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MacRumors
Jul 22, 2007, 08:19 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With the recent claim (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/19/iphone-nano-for-real/) that an iPhone Nano is truly in the works, speculation points to possible designs for a miniaturized design.

Hrmph consolidates (http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/144/the-iphone-nano-closer-than-you-think) recent iPod/iPhone patent applications which depict what appears to be a click-wheel iPhone design:


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/07/22/iphonenano_300.jpg


They go on to describe methods for dialing and text entry with the click wheel. What's most interesting about the depicted images is that they closely resemble an artist rendition (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/09/13/apples-phone-revealed/) of the purported iPhone prior to its launch in January. The September 2006 report came from reliable sources who had reportedly seen the device in person. After the iPhone was revealed in January, we assumed the report was simply wrong or a product of Apple's misinformation efforts surrounding the iPhone. However, if both phones have been in development for some time, this could still represent what the rumored iPhone Nano might look like.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/22/iphone-nano-design-possibilites/)



mrchainsaw5757
Jul 22, 2007, 08:22 PM
I still dont know about using the click wheel to dial numbers, i think that might be kind of weird. But definatly different. i cant wait to see the new iphone nano or whatever and the new ipod.

CalBoy
Jul 22, 2007, 08:24 PM
The click wheel will not be used for dialing. It's just too weird and uncomfortable. What's more likeley is an all touch screen device that has less storage and limited internet capabilities compared with the iPhone.

JonHimself
Jul 22, 2007, 08:26 PM
I still dont know about using the click wheel to dial numbers, i think that might be kind of weird. But definatly different. i cant wait to see the new iphone nano or whatever and the new ipod.

The original mock-up of this style also said that the click wheel slide down to reveal a traditional keypad. So perhaps the click wheel is used for most of the navigation (and making calls from your addres book, history, etc) but if needed (for texting or for phone dialing) the keypad is under the click wheel... seems pretty cool to me as I agree, the click wheel would be difficult to dial with and would make texting almost impossible

cgray24
Jul 22, 2007, 08:27 PM
The click wheel will not be used for dialing. It's just too weird and uncomfortable. What's more likeley is an all touch screen device that has less storage and limited internet capabilities compared with the iPhone.

It would seem they are staying away from touch screens to reduce cost. I dont doubt one bit this could come out without a touch screen at all.

Spock
Jul 22, 2007, 08:29 PM
Well, forget dialing with that thing, texting and email would be a nightmare!

nimbuscloud
Jul 22, 2007, 08:31 PM
As much as I love Apple, it would be a bad idea to have people DIAL AND TEXT WITH A CLICK WHEEL!!! I think that they are just covering bases, but I hope they don't think that it is a good idea. It's not user friendly AT ALL.

:apple:

CalBoy
Jul 22, 2007, 08:32 PM
It would seem they are staying away from touch screens to reduce cost. I dont doubt one bit this could come out without a touch screen at all.

Not using touch screen might actually cost more. Apple put down a lot of money to create the touch screen behind iPhone. All that R&D represents invested time and money. Using the technology to sell more units is the logical way to pay off all those R&D costs. Also, no one is going to buy a phone for $300 if it doesn't have touch screen or smartphone features. Remember that this is a rumor now. Even if it is out by December, the phone has to be able to compete with other phones on the market. It has to bring something new to the table. A rotary phone without touchscreen doesn't bring anything new to the table.

rockthecasbah
Jul 22, 2007, 08:33 PM
The rotary dialing is a load of bull. If the iPhone Nano is actually true, it's probably a slider with the click wheel on the front and then if you slide that up it reveals a small keypad, no way they would do that with texting and stuff that people use cell phones for.

Gymnut
Jul 22, 2007, 08:33 PM
Upon first glance, it would seem to be a bit confusing to dial and to input text into this thing, which would be a step backwards in comparison to the full sized iPhone.

Spizzo
Jul 22, 2007, 08:34 PM
http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/07/22/iphonenano_300.jpg



Looking at the images in the right of the pic, it looks like the numbers would be given a spot on the click wheel, like the old rotary phones, and you would just click each number as required. And if you miss clicked, I bet you could just hold it down and scroll...

Shouldn't be too hard to dial.

CalBoy
Jul 22, 2007, 08:35 PM
The rotary dialing is a load of bull. If the iPhone Nano is actually true, it's probably a slider with the click wheel on the front and then if you slide that up it reveals a small keypad, no way they would do that with texting and stuff that people use cell phones for.

There are a dozen phones like that already in the market. Apple always brings something new to the table. I'm sorry, but if the iPhone Nano is real, it is going to impress us all somehow (even if it doesn't cook dinner:p)

viperguy
Jul 22, 2007, 08:35 PM
Well, forget dialing with that thing, texting and email would be a nightmare!

I agree with you!
Scrool wheels are for iPods, not for texting or doing complex activities!

toughboy
Jul 22, 2007, 08:35 PM
Apple seems to forget the people who still send SMS messages :) :apple:

cleanup
Jul 22, 2007, 08:38 PM
As much as I love Apple, it would be a bad idea to have people DIAL AND TEXT WITH A CLICK WHEEL!!! I think that they are just covering bases, but I hope they don't think that it is a good idea. It's not user friendly AT ALL.

