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MacRumors
Jul 12, 2007, 01:34 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

A recent Apple patent application (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=7&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=apple.AS.&OS=AN/apple&RS=AN/apple) entitled "Media Data Exchange, Transfer, or Delivery for Portable Electronic Devices" is generating some buzz.

The patent application was filed on September 1, 2006 and addresses methods for mobile devices to wirelessly discover others in the local vicinity and transmit data from one another. Examples of data shared include video, music, games, photos, playlists, and slideshows. They do make special note of restricted sharing for certain media that may have "limited-use rights".

Electronista notes (http://www.electronista.com/articles/07/07/12/apple.zune.like.patent/) that the method could be used for something more useful than just one-to-one transfers:
Users could even create a random or semi-random effect through this method by telling the device or server on the opposite end to randomly load the device with content, similar to the way the iPod shuffle's AutoFill creates a new mix of songs through USB.

Some comparisons are being made to Microsoft's Zune product which allows Zune-to-Zune wireless sharing, though Zune's launch was approximately 2 months following the filing of this patent application. As well, historically, Apple has explored similar auto-discovery techniques (over RF at the time) with early prototypes of the Apple Newton (pre-1993).

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/12/apple-explores-wireless-sharing/)



Eidorian
Jul 12, 2007, 01:35 PM
Did we have some other wireless patents on this show up earlier this year? I believe they were self-setup networks though. Devices would search for others and pair up to share.

p0intblank
Jul 12, 2007, 01:37 PM
I would love to be able to share my music and photos on my iPhone, just like how you can on the Mac. Make it password protected and I'm sold. :)

reubs
Jul 12, 2007, 01:37 PM
Could be interesting to see. Would be a lot easier than e mail in some instances, I'm sure. I just don't know if I want some people to have full access to everything on my HDD...

whooleytoo
Jul 12, 2007, 01:41 PM
Oh, bugger. :p This sounds similar to an idea I worked on some time back. (Simply, a phone/PDA peer to peer software in which you set up search/favourites criteria, and as you move about it automatically detects peers and downloads any content it finds relevant to your preferences.)

Had a catchy product name & URL registered and all.. But it was a security & battery-life nightmare, so I abandoned it.

It'll be interesting to see how Apple handles these issues, if this ends up in a shipping product.

Raid
Jul 12, 2007, 01:45 PM
Could be interesting to see. Would be a lot easier than e mail in some instances, I'm sure. I just don't know if I want some people to have full access to everything on my HDD...
I was thinking the same thing. I'm sure Apple is going to do some inventive stuff with this, but they are going to have to maintain the devices security and enhance the transfer speed... otherwise it would seem just like bluetooth technology with a few extra bells and whistles.

For now I'll just wait and see how long it will take to see this rumour embedded in the iPhone v2 enhancments. ;)

DVNIEL
Jul 12, 2007, 01:49 PM
Hhmmm....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR-H8uD0UBc

FJ218700
Jul 12, 2007, 01:52 PM
All we need now is the wireless charging to come about and I may buy my first iPod

killerrobot
Jul 12, 2007, 01:53 PM
Hhmmm....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR-H8uD0UBc

That's exactly what I was thinking. It amazing how many times I've brought this up in other threads (it would be cool for the next iPod), and everyone bashed it, saying that "wireless" was unnecessary. I wonder what they'll say now if Apple does it.:rolleyes:

JGowan
Jul 12, 2007, 01:54 PM
First person to say "Squirt"! :D

longofest
Jul 12, 2007, 01:57 PM
First person to say "Squirt"! :D

EXACTLY what I was thinking... Squirting is coming to iPod :-)

failsafe1
Jul 12, 2007, 01:59 PM
Anyway to tie this into the announcement about the easy printing setup? Sharing from your iPhone to your printer perhaps? Print those pesky e-mails or directions?

princealfie
Jul 12, 2007, 02:08 PM
I hate the restrictions on the Zune 3 x 3 rule.
Gimme unlimited use and I'm on board.

Black Belt
Jul 12, 2007, 02:10 PM
"Squirting", or in Apple's case "Spitting Apple Seeds" is nice but you could do some very cool stuff with this like having your iPod in your car get new podcasts and playlists by just pulling into your garage.

LillieDesigns
Jul 12, 2007, 02:14 PM
Only thing I don't like is that Steve mocked Zune users awhile back saying this method of sharing was stupid and a "real man (gadget guy...I dunno) would go over to a girl and share headphones.

Now there's hype about using the technology...all I really want is over the air iTunes downloads.

