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MacRumors
Jul 5, 2007, 06:27 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Hrmpf notes (http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/131/apple-extending-multi-touch-to-mice) that Apple has applied for a patent (in March 2006) which extends the concept of Multitouch to a computer mouse.

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/07/05/mmouse_300.png

The user would be able to perform gestures such as pinching or a virtual scroll wheel on the surface of the mouse. In one embodiment, the touch-sensitive mouse would use an internal light source and a optically transmissive surface to track finger positions.

Gestures can also be used to invoke and manipulate virtual control interfaces, such as volume knobs, switches, sliders, handles, knobs, doors, and other widgets that may be created to facilitate human interaction with the computing system.

Combinations of taps or gestures could trigger different actions such as "tapping with the middle and ring fingers could open iTunes or be set in the preference panel to do any particular action."

Apple has had a number of patent applications related to multitouch technology in the past, and features multitouch technology prominently on the Apple iPhone.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/05/apple-investigating-mulittouch-mouse/)



Much Ado
Jul 5, 2007, 06:28 AM
Very nice.

Multi-touch is going big, fast.


<<EDIT: That's not to say we'll necessarily see this in production any time soon, however.>>

xUKHCx
Jul 5, 2007, 06:29 AM
Very interesting, they are probably putting multi touch every where to see where it will truly advance the user experience or not.

P.s sort out the original article

Schtumple
Jul 5, 2007, 06:32 AM
looks cool but i guess it might be a bit confusing to use at first

samh004
Jul 5, 2007, 06:32 AM
I'd buy that, then again, I also bought the first mighty mouse and that stopped working properly fast. Hopefully this technology would be better.

Looks like the perfect evolution of the technology, and I wouldn't be surprised to see others using it too, soon.

Tsurisuto
Jul 5, 2007, 06:34 AM
Now this is why I love Apple! The innovation that comes out of the company is amazing. I HATE the current scroll wheel, and was very disappointed that you can't open up the mouse to clean it properly. I was hoping they update it with a click wheel instead, but this design seems 10x better.

dashboard
Jul 5, 2007, 06:36 AM
While I agree that the multi-touch mouse might be hard to use at first, it is probably a much better/easier alternative to having a multi-touch screen, as that might require a redesign of the ergonomic layout of apple's desktops

xUKHCx
Jul 5, 2007, 06:36 AM
Now this is why I love Apple! The innovation that comes out of the company is amazing. I HATE the current scroll wheel, and was very disappointed that you can't open up the mouse to clean it properly. I was hoping they update it with a click wheel instead, but this design seems 10x better.

Would go back to the "one" button mouse. Would really cause all those windows users mental problems.

bigbadnewill
Jul 5, 2007, 06:39 AM
This does seem proper good, just been rubbing my mouse in the fashion that i imagine we would have to. If it's done properly it will be amazing!!!

Would be great if they include it with the new imac which will hopefully be released soon! :)

shiunn
Jul 5, 2007, 06:40 AM
with this multitouch, all we need is 1 button.

whooleytoo
Jul 5, 2007, 06:40 AM
I'm willing to bet this is one of those patents that goes nowhere.

I can't see how this would work well.. most people rest their hands on the mouse, they'd have to lift them off to perform a pinch/flick, then back resting on the mouse again. Plus, unlike an iPhone screen, the potential for accidental gestures is fairly high.

Much Ado
Jul 5, 2007, 06:41 AM
just been rubbing my mouse in the fashion that i imagine we would have to.

I think we all have ;)

Ludde
Jul 5, 2007, 06:46 AM
This looks really sweet! Might actually make me buy an external mouse to my Macbook if this goes into production :)

aquafina
Jul 5, 2007, 06:53 AM
This...From the company that for years wouldn't give us a two button mouse because it would be "too complicated for the average user"

bigbadnewill
Jul 5, 2007, 06:54 AM
This does seem proper good, just been rubbing my mouse in the fashion that i imagine we would have to. If it's done properly it will be amazing!!!

Would be great if they include it with the new imac which will hopefully be released soon! :)

I think we all have ;)

I must admit, it did make me smile a little bit as i rubbed it :eek:

unxmaal
Jul 5, 2007, 06:56 AM
Upon reading that title, I was hoping Apple was releasing a more redneck-friendly version of their mouse -- possibly something in camo instead of white, with a beer holder.

Business in the front, party in the back.

ABM
Jul 5, 2007, 07:00 AM
looks cool but i guess it might be a bit confusing to use at first

What was about the very first mouse? ;)

mooty
Jul 5, 2007, 07:01 AM
definately gonna come with the new iMac and iLife 08 :p :p

hdasmith
Jul 5, 2007, 07:03 AM
I can't see how this would work well.. most people rest their hands on the mouse, they'd have to lift them off to perform a pinch/flick, then back resting on the mouse again. Plus, unlike an iPhone screen, the potential for accidental gestures is fairly high.

Really? I can't rest my hand on the mouse, my hand's too big (and I'm only 5'10")! Instead, I rest my fingers on the button, and thumb and another finger grab the side. Gives me ample room for moving my fingers to the scroll wheel, or to give gestures.

On my mighty mouse, I could easily move my index and middle finger to make a pinching/separating movement or to scroll without moving any other finger or my hand.

the vj
Jul 5, 2007, 07:03 AM
Even the mighty mouse is a pain to use, I disconnected the side buttons because sometimes I grabb the mouse and I get all application exposed without mean it, imagine adding more functions when the fingers usually express emotions themselves when you are stressed out or something.

I use the mighty mouse as a regular mouse, even the little ball stoped working long time ago.

Apple is in a situation here because they are trying to go around the touchscreen technology.

I have a custom 30" apple cinema screen with touch screen. It cost me almost $5.000 and it stoped working 3 months later.

The actual problem apple is facing is that not all the application works with touchscreen because their icons are so small. For example, to choose one of the Smilies of this web site would be a pain or all the options we have in the menues to create links and so. That is why touchscreen for apple wouldn't work for everyone.

Having a mouse with the capabilities... you have all your fingers over that surface all the time doing stuff by themselves, it will drive me crazy, with a touchscreen you just go and press on top of what you want.