:apple:

I agree. It was already a risky step forcing people to "trust" iPhone's predictive text... now they have to force you to trust it (it's a slightly different system... you see the predictions onscreen) as well as use a new input method. People are definitely going to be turned off by that, no matter how nice the phone looks. It's just like the whole "There's no right click on Macs" thing. People don't want to approach and learn something radically new or different, at least not without a lot of hesitation.

But in comparison to the right click thing, this is big. This is fundamentally changing the way you use the device, and I don't think many people will be too happy with that.

Not only is there no keypad, but there's no softkeys. I imagine the Prev/Next buttons will act as those, but then what about music playback? Isn't this thing supposed to have an iPod in it?

I mean, I'm all for Apple being different, but that different? No touchscreen, fine, at least make it cheap, but GIVE IT A REGULAR KEYPAD! :mad:

I'll be sticking with Sony Ericsson. Lets hope the next iPod is touchscreen.

j/k/Andy
Jul 22, 2007, 08:41 PM
please, please be true, a sub $300 ipod phone would sky rocket aapl

chabig
Jul 22, 2007, 08:42 PM
Typing with a click wheel reminds me of the old Dymo Labelmaker.

puckhead193
Jul 22, 2007, 08:44 PM
or they can just work on a next gen of the current one to incorporate 3g for europe... i mean the states, then i can have an 'awesomeness' phone:D

JeffTL
Jul 22, 2007, 08:46 PM
The numbers aren't in the order of a customary rotary phone, which is counterclockwise. Confusing.

macflurry
Jul 22, 2007, 08:47 PM
it kinda looks like a zune

macintel4me
Jul 22, 2007, 08:49 PM
Well, forget dialing with that thing, texting and email would be a nightmare!

I don't think if an iPhone Nano were to be launched that it would have full email capability. SMS is a different story, however. I could see a virtual keypad using the click-wheel which would hit roughly the same usability threshold as a typical phone keypad.

Dialing 95% of the time would be done through your contacts so the click-wheel wouldn't be an issue.

Hmmm...
iPod Nano - 8GB = $199
iPhone Nano - 8GB = $299
iPhone - 4GB = $499
iPhone - 8GB = $599

So is $300 worth a better UI, WiFi, Web Browsing, a bigger screen, video and possibly mail? Actually $300 is the exact price point of a typical SmartPhone.

Teddy's
Jul 22, 2007, 08:54 PM
Horrible, Isn't It?

CalBoy
Jul 22, 2007, 08:56 PM
Dialing 95% of the time would be done through your contacts so the click-wheel wouldn't be an issue.

Hmmm...
iPod Nano - 8GB = $199
iPhone Nano - 8GB = $299
iPhone - 4GB = $499
iPhone - 8GB = $599

True, 95% of the time, you don't need to punch in the number. However, for that 5% of the time, it's a real pain in the a$$. Still not worth having a click wheel keypad in my opinion.

Your pricing scheme is a bit off to me. I think the iPhone base would move up to 8GB, and the higher end model would be 16GB.

ghall
Jul 22, 2007, 08:56 PM
Looks like the worst phone design on the planet. I can't see Apple ever making anything like this, and if they ever do, then I'll have lost my faith in them.

MacFly123
Jul 22, 2007, 08:56 PM
Apple seems to forget the people who still send SMS messages :) :apple:

Ha, you mean MMS??? That's the only reason I haven't gotten the iPhone yet. I am waiting till they add MMS texting. Only like one of my friends has a smart phone with email, so I can't exactly email pics to them :mad:

P.S. I've tried all that email it to their number@carrier.com and whatever and I still haven't been able to get the attatched images to show up! :mad:

I'd appreciate any help if anyone knows something I don't!

ki-goi
Jul 22, 2007, 08:57 PM
i think the scroll wheel with be a touchscreen and will change the controls that appear on it as you change modes. that would be the most fun.

Zwhaler
Jul 22, 2007, 08:59 PM
Wirelessly posted (LGE-VX9900/1.0 UP.Browser/6.2.3.2 (GUI) MMP/2.0)

I cant imagine using a click wheel to dial numbers... perhaps it is a design for a future ipod rather than a phone.

cleanup
Jul 22, 2007, 09:00 PM
I could see a virtual keypad using the click-wheel which would hit roughly the same usability threshold as a typical phone keypad.


... How?

I don't know about others, but I text with my thumbs. Both of them. I can type quite fast. A clickwheel can only register one point of contact at a time, and I imagine that I've got to rotate it quite a bit to select a letter, especially the first one or two in a word. I imagine in the time it would take me to enter in 2 letters on the clickwheel, I would've been able to have typed an entire word on my Sony Ericsson.

mwxiao
Jul 22, 2007, 09:03 PM
Looking at the images in the right of the pic, it looks like the numbers would be given a spot on the click wheel, like the old rotary phones, and you would just click each number as required. And if you miss clicked, I bet you could just hold it down and scroll...

Shouldn't be too hard to dial.

If (If!) it comes with click wheel, this is the only possible way to dial.

Actually it seems interesting, just like old times...

cleanup
Jul 22, 2007, 09:05 PM
Also, I'm confused, why are people saying that a nano-size form factor is too small for a touchscreen? I think it's great. The nano form factor has more than enough room for a keypad, d-pad, and a small screen. If there was a touchscreen all you would have to implement in terms of space is a keypad.

macintel4me
Jul 22, 2007, 09:05 PM
it kinda looks like a zune

Not really. Just take the iPod Nano and stretch the screen vertically and move the click-wheel down a bit. That's far from a Zune.

