iChat AV Beta Build 112 [Archive]

MacRumors

Jul 25, 2003, 12:14 AM

Apple continues to work on iChat AV Beta revisions, and is privately testing Build 112.

The latest build provides some bug fixes and small enhancements, but no major new features. Reports indicate there are still some stability issues and camera recognition issues. One reported feature is a menu option to easily place a user that you are chatting with into your Block list.

iChat AV 1.0 Final is due later this year and will be included with Mac OS X Panther. Jaguar users will be able to purchase the final version for $29.95.

imaswitcheryeah

Jul 25, 2003, 12:35 AM

Awesome... they really need to work on a few bugs... AND ADD AUTO-REPLY FOR CHRISTS SAKE!!!!

jimthorn

Jul 25, 2003, 12:45 AM

Does anyone know if any of the beta builds are going to be publicly available, like the occasional Safari betas were? I hope we don't have to wait until the final...

Nermal

Jul 25, 2003, 01:03 AM

I don't use iChat much, and have never used the AV features, but it's good to know that they're working on it and improving it.

I assumed this was a public update, I ran Software Update and it didn't give me anything, but since I don't use it much I didn't bother looking on the iChat website. But I guess you've already looked there?

arn

Jul 25, 2003, 01:12 AM

nope... not a public version.

(I added "private" to the article)

arn

Huked on Fonick

Jul 25, 2003, 01:42 AM

I chat needs alot of work, it should still be in beta, ichat AV isent much better but at least they made it so u type more than 1 line at a time

xmad

Jul 25, 2003, 01:47 AM

Will Jaguar users who spent $150 on an iSight have to pay the 30 for iChat AV?

arn

Jul 25, 2003, 01:48 AM

Originally posted by xmad
Will Jaguar users who spent $150 on an iSight have to pay the 30 for iChat AV?

seems so

arn

canucknyc

Jul 25, 2003, 02:34 AM

Is there anything we can do. Just bought 2 isights and now I find out I'll have to pay for iChat av?
That sound like it will piss some people off, including me.

AhmedFaisal

Jul 25, 2003, 03:21 AM

... that's what iChat AV is at the moment. Until Apple gets it into their thick skulls that having a Mac Only Video Chat solution renders it virtually useless I am not buying iChat AV and I am going to demand a 30$ discount for Panther. Out of all the IM Providers Apple choose AOL just the one that is legally shunned by the FCC to include Video Chatting in their messenger. Until that FCC ruling gets reverted (and that will take aeons) AOL will not have Video Chat and iChat will not be able to do Video Communication with 95% of the computer world. Good job Steve :rolleyes: !

Ahmed:mad:

Nebrie

Jul 25, 2003, 03:48 AM

Originally posted by AhmedFaisal
... that's what iChat AV is at the moment. Until Apple gets it into their thick skulls that having a Mac Only Video Chat solution renders it virtually useless I am not buying iChat AV and I am going to demand a 30$ discount for Panther. Out of all the IM Providers Apple choose AOL just the one that is legally shunned by the FCC to include Video Chatting in their messenger. Until that FCC ruling gets reverted (and that will take aeons) AOL will not have Video Chat and iChat will not be able to do Video Communication with 95% of the computer world. Good job Steve :rolleyes: !

Ahmed:mad:

So you think it would be better if they went with ultra-propietary, archrival MSN? Or puny pathetic Yahoo? Or some IM service we've never heard of? Yeah, that'll fly.

Apple is using an open standard that is free and they've announced that they'll help anyone willing to use it. You wanna top that?

Also, go read up on what AOL actually has to do to get Video Conferencing and the announcements that it's actually working on it. Until then, stop blaming everyone else for your problems.

AhmedFaisal

Jul 25, 2003, 04:04 AM

AhmedFaisal

Jul 25, 2003, 04:10 AM

Originally posted by Nebrie
So you think it would be better if they went with ultra-propietary, archrival MSN? Or puny pathetic Yahoo? Or some IM service we've never heard of? Yeah, that'll fly.

Apple is using an open standard that is free and they've announced that they'll help anyone willing to use it. You wanna top that?

Also, go read up on what AOL actually has to do to get Video Conferencing and the announcements that it's actually working on it. Until then, stop blaming everyone else for your problems.

http://www.instantmessagingplanet.com/public/article.php/2184811

Read yourself. At the moment they are not allowed to do it, doing it within their AOL software already is already going against the FCC ruling and will not help them very much when they try to convince the FCC to overturn it.

