I can't decide Xbox 360 Elite or a PS3 [Archive] - Page 2

diamond.g

Dec 14, 2007, 10:32 AM

Nint£ndo? Doesn't really work does it. It's hard to call them M$ when they're paying billions of them $'s to fix these 360's.

diamond.g - There's no point in posting NDP data anymore. You can predict the order in which the systems will be.

Btw my PSP will be here on the 21st. THE TWENTY FIRST :(damn Paypal and it's "clearing".

The sad thing is so many people expected the PS3 to do better than what it did, considering the price drop. Software differences are insane though. COD4 sole 1.5 million units on the 360 while <500k on the PS3. Exclusives to the PS3 are doing horribly.

Not what anyone was expecting two years ago.

sethypoo

Dec 14, 2007, 10:43 AM

I purchased a 360 about a month ago, and I love it! I got Xbox Live, Halo 3, Viva Pinata, as well as the two pack in games, Forza 2 and Marvel Ultimate Alliance.

I love Halo 3. I still suck, but I'm ranking up quickly in online matches. Forza 2 is surprisingly good for a pack in game, but Marvel kinda sucks. Viva Pinata is a good chill out game.

If the OP hasn't purchased yet, I would vote for the 360. Wait for more games and more price drops from the PS3. The 360 is where it's at.

Oh, I also purchased Connect360 (http://www.nullriver.com/index/products/connect360), and with the new Fall Update for the Xbox, I can stream all my DivX and Xvid movies from my Mac to my 360 in my living room! Very sweet, I think.

Dagless

Dec 14, 2007, 10:50 AM

Not what anyone was expecting two years ago.

Speak for yourself ;)
Even my "Sony/MS fans will disregard the Wii and say it's for casual gamers only" prediction came true!

I am surprised to see it not doing as well now though, what with the price drops and people on forums making the games sound like the second coming. The cheapest model here has dropped £130. £50 off the price of a Wii! They just need to accelerate some of these "killer apps" like Home. They're competing against the 360 for it's online component, not the Wii.

diamond.g

Dec 14, 2007, 11:10 AM

Speak for yourself ;)
Even my "Sony/MS fans will disregard the Wii and say it's for casual gamers only" prediction came true!

I am surprised to see it not doing as well now though, what with the price drops and people on forums making the games sound like the second coming. The cheapest model here has dropped £130. £50 off the price of a Wii! They just need to accelerate some of these "killer apps" like Home. They're competing against the 360 for it's online component, not the Wii.

I figured the Wii would do well. I just didn't think Sony would slip so much in NA. They are doing well in rest of the world though.

Curren~Sea

Dec 14, 2007, 11:13 AM

Chewbacca is a Wookiee...
:) That was vaguely familiar to me but I had to google it, heh. Thanks for the laugh! We are talking about games here...

How hard is it to compare game graphics? You plop one dvd in and look. Take it out. Plop a different dvd in the other console and look. I wasn't talking about game depth which I would assume goes to ME, although I have heard people finish it in 14 hours. I have no idea how far along I am in Uncharted but it seems like I have a lot of Rewards left to accomplish. I have about 8 hours in so far. It is completely linear, no question. But again I wasn't referring to the game depth or design, just the graphics of those two particular games.

Wait for more games and more price drops from the PS3.
This is the kind of advice that is not germane as of Dec 2007. The PS3 is already less expensive feature for feature and it has plenty of great titles already available. Do you need 200 games at 50+ each or do you need several excellent games in every genre? I don't know how much time people have to play, but for me a few great games will last me months.

But please come back and tell me how Blu-Ray and WiFi are requirements of playing a video game. Or don't, because they're not. .Well... partly true and partly not true. If you want to play wireless which is probably most of us, your price of the 360 just went up (due to having to buy the add-on wifi component) to match the price of the PS3 (which also includes the high def dvd player). Secondly, there are many people who like the fact that just one machine and one connection to the TV will do games, normal dvd's, and high definition dvd's. It's a great way to simplify.