Is going to be a complicated case and Apple have been working around that for years since the rumors of the tablet.

Good luck

aLoC
Jul 5, 2007, 07:06 AM
Good luck Apple. Not so great at keyboards and mice in the past...
Have to admit my iMac has MS keyboard and mouse :o

whooleytoo
Jul 5, 2007, 07:11 AM
Really? I can't rest my hand on the mouse, my hand's too big (and I'm only 5'10")! Instead, I rest my fingers on the button, and thumb and another finger grab the side. Gives me ample room for moving my fingers to the scroll wheel, or to give gestures.

On my mighty mouse, I could easily move my index and middle finger to make a pinching/separating movement or to scroll without moving any other finger or my hand.

I guess my hands are about average (haven't thought about it that much! :p ), but I rest the palm of my hand on the rear of the mouse, hold it between my thumb and little finger and use my index & middle fingers to click the buttons/use the scroll wheel.

Like this, it'd be very uncomfortable to do pinching actions without lifting my hand off mostly or entirely off the mouse.

Macnoviz
Jul 5, 2007, 07:19 AM
those fingers look really distorted, but I think that multi-touch will definitly be big in the future, although perhaps the mouse is not the best platform for it. A multi-touch secondary screen on the keyboard, on the other might be more natural

lofight
Jul 5, 2007, 07:26 AM
cool, hopely it won't wost very much, because a mighty mouse with a cord already costs 29,99

GroundLoop
Jul 5, 2007, 07:26 AM
those fingers look really distorted, but I think that multi-touch will definitly be big in the future, although perhaps the mouse is not the best platform for it. A multi-touch secondary screen on the keyboard, on the other might be more natural

Honestly, I can see something like this working with a laptop trackpad, but not a mouse. The curvature of the mouse casing would make it very difficult to use.

Now, if apple created a flat "mouse" that was essentially a slightly larger than the average trackpad, they could have something. You could think of it as a small, finger operated, Wacom tablet.

Hickman

rrrr
Jul 5, 2007, 07:31 AM
This pic looks like a mini-mini-mini-version of the Microsoft Surface Computer ;)

macintel4me
Jul 5, 2007, 07:37 AM
I just can't see Apple doing something half-baked as putting multi-touch into a trackpad or mouse. The gorgeous user experience of having a multi-touch screen is the direct connection between human and computer.

In summary, a multi-touch screen without the screen is somewhat useful, but far form the Apple level of "insanely great".

DoFoT9
Jul 5, 2007, 07:39 AM
i think this is a really great idea!!!! it would take a long time to get used to using it tho, wait its by apple i think it might be pretty easy to use. i think its a really good idea. does this help to reveal any leopard things??

notsofatjames
Jul 5, 2007, 07:40 AM
i agree with whoever said it would be like a trackpad. Instead of the current scroll ball on the MM, you could stroke 2 fingers down the mouse to scroll, just like apples trackpads. They might even remove the whole mechanical button thing on mice, and just replace it with touch buttons. Like on some mobile phones (LG Chocolate is it? called something like that, and of course the iPhone has no buttons, but thats a different concept because your touching the screen). Tap 2 fingers to right click, tap one to click. I don't think a pinch motion would be very easy to use though. But a swipe may bring new ideas to how we view things on our computer. A swipe could change page in a .pdf, or move to the next slide/photo in a slideshow (like iPhone). But I have to agree a mouse is an awkward shape to be doing funny sorts of gestures on it.

psychofreak
Jul 5, 2007, 07:46 AM
of course the iPhone has no buttonsIt has the 'Home button' :)

Dagless
Jul 5, 2007, 07:47 AM
That sounds great! I really love my BT MightyMouse as it works better in OSX than any of my Microsoft or Razer mice, to further enhance the technology in that is music to my ears.

Roll on the UltraMouse :D

DoFoT9
Jul 5, 2007, 07:48 AM
i agree with whoever said it would be like a trackpad. Instead of the current scroll ball on the MM, you could stroke 2 fingers down the mouse to scroll, just like apples trackpads. They might even remove the whole mechanical button thing on mice, and just replace it with touch buttons. Like on some mobile phones (LG Chocolate is it? called something like that, and of course the iPhone has no buttons, but thats a different concept because your touching the screen). Tap 2 fingers to right click, tap one to click. I don't think a pinch motion would be very easy to use though. But a swipe may bring new ideas to how we view things on our computer. A swipe could change page in a .pdf, or move to the next slide/photo in a slideshow (like iPhone). But I have to agree a mouse is an awkward shape to be doing funny sorts of gestures on it.

removing the scroll buttons i think would be a very good idea by apple. those things are really buggy and often get caught up with dust and stuff. i think the idea of the pinch mouse would be really easy and simplistic to use, could take a bit of geting used to tho.

do you still move the mouse around physcailly or do you just roll your thumb?? i would like that idea

PlaceofDis
Jul 5, 2007, 07:48 AM
bring on a multi touch mouse. sounds interesting.

but i think a device more like a keyboard would be a bit more suited.
both hands. OLED screen. changes according to the app in use.
think that super expensive keyboard (i forget the name) but multitouch.
/drool.

even though i know its not going to happen i can dream.

MrSmith
Jul 5, 2007, 07:49 AM
If it was 100% finger swipes (like a standalone track pad) it would be great, but if it required one moment having your hand resting over the mouse to use the buttons and the next bringing your fingers up to stroke the mouse that would not be good. Just trying that now gave me the first hint of cramp.

GroundLoop
Jul 5, 2007, 07:50 AM
I just can't see Apple doing something half-baked as putting multi-touch into a trackpad or mouse. The gorgeous user experience of having a multi-touch screen is the direct connection between human and computer.

In summary, a multi-touch screen without the screen is somewhat useful, but far form the Apple level of "insanely great".

The ergonomics of a multi-touch screen are plain improper with Apple's current computer/display designs. Could you imagine keeping your arms stretched out over your desk for extended periods of time?

In order to implement a proper touchscreen, it would have to be something that would lay flat/slightly angled (such as a POS machine or old-style table-top arcade game) or be some type of thin tablet (like those computer pads that you could see on Star Trek-TNG).

