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mactastic
Jul 20, 2003, 06:49 PM
I found this Newsweek article about the state (no pun intended) California is in, and how it got here. Very good analysis IMHO.

State of Siege (http://msnbc.com/news/941030.asp?0cl=c1)

Enjoy!

zimv20
Jul 20, 2003, 07:25 PM
(The enormous state deficit is mirrored by the growing federal version, now expected to be $450 billion this fiscal year.)

so... anyone supporting the recall of davis should also be questioning if bush is the right person for the job, yes?

IJ Reilly
Jul 20, 2003, 08:04 PM
Well done, thanks for posting the link.

National trends tend to start in California, so those who might be tempted to poke fun had better watch out.

Incidentally, I read in a newspaper this morning that some people are talking about drafting Ariana Huffington to run on the recall ballot. I have to admit, that would make this thing interesting.

mactastic
Jul 20, 2003, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by IJ Reilly
Incidentally, I read in a newspaper this morning that some people are talking about drafting Ariana Huffington to run on the recall ballot. I have to admit, that would make this thing interesting.

Haha, I heard that too... as a progressive candidate no less! The Green Party guy was even talking about suporting her if she embraced a progressive platform. What a state!

Rower_CPU
Jul 20, 2003, 08:56 PM
Speaking of progressisvism in CA...

I heard a story on NPR today about a law change taking place in San Francisco.

Precautionary Principal (http://www.sfgov.org/sfenvironment/articles_pr/2003/article/061903.htm)

Quite a breakthrough for environmental action and making business more accountable for what it puts into the environment.

macfan
Jul 20, 2003, 09:19 PM
Sadly, California is a basket case. The state spent like there was no tomorrow, spending increased much faster than the population and when the economy turned down, as it always does, they were left with a terrible deficit. They can't get a budget passed right now, and then there is the recall. About a third of the signers are Democrats, and Davis has an approval rating in the low 20s. California, according to reports I've heard, ranks as the worst state in which to do business.

mactastic
Jul 20, 2003, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by macfan
Sadly, California is a basket case. The state spent like there was no tomorrow, spending increased much faster than the population and when the economy turned down, as it always does, they were left with a terrible deficit. They can't get a budget passed right now, and then there is the recall. About a third of the signers are Democrats, and Davis has an approval rating in the low 20s. California, according to reports I've heard, ranks as the worst state in which to do business.

Sounds like the federal government too.

macfan
Jul 20, 2003, 10:26 PM
The federal government has a budget, and they have a leader who the people actually like!

zimv20
Jul 20, 2003, 10:31 PM
... a little less every day.

mactastic
Jul 20, 2003, 10:34 PM
There have been times when the federal budget has been held up by the same kinds of political manuvering that is going on here now. As for a leader we like, well you are correct, not many of us like Davis. Unfortunately we may face a situation where someone is elected with less than 30% of the poor turnout of people who will actually go vote that day. As bad as Davis is, I fear it could get worse.

macfan
Jul 20, 2003, 11:04 PM
Davis needs to resign for the good of his party. That will kill the recall, and he will be replaced by the Lt. Gov., also a Democrat.

mactastic
Jul 20, 2003, 11:06 PM
That is actually one of the best outcomes possible. I'm not counting on Davis to be that magnanimous.

mactastic
Jul 20, 2003, 11:09 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Speaking of progressisvism in CA...

I heard a story on NPR today about a law change taking place in San Francisco.

Precautionary Principal (http://www.sfgov.org/sfenvironment/articles_pr/2003/article/061903.htm)

Quite a breakthrough for environmental action and making business more accountable for what it puts into the environment.

Rower, that is amazing, I hadn't even heard of that, although it's a concept I'd played around with in my head for a while, but given up on as not possible.. That's why I like living here! (Well, that and being right by the ocean) Good find!

Sayhey
Jul 20, 2003, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Speaking of progressisvism in CA...

I heard a story on NPR today about a law change taking place in San Francisco.

Precautionary Principal (http://www.sfgov.org/sfenvironment/articles_pr/2003/article/061903.htm)

Quite a breakthrough for environmental action and making business more accountable for what it puts into the environment.

Did I say how great a city my hometown is? I wish I could say I had a clue about this before Rower_CPU's post, but it's great nonetheless.