As for M$ vs. $ony... I think that the work MS has done on the xbox overall is very good. They have poured billions into it and they are doing what seems to be their best to make it a compelling platform. They dropped the ball on manufacturing of the 360, however, as the 33% failure rate proves. Sony dropped the ball on the PS3 launch, obviously, and they are trying hard to catch up. Clearly, there is enough room in this space for all players. Based on my own research and hands-on testing the PS3 is a better platform for me and I am extremely happy and satisfied. Originally, I had a strong bias against the PS3 because of it's failure to launch. In retrospect, that was a costly bias as I have now concluded that the PS3 fits my needs much better than the 360.

flopticalcube

Dec 14, 2007, 11:23 AM

Regarding the NPD data, I notice that the PS2 is still outselling the PS3. Any comments on this (other than it being super cheap)?

Dagless

Dec 14, 2007, 11:27 AM

:) That was vaguely familiar to me but I had to google it, heh. Thanks for the laugh! We are talking about games here...

How hard is it to compare game graphics? You plop one dvd in and look. Take it out. Plop a different dvd in the other console and look. I wasn't talking about game depth which I would assume goes to ME, although I have heard people finish it in 14 hours. I have no idea how far along I am in Uncharted but it seems like I have a lot of Rewards left to accomplish. I have about 8 hours in so far. It is completely linear, no question. But again I wasn't referring to the game depth or design, just the graphics of those two particular games.

The point was that games can't be properly compared unless they are similar in terms of scope.
Take a theoretical tech demo of 1 character being rendered on, say, the PS3. They could apply the systems full resources to that 1 model and have it look as real as they want.
But a game isn't that. Mass Effect has to render and process a lot more than Unchartered, they even manage much more realistic looking human faces than Unchartered.

Compare UC to something more like GoW, or a game that doesn't need to render as much as ME.

Curren~Sea

Dec 14, 2007, 12:17 PM

they even manage much more realistic looking human faces than Unchartered.
We disagree. Faces are the main thing I compared between ME and UC. For example on the ship in the opening scene that new recruit's face had shadows that were all jaggie, pixelated, and boxy. I'm on a 46" 1080p TV so that could cause some stretching (although ME is promoted as a 1080p game). Also, teeth and lips are often overlaying each other and clothing cuts into the body. UC looks smoother and more natural to me. We're probably splitting hairs at this point because what I really want are graphics as good as Shrek 3 or Beowolf. Games are -close- but not quite there yet.

MacRumorUser

Dec 14, 2007, 01:13 PM

^ The reality of the matter is simple. If you want to compare hardware you can not compare two completely different games from two different publishers. Its like saying Madden is better graphically on PS3 than Lego StarWars on the 360. It does not work.

In order to compare graphics to get an accurate example of hardware power you have to use the same game.

Now if Uncharted was available on the 360, then by all means we could use it to compare between the PS3 & 360. The same for Mass Effect (only vice-versa).

The reality is, hardware power wise - both consoles are pretty much dead tied. All the developers have pretty much said so, and I'm sure they have a little better knowledge of what's possible on both consoles than anyone else here.

The choice of what console you should buy boils down to the following.

1) Do you prefer the exclusive titles on PS3 or 360
2) If your going to be playing against friends online, which console are they on ?
3) Do you want HD movie playback from the outset ?
4) Do you require WiFi off the bat ?

Both the 360 and PS3 are great consoles. Both are seriously not without faults. The 360 has a reportedly horrendous 1/3 failure rate. Although this is offset by the fact that you get a 3 year warranty.

The PS3 has in comparison to the 360, a much weaker online structure, and it's dashboard is lacking key features, such as ingame XMB.

I'm guessing the OP has by this stage already made his decision, and therefore is there any point in continuing this nonsensical little boy pissing contest, that has dragged on page after page ?

