Apple to Partner with O2 for iPhone UK? Orange in France?

[hmmm]

New Media Age report that O2 and Carphone Warehouse have both dismissed speculation that either has completed a deal to receive the iPhone on an exclusive basis.

Rumours surrounding Apple's new device which combines a phone and iPod have heightened following its launch in the US on 29 June.

Operator Cingular was chosen as the exclusive partner in the US and Apple is believed to be keen to adopt a similar strategy for its UK deployment. However, no launch date has yet been announced.

While Vodafone and T-Mobile have each been linked to Apple this week, recent reports suggest that O2 and Carphone Warehouse have emerged as the frontrunners in the race to win the highly prized phone.

However, both companies moved to dismiss the reports.

"There is no deal, it's all rumours," said a spokesman for O2.

His comments were echoed by a Carphone Warehouse representative who said he expected Apple to opt for a joint release with both an operator and network agnostic retailer.

"As the largest retailer we are in with a shout but it's all complete speculation," he said.

[russellelly]

I don't think what O2/Voda/whatever have done to previous phones in terms of branding or locking is in any way relevant to iPhone. Apple will have much more control. It's a whole new ball game really.

[xUKHCx]

Here's the confirmation you all were waiting for:

www.o2.co.uk/iphone

very funny

The plot thickens. This doesn't mean the market will accept such low standards though.

indeed, it simple has to be 3G, they would get slated by the media if it is not.

[hmmm]

Here's the confirmation you all were waiting for:

www.o2.co.uk/iphone

Exactly!

Here's the 02 iPhone page

"02 - Sorry, we don't seem to be able to find the page you are after...

Unfortunately the server couldn't find the page you requested, either because it is temporarily unavailable, has had its name changed or no longer exists.

This might be because:
You may have typed the web address incorrectly. Please check the address and spelling ensuring that it does not contain capital letters or spaces;
It is possible that the page you were looking for may have been moved, updated or deleted.
Please try the following options instead:
Go back to the previous page
Go to the O2 Homepage
Go to the O2 Sitemap"

[phatspider]

Here's the confirmation you all were waiting for:

www.o2.co.uk/iphone

What does that prove

Try www.vodafone.co.uk/iphone and you dont get an error page

[redwin11]

Oh, sorry, i meant www.o2.co.uk/iphone/3bloodyGtoo

[Devil's Refugee]

iPhone with no 3G or MMS messaging in Europe will be like M$ trying to break the japanese market with the XBox......

[emotion]

iPhone with no 3G or MMS messaging in Europe will be like M$ trying to break the japanese market with the XBox......

Hahaha, good analogy.

[melevittfl]

(Not saying NI is rural here! My sister lives out in Suffolk and everyone there is on o2 or Vodaphone cos they have good coverage)

The advantage that o2 and Voda have is that they use 900Mhz, whereas T-mobile and Orange use 1800Mhz.

The lower frequencies require more power at the base stations, but they penetrate buildings easier.

In my town (not rural by any means), Orange claimed they had excellent coverage, but I couldn't get a signal in my house. However it worked outside.

[princigalli]

In reply to some posts... First of all I don't want to bankrupt apple and my temptation to go for a Samsung is not an attempt to bankrupt them. I have every piece of Apple equipment and gadget at home and I'm very satisfied. But I hate their IPhone selling practices.

A good company should try to encourage the market to give more choice to consumers. What Apple is doing with the Iphone sounds more like Microsoft practice. It's probably true that power corrupts.

Of course I like the Iphone better than many other phones, but I won't let a hardware maker decide on service providers for me. This is my freedom and my choice. I want to get the service provider that I feel is best for me. Not for Apple's profits. If I get a company that costs 30% more than one of my choice, parts of it will go to Apple. But didn't I pay the full price for the hardware when I purchased the phone?

As for 3G and what I need to do with it, it's quite simple. First of all video. I want to be able to download quality video. Then I want the phone to act as a modem for my MacBook Pro. Then I want to download mail attachments with large pictures. And I want to surf the net very fast.

I'm not asking for too much because the technology has been out there and the fact that the 3G chip would be too large or drain batteries sounds like complete bull to me. How does competition come out with smaller phones that have 3G, good battery life, and even GPS in some cases?

It looks like Apple's choice is dictated by one element: the $30 or so in savings they get by using old technology leftovers. If that was the only sacrifice I had to make for their profit I would probably give in. But I feel they ask too much for.

The Iphone is a great telephone and I'm sure it's fine to many. But I feel that its price plus the expensive voice and data plans that Apple forces you to take will end up making a hefty difference in one year. A difference that could buy me a Macbook. And most importantly, I don't think that this way of selling should be encouraged at all.

If all phone makers learned from Apple we would no longer have a choice of service. Then why not have a large monopoly in the first place?

[BCNMacLovr]

So if I live in Barcelona... I have to wait 'till 2008? :( I don't understand why not launching iPhone in Italy... they are the most important mobile phone market in the EU. France, UK and Germany are the countries where Apple has best sales, though. I hope Spanish and Italians will see iPhone 2.0 when Apple decides to come to our countries.
And I still think that paying 500€ for a phone without 3G is too much! Maybe I don't use Video-calling or TV but if I'm paying that amount, I want the latest technology.

[Galex]

As a European (brit) who's played with the iPhone, I have a couple of observations.

People were not buying this device blind. The Applestores are full of iPhones to play with. The SF store had maybe 20-30 units on display. These were not dummies, but actual phones. They are live too. You could make calls on them. Try them out. They had only blocked international dialling.

Now that is some enlightened thinking. I have never been in a Carphone Warehouse and had a chance to actually touch a real phone until I'd signed the 'effin contract. That's why phone interfaces are so crap. We don't get to see how bad they are until after we have paid up.

Good observation. The cell phone dummies being showed in the shops have always annoyed me. Especially since they, despite being worthless dummies, are commonly chained to a wall in order not to be stolen, making it impossible to get a realistic feel of the phone's weight etc. Would anyone seriously consider stealing a dummy? Even if Apple's entry to the mobile phone industry would only lead to the extinction of the cell phone dummy, all customers would be better off.

/Galex

[notme]

O2 says it hasn't signed a U.K. iPhone distribution pact with Apple

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/o2-says-hasnt-signed-uk/story.aspx?guid=%7BA2F0C3D0-29D0-43CD-B819-6F85119C34BA%7D

[phatspider]

So if I live in Barcelona... I have to wait 'till 2008? :( I don't understand why not launching iPhone in Italy... they are the most important mobile phone market in the EU. France, UK and Germany are the countries where Apple has best sales, though. I hope Spanish and Italians will see iPhone 2.0 when Apple decides to come to our countries.
And I still think that paying 500€ for a phone without 3G is too much! Maybe I don't use Video-calling or TV but if I'm paying that amount, I want the latest technology.

Indeed - how embarassing will it be if by Feb 2008 when the Mobile World Congress meets in Barcelona that you won't be able to buy what is being heralded as the biggest change to the mobile market!

[phatspider]

I'm starting to wonder whether i'd just be better off with something like a Sony Ericsson W960i :

http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=global&lc=en&ver=4001&template=pp1_1_1&zone=pp&lm=pp1&pid=10908

8gb
Touchscreen
3.2 mp cam
Video recording
Opera browser
Wifi

[dalvin200]

In reply to some posts... First of all I don't want to bankrupt apple and my temptation to go for a Samsung is not an attempt to bankrupt them. I have every piece of Apple equipment and gadget at home and I'm very satisfied. But I hate their IPhone selling practices.

A good company should try to encourage the market to give more choice to consumers. What Apple is doing with the Iphone sounds more like Microsoft practice. It's probably true that power corrupts.

Of course I like the Iphone better than many other phones, but I won't let a hardware maker decide on service providers for me. This is my freedom and my choice. I want to get the service provider that I feel is best for me. Not for Apple's profits. If I get a company that costs 30% more than one of my choice, parts of it will go to Apple. But didn't I pay the full price for the hardware when I purchased the phone?

As for 3G and what I need to do with it, it's quite simple. First of all video. I want to be able to download quality video. Then I want the phone to act as a modem for my MacBook Pro. Then I want to download mail attachments with large pictures. And I want to surf the net very fast.

I'm not asking for too much because the technology has been out there and the fact that the 3G chip would be too large or drain batteries sounds like complete bull to me. How does competition come out with smaller phones that have 3G, good battery life, and even GPS in some cases?

It looks like Apple's choice is dictated by one element: the $30 or so in savings they get by using old technology leftovers. If that was the only sacrifice I had to make for their profit I would probably give in. But I feel they ask too much for.

The Iphone is a great telephone and I'm sure it's fine to many. But I feel that its price plus the expensive voice and data plans that Apple forces you to take will end up making a hefty difference in one year. A difference that could buy me a Macbook. And most importantly, I don't think that this way of selling should be encouraged at all.

If all phone makers learned from Apple we would no longer have a choice of service. Then why not have a large monopoly in the first place?

IMO you drive home some excellent points..

I hope that a lot of others who want the iphone also feel the same way, and that Apple realises all of this in time!!

[Devil's Refugee]

Yeah, VNUNet are carrying the same story now.

