360 defect....in every console?

[Coded-Dude]

It now seems as if Microsoft’s day has just got far worse than that of Sony, as Microsoft has now publically admitted that not some but “ALL” of their Xbox 360 games consoles have a design defect which could lead to a terminal failure. However they still refuse to issue a recall.

Sony have been worrying about low sales of their Playstation 3, but I bet that that was all Microsoft had to worry about. Robbie Bach from Microsoft’s Xbox360 Division has refused to elaborate on the exact issue of the failure, but many believe that it is down to a dodgy thermal design management this leads to poor heat dissipation, what then happens is a component failure.

All of the 11.6 million Xbox 360’s which have been sold have this defect, but the strange thing is Microsoft has not issued a global recall. However they have extended the warranty on the consoles from one to three years.source1 (http://www.product-reviews.net/2007/07/13/microsoft-admit-116-million-xbox-360s-have-defect-but-no-global-recall)
source2 (http://www.fastsilicon.com/latest-news/microsoft-admits-all-xbox360s-are-defective.html?Itemid=60)

That could end their console gaming division(if true)......ouch.

[wwooden]

As long as we get Halo 3, I could care less if anymore games or consoles come out after that :). I'm starting to get to the point in my life were I have many more important things to do on my free time (work around house, repairs on house, etc.) that I actually want/need to do. The 360 will probably be my last console, so if their game division ends (I doubt it will), I won't be devastated.

[2nyRiggz]

How long have I been saying they need to redesign the thing....the console is not expelling heat correct now they admit that ALL consoles are suject to it.

Somethings I dont understand though.....why are trying to get out halo/simpsons consoles if they know the thing is flawed?

I don't think its a death kneel but it a very big blow to the gaming division....the things they will have to do to make up for it.



Bless

[Coded-Dude]

Well, they are already transitioning LIVE to the PC(which is a larger user base anyways)
If they can get most/all Vista Gamers paying for live services they could stop selling consoles all together.

My prediction: In 3 years we will see a new console from them, or a retirement from the industry.

[srobert]

I wouldn't mind a global recall. My 360 has been giving me the "Unreadable Disk" error message a lot lately and I don't think this problem is covered by their new 3-year extended warrenty.

[Coded-Dude]

:mad: j/k


A global recall would crush even Microsoft(hopefully they won't get forced into one).
Which is probably why they are betting on the extended 3 year warranty - IMHO.

[nbs2]

A global recall would crush even Microsoft(hopefully they won't get forced into one).
Which is probably why they are betting on the extended 3 year warranty - IMHO.

Makes sense. A global recall is going to be a massive hit, in one fell swoop. Even if the heat issue didn't affect a given machine or wouldn't affect it until the machine was considered disposible, MS would take a hit.

With a three year warranty, they avoid the massive recall, press is minimized since warranty submissions don't attract as much attention as a recall, and if someone's machine conks out around the time they are releasing a new machine, the machine may just get tossed instead of replaced. And if your machine is over three years old, MS may just argue that you got enough use out of your machine anyway...

[BoyBach]

I've read that the problem is with the GPU, and more specifically, it's placement within the console.

Apparently the GPU is attached by 400 pieces of solder, and it only takes for one piece to get damaged to cause a catastrophic malfunction. Unfortunately, the GPU is placed directly under the DVD-ROM drive which means that it only has small a heatsink, and not the fan that it needs, to keep it from overheating.

Which is all a shame because I want to buy a Xbox360, but I won't until the innards are completely redesigned.

[bobber205]

I feel the same way at BoyBatch. I really want an Xbox 360 but I won't one until V2.

[zap2]

That could end their console gaming division(if true)......ouch.

Ha...thats funny.



Who do you think we are dealing with? This isn't Sega..

Xbox 360 isn't going anywhere. Also I don't think the market should ever have only two companies.

W
My prediction: In 3 years we will see a new console from them, or a retirement from the industry.

Thats seems right....360 came out in 2005...its 2007, add 3 years, we're at 2010...5 year life span.



I'm not sure what would be weird about that?

But MS isn't leaving gaming...in the living room, not for a while. Not to mention MS should start making some money from 360 soon, they are 6B in the whole, but they are having profits now, right?

[MacRumorUser]

^ exactly. M$ infront of your TV with Live is exactly where M$ want to be.