I think for the sake of inner peace within the gaming forum, this thread should be allowed to die and people should stop arguing and go and play there own consoles or take up another hobby.... ;):)

Curren~Sea

Dec 14, 2007, 02:10 PM

I'm guessing the OP has by this stage already made his decision, and therefore is there any point in continuing this nonsensical little boy pissing contest, that has dragged on page after page ? I think for the sake of inner peace within the gaming forum, this thread should be allowed to die and people should stop arguing and go and play there own consoles or take up another hobby....
Good points.

Except I see this as communication offering valuable insight from people who have hands-on experience. Not a pissing contest by adolescents whining about their fanboyism uberness. I am sure there are readers of this thread still on the fence and this discussion may provide some help in their decision making process. I know that when I research products I generally read as many forum posts on the item as possible. And for the most part, members of MacRumors are intelligent, witty, and genuinely interested in helping others.

Much Ado

Dec 14, 2007, 02:23 PM

^ I think for the sake of inner peace within the gaming forum, this thread should be allowed to die and people should stop arguing and go and play there own consoles or take up another hobby.... ;):)

For those of us who haven't got one of the heavy-weight consoles yet, it's still interesting to see how opinion towards each changes as time goes by.

zero2dash

Dec 14, 2007, 05:17 PM

Well... partly true and partly not true. If you want to play wireless which is probably most of us, your price of the 360 just went up (due to having to buy the add-on wifi component) to match the price of the PS3 (which also includes the high def dvd player). Secondly, there are many people who like the fact that just one machine and one connection to the TV will do games, normal dvd's, and high definition dvd's. It's a great way to simplify.

But it has nothing to do with actually playing games. :cool:

A 360 is no more crippled at playing video games than a Ps3, period. I love how "BluRay" and "WiFi" are brought up in a "which to buy?" scenario like you absolutely cannot and will not be able to play games on anything but a BluRay disc-based system, or a networked system with WiFi instead of wired 10/100. If this were the case, than every other system at this point in time would be nothing but a door stop (and that's obviously not the point when Nielsen reports that the Ps2 is still the most played system (http://ps2.joystiq.com/2007/12/13/nielsen-ps2-is-still-the-top-played-system/)).

This isn't like paying extra for required hardware (like a required hard drive)...Sony threw those features into their system to account for jacking the price up. People who favor those "extras" call them "bonuses"; I call them "excuses for jacking up the price". I'd rather run cat5 through a wall than pay extra for wireless. I'd rather not get a BluRay player and be able to save $100. Developers have gone on record numerous times and said that the DVD format is sufficient for games. The only company against DVD is Factor 5 and from what I remember, Lair was already ripped and dumped and found to contain a whole lot of 'dummy data' and if that is truly the case then F5 is full of crap.

Hell IMO WiFi is still at infancy as it relates to support on game consoles considering that the DS only supports WEP (pathetic) and the PSP only supports WPA. The Wii supports WPA2 and that's great; I have no idea if the Ps3 supports WPA2 (I'm sure it supports WPA though). Because of this, I'd rather run wired anyway.

MacRumorUser

Dec 14, 2007, 05:24 PM

For those of us who haven't got one of the heavy-weight consoles yet, it's still interesting to see how opinion towards each changes as time goes by.

Fair do's. But a few stern words now and again helps keep the ranks in order. ;)

Agathon

Dec 14, 2007, 10:22 PM

We must be using different copies of Mass Effect. When I play Uncharted it looks far more pixelated than Mass Effect does. Still looks good, but not quite as good. And they both have good performance for me - as in, no stuttering, no lag. *shrugs*

?

I own both consoles and both games, and there is nothing on the 360 that can touch Uncharted in terms of detail and large environments. You show me anything on the 360 that comes close to, say, the jet ski ride up the rapids in uncharted and I might believe you.

