.

daveL
Jul 17, 2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by Tiauguinho
It means Revision. Titanium Powerbooks got 4 revisions.

Rev.A = First Ti 400Mhz/500Mhz 8MB Video Ram

Rev.B = 550Mhz/667Mhz Combo Drives; 16MB Video Ram

Rev.C = 667Mhz/800Mhz Better Resolution Screen; DVI; 32MB Video Ram

Rev.D = 867Mhz/1Ghz SuperDrive; 64MB Video Ram on top model


Hope this helps.


Tiago
Yes, it does help. I guess I'm rev D rather than rev C. I know I haven't had any problems with paint. I've also pounded on the keyboard for months at a time and haven't noticed it to be "flimsy". I'm an old fart, so maybe, through many $$ and experience, I've come to treat my stuff more gently. Thanks for this definitive info.

daveL
Jul 17, 2003, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by BigJayhawk
The "imprinting" is virtually ALL just dirt and oil from your keyboard. Placing an inexpensive THIN keyboard cover between the keyboard and screen fixes this. The 17" I've looked at in the Apple Store have no more clearance than the 15" PB. This is just a factor of having a 1" thin machine, I guess. However, as mentioned, VERY EASILY avoided. Also, iKlear (as I believe it's spelled) will treat and clean up any current oils and dirt from the screen to get back on the "right track."
Sorry for the multiple posts. I noticed this problem right off the bat, so I simply take two plain sheets of paper from the copy machine and insert them over the keyboard before I close it up. It works. Then, if you need a bit of note paper... there it is :-)

BigJayhawk
Jul 18, 2003, 12:09 AM
Good Idea! Heh! Simple, but Good!

macphoria
Jul 18, 2003, 12:47 AM
No way. Next 15" PowerBook update better be in Aluminium.

maradong
Jul 18, 2003, 02:09 AM
Originally posted by holy MAC!
i was just watching the macworld SF stream and i noticed that jobs said, "we are not leaving the titanium powerbook"....

this got me thinking.

would you guys buy a new Titanium powerbook, if it has all the same exterior features, except with bluetooth builtin, airport extreme, DDr ram?

personally, i definitely would....

i dont' care about a backlit keyboard, and i don't care about titanium or aluminum.... they are both gorgeous. i don't use firewire 800... and i dont' see myself using it....

the 17 inch would have a bigger screen, firewire 800, and backlit screen to separate itself from the 15 inch, but the 15 inch would have the l3 cache, the ram capability, and the better video card compared to the 12 inch.....

what do you all think?


of course i would.
most important = ddr ram , and ae.
the rest are all nice features but not necessary.

cb911
Jul 18, 2003, 05:53 AM
i've been hanging out for a AL 15" update for ages. but now i'm thinking that i would be happy with a TiBook updated with DDR... nothing else that would really matter to me.

i haven't really seen the new AL models in person, but even thought they have they plastic trim (making it feel cheaper than the TiBooks) i think i would prefer it to the Titanium case. i would really like it to feel a bit stiffer, not that the TiBooks are a fragile computer.