Would seem at least O2 are either not in the frame, or denying it until an official announcement.

Would be nice though that the jump-the-gun journos spoilt a deal with O2....I don't rate them at all as a carrier here in the UK

I'm starting to wonder whether i'd just be better off with something like a Sony Ericsson W960i :

http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?...=pp1&pid=10908

8gb
Touchscreen
3.2 mp cam
Video recording
Opera browser
Wifi

Yeah, it's a nice phone, always like the SE phones over Nokia

[Devil's Refugee]

http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?cc=global&lc=en&ver=4001&template=pp1_1_1&zone=pp&lm=pp1&pid=10865

Or the SE P1c

[braisim]

I agree with princigelli, this 'exclusive operator' arrangement is a rip-off. We can only hope that the iPhone might spur some even better devices from the likes of Sony Ericsson, Nokia, etc. The iPhone is certainly over-priced. Last weekend I went to my local store and bought a SE K800i for just €211. In Belgium, locked handsets are illegal, so I can use it on any network (I also (legally) debranded it for €7 online). It has expandable memory up to 4gb (for about €50 for the cost of an M2 card), a usable music player, a better camera than the iPhone and last, but not least, 3G and MMS, both lacking on the iPhone. The only major functional omission vis a vis the iPhone is the lack of wifi. But it looks like I would be asked to fork out at least twice that for the iPhone, as well as in all likelihood a more expensive rate plan. That looks very steep to me. OK, so the SE doesn't have quite as good an interface as the iPhone, but still... Don't get me wrong, I adore the iPod but I think Apple have really gone too far in gouging its customers this time. Anyway, this is all to show that us consumers should be allowed to choose which handset and which network we want to use - locked handsets and exclusive handset/operator arrangements make everything less transparent and increase the risk of us getting ripped off.

[Devil's Refugee]

If Apple wade in with Doc Martens across Europe they'll potentially alienate a very lucrative market. Not giving 3G or MMS functionality from day 1 will be damaging (especially MMS unless they tweak the OS).

Such a strategy would only allow the likes of SE, Nokia and Motorola (who already have the touchscreen ROKR E6 and a Linux slider) to develop something close if not better than the iPhone and steal back the market share.

With the amount of iPhone-style phones emerging at a fast pace, it will only be a matter of time before Apple will be caught on the hop, still resting on their original iPhone launch laurels.

I love Apple products, I've recently switched from XP to OSX, even the wife finds them easier to use. But this kind of jack-boot strategy won't go down well here.

I only hope they treat Europe and the UK as a market to be listened to, and not just an outlet for products.

[Devil's Refugee]

...has decided instead to sign separate deals with the largest operator in each European market for the initial launch of the handset in the UK, France and Germany in time for the Christmas sales rush.


How does affect roaming then ???

Or has Apple not even considered this at all ?! :mad:

[psychofreak]

With England's own Jonathon Ive so high up in the food chain (OK, nothing to do with the business side, but still) I would have thought that the UK wouldn't be a last-thought for Apple...

Higher pricing, later releases, and generally worse support (very few people here seem to get replacement machines)...we're not being treated well...

[CBX]

So many rumors from so many sources... I think the only carrier not mentioned so far is Three!

I cant believe the accuracy of rumors lately - its become like the sports pages in the newspapers!

[thecritix]

I don't think what O2/Voda/whatever have done to previous phones in terms of branding or locking is in any way relevant to iPhone. Apple will have much more control. It's a whole new ball game really.

i agree, its a totally different style of phone with new ways of activation etc, i too don't see how other methods of unlocking or similar are relevant.

Also surely because the iphone is sooo different, (all the wifi features and maps and edge or 3g, this would not work if you transferred network?)

Would seem an odd thing to transfer network and lose lots of the functionality of the iphone.

[Devil's Refugee]

I cant believe the accuracy of rumors lately - its become like the sports pages in the newspapers!

Or the front pages of the Daily Sport :D :D :D

[CBX]

Or the front pages of the Daily Sport :D :D :D

:D

[princigalli]

Yeah, VNUNet are carrying the same story now.

Would seem at least O2 are either not in the frame, or denying it until an official announcement.

Would be nice though that the jump-the-gun journos spoilt a deal with O2....I don't rate them at all as a carrier here in the UK



Yeah, it's a nice phone, always like the SE phones over Nokia


Since it looks like Apple doesn't want our European money, I am looking at alternatives too. So yes, the Sony looks quite nice, and the P1 seems to be very interesting.

I am still curious about the samsung i600 which looks very nice (not like competing full keyboard phones) and even offers HSPDA.

My only concern is is I'll be able to use ISync with those phones. Apple has always been very lazy in updating their list of supported phones, and they are certainly not to include possibly better competition products in their list. There are third party solutions out there... only time will tell. But don't all Windows Mobile devices Sync with Apple Address book with some extension software?

[ABM]

O2 nears iPhone partnership

By Andrew Parker and Maija Palmer in London and Paul Taylor in New York

Published: July 4 2007 23:01 | Last updated: July 5 2007 09:18

Telefónica’s O2 mobile phone business was poised on Wednesday night to clinch a deal as Apple’s exclusive network partner for iPhone in the UK, said people familiar with the matter.

O2 is set to be the first European mobile operator to reach a deal with Apple for its much-hyped iPhone. Apple is to limit iPhone’s European launch this autumn to the UK, France and Germany. It will follow elsewhere in Europe next year, when it will also launch in Asia.

The European iPhone will operate on slower 2.5 generation mobile networks, not the 3G infrastructure of companies such as Vodafone, people close to the situation said.

The US computer company talked to four leading European mobile operators: Deutsche Telekom’s T-Mobile, France Telecom’s Orange, Telefónica’s O2 and Vodafone.

Carolina Milanesi, research director at consulting firm Gartner, said an iPhone launch in three European markets could make sense as no one operator covers the entire continent. Apple would logically deal with operators with most customers in each of the three markets. Orange leads in France, T-Mobile in Germany, and O2 in the UK.

European operators had a dilemma in negotiations because of concerns Apple seeks deals that could be far more onerous than past agreements with other handset makers.

The deal between Apple and AT&T, largest US telecommunications company, for the US puts Apple in the driving seat, reportedly giving it a share of customer revenue. The iPhone is priced at $499 and $599. US iPhone runs on AT&T’s 2.5G network.

When Apple set up its iTunes music download site in Europe in 2004, it confined the initial launch to the French, German and UK markets.

Ms Milanesi said Apple would be under pressure to launch the iPhone in other European countries soon after the French, German and UK markets because otherwise it could upset potential customers.

O2 said: “We have not signed a deal with Apple.” Apple said: “We ... do not comment on rumours or speculation.”

However, Vodafone shares were among the worst performers on the FTSE 100 on Thursday - down 1.3 per cent at 164p.

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2007

No 3G at the end? :(

[mrgrill]

I've have a read through this thread and apologies if it has been brought up already (I don't think it has), but everyone has been caught up with the debate over Edge and 3G to decide which operator gets the iPhone in Europe, or more specifically the UK. However, I haven't seen any mention of other features of the iPhone which are network dependant. Namely Visual Voicemail. This will require a system to be developed or in place will it not? I don't know about any other operators but I know mine does not have this system in place. So I guess it depends on who can add this feature as well. Probably doesn't take a lot of time to develop.

I take it the O2 new story is just speculation? I have a feeling it will be O2 in the UK, but it wouldn't surprise me if in the coming days/weeks, we see more stories claiming "insert operator name" has clinched the deal with Apple.

Wake me up when the facts are out. :)

[jont1967]

Interestingly however there does seem to be some contrary views floating round the net as to whether it is Vodafone or O2 in the UK, have a look at the attached.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/mobile-phones/news/2007/07/05/iPhone-Contains-T-Mobile-Vodafone-Images/p1

[Compile 'em all]

I've have a read through this thread and apologies if it has been brought up already (I don't think it has), but everyone has been caught up with the debate over Edge and 3G to decide which operator gets the iPhone in Europe, or more specifically the UK. However, I haven't seen any mention of other features of the iPhone which are network dependant. Namely Visual Voicemail. This will require a system to be developed or in place will it not? I don't know about any other operators but I know mine does not have this system in place. So I guess it depends on who can add this feature as well. Probably doesn't take a lot of time to develop.


No operator had this feature before Apple came up with it. So any carrier that Apple partners with will have to setup such a system, which I assume is quite easy.

[ABM]

Some hackintosh users guess that those png files are for roaming partners.

[xUKHCx]

Interestingly however there does seem to be some contrary views floating round the net as to whether it is Vodafone or O2 in the UK, have a look at the attached.

http://www.trustedreviews.com/mobile-phones/news/2007/07/05/iPhone-Contains-T-Mobile-Vodafone-Images/p1

These little pictures can easily be updated, it is just a simple matter of software update by apple. Apple would've also had to have known who the europe carriers were before they released the iphone in the states

[Nik_Doof]

So many rumors from so many sources... I think the only carrier not mentioned so far is Three!

I cant believe the accuracy of rumors lately - its become like the sports pages in the newspapers!