There are many fine games out for both systems, and if you can afford it, you should probably get both (and maybe a Wii too), but the PS3 absolutely spanks the 360 in terms of pure power.

Curren~Sea

Dec 15, 2007, 12:11 AM

I love how "BluRay" and "WiFi" are brought up in a "which to buy?" scenario like you absolutely cannot and will not be able to play games on anything but a BluRay disc-based system, or a networked system with WiFi instead of wired 10/100....
Yeah, see this is where you lost credibility in this discussion because you have either a) not read this entire thread, or b) selectively deleted portions from your memory, or c) chosen not to accept that this generation of consoles are about more than just playing games for many people. Oh well... have a nice day.

MacRumorUser

Dec 15, 2007, 03:36 AM

?

I own both consoles and both games, and there is nothing on the 360 that can touch Uncharted in terms of detail and large environments.....

but the PS3 absolutely spanks the 360 in terms of pure power.

This is a so far unproven statement. In order for this to be tested we would need to see Uncharted on the 360 optimized for it's core strengths, and then we could compare discrepancies.

Uncharted is a great looking game granted, but to say it proves beyond a shadow of doubt the PS3 is better than the 360 power wise is an utterly untenable position and one that is utterly facetious.

As I have already stated, most developers agree power wise the hardware is pretty much evenly matched. One has benefit A, the other benefit B - but when taken as a whole they are pretty much even.

Dagless

Dec 15, 2007, 04:59 AM

As I have already stated, most developers agree power wise the hardware is pretty much evenly matched. One has benefit A, the other benefit B - but when taken as a whole they are pretty much even.

I've got an inkling we'll be saying this till the cows come home :o

MacRumorUser

Dec 15, 2007, 05:28 AM

I've got an inkling we'll be saying this till the cows come home :o

I just dont understand why the fanboy's on both sides just simply can't except this simple thing ? Is it so hard to understand ?

They too and fro, spend huge amounts of time and energy knocking each other, formulating examples which just so happen to 'prove their point' irrespective that their logic and formula is utterly wrong.

They disregard what the majority of the industry is saying and convince themselves that the hyperbole and propaganda a manufacturer has stated holds more 'truth' than what the rest of the inside developing community is saying; simply because it somehow re-affirms their own flawed position.

It's really tiresome to be honest. I just wish I had a big stick that I could beat some sense into peeps ;) But I fear even that wouldnt work. All you would get then is .... "the Sony stick gives a better beating than the Microsoft branded one" :rolleyes:

When the majority of games are multiformat, and seemingly in this and probably to an even greater extent the 'next' generation of consoles, where costs continue to spiral, we will see less and less exclusives.

So get over it people. Be happy that you have the freedom to play any console you desire, and stop wasting your time feeling the need to justify your purchase by knocking someone elses.

Accept that manufacturer A will tell you theirs is better than B, and vice versa. Learn that the world is full of misinformation, specualtion, and at the end of the day BS.

A better use of your time would be to try and develop the sense to see through the BS, and spend the time instead playing the games for the said product.

But somehow I doubt any of these common sense words will make any difference and the continued flaming and stupidity will continue.

2nyRiggz

Dec 15, 2007, 09:14 AM

^You really can't blame them MRU when dumb arse game sites promote the dumb crap of "which one is best" with all of these comparison videos and articles twisting what is being said by the developers...its the media fueling this stupid "console war"

I think we are just repeating ourselves in this thread but it is the most action the gaming section is getting.

Bless

Spanky Deluxe

Dec 15, 2007, 09:21 AM

The sad thing is so many people expected the PS3 to do better than what it did, considering the price drop. Software differences are insane though. COD4 sole 1.5 million units on the 360 while <500k on the PS3. Exclusives to the PS3 are doing horribly.

Not what anyone was expecting two years ago.