JonHimself
Jul 22, 2007, 09:10 PM
Not really. Just take the iPod Nano and stretch the screen vertically and move the click-wheel down a bit. That's far from a Zune.

That's pretty much exactly how the the Zune looks (doesn't function the same because it's not a click wheel)... unless you were being sarcastic.

dominatrix
Jul 22, 2007, 09:11 PM
this looks like the new 6G ipod more than iphone nano
:D

dfnj123
Jul 22, 2007, 09:17 PM
look what i found...

http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/sms.jpg
http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/144/the-iphone-nano-closer-than-you-think

n-abounds
Jul 22, 2007, 09:25 PM
Two wheels. Both on the touch-screen. Half for the letters A-M, half for N-Z.

Rocketman
Jul 22, 2007, 09:26 PM
I am sorry I do not have the cite, but one official Apple comment (discussed on macrumors mainpages) said they developed the sub-price Apple phone concurrently with the iPhone.

Rocketman

Rocketman
Jul 22, 2007, 09:31 PM
If (If!) it comes with click wheel, this is the only possible way to dial.

Actually it seems interesting, just like old times...

Favorites?

Random spots along the click wheel which is now touch sensitive with a firmware upgrade.

I still like rotary dial phones. They work in power outages reliably and do not suffer from data loss, dropouts, or Chinese sniffing.

Rocketman

rockthecasbah
Jul 22, 2007, 09:32 PM
There are a dozen phones like that already in the market. Apple always brings something new to the table. I'm sorry, but if the iPhone Nano is real, it is going to impress us all somehow (even if it doesn't cook dinner:p)

1. There aren't dozens of phones on the market with an iPod click wheel.


2. New doesn't take precedent over ease of use. Rotary dialing is a step backward about 50 years, and making a phone that is cool looking but difficult to use won't yield Apple quality products. Apple makes easy to use, innovative products, rotary dialing is a complete contradiction to their entire philosophy of product design.

mickeymikey
Jul 22, 2007, 09:33 PM
Apple, like many companies, patent so many things that they never use. In part this is to hinder competitive offerings. In my opinion, all of the recent patent findings are just this. Dialing, etc. is just a natural extension of what the click-wheel is used for today. So, patenting it just seems obvious, but do they intend to use the patents, I don't think so.

As many of you mentioned, text messaging (a key feature to Apple's intended market) would be more difficult than on a standard keypad.

Abstract
Jul 22, 2007, 09:41 PM
Shouldn't be too hard to dial.

Compared to other phones, yes it would, and also be slower and less accurate.



This is a bad idea. In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is one of the worst ideas ever.




So is $300 worth a better UI, WiFi, Web Browsing, a bigger screen, video and possibly mail? Actually $300 is the exact price point of a typical SmartPhone.

How do you get the impression that this phone will have a "better" UI, web browsing, bigger screen, or email? You can't even type, let alone control a pointer and browse the web.

Texas04
Jul 22, 2007, 09:53 PM
*Waits for Apple Legal to make MR take down this post...*
:confused::rolleyes:

But cool none the less!

stoid
Jul 22, 2007, 09:55 PM
I think that it makes most sense for the device front to be half click wheel and half touch sensitive screen. For dialing numbers, the screen would show the digits, like the regular iPhone.

Not sure about text messages though…

cleanup
Jul 22, 2007, 09:55 PM
Just made this in Photoshop.

Not a multi-touch screen, just a touch-screen, with a clickwheel for misc. navigation.

Basically no gestures, just a basic touchscreen to keep the cost down. A virtual keypad for both dialling and texting (basically like a standard cellphone).

I think this would be nice, yeah?

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6969/iphonenanocr5.jpg

cleanup
Jul 22, 2007, 09:57 PM
I think that it makes most sense for the device front to be half click wheel and half touch sensitive screen. For dialing numbers, the screen would show the digits, like the regular iPhone.

Not sure about text messages though…

See my post above. :)

A virtual keypad could fit on a nano-size form factor. As for texting, don't put a full-fledged QWERTY keyboard up there, but leave the virtual keypad, like in traditional texting, and just use T9 or iTAP, what most consumers are used to. It'll fit, and it'll work just fine.

Porchland
Jul 22, 2007, 10:03 PM
What's more likeley is an all touch screen device that has less storage and limited internet capabilities compared with the iPhone.

What would "limited internet capabilities" look like? No flash? :D:D:D

nimbuscloud
Jul 22, 2007, 10:03 PM
Just made this in Photoshop.

Not a multi-touch screen, just a touch-screen, with a clickwheel for misc. navigation.

Basically no gestures, just a basic touchscreen to keep the cost down.

I think this would be nice, yeah?

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6969/iphonenanocr5.jpg

That's actually pretty interesting. But still, no way would I want to use that as a phone. Seems too hard to use, no matter how Jobs sugar coat it. It'd be best to make a smaller iPhone without WiFi and apps versus that.

:apple:

Abstract
Jul 22, 2007, 10:04 PM
Just made this in Photoshop.

Not a multi-touch screen, just a touch-screen, with a clickwheel for misc. navigation.