QuarterSwede
Jul 12, 2007, 02:16 PM
I wonder what they'll say now if Apple does it.:rolleyes:
It depends on how they implement it.

jelloshotsrule
Jul 12, 2007, 02:16 PM
what is the wireless technology that the zune uses to share data between devices? How speedy is it, etc.?

killerrobot
Jul 12, 2007, 02:19 PM
It depends on how they implement it.

I was pushing for "music on the go" (I know the zune can't do it) -- everyone called me an Apple hater.:)

rob@robburns.co
Jul 12, 2007, 02:23 PM
Perhaps this too mundane and practical, but I would really like to see user initiated sharing of address book cards (vcards), urls, and public certificates (like RSA, etc). This way you could share your electronic business card with someone or a public certificate to bootstrap a secure trust relationship: all face-to-face.

This could be a big deal, where you could even go into a bank in person; open an account; and leave with a public cert from the bank (later synced to your desktop via iTunes) that would completely obsolete all current phishing schemes.

The other great thing would be to transfer funds between two people. I hear in Finland (and probably other places too), people already use their cell-phone to make small purchases (vending machines and such). Perhaps we don't have the infrastructure here in the U.S. yet, but even to just connect it in with paypal and completely automate the payment and payment confirmation process between two iPhones or iPods would be very nice.

fangiotophia
Jul 12, 2007, 02:25 PM
I have a feeling that this is going to be used in a very different way than people expect. I have been hearing buzz about universities possibly using the iPhone in the classroom. All rumors at the moment, but I can see the advantage of the professor coming in with his/her presentation on their iPhone and sharing it to all of the students. Giving out your contact information would be a cinch and if done properly. What better way for a student to submit their homework than by simply walking in the room?

I think this has some amazing possibilities for the future. All Apple has to do is put their imagination to work (which shouldn't be hard considering they do it every day).

:apple:

bravedeer
Jul 12, 2007, 02:42 PM
The problem with that implementation is the same as with the Zune's. Basically most people don't want to be sent random songs from random people.

What we need is a reverse implementation where you can browse people's music , listen to sample and pick what you want to download.

The Zune implementation is like going to iTunes and having it send you songs instead of you choosing what you want.

I have a feeling that this is going to be used in a very different way than people expect. I have been hearing buzz about universities possibly using the iPhone in the classroom. All rumors at the moment, but I can see the advantage of the professor coming in with his/her presentation on their iPhone and sharing it to all of the students. Giving out your contact information would be a cinch and if done properly. What better way for a student to submit their homework than by simply walking in the room?

I think this has some amazing possibilities for the future. All Apple has to do is put their imagination to work (which shouldn't be hard considering they do it every day).

:apple:

defeated
Jul 12, 2007, 03:29 PM
what will the Steve Jobs' face look like when Bill Gates accuse him of photocopying?

johnee
Jul 12, 2007, 03:36 PM
Oh, bugger. :p This sounds similar to an idea I worked on some time back. (Simply, a phone/PDA peer to peer software in which you set up search/favourites criteria, and as you move about it automatically detects peers and downloads any content it finds relevant to your preferences.)

Had a catchy product name & URL registered and all.. But it was a security & battery-life nightmare, so I abandoned it.

It'll be interesting to see how Apple handles these issues, if this ends up in a shipping product.

You're exactly right. The concept of auto-detection is hardly new and in itself is not patentable. However specific implementations which could save power are patentable (assuming they are novel and not used/written about in the public domain.)

The only real barrier i see to this being a product is power consumption.
If apple doesn't have a way to reduce the power used, then this is not possible.

macintel4me
Jul 12, 2007, 03:55 PM
Peer-to-peer networking on the next level...distributed wirelessly...and legal. Nice! :cool:

peters438
Jul 12, 2007, 04:08 PM
I remember when Bluetooth first started showing up on phones and PDA's. Me and a friend spent an hour sending each other wireless business cards. Hardly a killer app.

I'm not sure I'd want to waste my iPod or iPhone's battery so everyone in Starbucks can listen to my music. Steve's right--real men share headphones.

Of course, the real benefit of technology like this is easy transfer of content you've created--like photos, videos, slideshows.

peters438
Jul 12, 2007, 04:14 PM
I have a feeling that this is going to be used in a very different way than people expect. I have been hearing buzz about universities possibly using the iPhone in the classroom. All rumors at the moment, but I can see the advantage of the professor coming in with his/her presentation on their iPhone and sharing it to all of the students.