The reason for this could be that a lot of people bought the PS3 after the price drop in order to go format neutral in the HD films territory. I know of quite a few people that did exactly that, myself included. Most of which have no plans whatsoever to use the PS3 as a gaming machine.
I still think the PS3 is nowhere near as good a gaming machine as the 360 and anyone wanting a gaming machine should get the 360. However, from a Bluray point of view, the PS3 is probably the best and one of the cheapest Bluray players out there. Even when it comes to HD films though, given the choice between HD-DVD and Bluray, HD-DVD wins every time for me.

Agathon

Dec 15, 2007, 09:59 AM

This is a so far unproven statement. In order for this to be tested we would need to see Uncharted on the 360 optimized for it's core strengths, and then we could compare discrepancies.

Uncharted is a great looking game granted, but to say it proves beyond a shadow of doubt the PS3 is better than the 360 power wise is an utterly untenable position and one that is utterly facetious.

As I have already stated, most developers agree power wise the hardware is pretty much evenly matched. One has benefit A, the other benefit B - but when taken as a whole they are pretty much even.

You show me one 360 game that has large scale 3D environments on the same scale and to the same detail and definition and speed as Motorstorm or Uncharted (things like the huge castle in the latter). The only one I can think of is Oblivion, and while the world is fairly detailed in that, motion is pretty simplistic and lame in that game (which doesn't matter so much given the type of game it is). Edit: Test Drive Unlimited has a huge environment, but the gameplay and detail is somewhat limited.

Gears of War has about the best graphics on the 360, but the environments are much much smaller. It's the same with the Tom Clancy games on both systems. Compare Ratchet and Clank with Kameo, and you will see what I mean. Halo 3 has expansive environments, but isn't true HD because of it.

That's the big difference between the consoles. I spotted it as soon as I fired up Motorstorm.

It was no lie to say that the original XBox was a more powerful machine than the PS2. Now the boot is on the other foot.

Dagless

Dec 15, 2007, 10:16 AM

[double post!]

Dagless

Dec 15, 2007, 10:18 AM

Out of curiosity why does speed come into the equation?

Mass Effect, Alan Wake. Don't they have super huge expanses of land too? Oblivion was the obvious one, and a very early 360 game. Unchartered is big? I think the non-linearity of the level design sorta explains that one.

What about the upcoming GTA? Rockstar are only bringing out downloadable content on the 360 version. As if they've made their mind up which will provide the best experience already. I suppose loading a huge and detailed city onto 256mb of system ram isn't going to be an pleasant experience.

And MRU I can't believe that so soon after explanations we're already getting

It was no lie to say that the original XBox was a more powerful machine than the PS2. Now the boot is on the other foot. With the only evidence being 2 exclusive games and a disregard for the systems specs. :rolleyes:

MacRumorUser

Dec 15, 2007, 10:30 AM

Mackilroy

Dec 15, 2007, 10:47 AM

?

I own both consoles and both games, and there is nothing on the 360 that can touch Uncharted in terms of detail and large environments. You show me anything on the 360 that comes close to, say, the jet ski ride up the rapids in uncharted and I might believe you.

There are many fine games out for both systems, and if you can afford it, you should probably get both (and maybe a Wii too), but the PS3 absolutely spanks the 360 in terms of pure power.

Agathon, I have a PS3, and I also have Uncharted. Also, I remember that part going up the rapids, and that isn't a very large environment. Extremely linear.

Yeah, see this is where you lost credibility in this discussion because you have either a) not read this entire thread, or b) selectively deleted portions from your memory, or c) chosen not to accept that this generation of consoles are about more than just playing games for many people. Oh well... have a nice day.

I think he understands that, but what he's saying is that a lot of PS3 fans seem to believe that Blu-ray and WiFi are necessary for gaming, when they're really not.

2nyRiggz

Dec 15, 2007, 01:32 PM

What about the upcoming GTA? Rockstar are only bringing out downloadable content on the 360 version. As if they've made their mind up which will provide the best experience already. I suppose loading a huge and detailed city onto 256mb of system ram isn't going to be an pleasant experience.