Basically no gestures, just a basic touchscreen to keep the cost down.

I think this would be nice, yeah?

http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/6969/iphonenanocr5.jpg

Yes, THAT is possible. A number pad on that touch-screen would make this more realistic. I don't care if I have to send text messages the old fashioned way using the number pad. Just don't make people use the click-wheel.

I doubt that Apple would be stupid enough to make a rotary-style phone, but with the numbers going the wrong way.

cleanup
Jul 22, 2007, 10:07 PM
Yes, THAT is possible. A number pad on that touch-screen would make this more realistic. I don't care if I have to send text messages the old fashioned way using the number pad. Just don't make people use the click-wheel.

I doubt that Apple would be stupid enough to make a rotary-style phone, but with the numbers going the wrong way.

I don't think you can fit a QWERTY keyboard on it. The iPhone is already cramped.

The keypad is doable, though. And so just keep using a numeric keypad for texting, with 3-4 letters/characters on each key, like a normal phone. It works just fine, most people are used to it, and it fits the space. Apple can also continue to use their predictive text technology. Word suggestions can be chosen either by touching them or by scrolling to them with the clickwheel.

Porchland
Jul 22, 2007, 10:14 PM
look what i found...

http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/sms.jpg
http://hrmpf.com/wordpress/144/the-iphone-nano-closer-than-you-think

This looks TOO complicated.

I don't have a guess one way or the other whether Apple will ditch the click wheel, but it does feel like a great concept that has reached its limitations.

The click wheel is great for drilling two or three levels into a menu, but multi-touch is a generational leap that I hope to see Apple adopt up and down the iPhone/iPod line.

aswitcher
Jul 22, 2007, 10:18 PM
I figure that this iPhone Nano will again be GPRS.

As for dialing, I think it has to have a touch screen or a slid out standard keypad. I know the patent suggests otherwise but what about emergency calls if you have to use a wheel - too tricky I think. And SMS is pretty big, and would be a huge deal breaker for a good chunk of the youth market.

And I am hoping that Apple do a world wide release not locked down with this new model.

lou2000
Jul 22, 2007, 10:22 PM
Personally i don't think this is going to happen. But I'm a huge ipod user (about an hour a day) and a tiny cell phone user ( maybe 5 minutes a day) . i usually end up carrying my ipod and my cell phone wherever i go. In the winter I don't mind cause i got jacket pockets but in the summer I sometimes just leave the cell phone home. I think it looks dorky to wear an ipod and a cell phone on my belt. I wouldn't mind having an ipod that can make calls. i never text and i hardly ever dial. i just answer calls, call people back or use my contacts. So if i could get a prepaid plan this would make sense to me but I don't think there are that many people just like me. Most people use their phones a lot and their ipods a little.

twoodcc
Jul 22, 2007, 10:27 PM
i guess it's possible, but i doubt it

JonHimself
Jul 22, 2007, 10:47 PM
I posted this in like the third or forth message but even after reading everyone's comments I still think what was in the original MR post makes the most sense. A basic iPod front, except an elongated screen/squished click wheel. The click wheel is used to navigate everything (photos, contacts, music player, etc) and then a keypad is underneath it (maybe a slider, maybe a little flip.. some way of puting it behind the click wheel) for dialing, entering in contacts, editing phone numbers, etc. This could either be a basic 12-key pad or a full qwerty slider on the side (then also making use of the accelorometer to flip the screen if you're using the keypad)... either option would work, but if they're really pushing a "basic" phone, i'd say the 12-key option is most likely

Digital Skunk
Jul 22, 2007, 10:51 PM
This idea sucks.

- No one will ever see a 16GB iPhone at $600 anytime soon so stop smoking
- The iPhone Nano will fail if it isn't just as good or better than the iPhone, and if it is on Cingular's network
- The price on the iPhone won't come down until it is sold around the world for at least a few months, stop holding your wallets, if you want one go get it.
- Click wheels on phone are so last century. That is a step backwards and will never EVER happen because it is just stupid.
- The iPhone nano may not be out for at least another year.

A Pittarelli
Jul 22, 2007, 11:08 PM
the click wheel dialing looks ridiculous

bobber205
Jul 22, 2007, 11:13 PM
This is something I would buy! :D

kenaustus
Jul 22, 2007, 11:21 PM
I think everyone is assuming that smaller iPhone will be the size of the iPod nano. I think it will only be a little bit smaller than the iPhone and that the basic design will be very similar. Sort of similar to the iPod mini, but less of a shrink. There is simply too much to put into one when you include the phone parts, iPod parts, battery, OS X etc.

I think that the major debate during its development was wether or not to include internet access. We'll see how that debate turns out when the product is released.

aswitcher
Jul 22, 2007, 11:27 PM
I reviewed the video again and on the World Clock screen it has a "Screen Lock" function. This thing is touch screen.

ywshang
Jul 22, 2007, 11:31 PM
Such a rumor is just ridiculously stupid. More ridiculously, many seem to buy it. Forget the click wheel. Despite all the love to it, it's gone in the history for good!

heved
Jul 22, 2007, 11:38 PM
Looking at the images in the right of the pic, it looks like the numbers would be given a spot on the click wheel, like the old rotary phones, and you would just click each number as required. And if you miss clicked, I bet you could just hold it down and scroll...

Shouldn't be too hard to dial.