Agreed. The Ipod is already a pretty capable presentation device for your typical classroom or boardroom presentation. And people are always asking for a copy of presentations.

elmimmo
Jul 12, 2007, 04:19 PM
For Christ sake, stop adding **** like games, world clock and coffee dispenser, AND ADD A FRIGGING MICROPHONE. It's about time!!

guzhogi
Jul 12, 2007, 04:19 PM
Might be cool. I'm sure there'd have to be some DRM stuff or something. Maybe something like how you authorize your computer to play iTunes songs/videos, same thing can be done w/ iPods & iPhones. Wouldn't like it, but would help w/ the legal issues. The two devices can see which accounts the other(s) is authorized for. If they're authorized for the same account, they can share the DRM'ed music. If not, too bad. Also, maybe multiplayer games would be cool.

Also, I'd like to see people be able to use & download stuff from the iTunes Store on their iPods/iPhones. In another thread, someone said that if you leave the wi-fi spot before you're finished, what happens? Maybe the download would stop and you can continue when you're reconnected to the internet. iTunes already has this or a similar feature in iTunes. Just go to to Store -> Check for purchases. Anything you haven't downloaded yet can be downloaded. Hopefully, Apple will add a feature where you can redownload stuff just in case you lose it. Also, be able to take songs & videos from your iPod to your computer through iTunes. That would really come in handy.

A built-in microphone would be good, too. Students can record lectures and listen back over & over. Would be cool if you can take video, too since a lot of lecturers write stuff on the board or do something that audio won't pick up. But that might make things too complicated or would totally suck.

Rocketman
Jul 12, 2007, 04:22 PM
Only thing I don't like is that Steve mocked Zune users awhile back saying this method of sharing was stupid and a "real man (gadget guy...I dunno) would go over to a girl and share headphones.

Now there's hype about using the technology...all I really want is over the air iTunes downloads.

What he actually said was the power consumption of their implementation was excessive and wrecked the experience.

The commentary about his statement went well beyond that.

Bottom line is Apple has wifi too, BUT, does so at far lower power consumption and battery life and at higher bandwidth.

Rocketman

robertnq
Jul 12, 2007, 04:34 PM
Only thing I don't like is that Steve mocked Zune users awhile back saying this method of sharing was stupid and a "real man (gadget guy...I dunno) would go over to a girl and share headphones.

Now there's hype about using the technology...all I really want is over the air iTunes downloads.

i remeber that but he really mock it because it was so freakin slow...i think that was his point...i think he like the idea but hated the way microsoft brought out this feature...the message is only as good as the delivery of the message...

ps...i thought that comment was the most hilarious thing I ever heard steve say..LoL

Porchland
Jul 12, 2007, 04:37 PM
"Squirting", or in Apple's case "Spitting Apple Seeds" is nice but you could do some very cool stuff with this like having your iPod in your car get new podcasts and playlists by just pulling into your garage.

... or anywhere else with WiFi.

If Apple takes the iPod wireless, there are a lot of commercial applications that are much more compelling than beaming from one iPod to another:

* an Apple Store for iPod where you can buy tracks over WiFi and iTunes automatically knows to download it on your Mac/PC (the same approach as Exchange syncing from your Treo to Outlook on your PC) or the reverse: add a playlist or new album on iTunes on your Mac/PC and your iPod picks it up over WiFi.

* audio for museum tours -- just type a four-digit code and your iPod downloads the audio tracks.

* podcast updating on the fly -- today's "Fresh Air" without syncing.

* free tracks at a rock concert over a venue or portable WiFi setup.

The user would control the whole thing with four-digit codes just like the way you connect :apple:tv to a Mac over wireless. That way you never get iPod spammed. If you want the MoMA audio tour, you look at the sign that says "MoMa for iPod: Type 1111" and type the code onto the iPod display. Things you have already authorized like podcast downloads and iTunes syncs would update automatically.

donlphi
Jul 12, 2007, 05:03 PM
Only thing I don't like is that Steve mocked Zune users awhile back saying this method of sharing was stupid and a "real man (gadget guy...I dunno) would go over to a girl and share headphones.

Now there's hype about using the technology...all I really want is over the air iTunes downloads.

I think Steve was mocking how lame the zine was for having it when nobody else has one. Apple will think of a much "slicker" way to incorporate it than "squirting".

nagromme
Jul 12, 2007, 05:11 PM
At least when an iPod squirts it has a good chance of hitting another iPod. Every new iPod generation is a big seller, unlike the Zune it would seem. If the two Zune owners ever come close enough to squirt, it will be a freak coincidence worthy of headlines.

(But really this sounds like an idea that will never come to market.)

lazyrighteye
Jul 12, 2007, 05:48 PM
For Christ sake, stop adding **** like games, world clock and coffee dispenser, AND ADD A FRIGGING MICROPHONE. It's about time!!