Dude you are fueling it.....This is not the reason why MS is getting DL content. From what I've read the dev team is having problems with both systems.

This constant bicker about uncharted & ME is useless...both games are beautiful and both have their problems. If you guys want to compare games lets wait until 08 when these games should be released at the same time(from what we are seeing now the PS3 and 360 display the same amount of power on 3rd party titles)

Bless

GFLPraxis

Dec 15, 2007, 04:50 PM

diamond.g

Dec 15, 2007, 06:23 PM

While the two chunks of RAM are physically in different locations, I'm pretty sure I recall reading that the PS3 did nothing to block developers from using the 256 MB of RAM on the GPU as system RAM or the 256 MB of system RAM as VRAM.

There is nothing to block it, but from my understanding using the VRAM as RAM is slower than the GPU using the RAM as VRAM.

GFLPraxis

Dec 15, 2007, 06:42 PM

There is nothing to block it, but from my understanding using the VRAM as RAM is slower than the GPU using the RAM as VRAM.

Is that a universal truth, or is it only true of PCs? If a device is engineered with that usage in mind....

After all, in the PC world we'd say that a computer with a GPU using shared memory is always slower than one with a GPU with on-board RAM (like the 360).

Curren~Sea

Dec 15, 2007, 07:49 PM

I give up! :rolleyes:

I've explained how many times in this thread that the only way we will ever know how 360 or PS3 compare is if the same game is available on both consoles.

Somehow that concept is impossible for people to comprehend.

I am not knocking Uncharted at all. In fact i do think the game is beautiful to look at at, (although the gameplay in the shooting sections gets very repetitive) but the only way to use that game as a example of better hardware, would be if the 360 had a version too. Then you could compare acurately. Comparing it to any other 360 game is just plain ridiculous, especially games of a different genre, publisher etc.. If you can't understand that it is pointless doing so, then I do truly envy your ability to disregard common sense.

That's it... I've had enough with explaining very basic concepts. I shall waste no more energy on this thread.
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (PlayStation 3)
GAMESPOT EDITORS' REVIEW
Reviewed by: Greg Mueller
Reviewed on 3/23/07 Updated on: 3/27/07 Release date: 3/20/07
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is an unequivocal role-playing masterpiece of epic proportions. After strong showings on the PC and Xbox 360, Oblivion is now available for the PlayStation 3, and it's still every bit a fantastic game. That said, if you've already played Oblivion, you won't find much of anything new in this version. The graphics are slightly better, the load times are shorter, and there is a bit of new content in the form of the Knights of the Nine add-on, which is available as a separate purchase on other platforms. However, if you own a PlayStation 3 but haven't played Oblivion yet, this is one game you won't want to miss.

http://reviews.cnet.com/playstation-3-games/the-elder-scrolls-iv/4505-9992_7-32088053.html
Heh, I hear ya mate and I do not want to fuel any fires, honestly. However, I am pointing out at least one case of the same game ported to different platforms.;)

JackAxe

Dec 15, 2007, 08:37 PM

Hmmm, PS3, or 360? I vote for the one that doesn't suck.

<]=)

Dagless

Dec 15, 2007, 08:40 PM

... You do know the PS3 version was in development for an extra year, right?

Should be looking at games released around the same time. Orange Box and other EA games, Tony Hawk, Skate et al.

zelmo

Dec 15, 2007, 08:49 PM

... You do know the PS3 version was in development for an extra year, right?

Should be looking at games released around the same time. Orange Box and other EA games, Tony Hawk, Skate et al.