On the bright side the crapping out 360's are at least covered by warranty for 3 years. I cant begin to tell you the amount of crap ass ps2's where the laser has burned out that I've gont through. At least my 2 360's have worked perfectly since buying thems, and I rest assured knowing if they crap out I'll get a replacement - unlike Sony where I've had to buy again and again..

[Coded-Dude]

Ha...thats funny.



Who do you think we are dealing with? This isn't Sega..

Xbox 360 isn't going anywhere. Also I don't think the market should ever have only two companies.

So what does Microsoft do if some Consumer Advocate company makes them re-call.....?
Rush another piece of shoddy hardware; go a few years with no sales(and more debt) to release and entirely new console(not shoddy), or exit the console industry and stick with PC gaming + LIVE?

[zap2]

So what does Microsoft do if some Consumer Advocate company makes them re-call.....?
Rush another piece of shoddy hardware; go a few years with no sales(and more debt) to release and entirely new console(not shoddy), or exit the console industry and stick with PC gaming + LIVE?

I don't think you honestly believe it will ever come to that....if it does MS will fight tooth and nail to say "Wait, most of our Xbox 360 are fine, and the other not working have a safe guard where they can get new, working consoles for free."

But, if it did, MS would most likely put the 65nm chips in the 360, do a little changing around the hardware inside, and start shiping replacement 360s. It wouldcost alot, but MS need the living room, its a huge market, and they want in on it.

I'll eat my hat, if MS leaves the hardware side of console gaming because of Xbox 360 hardware problems.

[2nyRiggz]

MRU thats a brightside to you...okay then. It continues to crap out and you send it in and they push another faulty one right back at you....do that 12 times like one fella did and see if its a brightside.

MS should be on version 2 now and start rolling out those new 360 instead of bringing out themed faulty 360s. Just like how you haven't had a problem with yours(im sure you are not the only one) people haven't had this much stress with the last gen consoles.

MS did it right the 1st time with the first box but I don't know whats going on.



Bless

[Coded-Dude]

I don't think you honestly believe it will ever come to that....

Your right, I am very skeptical - Only because I know how much power MS has.
They will fight tooth and nail to avoid such a catastrophe, but that doesn't make it any less possible.
(only less probable)


Anywho, a complete redesign would be most ideal scenario for the consumer, and less burdensome on MS pockets(than a complete recall).

It will be interesting to see how these events unfold(to say the least) :p

[Maclarny]

My Xbox 360 died 1.5 months ago. Due to an address mix-up the box to send my console back in didn't show up for 3 weeks. My console arrived at their repair center a week later. After arriving, I called them a week later to check on its status. They said that the average turn around for the consoles was 6-10 business days. A week later, tonight, I called them again. The very courteous representative told me that the repair policy had changed since last I called. The turnaround for broken systems is now 4 weeks. He said I should call them back week form now. I better be receiving a fixed system that will last me.

I love my 360. I love the games it has/will have. I just want it to work.

[XNine]

I'll eat my hat, if MS leaves the hardware side of console gaming because of Xbox 360 hardware problems.

If it DOES happen, then I'm holding you to that. I've never seen anyone eat their hat before and that would be awesome.


I'm on my 3rd 360. It's worked fine since what? March of last year? *thinks* Yeah, something like that. Though every now and then it gives em the "Disc Read Error" (did you know they have three different, varying screens for this ONE problem?!) and I just eject real quick and before it comes out all the way I pop it back in.

I don't think this would kill MS if they did a recall. I mean, they've never made a dime off of their hardware sales. LIVE and games is where they make up for it. Plus, they're a multi-billion dollar company, so i really don't think they'd ever have to worry about it.

[MacRumorUser]

MRU thats a brightside to you...okay then. It continues to crap out and you send it in and they push another faulty one right back at you....do that 12 times like one fella did and see if its a brightside.

That's the benefit of having two - I'll never go without ;):D

Not really a brightside I guess, but I was just making the point that at least they offer 3 year warranty, unlike my ps2's which all lasted about 12 months at the most before dieing on me, and then cost me to replace.

However if my 360 had gone through that many repairs / replacements I would certainly be peeved.


Anyway if they do redesign, it had better be god damn better than crappy elite, and alien version they were showing off. But I'm not a betting man, so I wont be holding my breath.