This could be genius... I wonder if it will incorporate a clickwheel that lights up where you touch it. http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/16/apple-developing-backlit-trackpad/

http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/07/16/illuminatedScrollWheel_300.gif

If the screen and the click wheel provided feedback it would be especially easy to make selections just by releasing your finger.

ddrueckhammer
Jul 23, 2007, 12:08 AM
I would love an iPhone Nano, as I have played with the normal iPhone and they are just too big for me...IMO, it feels like holding a dinner plate up to your ear....

Also, I do like the internet but don't really need it that badly, so basically I want an iPhone Nano 2nd Gen that can make calls and text message. Either way, I don't mind dialing with a click wheel but I think they will need to implement a full querty keyboard in order to get my purchase, as I don't even like the 2 letters per key implementation on the Blackberry Pearl...To do this, I would guess they either need a slide out (to the side?) keyboard or a full touch screen.

Why would the touch screen be too small for a full keyboard? Could they not just make it so that you text with it sideways?

I also agree that it doesn't make much sense not to put in the multi-touch screen (a smaller version), as they spent a ton to develop it...

The other thing is they need to keep the anodized colored aluminum casing on the Nanos as I'm sure that they sell better than other designs might so a full touch screen makes more sense than any slide out keyboard, even if they have to go back up in size to something of iPod Mini proportions...

iTone
Jul 23, 2007, 12:14 AM
i'm kind of amused by the thought of this actually existing. i think it would be pretty neat. i wouldn't mind learning a new way to dial or text. i'm pretty fast learner. :p

MrCrowbar
Jul 23, 2007, 01:20 AM
I'm still for the primitive touch screen (no multi-touch, screen is too small for 2 fingers...) and T9 texting like this:

http://tinyurl.com/2vv7xj

Or consider this: the iPhone has no MMS. Since the nano version of it will certainly be more limited, ot could be it has no SMS, so a standard clickwheel to scroll through your address book contacts would do the job. But omitting SMS is seriously a bad move.

Lixivial
Jul 23, 2007, 02:01 AM
I reviewed the video again and on the World Clock screen it has a "Screen Lock" function. This thing is touch screen.

The current level of iPods have this functionality as well. It's the combination the user must enter to unlock the iPod.

EDIT: I'm not certain which video you're referring to.

aswitcher
Jul 23, 2007, 02:15 AM
The current level of iPods have this functionality as well. It's the combination the user must enter to unlock the iPod.

EDIT: I'm not certain which video you're referring to.

The video of the leaked features.

Ah, owning only a 3rd gen I did not realise this. Mmm. Hopefully it will be touchscreen but this raises some doubt.

offwidafairies
Jul 23, 2007, 02:19 AM
it looks disgraceful and i dont get how something so small can function properly. i currently have a tiny phone and i find texting a pain coz the keys are too small.

OS X Dude
Jul 23, 2007, 02:50 AM
Looks a little Zune-esque if you ask me... maybe the iPhone Nano has been in design for longer and M$ copied the design - like they did with the touchscreen technology in "Surfaces".

Klian
Jul 23, 2007, 04:10 AM
It looks like the clickwheel would adopt different interface... one interface if you are using it like an iPod and a different interface if you are using like phone mode:
http://www.appleblog.es/wp-content/ishot-7.jpg

http://www.appleblog.es/index.php/2007/07/17/ipod-con-telefono-nuevo-iphone-nano/

robPOD
Jul 23, 2007, 04:26 AM
What ever happenend to FCC approval?

aswitcher
Jul 23, 2007, 04:28 AM
What ever happenend to FCC approval?

True unless is a non-USA release...

raykhrud
Jul 23, 2007, 05:02 AM
Do you know why I will stick to my old-fashioned iPod 5G anyway? Because I can control it, while it is in my pocket. Can I control iPhone such way? No!

cleanup
Jul 23, 2007, 05:09 AM
Do you know why I will stick to my old-fashioned iPod 5G anyway? Because I can control it, while it is in my pocket. Can I control iPhone such way? No!

We're talking about the iPhone nano, not the next iPod. Two completely different products. When you use a phone, you USUALLY (:rolleyes:) have to pull it out of your pocket/purse/bag and look at it, unless you voice dial using a headset, and then touchscreen is irrelevent.

timmillwood
Jul 23, 2007, 05:19 AM
I agree with you!
Scrool wheels are for iPods, not for texting or doing complex activities!

I thought exactly the same thing first time i saw this

aswitcher
Jul 23, 2007, 07:08 AM
While iThink that the iPhone will have far less features as the pappa bear iPhone, i do think that is will have rotary dialing as a secondary option. This just seems like the sort of thing that is a great marketing move, i mean, wouldn't you like to see that?

http://ThunkDifferent.com :apple:

http://www.t3.co.uk/__data/assets/fp_auto_layout_image/679608/varieties/4.jpg

photo: artist rendition

Nice one. If that comes to Oz before the iPhone I will probably get one - especially if it comes without a plan.

SamIchi
Jul 23, 2007, 07:16 AM
I wouldn't buy a phone with a click wheel, akward.

How about a dual screen type of deal? Slide out phone with one touchscreen. Slide to reveal a touch screen.

jouster
Jul 23, 2007, 07:24 AM
Also, I'm confused, why are people saying that a nano-size form factor is too small for a touchscreen? I think it's great. The nano form factor has more than enough room for a keypad, d-pad, and a small screen. If there was a touchscreen all you would have to implement in terms of space is a keypad.