Audio IN please.

wnurse
Jul 12, 2007, 05:53 PM
I think Steve was mocking how lame the zine was for having it when nobody else has one. Apple will think of a much "slicker" way to incorporate it than "squirting".

It's interesting how we all have short memories. I think jobs was pooh poohing the idea of sharing in the first place. (he made the comments before Zune marketshare was even determined). Don't worry, it means nothing. Jobs has done this before.. Remember how at first he dismissed video on an ipod only to later come out with a video ipod?. He also mocked Microsoft Windows XP media saying no one wants to watch tv on a computer.. but I guess people wanted to watch computer on a TV huh?. It's all showmanship. Don't blame jobs really for making what seemed at the time stupid statements.. MS is the big boy, you gotta try to take it down anyway you can.

Jobs has not stopped making stupid statements yet, i assure you.

nagromme
Jul 12, 2007, 06:00 PM
It's interesting how we all have short memories. I think jobs was pooh poohing the idea of sharing in the first place. (he made the comments before Zune marketshare was even determined). Don't worry, it means nothing. Jobs has done this before.. Remember how at first he dismissed video on an ipod only to later come out with a video ipod?. He also mocked Microsoft Windows XP media saying no one wants to watch tv on a computer.. but I guess people wanted to watch computer on a TV huh?. It's all showmanship. Don't blame jobs really for making what seemed at the time stupid statements.. MS is the big boy, you gotta try to take it down anyway you can.

Jobs has not stopped making stupid statements yet, i assure you.

Did jobs really say anything about the Zune's squirting? If he did, he did NOT do it before the Zune's marketshare could be predicted: it started with zero and was facing a predictably uphill battle from there.

And Apple TV is not the same as watching TV on a computer screen. It's more like the opposite, in fact.

But there's no question Jobs does make stupid statements, as do we all :)

netdoc66
Jul 12, 2007, 06:23 PM
Bad idea for apple to do this. They did a horrible bluetooth implementation on the iPhone and the wifi drinks the battery as well. I have to keep all that stuff turned off just to get a half way decent phone and i pod experience. I'd like to see hardware switches to turn that crap off on the i phone when i don't need it instead of menus and definitely give me the option to replace the battery on a mobile device. Easy stuff.

mkrishnan
Jul 12, 2007, 06:28 PM
Welcome to the social, Apple. :)

dicklacara
Jul 12, 2007, 09:57 PM
First person to say "Squirt"! :D

I think the PC term is "Ejaculate"

Poire
Jul 13, 2007, 05:13 AM
Did we have some other wireless patents on this show up earlier this year? I believe they were self-setup networks though. Devices would search for others and pair up to share.

Not necessarly patents, but publications which would likely nullify most of the "inventive" claims in this patent.

Just consider for example:
SIDE Surfer: a Spontaneous Information Discovery and Exchange System (2001)
http://citeseer.ist.psu.edu/649431.html

or
Spontaneous Hotspots: Sharing Context-Dependant Resources Using Bluetooth
(July 2006)
http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1156421.1156477&coll=GUIDE&dl=GUIDE&CFID=15151515&CFTOKEN=6184618

Cleverboy
Jul 13, 2007, 06:05 AM
what will the Steve Jobs' face look like when Bill Gates accuse him of photocopying? Zune's launch was approximately 2 months following the filing of this patent application. As well, historically, Apple has explored similar auto-discovery techniques (over RF at the time) with early prototypes of the Apple Newton (pre-1993).Cómo se dice... "Bite me"?

~ CB

Poire
Jul 13, 2007, 07:22 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
As well, historically, Apple has explored similar auto-discovery techniques (over RF at the time) with early prototypes of the Apple Newton (pre-1993).

I would be very interested to read more about that, do you have pointers or references ?

twoodcc
Jul 13, 2007, 11:00 AM
seems interesting, especially the random fill thing

Black Belt
Jul 13, 2007, 02:24 PM
At least when an iPod squirts it has a good chance of hitting another iPod. Every new iPod generation is a big seller, unlike the Zune it would seem. If the two Zune owners ever come close enough to squirt, it will be a freak coincidence worthy of headlines.


How about a little dose of reality - the first year of Zune will sell a million units compared with Apple's first year iPod of 600k units. Apple is selling to existing marketshare worldwide, Microsoft is going from zero marketshare to some percentage in the US only. Sure the Zune needs A LOT of work but let's be honest with our comments instead of full of hyperbole.

jouster
Jul 14, 2007, 05:29 PM
He also mocked Microsoft Windows XP media saying no one wants to watch tv on a computer.. but I guess people wanted to watch computer on a TV huh?

i guess so, but Apple isn't doing anything to help them.