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obeygiant
Jul 14, 2007, 10:44 PM
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/7908/410wbz7.jpg

By Associated Press | July 14, 2007
ROME -- Paralympic runner Oscar Pistorius warmed up for his debut in a world-class able-bodied race by finishing second in an invitational 400-meter race at the Golden Gala meet yesterday.
Pistorius charged from behind in the final straight to finish in 46.90 seconds, well off his personal best of 46.56. A double-amputee below his knees, Pistorius races on carbon fiber prostheses that resemble blades. Stefano Braciola of Italy won in 46.7.
"I am not very happy about my time, but it's still nice to be out on the track," Pistorius said. "These past three weeks have been very tiring so I guess my time was to be expected."
Pistorius, 20, has been under an intense media spotlight since he was given permission to race in able-bodied races by the International Association of Athletics Federations last month.
Tomorrow, Pistorius will run the top-tier 400 at the Norwich Union Grand Prix in Sheffield, England, in a field that includes Olympic champ Jeremy Wariner.boston globe (http://www.boston.com/sports/other_sports/running/articles/2007/07/14/pistorius_second_in_warmup/)

The 400m is a difficult race. Too long for a full sprint, too short for a long distance. 46.56 is excellent. The prothetics may or may not be an advantage.

Abstract
Jul 14, 2007, 10:55 PM
Wow, that is amazing.

I can't do the 400 m, so I do have a lot of respect for him. I can do the 100 m, though, although he'd probably beat me at that, too. :o

Jasonbot
Jul 15, 2007, 02:44 AM
This guys from South Africa, woo! I've seen him sprint before. I've also seen him @ the dentist once :p

Abstract
Jul 15, 2007, 03:05 AM
Being a potential Olympian and one of the fastest 400 m runners on Earth, this man should certainly not be eligible for handicap parking spots.

BoyBach
Jul 15, 2007, 05:56 AM
I can remember reading an interview with Dame Tanni Grey-Thompson after she retired from competition about this. The gist of it was that it's absurd that a 'disability' could rule him (Pistorius) out of the Olympics because it gives him an unfair competitive advantage.

The news came as no great surprise to Tanni Grey-Thompson, the multiple Paralympic champion who retired earlier this year and who retains a hard-boiled attitude to the political manoeuvrings she has spent a sporting lifetime observing.

"I have been expecting him to be banned," she said. "When he was running less quickly it was all quite jolly, but as soon as he started running fast times, that's it. I think this has provoked a debate about what it is to be disabled, and what it is to be able bodied.

"I think there's an argument both ways. People will say that he can pick the length and style of his prosthetics, so maybe that gives him an unfair advantage. I think it's probably more of a disadvantage to be running with two lower limbs missing. But others will say if he can be racing against able-bodied runners on two false legs, good luck to him. Oscar is a stunning talent. He is as far ahead of his Paralympic rivals as Michael Johnson was over his Olympic 400m competitors 10 years ago. He has been given a glimpse of inclusion but now it looks like being taken away from him.

"The authorities probably shouldn't have let him compete against able-bodied athletes in the first place. They've given him a chance to get out of the ghetto but they are going to throw him back in again."

Blade Runner: One man's amazing race to take part in the Olympics - The Independent (http://sport.independent.co.uk/olympics/article2377707.ece)

Jasonbot
Jul 15, 2007, 06:49 AM
I was reading in the local newpapers that there were also issues of lactic acid seeing as Oscar has no calves he cannot get lactic acid build up or whatever in his calves and therefore will have an unfair advantage over competitors. His defense was that seeing as his calves do not carry lactic acid there must be another part of his body that does, this being his back, and therefore he is not at a serious advantage vs. other competitors.

Scottcop
Jul 15, 2007, 08:12 AM
I was reading in the local newpapers that there were also issues of lactic acid seeing as Oscar has no calves he cannot get lactic acid build up or whatever in his calves and therefore will have an unfair advantage over competitors. His defense was that seeing as his calves do not carry lactic acid there must be another part of his body that does, this being his back, and therefore he is not at a serious advantage vs. other competitors.

Other full legged athletes have the same issues, plus the issues of calves, achilles, knees etc. I'm sure he has his own other issues, but he has bypassed quite a few common ones

His prosthetics have replaced his calves, which may or may not be better at being legs than legs themselves.
I'm sure I read somewhere that humans are not entirely built that well for exercise. His single pieces of metal seem much better designed that the complex array of tendons, muscles, bones that others have.

dmw007
Jul 15, 2007, 10:58 AM
Wow, I admire this guys determination and dedication to his sport. :)

runplaysleeprun
Jul 16, 2007, 11:34 AM
Wow, much respect for that guy. I suppose I would lean towards the "let him compete" side of the fence. BTW, personal best of 50.2

OnceUGoMac
Jul 16, 2007, 11:40 AM
Didn't he already get disqualified?