Fact is that at the moment there is 2 major IM Services that use VC on Windows, which ist MSN & Yahoo! those are established and everybody uses it. Neither will switch to use Apple's great but useless standard just to please Apple. Also basically none of the PC users will switch to yet another IM client so they can VC with the 3-5% folks out there that happen to have a Mac, they will tell them to use Yahoo! or MSN (which unfortunately doesn't have VC on the Mac). If VC were something new the situation would be different, but it is not, Apple is the late starter in this thing so they should stick to what is already established, which is MSN or Yahoo, especially since MSN is built into Windows. Instead of developing their little island solution they should have talked to MS about letting them write a compatible Chat client. The AV Feature is great but it comes into an already established, saturated market so I can predict that nobody will use it besides Apple and even AOL might not if they ever get the FCC ruling overturned.

Ahmed

sandsl

Jul 25, 2003, 06:23 AM

Apple doesn't need to get permission or "work with" Microsoft to get a MSN compatible video conferencing client working - there is already an open source, although not brilliant, program that lets Mac users video conference with PC users who use NetMeeting.

So the point is Apple chose not to use a compatible service with the competition. The reason is obivous: quality. All the other major video conferencing solutions including NetMeeting, MSN and Yahoo use crappy video codecs compared to what Apple is using for iChat.

Its pretty clear to me that Apple set out to make the best quality solution (like they do with everything) and don't intend to stop Mac users Video conferencing to PC users - its just one of the down falls of using a better, newer codec.

theranch

Jul 25, 2003, 06:33 AM

We need to be able to use iChat AV on a G3 based machine! We have a new ibook that is loaded but can't use the new iChat AV even though the installer's required system says we can (Apple later changed this on their site). It works great on my G4 though! We use it weekly and find it a great communication tool....now I don't waste money on long distance calls to family members.

gopher

Jul 25, 2003, 07:54 AM

Originally posted by theranch
We need to be able to use iChat AV on a G3 based machine! We have a new ibook that is loaded but can't use the new iChat AV even though the installer's required system says we can (Apple later changed this on their site). It works great on my G4 though! We use it weekly and find it a great communication tool....now I don't waste money on long distance calls to family members.

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/20203

This software allows USB cams and older G3s to use iChat.

AppleMatt

Jul 25, 2003, 08:06 AM

Shall we bring this discussion back to the iChat AV beta? There's no point fighting.

Feel the love.

I'd actually like all the bugs fixed before they go adding new features. Although iChat isn't feature-full, I think bugs are a higher priority (yes I saw one line typing as a bug)

Also...poor iSight/Jaguar users. Maybe Steve will come up with something, that is quite harsh. I'll be upgrading to Panther, but that's another $129. So it's;

Jaguar - $129
iSight - $149
iChat - $29.95
=======
Total - 307.95

Or, if you upgrade to Panther instead...$407. Ouch.

AppleMatt

fabsgwu

Jul 25, 2003, 08:07 AM

I still don't understand why iChat leaves out some pretty basic, and in my opinion, essential features found in AIM. For example, allowing a group view--I've gotten used to associating certain buddies with a certain position on my buddy list (as I have like 175 buddies). Also, I would like easier ways to get info and add buddies.

Most of all, I miss the profile found in AIM. Life just isn't the same if I can't link my website and put random quotes in my profile!

________
EDIT:

Also, what about Alerts like AIM, but not just regular alerts--something "innovative" like msn-style pop-ups... (did I just say msn and innovative in the same sentence?)

iJon

Jul 25, 2003, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by AhmedFaisal
... that's what iChat AV is at the moment. Until Apple gets it into their thick skulls that having a Mac Only Video Chat solution renders it virtually useless I am not buying iChat AV and I am going to demand a 30$ discount for Panther. Out of all the IM Providers Apple choose AOL just the one that is legally shunned by the FCC to include Video Chatting in their messenger. Until that FCC ruling gets reverted (and that will take aeons) AOL will not have Video Chat and iChat will not be able to do Video Communication with 95% of the computer world. Good job Steve :rolleyes: !

Ahmed:mad:
whiner whiner whiner. why dont you get it through your head, apple always does this. they treat their mac users to their incredible stuff (imagine that :rolleyes: ). if everything works well and better than though, a windows version will follow, just like the ipod. oh and let me know how that demand goes with panther, im sure they will be happy to meet your demands :rolleyes:.

iJon

cbrantly

Jul 25, 2003, 09:16 AM

Have you used iChat AV? It does support groups.