Hickman

Joseph Duchesne
Jul 5, 2007, 07:56 AM
Actually the engineering behind this is exactly the same as the surface. Which Microsoft made. Starting 7 years ago. This could get them into nasty trouble with Microsoft...

SolidShadow
Jul 5, 2007, 07:57 AM
I keep thinking the best way I can see multi touch tech used to replace a mouse experience would be pretty much a wacom tablet that sits where your mouse normally would, but instead of a stylus you use your finger(s). No mouse to move around, just your hand. It would probably just take up the space that a mouse pad would normally take up.

Seems like the most ergonomic option to me since you wouldn't be holding anything and you wouldn't have to lift your hands to a screen.

RoDe
Jul 5, 2007, 07:58 AM
I hope Apple will actually built this.
This would mean such an inprovement over they're Mighty Mouse.
I'm only worried about the power usage.

badcrumble
Jul 5, 2007, 08:05 AM
I think it'd be best to keep this simple - I don't want too many gestures with my mouse. But this is a great solution for the way the Mighty Mouse scrollball gets dirty and unusable if you aren't careful.

KingofAwesome
Jul 5, 2007, 08:19 AM
bring on a multi touch mouse. sounds interesting.

but i think a device more like a keyboard would be a bit more suited.
both hands. OLED screen. changes according to the app in use.
think that super expensive keyboard (i forget the name) but multitouch.
/drool.

even though i know its not going to happen i can dream.

I'd love to see an OLED keyboard addon to replace the dock... imagine it attached above the keyboard, behaving just like your dock. Maybe a press+hold action to bring up the context menu....

On topic, though, I am skeptical about the multitouch mouse. I think they explored the idea, but won't go through to production with it and just wanted to let it be known that they did think of it (for patent purposes). They will almost certainly introduce something else with multitouch though, and I suspect that our first impression will be "that's a cool idea, but they left out too many features," and then we'll use it and love it. I hope.

macpro2000
Jul 5, 2007, 08:36 AM
I think this is Apples worst area of innovation. There hasn't been a decent mouse since the one button mouse the beige boxes had.

Rychiar
Jul 5, 2007, 08:48 AM
very cool, cus id like to know anyone who has a mighty mouse with a scroll ball that's functioned past 3 months of using it, lol. I'm on my second mouse and it no longer scrolls down:mad:

alexprice
Jul 5, 2007, 08:48 AM
OMG!! :eek: THE GOD MOUSE!

That looks amazing. Wow.

gifford
Jul 5, 2007, 09:06 AM
Watching many people slate Apples one button philosophy for years.
I have always thought they were simply thinking ahead. As forcing everyone to develop for one button mouse would mean that in the future (now) a single finger would suffice.
It would be cumbersome & hard to recognize a 'right click' gesture without forfeiting the two fingered scroll and enlarge.

ppnkg
Jul 5, 2007, 09:07 AM
Fantastic. This could be confusing to use at first, but I'll buy it as soon as it comes out.

I like how Apple is going to extremes in pursuing the idea of the one button mouse...

Reverend Wally
Jul 5, 2007, 09:19 AM
very cool, cus id like to know anyone who has a mighty mouse with a scroll ball that's functioned past 3 months of using it, lol. I'm on my second mouse and it no longer scrolls down:mad:

I have had mine since November 2006 and it has never mal-functioned.

:)

dirteemac2
Jul 5, 2007, 09:26 AM
the "touching" on the mighty mouse sucks, hows this going to be any better?

dopeytree
Jul 5, 2007, 09:26 AM
Really? I can't rest my hand on the mouse, my hand's too big (and I'm only 5'10")! Instead, I rest my fingers on the button, and thumb and another finger grab the side. Gives me ample room for moving my fingers to the scroll wheel, or to give gestures.

On my mighty mouse, I could easily move my index and middle finger to make a pinching/separating movement or to scroll without moving any other finger or my hand.

Isn't this how most people use a mouse...if you were to have your whole hand on the mouse you'd put alot of strain onto it etc???

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 5, 2007, 09:30 AM
If it was 100% finger swipes (like a standalone track pad) it would be great, but if it required one moment having your hand resting over the mouse to use the buttons and the next bringing your fingers up to stroke the mouse that would not be good. Just trying that now gave me the first hint of cramp.

yea a touch mouse would be too useless becuase you could just click to get the same effect. Just pu tit on a trackpad...

The ergonomics of a multi-touch screen are plain improper with Apple's current computer/display designs. Could you imagine keeping your arms stretched out over your desk for extended periods of time?

In order to implement a proper touchscreen, it would have to be something that would lay flat/slightly angled (such as a POS machine or old-style table-top arcade game) or be some type of thin tablet (like those computer pads that you could see on Star Trek-TNG).

Hickman

this would be an idiotic idea to have a multi touch touchscreen, i might as well get a punching bag with all that arm movement i'll be doing.

nswint
Jul 5, 2007, 09:34 AM
Hopefully this will be better than the mighty mouse. I want to throw one out of the window everytime I have to use it.

Much Ado
Jul 5, 2007, 09:37 AM
I have had mine since November 2006 and it has never mal-functioned.

:)

Mine is fine, but it is temperamental.

Dale_Nx26
Jul 5, 2007, 09:40 AM
Honestly, I can see something like this working with a laptop trackpad, but not a mouse. The curvature of the mouse casing would make it very difficult to use.

Now, if apple created a flat "mouse" that was essentially a slightly larger than the average trackpad, they could have something. You could think of it as a small, finger operated, Wacom tablet.

Hickman

Exactly as I was thinking...kinda. If Apple were to design something like this, they might as well create an add-on trackpad for use with a desktop. Or instead of buttons on a mouse, replace them with the trackpad, or a touchscreen.

Digitaljim
Jul 5, 2007, 09:40 AM
I really love my BT MightyMouse as it works better in OSX than any of my Microsoft or Razer mice


Each to their own, but I think the MM is junk. Microsoft really make good mice.

Watching many people slate Apples one button philosophy for years.
I have always thought they were simply thinking ahead. As forcing everyone to develop for one button mouse would mean that in the future (now) a single finger would suffice.
It would be cumbersome & hard to recognize a 'right click' gesture without forfeiting the two fingered scroll and enlarge.

