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MacRumors
Jul 19, 2003, 02:08 PM
LoopRumors (http://www.looprumors.com/) claims that the iSight technology will be built into future displays.



AppleMatt
Jul 19, 2003, 02:26 PM
hmmm. Nice idea.

What about people who already own iSights? What about people who don't want to spend extra on having an iSight built in? What about people who own 3 macs and would rather buy one iSight, use the 3 stands on their macs and move it.

ie, PowerBook, PowerMac.

More importantly...How the hell will Apple fit a lens of that quality into a lid that's well under 1cm thick (PowerBooks) and what about the bezel? It'll look so ugly being really thick on one side.

I'm assuming it'll be built into the tops of the displays as Apple likes the 'make a connection' thing.

AppleMatt

jettredmont
Jul 19, 2003, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by AppleMatt
More importantly...How the hell will Apple fit a lens of that quality into a lid that's well under 1cm thick (PowerBooks) and what about the bezel? It'll look so ugly being really thick on one side.


Hmmm ... how large it the lense diameter? Thinner than the powerbook lid? If so, you could mount the lens looking up or looking to the side, and place a 45-degree mirror to redirect the view to the user. Or, have the lense facing the viewer with said mirror redirecting to the optics. Single mirror means you'll have to electronically mirror-image the results, but that's a simple thing to do ...

I would just hope that we can still alter how the lens is aimed, just a few degrees up, down, left and right ought to do it.

This is all wild speculation of course ...

dguisinger
Jul 19, 2003, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by AppleMatt
hmmm. Nice idea.

What about people who already own iSights? What about people who don't want to spend extra on having an iSight built in? What about people who own 3 macs and would rather buy one iSight, use the 3 stands on their macs and move it.

ie, PowerBook, PowerMac.

More importantly...How the hell will Apple fit a lens of that quality into a lid that's well under 1cm thick (PowerBooks) and what about the bezel? It'll look so ugly being really thick on one side.

I'm assuming it'll be built into the tops of the displays as Apple likes the 'make a connection' thing.

AppleMatt

If all displays were to receive it, you probably would not notice a price change, so then why care? Most likely the components cost Apple all of $5-$10 to put the cameras together. CCD chips are common and cheap.

pretentious
Jul 19, 2003, 06:48 PM
They won't build in iSights in the Displays, esp. into the PowerBooks. They are too large, too expensive and too hot.
For one thing is that there are increasing amount of companies who don't even allow cell phones w/ cameras on them, because they are afraid of confidential documents or devices being leaked. Apple would lose sales if iSights are built in to there devises, to these usually hightech companies.
Second how would they build it in? How would you adjust it? Would you have to move the entire Display in order for it to be looking directly at you? It would simply be a bad design unless its modular like it is now.
Another thing is how you would it plug in? Are they going to have to make another proprietary plug-in for Firewire through the display? or How about a fat cord that splits and takes up your one and only FW400 plug in your new G5? No, and no more bad design.
It would make more since if they included a just standard mount built in to their Displays, and sale the iSights to the after market crowd who can and would like one.

nuckinfutz
Jul 19, 2003, 07:06 PM
Looprumors has never been right on anything that a normal person couldn't deduce. There are more reasons NOT to integrate iSight than to integrate it.

Best you could hope for is built in mounting systems rather than the stick on jobbies.

gralem
Jul 19, 2003, 07:07 PM
I don't work for Apple, but I do come from the future. And it's completely true. Sometime within the next 2-50 years, *ALL* monitors will include built-in iSight-like devices. Of course the first company to lead the way in this technology will be Apple.

I'm nearly 100% certain that the first Apple device to include this integrated technology will be the next 15" powerbook. That should tell you how far in the future I come from!

:)

The future--it's an exciting time to live!