As to the recall - I hate Davis! It saddens me that I will have to vote for him again over Arnold, Riordan and the rest of the republicans trying to make hay out of the budget crisis. Hopefully the inititive to change the majority need to 55% to pass a state budget will pass and we won't have to deal with stonewalling republicans just to get the state's business done.

Rower_CPU
Jul 20, 2003, 11:56 PM
As a lucky state employee who may receive a minimum wage check on September 1st, believe me I hope the budget gets sorted out quickly.

pseudobrit
Jul 21, 2003, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by macfan
The federal government has a budget, and they have a leader who the people actually like!

As opposed to when the Repubs shut down the gov't under Clinton and it didn't have a budget and the people actually liked the leader.

Oh, and the budget wasn't set half a trillion dollars in the red, either.

macfan
Jul 21, 2003, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
As opposed to when the Repubs shut down the gov't under Clinton and it didn't have a budget and the people actually liked the leader.

Oh, and the budget wasn't set half a trillion dollars in the red, either.

Yes, as opposed to when Republicans and Clinton shut down the government and it didn't have a budget for a while. Frankly, it didn't hurt anything as they only stopped those functions that they could do without for a while.

But back to California, the topic of the thread... Davis, who has a line item veto, promised he would deal carefully with money during the good times, but he didn't, and this is the result. There were some fat years, and some lean years, and the lean ones are eating up the fat ones in California because the state's executive and legislature, which are all run by the same party, failed to take appropriate action and instead spent the money like there was not tomorrow. Well, welcome to tomorrow.

wwworry
Jul 21, 2003, 05:50 AM
Recall Bush. Recall Pataki.
They lied about Budget deficits.

mactastic
Jul 21, 2003, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by macfan
Yes, as opposed to when Republicans and Clinton shut down the government and it didn't have a budget for a while. Frankly, it didn't hurt anything as they only stopped those functions that they could do without for a while.

But back to California, the topic of the thread... Davis, who has a line item veto, promised he would deal carefully with money during the good times, but he didn't, and this is the result. There were some fat years, and some lean years, and the lean ones are eating up the fat ones in California because the state's executive and legislature, which are all run by the same party, failed to take appropriate action and instead spent the money like there was not tomorrow. Well, welcome to tomorrow.

What the heck do you think the Federal government is doing now? I fail to see any fiscal restraint from either party in DC. Those people are spending money like the proverbial drunken sailor. Only difference, other than the size of the deficit, is that the feds are allowed to deficit spend and the states have strict balanced budget laws. Bush would be in the same pickle if the feds had to adhere to the same rules as the states. I'm not sure how this makes California a basket case. Thats pretty harsh IMHO.

macfan
Jul 21, 2003, 10:26 AM
California is a basket case independent of it's budget woes, IMO. We have people working to ensure the rights of guys on skid row to crap in the street. We have laws, or at least seriously proposed laws, to provide driving permits to illegal immigrants. We have towns that seek to require handicapped access in private residences if you want to remodel your home.

Also, I don't think all states are required to have a zero deficit.

wwworry,
Does New York have a recall provision? The US does not. It is an empty argument to call for a recall when there is no provision for one.

zimv20
Jul 21, 2003, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by macfan

I don't think all states are required to have a zero deficit.


every state must balance its budget.

IJ Reilly
Jul 21, 2003, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by zimv20
every state must balance its budget.

Sure, most states (I'm not certain "every" is correct) must balance their budgets, but they can also keep bonded indebtedness off the books, so it's a bit of a shell-game. In fact California's budget will ultimately be "balanced" with some amount of borrowing. Nobody, Republicans or Democrats, is proposing to deal with this calamity without creating debt.

As if we needed another, here's a sad fact about the Davis recall: If the recall vote goes on the ballot in early October, as expected, that will leave roughly two months of campaigning for prospective candidates to replace Gray Davis. Quite possibly less. This will leave no time at all for fund raising or building support. Therefore, if a candidate isn't already sitting on a pot of money, they haven't got a prayer. IOW, only millionaires need apply in this race.

wwworry
Jul 21, 2003, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by macfan
wwworry,
Does New York have a recall provision? The US does not. It is an empty argument to call for a recall when there is no provision for one.

I can wish, can't I?