You're either joking or the biggest Apple fanboy ever to grace this forum! I've always thought the one-button malarkey is ridiculous as you always end up using ctrl click & :apple:click as the extra buttons, albeit in a very very user-unfriendly way.

psychofreak
Jul 5, 2007, 09:43 AM
You're either joking or the biggest Apple fanboy ever to grace this forum! I've always thought the one-button malarkey is ridiculous as you always end up using ctrl click & :apple:click as the extra buttons, albeit in a very very user-unfriendly way.

One button with a two-finger right-click on a laptop is brillopads - on a PC laptop I cannot guarantee 100% of the time that I am going to hit the correct button without looking, now I just move my finger down :)

oscuh
Jul 5, 2007, 09:51 AM
I bet we might see a multi-touch pad that you could run with your left hand in conjunction with operating your mouse with your right (or vice versa for you southpaws). This would diminish the need for key commands allowing us to work even faster.

However, I think incorporating multi-touch into your mouse would have to be done very carefully, to keep it from thinking you want to zoom when you're trying to select an object, etc.

If anyone can do it, Apple can.

Kwill
Jul 5, 2007, 09:52 AM
Forget the mouse. Just plug the iPhone into your computer for the gestures and pinching. Or better yet, let it communicate wirelessly as an input device. :apple:

gifford
Jul 5, 2007, 09:55 AM
You're either joking or the biggest Apple fanboy ever to grace this forum! I've always thought the one-button malarkey is ridiculous as you always end up using ctrl click & :apple:click as the extra buttons, albeit in a very very user-unfriendly way.

Nope, not joking! Before getting an Apple I had an Atari ST which had two buttons, when i got my first Mac the lack of extra buttons did my head in at first, but after a while i grew to love it.
And thanks to their forward thinking Apple are left with more options open and an easier transition to the next era of computer interaction.
I'm a lazy person, the less key commands i have to know the better. IMO its the OS's job to graphically display the information in the most simplistic way so I dont have to look through manuals.

BenRoethig
Jul 5, 2007, 10:18 AM
This would be pretty expensive, but unlike the mighty mouse, it might actually work right.

QuarterSwede
Jul 5, 2007, 10:25 AM
Gee, I didn't see this coming :rolleyes: Just a natural extension of multi-touch ... good to see Apple applying it to their awful mouse.

MrCrowbar
Jul 5, 2007, 10:41 AM
just been rubbing my mouse in the fashion that i imagine we would have to.

Who else thinks the scroll ball on the mighty mouse feels like a clitoris when you have greasy fingers? :eek:

And I thought the Optimus Keyboard was cool. Now a multi-touch mouse makes sense, preferably with a multi-touch screen. Imagine the mighty mouse (minus the clitoris) having a screen on the whole surface. Should be possible with OLEDs. have two fingers rest on it like on a normal mouse, apply more pressure on the right finger for right click (the touching surface of the right finger will then be larger), pinch for zooming, scroll with 2 fingers like on the trackpads. Add some optional gestures for additional triggers like expose etc.

Attach it to a laptop and have it display a number pad on its surface. Have it display status information (i.e. a selection of dock items) when the screen is off, so you know when you have Mail for example. Or better even: make Growl display messages on the mouse when the screen is off. Ok, let's keep real, it's apple, so it will probably be limited in its uses so this paragraph is pure dream.

EDIT: Would multitouch wireless mouse replace the Apple remote? Having a touch keyboard to enter searches on AppleTV would be useful.

BKKbill
Jul 5, 2007, 10:43 AM
I'm also skeptical about a multi-touch mouse, but then at first I also thought tabs were dumb now always using them when surfing. Maybe if it could be designed just for the fingers resting your wrist on the arm of a chair.

MrCrowbar
Jul 5, 2007, 10:46 AM
One button with a two-finger right-click on a laptop is brillopads - on a PC laptop I cannot guarantee 100% of the time that I am going to hit the correct button without looking, now I just move my finger down :)

I love my Macbook.
Left click -> anywhere on the big button (or tap once, but it gets clumsy for drag and drop)
right click -> tap 2 fingers on the trackpad.

MrCrowbar
Jul 5, 2007, 10:47 AM
Each to their own, but I think the MM is junk. Microsoft really make good mice.

You're either joking or the biggest Apple fanboy ever to grace this forum! I've always thought the one-button malarkey is ridiculous as you always end up using ctrl click & :apple:click as the extra buttons, albeit in a very very user-unfriendly way.

Microsift makes excellent hardware.

MrCrowbar
Jul 5, 2007, 10:49 AM
I bet we might see a multi-touch pad that you could run with your left hand in conjunction with operating your mouse with your right (or vice versa for you southpaws). This would diminish the need for key commands allowing us to work even faster.

However, I think incorporating multi-touch into your mouse would have to be done very carefully, to keep it from thinking you want to zoom when you're trying to select an object, etc.

If anyone can do it, Apple can.

I want my Macbook's trackpad to do the pinch for zooming. Multitouch-Pad for laptops would be neat.

zioxide
Jul 5, 2007, 10:52 AM
uhh.. no thanks. That's just going to be awkward to use.

Additionally, Apple ****ing sucks at designing mice, so I doubt it will be any good.

lelereb
Jul 5, 2007, 10:52 AM
Apple invests millions in avoiding 2 button mouse :cool: :D :confused:.

ATG
Jul 5, 2007, 11:24 AM
So you could set up a stroking gesture to play a squeaking sound?

twoodcc
Jul 5, 2007, 11:36 AM
sounds cool. i don't think we'll see anything soon though

Digital Skunk
Jul 5, 2007, 11:39 AM
Cant wait to replace my faulty mighty mice. I have one for my desktop and another one for my MBP. I like the idea of not having a ball that gets dirty and filled with dust clogging up the wheel and not being able to scroll correctly. I also hope that Apple makes a better wireless mouse that can charge through a small USB plug in the front like the ones sold at RadTech.us. so that I don't have to keep feeding the thing batteries.

cliffjumper68
Jul 5, 2007, 11:40 AM
I want my Macbook's trackpad to do the pinch for zooming. Multitouch-Pad for laptops would be neat.

