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boss1
Jul 19, 2007, 01:20 PM
I've been nay saying the possibility of a 2nd iPhone on the boards with every rumor report.

This is still by far a confirmation but JP Morgan might want to rethink their decision to fire that Analyst soon :D

There are just too many unassociated sources pointing to the same rumor at this point .... IMO iPhone 2 is coming soon....


Sources: Apple set to grow iPhone family pre-holidays (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/07/19/sources_apple_set_to_grow_iphone_family_pre_holidays.html)



AbsenceOfTruth
Jul 19, 2007, 01:22 PM
iPhone 2.... are you sure? More like iPhone Nano... that's most likely.

keithos27
Jul 19, 2007, 01:23 PM
seems like a rather quick canibalization play, but stranger things have happened...

boss1
Jul 19, 2007, 01:24 PM
iPhone 2.... are you sure? More like iPhone Nano... that's most likely.

That's what i meant . Nano. Fixed the headline.

AbsenceOfTruth
Jul 19, 2007, 01:25 PM
Then it shouldn't be called iPhone 2... I don't want to think that they are replacing my iPhone too soon. :p

*edit - saw the headline, gotcha. ;)

boss1
Jul 19, 2007, 01:47 PM
Lol this is my favorite part of the article:
The move is believed to be part of a broader, all-out blitz on the consumer electronics sector this holiday shopping season, in which a staggering array of gadgets from the Cupertino-based firm is expected to leave would-be rivals confused and unable to react.

On a side note i'm under the impression, judging by the comments by the writers in CNETS iPhone reporting over the past few months, that they are utterly sick of all the iPhone rumors and iDay was a sigh of relief for them.

However if this iPhone nano story starts building momentum and rumors start to turn to fact..... It's going to be a loooooong year for CNET :D.

retrospects
Jul 19, 2007, 01:49 PM
iphone nano = less stuff. prob 1g. half the price. wammy!

vansouza
Jul 19, 2007, 01:51 PM
and half the performance... or even less.

ChandlerXJ
Jul 19, 2007, 01:52 PM
i wonder if you would be able to get one and use it in conjunction with your i phone - i would love to bring a tiny reciever running or to the gym, but still have it "connected" with my main phone, that would be cool.

Kamera RAWr
Jul 19, 2007, 01:54 PM
Come on, why an iPhone Nano? The iPhone is already a pretty resonable size. Its not THAT large. :confused:

dr_lha
Jul 19, 2007, 02:01 PM
Come on, why an iPhone Nano? The iPhone is already a pretty resonable size. Its not THAT large. :confused:
People said that about the iPod, and then about the iPod Mini. If apple could make an easy to use smaller phone (the iPhone ain't that small, its larger than my previous cell phone) that would be a big seller. Obviously it would have to drop a lot of the core functionality of the iPhone, however that's pretty much what an iPod nano is compared to a regular 5.5G iPod.

vinhmen
Jul 19, 2007, 02:05 PM
"the second iteration of the handset is presumed to marry iPod functionality with rudimentary cellular capabilities. More resource-heavy Internet browsing and e-mail capabilities are not expected of the device."

No internet nor email? Not interested.

plumbingandtech
Jul 19, 2007, 02:06 PM
seems like a rather quick canibalization play, but stranger things have happened...

Different markets.

ChandlerXJ
Jul 19, 2007, 02:07 PM
by smaller i meant "I' not afraid to drop it/step on it/ get it wet/ scrape it/ abuse it"

I don't baby my shuffle, but I sure as hell babied my video iPod. It would just be easier for me to live my life if i had a "satellite" component

plumbingandtech
Jul 19, 2007, 02:07 PM
Lol this is my favorite part of the article:


On a side note i'm under the impression, judging by the comments by the writers in CNETS iPhone reporting over the past few months, that they are utterly sick of all the iPhone rumors and iDay was a sigh of relief for them.

However if this iPhone nano story starts building momentum and rumors start to turn to fact..... It's going to be a loooooong year for CNET :D.

That WAS the best part. Here's hoping.

netdog
Jul 19, 2007, 02:10 PM
iphone nano = less stuff. prob 1g. half the price. wammy!

1G. Oh yeah. That would sell...for about $19.

Nano-sized phone that works perfectly with OS X and iTunes. Sounds awesome to me.

plumbingandtech
Jul 19, 2007, 02:11 PM
$million dollar question.

How big will the screen be?


very small = click wheel still in there?

small /medium = virtual iphone like controls?

plumbingandtech
Jul 19, 2007, 02:12 PM
Insert pic of Verizon execs kicking themselves here....

Chocolate phone you say?

Dead meat I say. (if rumor = true.)

rockstarjoe
Jul 19, 2007, 02:55 PM
$million dollar question.

How big will the screen be?


very small = click wheel still in there?

small /medium = virtual iphone like controls?

I have a feeling the clickwheel will not be added to any iPhone family product. In fact, we might not see it on any new iPods, either. Apple has a lot invested in Multitouch. More than they have revealed so far, I think. ;)

MacRumors
Jul 19, 2007, 03:02 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Following a contested JP Morgan analyst report (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/09/cheaper-iphone-nano/) that a cheaper iPhone "Nano" was in the works, AppleInsider says that such a possibility may indeed be in the cards (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/07/19/sources_apple_set_to_grow_iphone_family_pre_holidays.html), with a release perhaps by the 2007 holiday season.

Citing their own "extremely reputable" sources, AppleInsider claims that development of the second iPhone model was practically concurrent with the first iPhone, with it emerging from engineering labs just as the first iPhone was heading to production.

The second model may indeed fit a "Nano" moniker, as it is said to hold a smaller form factor and simply marry iPod functionality with basic cellular functionality.

Interestingly, it would appear that Apple will stick with its venerable click-wheel interface (perhaps due to the model's size), a proposition that CEO Steve Jobs had mocked when initially introducing the iPhone at Macworld in January. To dial, AppleInsider suggests Apple will use a rotary-dial click wheel patent (http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/07/05/click.wheel.dialing.patent/) that Apple recently applied for (via MacNN).

While pricing details are not yet known, the site expects the phone to be much cheaper than the current iteration, but still more expensive than the iPod Nano to resist cannibalization of sales.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/19/iphone-nano-for-real/)

drj434343
Jul 19, 2007, 03:04 PM
Sound like a good lineup to me.

trudd
Jul 19, 2007, 03:06 PM
I think it could be a hit so long as texting was still rather easy. Not sure how that would be possible without a touch screen?

kskill
Jul 19, 2007, 03:07 PM
This thing is gonig to be ridiculously successful.
But where will the keypad go?

wrldwzrd89
Jul 19, 2007, 03:08 PM
I think it could be a hit so long as texting was still rather easy. Not sure how that would be possible without a touch screen?
The click wheel works as a keyboard input device, if you make an on-screen letter wheel and manipulate it by spinning the click wheel with your finger then pushing the center button to input a letter. It's different but it works just fine once you get used to it.

That's what I'd do if I was Apple...

ready2switch
Jul 19, 2007, 03:08 PM
Rotary dialing? As cool as this may be for the first hour, I don't think it's a good step. Doesn't anyone remember what a pain rotary dialing was?

MoparShaha
Jul 19, 2007, 03:10 PM
The click wheel works as a keyboard input device, if you make an on-screen letter wheel and manipulate it by spinning the click wheel with your finger then pushing the center button to input a letter. It's different but it works just fine once you get used to it.

That's what I'd do if I was Apple...

I think this would make texting incredibly difficult and inefficient.

NewSc2
Jul 19, 2007, 03:11 PM
I think this would make texting incredibly difficult and inefficient.

Yes, very, very difficult.

johnmcboston
Jul 19, 2007, 03:11 PM
The rotary phone makes a comeback. Will it make that clicking sound when I dial? :)

p0intblank
Jul 19, 2007, 03:11 PM
While I see the iPhone nano eventually becoming a reality... I just don't see it being released this year.

lamar777
Jul 19, 2007, 03:12 PM
Would it be accurate to assume that a new form factor phone would have to go through similar FCC approval as the original iPhone? and if so is there any way to check what has been submitted? I imagine that the process would have to begin very very soon for a new phone to be available by the holidays. If this is the case it may be likely that the new model would be announced at MacWorld in a similar fashion as the original...

wrldwzrd89
Jul 19, 2007, 03:12 PM
I think this would make texting incredibly difficult and inefficient.
Fair enough - it isn't the best of input methods. Then again, I've never texted before, so take my opinion with a grain of salt :p

longofest
Jul 19, 2007, 03:12 PM
I think it could be a hit so long as texting was still rather easy. Not sure how that would be possible without a touch screen?

note: "basic" cellular capabilities. Do we count texting as part of basic cellular capabilities? When I read "basic", I was thinking the ability to make and receive calls, voicemail, etc. From what this sounds like, they may not even include EDGE.

I think it would definitely serve a purpose. But in order to get fancy, you'd have to step up to full iPhone.

Keep in mind that the current iPod Nano is a pretty limited device as well, in that it can't play movies or play games that the 5G can do.

BornAgainMac
Jul 19, 2007, 03:13 PM
Nano phone could use flip out keyboard mentioned from other rumors last year. I remember someone that saw it quoted it was "...as small as s...".

motulist
Jul 19, 2007, 03:14 PM
There's no way they'd do a rotary dialing emulation, that'd be a huge pain and the people at Apple are not idiots when it comes to interfaces. I'm sure if they release a phone with only a click wheel interface that the dialing system will be at least somewhat elegant.

Caitlyn
Jul 19, 2007, 03:15 PM
I think Apple needs to stop focusing on trying to publicize the iPhone and start working on updating it's long overdue products. Seriously, like Apple isn't a cell phone company. They make computers and music players. Sorry, it just bugs me about the iPhone because that's the only thing you hear about today. Apple is losing its touch.

Nepenthe
Jul 19, 2007, 03:16 PM
To quote the Macworld '06 Keynote:

12:48 PM - "Hi, I'm Steve and welcome to my weekly podcast, Super-Secret Apple Rumors." (huge laughs) "I've got some pretty good sources inside Apple, and the next iPod is going to be HUGE, an 8-pounder with a 10-inch screen ... See you next week."

PlaceofDis
Jul 19, 2007, 03:17 PM
interesting. be cool if they do it. just not sure how texting would work.

metanoia
Jul 19, 2007, 03:17 PM
The only reason I don't want this to come to fruition is it would take attention away from MY iPhone, and RAZR-ize the iPhone...

~Selfish in SF

motulist
Jul 19, 2007, 03:18 PM
Here's a wild idea, what if it used a voice recognition interface! Voice recognition quality across different companies ranges from terrible to near perfect. I'm sure if it only had to be able to recognize the sound of spoken numbers and individual spoken letters then the recognition could get to near 100% accuracy even in noisy environments.

It's just a wild stab in the dark, but I think it'd work really well and would be reasonably easy to implement technologically.