Three is a total 3G network, they have no 2G capacity, they rent it from another network with the agreement that its a backup network. It used to be O2 up until recently but now i think its T-Mobile.

If the EU iPhone isn't 3G capable, then Three as a carrier is a stupid idea.

[phatspider]

Some hackintosh users guess that those png files are for roaming partners.

Thats beleivable but if so - where are all the others?

[Philsy]

I'll probably get a really good free phone (P1) and sell it on eBay for approximately £250 then use that money to buy the iPhone meaning it is only £50 or so.

A cunning plan, but only if you can get an iPhone without taking out another contract.

[ABM]

Thats beleivable but if so - where are all the others?

using text instead of images?

[xUKHCx]

A cunning plan, but only if you can get an iPhone without taking out another contract.

I'll just buy one from the apple store assuming the sales are handle the same way as in the states.

[Philsy]

I'll just buy one from the apple store assuming the sales are handle the same way as in the states.

I could put a tail on you and call you a weasel :D

[Carniphage]

The US launch of this device was a unique event. By all accounts they sold the best part of a million units in 4 days.

Its unprecedented. The similarly-priced PS3 has only just crawled up to a million US sales. (lol) They are not just buying a phone, customers are migrating to AT&T to switch.

Last Friday afternoon, Apple had no power. No track record, Nothing but a few samples. It just had two hole cards.
After the weekend, Apple was a player. Suddenly, the European carriers are eager to talk. Apple is sitting on a straight flush.

I am pretty sure that there are no deals yet. Because Apple has only just arrived at a position where it can negotiate from a place of strength.

The 3G networks are keen to get the iPhone, because it finally justifies their investment. And the iPhone WAS DESIGNED FOR 3G.

The 2.5 Networks might want to spoil that by securing it for themselves.

I bet Jobs is having a ton of fun right now.

C.

[CBX]

Three is a total 3G network, they have no 2G capacity, they rent it from another network with the agreement that its a backup network. It used to be O2 up until recently but now i think its T-Mobile.

If the EU iPhone isn't 3G capable, then Three as a carrier is a stupid idea.

I wasnt sugesting that Three was an option - just making the point that more or less every carrier has been linked to the iPhone!

This was always going to happen but it would be nice not to have contradicting rumors day in day ie T-Mobile Monday, Voda Tues o2 Wed...

I guess that it all adds to the hype!

**Just wishing some facts would come out as my current contract is up for renewal**

[ictiosapiens]

Jesus, do people really not understand that Apple are using the the iphone as leverage to force the telecoms business to stop raping their customers. Apple realizes that it must do this because, left to their own greed and stupidity, the telcos will spend the next decade stunting innovation and new market growth.

Have you ever met a telco executive - absolute, dribbling morons. Unless that entire industry gets it's act together, there is no point in Apple trying to do anything. Steve Jobs realizes that he has ONE chance, one opportunity to use the clout the ipod's success has given him to break down the walls and play the telcos off against one another. These bastards don't want to give away so much power but they are terrified that, if they don't, their competitors will.

The end result, if the gamble pays off, will be a true mass market for mobile broadband and telcos that are far more customer-oriented.


Are you serious??? Yeah right, Steve of Calcutta...

No offence, but I personally think the only reason they aren't selling the phone unlocked and in their own stores, is for the simple fact that they want in the subscription cake... I'm quite surprised they didn't start their own mvno(maybe too much of a gamble for a 1gen unproven product)...

We'll see what happens and if indeed customers are happy to get "raped" yet again, but by a new company, or if they will demand more for less...

[barnsleyboy]

This story looks very believable - Kewney is well respected over here - and I'd certainly be happier with Vodafone:

http://www.newswireless.net/index.cfm/article/3505

Nigel

[yagran]

**Just wishing some facts would come out as my current contract is up for renewal**

me too, im with o2 at the moment but it finishes in 2 months, i really hope its not with o2 because they arent compatible with me...how do i explain what i mean?...hm..ok heres my 16 months of bills:

Moto RAZR cost - 29.99
mar - 46.71
apr - 39.21
may - 50.92
jun - 51.40
jul - 38.23
aug - 71.98
sep - 54.10
oct - 94.12
nov - 109.58
dec - 87.86
jan - 96.32
feb - 64.07
mar - 76.95
apr - 210.28
may - 100.76
jun - 57.93
------------------
total - £1279.86

average cost per month - £78.12
so 18 months ~ £1436.10


see what i mean now? i need a new provider with a more 'me compatible' plan. i think its mainly data charges which drive my bills up, checking macrumors rss etc. oh and the £210 was when i visited new york for 2 weeks and used my phone as a modem.

comparatively heres what i expect from the iPhone:

Contract per month - £35 (with unlimited data hopefully!)
My average spend per month - £40
Cost of iPhone 8GB - £379
so over 18 months contract total cost = 379 + (40*18) = £1099

and £1099 for the iPhone sounds great to me in comparison to ~ £1436.10 for a RAZR(which broke so I'm on a PEBL!!!)

so in conclusion i hope it goes to vodafone as i can get a good contract through my dads work with them.

[miniConvert]

This story looks very believable - Kewney is well respected over here - and I'd certainly be happier with Vodafone:

http://www.newswireless.net/index.cfm/article/3505

Nigel
Crikey, Steve must be absolutely loving the fever pitch atmosphere surrounding his new baby! Talk about a coup for Apple!

I'd certainly be happier with Vodafone, also - in terms of the network infrastructure the future would just be far more rosy.

[Mitch1984]

I was on 02 4 years ago, you can't get delivery reports for SMS.
Not sure if they've sorted out their crap coverage which is why I changed to Orange.

[Donnacha]

Are you serious??? Yeah right, Steve of Calcutta...
I'm not saying he's doing it out of altruism, I'm saying that he sees the short-sightedness of the telcos as a road-block between where he is and where he wants to go, he's trying to blast that road-block out of his way.

By charging so much for data, the telcos are shooting themselves in the foot because they are preventing a mass market from emerging. In the long-run, they will make a lot more money by making 3G mainstream but, right now, they are focused entirely on their next quarter's results and are unable to stand back and see the big picture.

Jobs has a big stick, the iphone - both the technology and the hype-machine. The thought of one of their competitors getting the iphone is just about the only thing that will force the telcos to consider dropping their prices to a level at which mainstream consumers will buy in.

If mainstream consumers don't buy into 3G, the iphone has no future, just as the ipod would have had no future if consumers hadn't bought into the concept of broadband and downloading music.

[ictiosapiens]

I'm not saying he's doing it out of altruism, I'm saying that he sees the short-sightedness of the telcos as a road-block between where he is and where he wants to go, he's trying to blast that road-block out of his way.

By charging so much for data, the telcos are shooting themselves in the foot because they are preventing a mass market from emerging. In the long-run, they will make a lot more money by making 3G mainstream but, right now, they are focused entirely on their next quarter's results and are unable to stand back and see the big picture.

Jobs has a big stick, the iphone - both the technology and the hype-machine. The thought of one of their competitors getting the iphone is just about the only thing that will force the telcos to consider dropping their prices to a level at which mainstream consumers will buy in.

If mainstream consumers don't buy into 3G, the iphone has no future, just as the ipod would have had no future if consumers hadn't bought into the concept of broadband and downloading music.


From that perspective you are right, the networks are taking way too long in bringing the data prices down... The change seems to be happening though, voda just droped their prices and t-mob had done it a few months back, but like you say, there's still work to be done. Saying that, I mantain that the only reason apple isn't selling the iphone solo, is because they want in a subscription based service. We'll also have to see if they can get away with those 2 year contracts...

on another line of thoughts though, I think apple should start marketing at least, as the other players are flooding europe with new advertising of their new stuff. I just came bach from central London, and the tube is flooded with HTC's touch, Nokias and Samsung posters... I know the press is helping them out with US news for free, but if indeed the iphone isn't coming for 4-6 months, they need to keep it hot around here...

[xUKHCx]

I could put a tail on you and call you a weasel :D

I've been thinking about it some more and i could actually make money out of this because i have a K800 i can sell which are prorbaly worth about £80-120 and an 8Gb nano which again is probably worth at least £100 on ebay. So combine this with the P1 or N95 sales gives a grand total (bargain hunt style drum roll) of somewhere between £400 and £500. Brilliant.

[rob@robburns.co]

The US launch of this device was a unique event. By all accounts they sold the best part of a million units in 4 days.


...

The 3G networks are keen to get the iPhone, because it finally justifies their investment. And the iPhone WAS DESIGNED FOR 3G.

The 2.5 Networks might want to spoil that by securing it for themselves.

I bet Jobs is having a ton of fun right now.

C.

I totally agree with everything you said.

[SayCheese]

Where I live I can get Vodafone (my current provider), Orange, T-Mobile and 3 service 100%. The only provider that I cannot get is O2. If they go with O2 then I will not be getting an iPhone.

It is not the internet connectivity as I have a WiFi connection at home it is the basic calls and SMS that I need. I still live with my parents (house prices here are stupidly expensive) and as such I only give out my mobile number to my mates and anyone else that needs it. Even work only have my mobile number. If I cannot get a signal at home then the iPhone is a no go.