That would be much better for laptops, since most of us do not take our mice with us. A touch lcd display would also be sweet!

3CCD
Jul 5, 2007, 11:55 AM
Regardless if its necessary or not this is why I love Apple. Always improving or making a better product.

Lesser Evets
Jul 5, 2007, 12:08 PM
It better be pretty damn awesome. I still use and love my 1999 Microsoft Optical Trackball for the thumb. All the mice since have been second string.

Multimedia
Jul 5, 2007, 12:11 PM
While I agree that the multi-touch mouse might be hard to use at first, it is probably a much better/easier alternative to having a multi-touch screen, as that might require a redesign of the ergonomic layout of apple's desktopsI don't think this will ever catch on due to the following comment:I'm willing to bet this is one of those patents that goes nowhere.

I can't see how this would work well.. most people rest their hands on the mouse, they'd have to lift them off to perform a pinch/flick, then back resting on the mouse again. Plus, unlike an iPhone screen, the potential for accidental gestures is fairly high.I agree wholeheartedly. Too many odds against this ever working because we all move our fingers over the mouse and buttons all the time without intending any action on the screen.

MrCrowbar
Jul 5, 2007, 12:11 PM
So you could set up a stroking gesture to play a squeaking sound?

:-) That would be a nice virus indeed.

MegaMan1311
Jul 5, 2007, 12:15 PM
:-) That would be a nice virus indeed.They should make it a feature. :D It gives the computer mouse a whole new meaning.

EagerDragon
Jul 5, 2007, 12:46 PM
Now this would make a lot of sense to me. Instead of getting the screen filty with grease. You do not have to wait for a new computer of buy a new multitouch screen, keep the old add a multitouch mouse instead.

Now we are cooking with gas.

EagerDragon
Jul 5, 2007, 12:52 PM
This pic looks like a mini-mini-mini-version of the Microsoft Surface Computer ;)

Yes you can have a nice tea party on your multi touch mouse if you use tiny cups and saucers.

Ad Pro
Jul 5, 2007, 12:56 PM
I can see there becoming more finger gestures on the touch pad and possibly the scroll ball will be replaced with a touch sensitive strip. I cannot see the mouse becoming so complicated though, it sounds cool but realistically its impractical.

There is no need for so many types of input on the mouse, its best keept simple until software reaches the stage that a more complex device is needed. Multitouch is great - works amazingly in the iPhone, and may be used for a new scroll ball replacement but these other creations you are dreaming of - probably not.

localoid
Jul 5, 2007, 01:05 PM
It would be so-oo easy to perform left and right clicks and even pinching gestures if only Apple would invent the multi-touch chair. And as a bonus, it would help users to improve the firmness of their buttock muscles.

Fiveos22
Jul 5, 2007, 01:06 PM
with this multitouch, all we need is 1 button.

Ha! Spot on.


Is Apple being innovative? I guess so...
Is this mouse going to be confusing? yessir.

http://blog.dreamhost.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/schoolforthegifted.jpg

gkarris
Jul 5, 2007, 01:18 PM
iPod Mouse

We all have ipods? They can make an iPod that when hooked up USB, doubles as a mouse!!! :p

inkswamp
Jul 5, 2007, 02:47 PM
I can't see how this would work well.. most people rest their hands on the mouse, they'd have to lift them off to perform a pinch/flick, then back resting on the mouse again. Plus, unlike an iPhone screen, the potential for accidental gestures is fairly high.

This is why Apple dumps so much into R&D--to motivate great minds and to give them the tools to explore solutions for these very problems. However, it doesn't take a lot of imagination to figure out how they would address it. Accidental gestures, for example, could be avoided with the use of a proximity sensor that watches for your hand--just like the one in the iPhone that watches for your head to be next to the phone. Likewise, I'm sure it's not too much of a leap to have the software watch for small, round, fingertip-like touches and ignore the blob-like touches from your hand. Also, a slight reshaping of the mouse to have a flatter, more defined touch area on top of the mouse could more easily accommodate that too.

I find this concept very exciting. And it would get multi-touch on the desktop faster than waiting for a complete hardware overhaul. I keep thinking multi-touch won't be on my desktop for many years, but this could be done fairly quickly. And if any company can do it right, it will be Apple.

You know what's kind of exciting about this approach? If it turns out that it really can't be done easily in a mouse, it can be spun off into another standard peripheral. Say, a small touchpad about the size of an iPod that plugs into the other USB port on your keyboard and sits off to the left of your keyboard. You move the mouse to the right spot, use your left hand to do multi-touch gestures, and then resume mousing. There are a lot of possibilities for this approach.

oscuh
Jul 5, 2007, 02:51 PM
I want my Macbook's trackpad to do the pinch for zooming. Multitouch-Pad for laptops would be neat.

Absolutely ... I was speaking more in terms of a desktop, since I sit in front of one all day.

Could easily see MBPs turned into some sort of Qausi-NintendoDS arrangement with a regular top screen and a multi-touch screen at the bottom.

AppleIntelRock
Jul 5, 2007, 02:58 PM
if this mouse doesn't have two proper button, I'm not interested. it'll make good bait for my trap though. :D

Maccus Aurelius
Jul 5, 2007, 03:19 PM
Apple is in a situation here because they are trying to go around the touchscreen technology.

I have a custom 30" apple cinema screen with touch screen. It cost me almost $5.000 and it stoped working 3 months later.

The actual problem apple is facing is that not all the application works with touchscreen because their icons are so small. For example, to choose one of the Smilies of this web site would be a pain or all the options we have in the menues to create links and so. That is why touchscreen for apple wouldn't work for everyone.

Having a mouse with the capabilities... you have all your fingers over that surface all the time doing stuff by themselves, it will drive me crazy, with a touchscreen you just go and press on top of what you want.

Is going to be a complicated case and Apple have been working around that for years since the rumors of the tablet.

Good luck

Why would anyone expect OS X to work flawlessly on touch screens? Besides the iPhone, OS X is not made for any Mac with touch screen capable hardware.

I don't think you can judge Apple's capabilities regarding touch-sensitive devices based on custom hardware that failed you.