---gralem

junior
Jul 19, 2003, 08:01 PM
Just look at the number of Vaio's that have been released over the last 4 years with cameras built in (they used to be for stills, now for motion). They're not of bad quality these days either.
Maybe the cameras don't have to be as good in quality as the iSight (therefore being able to make it smaller). It could be a case of going out and buying an iSight if you really want better quality, though I doubt it.

rainman::|:|
Jul 19, 2003, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by gralem
I don't work for Apple, but I do come from the future. And it's completely true. Sometime within the next 2-50 years, *ALL* monitors will include built-in iSight-like devices. Of course the first company to lead the way in this technology will be Apple.

I'm nearly 100% certain that the first Apple device to include this integrated technology will be the next 15" powerbook. That should tell you how far in the future I come from!

:)

The future--it's an exciting time to live!

---gralem

But what if your coming here translates through the applied-chaos theory (a butterfly flaps it's wings in Monaco and it rains in New York) causes the timeline to skew and digital cameras never make it into *any* hardware, causing your parents never to video-chat for the first time, and hook up, and have a shotgun wedding that resulted in you? Then you couldn't have come at all, meaning none of this would have happened. Meaning, essentially, that this conversation doesn't exist. I'm making toast in the kitchen right now.

hmm...

pnw

JtheLemur
Jul 19, 2003, 09:43 PM
*ahem* Earth to all you people... junior makes a very very good point.

LoopRumors said Apple will be integrating "iSight technology" into Displays, and potentially PowerBooks. They didn't say they'd be building ACTUAL iSights INTO THEM!!

"iSight Technology" is essentially a CCD with a good mic, that works with iChat AV. THAT IS ALL! Nothing more! Rip apart your iSights and see for yourselves.

Now, since Sony has been incorporating this for years on their Vaois, and Sanyo, Hitachi, Toshiba, and many others have been doing them to mobile phones for years (my Sanyo 5300 phone has a CCD on the back of the flip. Yes CCD, NOT CMOS).

SO, TO DO THIS, all apple has to do is get a nice small high-quality CCD and throw it into the screen bezels. They do NOT have to integrate the big metal tube that is the CURRENT iSight.

There you go, simple as anything - you've got a "Cinema Display with built-in iSight Technology". And later, "PowerBook with built-in iSight Technology".

Sheesh, now arent you all ashamed of yourselves for assuming they'd be integrating the current big-metal-tube that is the iSight into displays and laptops? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

pellucidity
Jul 19, 2003, 10:06 PM
Wait a minute- for desktop displays, there would be an issue of the Firewire connection, unless ADC2 has a built-in firewire extension- or Apple makes some ugly cable with an ADC connector and a 6-pin Firewire.

The easy answer would be a built-in USB2 iSight that would only work with G5s, since ADC could probably support USB2 on the G5 while remaining mostly compatible....you couldn't use the camera or hi-speed USB2 devices, so apple might intentionally lock a new display out of the older machines, but you could make USB1.1 devices work.

JtheLemur
Jul 19, 2003, 10:22 PM
They could perhaps upgrade the ADC spec to include FireWire AND USB.

Or, just make the built-in iSight have an integrated FireWire cable - making the ADC cable tail in an ADC connector that goes into the video card, and a FireWire connector that goes into an empty FireWire port. =D

ZildjianKX
Jul 19, 2003, 10:27 PM
I swear Apple invented the ADC just so PB users would have to buy an expensive adapter so they would make more money...

pretentious
Jul 19, 2003, 10:46 PM
Now, since Sony has been incorporating this for years on their Vaois, and Sanyo, Hitachi, Toshiba, and many others have been doing them to mobile phones for years (my Sanyo 5300 phone has a CCD on the back of the flip. Yes CCD, NOT CMOS).
SO, TO DO THIS, all apple has to do is get a nice small high-quality CCD and throw it into the screen bezels. They do NOT have to integrate the big metal tube that is the CURRENT iSight.
Yes Sony and other companies have been including cameras in laptops and phones for years now, but I seem to recall that Steve was saying that the reason that they are doing cameras now was because the technology and quality was finally good enough to be worth it. Those cameras included on those devises are pretty darn poor, and they don't even touch the quality that you get in a Firewire digital cam like the iSight.

