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Shobai
Jul 18, 2003, 11:15 AM
Now I know a million people probably did this, but I'm doing it anyway for myself..because I can't find those other threads, so I apologize:D

I'm a Mac "wannabe", I'm a huge fan, know about all the products, but to this date, have not owned any of the mac products (I got a few nifty mac information pamphlets tho:D ). This should all change in the incoming weeks as I, SHOBAI, PLAN TO PURCHASE A POWERBOOK! BWAHAHAH!

So, I'm going into New York University as a communications major ,my first year, and plan to do some graphic work and the other student basics (typing, internet, presenations). I got it locked down between the 12" al powerbook or the 15" ti powerbook...but i'm slamming my head against a can of spam trying to figure out which one to get. I need it to be portable, moderately powerful, and able to serve me faithfully for a few if not all 4 years of college. Can you guys (and I love you guys, you're all so damned nice on these forums:D) give me a pro's and con's comparison list...and possibly your reccomendation on what should be my FIRST MAC PURCHASE EVEEEEEEEEEEER!!?

Thanks!!:D

irmongoose
Jul 18, 2003, 11:32 AM
Pros/Cons

12" Pros
- Very portable, excellent for students.
- Has all the goodies the 15" doesn't have , such as the Aluminum finish, Bluetooth inside, better Airport reception...

12" Cons
- Small screen may not be enough for graphics work.
- Not as fast as the 15" (867MHz compared to 1 GHz).

Conclusion: Would you like the extra goodies, or the one that fits your needs better? Or, form another point of view, would you like to be complaining when Apple releases (maybe) a new 15" at the Paris Expo? You decide!




irmongoose

Shobai
Jul 18, 2003, 11:37 AM
Yeah, give me all the goods! Give me whatever you guys think! PLEASE!

The Paris Expo, eh? When is that, and is there a link so I could get some info?

THANKS A BUNCH!

irmongoose
Jul 18, 2003, 11:40 AM
The Paris Apple Expo is on September 16th. More info (http://www.apple-expo.com/).



irmongoose

Shobai
Jul 18, 2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by irmongoose


Conclusion: Would you like the extra goodies, or the one that fits your needs better? Or, form another point of view, would you like to be complaining when Apple releases (maybe) a new 15" at the Paris Expo? You decide!




irmongoose

Sorry, I didn't read this right!:D I don't know, what I want in it...I guess a question that if answered would help me better...is, How portable is the 15"? Doesn't anyone have some stories or somekind of review on the portability of the 15' in real world use?

sorry to irmongoose again for screwing up my reply....

Abstract
Jul 18, 2003, 12:53 PM
Topic: Powerbook Dilenma

Pfffft!!! Join the club. ;)

No pros and cons list from me. I'll just say that from the way it sounds, you don't really need APExtreme or anything of the sort. Dude, if you're working on graphics, I'd get the 15". It has the larger screen. Its faster. Nuff said. :cool:

Shobai
Jul 18, 2003, 01:03 PM
sweeeeeet

I'm leaning towards the 15 incher now...that widescreen is calling.

What I think happened..and got me into the 12 inch is the portability...but...moreso..the design! That aluminum finish with all the ports on the side....i like it so much I try to make excuses to cover for the 12 incher's lack of speed and display size...

MacBoyX
Jul 18, 2003, 01:38 PM
My 0.02 cents...

I owned a TiBook. At first it was a desktop replacement...but it grew to be a true portable and my feelings (as I am sure everyone on here knows) are...

1. The TiBook is big, and it's Painted, so if you are dragging it to class daily...get the 12". It'll fit better on your lap etc. Also the more you move it the more chance you're gonna have to scratch the paint and that sucks. It happened to me and I don't know where or how :(

2. The screen flexes...so if you're gonna carry it in ur bag...it's gonna get the infamous etching on the screen from the keys. Get a screen protector if you get a 15". I recommend the one at Acmemade.com. It protects the inside and outside.

3. The AirPort reception sucks so if you're gonna be on a wireless network (lots of colleges use em now) you might want the 12" because they moved the antenae to the monitor which helps.

Just make sure you consider these things before you buy. Ordinarily I'd recommend to you as a student to seriously look at the iBook cause it's WAY more durable and a hell of a lot cheaper but I don't know how much graphic work you're gonna do, if you are editing the odd picture with Photoshop or Graphic converter then think about the iBook if you are going to be doing MAJOR Photoshop work, then the Altivec of the G4 will be better.