I have just in the last few minutes checked the O2 coverage website and they say that I should get a low but useable signal here. I can but only if I stand at the end of my driveway (not much use if I am in the house). I have also just done a manual operator search on my current phone and the only provider that does not come up as available is O2.

I await further news with much anticipation.

[Donnacha]

If they go with O2 then I will not be getting an iPhone.
Well, quickly, let Steve know before he signs anything!

[JFreak]

If the iPhone in Europe has no 3G, it is an utter waste of time for Apple to bring it here. I will not buy an iPhone unless it has 3G.

Same here!!

[JFreak]

Someone on another forum made a comment about the iPhone not being able to handle MMS??

Who cares? The thing has a full-featured email client. MMS was born as a big flop.

[Philsy]

Who cares? The thing has a full-featured email client. MMS was born as a big flop.

MMS is very popular and very useful. Email is fine unless you want to send a photo to someone else's mobile. Let's face it, most mobile phones do email but few people bother to configure them.

[SayCheese]

Well, quickly, let Steve know before he signs anything!

Is that sarcasm really necessary? I know that I am just one customer compared with thousands of others but I am only expressing a personal opinion.

Surely we are all allowed to express an opinon???

[jonatron]

im think it would be great if 02 got the contract. Overall they offer a reputable and reliable service in the uk.

[dog299]

i see that amazon.co.uk are listing it as out Dec 1st at £329 8gig and £279 4gig

no mention of a contract! maybe it will without in UK? wishful thinking?:o

[Project]

UPDATE: A well placed tbites source at a rival network with no interest in spinning the story tells us the iPhone has "definitely" gone to 02 in the UK. What everyone is not sure about yet is if this is just going to be the US / 2.5G version, or which operator will get the license for the 3G version of the iPhone which is due to appear at the end of this year/beginning of next. What is also puzzling some industry observers is why 02 wants the iPhone when it is already the leading UK network, and is therefore not in as much need of an extra 500,000 customers (as were attracted to AT&T in the US). The plot thickens...

http://tbites.com/2007/07/iphone-goes-to-02in-uk

Mike is reliable

[dog299]

What is also puzzling some industry observers is why 02 wants the iPhone when it is already the leading UK network, and is therefore not in as much need of an extra 500,000 customers (as were attracted to AT&T in the US).

well if they are in the lead; they would want to maintain that lead...wouldnt want nasty Voda or Orange getting those 500,000 extra customers...strange they go for such a high placed deal as they already paying £5m a year for 'The O2' dome thing...i hope they sort their customer service out and the difference between O2 online and O2 stores! the online store is just nasty!

[skoops]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601102&sid=abO7i.hUUOps&refer=uk

July 5 (Bloomberg) -- Telefonica SA's O2 wireless unit said it hasn't signed a deal with Apple Inc. to be the exclusive U.K. network partner for the iPhone mobile device.

``No deal has been signed with Apple,'' O2 spokesman David Nicholas said today by telephone from London. ``We don't comment on rumor or speculation.''

The response comes after the Financial Times, citing people close to the talks, reported that O2 is close to a deal to be the exclusive network provider for the iPhone in the U.K. The O2 deal is a blow to Newbury, England-based Vodafone Group Plc, the world's largest mobile operator, which was seen as the frontrunner for the contract, the Daily Telegraph reported.

[Mada]

1000 apologies if this has already been mentioned but it's now on Amazon UK for £329.99 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-iPhone-8GB/dp/B000IJO9SC/ref=pd_bbs_1/203-4210738-2823120?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1183656653&sr=8-1

[ruutiveijari]

Who cares? The thing has a full-featured email client. MMS was born as a big flop.
As someone who is working for a Finnish telco I can assure you it's not (in Finland atleast). Quite a large segment of Finnish consumers use MMS. Many more use MMS than use email with their mobile phones.

[dog299]

1000 apologies if this has already been mentioned but it's now on Amazon UK for £329.99 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-iPhone-8GB/dp/B000IJO9SC/ref=pd_bbs_1/203-4210738-2823120?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1183656653&sr=8-1

yeah but without the link...i was lazy hehe:rolleyes:

wonder if this mean it will sold both sim free on amazon and then with a network at a reduced rate!

do amazon sell phone with simcards?

[hollerz]

1000 apologies if this has already been mentioned but it's now on Amazon UK for £329.99 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Apple-iPhone-8GB/dp/B000IJO9SC/ref=pd_bbs_1/203-4210738-2823120?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1183656653&sr=8-1

NO WAY! Far cheaper than I thought it would be, if that is indeed the correct price! December 1st though :( Hope it comes sooner than that.

[Mada]

do amazon sell phone with simcards?
They seem to do both

Nokia 1600 Vodafone - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokia-1600-Vodafone-Mobile-Weekends/dp/B000BPCD5Y/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/203-4210738-2823120?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1183657087&sr=8-2

Sim Free Nokia N95 - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokia-N95-Free-Mobile-Phone/dp/B000OGT1SM/ref=sr_1_1/203-4210738-2823120?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1183657126&sr=1-1

[Donnacha]

...strange they go for such a high placed deal as they already paying £5m a year for 'The O2' dome thing..
The dome and their 3G network are basically fixed costs, costs that would remain even if Vodafone scooped the iphone and took half of our customers.

O2 couldn't afford to lose the deal even more than Vodafone couldn't afford to lose it and caved in to all of Apple's demands, including an £35 entry level voice + unlimited data plan :D

There will be a joint iphone/o2 arena launch on Thursday November 29th, including A-list entertainment and free drinks - cost of entry: one prepaid iphone purchase (£279 or £329), you get to go home with your iphone, everyone else has to wait until the following day, all units will sell out over the weekend, adding to the frenzied hype and priming demand for another huge shipment just before Christmas, sold through Tesco as part of 02's existing deal as the carrier behind Tesco Mobile.

[dog299]

[QUOTE=Mada;3877259]They seem to do both

Nokia 1600 Vodafone - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokia-1600-Vodafone-Mobile-Weekends/dp/B000BPCD5Y/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/203-4210738-2823120?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1183657087&sr=8-2
QUOTE]

Only pay as you go? just seems strange to buy a pay monthly from Amazon perhaps i am old fashioned!?:rolleyes:

[Digitaljim]

O2 currently charge £3 per MB for data! :(

That's the price of a pint. What would you rather have: some lame YouTube clip on your crappy 3.5" screen or a lovely cold pint? (or 1/2 pint if you're in London/Edinburgh/Bristol)

[bilbo--baggins]

Is that sarcasm really necessary? I know that I am just one customer compared with thousands of others but I am only expressing a personal opinion.

Surely we are all allowed to express an opinon???

Maybe it was sarcasm, but I would take it as a serious suggestion. If you really will not buy an iPhone if it doesn't have 3G, or perhaps on an EDGE network, then why not tell them? Who knows, if they get enough feedback it might influence their decision. If they really cannot produce a 3G version in time for the initial UK launch then I would MUCH rather they went with Orange who have an EDGE network. Forcing UK iPhone users to use a network that only allows then to get GPRS data is ridiculous.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/

[Devil's Refugee]

You've gotta laugh at that Amazon advert.

Cingular's EDGE network ?? LOL

And as for the 2 "reviews"..pmsl

Guaranteed the price and spec will change, as will the release date. I wouldn't bother pre-ordering, especially if it's sold exclusively through one network via contract only.

[Rocketman]

As someone who is working for a Finnish telco I can assure you it's not (in Finland atleast). Quite a large segment of Finnish consumers use MMS. Many more use MMS than use email with their mobile phones.

Once everyone who matters buys an iPhone (relatively) nobody will be using crippled formats, but will be using real email with real attachments and be able to view it on their phone, laptop, desktop, and even remote server.

For those still complaining about EDGE, remember it was adopted because it is the most widely available network (at least in the USA), and the data rate is practically "faster than a modem". It has been widely adopted by government users here and now by Apple. The current handset hardware is EDGE. You guys will get your iPhones faster with an EDGE delivery provider. That IS what you care about, isn't it?

Rocketman

[Philsy]

Once everyone who matters buys an iPhone (relatively) nobody will be using crippled formats, but will be using real email with real attachments and be able to view it on their phone, laptop, desktop, and even remote server.

Rocketman

Well, that won't happen. MMS is here to stay and serves a useful purpose. Also, the service providers like MMS messages because they are a revenue earner.

[SayCheese]

Maybe it was sarcasm, but I would take it as a serious suggestion. If you really will not buy an iPhone if it doesn't have 3G, or perhaps on an EDGE network, then why not tell them? Who knows, if they get enough feedback it might influence their decision. If they really cannot produce a 3G version in time for the initial UK launch then I would MUCH rather they went with Orange who have an EDGE network. Forcing UK iPhone users to use a network that only allows then to get GPRS data is ridiculous.

http://www.apple.com/feedback/

Good suggestion, however the reason that I won't get an iPhone on the O2 network is because I cannot get a signal at home. Not even a hint of a signal in the house so I cannot make or recieve a call. I don't really care if it is Edge/3G/GPRS. I'm not in that much of a hurry to use the internet that I can't wait an extra few seconds.