Jaffa Cake
Jul 16, 2007, 11:41 AM
I saw him race yesterday, he finished last by some distance. The commentator suggested that the weather might have hindered him the track was very wet so he was having trouble with his grip and traction it seems.

Scottcop
Jul 16, 2007, 01:48 PM
I'm sure he was disqualified for crossing lanes.

Jaffa Cake
Jul 16, 2007, 02:15 PM
I'm sure he was disqualified for crossing lanes.The commentator also mentioned that he had a suspicion that one of his prosthetics might have crossed into a neighbouring lane but wasn't certain. We turned over before a decision was made so I can't confirm this, though.

Earendil
Jul 17, 2007, 01:52 PM
I saw this on the news the other day.
And I really do want to root for him and say he should compete in the "able bodied" olympics, but...

I don't think he should.
First off, I realized the only reason I originally thought he should is because I thought that he was "rising" to the level of those with legs. That he was pulling himself out of the "gutter" as the auther so put it, and trying to complete with "real" athletes. That's utter BS.

The problem I see is this: Inevitably prosthetic legs with undeniably be faster than human legs, at least when designed for a particular race. So why include then in a race now?

The only way I can agree with this is if he was allowed, through money or privilege, some prosthetic that other disabled athletes did not have access to, and thus were getting creamed by this guy in races. But then my motivation for wanting him to compete against those with legs would be so the other disabled athletes had a fighting chance.

I hope no one thinks me inconsiderate. I can try and explain my view better if need be...
Perhaps there are some facets here I'm not understanding.

And the 400m IS a sprint, btw. Those runners don't change their pace, unless they are speeding up. In highschool they slow down, but that's the reason a guy at ours killed everyone else, he started off the blocks in a full fledged sprint...and ended the race even faster. He now takes top marks at Western Washington Uni :)

obeygiant
Jan 14, 2008, 08:54 AM
A little update:

BRUSSELS, Belgium — The IAAF ruled Monday that double-amputee sprinter Oscar Pistorius is ineligible to compete in the Beijing Olympics because his prosthetic racing legs give him a clear competitive advantage.

The International Association of Athletics Federations had twice postponed the ruling, but the executive Council said the South African runner's curved, prosthetic "Cheetah" blades were considered a technical aid in violation of the rules.

"As a result, Oscar Pistorius is ineligible to compete in competitions organized under IAAF rules," the IAAF said in a statement from Monte Carlo, Monaco.

Pistorius, known as the "blade runner," announced last week that he planned to appeal any adverse decision, including taking the case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport in Lausanne, Switzerland.

"The natural feeling from our side would be to appeal the verdict and see what avenues we can take forward," the runner's agent, Peet van Zyl, told the BBC after Monday's verdict. "Oscar wants to prove that he isn't getting an advantage."

The decision was reached in an e-mail vote by the 27-member IAAF Council. The vote count was not disclosed but believed to be unanimous.Fox (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,322486,00.html)

Well he won't be able to compete. Those amputees just cant get a break sometimes. :)

topgunn
Jan 14, 2008, 09:28 AM
A little update:

Fox (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,322486,00.html)

Well he won't be able to compete. Those amputees just cant get a break sometimes. :)
All in all, I believe that this was the right call. While it is questioned whether these blades give him a mechanical advantage or not, I think the situation is a slippery slope that the IAAF did not want to start down.

Abstract
Jan 14, 2008, 09:53 AM
I agree with not letting him compete as well. Whether he has an advantage, or even a disadvantage....the fact of the matter is that we want things to be as equal as possible, and for running, having 2 legs and no performance-enhancing drugs in your body seems to be the things you must have to compete. We can't really prove that he doesn't have an advantage, but I don't think we need to.

Evangelion
Jan 14, 2008, 10:25 AM
""I think there's an argument both ways. People will say that he can pick the length and style of his prosthetics, so maybe that gives him an unfair advantage. I think it's probably more of a disadvantage to be running with two lower limbs missing.#

By same logic: "of course he should be allowed to run in the regural olympics while using anabolic steroids, since having lower halves of his legs missing gives him more of an disadvantage".

Yes, the guy is disabled. Does that mean that if he wants to compete against non-disabled, he should be allowed to use technology to gain benefit that the other contestants do not have? No.

adk
Jan 15, 2008, 03:34 PM
Sort of off topic, but does he start off of normal blocks like any other able bodied sprinter?