Kid Red

Jul 25, 2003, 09:18 AM

Wow, I'm a little surprised and disappointed that it's going to cost $30. So is Apple setting a standard here-that all new iApps will cost?

AhmedFaisal

Jul 25, 2003, 09:25 AM

Originally posted by sandsl
Apple doesn't need to get permission or "work with" Microsoft to get a MSN compatible video conferencing client working - there is already an open source, although not brilliant, program that lets Mac users video conference with PC users who use NetMeeting.

Do you have an URL for that? What's the prog called?
Cheers,

Ahmed

iJon

Jul 25, 2003, 09:39 AM

Originally posted by Kid Red
Wow, I'm a little surprised and disappointed that it's going to cost $30. So is Apple setting a standard here-that all new iApps will cost? its called marketing, people will instead buy panther most likely. for as powerful as ichat av and how much fun it is with an isight i would gladly pay 30 for it. i dont think apple is setting a standard for charging. they have given us imovie, iphoto, idvd, itunes, ical, isync, ichat which i glady use all day. and they give it to us free on top of a kick ass OS. now they are giving us ichat av free with a another kick ass OS or for a small fee of 30 dollars. if you use this to talk to people over the country or world it will pay for itself not having to use long distance. its truly a remarkable program and is incredible what apple is doing, i thik 30 is more than fair.

iJon

Potus

Jul 25, 2003, 09:51 AM

I've not been successful w/ iChat. In fact IM has been gone from my life since I left AOL completely two years ago (oh happy day!). Would like to be able to use it but somehow doesn't seem worth the effort. Willing to work with it if y'all think it's worthwhile...

killmoms

Jul 25, 2003, 10:00 AM

I like some things about iChat, but it's going to be hard to leave Trillian behind when I get my PowerBook. I haven't yet found a messenger client that I've been more happy with.

Mostly, I wish iChat could do raw text logging, not prettied up HTML proprietary format stuff. I have 15 or so MB in AIM chat logs from Trillian over the last year and a half and don't want to lose them.

Profiles would be nice too.

--Matt

sandsl

Jul 25, 2003, 11:00 AM

The NetMeeting compatible Mac client is called ohPhoneX and can be downloaded from any of the mirrors on the following page.

Its not a perfect app, it doesn't look great, but it does allow Mac users to video conference with PC NetMeeting/MSN friends.

http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/xmeeting/ohphoneX-0.1b.dmg?download

Capt Underpants

Jul 25, 2003, 11:05 AM

Let's hope that they don't rush iChat AV into Panther, and have an even buggier revision than the last one. That reminds me of something. Oh yeah, Safari. Let's not have the good go bad again.

jcontonio

Jul 25, 2003, 11:17 AM

Did any of you actually watch the keynote? iChat won't cost a thing with Panther, but for Jaguar users it will cost 29.99.

Do some research before you post.

stingerman

Jul 25, 2003, 11:18 AM

Originally posted by Capt Underpants
Let's hope that they don't rush iChat AV into Panther, and have an even buggier revision than the last one. That reminds me of something. Oh yeah, Safari. Let's not have the good go bad again.

The last Safari beta was great and 1.0 on both Jaguar and Panther work wonderfully. At least for me and I browse the Internet maybe 8-12 hours a day as part of my job... Safari on the Mac and Firebird on XP, IMO the best browsers today. I use my Mac now 90% of the time.

stingerman

Jul 25, 2003, 11:22 AM

I'm glad that Apple is using public standards as part of iChat AV. In fact their Audio standard is the same used on cell phones and actually sounds clearer with an Internet connection. This means that Apple could theoretically release an iChat AV to Wireless and plain old phone link. That would be pretty cool and would replace the need for a local phone line or two.

They are using SIP for initiating, controlling and managing connections. This is the current best of breed and is an automatic fit for VOIP (voice/video over IP). For those who feel that iChat AV is an Island, take a closer look at the standards Apple is employing and that should paint the entire picture for you of iChat AV future.

srobert

Jul 25, 2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by stingerman
For those who feel that iChat AV is an Island, take a closer look at the standards Apple is employing and that should paint the entire picture for you of iChat AV future.

Amen! Your last argument just made me switch camp, from the sceptics to the believers. Let's hope you're onto something.