I will email Apple and ask them not to go with O2. I will see what they say, if anything.

[Yankees 4 Life]

hey guys it turns out that o2 hasn't even inked the deal with apple, and they are denying a deal has been done... so lets not get on the kill apple bandwagon

[Frazzle]

I don't see why so many people are taking all of this as fact.

I think that...
- the EU iPhone *is* 3G, already designed and ready for production
- the deal with EU carriers was signed some time before January 2007
- inclusion of Voda and T-Mobile logos in current firmware is significant
- the deal will be announced soon, but 3G will be announced in Q4
- in the meantime, the software will get MMS and Flash and all other nitpicks
- Apple will make Leopard / iLife launch a big event
- by December, upgrading the phone will not be taken badly in the US
- they could offer some trade-in or step-up program in the US if backlash is worse
- they may even offer to unlock iPhone 1.0 when you buy 2.0 so you can sell former easily :eek:

Let's feed the hype and keep speculating an getting worked up over nothing! :p

[capoditutti]

O2, if they have won the deal, have to get a few things sorted if they're to attract customers in a sensible way. I've been with O2 for seven years now, but only 6 months of that as a contract customer. The rest of the time I've been on PAYG, simply because their contract tariffs (for me) didn't offer as good value as their PAYG tariffs, and you will feel the pinch if you dare exceed the limits set by your tariff. Their coverage, where they say it's available, is great; even comparable to Vodafone in my opinion, and I'd know having used a Voda Contract line at work for six years.


I know they need to introduce a good data tariff to compete with T-Mobile's £7.50 'unlimited' deal...
I know they need to sort out the current costing structures related to calling their customer service departments - it costs an arm and a leg, and it shouldn't!
Their call plans aren't exactly 'generous' compared to the other networks here in the UK, and certainly nothing like what US customers are getting - any chance of a change there?

[SayCheese]

I don't see why so many people are taking all of this as fact.

I think that...
- the EU iPhone *is* 3G, already designed and ready for production
- the deal with EU carriers was signed some time before January 2007
- inclusion of Voda and T-Mobile logos in current firmware is significant
- the deal will be announced soon, but 3G will be announced in Q4
- in the meantime, the software will get MMS and Flash and all other nitpicks
- Apple will make Leopard / iLife launch a big event
- by December, upgrading the phone will not be taken badly in the US
- they could offer some trade-in or step-up program in the US if backlash is worse
- they may even offer to unlock iPhone 1.0 when you buy 2.0 so you can sell former easily :eek:

Let's feed the hype and keep speculating an getting worked up over nothing! :p

Good post and I hope that all of your points are correct.

Time will tell........

[daneoni]

I don't see why so many people are taking all of this as fact.

I think that...

- inclusion of Voda and T-Mobile logos in current firmware is significant


The inclusion is for Roaming. T-Mobile/Vodafone cover alot of ground all over the world

[Plutonius]

I don't see why so many people are taking all of this as fact.

I think that...
- the EU iPhone *is* 3G, already designed and ready for production
- the deal with EU carriers was signed some time before January 2007
- inclusion of Voda and T-Mobile logos in current firmware is significant
- the deal will be announced soon, but 3G will be announced in Q4
- in the meantime, the software will get MMS and Flash and all other nitpicks
- Apple will make Leopard / iLife launch a big event
- by December, upgrading the phone will not be taken badly in the US
- they could offer some trade-in or step-up program in the US if backlash is worse
- they may even offer to unlock iPhone 1.0 when you buy 2.0 so you can sell former easily :eek:

Let's feed the hype and keep speculating an getting worked up over nothing! :p

You will not see 3G until next year.

The logos are in the firmware because it doesn't cost anything to put them there and Apple had no idea who it would be partnering with (those are 2 of the biggest companies and prefered partners).

[EricNau]

Your plan in your home country has you covered. When you roam into another country you use whatever network is available that your phone supports and simply pay roaming charges, which are scheduled to be regulated and capped in all EU countries shortly. So it won't affect your ability to travel and use your phone.

However a lot of Europeans have multiple SIM cards and swap the cards depending on where they are to always pay the best rates. This would not be possible with the iPhone unless someone unlocks it. Thus, this could be a negative for those who are used to SIM swapping.
Just curious, what if you are in a country other than your 'home country' but you are still under the same network? ...Will you be charged roaming fees? If so, is that cheaper than paying roaming fees through another network?

When traveling abroad, will phones automatically try and grab your default network, or does it simply use the best signal available?

[skoops]

Just curious, what if you are in a country other than your 'home country' but you are still under the same network? ...Will you be charged roaming fees? If so, is that cheaper than paying roaming fees through another network?

When traveling abroad, will phones automatically try and grab your default network, or does it simply use the best signal available?

Mostly YES, however there are very few exceptions. "3" (three.co.uk, drei.at etc.) offers "Roam like home" service which lets you use all "three" networks worldwide as if they were your home network (no roaming charges)

I'm a T-Mobile Austria customer, and when I travel to germany I get logged into T-Mobile Germany automagically. I can however choose a different network manually. On the SIM-Card (or the phone) there's a preferred-networks-list which can be updated by the operator via "over-the-air-update" and the phone will always try to log into a preferred network first before trying the other available networks.

Roaming from T-mobile A to T-Mobile D is cheap, but not always the cheapest option.

[Devil's Refugee]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/07/06/cniphone106.xml

:rolleyes:

Let's hope not, again it would mean Vodafone would not win the carrier deal as CPW no longer supply Vodafone contracts.

[Porco]

I'm bored of the UK network rumours now. Is there any of them that hasn't been 'tipped to win', the 'front-runners' or been 'fighting hard' now?!

It would be hilarious if Apple signed deals with all of them and it's just been about keeping the stories in the media.

[Digitaljim]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/07/06/cniphone106.xml

:rolleyes:

Let's hope not, again it would mean Vodafone would not win the carrier deal as CPW no longer supply Vodafone contracts.

I hope not.

The Carphone Warehouse is a horrible little chain of shops. It usually smells in them and the staff look like football hooligans. Why does Apple need a middle-man retailer anyway?

Not too fussed about the carrier to be honest, they're all much alike: thieving rip-off merchants with deliberately poor customer service. Although I have heard good things about 3 in the past.

[whooleytoo]

I was picking some new Macs up for a friend at.. an O2 store here, and was suprised just how Mac-centric the shops are. Even though it's an official phone network store, roughly half the store is selling music players (mostly iPods), accessories and Macs.

The large flat-screens over the counter had impressive demo videos going through the iLife applications and their features, not selling phones! It was as impressive as many Apple Stores.

Given all this, you'd have to wonder if O2 didn't already have a "foot in the door" in this deal.

[Project]

I was picking some new Macs up for a friend at.. an O2 store here, and was suprised just how Mac-centric the shops are. Even though it's an official phone network store, roughly half the store is selling music players (mostly iPods), accessories and Macs.

The large flat-screens over the counter had impressive demo videos going through the iLife applications and their features, not selling phones! It was as impressive as many Apple Stores.

Given all this, you'd have to wonder if O2 didn't already have a "foot in the door" in this deal.

o2 sell Macs?

[whooleytoo]

o2 sell Macs?

Yup - not only do they sell Macs & iPods but they're better setup, presented and advertised than at any other store I've been to. Often I've walked by and none of the window advertising is phone related, it's all iPod & Mac advertising & promotions.

[Donnacha]

Yup - not only do they sell Macs & iPods but they're better setup, presented and advertised than at any other store I've been to. Often I've walked by and none of the window advertising is phone related, it's all iPod & Mac advertising & promotions.
Sure, but you live in Cork, Ireland, which, as Apple's European service and manufacturing center, is an unusually pro-Apple town - it make sense for them to sell Apple stuff on the side. I don't recollect them doing the same elsewhere in Ireland or here in the UK.

[Donnacha]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2007/07/06/cniphone106.xml

:rolleyes:

Let's hope not, again it would mean Vodafone would not win the carrier deal as CPW no longer supply Vodafone contracts.
No, this is just a re-hash of CPW quotes from a few days ago, typically lazy journalism from the Telegraph.

The only new info is that Vodafone's stock dropped 1% on "rumors" that they'd lost the iphone but you can be pretty sure that most of those selling their shares are doing so based on pretty solid info.

In situations like this, both Vodafone and T-Mobile's hands are tied with regard to official announcements/press releases etc, but word gets out and that is what prompts a one-day drop as big as that.

[whooleytoo]

Sure, but you live in Cork, Ireland, which, as Apple's European service and manufacturing center, is an unusually pro-Apple town - it make sense for them to sell Apple stuff on the side. I don't recollect them doing the same elsewhere in Ireland or here in the UK.

In theory that sounds great, but in practice Cork can be a dreadful place to buy Macs & Apple gear.

Perhaps though it is just individual O2 stores, but I doubt it. I can't imagine any one branch spending so much on customised Apple lighting/displays, on multimedia info/advertising videos, and the staff seemed very well informed on iPod & Mac technologies too.

[Donnacha]

In theory that sounds great, but in practice Cork can be a dreadful place to buy Macs & Apple gear.
Many cities in the UK don't have anywhere you can go and handle Macs, so, trust me, you're doing pretty well if you have a phone shop that sells them.