Counterfit
Jan 15, 2008, 11:35 PM
I would presume he does.

crazy legs
Jan 23, 2008, 02:44 AM
Wow I find it amazing :)

takao
Jan 23, 2008, 04:59 AM
i saw a report on TV about it a few days ago where they explained (backed by simulations/studies from some german university) how his prostheses have a much higher ratio of "power put in - power coming out" and thus work more like a spring...
i think the numbers were around 80% of power gained back for the artifical leg and 45% for leg of a top athlete (and much less for a normal person)
so a normal athlete has to waste a lot more energy on getting the same forward thrust

seems like quite a significant advantage

samh004
Jan 23, 2008, 05:16 AM
I think it's quite sad that people are claiming he has an unfair advantage in the Olympics and he should only be allowed at the special Olympics, as if his prosthesis gave him an advantage in the "regular" Olympics then surely no one at the special Olympics should be able to use it either, thus making the whole thing invalid.

obeygiant
Jan 23, 2008, 10:23 PM
I think it's quite sad that people are claiming he has an unfair advantage in the Olympics and he should only be allowed at the special Olympics, as if his prosthesis gave him an advantage in the "regular" Olympics then surely no one at the special Olympics should be able to use it either, thus making the whole thing invalid.

Well I think the "special" olympics is only for the mentally handicapped isn't it?

Counterfit
Jan 24, 2008, 01:49 AM
Well I think the "special" olympics is only for the mentally handicapped isn't it?

Right, he'd be participating in the Paralympics (ParaOlympics?), which takes place in the same venues a week or two after the Olympics.

samh004
Jan 24, 2008, 01:55 AM
Well I think the "special" olympics is only for the mentally handicapped isn't it?

Right, he'd be participating in the Paralympics (ParaOlympics?), which takes place in the same venues a week or two after the Olympics.

You know what I meant, I always get them mixed up. I have the view that all Olympics should happen at the same time. Separating them doesn't help bring awareness as most people forget they're even on. It brings in additional ad revenue though :rolleyes:

obeygiant
May 16, 2008, 08:17 PM
LAUSANNE, Switzerland Double-amputee sprinter Oscar Pistorius won his appeal Friday and can compete for a place in the Beijing Olympics.

The Court of Arbitration for Sport ruled that the 21-year-old South African is eligible to race against able-bodied athletes, overturning a ban imposed by the International Association of Athletics Federations.

CAS said the unanimous ruling goes into effect immediately.

Pistorius was born without fibulas the long, thin outer bone between the knee and ankle and was 11 months old when his legs were amputated below the knee.

"I am ecstatic," Pistorius told reporters in Milan, Italy. "When I found out, I cried. It is a battle that has been going on for far too long. It's a great day for sport. I think this day is going to go down in history for the equality of disabled people."

Pistorius still must reach a qualifying time to run in the individual 400 meters at the Aug. 8-24 Beijing Games. However, he can be picked for the South African relay squad without qualifying. That relay squad has not yet qualified for the Olympics.Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356290,00.html)

Looks like he's got the go ahead to compete.

Abstract
May 16, 2008, 09:11 PM
This decision is so wrong.

MacNut
May 16, 2008, 09:38 PM
This decision is so wrong.Why? it's not like he's a cyborg.

LeahM
May 16, 2008, 09:55 PM
I think this is awesome. But I am biased because I have someone in my family who has a prothesis. It might be an advantage but its great for the young kids to understand that even though you have a prothesis, you can do anything anyone else can.

On the other hand, if people are saying he has an advantage, then there should also be rules about taking allergy medicine or pain medication, even cough syrup because that also effects your performance.

Abstract
May 16, 2008, 11:27 PM
^^^Yes, it does sound like you're biased. ;)

Why? it's not like he's a cyborg.

It's still not comparing apples to apples. Having a screw placed in a leg is one thing. Having an entirely unnatural limb is another, and the competition will be seen as unfair in some manner. While nobody seems to be able to truly determine whether this person gains an advantage by having this particular prosthetic limb, the fact that it's entirely different from what everyone else has, with a different reaction to ground-impact, flex, etc, makes it too different to compare it to the other athletes.

obeygiant
May 16, 2008, 11:44 PM
He may have an advantage. In place of where two legged runners have a calf muscle that can fatigue he has a springy prothesis which doesn't fatigue.

iJohnHenry
May 17, 2008, 07:59 AM
And, let us not forget, lowered wind resistance. :D

Counterfit
May 17, 2008, 12:44 PM
He may have an advantage. In place of where two legged runners have a calf muscle that can fatigue he has a springy prothesis which doesn't fatigue.