EDIT: Of course a lot of the times that people use texting is when they can't be speaking, like in meetings and whatnot, so maybe it's not such a great idea after all.

speedbumpnv
Jul 19, 2007, 03:21 PM
The Nokia 3600 series had numbered buttons in a circle like a rotary dial. It sucked.
The Nokia 7280 was totally controlled with a small wheel with a single button much like the iPod. It was way cool, but hard to use.

There will need to be a keypad of some sort. Dialing with the wheel would prolly be fine, especially with a contact list as it would be just like your playlists. However, I would have to think that data entry for new contacts or text messaging would be very difficult with out at least a traditional phone keypad.

thuff13
Jul 19, 2007, 03:22 PM
note: "basic" cellular capabilities. Do we count texting as part of basic cellular capabilities? When I read "basic", I was thinking the ability to make and receive calls, voicemail, etc. From what this sounds like, they may not even include EDGE.

I think it would definitely serve a purpose. But in order to get fancy, you'd have to step up to full iPhone.

Keep in mind that the current iPod Nano is a pretty limited device as well, in that it can't play movies or play games that the 5G can do.

I think it would have to include texting to be successful. The target group for an iPhone Nano would probably be high school and college students that can't afford and iPhone. That is also probably the group that texts the most.

I think the click wheel would work fine. Not for rotary dialing, but with different segments of the wheel representing numbers that could just be tapped to dial. This would also work well with a recent patent that talked about visual feedback from touchpads which also included how it could work for a cilck wheel. The click wheel could display numbers when dialing or it could display letters when texting. I realize that the letters would have to be small to fit, but you could press and drag if you don't get the right letter and then release when on the right letter. I think the would be faster than texting on a regular number pad where you have to push a button up to three times (actually four for S or Z).

guitarplizayer
Jul 19, 2007, 03:22 PM
The Rotary Dialing would be one of those things that are "ohh Sweet!" for about a week then it would be "ok can this go any faster!" But then again it is apple and I'm sure if the iphone nano is coming then it will be with style:cool:

badtzmaru
Jul 19, 2007, 03:24 PM
an iphone nano would be a great gift for the late teens/college students in my family! lets see if they are naughty or nice from now until december.

guitarplizayer
Jul 19, 2007, 03:27 PM
I think the would be faster than texting on a regular number pad where you have to push a button up to three times (actually four for S or Z).

Well thats if you use the "abc" the T9 IMO is much faster, although I know people who use "abc" and they are fast too.

Perhape they will have it like some PDA's and you can write the letters out with your fingers.... that would still be slower than T9, BUT thats another option maybe... haha:D

jdechko
Jul 19, 2007, 03:29 PM
I think Apple needs to stop focusing on trying to publicize the iPhone and start working on updating it's long overdue products. Seriously, like Apple isn't a cell phone company. They make computers and music players. Sorry, it just bugs me about the iPhone because that's the only thing you hear about today. Apple is losing its touch.

Oh, Come on. Clearly Apple is transitioning away from being a computer manufacturer to being a consumer electronics manufacturer who happens to provide some very good, very elegant software.

Case in point is the name change from Apple Computer, Inc. to Apple, Inc. It's not that they want to get out of the computer industry altogether, don't get me wrong. But I think Apple sees the fragmented state of the CE market and is working hard on integrating and streamlining the process to a point where all of the electronic devices in a home, though not necessarily Apple-branded products, are interconnected, hopefully using some Apple technology.

Look how far we've come since 2001 when Apple started to branch out with the iPod. That was HUGE. Now, we can access many areas of our digital life -movies, music, email, documents, TV- regardless of where we might be. Sure, these technologies aren't all Apple innovations, but Apple sees a way to make the experience better. And future Apple technologies/improvements are going to take us deeper into the integration.

For instance if iPhone is integrated with BackToMac, it would be superb; you'd never "forget" anything. Just pull up your home PC on iPhone, find the document you want and print it via bluetooth.

On the original topic, however, I'm not so sure that this method is the "best" way to do input on iPhone nano. And where's the usual disclaimer about patents; that they may or may not end up in future Apple products. It may be too early, but I think Apple has a winner with the multi-touch interface, and I don't see them backing out into a (perceived to be) inferior method. Remember the mini had the much better click-wheel first, but the iPod rapidly received it.

rockstarjoe
Jul 19, 2007, 03:30 PM
Interestingly, it would appear that Apple will stick with its venerable click-wheel interface (perhaps due to the model's size), a proposition that CEO Steve Jobs had mocked when initially introducing the iPhone at Macworld in January. To dial, AppleInsider suggests Apple will use a rotary-dial click wheel patent (http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/07/05/click.wheel.dialing.patent/) that Apple recently applied for (via MacNN).



I can almost guarantee that this iPhone Nano will not have a clickwheel. As I stated in another thread, the clickwheel is not meant for the iPhone family. It will be multi-touch. It only makes sense. Apple has a lot riding on this multitouch technology.

It will most likely not have wifi or edge. Thus, no widgets, mail, or safari. Smaller battery (which will be ok because of lack of internet stuff) and less memory (maybe 2GB? 4GB?). Texting will be there, of course (probably via landscape keyboard like safari on iPhone).

I don't know any of this for a fact, but I think it is all very logical. And, if you remember, there were rumors that Apple was working on a second iPhone right after the original iPhone was announced (maybe even before it was announced).

Thataboy
Jul 19, 2007, 03:34 PM
I think Apple needs to stop focusing on trying to publicize the iPhone and start working on updating it's long overdue products. Seriously, like Apple isn't a cell phone company. They make computers and music players. Sorry, it just bugs me about the iPhone because that's the only thing you hear about today. Apple is losing its touch.

I think you need to stop focusing on what Apple USED to be. Jobs has said himself that Apple has 3 core businesses: Computers, Music, and Phones. It's not a computer company that does other things on the side. The only thing it does on the side is Apple TV, and I think in a couple years that will be matured into the 4th core business.

hohlecow
Jul 19, 2007, 03:35 PM
are you guys serious about dialing?

i have dialed 1 of the past 60 calls in my call log. Address Book syncing FTW!

citi
Jul 19, 2007, 03:36 PM
The Rotary Dialing would be one of those things that are "ohh Sweet!" for about a week then it would be "ok can this go any faster!" But then again it is apple and I'm sure if the iphone nano is coming then it will be with style:cool:

We all look at the word "click wheel" and we think the way its used today, but remember this macrumor a couple of days ago?

Apple Developing Backlit Trackpad?
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/07/16/illuminatedScrollWheel_300.gif

maybe this patent is being used in the iphone nano? It has the rotary display but is sensitive to touch. You just press the numbers around the click wheel. The light feedback can be used as a guide to know where you are pressing.

Just a thought.

whatever
Jul 19, 2007, 03:38 PM
I also hear that Apple is going to make a Shuffle version of the iPhone too.

It's really cool. When you feel like making a call, it shuffles through all of your contacts and calls someone.

There will be no iPhone Nano. This is one of the dumbest rumors of all time.

The whole deal with the iPhone are all of the features which are not on other Smart Phones. Strip those features away and you have a regular phone.

Object-X
Jul 19, 2007, 03:39 PM
While I see the iPhone nano eventually becoming a reality... I just don't see it being released this year.

I would normally agree with you, but I think the iPhone is different. First, cell phones are already established and accepted in the collective digital conscious. The cell phone market is massive. As successful as the iPhone will be, it is too expensive and too big for a large segment of the phone buying population. Apple could easily introduce a different form factor and feature set that targets a different segment of the market without sacrificing sales of their existing product.

By introducing a complete set of phones quickly, they can more effectively compete with more established players. Apple is a newbie to this game. Each of the major cell phone makers has a complete line of phones that target different aspects of the market. Apple has to be able to offer the same and soon. They can not afford to timidly wade into this cut throat business if they want this to be a major part of their business.

Apple needs to keep the momentum going. iPhone mania will die off soon, so by introducing a new type of phone they can capitalize on all the publicity they are getting.

Apple wants to be a leader, an innovator. The cell phone industry changes very quickly. Apple will have to move even quicker if they want to lead in this space.

guitarplizayer
Jul 19, 2007, 03:39 PM
Apple has a lot riding on this multitouch technology.


Yeah, I agree with you joe if you really do think about it, with the multi touch apple can just make the rotary dial pop up like the keyboard and then it can disappear when not being used. That would make more sense. Going back to the click wheel is very unlikely. If apple wanted they could of put a rotary dialer in the current iPhone as a preference.:rolleyes:

gkarris
Jul 19, 2007, 03:39 PM
Rotary dialing? As cool as this may be for the first hour, I don't think it's a good step. Doesn't anyone remember what a pain rotary dialing was?

It's not "rotary dialing" - the numbers are punched in with the click wheel...

Sir Hobos
Jul 19, 2007, 03:42 PM
Have you guys looked at the picture in the link?
http://www4.macnn.com/macnn/nimagesii/app_070705_rotary.jpg
from the looks of it, a rotary dialer doesn't mean that you will be dragging across the click wheel to press one number, but rather clicking in that location for that number. They could do it in such a way that press down on a part of the click wheel will pop up a little balloon on the screen showing you what number you are about to press,depending upon your location on the wheel. If you aren't on the correct number, you could then drag around until you hit the correct number, by releasing the wheel you will initiate the entering-in of that last number. This would be easer through time, allowing minimal scrolling and more accurate recognition. In the end, it may be a way to cheapen the iPhone nano, allowing everyone to have one.
I like the idea, but don't know if they should keep the numbers in clockwise rotation like in the picture or do it counter-clockwise like in normal rotary phones.

MidiMonk
Jul 19, 2007, 03:43 PM
I think Apple needs to stop focusing on trying to publicize the iPhone and start working on updating it's long overdue products. Seriously, like Apple isn't a cell phone company. They make computers and music players. Sorry, it just bugs me about the iPhone because that's the only thing you hear about today. Apple is losing its touch.

My feelings exactly:(

guitarplizayer
Jul 19, 2007, 03:43 PM
I also hear that Apple is going to make a Shuffle version of the iPhone too.

It's really cool. When you feel like making a call, it shuffles through all of your contacts and calls someone.


HAHAHA now that would be funny! "allright! who is going to be the lucky caller today! SUFFLE!!!..... oh hi... who is this.... Jeff.... oh hi jeff you have been randomly selected to be called by my iPhone shuffle" lol sorry thats random but thats what ran through my head when i read that hahaha.

LoganT
Jul 19, 2007, 03:45 PM
Nano phone could use flip out keyboard mentioned from other rumors last year. I remember someone that saw it quoted it was "...as small as s...".

Yes this is exactly what they should do.

MidiMonk
Jul 19, 2007, 03:46 PM
HAHAHA now that would be funny! "allright! who is going to be the lucky caller today! SUFFLE!!!..... oh hi... who is this.... Jeff.... oh hi jeff you have been randomly selected to be called by my iPhone shuffle" lol sorry thats random but thats what ran through my head when i read that hahaha.