Being a student you may appreciate the durability of the G3 iBook if it meets ur needs, not to mention you could max out it's ram and prolly get an iPod which in NY is just the most useful gadget in the world, Music, Address Book and a Calendar? Hell Yeah!

Also, because an iBook would prolly hit all of ur needs...I don't think you need to worry abt the speed difference of the 12" AlBook

Probably the 12" PB is gonna be the best of both portable semi durable and powerful, and you can always get an external LCD (NOT APPLE CINEMA DISPAY) to hook up to it and span ur desktop when you are at ur desk.

Also if you're going to NYU find out what kind of educational discount you can get. Some schools are really giving killer deals on Powerbooks (esp 15").

I hope that gave u some more food for thought... Also if you are in NY or in a state that has one...go to the Apple store and play with both of them before you decide.

As far as the screen thing goes...the only thing i can say is I sold my PowerBook 15" to a close friend and got an iBook 12". The only time i miss the 15" screen is when he comes to visit and they are side by side...

MacBoyX

Shobai
Jul 18, 2003, 01:54 PM
HOLY POO!! MacBoyx that helped out a lot...THANKS!

I've been to the Apple store in NYC (SoHo), and since i'm in arlington, VA for a summer job...i went to the arlington store yesterday to play with them both (the damned apple store employees make me feel like i'm steeling something all the time...oh yeah...maybe it's because i'm drooling all over the products..:D ) I was more drawn to the 12", and the screen didn't really bother me, but like I am, I always have to be sure before I decide...as this laptop will be my "mainstay" computer for like 2 or 3 years.

So, i got the screen size dilema covered....that also covers my doubts with portability (sounds like the 15 inch is a b*tch to carry around...that may be an overstatement tho)...and i got the "power" aspect covered (i'm kinda staying away from the G3 proc...i don't think it will hold up much longer)..which leads into my final indecision...i guess...What's the longevity of the 12"...or possibly the 15" PB's? In 1-2 years am I going to be crying like a baby cause my PB can't even handle e-mail?!

Thanks guys

MacBoyX
Jul 18, 2003, 02:02 PM
well here's 0.03 more cents that brings me up to a nickle on this topic.

First of all...the G3 processor will hold up and I predict longer than the G4. Don't just get caught up in Speed, there are critical reasons the G4 is stuck at the speeds it is. And Motorola isnt behind the chips anymore.

however, IBM is still developing the G3 and will be putting AltiVec into it and has gotten the Front Side Bus to 200 Mhz(the G4's is only 167 right now in the powerbook) and the Chip Speed to 1.2 Ghz so far and it doesn't look like that's gonna stop. What's it all mean? To me next year there could be a G3 more powerful than the current G4s.

The G4 wont be going above 1.42GHz so... don't count out the G3.

The only reason I said you might want a G4 is if you NEED AltiVec. If you don't I prefer the G3 cause it's more stable, and runs cooler.

Also I don't think you need to worry abt your PowerBook purchase not lasting four years. Learn this with Macs...as long as the machine still does what you want, there's nothing wrong with it. Even if there is a G6 at 100 GHz if your PB still gets ur email and does what u need, it's just fine.

And plain and simple ANY Mac purchase is going to last longer than a PC so u're already one step ahead.

Again make sure you check with school for discounts it can save u at least 100 bucks and they have some sort of iPod discount going!

Good luck.

Macboyx

Shobai
Jul 18, 2003, 02:10 PM
Hey MacBoyX, I feel kinda stupid asking, but could you explain AltiVec to me?

And does it matter with a laptop? I mean, you can't switch out proc's in laptops anyway (i don't think you can with a Powbook), so I should just go for the best (G4) out right now anyway right?....haha..or am I missguided once again?

Yeah, NYU's got some great specials, like the "Buy a Bundle"...buy a portable and an ipod...get 200$ rebate (a printer with a 100$ rebate too!)...so I'll def, take advantage of that (I've wanted an ipod since i was in the womb...haha)

And my uncertainty with longevity of macs/powerbooks....you solved that one too! awesome...!

beefcake
Jul 18, 2003, 02:10 PM
I too suffer from the Powerbook dilema. I'll be at Johns Hopkins next year in Mech Engineering and have never owned a Mac. Although the 12" has more goodies and is more portable, it's the 867 G4 and lack of L3 cache that keeps me away from it. I would absolutely love for the 15" to get a facelife and get a decent aluminum case and airport extreme.

solvs
Jul 18, 2003, 02:24 PM
New 'Books probably won't be out until late Sept.