Seb

Cabrewolf

Jul 25, 2003, 12:39 PM

I'm just very upset that we have to pay for this stuff. I bought the computer, everything else should be free. I mean seriously first it's 29.99 for ichat, which is unfair now that I am hooked on the beta and use it to totally transform the way my company works; they want me to buy this thing. Next it will be expose, they actually expect me to get Panther to get expose and other features. It should be free, I should not have to buy panther to get Expose. Further how dare they expect me to buy panther to get the panther features; I bought a mac i should get the panther features for free with-ought having to buy it... HMMM I am starting to see a problem with the way i am thinking.

Maybe the only reason people are upset is because apple went out of its way to make a portion of panther backwards compatible and now this effort is rewarded by demands for it to be free. If expose was backwards compatible would you demand it for free, etc.

People work hard to make this type of software for apple to survive they have to charge for a large portion of there products; deal with it.

Wolf

xmad

Jul 25, 2003, 12:49 PM

I don't have a problem with Apple charging $30 for ichat. I just don't think it is right for them to charge $30 for people who bought an iSight.

daveL

Jul 25, 2003, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by xmad
I don't have a problem with Apple charging $30 for ichat. I just don't think it is right for them to charge $30 for people who bought an iSight.
Simple solution: Buy Panther and get iChatAV for free. Between Panther's performance improvements and added features, it's worth every penny.

iJon

Jul 25, 2003, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by daveL
Simple solution: Buy Panther and get iChatAV for free. Between Panther's performance improvements and added features, it's worth every penny.
thats dumb, thats not the point he is making. we know panther will probably be good, some people dont want to shell out 129 for it. what he is saying is that a good product should come with software to run it, but basically to use his isight he needs to at least spend 180 dollars, or he can spend 250 dollars. for some people its a big price jump, for others its chump change, it all depends how much a dollar is worth to you.

iJon

jaedreth

Jul 25, 2003, 01:23 PM

Apple is hedging its bets, and pretty well.

Who would pay $29 for the full version of iChat AV?

1) Those who aren't crafty enough to keep using the public beta until Panther ships.

2) Those who don't plan to upgrade to Panther.

If iChat AV 1.0 isn't released until Panther is released, then that kinda negates #1.

Basically, Apple is not expecting you to actually buy it separately, Apple wants you to buy Panther.

If you're one of those non-early adopters, and you don't want to update to Panther until a few revisions later, then why are you using beta software in the first place?

But for those customers, you can pay $29.95 and get your very on iChatAV. But I'm not going to buy it. I'm gonna sink my money into Panther. *Then* I'll buy an iSight.

Jaedreth

Dahl

Jul 25, 2003, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by jaedreth
But I'm not going to buy it. I'm gonna sink my money into Panther. *Then* I'll buy an iSight.

Me too. :)
Besides, you will probably be able to get Panther for $90-100 when it comes out, Jaguar could be bought for $90 for a while. I except some deals similar to that with Panther. Too bad it might be a coupon/rebate thing.

theranch

Jul 25, 2003, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by gopher
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/20203

This software allows USB cams and older G3s to use iChat.
USB...who wants that? We have a miniDV firewire cam.

mgescuro

Jul 25, 2003, 04:44 PM

You don't have to use iSight. You can use ANY FireWire based camera. Furthermore, you don't have to use iChat!! You can use YahooMessenger's video program too!!! Sheeesh.

That's 2/3rds of the most popular IM programs.

Sheesh.

Originally posted by AhmedFaisal
... that's what iChat AV is at the moment. Until Apple gets it into their thick skulls that having a Mac Only Video Chat solution renders it virtually useless I am not buying iChat AV and I am going to demand a 30$ discount for Panther. Out of all the IM Providers Apple choose AOL just the one that is legally shunned by the FCC to include Video Chatting in their messenger. Until that FCC ruling gets reverted (and that will take aeons) AOL will not have Video Chat and iChat will not be able to do Video Communication with 95% of the computer world. Good job Steve :rolleyes: !

Ahmed:mad:

[mod. edit - Insults are not tolerated. First and only warning.]

jaedreth

Jul 25, 2003, 04:59 PM

But I don't want a third party camera, or yahoo messanger. I want iChat AV and iSight. And I want Panther. And I want it now! *joking, I'll wait patiently*

Jaedreth

tychay

Jul 25, 2003, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by xmad
I don't have a problem with Apple charging $30 for ichat. I just don't think it is right for them to charge $30 for people who bought an iSight.

Your iSight works fine without iChatAV (try any 3rd party videoconferencing app like Yahoo Messenger!). And iChatAV works fine without iSight (actually, the video coming out of my friend's DV camera is better than iSight when doing iChatAV, but the iSight is comparable if I use QuickTime Broadcaster or EvoCam and adjust for the color cast).