LMAO, its the perfect tool for telemarketers:apple:

jdechko
Jul 19, 2007, 03:48 PM
HAHAHA now that would be funny! "allright! who is going to be the lucky caller today! SUFFLE!!!..... oh hi... who is this.... Jeff.... oh hi jeff you have been randomly selected to be called by my iPhone shuffle" lol sorry thats random but thats what ran through my head when i read that hahaha.

I can think of a few situations in which this might be useful. How about calling someone to come pick you up because you got really drunk... You don't even have to think, just press the call button.

miketcool
Jul 19, 2007, 03:49 PM
We all look at the word "click wheel" and we think the way its used today, but remember this macrumor a couple of days ago?

Apple Developing Backlit Trackpad?
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/07/16/illuminatedScrollWheel_300.gif

maybe this patent is being used in the iphone nano? It has the rotary display but is sensitive to touch. You just press the numbers around the click wheel. The light feedback can be used as a guide to know where you are pressing.

Just a thought.

bingo, same thing i was thinking.

It is either that, or a pad that illuminates a wheel and then changes to # keys for texting or dialing. Like a square pad that can show both through a simple iluminescence change.

DVNIEL
Jul 19, 2007, 03:51 PM
I'm sick of all this talk about a smartphone...

When is someone going to make the dumbphone?

LoganT
Jul 19, 2007, 03:51 PM
Honestly this is what I believe they should do. Move down the current version of the iPhone to 300 add 3G and maybe shrink the size of the screen to 3" instead of 3'5". The actual iPhone will have 16 and 32 GB's of flash memory and will cost as much as the current iPhone.

The reason I say this is because when you take away all of the features of the iPhone, and just make it a basic phone then it isn't an iPhone.

miketcool
Jul 19, 2007, 03:52 PM
I would normally agree with you, but I think the iPhone is different. First, cell phones are already established and accepted in the collective digital conscious. The cell phone market is massive. As successful as the iPhone will be, it is too expensive and too big for a large segment of the phone buying population. Apple could easily introduce a different form factor and feature set that targets a different segment of the market without sacrificing sales of their existing product.

By introducing a complete set of phones quickly, they can more effectively compete with more established players. Apple is a newbie to this game. Each of the major cell phone makers has a complete line of phones that target different aspects of the market. Apple has to be able to offer the same and soon. They can not afford to timidly wade into this cut throat business if they want this to be a major part of their business.

Apple needs to keep the momentum going. iPhone mania will die off soon, so by introducing a new type of phone they can capitalize on all the publicity they are getting.

Apple wants to be a leader, an innovator. The cell phone industry changes very quickly. Apple will have to move even quicker if they want to lead in this space.

I have one thing to say to that notion of an arrival this year; the FCC

guitarplizayer
Jul 19, 2007, 03:53 PM
I can think of a few situations in which this might be useful. How about calling someone to come pick you up because you got really drunk... You don't even have to think, just press the call button.

Yeah i remember getting phone calls from friends that had one to many that night. It wouldn't be to be pick them up though. They just had a habit calling people drunk im sure we all have some friends like that... or not haha anyways back to the iPhone mini/nano!

Oh wait you've seen those one phones for little kids that have only 4 buttons that are preset numbers so the kids can call home or their parents cells or what not... maybe that can be the iPhone shuffle:eek:.... nevermind bad idea haha

MrCrowbar
Jul 19, 2007, 03:55 PM
Have you guys looked at the picture in the link?
http://www4.macnn.com/macnn/nimagesii/app_070705_rotary.jpg
from the looks of it, a rotary dialer doesn't mean that you will be dragging across the click wheel to press one number, but rather clicking in that location for that number. They could do it in such a way that press down on a part of the click wheel will pop up a little balloon on the screen showing you what number you are about to press,depending upon your location on the wheel. If you aren't on the correct number, you could then drag around until you hit the correct number, by releasing the wheel you will initiate the entering-in of that last number. This would be easer through time, allowing minimal scrolling and more accurate recognition. In the end, it may be a way to cheapen the iPhone nano, allowing everyone to have one.
I like the idea, but don't know if they should keep the numbers in clockwise rotation like in the picture or do it counter-clockwise like in normal rotary phones.

My thoughts exactly. A touchscreen has to be a certain size to make sense. when the display is barely larger than your thumb it's just not fun to use. I love the clickwheel with the numbers on it. The Ccurrent clickwheel already can tell where they are touched. You can check this in the system test menu. Put 12 items there, 0-9 # and * that's all you really need. Most of the time you'll call someone from your address book anyway. As for texting, use 12 regions on the clickwheel and have some sort of Apple engeneered T9 that also helps you if you touch the wrong region, just like the iPhone helps you with typos. It it fits in my wallet like my nano does, I'm all for it. Might only do 2GB and 4 GB tho...


The reason I say this is because when you take away all of the features of the iPhone, and just make it a basic phone then it isn't an iPhone.

True, the iPhone is the high end consumer model. So the small one should be... Apple Phone Mini? :p

lou2000
Jul 19, 2007, 03:58 PM
I suppose if i had a nano with a contacts list that could be used to place calls I would be OK. I think that's about 98% of how i use my present phone. every once in a while i actually dial a number, so even if it was a little difficult it would only rarely be a problem . But isn't this what Steve Jobs was mocking when he introduced the iphone back in January?

bravedeer
Jul 19, 2007, 03:59 PM
It'll have a clickwheel and a keypad. It'll basically be a touchpad that is lit depending on what you're doing, if you're in iPod mode it's lit as a clickwheel, if you need to dial it's a keypad.

johnpaul191
Jul 19, 2007, 03:59 PM
Would it be accurate to assume that a new form factor phone would have to go through similar FCC approval as the original iPhone? and if so is there any way to check what has been submitted? I imagine that the process would have to begin very very soon for a new phone to be available by the holidays. If this is the case it may be likely that the new model would be announced at MacWorld in a similar fashion as the original...

yes, it will show up in some form on the FCC website. sites like phonescoop.com always scan the FCC site to figure out what's coming next. it won't tell you all the details, but you will knnow, for example, that Nokia has a new CDMA phone that has an internal code name if G473D or whatever. it would be on here i guess: http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/new.php?m=f

Apple had to come out ahead of the initial iPhone because them making any Apple phone was a surprise. the future models may be leaked on the FCC site first, if Apple doesn't jump them again. if Apple ignores that, it will really just let you know that *some* revision is coming. sometimes the FCC listings don't have images, and they won't tell you non-phone related details.

also remember that there is an iPhone for UK/Europe due soonish, and a Japanese model just behind that. i don't know if the USA will see a 2nd model before the rest of the world gets their first. i guess it comes down to marketing and contract negotiations once the iPhone factory is ahead of demand.

guitarplizayer
Jul 19, 2007, 04:01 PM
does anyone think that apple will expand to other providers im not sure what the contacts or what not are, bur for example you can get the razor on any provider now...:apple:

squirrellydw
Jul 19, 2007, 04:03 PM
We need more pictures on what we think this might look like :D

rockosmodurnlif
Jul 19, 2007, 04:04 PM
It will also be $50 - 100 cheaper, feature have the space of the current cheapest iPhone, come in five different colors, lose the giant screen, sell like hotcakes and be backordered for a ridiculous amount of months.

Soon your Mac-World will be dominated by talk of the "iPhone halo" as AAPL soars towards the high 100s. The iTunes Ringtones Store will debut, contract negotiations with ringtone providers will result in Apple starting it's own ringtone label. Apple fanboys everywhere will say thats what Apple should have done in the first place and other ringtone services be damned for not being as successful as Apple.

Microsoft will release the Phune with a San Diego Padres white-yellow-orange-brown pattern. Other cellphone manufacturers will release their "iPhone killers" and not understand how Apple took over their market. Creative will sue Apple again over the "nano" name.

All the while there will be discussion that Paul McCartney was spotted with an iPhone meaning Beatles ringtones are on their way to the store.

A vision of the future based on questions I asked my Magic 8-ball dashboard widget, a "trusted and verifiable" source.

rockthecasbah
Jul 19, 2007, 04:08 PM
The bit about rotary dialing is complete bull. Many people in the market for this may not have even SEEN a rotary phone in their lives since it is such antiquated technlogy. Also, since many people, especially younger people, text even more than they use phone functionality that this is just complete nonsense.


How did this rotary phone bit make front page again? :p


I don't know if Apple is going to release an 'iPhone Nano' or whatever, but it seems that it would be much later, rather than sooner.

MrCrowbar
Jul 19, 2007, 04:09 PM
are you guys serious about dialing?

i have dialed 1 of the past 60 calls in my call log. Address Book syncing FTW!

Dialing's not really the problem. I got all my contacts on my nano. having a "call" menu entry would be just fine. Texting is the issue here. This phone would be more affordable for the young people and they love texting. They're just not gonna buy if if they can't type on it. Touchable regions on the wheel and some sort of T9 would do the trick.

thuff13
Jul 19, 2007, 04:10 PM
I think the a big reason that Apple entered the cell phone market is because cell phones were becoming a threat to iPods. There are tons of MP3 phones now and Apple had to adapt and that meant making an iPod/cell phone. Now, Apple's best selling iPod is the nano and most MP3 cell phones are smaller, cheaper phones, not smart phones. In light of this, it only makes sense that they release a smaller, cheaper version of the iPhone. It also makes since that they release the more expensive, fancier model first. They wanted to make an impression on consumers (which I think they did) and establish their brand in the cell phone market. Now that they have everyone's attention, they can make a more mainstream phone that marries simple cell phone capabilities (including texting) with the iPod. If they do not release a phone aimed at a broader audience, they will never succeed in the market and the iPod will eventually begin to loose it's market share to MP3 cell phones.

iSee
Jul 19, 2007, 04:13 PM
I can't believe this.

The rotary click dial thing would pretty much suck completely.

Dialing anyone not in your contacts would be so painful. Even working your way through a menu of contacts would be bad:

1. Hit BACK zero or more times to reach the main menu.
2. Scroll to 'Call Contact', click center
3. Scroll to desired contact, click center
4. Scroll to desired number (home, work, mobile, etc), click center

I guess they could allow you to put extreme favorites on the main menu, but if the main menu gets very long, it becomes more difficult to use for everything.

And shouldn't this have leaked out earlier because of the FCC certification process? If they are releasing an iPhone Nano, it can't believe it would use a clunky scroll-wheel interface.

Gymnut
Jul 19, 2007, 04:15 PM
I guess I can see such a device retailing between $200-$250; If it were cheaper then even better.

Clive At Five
Jul 19, 2007, 04:22 PM
This thing is gonig to be ridiculously successful.
But where will the keypad go?

No, you have to say it in marketing jargain:

"Where did the keypad go?"

We need more pictures on what we think this might look like :D

Let the terrible mock-ups begin.

-Clive

varunbster
Jul 19, 2007, 04:23 PM
does rotary dialing matter that much once you have a contact list uploaded from yr isync or yr old phone?