[mathwhiz90601]

source1 (http://www.product-reviews.net/2007/07/13/microsoft-admit-116-million-xbox-360s-have-defect-but-no-global-recall)
source2 (http://www.fastsilicon.com/latest-news/microsoft-admits-all-xbox360s-are-defective.html?Itemid=60)

That could end their console gaming division(if true)......ouch.

Then Apple could jump into the market with an iGamer or something and reap $$$ :D

[Dagless]

Still oh-so glad I got a 360 for free. If I paid for one and read this I'd be a bit annoyed myself!

What a load of crap this is. MS have pulled some good moves this gen but the hardware side is justthe biggest fiasco since Betamax and the Minidisc.

[Mackilroy]

Y'know, I've had my console for over a year, and it's never come close to overheating.

Maybe people could also give their consoles room to breathe and they'd be fine. Is that so hard? :p

[seenew]

Okay, this makes four sites I've seen this 'news' on, but none have been reputable. If this story was true, don't you think the big dogs would be all over it? CNN? BBC? MSNBC? Any gaming sites? Don't believe it.

[Markleshark]

Crap... I love my (second ;)) 360. :(

[MacRumorUser]

Okay, this makes four sites I've seen this 'news' on, but none have been reputable. If this story was true, don't you think the big dogs would be all over it? CNN? BBC? MSNBC? Any gaming sites? Don't believe it.

Yeah this seems to be the case. I've been looking on all the big - reputable sites for some evidence and comments on this and have come up empty.

Surely if this was true the internet would be awash with information, and yet here we are, with an unnoficial announcment on a blog site. No reputable sites are carrying this story.

I know this is MacRumors but maybe we should change it to M$Rumors ;):)

[seenew]

Here is some news straight from the horse's mouth. Joystiq interview with Peter Moore.

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/13/engadget-and-joystiq-interview-peter-moore-head-of-xbox/

the last few questions address the failure rate.

[ReanimationLP]

I bet if they went from using aluminum heatsinks to a copper one with closer fins and a heatpipe or two, then some more behind the DVD-ROM drive, it'd be fine.

Copper is much better than aluminum.

[wako]

Copper also costs more than aluminum ;)

[seenew]

Copper also costs more than aluminum ;)

no, it doesn't

[bobber205]

Even if it does, it sure wouldn't have cost them billions. ;)
EDIT:
Wait. It might.
http://www.metalprices.com/

[ReanimationLP]

Copper also costs more than aluminum ;)

But hey, imagine the cost savings down the road of not having to fix these things constantly!

[wako]

no, it doesn't



expected...


If you lived in a third world country and you found copper and sold it, you would be able to feed your family for quite a few days. Of course to you, it isnt expensive because we all live in the comforts of a superpower or western state, but those who unfortunately who arent, who cant even see this forum, begs to differ.


Here is a nice chart for you to see how expensive it really is :) Click Here (http://metalspotprice.com/copper-trends/)

[wako]

EB Games Australia has issued a recall for their Xbox 360s! :eek:


Click Here (http://kotaku.com/gaming/two-weeks/eb-games-australia-issues-total-360-recall-278562.php)


But its not because of the internal hardware. It is actually because of the HDD that came with the system on the Premium packages. So the cores werent recalled. :D

I wonder what was wrong with the HDD that came with it though...

[Maclarny]

Y'know, I've had my console for over a year, and it's never come close to overheating.

Maybe people could also give their consoles room to breathe and they'd be fine. Is that so hard? :p

That's just it, I did everything right. The console has laid down horizontally, away from heat sources on a flat surface. The room was kept cool. It, just, died.

The 3 year warranty extension, though not in name, is, in effect, a de-facto recall. Microsoft is taking a ~1.1 billion pre-tax charge which averages out to about $100 per console out on the market (11.6 million) or roughly the cost to have the console shipped to a repair center and replaced. They know their console will die within 3 years of purchase.

[bobber205]

It's nice to know that Microsoft can not only built crappy software but also hardware! :D

[Dagless]

It's nice to know that Microsoft can not only built crappy software but also hardware! :D

Actually, in this case it's probably quite a good thing. If your 360 breaks MS will send you a new unit. If your Wii breaks or even if your DS has a single dead pixel, Nintendo will ship you a new unit.
It's quite comforting to know this and does make me feel safer as a consumer.
I wish Sony would have such a policy. Can we say faulty PS1/2 laser and PSP dead pixels? :D

[wako]

actually MS sends you a refurb... nothing new about that...