People still run 200MHz PCs to check e-mail, and my old Performa 6400 still runs perfectly (albeit, very slowly). 867 MHz will be fine for awhile in a Laptop. The next speed bump will probably only be about a 1 GHz G4. Just max out the RAM (third party) and buy AppleCare. You'll be happy.

And if your going to college, you can get an educational discount, and a rebate on HP printers and iPods (in case you didn't already know).

edit: apparently you do...

MacBoyX
Jul 18, 2003, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by Shobai
Hey MacBoyX, I feel kinda stupid asking, but could you explain AltiVec to me?

And does it matter with a laptop? I mean, you can't switch out proc's in laptops anyway (i don't think you can with a Powbook), so I should just go for the best (G4) out right now anyway right?....haha..or am I missguided once again?

Yeah, NYU's got some great specials, like the "Buy a Bundle"...buy a portable and an ipod...get 200$ rebate (a printer with a 100$ rebate too!)...so I'll def, take advantage of that (I've wanted an ipod since i was in the womb...haha)

And my uncertainty with longevity of macs/powerbooks....you solved that one too! awesome...!

Not a problem...never feel stupid in asking about something you don't understand :)

Not to get too techincal but AltiVec allows AltiVec enabled applications (Photoshop for one) to do thing quicker than a non AltiVec enabled processor.

Photoshop is infamous for this because alot of it's filters and rendering are AlitVec enabled meaning that it runs faster on a G4 with AlitVec then with a G3 with no AltiVec.

If a chip has no AltiVec the software just keeps chugging along without it.

I am sure someone will come and give a techincal answer but I just wanted to make it very simple because I am sure u dont care how it works just what it does.

I was just trying to point out that your thoughts about the G3 not holding up much longer might not be totally true because of some other factors...it won't matter to you cause you can't at this point upgrade either an iBook or PowerBook G4.

I am glad I am able to help you. The way other Mac users help each other out and love to give support is one of the things I like best about having switched.

If you want to talk about it more or have other questions you wanna ask or you dont wanna post here..send me an email. If you use AIM or another IM Program stick ur name in the email and i'll IM you when I get home :) I am heading there now.

MacBoyX

beefcake
Jul 18, 2003, 02:35 PM
I guess my next question is how well Powerbooks run with PC's. My plan has been to get a Powerbook now, use it for 2-3 years exclusively, then when I move off campus build a sub-$1000 desktop (not to bash Mac or start an argument, but it is my opinion that you can get more for your dollar with a home built desktop PC). There's no way I'd buy a PC notebook, but down the road will I have any trouble with a PC desktop and a PB getting along (file sharing, etc.)?

Abstract
Jul 18, 2003, 02:35 PM
MacBoyX's advice on possibly getting an iBook is good. Personally, I would go for the 12", but I recommended the 15" if graphics work is something you'll be doing regularly. Plus it's faster than the 12". The iBook is......well.....better for a student. When I buy a laptop for school, it'll be the iBook for sure. Its simply more sturdy. But again, you're into graphics work, so.....

daveL
Jul 18, 2003, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by Shobai
Sorry, I didn't read this right!:D I don't know, what I want in it...I guess a question that if answered would help me better...is, How portable is the 15"? Doesn't anyone have some stories or somekind of review on the portability of the 15' in real world use?

sorry to irmongoose again for screwing up my reply....

I can't comment on the 12", but you might want to read this thread:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=32523

Among others, I comment on my experience with my TiBook. For real world use, get a good carrying bag, like those available from Brenthaven, that's made specifically for the TiBook. They have a brief case style and a backpack style. I have the brief case style, which has a much smaller padded case, within the outer case, that you slide the PB into from the top. It's very easy to load and unload AND the internal padded case is removeable.