Kashchei
Jul 19, 2007, 04:30 PM
I think Apple needs to stop focusing on trying to publicize the iPhone and start working on updating it's long overdue products. Seriously, like Apple isn't a cell phone company. They make computers and music players. Sorry, it just bugs me about the iPhone because that's the only thing you hear about today. Apple is losing its touch.

Hear, hear! I hope we are both proven completely and utterly wrong with insanely great products rolled out between now and the end of the year. At the moment, however, I agree whole-heartedly with Caitlyn. The hype introduced at MWSF ( . . . . just the beginning) is started to ring a bit hollow.

Yankees 4 Life
Jul 19, 2007, 04:32 PM
texting would be a b#tch!! i would definently not buy that phone... i love my current iPhone :)

Lancetx
Jul 19, 2007, 04:35 PM
Here's my idea for the iPhone nano FWIW. Take the current iPhone hardware and subtract EDGE and Wi-Fi, and make it a similar but smaller and thinner form factor with a 2.5" screen instead of the 3.5" on the current iPhone.

Then apps wise, take the group on the current iPhone and subtract YouTube, Stocks, Maps, Weather, Notes, Mail and Safari. Everything else is left basically the same as the current iPhone including the Multitouch user interface.

Sandfleaz
Jul 19, 2007, 04:36 PM
Sorry, never happen for a lot of reasons.
Apple is not going back to the click wheel.
Apple will want one full holiday season behind it before it introduces a lower price iPhone.

pkpkast
Jul 19, 2007, 04:39 PM
While not likely, this still could work. However, I was thinking more along the lines of this:

http://web.mac.com/postrs/pad.bmp

Although, I'm not sure where the 0, #, and * would go. Texting would follow conventional cell phone texting (2 = ABC, etc). No room or need for a virtual qwerty keyboard.

A nano touchscreen can't be much smaller than the current iPhones because people's fingers are simply fat. The iPod scroll wheel is actually really nice, and really simple. I would say it's more intuitive than the iPhone touchscreen...

Added backlighting and more touch smarts to a scroll wheel could make the above concept work.

Hattig
Jul 19, 2007, 04:40 PM
I imagine that the non-screen area of such a device would be a touchpad.

In certain modes you would use it like a clickwheel, and it would have faint grooves on it for tactile reasons.

In other modes it would act like a square touchpad where tapping in certain areas will select that number / letter (letters will be like on most phones, three or four per number).

Well, it's one possibility that seems fairly cheap to implement.

The clickwheel with numbers around it is reasonable, but I think that texting will be awkward with this mechanism - non-standard, but not better either. Given that texting is the primary feature on a mobile phone aimed at the under 25s in the UK, and an iPhone "nano" would be aimed at these people too, they will go for something that will work well.

Personally I still believe that they'll cost-reduce the current iPhone in the future and drop the price to create a product at a cheaper price. That might be a year off, and have a slightly smaller screen and so on.

natejohnstone@g
Jul 19, 2007, 04:48 PM
The click-wheel enabled rotary dialing is a fun option to have on the phone, but it CANNOT be the only way of imputing date. There needs to be a click-wheel/trackpade hybrid imput method if this is to work. You HAVE to have quick-keys, regular push-dialing options and speeddial, etc., or the average user simply wont' like it. Better yet, why not a less-functional touch-screen interface?

One of the main complaints of the iPhone is that it's "too much." It's simply more device than a lot of people need, and it also costs more money.

A simpler iPhone Nano idea is brilliant and will probably outsell the regular iPhone. But it does need to be very user-friendly and easy for non-iPod/Mac people.

lamar777
Jul 19, 2007, 04:51 PM
Doesn't look bad

quigleybc
Jul 19, 2007, 04:56 PM
wake me when any of this ***** is available in my country.....

psycoswimmer
Jul 19, 2007, 05:00 PM
Nokia already tried this. (http://news.com.com/Nokia+builds+camera+into+phone/2100-1033_3-956826.html)

If I remember correctly, it didn't go over so well; they later designed a phone just like that except with a traditional keypad.

pkpkast
Jul 19, 2007, 05:04 PM
Nokia already tried this. (http://news.com.com/Nokia+builds+camera+into+phone/2100-1033_3-956826.html)

If I remember correctly, it didn't go over so well; they later designed a phone just like that except with a traditional keypad.

Yeah but that looks like crap and I can see why that didn't work. Apple already has the affordance of that click-wheel design.

marksman
Jul 19, 2007, 05:05 PM
I've been nay saying the possibility of a 2nd iPhone on the boards with every rumor report.

This is still by far a confirmation but JP Morgan might want to rethink their decision to fire that Analyst soon :D

There are just too many unassociated sources pointing to the same rumor at this point .... IMO iPhone 2 is coming soon....


Sources: Apple set to grow iPhone family pre-holidays (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/07/19/sources_apple_set_to_grow_iphone_family_pre_holidays.html)


I still don't believe it. And honestly, I think the entire concept is a bad one.

I think the people who bash the iPhone as something that sells simply because of the Apple name might actually be true when it comes to a Nano iPhone.

Time will tell.. but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Maybe I am the atypical iPhone user though. The iPod functionality is what I use least on the phone right now.

marksman
Jul 19, 2007, 05:08 PM
"the second iteration of the handset is presumed to marry iPod functionality with rudimentary cellular capabilities. More resource-heavy Internet browsing and e-mail capabilities are not expected of the device."

No internet nor email? Not interested.

Yeah that is my issue too. What is the draw of the phone. Combo simple cell phone and iPod? I guess I can see the potential market there. As long as it has text messaging, and ipod functionality, teenagers would probably like it a lot. The problem then comes to pricing. It would have to probably be $199 or less and eventually free with contracts and such.

For me the iPhone's appeal is in its Internet connectivity especially with safari and its wide screen. The other functionality as well. Take the big screen and the web browsing away, and the phone has a lot less value, to me.

iMeowbot
Jul 19, 2007, 05:13 PM
Would it be accurate to assume that a new form factor phone would have to go through similar FCC approval as the original iPhone?
Yep.
and if so is there any way to check what has been submitted?
For approved devices, all you need is the manufacturer's three letter code to do a search. For pending applications, you need full numbers, so they're not generally available to the outside world.

MrCrowbar
Jul 19, 2007, 05:15 PM
Doesn't look bad

Dude, that thing is pimp. I want one, now! Love the glossy black/matte aluminum combination. I want one, I want one now.

If you send me the PSD file, I can do it in all nano colors.

Bradley W
Jul 19, 2007, 05:16 PM
_

jrhone
Jul 19, 2007, 05:16 PM
and half the performance... or even less.

Nope because it wont have Wifi, it wont have all the other bells and whistles...it'll be a Nano and basic phone.....

Cabrewolf
Jul 19, 2007, 05:17 PM
FCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCC-FCC

There will be no suprises in the word of cell phones. If it was going to trail by a few months, we would already know.

Even where the FCC agrees to keep confidential, they do not.

megfilmworks
Jul 19, 2007, 05:18 PM
seems like a rather quick canibalization play, but stranger things have happened...
Sounds like smart marketing with concurrent R+D (lowers cost)

natejohnstone@g
Jul 19, 2007, 05:23 PM
FCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCCFCC-FCC

There will be no suprises in the word of cell phones. If it was going to trail by a few months, we would already know.

Even where the FCC agrees to keep confidential, they do not.

To have a phone out by Christmas they would not have had to submit it to the FCC yet. Soon...but not yet, because much of the technology would be the same. My understanding it's that it's a bit faster to get a remodel/2nd phone approved than for a 1st Gen/new phone.

Either way, yes we will know a couple months in advance when Apple will release new iPhones.

megfilmworks
Jul 19, 2007, 05:26 PM
I think this would make texting incredibly difficult and inefficient. Hmmm, that would be a first for Apple.
Why does everyone on these posts make such silly snap decisions. Have faith in the Apple teams...they are the best in the biz.

MacSA
Jul 19, 2007, 05:30 PM
Oh great, we will have to go through all that iPhone rumour and hype all over again.

Shagrat
Jul 19, 2007, 05:36 PM
Oh great, we will have to go through all that iPhone rumour and hype all over again.

Well this IS iPhonerumors.com, isn't it?

Oh, it isn't...!:D

King Crimson
Jul 19, 2007, 05:41 PM
Hi there,

think about the possibilities of this rotary-dial click wheel patent ...

Texting: 0-9 and the # and stuff displayed on the wheel, then in handy-fashion one click to the number and *blink* the click wheel changes: on the wheel around the current "button" the corresponding letters (Nokia SMS-style). A second click (another - including the initial a double - click) on the number then inserts the number, one click to the letter-list around the number inserts the letter.

Let the letters be one side and the punctation signs etc. opposing ...

Could realy be fast once you get used to it ...

Cheers!

P.S.: I love my Treo keyboard :cool:

n-abounds
Jul 19, 2007, 05:46 PM
I vote for two rotary dials for texting... letters A - M on the left side, letters N - Z on the right side. Then just a tap inserts em.

uv23
Jul 19, 2007, 05:48 PM
A smaller, reduced feature iPhone makes sense in markets such as Canada where data plans are prohibitively expensive. Simple as that.

Sandfleaz
Jul 19, 2007, 05:49 PM
Sorry folks, even the name "rotary dial" sounds incredibly out-of-date!

Think like Apple ....this will never happen!

J Radical
Jul 19, 2007, 05:53 PM
Rotary dialing sounds terrible!

This would be a huge step backwards. I'm in favour of a slide iPhone nano. Wheel + Screen with a sliding key pad underneath:

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/11591507/Samsung_D900.jpg

Only with a wheel obviously.

edit: here you go, not to scale but you get the idea, this would be a great design.

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4126/iphonenanopp0.jpg

You don't always have to go for the revolutionary, simply improve an existing hardware design and tie it to great phone/ipod OS. I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

The D900 is actually a really nice phone in of itself, 3MP camera too...

Since the vast majority of phone sales are non-smart phones this is the market to go after, Apple could easily snag 10% of the market within 2 years. Get moving!

King Crimson
Jul 19, 2007, 05:55 PM
Why shouldn't :apple: be the first company to present a perfect, easy and simply "just-a-phone" to the market? My Grandma could never use a normal cellphone, just too small, complicated and *spooky* :eek: It's all about interface-design ...

My parents would need one ...

Cheers!

lcm123
Jul 19, 2007, 05:58 PM
Doesn't look bad

i'd buy this if its touchscreen keyboard accepts stylus input device, otherwise i don't see how you can type on such a small screen with your finger.:eek:

EagerDragon
Jul 19, 2007, 06:00 PM
I would find this hard to believe, I do think that a phone / iPod combo would require a lot of the same hardware, so the cost is going to be close, they can lower the price further by just making less per phone and instead go with the volume of sales. However such limited capability just not as cool and not as obvious allready exist. There are a lot of phones that can play music. I do not believe that it would be as marketable and desirable as people think.