[Dagless]

Bugger. Still, I doubt I'd be able to send my modded 360 if that broke :D

[Killyp]

Interesting that M$ sold a load of shares a month before announcing the defect. At least they had the heart to stop producing units while they obviously new about the defect....

...oh no, wait.

[wako]

Interesting that M$ sold a load of shares a month before announcing the defect. At least they had the heart to stop producing units while they obviously new about the defect....

...oh no, wait.



Tell the story properly...


It is actually a Microsoft public relation person who has been working with the company for 18 years that sold his stock. After being with the company for 18 years, he probably is readying for retirement... thats why...

[XNine]

Actually, in this case it's probably quite a good thing. If your 360 breaks MS will send you a new unit. If your Wii breaks or even if your DS has a single dead pixel, Nintendo will ship you a new unit.
It's quite comforting to know this and does make me feel safer as a consumer.
I wish Sony would have such a policy. Can we say faulty PS1/2 laser and PSP dead pixels? :D

Yeah, I'm on my third 360, but it's been good since March 06. I'm actually thinking about selling it in favor of a PS3, just because most titles will be multi-platform and there isn't anything but the DOA series on the 360 that I care about.

I have a PS and a PS2, still working just fine. Though I'll be turning the PS into an ash tray. I know tons of people who still do. Though I know the lasers were a "large" issue, it evidently isn't so large that a lot of people have their original hardware.

[gloss]

Yeah, I'm on my third 360, but it's been good since March 06. I'm actually thinking about selling it in favor of a PS3, just because most titles will be multi-platform and there isn't anything but the DOA series on the 360 that I care about.

I have a PS and a PS2, still working just fine. Though I'll be turning the PS into an ash tray. I know tons of people who still do. Though I know the lasers were a "large" issue, it evidently isn't so large that a lot of people have their original hardware.

Nice FLCL avatar.

[bobber205]

Nice FLCL avatar.

:D

[2nyRiggz]

Nice FLCL avatar.

Thats a joint right...well it looks like a spilf.




Bless

[gloss]

Thats a joint right...well it looks like a spilf.




Bless

Just a ciggie, as far as I'm aware.

[zero2dash]

actually MS sends you a refurb... nothing new about that...

No they don't; not anymore.

They repair your console and ship it back.

They started doing this a few months ago, and I can attest to this fact because they did indeed ship my original system back after the repair.

[2nyRiggz]

No they don't; not anymore.

They repair your console and ship it back.

They started doing this a few months ago, and I can attest to this fact because they did indeed ship my original system back after the repair.

They didn't do that for me....I got mine 1 month ago and they sent me a refurb...I'm not complaining though because I got one with a quieter HDD.


Bless

[viccles]

I'm convinced mine scratches my CDs if I play a game too much. I nearly lost Viva Pinata because it was full of scratches after playing it for ages. Didn't move the console at all either :mad:

[MacRumorUser]

I'm convinced mine scratches my CDs if I play a game too much. I nearly lost Viva Pinata because it was full of scratches after playing it for ages. Didn't move the console at all either :mad:

I was told tht if you leave a game disk inside the machine when it turns on, the drive spins very fast at startup and that's often when the damage is done to a disc left in the drive.

Don't know whether that's true or not, but since I was told I never leave game discs in the machine.

[Dagless]

Ours destroyed Saints Row, Gears of War and Oblivion (yey!) through scratching. This was on our new Feb 2007 unit too.

[MacRumorUser]

^ none of my disks have ever been scratched in either of my 360's.

Jimmi you say your 360 is modded, are these 'backups' your 360 is playing ?

If so then I have read that a lot of people have killed their 360's laser with cheaply burnt dvd+dl discs. Eventually all they ever get from any disc they put into the machines is an ureadable error.

[Dagless]

Nono, this was before I got my 360. Back on my brothers system. I don't have any "backup" games yet, my brother has all the major 360 games so I just use them.

[ReanimationLP]

Hmm... on another note, 360 Elites seem to be finally stocked (finally).