Agreed. Assassin's Creed was released on both the 360 and PS3 recently. By virtually all accounts the differences are negligible. Different developers with different resources to allocate to multiple platform development get differing results but, by and large, these two systems are fairly comparable [power-wise] to the average consumer.
Can't it just be about the games you want to play?

zero2dash

Dec 15, 2007, 10:11 PM

Yeah, see this is where you lost credibility in this discussion because you have either a) not read this entire thread, or b) selectively deleted portions from your memory, or c) chosen not to accept that this generation of consoles are about more than just playing games for many people. Oh well... have a nice day.

All 3 systems are designed to play games first and foremost, which is what the majority of people who buy them care about.

If you choose to ignore that fact then by all means - turn a blind eye.

You say "many" people and I can tell you that your mention of "many" is a highly subjective one.

Tack on all the added "bonus capabilities" you want, they're still marketed as 'video game systems'. :cool:
When you go to buy them in the store or online, where/in what section are they located?

Like MRU & 2ny, I too am done re-bumping this thread with replies. If the OP hasn't decided yet then he/she oughta go buy a sudoku book and forget about game consoles altogether. :D

FWIW I could care less about what you or anyone thinks about 'my credibility'. :rolleyes:
This is a message board for crissakes, not a political debate (although some people on here take things out of hand from time to time and make them appear as such).

Mackilroy

Dec 16, 2007, 12:44 AM

Heh, I hear ya mate and I do not want to fuel any fires, honestly. However, I am pointing out at least one case of the same game ported to different platforms.;)
I might note that the GOTY version of Oblivion for Xbox 360 has all of the improvements that the devs brought to the PS3 version.

Agathon

Dec 16, 2007, 07:04 AM

Out of curiosity why does speed come into the equation?

Mass Effect, Alan Wake. Don't they have super huge expanses of land too? Oblivion was the obvious one, and a very early 360 game. Unchartered is big? I think the non-linearity of the level design sorta explains that one.

I dealt with Oblivion. It has huge environments but lousy animation of mobile units, limited mobility and so on. Even then the graphics are nowhere near Uncharted's.

Mass Effect I have been playing all day. The large environments are pretty bland, as are most of the graphics. They aren't even as good as those in GRAW. The one great thing about Mass Effect is the graphics in the conversation sequences. Those look absolutely amazing, and are the best thing about the game.

MacRumorUser

Dec 16, 2007, 09:59 AM

Mass Effect I have been playing all day. The large environments are pretty bland, as are most of the graphics. They aren't even as good as those in GRAW. The one great thing about Mass Effect is the graphics in the conversation sequences. Those look absolutely amazing, and are the best thing about the game.

That is utterly subjective opinion and still has little factual truth to the topic of PS3 or 360 power wise that you were asserting earlier.

I'm roughly 5 hours into Mass Effect, and happen to think that graphically the game is equally as impressive and atmospheric as Uncharted, though it has little bearing on the subject at hand irrespective.

My own opinion is equally as bunk as your own. It still does not prove one way or the other which machine is the more powerful which is the reason you brought both games into this topic in the first place.

Oh and as for 'the graphics of the conversation sections' are the best thing about the game ? :confused: WOW, you should be a reviewer at gamespot, that kind of in depth anaylsis would be at home there. ZeroPunctuation best watch out..... ;)

Antares

Dec 17, 2007, 11:04 AM

I don't know why I keep being drawn to this tread. Why I keep clicking on it and reading it....I've been long of the opinion, "who cares?"

Lets hypothetically say that one system IS indeed better than the other. Then what? Why does it matter if one system is slightly better than the other? What do we get out of it? Is the other system going to suddenly go out of existence if one is declared "better?" Should owners of the "lesser system" feel ashamed to own that system or feel less as a person, or not a true gamer, for owning it? Isn't that more of a juvenile way of thinking? To me, there's far more important things in life to argue about and debate than nearly identical (performancewise) videogame systems. ....like why Mac's are better than PC's. ;) Heh, Heh. But I hope you get my point. I actually think this thread entertains me more than anything.