I took it to mean that there is not enough space inside the device for all the necessary components.

I am sorry I do not have the cite, but one official Apple comment (discussed on macrumors mainpages) said they developed the sub-price Apple phone concurrently with the iPhone.

Rocketman

Apple has made no official comments about any future iPhones.

thesdx
Jul 23, 2007, 07:38 AM
Remember the backlit trackpad rumor? I think that the clickwheel would dynamically change depending on what you were doing. For example, if you were dialing a phone number, the click wheel would change to all numbers. Here's the patent:

Project
Jul 23, 2007, 07:55 AM
Who do I trust more to come up with the best UI for a nano iphone that size.

Apple or...... Mac Rumors forum members?

Hmm.

MACmeMACyou
Jul 23, 2007, 08:12 AM
Easy people easy....

is there a reason why folks get a little pissy about an apple product that is only RUMORED to come out looking the way these so called experts said it would..... sheesh.

jst my two lincolns....

Anyways, my vision for this iPhone nano would be a shruken down version of the iphone.

It will have the click wheel when the ipod is in use.....but if you want to make a phone call the click wheel will be replaced by numbers.... AND IT'S ALL TOUCH SCREEN baby.

I'm sure there are phones that have similar dimensions as the nano... i'm sure APPLE of all companies can make it happen.

--------- save me jebus

Nym
Jul 23, 2007, 08:23 AM
Exactly, what I know from Apple's design team, I'm pretty confident that the iPhone Nano will be 100% touchscreen. I don't know how they're gonna do it but, I'm sure it'll be great, in fact, where's that one time where Apple's Industrial Design Team let you down? :)

spinko
Jul 23, 2007, 08:51 AM
I don't think Apple will come out with yet another type of interface anyways. The obvious thing to do woud be to have a screen about the size of the device (even if it is a little more expensive) and just use a "light" version of the OS that is on the current iPhone. All in all, I guess it would be less expensive to maintain the code and more appealing to potential buyers.


my 2cts

Teddy's
Jul 23, 2007, 10:23 AM
Who do I trust more to come up with the best UI for a nano iphone that size.

Apple or...... Mac Rumors forum members?

Hmm.

(the-drunk-loud-girl-at-the party laugh)
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

funny

thejadedmonkey
Jul 23, 2007, 10:51 AM
As long as it comes without a contract I'll be happy!

RichP
Jul 23, 2007, 11:06 AM
The multifunction/dynamic clickwheel seems like the most viable option for an iphone "nano" A non-multitouch touchscreen is really going a step backwards, I had phones like that, and is not a very apple-like way to work. Ill have some blind apple-fanboi trust here and either these patents represent something that works well, OR, they are diversion tactics/trying to lock up possible tech directions so no one else can use them.

In addition, we are talking about a product that will cost about 1/2 the iphone, it will need to differentiate itself from the iphone significantly. It will have ipod, phone, text, and take pictures, that will be about it. Its strength will be in music and contact management and sync'ing to the comp. Other phones STILL dont sync the way an ipod does for music, that is still a novel feature.

Antares
Jul 23, 2007, 11:29 AM
That thing must be huge. Look at how small the hand is in comparison to the device! Also, dialing will probably be just as easy as with an old rotary phone. It's been many, many years, though, since I've used one of them.

grappler
Jul 23, 2007, 11:48 AM
I doubt they'd call a device looking like that a 'nano' - it doesn't look terribly small.

hayesk
Jul 23, 2007, 12:10 PM
As long as it comes without a contract I'll be happy!

Why? The iPhone can't be used with other providers, so unless you plan on stop using the iPhone in less than two years, who cares if it has a contract.

Regardless, could this simply be a patent for an iPhone prototype? It could be a rejected design for the original iPhone.

fastbite
Jul 23, 2007, 02:09 PM
The point is that the iphone is a phone etc etc with ipod inside. But this is more an ipod with phone functionality. AND the click wheel is king on the ipod. You can operated even through cloth, with out having to look at it etc. So if the phone part is secondary I believe they may go for such a design. Then again, what do I know...

wolfpackfan
Jul 23, 2007, 02:30 PM
I'd like to throw my 2 cents worth in. IMO if the iPod Nano (or whatever) doesn't provide the basics that most low-end phones do these days, Apple will not sell very many. Specifically my wife's Moto Razr has phone, camera, text messaging, Gmail and basic WAP web access. If these features are not found on the cheaper iPhone I don't believe a lot of folks will buy it, even if it does have iPod features.

Orng
Jul 23, 2007, 03:02 PM
I think I'm going to hold out for the iPhone Shuffle. Just press the dial button and it calls a random friend! Who will it call today? Will it match your mood? Will it be someone you want to talk to, or someone you probably should talk to?

I hope they make an orange one.

F.D.
Jul 23, 2007, 03:12 PM
This is just nonesense. Use your heads. What's being suggested here is that Apple go to two and a half year's trouble creating something as sexy and startling, and as hyped as the iPhone. AND THEN THEY FOLLOW IT UP WITH A PHONE WITH A SODDING TINY SCREEN AND A CLICKWHEEL??!!!

No.