I checked at my Best Buy before, and pulled up all the inventory for a few different districts, and everyone had it.

[Shotgun OS]

Apparently, EB Games Australia has recalled XBox360's for malfunctions. :rolleyes:

http://kotaku.com/gaming/two-weeks/eb-games-australia-issues-total-360-recall-278562.php
http://digg.com/xbox_360/EB_Games_Australia_Issues_Total_360_Recall

[zero2dash]

IMO from past experience -
the only company that makes flawless trouble free consoles is Nintendo. Their cartridge systems have survived floods + hurricanes. :D

(although bricked Wii's from system updates is now an issue)

Didn't have any problems with my original Xbox but my 360 did RoD around the 11th month. No worries though, it was repaired and shipped back at a $0 out of pocket cost to me. Other than being without the system for a week, I have no problems otherwise.

I also got hit by the faulty lens assembly Ps2 problem on my (near) launch Ps2 system. Initially I was told it would be a $150 repair until I complained to a Sony rep about reading online about this issue and was told "don't believe what you read on the internet, we'll repair it for free since you're a VALUED CUSTOMER". :rolleyes:

So far...no problems on my slim Ps2 though.

If I have a console problem and it's fixed for no charge, I won't complain too much since I have other consoles and other toys to play with. ;)

[Coded-Dude]

Due to faulty DVD drives, not due to the REAL defect in the system.
(apparently they got a bad bunch drives)


and I still believe NES "Dre" was far worse than PS2 "dre"

[2nyRiggz]

(although bricked Wii's from system updates is now an issue)


Thats not the only issue the Wii is having....they also have the tendency to overheat whiles wiiconect24 is on and damage the graphic card giving you some very pixelated images.


Bless

[Dagless]

Due to faulty DVD drives, not due to the REAL defect in the system.
(apparently they got a bad bunch drives)


and I still believe NES "Dre" was far worse than PS2 "dre"

Oh please no, I worked at a PC repair shop for work experience many years ago, and I can tell you the amount of PS2s coming in for replacement lasers was outstanding. Outside of their networking sales the PS2 replacement service was their biggest profit maker. It was nowhere near as bad as PS1 replacements.

Eu PS2s were disgraceful. Every computer and game magazine had full page adverts offering "PS2 and Xbox chips, Xbox HDD upgrades and PS2 lasers".

[Coded-Dude]

That doesn't really compare to the number or NES consoles that wouldn't load a damn game to save someone's life. Power on , Power off, Eject game(blow on cartridge), Re-Insert game, Power on.....rinse and repeat anywhere from 1 to 100 times. Once you fixed the PS2 laser issues it would normally go away for 6 months to a year(if at all). Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to downplay the PS2 issue, as I knwo many who had it - but virtually everyone who ever owned a NES (at least everyone I knew) has had the "dre" issue at least once.

[Dagless]

Mad, perhaps EU strikes again? I've acquired several NES's over the years, each one with stupid amounts of playtime attached. My original NES still functions fine. Now before you do the ol' rolleyes - my GB and GBA have needed the whole 'blowing' thing. Never the NES. I believe our NES carts were different shaped. Version 2 perhaps?

Megadrive or Master System never needed a 'blow' either.

[Coded-Dude]

your saying you've NEVER had to do that with any NES in your entire NES gaming career? :rolleyes:
(sorry I had too)
You must not game very much on the NES or are very lucky my friend. ;) :p

[Dagless]

None of my local friends had that problem either. Like I said - the GB was terrible for it. I have to do it to every one of my classic GB games now.

And, is it just me or have GB carts degraded? Some of my games now have messed up graphics and audio, they're only subtle and the game still works. Like the cart has become corrupted or something. My bundled Super Mario Bros/Duck Hunt, despite being the oldest cart I own doesn't have any problems like that :confused:

I don't want to lose my GB games :(

[coffey7]

I have used mine since 4 months after launch and have had zero problems. I remember back in the day with the ps2, when at the game stores we would joke that you needed to buy 2 of those because when one was in the shop you would have a spare.

[wako]

we would joke that you needed to buy 2 of those because when one was in the shop you would have a spare.




Quite honestly I never understood that because I bought it during launch and it NEVER broke on me. If I didnt drop from the stand last year it more than likely would still be working.