I can't imagine any one branch spending so much on customised Apple lighting/displays, on multimedia info/advertising videos, and the staff seemed very well informed on iPod & Mac technologies too.
The managers of pretty much all phone shops are under tremendous pressure, every day, to do whatever it takes to increase profits. If, as seems likely, a higher than the average percentage (5%) of Corkonians use Macs or even work for Apple, it makes sense to use that as a device to attract interest. If someone rolls in the door to have a play with the new imac or whatever, you might be able to sell them a phone. In Manchester, they sells football club merchandise in phone shops; here in Edinburgh, all the female staff are forced to work naked.

As for the staff being very well-informed, again, it's going to be much easier to hire staff who are Apple-aware in Cork than, say, Wexford.

[ictiosapiens]

In reply to some posts... First of all I don't want to bankrupt apple and my temptation to go for a Samsung is not an attempt to bankrupt them. I have every piece of Apple equipment and gadget at home and I'm very satisfied. But I hate their IPhone selling practices.

A good company should try to encourage the market to give more choice to consumers. What Apple is doing with the Iphone sounds more like Microsoft practice. It's probably true that power corrupts.

Of course I like the Iphone better than many other phones, but I won't let a hardware maker decide on service providers for me. This is my freedom and my choice. I want to get the service provider that I feel is best for me. Not for Apple's profits. If I get a company that costs 30% more than one of my choice, parts of it will go to Apple. But didn't I pay the full price for the hardware when I purchased the phone?

As for 3G and what I need to do with it, it's quite simple. First of all video. I want to be able to download quality video. Then I want the phone to act as a modem for my MacBook Pro. Then I want to download mail attachments with large pictures. And I want to surf the net very fast.

I'm not asking for too much because the technology has been out there and the fact that the 3G chip would be too large or drain batteries sounds like complete bull to me. How does competition come out with smaller phones that have 3G, good battery life, and even GPS in some cases?

It looks like Apple's choice is dictated by one element: the $30 or so in savings they get by using old technology leftovers. If that was the only sacrifice I had to make for their profit I would probably give in. But I feel they ask too much for.

The Iphone is a great telephone and I'm sure it's fine to many. But I feel that its price plus the expensive voice and data plans that Apple forces you to take will end up making a hefty difference in one year. A difference that could buy me a Macbook. And most importantly, I don't think that this way of selling should be encouraged at all.

If all phone makers learned from Apple we would no longer have a choice of service. Then why not have a large monopoly in the first place?

I missed this great post. Excellent points raised IMO. If they want to charge the equivalent of $599, apple should just sell it on the apple store and let us choose operators. (let the operator decide if they want to support visual voice mail and that way they would be competing for the iphone buyers)

[Manic Mouse]

Best post today. IMHO. If they want to charge the equivalent of $599, apple should just sell it on the apple store and let us choose operators. (let the operator decide if they want to support visual voice mail and that way they would be competing for the iphone buyers)

Yup, totally agree. It's absolutely insane(ly greedy) that Apple get a cut of your contract. It's not like they're not already making over 50% profit on the hardware (they cost $265 to make).

[Project]

Yup, totally agree. It's absolutely insane(ly greedy) that Apple get a cut of your contract. It's not like they're not already making over 50% profit on the hardware (they cost $265 to make).

Completely disagree.

The iPhone is not being subsidised by AT&T, which means that they make a bigger cut from an iPhone sale than they would any other phone they sell that they subsidise. Hence the reason for taking a small % of the monthly contract fees (which other manufacturers do, namely RIM)

Your profit margin fails to take into account production, r&d, software development, distribution, marketing, sales, support and a whole host of other costs that go into making a phone.

[Donnacha]

I'm amazed at the extent to which a lot of (clearly very clever) people on this forum are misunderstanding what Apple is doing here.

Steve Jobs has indicated (sorry, I can't find the link) that exclusive partnering is a short-term strategy necessary to establish the iphone and break the strangle-hold of the telcos over the manufacturers.

You can be 100% sure that, as a manufacturer, Jobs agrees with you that, if you have paid for your device, you should be able to use it with any network you want, just like a computer.

Unfortunately, in the mobile market as it stands, the telcos build the cost of "subsidized" phones into their tariffs. Most people aren't too smart about money and think they are somehow getting a "free" phone but, of course, they are actually paying through the nose for devices that the telcos force the manufacturers to cripple. Essentially, the telco becomes the manufacturer's sole customer, giving them way too much power. This situation seriously castrated early leaders such as Nokia.

What Apple is shooting for is a situation in which the telco essentially becomes a commodity supplier of connectivity and bandwidth, with no control over who you buy your music or other services from. Of course, the telcos absolutely do not want to cede this control because being a commodity supplier is far, far less profitable. Uniquely, however, Apple is in a position to threaten them with a more immediate threat: losing massive market share, right now, to a hated competitor.

Believe me, this situation has driven all the top telco executives insane - even the winner is ultimately looking down the barrel of a gun. What do you think is going to happen in 2 years when their exclusivity agreement finishes?

You are going to have a market in which customers have become accustomed to far more freedom, flat-rate data plans, lower call costs (because an over-inflated "cost" of the phone is no longer factored in) and no-one is going to be willing to step back into a telco-controlled environment. Suddenly, any telco will be able to provide service to your iphone but not control it - you will be buying your iphone and, then, separately, carefully selecting the best telco and plan for it. That is a serious revolution.

And what do Apple get out of this? Suddenly, if the decision to buy a new phone is completely divorced from the network you use or the current time left on your connectivity contract, it becomes a great deal easier to buy the latest and greatest iphone on the day it's released, just like buying an ipod or Mac!

The initial period of exclusivity is, unfortunately, the only way to break the backs of the telcos. You should all be rejoicing that someone has the vision, balls clout to pull it off.

I respect the concerns raised here but, really, think about it: all of this is necessary and, in the long-run, seriously good news.

[Manic Mouse]

I'm amazed at the extent to which a lot of (clearly very clever) people on this forum are misunderstanding what Apple is doing here.

Steve Jobs has indicated (sorry, I can't find the link) that exclusive partnering is a short-term strategy necessary to establish the iphone and break the strangle-hold of the telcos over the manufacturers.

You can be 100% sure that, as a manufacturer, Jobs agrees with you that, if you have paid for your device, you should be able to use it with any network you want, just like a computer.

Unfortunately, in the mobile market as it stands, the telcos build the cost of "subsidized" phones into their tariffs. Most people aren't too smart about money and think they are somehow getting a "free" phone but, of course, they are actually paying through the nose for devices that the telcos force the manufacturers to cripple. Essentially, the telco becomes the manufacturer's sole customer, giving them way too much power. This situation seriously castrated early leaders such as Nokia.

What Apple is shooting for is a situation in which the telco essentially becomes a commodity supplier of connectivity and bandwidth, with no control over who you buy your music or other services from. Of course, the telcos absolutely do not want to cede this control because being a commodity supplier is far, far less profitable. Uniquely, however, Apple is in a position to threaten them with a more immediate threat: losing massive market share, right now, to a hated competitor.

Believe me, this situation has driven all the top telco executives insane - even the winner is ultimately looking down the barrel of a gun. What do you think is going to happen in 2 years when their exclusivity agreement finishes?

You are going to have a market in which customers have become accustomed to far more freedom, flat-rate data plans, lower call costs (because an over-inflated "cost" of the phone is no longer factored in) and no-one is going to be willing to step back into a telco-controlled environment. Suddenly, any telco will be able to provide service to your iphone but not control it - you will be buying your iphone and, then, separately, carefully selecting the best telco and plan for it. That is a serious revolution.

The initial period of exclusivity is, unfortunately, the only way to break the back to the telcos. You should all be rejoicing that someone has the vision, balls clout to pull it off.

I respect the concerns raised here but, really, think about it: all of this is necessary and, in the long-run, seriously good news.

Good points. I should probably have more faith in Apple...

[lstdonsldr]

what do you think the possibilities of using the European T-mobile with a US T-Mobile SIM Card?

[Project]

I'm amazed at the extent to which a lot of (clearly very clever) people on this forum are misunderstanding what Apple is doing here.

Steve Jobs has indicated (sorry, I can't find the link) that exclusive partnering is a short-term strategy necessary to establish the iphone and break the strangle-hold of the telcos over the manufacturers.

You can be 100% sure that, as a manufacturer, Jobs agrees with you that, if you have paid for your device, you should be able to use it with any network you want, just like a computer.

Unfortunately, in the mobile market as it stands, the telcos build the cost of "subsidized" phones into their tariffs. Most people aren't too smart about money and think they are somehow getting a "free" phone but, of course, they are actually paying through the nose for devices that the telcos force the manufacturers to cripple. Essentially, the telco becomes the manufacturer's sole customer, giving them way too much power. This situation seriously castrated early leaders such as Nokia.

What Apple is shooting for is a situation in which the telco essentially becomes a commodity supplier of connectivity and bandwidth, with no control over who you buy your music or other services from. Of course, the telcos absolutely do not want to cede this control because being a commodity supplier is far, far less profitable. Uniquely, however, Apple is in a position to threaten them with a more immediate threat: losing massive market share, right now, to a hated competitor.