Also, Apple has been very up-front of the pricing with respect to iChatAV. As a previous poster mentioned, Apple made it very clear since it was launched, that this is a Beta that will cost $30 in Jaguar and be free with Panther. Also many people have noted (indeed it was the first thing I noticed about the iSight when I purchased it) that it didn't come with any software--not even a beta of iChatAV. I can only imagine this was to further emphasize the distinction between the two. (Heck, in Job's Keynote, he introduced them about 30 minutes apart.)

If price was honestly an issue, you would have gotten a budget fixed-focus camera like an iBot and paid $30 for iChatAV with money to spare. I don't know why there is this sense of entitlement with respect to iChatAV software, you can easily remove the beta and go back to iChat from within the application itself. For non-AV software, there is a wealth of 3rd party options.

For myself, I'm glad. It shows a commitment to Jaguar that is missing during the 10.1 to 10.2 migration. For instance, can I get the latest Java for 10.1? There is a commitment not to force people to upgrade to Panther when no such thing existed for Jaguar. Even as the open architecture of iChatAV audio-video protocol leaves room for 3rd party products on Mac as well as Windows and Linux versions made by 3rd party vendors.

Of course, I'm biased because I'll probably get Panther when I renew my developer subscription. But then again, I'll be paying a lot more than $130 ($90 if you look around or are a student).

Take care,

terry

msxgames

Sep 17, 2003, 04:43 AM

Originally posted by mgescuro
[B]You don't have to use iSight. You can use ANY FireWire based camera. Furthermore, you don't have to use iChat!! You can use YahooMessenger's video program too!!! Sheeesh.

That's 2/3rds of the most popular IM programs.

I don't see the use of doing Video conferencing when there is no sound (ref. Yahoo Messenger) - and why the heck does iChat not support USB cams if it's not for Apple making $$$ with its overpriced iSight.
Lastly, what's the use of iChat if you can't even communicate with friends on PC (98% of the the world).

Well, my opinion is very simple - stick with a 'cheap' USB cams and pray Yahoo Messenger Mac will have audio built-in soon. In the meantime stick with iVisit or OhphoneX that work fine for Mac-Mac or Mac-PC video conferencing.
Apple is like Microsoft, only $$$ matter. I just try to think different.

sucafrutpi

Sep 17, 2003, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by msxgames
I don't see the use of doing Video conferencing when there is no sound (ref. Yahoo Messenger) - and why the heck does iChat not support USB cams if it's not for Apple making $$$ with its overpriced iSight.
Lastly, what's the use of iChat if you can't even communicate with friends on PC (98% of the the world).

Well, my opinion is very simple - stick with a 'cheap' USB cams and pray Yahoo Messenger Mac will have audio built-in soon. In the meantime stick with iVisit or OhphoneX that work fine for Mac-Mac or Mac-PC video conferencing.
Apple is like Microsoft, only $$$ matter. I just try to think different.

there are 3rd party firewire webcams. it is probably a bandwidth issue; they might have felt that the 12 mbps usb 1.1 wasn't enough for the uncompressed video going to the comp, i don't know. the res on yahoo messenger is weak too. 300X200 video is just sad in this day and age. i have isight and love it...but i wish ichat worked with pc users too. when i bought it the ppl at the applestore told me there was some freeware online that would allow mac users to vid chat to pc's. if it exists, i haven't found it.

G5isAlive

Sep 18, 2003, 09:30 AM

I haven't used iSight much but I dusted it off to use iChat AV beta (public) with the new 15 powerbook runing 10.2.7 with a friend with the same config... and its not working. Neither one of us sees the request to chat. Comments? I have had it working before with other people.

theranch

Nov 1, 2003, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by mgescuro
You don't have to use iSight. You can use ANY FireWire based camera. Furthermore, you don't have to use iChat!! You can use YahooMessenger's video program too!!! Sheeesh.

That's 2/3rds of the most popular IM programs.

Sheesh.

The funny thing is...well it's really not funny but... I bought Panther today and our new Sony DV TR33 cam STILL does NOT work with iChat A/V on our 10 month old 800mhz iBook! This sucks! The beta version said it would work with this iBook and that was wrong so we filed a bug report so that they were aware of the problem.
Now we buy Panther for all of the new features hoping that we would get a bonus by getting iChat A/V to finally work with this firewire cam...no dice.
We're disappointed.