HTH

daveL
Jul 18, 2003, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by beefcake
I guess my next question is how well Powerbooks run with PC's. My plan has been to get a Powerbook now, use it for 2-3 years exclusively, then when I move off campus build a sub-$1000 desktop (not to bash Mac or start an argument, but it is my opinion that you can get more for your dollar with a home built desktop PC). There's no way I'd buy a PC notebook, but down the road will I have any trouble with a PC desktop and a PB getting along (file sharing, etc.)?
Sorry for the multiple posts; this one came in while I was posting.

Anyway, OS X has Samba built in, so file sharing with a PC is simple. I do it all the time. Panther will be even better in this regard, since it will update to the latest Samba rev and add easy PC printer sharing.

HTH

mactastic
Jul 18, 2003, 03:21 PM
One issue for students to consider if they plan on taking notes on their laptop, is that if you have several classes in a row, your battery most likely won't last that long. Unless you can guarantee a seat near a plug, or time between classes to recharge, you risk running out of power at an innopportune moment. A palm pilot with a keyboard, on the other hand, will last all day typing and come back for more. I used my 15" pb all last year at school and it was fantastic. I had many classes where I was in the position to offer to "save" someone when their PC laptops would not show their presentations, including the instructors of a couple classes. The 15" PB, IMHO, is the sweet spot for the laptops, the perfect compromise between the power and features of the 17", and the portability of the 12".

tazo
Jul 18, 2003, 03:33 PM
Get the 12'' you will love the extra portability and you can always plug it into a standard VGA monitor to have more screen realestate. If you are in school you are already probably carrying around a ton of books. The 12'' powerbook weighs over a 1 lb. less then the 15'' powerbook.

The 12'' really is the better choice for a student because its fast, uber-portable, has a durable exterior that won't potentially chip like the 15'', and it also contains newer tech. like 802.11g wireless and Bluetooth.

Bottom line, 12" powerbook is powerful enough for what you need to do, in a package that you will love carrying around-since it weighs significantly less then some of those books you might have ;)

hope that helps.

-tazo

NNO-Stephen
Jul 18, 2003, 03:56 PM
depends on how much power you need.

15" is quite a bit more powerful than the 12" simply because it has 1MB of L3 Cache, while the 12" has none. the 15" even has a 1Ghz model which puts it ahead of the 12" in power that much more. HOWEVER... the 12" has built-in bluetooth, AirPort Extreme support, but no PCMCIA slot. the 15" has regular AirPort support... but that is not as strong as even regular airport in any other computer Apple has ever done that supports it.

if you plan on working with Photoshop much, then the 15" will be something you want to consider. yes it's painted, and has some issues with lagging behind the family, but still nice.

JPGR_Fan
Jul 18, 2003, 04:03 PM
My experience has been that the Airport reception on my 15" delivered December, 2002 has been very good. Look for an Apple Developer Note dated November, 2002 and it states that the antennas are on each side of the screen, not on each side of the keyboard as in previous models. Plus, you get it hundreds of dollars less than I paid!

BigJayhawk
Jul 18, 2003, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by JPGR_Fan
My experience has been that the Airport reception on my 15" delivered December, 2002 has been very good. Look for an Apple Developer Note dated November, 2002 and it states that the antennas are on each side of the screen, not on each side of the keyboard as in previous models. Plus, you get it hundreds of dollars less than I paid!

I think the Airport Range issues are due to the Aluminum rather than Titanium shields the signal less AND the antennas in the Aluminum PBooks are at the TOP monitor corners -- not the bottom corners like the TiBook.

Anyway, if the range (as noted by Steve Jobs) on the Aluminum PBooks is like that of the iBook then there is NO COMPARISON on the range. My iBook Airport Range is about DOUBLE that of my TiBook. However, that being KNOWN, I still LOVE my TiBook. Just food for thought.

The other issue mentioned above is BATTERY LIFE. If you really want Battery Life, the iBook ABSOLUTELY KILLS the TiBook. REAL TIME with heavy use on a TiBook -- 2 hours is VERY LUCKY. REAL TIME with heavy use on a 14" iBook -- 3-4 hours EASILY! (Remember, I'm talking HEAVY USE -- not simple battery life standard tests.)

The iBook has some extra weight and durability but the G3 is a great portable processor. When IBM adds Altivec and goes beyond the G4 speeds (or at least close), I think it will be a BETTER portable processor than the G4 in almost EVERY ASPECT. (But you won't be able to COOK AN EGG WITH IT! :p )