Believe me, this situation has driven all the top telco executives insane - even the winner is ultimately looking down the barrel of a gun. What do you think is going to happen in 2 years when their exclusivity agreement finishes?

You are going to have a market in which customers have become accustomed to far more freedom, flat-rate data plans, lower call costs (because an over-inflated "cost" of the phone is no longer factored in) and no-one is going to be willing to step back into a telco-controlled environment. Suddenly, any telco will be able to provide service to your iphone but not control it - you will be buying your iphone and, then, separately, carefully selecting the best telco and plan for it. That is a serious revolution.

And what do Apple get out of this? Suddenly, if the decision to buy a new phone is completely divorced from the network you use or the current time left on your connectivity contract, it becomes a great deal easier to buy the latest and greatest iphone on the day it's released, just like buying an ipod or Mac!

The initial period of exclusivity is, unfortunately, the only way to break the back to the telcos. You should all be rejoicing that someone has the vision, balls clout to pull it off.

I respect the concerns raised here but, really, think about it: all of this is necessary and, in the long-run, seriously good news.

Thumbs up.

Hence why the iPhone is a disruptive device. The theory is evidently being played out in Europe right now with Apple playing all the big telcos against each other. Its a pretty genius gameplan. I hope sales continue to be brisk and they pull it off.

[Ninja Dom]

what do you think the possibilities of using the European T-mobile with a US T-Mobile SIM Card?

Won't happen or work with the iPhone.

We have enough problems as it is with tourists who have Vodafone branded handsets from other countries and buying a UK Vodafaone Pay As You Talk Sim Card - and it ultimately not working in their foreign phones.

[Donnacha]

We have enough problems as it is with tourists who have Vodafone branded handsets from other countries and buying a UK Vodafaone Pay As You Talk Sim Card - and it ultimately not working in their foreign phones.
Which is why I always buy unlocked phones.

[ictiosapiens]

I'm amazed at the extent to which a lot of (clearly very clever) people on this forum are misunderstanding what Apple is doing here.

Steve Jobs has indicated (sorry, I can't find the link) that exclusive partnering is a short-term strategy necessary to establish the iphone and break the strangle-hold of the telcos over the manufacturers.

You can be 100% sure that, as a manufacturer, Jobs agrees with you that, if you have paid for your device, you should be able to use it with any network you want, just like a computer.

Unfortunately, in the mobile market as it stands, the telcos build the cost of "subsidized" phones into their tariffs. Most people aren't too smart about money and think they are somehow getting a "free" phone but, of course, they are actually paying through the nose for devices that the telcos force the manufacturers to cripple. Essentially, the telco becomes the manufacturer's sole customer, giving them way too much power. This situation seriously castrated early leaders such as Nokia.

What Apple is shooting for is a situation in which the telco essentially becomes a commodity supplier of connectivity and bandwidth, with no control over who you buy your music or other services from. Of course, the telcos absolutely do not want to cede this control because being a commodity supplier is far, far less profitable. Uniquely, however, Apple is in a position to threaten them with a more immediate threat: losing massive market share, right now, to a hated competitor.

Believe me, this situation has driven all the top telco executives insane - even the winner is ultimately looking down the barrel of a gun. What do you think is going to happen in 2 years when their exclusivity agreement finishes?

You are going to have a market in which customers have become accustomed to far more freedom, flat-rate data plans, lower call costs (because an over-inflated "cost" of the phone is no longer factored in) and no-one is going to be willing to step back into a telco-controlled environment. Suddenly, any telco will be able to provide service to your iphone but not control it - you will be buying your iphone and, then, separately, carefully selecting the best telco and plan for it. That is a serious revolution.

And what do Apple get out of this? Suddenly, if the decision to buy a new phone is completely divorced from the network you use or the current time left on your connectivity contract, it becomes a great deal easier to buy the latest and greatest iphone on the day it's released, just like buying an ipod or Mac!

The initial period of exclusivity is, unfortunately, the only way to break the backs of the telcos. You should all be rejoicing that someone has the vision, balls clout to pull it off.

I respect the concerns raised here but, really, think about it: all of this is necessary and, in the long-run, seriously good news.

You do make sense, but let's brake down an average contract:
Say, an o2 N95 for instance...

Price of the handset= £0
Monthly fee= £25(+£7-£10 for data) 12 month contract= £300 (+£120 if interested in data)

Grand total(including voice(50 mins, and 200 texts, data and phone)= £420 and in 12 months time having the option of getting a new handset for free.

An N95 unlocked(as O2 provides it) on its own, is £499 from Nokia and other retailers.

The networks get the phones at prices unimaginable for consumers due to the volume at which they buy.

So, really, I don't see how we could win, by paying £XXX for the handset, and then signing up to a monthly plan, regardless of how cheap it is.

Oh, and the price of the handset being £0 is based on actually going to the network shop and negotiating a bit...

[Project]

You do make sense, but let's brake down an average contract:
Say, an o2 N95 for instance...

Price of the handset= £0
Monthly fee= £25(+£7-£10 for data) 12 month contract= £300 (+£120 if interested in data)

Grand total(including voice(50 mins, and 200 texts, data and phone)= £420 and in 12 months time having the option of getting a new handset for free.

An N95 unlocked(as O2 provides it) on its own, is £499 from Nokia and other retailers.

The networks get the phones at prices unimaginable for consumers due to the volume at which they buy.

So, really, I don't see how we could win, by paying £XXX for the handset, and then signing up to a monthly plan, regardless of how cheap it is.

Oh, and the price of the handset being £0 is based on actually going to the network shop and negotiating a bit...

Your figures are wrong. You wont find a free N95 for £25 a month. Its only free on a £50 a month contract. If you want a £25 a month contract on O2 for the N95, you have to pay £250 up front.

[ictiosapiens]

Your figures are wrong. You wont find a free N95 for £25 a month. Its only free on a £50 a month contract. If you want a £25 a month contract on O2 for the N95, you have to pay £250 up front.

Like I said on my earlier post, you will on the shop if you negotiate.(I did)
Hell, my girfriend got it for free on an upgrade, on a £30 tariff and with VODAFONE!!!(hint: not the cheapest network)

If you are not into that, you can always take it on a £50 and change it in 3 months, which would add £60 to your yearly total, which still makes it cheaper that buying it from nokia, and you'd get quite a few minutes...

[Donnacha]

You do make sense, but let's brake down an average contract:
Say, an o2 N95 for instance...

Price of the handset= £0
Monthly fee= £25(+£7-£10 for data) 12 month contract= £300 (+£120 if interested in data)

Grand total(including voice(50 mins, and 200 texts, data and phone)= £420 and in 12 months time having the option of getting a new handset for free.

An N95 unlocked(as O2 provides it) on its own, is £499 from Nokia and other retailers.

The networks get the phones at prices unimaginable for consumers due to the volume at which they buy.

So, really, I don't see how we could win, by paying £XXX for the handset, and then signing up to a monthly plan, regardless of how cheap it is.

Oh, and the price of the handset being £0 is based on actually going to the network shop and negotiating a bit...

Okay, let's use this example to get an idea of how Apple's manouevres are working in our interests, rather than against them. Obviously, this situation is far from black and white, so, we should bear in mind that we're probably both a little bit right and a little bit wrong.

You can currently buy an N95 online, unlocked and new from an established retailer for around £380 inc VAT and my guess is that Nokia are retailing them for around £260 not inc VAT. A telco with 02's massive customer base is probably paying around £150 per unit and, at the end of the day, that's probably what Nokia gets for the vast majority of N95 it produces, unlocked sales representing an extremely rare opportunity to make a real profit.

This squeeze means that Nokia and the other manufacturers don't have anywhere near as much money as they would like to spend on R&D and they certainly don't have the margin for error that would allow them to take true risks.

It also means that we, as customers, are essentially getting £100 worth of components in our "£499" phone.

Now, in the case of the iphone, because it isn't coming to us via the pricing illusion machine of the telcos, what you're actually getting is a phone that represents ...

A. a huge R&D invest that no manufacturer feeding from the existing system could ever afford but that Apple could because they are flush with ipod case AND they have no intention of accepting the existing system...

B. a massive risk that no other manufacturer would be cocky enough and, to be fair, skilled enough to take.

C. a bundle of components that are pretty much match the cost of the phone, because we already know that Apple are taking a much slimmer than usual margin on the phone in order to break into this market, because their ipod cash reserve allows them too, and because, like the console makers, they also know that component costs will lower throughout the life of this model, particularly if, as they are gambling, it's a big success.

No, we may or may not agree on whether the iphone is a better phone than the N95, but I feel it is and that it reflects it's, say, £200 + VAT "true" cost, just as the N95 reflects it's £100 + VAT "true" cost.

One of my main arguments against buying through the telcos is that I don't want some lying **** telling me that I'm getting a "free" phone worth £499 when I know they paid £150 and, because of their stranglehold, the manufacturers couldn't even afford a decent amount of R&D.