The easy answer would be a built-in USB2 iSight that would only work with G5s, since ADC could probably support USB2 on the G5 while remaining mostly compatible....you couldn't use the camera or hi-speed USB2 devices, so apple might intentionally lock a new display out of the older machines, but you could make USB1.1 devices work.
So you want them to make a new camera (USB2 not FW), with heat, cost, design aside, with another proprietary connection that nVidea and ATI would have to build around to make work, and that that these displays will only work on the Rev. B G5s with the newest cards in 'em (ATI's newest 9800 doesn't have this connection). Am I crazy but I don't see this happening.

JtheLemur
Jul 20, 2003, 12:10 AM
Yes Sony and other companies have been including cameras in laptops and phones for years now, but I seem to recall that Steve was saying that the reason that they are doing cameras now was because the technology and quality was finally good enough to be worth it. Those cameras included on those devises are pretty darn poor, and they don't even touch the quality that you get in a Firewire digital cam like the iSight.


Well, granted the iSight is probably the best webcam-type camera I've ever seen. BUT, I'm sitting here checking out the camera on my Vaio Picturebook (model # came off the casing, but it's like, one of the first models). Comparing it to the iSight, it really does stand up - the iSight works better in low light and has a higher refresh rate, but the quality is on-par. Plus the Sony lets you easily snap still shots.

So I'm saying, that if Apple were to build-in iSights, they'd basically be "Sony-type" - that is, small CCDs integrated into bezels, and labeled as "iSight Technology".

Which is a good thing! It would be great to be able to use iChat AV on a PowerBook without having to carry around the extra hardware. =D

mustang_dvs
Jul 20, 2003, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by JtheLemur
(SNIP)
"iSight Technology" is essentially a CCD with a good mic, that works with iChat AV. THAT IS ALL! Nothing more! Rip apart your iSights and see for yourselves.
(SNIP)

Well, I hope no one actually took their iSight apart, mainly because iSighting (http://www.isighting.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2) already did that.

(not for the faint of heart)

http://isighting.com/iSight_01.jpg

Wonder Boy
Jul 20, 2003, 01:14 AM
If looprumors said it, it must be true...can you feel the sarcasm?

guiverunit
Jul 20, 2003, 06:46 AM
Just because its iSight technology doesn't mean the camera it could be the two mics

blogo
Jul 20, 2003, 07:58 AM
Wow, built-in, that would look really ugly.

AppleMatt
Jul 20, 2003, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by guiverunit
Just because its iSight technology doesn't mean the camera it could be the two mics

Good point. There have been a number of previous rumors that would support this too.

However I still think this rumor is rubbish.

AppleMatt

scem0
Jul 20, 2003, 12:01 PM
God, Apple isn't that stupid are they?

I don't want to pay for an iSight. I have absolutely no use for an iSight and I don't want to pay for one along with an apple display which is expensive to boot. Not that I would every buy an apple monitor in their current state with their current prices.

Apple would be crazy to do this...

scem0

Jerry Spoon
Jul 20, 2003, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by paulwhannel
But what if your coming here translates through the applied-chaos theory (a butterfly flaps it's wings in Monaco and it rains in New York) causes the timeline to skew and digital cameras never make it into *any* hardware, causing your parents never to video-chat for the first time, and hook up, and have a shotgun wedding that resulted in you? Then you couldn't have come at all, meaning none of this would have happened. Meaning, essentially, that this conversation doesn't exist. I'm making toast in the kitchen right now.

hmm...

pnw
That means we'll never hear from gralem again... oh shoot:D

BWhaler
Jul 20, 2003, 07:25 PM
LoopRumors is notoriously bad, and this is one of their dumber claims.