I've read the rumors, but we'll never know if Apple cares to go that route yet. The iPhone, however, proves that Apple is indeed good at touch-screen technology. Apple was rumored to have a tablet in the works. Until I get a memo from Apple via Keynote, that's all pretty much fantasy. Has anyone tried the Modbook? How does it stand up?

Macnoviz
Jul 5, 2007, 03:50 PM
Actually, now that I think about it, multitouch (and single touch, for that matter) only seem to be intuitive and natural, and wow-like, is when they are incorporated in the sceen you use to view what you are doing.
The greatest improvements in computing are made by how we interact with the devices, not the devices themselves. In that perspective, I don't see a multitouch mouse as a big improvement, it's still the paradigm of using your fingers and hands to manipulate something on a seperate monitor. Using the monitor itself as an input device (ala milan or iPhone) is the real revolution.
Of course, a multitouch mouse might be an improvement on the current mouse, but not as revolutionary as the iPhone or MS surface (yes, for once, MS has been innovative, but don't get used to it)

valiar
Jul 5, 2007, 04:16 PM
Hm...
So how do you do a middle-click with that?
Of course, they can invent all kinds of fancy three-finger gestures, but no matter what this mouse will suck badly.
Most programs that I use, even Apple ones, support at least 2 buttons - and are easier to use if you have two buttons. Safari uses 3 buttons.
When I am in a coffee shop with my MBP, it pisses me off immensely that there is only one button on the trackpad. Yes, I can do a two-finger tap, but why not put three fricking physical buttons on there? And tell me again, how do I do a middle click with the trackpad?
Apple does a lot of things right. Why have not they got the pointing devices right yet? After all they were the first to make real use of the mouse...

thebrain74
Jul 5, 2007, 06:00 PM
And now I, Steve Jobs, would like to introduce the MEGA MIGHTY Mouse.



and also the $99 Mega mighty mouse leather carrying sleeve

Quillz
Jul 5, 2007, 09:05 PM
[ snip ]
I think this is a very good idea, especially if multi-touch is extended to the current Mighty Mouse. Imagine a Mighty Mouse completely solid, just one big piece that is entirely touch-sensitive. No gaps to get clogged with dust and dirt, and no scroll ball notorious for breaking down due to the littlest amounts of debris. I'd be first in line for a truly touch-sensitive, multi-touch mouse. It works great on the MacBook trackpad, I can imagine it being equally as great on a mouse.

MagnusVonMagnum
Jul 5, 2007, 11:37 PM
I use an ergonomic type gel pad for a mouse pad where the gel part supports the wrist and there's a regular pad for the mouse in front of that. I use an optical 5-button mouse on it with the side buttons turned off (use scroll button all the time, though in Firefox to open new links in new tabs and in some games like Jedi Academy). But looking at it with the mouse sitting on it and thinking of this multi-touch mouse, it seems to me the BEST thing to do with the setup I have here is eliminate the mouse on the gel pad and make the mouse pad part a 6x6 multitouch surface instead. In other words, it would be a giant track pad with multitouch. Why would I even need the mouse at that point? I could just use my fingers to track the pointer and do the motions. Trying to do that on the surface/back of a mouse seems like it would be incredibly awkward.

So why not just have multi-touch track pads with wrist rests and eliminate the mouse altogether? Or set it aside for use with various games or certain applications where you'd want to use a traditional mouse and in that case, it'd function on top of the track pad as any other modern optical mouse would function on a mouse pad.

I suppose I could envision my mouse with a clear top and scanning beams and in some situations just lift up my index and middle finger and do certain motions ABOVE the surface of the mouse in addition to regular mouse actions (say to zoom in). If done with a bit of restraint, it could be beneficial to have added motions, but I can't imagine using all the iPhone gestures with it nor would you need to if you have a mouse there as well.

MikeTheC
Jul 6, 2007, 02:01 AM
Two thoughts on this:

1. Conceptual/Theoretical:

It is a very good thing to have continued attempts at innovation in a given product, because you never know when a better product might spring from an "out of left field" notion. Additionally, considering the various ergonomic lessons that have been learned since the mouse was invented in the 1960s, who knows what musculo-skeletal benefits this device might have.


2. Experential/Pragmatic:

Leave the damn mouse alone already! You folks (that is, Apple) haven't been able to innovate your way out of a paper bag when it comes to mice. The last good mouse you folks made was the original Pro Mouse, and the last good one before that was the original ADB mouse with a black ball that basically didn't require cleaning. Your so-called "Mighty" mouse was a piece of junk, with both a very poor tracking capability and terrible service history, and your wireless version is no better.


Final evaluation:

Apple should license an OEM laser mouse from Logitech, and have Mr. St. Ive design the casing / buttons / wheel for it.

CalBoy
Jul 6, 2007, 02:55 AM
Leave the damn mouse alone already! You folks (that is, Apple) haven't been able to innovate your way out of a paper bag when it comes to mice. The last good mouse you folks made was the original Pro Mouse, and the last good one before that was the original ADB mouse with a black ball that basically didn't require cleaning. Your so-called "Mighty" mouse was a piece of junk, with both a very poor tracking capability and terrible service history, and your wireless version is no better.

I agree that the Mighty Mouse was terrible, but that doesn't mean that Apple shouldn't keep trying. Even if Apple doesn't end up selling their own mouse, they could lease the technology to others for about 20 years and force more advancement in the industry of computer tactile interface.


Final evaluation:

Apple should license an OEM laser mouse from Logitech, and have Mr. St. Ive design the casing / buttons / wheel for it.

This might be the best thing. Apple does do one thing better than any other technology company, and that's design.

rwdebes
Jul 6, 2007, 04:27 AM
definately gonna come with the new iMac and iLife 08 :p :p

i wish that was true..


when u guys think this can happen ??

:apple:

I agree that the Mighty Mouse was terrible, but that doesn't mean that Apple shouldn't keep trying. Even if Apple doesn't end up selling their own mouse, they could lease the technology to others for about 20 years and force more advancement in the industry of computer tactile interface.