IMHO makes more sense to create a better iPhone with all the desire attributes like 3G capability, video recording, camera in the front, video iChat, and a GPS and sell it for the same as the current iPhone. Then sell the current iPhone for 150 to 200 less and make that the iPhone for the masses.

This way Apple can get mass sales of both the upper and lower markets.

IMHO a crippled iPhone won't sell well and if it did it would seriously hurt iPod sales.

EagerDragon
Jul 19, 2007, 06:12 PM
I have a feeling the clickwheel will not be added to any iPhone family product. In fact, we might not see it on any new iPods, either. Apple has a lot invested in Multitouch. More than they have revealed so far, I think. ;)

Well that is good, however how you do multitouch on a screen the size of a stamp? Use 2 toothpicks to do the pinch?

I do not see it, but then again im going blind, so you maybe right.

EagerDragon
Jul 19, 2007, 06:30 PM
It would be more popular if they adapted a different iPod with phone capabilities and using voice controls instead of the big screen. See model here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4648486036015499267
:eek:

chocolate
Jul 19, 2007, 06:30 PM
Does the agreement with big-daddy At&t mean that, if there IS a different iPhone version, it cannot contract with Verizon or T-Mobile?

Ha ze
Jul 19, 2007, 06:45 PM
Does the agreement with big-daddy At&t mean that, if there IS a different iPhone version, it cannot contract with Verizon or T-Mobile?

I would only assume that AT&T would lock up any handset made by Apple, Inc. but who knows.

i think a full touch screen with a slide out keyboard, then type in landscape (ala sidekick almost) would be very cool.

Apple should also (think about this) figure out a way for two phone to be registered to the same sim/account. IE i want my iPhone when going out or to the office, but iPhoneNano for working out or running. No sense in not exploring the idea of letting people buy and use both your phones.

elguille
Jul 19, 2007, 06:55 PM
so what's next??? the iPhone shuffle!!!!! randomly calls whenever you want!!!!

nice!!!!!! :eek:

dernhelm
Jul 19, 2007, 07:00 PM
Hook. Line. Sinker.

oldwatery
Jul 19, 2007, 07:06 PM
Much as the basic concept appeals to me I just can't see it happening:(

1. Too close to the iPhone launch which has hardly even started in the rest of the world.

2. It will certainly affect sales of the iPhone.

3.There is no way it is coming in the next few months if the reason for the pre launch of the original phone was true. ie....the FCC testing requirements and the chances of a leak.

Plus I just hope Apple can get back to doing some computer stuff before spending their resources on another consumer electronics product.

mpw
Jul 19, 2007, 07:07 PM
...IMHO a crippled iPhone won't sell well...
Seems to have been selling quite well so far.

oldwatery
Jul 19, 2007, 07:10 PM
Oh...I just realized I've already got one of these, its called a Sony Ericsson 810.
OK...so its a bit bigger than a Nano ;)
But it was free....and I can change the battery and upgrade the memory :D

thuff13
Jul 19, 2007, 07:11 PM
I would only assume that AT&T would lock up any handset made by Apple, Inc. but who knows.

i think a full touch screen with a slide out keyboard, then type in landscape (ala sidekick almost) would be very cool.

Apple should also (think about this) figure out a way for two phone to be registered to the same sim/account. IE i want my iPhone when going out or to the office, but iPhoneNano for working out or running. No sense in not exploring the idea of letting people buy and use both your phones.

Since the iPhone works on a GMS network and uses a SIM card it would be very easy to use both phones on the same account. All you would have to do is put the SIM card in the phone you want to use at the time. Nothing for Apple to figure out. I have already done this with my old phone. I went to the beach and didn't want to bring my iPhone, so I took my old phone and put the SIM card from my iPhone in it.

avigalante
Jul 19, 2007, 07:12 PM
Seems to have been selling quite well so far.

He's referring to the prospect of an iPhone Nano... hence the title of the thread...

iMichael72
Jul 19, 2007, 07:12 PM
I have an iPhone, but this is great news for Apple. Hmmm, will the temptation be too great for me to resist a second iPhone?

mpw
Jul 19, 2007, 07:14 PM
He's referring to the prospect of an iPhone Nano... hence the title of the thread...
Oh, then he should've said "crippled iPhone Nano" to distinguish it from the crippled iPhone then.

MrCrowbar
Jul 19, 2007, 07:15 PM
Rotary dialing sounds terrible!

This would be a huge step backwards. I'm in favour of a slide iPhone nano. Wheel + Screen with a sliding key pad underneath:

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/11591507/Samsung_D900.jpg

Only with a wheel obviously.

The D900 is actually quite a nice phone in of itself. It would probably if apple could equal the design quality of this phone and beat it with a better interface and OS they'd have an instant winner.

My girlfriend actually just got that phone. It's not bad, the interface is clear and looks pretty.a slider phone could work indeed. But aren't buttons old school for Apple? Look at the mighty mouse... :p

MrCrowbar
Jul 19, 2007, 07:19 PM
I bought a black 2G nano. I could have bought the regular 5.5G 30GB video iPod for the same price. Why did I take the nano? It's nice and small, less fragile, less heavy. Always have it on me.

The iPhone is kinda big. Too big for some peopl and definitely not something for the purse. There wil evetually be a small Apple phone, maybe a different name tho. Nanophone or something...

twoodcc
Jul 19, 2007, 07:36 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing this happen

QuarterSwede
Jul 19, 2007, 07:36 PM
A rotary click wheel isn't such a bad idea especially when most people use their address book to call people (I know I do). The only problem I see with a rotary clickwheel is texting, which I think is useless anyway but that's beside the point. I don't see it too far from Apple to say, hey if you want texting then buy a full sized iPhone. They did it with the iPod Shuffle.

mpw
Jul 19, 2007, 07:39 PM
...texting, which I think is useless anyway...
I'm intrigued to know why? I send at least 400 texts a month and don't know what I'd do if I couldn't text anymore.

ToneFREQ
Jul 19, 2007, 08:07 PM
See? I told you folks yesterday that the cheaper iPhone would just be an iPod with contacts & calendar and a phone. No Email, web browsing or data connection. Makes perfect sense.

avigalante
Jul 19, 2007, 08:12 PM
...texting, which I think is useless anyway...

I'm a text-a-holic, I send over 3000+ a month (not sure how I do it, but it keeps me in touch with all my friends...)

:cool:

Not sure how people can say that text-messaging has no purpose....

bigjohn
Jul 19, 2007, 08:17 PM
Apple Bluetooth Headset:
Dimensions: 2.0 x 0.5 x 0.2 inches

iPod Nano:
Dimensions: 3.5 1.6 0.26 inches


Throw an earpiece onto the Nano, narrow it up a bit and enable voice commands. Maybe a small utility screen and possibly a touch-sensitive scroll wheel and a price point of $199 and I think you have a winner. Make the sim interchangeable only with the iPhone and it's a surefire bet. The slimmer, more compact clubbin' version of your clunky iPhone v1.

defeated
Jul 19, 2007, 08:17 PM
no wifi, no future

lord patton
Jul 19, 2007, 08:22 PM
I would normally agree with you, but I think the iPhone is different. First, cell phones are already established and accepted in the collective digital conscious...

By introducing a complete set of phones quickly, they can more effectively compete with more established players. Apple is a newbie to this game. Each of the major cell phone makers has a complete line of phones that target different aspects of the market. Apple has to be able to offer the same and soon. They can not afford to timidly wade into this cut throat business if they want this to be a major part of their business.


I agree. They were in a similar situation with the Intel transition and their portable line-up. Did they promote the MacBook Pro for a year as their only portable? No. They got the MacBook out as fast as they could, as their was a market to fill.

Same thing with cell phones. Many people want smaller, cheaper, more basic phones, and Apple wants to sell them one.

My dream iPhone-nano:

Slightly wider and thicker than nano iPod (I find my nano hard to hold as a phone—I've tried :rolleyes:)
4GB and 8GB
Text, chat, and email, using landscape mode touchscreen keyboard.
Camera and that bad-ass photo viewing from the iPhone.
Calendar, weather, stock widgets... anything from iPhone that doesn't require wifi and Edge.
$5 "data" plan

So no web-surfin' internet, but definitely email and texting and photos. Could they sell it for $300, though?

plumbingandtech
Jul 19, 2007, 08:31 PM
. But could they make this and sell it for $300?

Prob. comes down to the screen size...

techkidd4400
Jul 19, 2007, 08:50 PM
It does seem like the cheaper iPhone "Nano" is on the way. I am pretty convinced of that. I know from extremely reputable reports that the iPhone Shuffle is also in the works.

Production on the iPhone Shuffle is ahead of schedule so it will be out in time for students (the target market) to buy it for the fall back to school season. The iPhone Shuffle's interface will not have a touch screen or click-wheel because the phone is too small. It will be easy to carry on a belt clip or just in the palm of your hand. Instead of a virtual keyboard, the iPhone Shuffle will use a chalkboard for data entry. Apple will provide special chalk in five fun colors and the data converts wirelessly.

While most details are not yet known, this iPhone will be a certain success. I know I wish I were on campus already.

pkpkast
Jul 19, 2007, 08:52 PM
Rotary Dialing?!?!?! It will NOT rotary dial. That is just ridiculous. Apple will never do a rotary dialing interface, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, EVER. The only way I see it working someting similair to the design below, otherwise no chance.

Please quit with the rotary dialing concept talk! That is the worst idea I've ever heard, almost as bad as the search feature on the iPod.

How would you text with a rotary dial? To type 'Z' you would rotary dial 9 3 times. That is absurd. Let's use our brains people, come on.

While not likely, this still could work. However, I was thinking more along the lines of this:

http://web.mac.com/postrs/pad.bmp

Although, I'm not sure where the 0, #, and * would go. Texting would follow conventional cell phone texting (2 = ABC, etc). No room or need for a virtual qwerty keyboard.

A nano touchscreen can't be much smaller than the current iPhones because people's fingers are simply fat. The iPod scroll wheel is actually really nice, and really simple. I would say it's more intuitive than the iPhone touchscreen...

Added backlighting and more touch smarts to a scroll wheel could make the above concept work.


These are BUTTON PRESSES, not ROTARY dialing...

mixel
Jul 19, 2007, 08:55 PM
Well, I'm all for this, as I'm sure they'd make a lovely device.

Only thing I'd be worried about is too many missing features.. In some ways the current iphone has that issue already, so a cut down version might be even worse. :(

It'd be nice if everyone could justify afford iPhones anyway. I don't see why this is negative news. Its not as if every other phone manufacturer doesnt have more than one model for different markets.. This is probably the only way to get serious market penetration.

As long as its a good (better than good to keep the brand up) phone this would be great news.. If it's not completely untrue anyway.

Rocketman
Jul 19, 2007, 09:39 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see the screen itself be a virtual click wheel thus allowing crippled sideways widescreen videos.

Also the disclosure at MW-07 was truer than you allowed yourself to believe:

http://www.v-serv.com/-upload/ApplePhonePod.jpg

:)

Rocketman

"He told you so."

indigo144
Jul 19, 2007, 09:43 PM
US Carriers had a business model where they routinely hand over $200+ to 3rd party vendors like Amazon for bringing in new subscribers.