In the short term--e.g. the next 12-24 months--why would Apple give away $149 of revenue? Things like iSight are not at the point where people will pay a premium for it to be in their monitor. Plus, look at the size of the thing. Why would Apple spend the money to engineer it to fit in a flat screen only to effectively give it away.

In the long term, e.g. 3+ years, yeah, they're probably "right."

I think MacRumors should stop posting their stuff, even from Page 2. It's probably just a couple of kids making stuff up to see the hit counts.

gooddog
Jul 21, 2003, 12:20 AM
I don't know whether to sit back and let you fumble this topic indefinitely, or to step in here and sshhcreeew the whole thing up myself.

Anyone who has used QuickVoice, on a Flat-panel iMac, will tell you that the mic already built into the display is awesome.

Likewise for the iBook's.

When I play back QV files over my soundsticks with gellyfish subwoofer, it sounds like I am actually in the room

(wait, I AM actually in the room ... whatever !) ....

so only the imager need be built into the display.

This could take the form of a slide-up piece that pops up from behind the clear bezel of the screen, in Kilroy fashion, and is otherwise flush / minimalist with the white part of the display back --- like a thumb tab on the upper edge of the white part of the display --- push in, it pops up : better yet,

launch iSight and it pops up.

It would look much like the iMac smiley CD tray cover, only smaller and straight.

The complex, aspherical lenses will be replaced by an equivalent *hologram* of them and the optical path thus reduced to under 1 cm.

The pop-up's holo-aperture will have a frosted acrylic bezel that glows softly to indicate on-off status and a "floating" Apple logo will haunt the lense when "shuttered" via electrically driven opacity glass.

It will be "the apple of your eye" :)



If you wish to assemble your own interrositer successfully, you must begin to think like Ive and learn to duck the ray thinggy at the corners.

The chronosynclastic infindibulum is now reset and all paradoxen were/are/will be empted.


---gooddog

jbomber
Jul 21, 2003, 01:53 AM
uhm. i'm saying no on this one. apple's not going to destroy their brand new toy by making it a standard integrated addition to their other tech. end of story.

sorry. loop rumors got it wrong.

ttfan
Jul 21, 2003, 11:42 AM
iSight in a display?

I think powerbook displays are going to OLED in a few years, which means their displays will be really thin. Does Apple want to push CCD into their displays at this point of time? :confused:

Phil Of Mac
Jul 23, 2003, 10:43 PM
Originally posted by gralem
I'm nearly 100% certain that the first Apple device to include this integrated technology will be the next 15" powerbook.


So THAT'S what's taking it so long! :)

paulie
Jul 24, 2003, 02:31 AM
Just a little FYI for everyone about laptops and small cameras..

Here in Japan, we've had cameras in our cellular phones here since late 2000. My newest phone has a megapixel camera capable of recording up to 3 minutes of video (all on 8 megs of memory). The camera is built into the top of the flip-phone, along with a flash, and the whole thing is only about 1cm thick.

So, as for the technology existing to do this right, it's there, and Apple will have easy access to it.

Expect a bluetooth capable phone that will be "iSight technology" compatible within the next 12 months. Apple is always thinking ahead. "iSight technology" is more about enabling iChat AV and delivering "video conferencing for the rest of us" than it is about snazzy firewire cameras.

Videophones are nothing new, but a simple and easy-to-use implementation of them.. that's something special.

jbomber
Jul 24, 2003, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by paulwhannel
But what if your coming here translates through the applied-chaos theory (a butterfly flaps it's wings in Monaco and it rains in New York) causes the timeline to skew and digital cameras never make it into *any* hardware, causing your parents never to video-chat for the first time, and hook up, and have a shotgun wedding that resulted in you? Then you couldn't have come at all, meaning none of this would have happened. Meaning, essentially, that this conversation doesn't exist. I'm making toast in the kitchen right now.

hmm...

pnw

wow.

you're crazy...

but i like it.