This might be the best thing. Apple does do one thing better than any other technology company, and that's design.

and software and harware. design is nothing without what apple puts inside the plastics cases.

apple need a REAL mouse .. they created this thing !
they should have at least 2 different models for sell other than mighty mouse..
a laser mouse would be cool.. different designs for different tastes and NEEDS!
they could fight against WACOW, launching new mouse and tablets.. uhuhhuhu

;) :apple:

MrCrowbar
Jul 6, 2007, 07:44 AM
So why not just have multi-touch track pads with wrist rests and eliminate the mouse altogether? Or set it aside for use with various games or certain applications where you'd want to use a traditional mouse and in that case, it'd function on top of the track pad as any other modern optical mouse would function on a mouse pad.


I totally agree. The trackpads on current Macbooks (and the Pros) are the best I've ever used. Nice and big, no searching for the right button (there's only one) and 2 finger 2D scrolling (instead of lame scroll areas).

A big Trackpad has some disadvantages though.
- It can only be as precise as you are with your fingers. So with a big screen you need a big trackpad to be able to have precision close to a mouse or have to swipe it a lot to go from one corner of the screen to another.
- You will rest your palm on it. ANd your fingers. Try it out on your desk: do you want to lift all your fingers except one for pointing actions? That will give you tendonitis in no time.

Big touch screens are ergonomically bad I think. Great for handheld devices, where you only move your fingers. I fear the mouse will stick around for a while. :-(


Final evaluation:

Apple should license an OEM laser mouse from Logitech, and have Mr. St. Ive design the casing / buttons / wheel for it.

Yep. Don't forget Apple people should make the driver for it. I returned my MX revolution because the Mac driver was absolutely horrible. And the thumb rest is in my way. Would have gotten the laptop version but the driver is the same. USB Overdrive didn't recognize the mouse and generally makes every mouse a 100 dpi mouse... Oh yea, having 1 mouse, one docking station for the mouse, one gib ass power brick for the docking station and a USB receiver is too annoying in my opinion.

I want a Bluetooth mouse with lots of configurable buttons, a pull out USB cord (like in vacuum cleaners) for charging and using it when your battery is dead or you don't have bluetooth. And why nit have an SD card reader on the bottom?

I'd like a Microsoft mouse, they're solid and have good Mac drivers. But the recent ones are ugly and all wireless. Right now, I'm using a Logitech G5. I love the weight and the teflon pads and the lots of buttons.

snickelfritz
Jul 6, 2007, 12:06 PM
Apple should integrate multitouch into an electronic mousepad.
This way, any conventional mouse could be used without having to forego the purported benefits of multitouch.

FX120
Jul 6, 2007, 12:42 PM
Am I the only one that kind of feels that multi-touch is mostly hype at this moment?

Seriously, in the iPhone it almost seems like Apple had to go out of their way just to make gestures that would actually take advantage of the technology, that ultimatley just end up being confusing and would be better resolved with a button.

Everyone goes on about how great multi-touch is, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that how little I would use it, even on a big screen. Sure, there are some cool gimicky applications like sorting through photos, but for the most part I see very little use of the capability in my day to day tasks.

Now obviously I'm not suggesting that this technology shouldn't some day make its way into our homes, but at this point I see the term "multi-touch" as little more than a gimick... And that applies to not only Apple, but Microsoft too.

MagnusVonMagnum
Jul 6, 2007, 01:37 PM
A big Trackpad has some disadvantages though.
- It can only be as precise as you are with your fingers. So with a big screen you need a big trackpad to be able to have precision close to a mouse or have to swipe it a lot to go from one corner of the screen to another.


My ergonomic mouse pad here is around 6 inches by 6 inches. I think that would probably suffice.


- You will rest your palm on it. ANd your fingers. Try it out on your desk: do you want to lift all your fingers except one for pointing actions? That will give you tendonitis in no time.


I already described my ergo pad (by Fellowes). It has a BIG THICK gell wrist rest on it with the mouse pad sitting in front of that inside one giant plastic shell. My wrist ALWAYS rests on the gel pad for comfort. It also puts my hand above the surface of the pad (i.e. at mouse level), so it there was no mouse, you could easily touch any point on the pad with your fingers with little difficulty or discomfort. Plus as I said, I wouldn't replace the mouse so much as supplement it (i.e. set mouse aside and pick it up for the apps where you need it; the pad could then just act as a regular mouse pad. In fact, I already have a LARGE drawing tablet with 1024 levels of touch/drawing pressure levels that can also support the use of a mouse across its surface as a supplement. In other words, use whatever tool does the job best for what you're doing.

Alternatively, have a mouse with sensors above the buttons that can track certain movements ABOVE the surface of the mouse (say move your index and middle finger together or apart to magnify, as one example) but when resting on the buttons, it acts as a regular mouse (thus it would be a regular mouse with expanded functionality, not a replacement for something that already works well).

I also prefer 2 button mice with track-button as the third button and scroll wheel to something like Mighty Mouse. It's perfectly comfortable and makes sense. I think Apple has been pushing the 1 (obvious) button concept for too long. They should just admit it's not with the times or the choice of the masses and start offering 3 to 5 button mice like all the best already do (even M$'s 5-button optical mouse is first rate, IMO; it's what I use despite my distaste for M$).


Big touch screens are ergonomically bad I think. Great for handheld devices, where you only move your fingers. I fear the mouse will stick around for a while. :-(

I'd want a touch screen for things like flight simulators (to activate extra controls instead of the keyboard which are hard to memorize loads of obscure functions), not as a replacement for traditional controls on a desktop system.

I think what I'm saying is that not all innovations have to be REPLACEMENTS for existing technology. Maybe it's better if something like a touchscreen on a desktop SUPPLEMENTS instead of replaces. Surely, there are many times when such a thing would come in handy (replacing obscure keyboard combos and such with easy button pushes on screen for example).

aria505
Jul 6, 2007, 02:21 PM
What do you all think about the mouse as an input device?

Do you think there is a better way to interact with the computer? Does the mouse really need to be improved? Can the way we interact with a computer really be improved without effecting our productivity and the use of our body's energy?

It is interesting that we haven't advanced past the mouse and keyboard yet. Maybe because it really is just the best input combo. It is just odd that the best combo for interacting with a computer would have been discovered so early on.

A multi-touch screen seems like it would be faster to use than the mouse in small bursts like for some people at home who don't use the computer a lot or for people who use the computer inbetween doing other things. But for people who work on a computer all day, it just would get too tiering possibly.