Now, I don't know about your figures, you must have gotten some sort of special deal from O2 but, according to their website, the N95 is only free if I spend £45 per month on a minutes and text package, DATA NOT INCLUDED:

£30 x 24 months, 600 mins 1000 txts, £90 for the phone

£35 x 24 months, 800 mins 1000 txts, £50 for the phone

£45 x 24 months, 1200 mins 1000 txts, phone is FREE

Now, if we were to go for a SIM only deal (still on a monthly contract), we discover that o2 are actually charging us an additional £10 or £15 per month for the phone, meaning an additional £240 or £360 for the phone for which we have already have paid £90, £50 or gotten for free. This means that we are essentially paying the current retail price for a phone that they bought for half the price - exactly the same sort of outrageous mark-up that the hire-purchase cowboys have been charging people with poor mathematical abilities for years. Subsidized my arse.

NOW, HERE'S THE REAL KILLER, THE AREA WHERE APPLE MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE: DATA.

When you buy an N95, at any tariff, o2 will sell you a £3 per month data "bolt-on" which will give you ... wait for it ...

... 2MB of data. Per month.

Want an extra MB? Possibly download a few dozen emails or look at a couple of webpages?

That'll be an extra £3 per ****ing MB, my friend.

And these retards wonder why 3G hasn't taken off in the mainstream!

O2 don't do unlimited (which, in current telco terms, means a fair use cap of around 3GB), so, for the kind of unlimited access Apple are insisting upon, left to their own devices o2 would have charged you somewhere in the region of £9000 per month.

Do you see the problem here?

Do you understand now why the telcos have to be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the new century?

I just noticed, in their business section, that they offer up to 1GB for £45 + VAT per month but, in real terms, that's still in cloud cuckoo land.

Here's the deal that will let you know that we, the consumer, have, with Apple's help, won:

£39 inc VAT x 24 months, 450 mins, 5000 txts, UNLIMITED 3G DATA and we'll buy our own damn phone, thank you very much.

Then, in 2 years, when the exclusive deal lapses, just watch the prices tumble as every telco scrambles to get into the commodity 4G connectivity game - Game, Set and Match to Apple, Us and our Shiny, New, Cutting-Edge iPhones :D

[yagran]

Then, in 2 years, when the exclusive deal lapses, just watch the prices tumble as every telco scrambles to get into the commodity 4G connectivity game - Game, Set and Match to Apple, Us and our Shiny, New, Cutting-Edge iPhones :D

there by giving apple an almost monoply hold over the market as they do with the mp3 player market. is that really good for the consumer you must ask?

[Donnacha]

there by giving apple an almost monoply hold over the market as they do with the mp3 player market. is that really good for the consumer you must ask?
How does Apple forcing the carriers to charge a reasonable amount, abandon their proprietary content-locks and create a mass market for commodity-priced mobile broadband hurt the other manufacturers, anymore than the ipod's mainstreaming of MP3-players hurt the other manufacturers, other than forcing them to raise their game?

Sure, the ipod dominates the MP3-player market, but it does so on merit and brand trust; I think you misunderstand the actual meaning of the term "monopoly".

The eco-system and mainstream acceptance that the ipod has played a large part in creating has, however, has benefited all the other MP3-player manufacturers. The iphone will have the same disruptive but ultimately beneficial effect on mobile broadband device manufacturers.

[princealfie]

Hmmm.... You are in the market for a zunephone? Evidently the question is what's the point of being on this forum if you don't want the iPhone to have a larger market share?

there by giving apple an almost monoply hold over the market as they do with the mp3 player market. is that really good for the consumer you must ask?

[braisim]

The situation is indeed not black and white. Yes, the telcos' marketing methods can short-change the consumer. But to pretend that Nokia and the like are not making money on subsidised handsets is nonsense. Have you seen the recent financials from Nokia, SE? On the other hand, Apple just want a bigger slice of the pie. That is the only reason they want to sign up carriers on exclusive deals (which does NOT work in the consumer's favour, at least not directly). They want to replicate a little bit the iPod model, which gives Apple a big say/share in distribution/day-to-day use of the device. Let's salute Apple for bringing out an innovative new machine, which carries, by the way, a huge estimated profit margin. But let's be realistic and accept that the best possible benefit is that it will force other manufacturers such as Nokia, SE, Samsung, etc., to raise their game and bring out effective competitors. And if these prove to be successful, then perhaps it will persuade Apple to drop their insistence on exclusive deals. And then perhaps we will be allowed to buy unlocked devices at reasonable prices and shop around for the best operator for our needs. That is surely the best arrangement for consumers.

[Yixian]

Orange is the most international of EU carriers, but O2 is lightyears better when it comes to mobile internet deals and customer services.

I'm with O2 right now, so this is the best godamn news I could have heard. This means I can sell my measly PEBL and get a bad boy iPhone right away rather than pay off the contract first.

[Tom B.]

UK iPhone Carrier: Announced at Store?
Steve Jobs visited the Regent Street store on Sunday, leading to speculation that he’s in town to finalize an exclusive iPhone contract with an undisclosed UK cellular carrier. After the success of the iPhone in the United States, carriers are reportedly torn between the additional revenue that an iPhone deal would bring, and the strict conditions and low margin that Apple is demanding. Perhaps we’ll know soon: the Regent Street Concierge bar will be closed next Monday, July 16th, allowing Jobs the perfect opportunity to announce the UK iPhone deal at the store.

I'm getting excited! :D

Here's the link to the original article. (http://www.ifoapplestore.com/2007/07/09/uk-iphone-carrier-announced-at-store)

[phatspider]

I'm getting excited! :D

Here's the link to the original article. (http://www.ifoapplestore.com/2007/07/09/uk-iphone-carrier-announced-at-store)

I thought Arun Sarin may have entertained him at the Grand Prix on Sunday but didnt see him there

[twad74]

I have gotten it confirmed that Apple is in the final phases of testing an iPhone with 3G and a 5mp camera for the european market. My source is very credible and works for one of the subcontractors actually manufacturing components for the iPod and iPhone (among them the 3G chip in the EU iPhone.). Although he said that it's unlikely for them to be able to ship greater volumes before christmas.

just my 5p. ;)

cheers

[emotion]

I have gotten it confirmed that Apple is in the final phases of testing an iPhone with 3G and a 5mp camera for the european market. My source is very credible and works for one of the subcontractors actually manufacturing components for the iPod and iPhone (among them the 3G chip in the EU iPhone.). Although he said that it's unlikely for them to be able to ship greater volumes before christmas.


I hope you're right but somehow the 5MP detail makes me believe otherwise.

[xUKHCx]

I hope you're right but somehow the 5MP detail makes me believe otherwise.

ditto as well as the fact that this is the persons first ever post

however 5MP it is not beyond the realms of possibility

[emotion]

ditto as well as the fact that this is the persons first ever post

however 5MP it is not beyond the realms of possibility


Indeed (ie nokia N95). Esp. come november this will be quite common.

However given Apple's tendency to go for lower specs I'd believe 3MP more.

[BKKbill]

I have gotten it confirmed that Apple is in the final phases of testing an iPhone with 3G and a 5mp camera for the european market. My source is very credible and works for one of the subcontractors actually manufacturing components for the iPod and iPhone (among them the 3G chip in the EU iPhone.). Although he said that it's unlikely for them to be able to ship greater volumes before christmas.

just my 5p. ;)

cheers

Really and 5 Mp camera call me a doubting Tomas. But a good read.

[twad74]

I understand your scepticism. I myself would react in the same way. And ofcourse this is a nonconfirmed rumor for anyone but me who heard it first hand.

As someone said before 5mp will be standard come november. Nokia has it in the N95 and SE just released K850i so to compete with them it's a must.

In Januari I'll get mine with 3..

cheers.

[PowerFullMac]

Right, although nothing been signed, we know that the iPhone will eather be on 02 or Vodafone for the UK relese BUT the only network that supports EDGE in the UK is Orange. So the iPhone will have to work on GPRS, even SLOWER then EDGE. I was just thinking that mabee Apple would somehow get 3G before the UK relese, or we will have pre-dial-up speeds.

Just a thought.

[iBlue]

I thought vodafone told Apple to shove it?

[PowerFullMac]

My mistake, 02 then. Eather way no one mentioned Orange and I dont think any network will start providing EDGE just for the iPhone.

[twad74]

Ok, now I'm only guessing here. But since I'm not a UK resident I was just considering the options for Apple when it comes to choosing which company to partner up with. It would be devastating for the brand if they only went with one partner throughout europe thus there is a need for two or more. Logically speaking (as in "if I was Apple") you'd try to get the number of partners down to a minimum. So, if we look at the larger operators in europe we end up with Vodafone, 3, T-mobile, Telefonica, Orange and maybe one or two more. So, if you combine two maybe three of those to get the best coverage throughout europe you'd end up with Vodafone, 3 and Orange (just because the froggies are lightyears behind everyone else..).. This combination would actually give you 3g coverage in all of western europe thus beeing the logical choice (as I said "if I were Apple")..

Just a theoretical statement. But if you take into account that Apple considers UK and "rest of europe" as separate markets they may very well do something special in the UK.

cheers