In the old model the 3rd party vendors passed on most of that to the customer in the form of a phone subsidy.

In the new model, where the drooling customer is willing to fork up all the dough, and then the (already accounted for) sum is rightly passed on Apple as the source of the drool. The carrier's bean counters have already accounted for a similar practise.

All that changed is in who'se hands the dough ends up in.

Sorry: this is a post in the Page 2 Thread on Apple/ATT Revenue Sharing

Daringescape
Jul 19, 2007, 10:03 PM
I posted this in a thread the other day...

I was at the dentist the other day and the Hygienist was telling me about a patient who works for apple with an apple product that had a slide out keyboard. It had a control number etched on the back and he really wouldnt let her see it - he told her that the public hasnt seen it yet.

She is NOT tech savvy and has no clue what an Apple fan I am, so I doubt she was BSing me.

Maybe it was the rumored device???....

zombitronic
Jul 19, 2007, 10:10 PM
Because handheld just isn't handheld enough, and I'd sure love me some lack of features.

To me, one of the beauties of the iPhone is that it replaces that spot in your pocket, which used to be filled by your old stupid phone, with a mini-computer. With too much of the computer stripped off of a cheaper version, even with Apple's name behind it, this would be too mundane of a product to follow in the glory of the iPhone lineage.

Now, if all this stupid hoopla was just some idiot analysts' hearsay on an upcoming iPod; the one that we all expect minus the phone; I sense some credibility. Then again, we all expect this so there goes his analystic integrity.

I'm thinking of becoming an analyst, too. It seems easy. For my first trick, I predict that Apple will unveil a new computer some time in the future.

dontmatter
Jul 19, 2007, 10:24 PM
Hmmm....

to those who say it would cannibalize iphone sales, I don't think so. The iphone is about internet and email, about doing everything. This, I think, is designed to cannibalize ipod nano sales. If you could get a phone into the same size package, that'd be a heck of a tiny and sleek phone. Using a clickwheel to scroll through contacts and menus could make it the best phone functionality out there (by which I mean calling only). As such, this could stand on it's own as a phone, but throwing in an ipod massively increases the value, by both the value of the ipod and the value of the having one less thing to take with you, keep charged, etc.

From apple's perspective, it would be cannibalization of ipod nano's, sure, but it would be an upsell to a higher margin device, and it would ensure that they took that market, rather than other cell phone makers. True, it might take some of the shine off of the iphone name, but, like the shuffle is to the ipod, I think it is viewed as it's own area, and leaves the name pretty well intact.

The only big question for me is about the non-calling features. Would people buy a phone that sucked at texting? I sure would, but I don't text. Other than that, and of course iphone like internet features, I think it would rock.


So I vote for this product. Who knows if they're making it, but I think it'd be a good idea.

boss1
Jul 19, 2007, 10:26 PM
I don't think I'd buy one, only because I already have a full fledged iPhone, but I still kind of hope these rumors do become fact.

Something about the thought of all the execs at Nokia, Motorola, LG, Verizon & Sprint etc absolutely crapping their pants right now makes me giddy inside :)

Genghis Khan
Jul 19, 2007, 10:32 PM
it could be that this is still an iPod

even if it does have some phone capability...it could be primarily an iPod...which we all know as long overdue

nagromme
Jul 19, 2007, 10:54 PM
iPhone nano? Maybe sometime.

With clickwheel dialing? Not going to happen.

Ha ze
Jul 19, 2007, 11:28 PM
Since the iPhone works on a GMS network and uses a SIM card it would be very easy to use both phones on the same account. All you would have to do is put the SIM card in the phone you want to use at the time. Nothing for Apple to figure out. I have already done this with my old phone. I went to the beach and didn't want to bring my iPhone, so I took my old phone and put the SIM card from my iPhone in it.

I thought the SIM on the iPhone was locked in..
I guess i was thinking more of being able to use both "at the same time" like if you get a phone call, both would ring. however I guess then texts would have to go to both too.. if they could sync like emails that have already been read then that wouldn't be bad, but no one would want to read them twice.

But if it's like iPhone, they make you sign up for the contract so there is no just buying the phone, maybe thats just a iTunes/At&T software thing though?

ajhill
Jul 20, 2007, 12:03 AM
Does this look like the work of a company that is only trying for a 1% market share of the cell phone market?

Maybe 5-10% yes. But they'd take 20 in a heartbeat. Heck they'll sell 10 million of the iPhone before the year is out. Hopefully we get some insight into the numbers during Wednesdays conference call.

We're past 1 million, headed for 2 million. My $.02

APPLENEWBIE
Jul 20, 2007, 12:23 AM
Regarding a rotary dial, or a way to use a nano click wheel to dial, remember the apple patent that shows how a input device might change appearance to suit a purpose. You put your finger near the clickwheel in phone mode, it changes to simulate a circular number dial, for you to press or rotary dial. In rotary mode, you just touch the number an flick it a little... That would be a riot to see.

Or, maybe the dial changes to an alpha script, you just keep going around until your "letter" shows up (A- for instance), and it then directs to "Adam" or Abel

momo411176
Jul 20, 2007, 01:37 AM
Enjoy guys!

http://idotg.com/iphone/index.php :apple:

kontheur
Jul 20, 2007, 01:45 AM
Here's a little mock-up i made before the 1st iPhone was showed public:

http://forum.macosx.nl/album_pic.php?pic_id=18763

:)

hrmpf
Jul 20, 2007, 02:06 AM
http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/iphonenano.jpg

they're at hrmpf (http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/144/the-iphone-nano-closer-than-you-think). Apparently there are two patent applications with steve Jobs as lead inventor for the iPhone Nano

bigjohn
Jul 20, 2007, 02:17 AM
I don't think I'd buy one, only because I already have a full fledged iPhone

interesting since this first version of the iPhone isn't even "full-fledged"

8Phoenix
Jul 20, 2007, 02:35 AM
Have you guys looked at the picture in the link?
http://www4.macnn.com/macnn/nimagesii/app_070705_rotary.jpg
from the looks of it, a rotary dialer doesn't mean that you will be dragging across the click wheel to press one number, but rather clicking in that location for that number. They could do it in such a way that press down on a part of the click wheel will pop up a little balloon on the screen showing you what number you are about to press,depending upon your location on the wheel. If you aren't on the correct number, you could then drag around until you hit the correct number, by releasing the wheel you will initiate the entering-in of that last number. This would be easer through time, allowing minimal scrolling and more accurate recognition. In the end, it may be a way to cheapen the iPhone nano, allowing everyone to have one.
I like the idea, but don't know if they should keep the numbers in clockwise rotation like in the picture or do it counter-clockwise like in normal rotary phones.

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/07/16/illuminatedScrollWheel_300.gif

I think this rotary dialling is going to be damn cool. Look at it this way;

Using the circle dial, you are able to press numbers on the dial (with backlit) and if you make a mistake just "scroll" in counter clockwise to delete the previous number, and when you finish pressing all numbers to make a call, just drag your finger clockwise like a rotary dialling to make the call.

The multi touch dial will enable you to access several features, shortcuts so on, making it a basic yet effective phone and ipod.

I don't think this kind of phone would have texting capacity, I would be very surprised if it does, unless the small screen that shows the dial would be a multitouch screen like the iPhone and changes to keypad of an ordinary mobile/cell phone when you want to use texting.

As the second previous post shows several images of the iphone nano patents, I hope Apple is not going down that path, but what I suggested above.

Shagrat
Jul 20, 2007, 02:41 AM
See? I told you folks yesterday that the cheaper iPhone would just be an iPod with contacts & calendar and a phone. No Email, web browsing or data connection. Makes perfect sense.
What if ALL ipods in future will have phone capabilities?

Just as all the phone manufacturers seem to have been adding MP3 capabilities, Apple could do the opposite, and differentiate models by the depth of facilities.

Just a thought.

Cloudsurfer
Jul 20, 2007, 02:46 AM
An iPhone without the wi-fi and touch screen and high prices, but more expensive than an iPod nano? I'm guessing 299$.

If, for that price, it comes without a carrier, I consider the iPhone nano mine :cool:

I don't think this kind of phone would have texting capacity, I would be very surprised if it does, unless the small screen that shows the dial would be a multitouch screen like the iPhone and changes to keypad of an ordinary mobile/cell phone when you want to use texting.

If it doesn't have texting, consider it dead in Europe. Texting with a clickwheel is a long and tedious process, but I think it can be pulled off. Especially with multi-touch.

Dalriada
Jul 20, 2007, 02:59 AM
....The second model may indeed fit a "Nano" moniker, as it is said to hold a smaller form factor and simply marry iPod functionality with basic cellular functionality.

That's exactly what I am dreaming for... nothing more nothing less :p

:apple:Dal

Matteh117
Jul 20, 2007, 03:21 AM
I think an iPhone Nano would defeat the purpose of an iPhone...

3G iPhones in Europe are more important than a stupid iPhone Nano. :)

freddiecable
Jul 20, 2007, 03:29 AM
it would be stupid to enter the mobile phone market with only one phone! but what confuses me with this story is that...why not make a 2.5" iPhone with the same spec and functionality? an ipod click-wheel feels a bit half-hearted - like an ipod shuffle.

offwidafairies
Jul 20, 2007, 04:16 AM
i need space to text. and i need to see what im reading.:(

IHateUserNames
Jul 20, 2007, 04:51 AM
I don't believe for one second that we'll ever see an iPhone nano w/ clickwheel. The sole purpose of Apple's patent application was to fool competitors, imho.

I suppose the nano phone will be a multi-touch device:

- iPod nano form factor
- widescreen display with multi-touch
- *no* on-screen keyboard, just an on-screen numpad with T9 or something like that (due to screen real estate)
- no Wi-Fi
- low-resolution camera

- basic phone functionality
- music and video playback functionality
- photo viewing
- text messaging
- visual voicemail
- contacts / address book
- *no* mail
- *no* internet
- *no* widgets

- 2 and 4 GB models (299 and 399$)
- 5 different colors (like the iPod nano)

rhpixelfreak
Jul 20, 2007, 05:10 AM
Sounds dumb. The iPhone will hold up against smartphones mostly because of multitouch.
What will a phone without multitouch and keyboard accomplish? /compete against?

kallisti
Jul 20, 2007, 05:24 AM
I think an iPhone Nano would defeat the purpose of an iPhone...

3G iPhones in Europe are more important than a stupid iPhone Nano. :)

(1) I'm not sure how an iPhone nano defeats the purpose. I think phone + iPod would be appealing to many, assuming a lower price point. While other phones may have MP3 players, none of them are iPods. This is important both for reasons of functionality and ease of use. It is also important for the "coolness" factor, something that matters quite a bit to many. Other features could also add to perceived value (i.e. the ability to easily sync contacts, calendars, and photos).

(2) I don't see why the existance of this rumored device would have any impact whatsoever on the release of an iPhone outside of the US.