I'll agree that Apple isn't very good at making a mouse. Mainly because they want to make a mouse that looks simple but is used by something very complicated (the hand). I'm not sure that those two concepts go together.

verniesgarden
Jul 6, 2007, 03:11 PM
apple... rube goldberging the mouse (again)

whats wrong with just buttons, the mouse doesnt have to be complicated, i love the mighty mouse, but the same thing could been done easier and cheaper


sometimes a mouse, should just be a mouse

Macnoviz
Jul 6, 2007, 03:49 PM
Am I the only one that kind of feels that multi-touch is mostly hype at this moment?

Seriously, in the iPhone it almost seems like Apple had to go out of their way just to make gestures that would actually take advantage of the technology, that ultimatley just end up being confusing and would be better resolved with a button.

Everyone goes on about how great multi-touch is, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that how little I would use it, even on a big screen. Sure, there are some cool gimicky applications like sorting through photos, but for the most part I see very little use of the capability in my day to day tasks.

Now obviously I'm not suggesting that this technology shouldn't some day make its way into our homes, but at this point I see the term "multi-touch" as little more than a gimick... And that applies to not only Apple, but Microsoft too.

That is possible, although another possibility is that this is as big as the command line to GUI shift.

pdpfilms
Jul 7, 2007, 09:35 AM
This is no good. Apple should be continuing with multitouch interaction with displays (as in iPhone) rather than attempting to strap it to an old technology.

The keyboard and mouse is NOT the end-all UI. I can't see why multitouch displays would be any less intuitive than a mouse and keyboard. I love the Surface concept, and would love so much to be able to interact directly with OSX without a clunky piece of external hardware.

I sure as heck hope we don't ever see this product... because if we do, it'll mean actual full-fledged multitouch displays are years off.

trule
Jul 8, 2007, 02:34 AM
Reminds me of a track ball more than a mouse. I always liked trackballs, effortless and accurate, but they never really took off.

! V !
Jul 8, 2007, 10:30 PM
Not certain if someone has mentioned this, however:

This mouse is basically a track-pad on the surface of the mouse. This will render the new track-pad mouse to be easily cleaned and allowing a jester option for the end-user. Instead of making a tablet for input purposes all Apple is doing here is making the form of a mouse with the surface for scrolling and moving the cursor.

Interesting, considering having a touch sensitive surface would use up more battery power (if cordless). Imagine a white teardrop for an input device.

CalBoy
Jul 9, 2007, 01:31 AM
Reminds me of a track ball more than a mouse. I always liked trackballs, effortless and accurate, but they never really took off.

I always had a hard time with those. They are more accurate, but I always had a hard time controlling them. I guess the regular old mouse is good enough for me:)

justflie
Jul 9, 2007, 08:35 AM
trust me, this isn't going to happen. can't say how i know of course. ;)

whooleytoo
Jul 9, 2007, 08:43 AM
trust me, this isn't going to happen. can't say how i know of course. ;)

You have an iCrystal Ball? With Multi-Touch(tm)?

zombitronic
May 30, 2008, 01:35 AM
It's been almost a year since this topic has been discussed and another WWDC is right around the corner. With all the 'new product' whispers and multi-touch buzz circulating during these past few months and weeks, the timing feels right for a product like this.

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/07/05/mmouse_300.png


Obviously, not all users are interested in a laptop or a tablet so multi-touch will still need to be brought to the desktop. iMac and Mac Pro users will want to pinch and flick and this would be the device to bring the magic to their fingertips.

My fingers are itching for Mighty Mouse Touch at this year's WWDC.

louden
Jun 5, 2008, 08:12 AM
if this mouse doesn't have two proper button, I'm not interested. it'll make good bait for my trap though. :D

Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you right-click on an Apple mouse just be pressing on the right side of the mouse? I thought they figured out a way to not even need the other button.

Macnoviz
Jun 5, 2008, 09:16 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you right-click on an Apple mouse just be pressing on the right side of the mouse? I thought they figured out a way to not even need the other button.

The problem with the mighty mouse is that you need to lift your left finger before pressing the right side, and all in all, I prefer two buttons over 1 button (with sensors to tell which side it's being pressed on) any day

psychofreak
Jun 5, 2008, 09:18 AM
The problem with the mighty mouse is that you need to lift your left finger before pressing the right side, and all in all, I prefer two buttons over 1 button (with sensors to tell which side it's being pressed on) any day

Fortunately, I somehow always did that, I never had a finger lifting problem :)

I think its those years of practice with Minesweeper.

Samaritan
Jun 5, 2008, 11:09 AM
Upon reading that title, I was hoping Apple was releasing a more redneck-friendly version of their mouse -- possibly something in camo instead of white, with a beer holder.

Business in the front, party in the back.

Actually you were right to think this - everyone else is wrong.

Its actually a new concept in "signature" mice - the first one being the Michael Bolton signature mouse, with the strap-line:

The Michael Bolton mouse - Sittin' on the iDock of the bay....

Can't wait.

dagamer34
Nov 15, 2009, 04:59 PM
Sorry for the bump, but it seems things sit in the incubator for quite a LONG time before being released. And I just happened to stumble on this thread when searching for "OS X 10.7" with Google (yes, I know, quite cheesy).

zonesey
Nov 15, 2009, 06:28 PM
just gotta have to :p at the "Mulittouch" aaaahh :D keep it up...

thegoldenmackid
Nov 15, 2009, 06:30 PM
Sorry for the bump, but it seems things sit in the incubator for quite a LONG time before being released. And I just happened to stumble on this thread when searching for "OS X 10.7" with Google (yes, I know, quite cheesy).

Umm... or perhaps kings are trying to be worked out.

DoFoT9
Nov 15, 2009, 07:18 PM
whoever found out this info needs a gold star.

Gray-Wolf
Nov 17, 2009, 09:21 AM
Now if Apple would just ship them to resellers. :(

kroeks
Nov 17, 2009, 09:23 AM
can't wait to lay my multi-touch hand on that mouse <3

Alan64
Nov 17, 2009, 09:32 AM
trust me, this isn't going to happen. can't say how i know of course. ;)

:p