PDA

View Full Version : Germans Believe U.S. Orchestrated 9/11


medea
Jul 24, 2003, 10:36 PM
One-third of Germans under age 30 believe the U.S. government may have sponsored the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington, according to a poll.
And about 20 percent of Germans in all age groups hold this view, according to a survey of 1,000 people conducted for the weekly Die Zeit.
The poll also said 68 percent of all Germans felt the media had not reported the full truth behind the attacks, in which some 3,000 people were killed when hijacked planes were crashed into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
After the September 11 attacks, there was an outpouring of sympathy from Germans for the United States. Despite misgivings, Germany joined a military campaign against the al Qaeda network that Washington blamed for the attacks.
But as the United States geared up for war against Iraq, relations soured as Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder expressed vocal opposition to the plans.
Although the United States took offense at Berlin's attitude, Schroeder's anti-war stance was popular in Germany and helped him to snatch victory in last September's elections.
Asked whether they believed the U.S. government could have ordered the September 11 attacks, 31 percent of those surveyed under the age of 30 answered "yes,'' while 19 percent overall gave the same answer.
Die Zeit said widespread disbelief about the reasons given by the United States for going to war in Iraq and suspicion about media coverage of the conflict had fostered a climate in which conspiracy theories flourished.
"The news is controlled,'' 17-year-old Kenny Donaubaur was quoted as saying. "You could see that in the Iraq war. It doesn't seem to me that you get the full truth.''

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe/07/24/german.poll.reut/index.html

zimv20
Jul 24, 2003, 10:49 PM
well that's quite a PR problem, isn't it?

jbomber
Jul 24, 2003, 11:10 PM
And I'm guessing the French will have whatever opinion the Germans give them...

pseudobrit
Jul 24, 2003, 11:32 PM
Well, I guess ignorance knows no borders, but to be fair to the Deutsche Volk, the US is apparently dumber because 51% think Saddam was responsible for 9/11.

At least Germany's not going to war with that misinformed population behind it.

zimv20
Jul 24, 2003, 11:36 PM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
the US is apparently dumber because 51% think Saddam was responsible for 9/11.


americans: ignorant
germans: cynical

Sayhey
Jul 24, 2003, 11:40 PM
It would seem to be a direct result of the loss of credibility from the Niger uranium scandel and the lack of any evidence for WMDs. Many people the world over will find it hard to believe anything this President says even around such an outrageous idea as the US government being behind 9/11.

macfan
Jul 25, 2003, 12:04 AM
If I remember the polls, they believed that in Europe well before the Niger incident. The "no plane in the Pentagon" was particularly popular in France.

It is a bit unfair to the Germans to take a poll result without looking at the question and the context within the poll. The attakcs "may" have been carried out by the US government? What percent chance do these answers represent? One could say the attacks may have been carried out by elements in the German government (after all, some of the hijackers lived in Germany for a time).

It is, of course, possible that 30 percent of Germans under 30 are simply fools, but that isn't very likely. More likely, as the article seems to imply, the anti Americanism on the part of political figures electoral politics in Germany (again, well before the Niger quote) account for the ridiculous opinions of some of our German allies on this matter. It is also possible that something is lost in the translation of the poll questions. There's a certain percentage of dumbass Americans who believe the same thing, so I wouldn't be too worked up.

IJ Reilly
Jul 25, 2003, 12:19 AM
You can get one out of five people to agree to almost any proposition, no matter how nutty. At least that many never read a newspaper, or make any other serious effort to comprehend the world around them.

Flowbee
Jul 25, 2003, 01:38 AM
Originally posted by jbomber
And I'm guessing the French will have whatever opinion the Germans give them...

Another completely off-topic dig at the French. Is this what passes for wit around here? :confused:

jbomber
Jul 25, 2003, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by Flowbee
Another completely off-topic dig at the French. Is this what passes for wit around here? :confused:

Oh calm down. Quit taking things so seriously. it's a discussion board....

wwworry
Jul 25, 2003, 07:07 AM
I think the US shot down the plane in Pennsylvania.

Rower_CPU
Jul 25, 2003, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by jbomber
Oh calm down. Quit taking things so seriously. it's a discussion board....

And that somehow makes it OK to take potshots at people?

Sorry, but MR isn't _that_ kind of discussion board.

bond003
Jul 25, 2003, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
And that somehow makes it OK to take potshots at people?