(3) If the rumored revenue sharing with AT&T is true, then releasing an iPhone "lite" in time for the holidays would be a cash cow for both Apple and AT&T.

nickane
Jul 20, 2007, 06:06 AM
I've been nay saying the possibility of a 2nd iPhone on the boards with every rumor report.

This is still by far a confirmation but JP Morgan might want to rethink their decision to fire that Analyst soon :D

There are just too many unassociated sources pointing to the same rumor at this point .... IMO iPhone 2 is coming soon....


Sources: Apple set to grow iPhone family pre-holidays (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/07/19/sources_apple_set_to_grow_iphone_family_pre_holidays.html)

I'd have said that JP Morgan were right to fire that analyst, since his "analysis" was obviously not pure conjecture. Any analyst could guess from the way that Apple tends to stratify their product lines that a cheaper phone offering was on the cards. The fact that it's coming so soon is what is surprising and the fact that he was acting on inside info in guessing how soon it was coming, meant that his "analysis" was really more of a leak and that's probably why they fired him.

The good news is that it seems Apple has not only thrown so many resources behind the iphone that they've put off updating software and hardware ever since the day this thing was announced (the 6-month hiatus in new macs that began just before macworld, leopard, ilife etc), but, that a lot of those delays seem to have been almost on purpose so that new macs/software released in late 2007 can bask in the iphone halo effect. Expect to hear a lot more of the new imacs and the across-the-line-octo-core mac pro than you otherwise would have.

I would expect also that the halo effect of the iphone will be far greater than that of the ipod, purely based on the press coverage so far, and given the narrow market at which the iphone is targeted simply by virtue of its expense, I would expect that a more affordable mass market phone release between now and Xmas will extend that halo effect much further in time for some of those "exciting new products" we heard about at macworld (of which the iphone nano is surely one, but also the rumoured ultra-portable and perhaps a replacement for the mac mini).

Its not too late to buy stock...

RumMunkey
Jul 20, 2007, 06:10 AM
rudimentary cellular capabilities

Anybody else think (hope) that might mean a CMDA model for Canada??

I'm thinking an iPhone Nano would be a great idea for any non-US markets (ie Canada) where the networks are different.

dernhelm
Jul 20, 2007, 06:18 AM
Sounds dumb. The iPhone will hold up against smartphones mostly because of multitouch.
What will a phone without multitouch and keyboard accomplish? /compete against?

Agreed. This has to be an elaborate joke/hoax. No way Apple releases something on the iPhone moniker that does not use multitouch as the primary interface mechanism. Talk about customer confusion!

The iPhone IS the iPhone because of multtouch. Apple wouldn't screw around with that.

jouster
Jul 20, 2007, 06:55 AM
I have an iPhone, but this is great news for Apple. Hmmm, will the temptation be too great for me to resist a second iPhone?

Well, it might be if it were actually news, as opposed to an unverifiable rumor.

Nym
Jul 20, 2007, 06:57 AM
Imo this makes a lot of sense actually.

I for one won't buy an iPhone because it's overkill for my needs, I'm not looking for E-Mail and Web Browsing on my cell phone, however, I would love to replace my 1st Gen 2GB iPod Nano for a Nano/iPhone Combo, especially if it stays within the Nano price range.

This is perfect for people who, just like me, don't actually need a smart phone, but want the convenience of the best cell phone UI and integration with Adress Book, iCal and etc.

I think that the iPhone Nano will have multitouch, don't ask me why, that's up to Apple's design crew to figure out, just don't make me type text messages on a click-wheel FFS :D

boss1
Jul 20, 2007, 07:38 AM
http://www4.macnn.com/macnn/nimagesii/app_070705_rotary.jpg


I have big doubts that this will be the iteration of input interface for this new iPhone. It makes it difficult to input text. Even if the numbers are also numbers. ie. pressing the number 2, 2 times = letter b.

Even the cheapest of cheapest cellphones have the letters that correspond to each number written above each number.

RoboCop001
Jul 20, 2007, 07:47 AM
A phone without text capabilities? Didn't that end with the introduction of the LCD screen on cell phones?

.... I don't know, I mean as far as I know, every cell phone in the world can do text, right? Or at least 98% of them? Correct me if I'm wrong, as I've done no research whatsoever, but why then would Apple leave out a major feature like that? Almost everyone texts.

I mean, if this is to be the "iPhone for everyone", shouldn't it stand to reason that it MUST include text capabilities? Perhaps not necessarily, but why leave out such a feature? Just so that it has a scroll wheel? I doubt it.

And... every incarnation of the dialing scroll-wheel, no matter how interesting, I think would be impractical in the end. I just don't see that happening, personally. Nor texting with a scroll wheel. I think it would just be cumbersome.

If they release the "iPhone nano" without text, that would be like having the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro without an iMac to fill the gap. Are they going to make a third iPhone?

This couldn't be it... if anything, my opinion is that this is some crazy mixup between an iPod (nano or otherwise) rumor and the international iPhone rumor. Probably. I'm pretty sure....

The iPhone shuffle idea would be pretty funny though, haha. Who will I call next?? Not even the phone knows for sure.

johnee
Jul 20, 2007, 07:49 AM
oh god i hope not

APPLENEWBIE
Jul 20, 2007, 07:54 AM
...just an on-screen numpad with T9 or something like that (due to screen real estate)

Right. With a good predictive algorithym. My aging Moto is quite good that way. Also, voice dialing would be a must.

benpatient
Jul 20, 2007, 08:16 AM
um....I already have one of these....it's called a Moto SLVR and it is free with a contract agreement. No way that they are going to put out another iphone, but this time without the touchscreen. There would be no point.

macintel4me
Jul 20, 2007, 08:22 AM
I have not read this entire thread, but any new phone would require FCC approval. We would therefore know about this phone six months ahead of its release just like in the case of the iPhone.

sbrownla
Jul 20, 2007, 08:38 AM
I have not read this entire thread, but any new phone would require FCC approval. We would therefore know about this phone six months ahead of its release just like in the case of the iPhone.

Not necessarily. Some devices go through in a matter of weeks.

Matteh117
Jul 20, 2007, 08:47 AM
Not necessarily. Some devices go through in a matter of weeks.

Especially when their predecessors have already been approved. :)

ibwb
Jul 20, 2007, 08:55 AM
interesting since this first version of the iPhone isn't even "full-fledged"

Interesting, since it is. It seems rather foolish to go on about how the iPhone is "crippled" or whatever because it doesn't have your pet feature. This is like complaining that a Honda Civic isn't a "full-fledged" car because it can't tow a trailer for your horses. Nobody cares!

Teddy's
Jul 20, 2007, 08:58 AM
What about Text messaging for pete's sack! ok enough of trackpads, what about text???

I liked the idea of a sliding dial pad or maybe qwerty kb. but oh well, if apple actually do this? I want to see.


wake me when any of this ***** is available in my country.....

Yup! c ya in 2012!

samstod
Jul 20, 2007, 09:13 AM
Interesting, since it is. It seems rather foolish to go on about how the iPhone is "crippled" or whatever because it doesn't have your pet feature. This is like complaining that a Honda Civic isn't a "full-fledged" car because it can't tow a trailer for your horses. Nobody cares!

Yes, such pet features as copy/paste, voice dialing and instant messanger.

The fact is that version1 of the iPhone is three years ahead of the curve in design, and two years+ behind in features. Mind you, the first generation of the iPod was quite a bit behind the curve in terms of mp3 players, but that didn't seem to stop it. iPod's had less storage capacity than the other hard drive units at the time, and still can't play all the file formats that were available to the original Creative Nomad. What it was, however, was 1/5th the size, and user friendly.

Within a year or so, Apple will have an iphone out which will have all the features that this one should have had. I imagine stuff like instant messanger is waiting for 3G, and they will implement video capture when their storage capacity goes up. Apple will continute to add features to the iphone as soon as they are able to miniturize them and keep their power consumption to acceptable levels.

On topic, the iPhone 'nano' will happen, but probably not right away. Belive it or not, there are people who don't want the internet on their phone. When Apple comes out with Revision 2 of the iPhone (Hopefully with 3G and 2x the storage capacity), they will probably also split the line with a smaller phone that JUST does phone features + plays music, with a few typical apple extras. The problem with this design from the start is that it has little advantage over standard phones like the media Razrs out there. That is why Apple needs to build its flagship line up before it comes out with it's stripped down version. Any 'Nano' phone will really not be a huge advantage over any other random cellphone featurewise, so they need it to be cooler than other cellphones.

PS. No way the phone will ONLY have the clickwheel. People would hate that. I could see a phone that opened up for a full keypad for dialing and texting, wtih the clickwheel as an option if you don't want to open it, but apple would never rely on JUST a clickwheel for the input on a device as complex as a phone.

techkidd4400
Jul 20, 2007, 09:59 AM
An iPhone with a rotary dialer and no touch screen? I have one word for those who give support to that rumor: gullible. Why not promote rumors that have at least a hint of potential validity.

An iPhone Nano rotary dialer is not only a ridiculous concept, but it is patently inconsistent with Apple's stated business objectives regarding the iPhone.

mpw
Jul 20, 2007, 10:58 AM
An iPhone with a rotary dialer and no touch screen?... ...Why not promote rumors that have at least a hint of potential validity.

An iPhone Nano rotary dialer is not only a ridiculous concept,...
I don't think the concept is that ridiculous actually.

If you think about the click-wheel on the iPod nano it would work well for phone navigation, at least as well as a standard keypad for actual telephone functionality.

Do I think it'll happen though? No. Shame though as an iPod nano sized iPhone would be more appealing to me than the larger iPhone which doesn't offer me the benefits I'd want from a large phone.

koobcamuk
Jul 20, 2007, 11:12 AM
Fair enough - it isn't the best of input methods. Then again, I've never texted before, so take my opinion with a grain of salt :p

More like a bucket of salt!

You can't text like that. No way.

Pierremaison
Jul 20, 2007, 11:14 AM
i wonder if you would be able to get one and use it in conjunction with your i phone - i would love to bring a tiny reciever running or to the gym, but still have it "connected" with my main phone, that would be cool.

For what purpose?

pkpkast
Jul 20, 2007, 11:21 AM
http://www4.macnn.com/macnn/nimagesii/app_070705_rotary.jpg


I have big doubts that this will be the iteration of input interface for this new iPhone. It makes it difficult to input text. Even if the numbers are also numbers. ie. pressing the number 2, 2 times = letter b.

Even the cheapest of cheapest cellphones have the letters that correspond to each number written above each number.

EXACTLY. OMFG people let the rotary dial go. It will NEVER happen.

EagerDragon
Jul 20, 2007, 11:22 AM
Seems to have been selling quite well so far.

The current iPhone is not crippled.