F.D.
Jul 23, 2007, 03:14 PM
I think I'm going to hold out for the iPhone Shuffle. Just press the dial button and it calls a random friend! Who will it call today? Will it match your mood? Will it be someone you want to talk to, or someone you probably should talk to?

I hope they make an orange one.

Well said fella

Orng
Jul 23, 2007, 03:17 PM
This is just nonesense. Use your heads. What's being suggested here is that Apple go to two and a half year's trouble creating something as sexy and startling, and as hyped as the iPhone. AND THEN THEY FOLLOW IT UP WITH A PHONE WITH A SODDING TINY SCREEN AND A CLICKWHEEL??!!!


My previous joke comment notwithstanding, this is exactly how I initially felt about the iPod shuffle. But now i have an iPod shuffle (2nd gen, colour) and it's perfect for what I need it for.

F.D.
Jul 23, 2007, 03:27 PM
My previous joke comment notwithstanding, this is exactly how I initially felt about the iPod shuffle. But now i have an iPod shuffle (2nd gen, colour) and it's perfect for what I need it for.

Yes, and there are a hundred and two established mobile phone manufacturers who are already making the phone equivalent of an iPod shuffle. Apple did NOT spend as much time and money as it has done on the R and D of the iPhone to then take the wind out of its sails with a mediocre piece of crap that looks exactly like the product they are so blatently moving away from.

Look. The NEW iPod will have an interface like the iPhone music interface. There is no doubt that that is how Apple HAVE to go. They created the new benchmark WITH THE iPhone!

You really think they're gonna make a phone that looks like the OLD iPod after wowing the world with the iPhone we've been waiting bloody ages to see?

Does anyone around here understand the word ANTICLIMAX???!!!

Orng
Jul 23, 2007, 03:28 PM
My previous joke comment notwithstanding, this is exactly how I initially felt about the iPod shuffle. But now i have an iPod shuffle (2nd gen, colour) and it's perfect for what I need it for.

And by this I mean, some people, like me, are commenting on a forum, and some people are making a living as an Apple designer, and I expect that a: they're probably not the same people (but maybe, who knows) and b: one of these groups of people is likely to do a better job designing an iPhone nano than the other.
Personally, I'd like the next iMac to look like a giant sideways iPhone on a stand, but that's why I'm in video production, not computer design, isn't it?

AidenShaw
Jul 23, 2007, 07:05 PM
....in fact, where's that one time where Apple's Industrial Design Team let you down? :)

That gawd-awful chin on the iMac G5/ iMacIntel ??

cleanup
Jul 23, 2007, 08:01 PM
That gawd-awful chin on the iMac G5/ iMacIntel ??

It's not god-awful. I think most people liked the design. I sure do.

peharri
Jul 24, 2007, 08:32 AM
Yes, and there are a hundred and two established mobile phone manufacturers who are already making the phone equivalent of an iPod shuffle. Apple did NOT spend as much time and money as it has done on the R and D of the iPhone to then take the wind out of its sails with a mediocre piece of crap that looks exactly like the product they are so blatently moving away from.


Well, now hold on there. Nobody's suggesting the iPhone nano would have the iPod shuffle's interface. The question is whether it'll have a clickwheel based interface, which is a tried and tested and extremely popular iPod technology - arguably it's what made the iPod so popular in the first place.

The iPhone interface is optimal for a large unit used for web browsing and watching movies. It isn't, from what I can see, as good as the iPod when it comes to listening to music. Close, perhaps, but the iPod's clickwheel is relatively optimal for non-visual use. Imperfect in some ways, but when it comes to changing the volume, clicking to the next track (or beginning of the current one, or previous one), pausing, unpausing, etc, you can't really get much better.

Advocating that a smaller iPhone should have the iPhone interface requires at least some justification beyond "The current interface is a 'mediocre piece of crap'" (tens of millions of iPod users would disagree with you on that one), or "That's where Apple is heading anyway". How would the iPhone interface improve upon the iPod interface for the iPod's primary purpose of listening to music? Would the presence of a clickwheel in some way undermine the iPhone nano's ability to be a phone, thus forcing the use of a touchscreen-only UI?


Does anyone around here understand the word ANTICLIMAX???!!!

I'm conservative when it comes to UI changes. There are many features I've seen added over the years that have caused no end of trouble and made computers less easy to use and understand. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

In this case, an interesting new UI is being apparently advocated for a device it would appear to be wholly unsuited for. As it is, with the lack of voice control or other forms of non-visual control on the iPhone, I'm not even convinced the iPhone is the "perfect" device its advocates pretend it is. It's a little like going back to 1984, and seeing the first Macintosh, in a sea of DOS clones. Because back then the Macintosh may have been revolutionary, but it also sucked. It was badly lacking in functionality. A small vocal minority loved it, and a large vocal group wanted to nothing to do with it.

Over time, that was fixed. The technologies were developed by Apple and others, and everyone started to get an idea of what computers should do and how to integrate the advances made by different groups with different needs into something close to an universal ideal. Companies like Commodore-Amiga, Acorn, Digital Research, and even Microsoft, did amazing things that ultimately made the concept of the GUI viable.

So don't get me wrong. When I'm saying the iPhone doesn't appear to be as perfect as its claimed, I'm not saying that the technologies that make it up are bad. But they're absolutely not fully developed yet. It'll take time before we can start to throw systems based upon it upon everything.