Sorry, but MR isn't _that_ kind of discussion board.

Right:rolleyes:

Lets stop taking potshots at Saddam since there are plenty who are offended by it, given he did nothing to deserve invasion of his country. And while we are at it, we better not criticize Bush either since it will offend or inflame the right wing posters.

jbomber
Jul 25, 2003, 10:56 AM
So let me get this straight...

it's ok for the germans to make comments about the americans, but it's completely wrong for me to make comments about the french?

that hardly seems fair....

zimv20
Jul 25, 2003, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by jbomber

it's ok for the germans to make comments about the americans, but it's completely wrong for me to make comments about the french?


earlier this year, a lot of people here were making french jokes. it got old and became verboten.

but i believe Rower was referring more to the comment you made to Flowbee.

Flowbee
Jul 25, 2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by jbomber
So let me get this straight...

it's ok for the germans to make comments about the americans, but it's completely wrong for me to make comments about the french?

that hardly seems fair....

My point was that this thread had nothing to do with the French. Your comment came completely out of left field and adds nothing to this conversation. If you want to seriously discuss German influence over the French, that's fine, start a thread about it. But your post was just a snarky little dig. Yes, we all know the French are an easy target for jokes... it just gets a little annoying seeing the same 'jokes' around here over and over and over...

Rower_CPU
Jul 25, 2003, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by jbomber
So let me get this straight...

it's ok for the germans to make comments about the americans, but it's completely wrong for me to make comments about the french?

that hardly seems fair....

But there aren't any Germans here making comments against Americans, are there? ;)

Last time I say this folks, it's in the rules (http://forums.macrumors.com/announcement.php?forumid=20): insults are not allowed, no matter who the source and/or target.

bond003-
BTW, nice to see you back "sanfeliovibond". Maybe you'll do better this time...

IJ Reilly
Jul 25, 2003, 12:28 PM
It may not always be possible to define an insult, but they're like pornography -- we all know them when we see them. So cut the moderator some slack here -- he's making a sincere effort to implement the board rules in a fair and even-handed fashion, and I for one think he's doing a fine job.

jbomber
Jul 25, 2003, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Flowbee
My point was that this thread had nothing to do with the French. Your comment came completely out of left field and adds nothing to this conversation. If you want to seriously discuss German influence over the French, that's fine, start a thread about it. But your post was just a snarky little dig. Yes, we all know the French are an easy target for jokes... it just gets a little annoying seeing the same 'jokes' around here over and over and over...


yeah, and it gets a little annoying to see the same high and mighty, righteous indignation over and over again.

to be perfectly honest, i feel like there's way too much oversensitivity regarding a lot of this stuff.

How come you're not considering that this thread itself could be potentially insulting and offensive to any number of people? The Germans who are essentially being painted with a broad brush. The Americans who don't want to see their government slandered. The people all over the world who lost loved ones on September 11th, some of whom are regulars on this board....

A passing comment like the one i made was in no way intended to be the venom-laced, international-incident-provoking barb you're making it out to be, and you know it.

jbomber
Jul 25, 2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by IJ Reilly
It may not always be possible to define an insult, but they're like pornography -- we all know them when we see them. So cut the moderator some slack here -- he's making a sincere effort to implement the board rules in a fair and even-handed fashion, and I for one think he's doing a fine job.

I'm not coming down on the Mods. I know they have a hard job trying to keep things sane in here. I just don't think people need to turn every little comment into a full-blown production.

zimv20
Jul 25, 2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by jbomber
I just don't think people need to turn every little comment into a full-blown production.

WHAT?!??!?!

j/k

Flowbee
Jul 25, 2003, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by jbomber

A passing comment like the one i made was in no way intended to be the venom-laced, international-incident-provoking barb you're making it out to be, and you know it.

No, if you actually read my posts, my main complaint is that your initial comment was completely off topic and didn't add anything to this discussion.

jbomber
Jul 25, 2003, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Flowbee
No, if you actually read my posts, my main complaint is that your initial comment was completely off topic and didn't add anything to this discussion.


riiiiiiight. the threads always stay on topic. :rolleyes:

Rower_CPU
Jul 25, 2003, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by jbomber
riiiiiiight. the threads always stay on topic. :rolleyes:

For the most part, yes. If not - CLOSED.