MrCrowbar
Jul 20, 2007, 12:02 PM
Some mockups.
http://tinyurl.com/27oaa5http://tinyurl.com/26bnqmhttp://tinyurl.com/2mg5fu

Azerty
Jul 20, 2007, 12:34 PM
An iPhone with a rotary dialer and no touch screen? I have one word for those who give support to that rumor: gullible. Why not promote rumors that have at least a hint of potential validity.

Who knows, stranger things have happended before. A $500 Mac? Ludicrous. A flash-memory-based iPod without a screen? Will never happen! Macs with Intel chips? Yeah, rrrright!

pkpkast
Jul 20, 2007, 12:43 PM
Who knows, stranger things have happended before. A $500 Mac? Ludicrous. A flash-memory-based iPod without a screen? Will never happen! Macs with Intel chips? Yeah, rrrright!

True, but those are all steps forward as a result of progress. Going back to rotary dialing is two steps backwards.

Now re-inventing a dialing scheme that utilizes the current scroll wheel is fine. But the actual physical motion of rotating to dial will NEVER happen.

EagerDragon
Jul 20, 2007, 01:01 PM
Anybody else think (hope) that might mean a CMDA model for Canada??

I'm thinking an iPhone Nano would be a great idea for any non-US markets (ie Canada) where the networks are different.

If Apple contacted the CDMA carriers in the USA, then the probably had at least one or two models working with that. So the technology / model probably already exist. That does not mean they will market it however.

Also I do not believe the iPhone nano rummor, if you see CDMA, it is likely another flavor of the same iPhone.

lamar777
Jul 20, 2007, 02:01 PM
i'd buy this if its touchscreen keyboard accepts stylus input device, otherwise i don't see how you can type on such a small screen with your finger.:eek:

Those icons are the same size as the ones on the iPhone I think texting in landscape would be easy...

nemaslov
Jul 20, 2007, 03:30 PM
What if ALL ipods in future will have phone capabilities?

Just as all the phone manufacturers seem to have been adding MP3 capabilities, Apple could do the opposite, and differentiate models by the depth of facilities.

Just a thought.

I would love an iPod that just plays music......but holds 120GB. My phone is a separate device..

winterspan
Jul 20, 2007, 04:50 PM
I also hear that Apple is going to make a Shuffle version of the iPhone too.

It's really cool. When you feel like making a call, it shuffles through all of your contacts and calls someone.


My god how many fricken times do I have to hear this lame ass nonsense?!?
The first time is was slightly funny, now you just sound stupid. stop it. seriously.

winterspan
Jul 20, 2007, 04:51 PM
Fair enough - it isn't the best of input methods. Then again, I've never texted before, so take my opinion with a grain of salt :p
You've honestly never typed out a text message on a keypad before?

winterspan
Jul 20, 2007, 05:27 PM
The reason I say this is because when you take away all of the features of the iPhone, and just make it a basic phone then it isn't an iPhone.

I don't think there is necessarily one fixed conceptual feature set of what makes an Iphone. I believe they will be able to easily sell an "iPhone Nano" of sorts that includes the basic music player functionality but that lacks email/internet access and targets the teen-college market. What will make it worthy of the 'iPhone' moniker will be the same as what makes any Apple product an Apple product.
It will be a marvel of hardware engineering and industrial design, outdone only by it's intelligent software that will give rise to an incredible user experience....

One point that has been made here a few times, that the iPhone is somewhat of a niche product is absolutely correct. Even though It will probably influence and increase the average price a buyer will pay for a cell phone (especially in America), Its useful to remember that that metric is still MUCH LOWER in the United States than in Europe and even more so in Asia. I read the actual statistic a while back, but I believe the average price point (retail) for a phone in the USA was under $100. (something on the order of 150 million cell phones)

So you can see truly how large a market Apple would miss if they didn't have a lower priced unit to compete with the RAZRs, Chocolates, Sony music phones, etc etc.....

Another thing to remember is that AT&T is ripping everyone off by tying them into the contract WITHOUT SUBSIDIZING THE iPHONE. Eventually, they'll have to give in and that'll bring the price of the iPhone down to 349.99 or So and open up the device ( and the potential iPhone nano) to MANY more people in the US market!

DakotaGuy
Jul 20, 2007, 05:28 PM
I'd love to see a CDMA and GSM version of an iPhone so everybody who wants one can get one, but I assume they will have to give into AT&T and give them another crazy 5 year exclusive contract on any new model that comes out.

There are millions of customers that live in areas with much better CDMA reception, however AT&T is not going to let anyone else have the iPhone.

Rocketman
Jul 20, 2007, 09:54 PM
An iPhone with a rotary dialer and no touch screen? I have one word for those who give support to that rumor: gullible. Why not promote rumors that have at least a hint of potential validity.

An iPhone Nano rotary dialer is not only a ridiculous concept, but it is patently inconsistent with Apple's stated business objectives regarding the iPhone.

1. If the "new nano" (which has the same NAND capacity as the iPhone) happens to have any phone capacity whatsoever, it could choose numbers via the click wheel at finger width resolution, or,

2. Could have a full screen capability, with touch screen and fulll video capacity and also virtual click wheel and micro-keyboard for IM. In short, everything, everywhere, all the time, at the lowest cost possible ($300+).

Apple stock might possibly be a buy. At $205.

Rocketman

cleanup
Jul 20, 2007, 10:05 PM
Physical rotary dial isn't coming.

They could pull off a clickwheel. Bang & Olufsen did something similar with physical buttons in a circular arrangement, and that old Nokia phone with the circular keypad (forget what it's called). Never used either, though, but I imagine a lot of people wouldn't want to switch to a whole new control scheme/layout. Even if it was cheap, if Apple forced me to use a clickwheel to text (jebus), I'd stick with Sony Ericsson.

I know Apple is all about innovation and blah blah blah, but sometimes you just need to create something simple that will appeal to the masses through other means (function, aesthetic, price, etc.). They did it with the iPod mini, and the Mac mini, why not the iPhone nano?

mpw
Jul 20, 2007, 10:09 PM
The current iPhone is not crippled.
So how do you pair BlueTooth with address book? Or include more than one URL in an email without having to type every one in, copy & paste?

OK omitting copy & paste functionality isn't crippling it, it's just missing the feature that most other 'real' smartphones have, but the BlueTooth functions have been crippled.

cleanup
Jul 20, 2007, 10:33 PM
http://fr.gizmodo.com/samsung_bang_and_olufsen-img_5514.jpg
http://www.s60.cz/f/s60/o/Telefony/3650/3650_01.jpg
Would you be willing to get used to those?

Genghis Khan
Jul 21, 2007, 05:36 AM
people

you do realise that the 'rotary' controls would be a step backwards, not forwards?

they are not used anymore for a reason...and i will bet anything you like that apple are not going to go retro for the sake of (dubious) looks at the cost of functionality

this is apple we're talking about


LET THE ROTARY iPHONE NANO GO!

Gymnut
Jul 21, 2007, 06:10 AM
Some mockups.
http://tinyurl.com/27oaa5http://tinyurl.com/26bnqmhttp://tinyurl.com/2mg5fu

I'd buy that but with the scale of the earbuds in relation to the phone, the phone would be tiny.

manwithaband
Jul 21, 2007, 08:07 AM
The click wheel works as a keyboard input device, if you make an on-screen letter wheel and manipulate it by spinning the click wheel with your finger then pushing the center button to input a letter. It's different but it works just fine once you get used to it.

That's what I'd do if I was Apple...

Can you imagine how slow SMS messaging would be on a phone with a click-wheel letter input device? The market for a phone like this includes most people who use text messaging frequently, and in the world of impatience that we live in, people aren't going to want to slowly input one letter at a time using a dial.

I don't see the click-wheel input design being very successful on a phone device because if you have ever used a rotary phone, then used a touch-tone phone, you'll realize how much faster input is on the latter.

I personally think this would be a very bad decision for Apple, and I don't see the phone selling very many units once people realized that text messaging will be so painstakingly slow....

nickane
Jul 21, 2007, 09:05 AM
http://fr.gizmodo.com/samsung_bang_and_olufsen-img_5514.jpg
http://www.s60.cz/f/s60/o/Telefony/3650/3650_01.jpg
Would you be willing to get used to those?

That's the nokia 3650. It flopped cos it was crap for texting and was swiftly replaced with the 3660 which is still available on amazon some 5 years later.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0002912PQ/ref=dp_image_0/103-8770859-8212613?ie=UTF8&n=301185&s=wireless

Both phones came out around the time when Nokia almost got knocked off the top spot marketshare wise by Samsung who burst onto the scene with precisely the kind of clamshell designs (that appealed to women with small handbags who care more about size than UIs) that Nokia had been resisting by sticking to "fun" designs aimed at kids like the 3650. They smartened up and started making more clamshells and slide designs so that their phones were more appealing to women who they'd originally won over with the same simple interfaces we identify with Apple but lost thru idiotic designs (like the 3650) where form and function weren't working in the harmony we associate with apple products. Last I heard, despite new competition from Sony Ericsson, Nokia's still topdog. There is no way Apple is gonna claim that throne by repeating any of their principal rival's mistakes just so they can keep your beloved f$*%ing clickwheel.

Whether or not you write text msgs, nothing is gonna change the fact that most ppl do. And, if you don't write text msgs, than you're going to have to take our word for it that apple will need an interface that is at least as good as a conventional keypad for text entry if they're going to sell any of these rumoured iphone nanos.

Counter
Jul 21, 2007, 09:19 AM
Q. A smaller iPhone introduced alongside the iPhone 1.0?

A. No.

DakotaGuy
Jul 21, 2007, 09:44 AM
people

you do realise that the 'rotary' controls would be a step backwards, not forwards?

they are not used anymore for a reason...and i will bet anything you like that apple are not going to go retro for the sake of (dubious) looks at the cost of functionality

this is apple we're talking about


LET THE ROTARY iPHONE NANO GO!

Next thing you know they will come out with an invention called a party line. It will be great however you will have to share your phone line with 4-6 of your neighbors.:D

If you know what a rotary dial phone is you probably know what a party line is. I remember the rotary dial when I was real young cause my grandma had one and so did we, however I don't remember the party line. That was before my time, but my dad still talks about it.

peters438
Jul 21, 2007, 10:24 AM
We all look at the word "click wheel" and we think the way its used today, but remember this macrumor a couple of days ago?

Apple Developing Backlit Trackpad?
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/07/16/illuminatedScrollWheel_300.gif

maybe this patent is being used in the iphone nano? It has the rotary display but is sensitive to touch. You just press the numbers around the click wheel. The light feedback can be used as a guide to know where you are pressing.

Just a thought.


Then it absolutely must include a Super Simon game! :)

lukashaaswasidk
Jul 22, 2007, 11:53 AM
EXACTLY. OMFG people let the rotary dial go. It will NEVER happen.

well... what if the numbers on the rotary could turn into letters? that would be interesting right? :apple:

Matteh117
Jul 23, 2007, 05:28 AM
Some mockups.<snip images>

QWERTY keyboard wouldn't work for the middle pictures IMO. Buttons are too phone like so you'd expect them to be ABC, DEF, GHI, etc.