An iPhone nano with a multitouch UI may be fun, but it's unquestionably not an optimal platform for such a UI, not in its current state. If the device is supposed to be just an MP3 player married to a cellphone, the device is over-engineered in the wrong direction, and lacking in basic usability in others, if it goes the "all touchscreen, all the time" route.

The clickwheel's a great interface, don't knock it.

F.D.
Jul 24, 2007, 09:39 AM
Well, now hold on there. Nobody's suggesting the iPhone nano would have the iPod shuffle's interface. The question is whether it'll have a clickwheel based interface, which is a tried and tested and extremely popular iPod technology - arguably it's what made the iPod so popular in the first place.

The iPhone interface is optimal for a large unit used for web browsing and watching movies. It isn't, from what I can see, as good as the iPod when it comes to listening to music. Close, perhaps, but the iPod's clickwheel is relatively optimal for non-visual use. Imperfect in some ways, but when it comes to changing the volume, clicking to the next track (or beginning of the current one, or previous one), pausing, unpausing, etc, you can't really get much better.

Advocating that a smaller iPhone should have the iPhone interface requires at least some justification beyond "The current interface is a 'mediocre piece of crap'" (tens of millions of iPod users would disagree with you on that one), or "That's where Apple is heading anyway". How would the iPhone interface improve upon the iPod interface for the iPod's primary purpose of listening to music? Would the presence of a clickwheel in some way undermine the iPhone nano's ability to be a phone, thus forcing the use of a touchscreen-only UI?



I'm conservative when it comes to UI changes. There are many features I've seen added over the years that have caused no end of trouble and made computers less easy to use and understand. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

In this case, an interesting new UI is being apparently advocated for a device it would appear to be wholly unsuited for. As it is, with the lack of voice control or other forms of non-visual control on the iPhone, I'm not even convinced the iPhone is the "perfect" device its advocates pretend it is. It's a little like going back to 1984, and seeing the first Macintosh, in a sea of DOS clones. Because back then the Macintosh may have been revolutionary, but it also sucked. It was badly lacking in functionality. A small vocal minority loved it, and a large vocal group wanted to nothing to do with it.

Over time, that was fixed. The technologies were developed by Apple and others, and everyone started to get an idea of what computers should do and how to integrate the advances made by different groups with different needs into something close to an universal ideal. Companies like Commodore-Amiga, Acorn, Digital Research, and even Microsoft, did amazing things that ultimately made the concept of the GUI viable.

So don't get me wrong. When I'm saying the iPhone doesn't appear to be as perfect as its claimed, I'm not saying that the technologies that make it up are bad. But they're absolutely not fully developed yet. It'll take time before we can start to throw systems based upon it upon everything.

An iPhone nano with a multitouch UI may be fun, but it's unquestionably not an optimal platform for such a UI, not in its current state. If the device is supposed to be just an MP3 player married to a cellphone, the device is over-engineered in the wrong direction, and lacking in basic usability in others, if it goes the "all touchscreen, all the time" route.

The clickwheel's a great interface, don't knock it.

I didn't knock it. I'm just pointing out that Apple are hardly going to introduce a product with a new interface only to introduce a cut-down version of that product with what looks like an old interface.

After seeing the iPhone do you seriously think the future of the iPod is going to be the clickwheel?

Don't panic
Jul 24, 2007, 09:40 AM
people should see the iphoneNano as un upgraded nano, with some phone capabilities.
i have no use for an iphone. it would be overkill for me.
i would have use for a nano that also makes (and, especially, receives) phone calls and allows me to send/read the occasional sms.
i think the clickwheel input would be great for that. As long as it works well AS A PHONE (reception, stability), i couldn't care less if it's a tidy slower in sending sms (which i bet it won't with practice).

one last point.
if and when this is released, apple will have it tested extensively.
it won't be released in an "unusable" form.

zac4mac
Jul 25, 2007, 09:06 AM
The reason the G3 iPod didn't do well is that you can't run it by feel.

The touch screen of the iPhone is perfect for a VIDEO POD.
The Click-wheel is perfect for Audio iPods. I don't even have music on my iPhone, just a movie and some TV shows.

The design has to fit the function or you wind up with a zune.

Z

Orng
Jul 25, 2007, 02:51 PM
The reason the G3 iPod didn't do well is that you can't run it by feel.

The touch screen of the iPhone is perfect for a VIDEO POD.
The Click-wheel is perfect for Audio iPods. I don't even have music on my iPhone, just a movie and some TV shows.

The design has to fit the function or you wind up with a zune.

Z

Exactly, no point in a touch screen if you need to operate it blind. I'd hate to have to look at my iPod, i'd break my neck everytime I wanted to skip a song at the gym. Although when I'm not at the gym, I'll sometimes stare at it and get mesmerized by the pretty colour and elegant design...... so orange....

F.D.
Aug 2, 2007, 05:42 PM
The reason the G3 iPod didn't do well is that you can't run it by feel.
Z

When did we decide the 3G iPod didn't do so well?!

The 3G iPod was the iPod that made it big. I remember having to wait a month for mine as demand was outstripping supply so much.

Digital Skunk
Aug 4, 2007, 04:39 PM
I said it before and I will say it again...

Just give me an Apple phone without cingular and I will be happy.