Well, carbon fiber can fatigue, just not in the way a muscle does. It doesn't cramp up though. ;)
And, let us not forget, lowered wind resistance. :D

I'm not so sure on that. It's basically flat in profile. Really lightweight though.

iSamurai
May 17, 2008, 02:10 PM
like he said on an interview, carbon fibre is passive material, as it doesn't improve performance...

I really want to see him in the olympics. people here (south africa) are really happy for him to compete with able-bodied athletes :) wish him the best of luck.

iJohnHenry
May 17, 2008, 04:26 PM
like he said on an interview, carbon fibre is passive material, as it doesn't improve performance...

If it gives, and returns back to it's original shape, then it stores kinetic energy.

Make it rigid and I will agree.

Otherwise, no.

evilgEEk
May 18, 2008, 11:27 PM
I think it's incredible that this man has not let his "disability" get in the way of his dreams.

But still, the extra "spring" in his step is an unfair advantage.

GermanyChris
Feb 16, 2013, 06:17 AM
how things change in just a few years

adder7712
Feb 16, 2013, 09:03 AM
how things change in just a few years

Ditto.

Doctor Q
Feb 20, 2013, 10:14 PM
News story (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/19/oscar-pistorius-murder-accident_n_2720261.html): Oscar Pistorius is accused of shooting and killing his girlfriend after an argument.

He was denied bail (http://cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2013/02/20/exp-erin-conflicting-accounts-in-oscar-pistorius-case.cnn.html), which is a bit ironic - a man without lower legs found to be a flight risk. But I can see why they ruled that way.

Ballistics tests will be crucial to the prosecution's case, because they will supposedly show the angle of the shots he admits firing, which in turn will show whether or not he took the time to put on his prosthetic feet before the shooting, i.e., pre-meditation.

Aspasia
Feb 21, 2013, 10:16 AM
He was denied bail (http://cnn.com/video/data/2.0/video/bestoftv/2013/02/20/exp-erin-conflicting-accounts-in-oscar-pistorius-case.cnn.html), which is a bit ironic - a man without lower legs found to be a flight risk. But I can see why they ruled that way.

Ballistics tests will be crucial to the prosecution's case, because they will supposedly show the angle of the shots he admits firing, which in turn will show whether or not he took the time to put on his prosthetic feet before the shooting, i.e., pre-meditation.

Denied bail? CNN - the confused "news" network - does it again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/21/oscar-pistorius-case-lead-detective-removed

Doctor Q
Feb 21, 2013, 11:16 AM
Interesting parallels with the Claudine Longet - Spider Sabich case (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudine_Longet#Arrest_and_trial). A shooting at home involving an olympic athlete. Questions about whether their relationship had soured or it was just an accident. And bungled actions by the prosecution.

Maybe the Rolling Stones will write a song about Oscar as they did for Claudine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8IOKKG_PAQ) (see lyrics (http://www.metrolyrics.com/claudine-lyrics-rolling-stones.html) for longer version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHJp37a_loA)). And perhaps there will be a tasteless Saturday Night Live skit (http://snltranscripts.jt.org/75/75rski.phtml) too.

TyPod
Feb 23, 2013, 04:10 PM
Interested to see how the trial ends!

Doctor Q
Mar 5, 2014, 01:05 PM
Interested to see how the trial ends!
We should know in a few weeks. The trial has now begun (http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/05/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial-third-day/), with witnesses to the sounds testifying.

The prosecution claimed last year that Pistorius was wearing his prosthetic legs while firing. The defense claims he was not. Wouldn't ballistics evidence have settled that question already?

question fear
Mar 6, 2014, 09:36 AM
We should know in a few weeks. The trial has now begun (http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/05/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial-third-day/), with witnesses to the sounds testifying.

The prosecution claimed last year that Pistorius was wearing his prosthetic legs while firing. The defense claims he was not. Wouldn't ballistics evidence have settled that question already?

I thought I heard somewhere they determined he did not have his prosthetics, but the girlfriend had two cell phones in the bathroom with her (implying she was hiding from him).

iJohnHenry
Mar 8, 2014, 10:58 AM
I might be tempted to shoot out through a bathroom door at an intruder, but into one?

Why??

They are contained.

Doctor Q
Mar 8, 2014, 11:08 AM
I might be tempted to shoot out through a bathroom door at an intruder, but into one?

Why??
I'm stumped.

And maybe so was Pistorius.

(OK, I know, bad joke in the face of a serious issue, but if you're going to feed me a straight line like that then you have to expect these things.)

iJohnHenry
Mar 8, 2014, 03:56 PM
I'm stumped.

Well quipped, but I'm not stumped. ;)

The bastard is as guilty as sin.