Dagless

Dec 17, 2007, 11:38 AM

^ True. Sony fans have been harping (along with me) on the "graphics don't matter" front for years. But now they might have the most powerful system - boy they want you to know it! Not being the strongest system didn't really affect PS1 and PS2, or the NES and SNES before it. Or the Wii now :)

I come back here for the lulz. It dies down only to get brought up again by another newbie who doesn't know their pixel from their polygamist and that's when the giggles set in.

Curren~Sea

Dec 17, 2007, 02:05 PM

Oh and as for 'the graphics of the conversation sections' are the best thing about the game ? :confused: WOW, you should be a reviewer at gamespot, that kind of in depth anaylsis would be at home there. ZeroPunctuation best watch out..... ;)
We can all probably agree that nobody in this thread is a professional reviewer and that opinions expressed here are merely personal opinions.

Speaking for myself, the graphics I saw on Uncharted appealed to me more than Mass Effect. I found many areas of ME with very pixelated and choppy graphics. None of that is apparent to me in Uncharted. I'm glad you're having fun in ME - you should enjoy it because it is an impressive title from Bioware, a team known for high quality games. The reason I brought up the comparison is because they are two games that are designed to be platform specific and somewhat defining. They are supposed to represent what the platform can do. I think that using ME as platform defining for the 360 is not the best choice.

Although I brought up Oblivion, I agree that comparisons of games like Assasin's Creed and CoD4 are more appropriate for judging graphics/performance. I'm sure this part of the discussion is moot at this point.

Although some of us have contributed heavily to this thread and are clearly biased for our own well documented reasons, I think this still provides value to fellow MacRumor users who are interested in personal opinions from people who have experience with both systems.

jnc

Dec 17, 2007, 02:23 PM

Dagless

Dec 17, 2007, 03:17 PM

Wow, I take it you had a 360 for the first 3 days? I'm not into sci-fi shooters, more of an action adventure player but I found a few nice titles on the 360. Plus it seems to be the RPG platform at the moment and the Live Arcade content is much more varied than the PSN (at this time).

As for the ME/Uncharted comparisons (again :rolleyes:), they are not concrete examples of what both systems are better at. Infact one might say it should be the other way around. What with Blue Ray having more storage capacity for a bigger and longer game (allegedly). Come to think of it if you consider the scope and linearity of Uncharted it's as if the developers were working on a PS2 or PSP game and merely upped the graphics.
I don't feel the PS3 has a showcase title yet. That might be what Africa is for (or MGS4 if it's more than just a higher polygon version of the last 3 games).

psychofreak

Dec 17, 2007, 03:20 PM

A big thing to consider is how comfortable YOU are with the controllers - personally I much prefer the PS3's, but the 360 has rumble and the general layout makes it way better for FPS's.

I think the PS3 is awesome, but the limited amount of fun multiplayer games atm is stopping me get one...

Spanky Deluxe

Dec 17, 2007, 03:24 PM

PlayStation 3. The 360 is just a Windows gaming PC in disguise.

If your main gaming staple isn't "sci fi shooting" games, you're SOL with a 360

I owned one for about 3 days before realising there wasn't really anything for me on it. When you find yourself playing Geometry Wars exclusively, there's a problem.

That's a bit unfair now, isn't it? First of all its not a "PC" at all inside, its PPC not x86. Secondly it has the biggest games catalogue out of the three formats - there's something for everyone there, every single kind of game you'd want.

spyker3292

Dec 17, 2007, 03:48 PM

Wow this thread is long... and pointless. It all depends on what games you want...

diamond.g

Dec 17, 2007, 03:52 PM

We can all probably agree that nobody in this thread is a professional reviewer and that opinions expressed here are merely personal opinions.

Speaking for myself, the graphics I saw on Uncharted appealed to me more than Mass Effect. I found many areas of ME with very pixelated and choppy graphics. None of that is apparent to me in Uncharted. I'm glad you're having fun in ME - you should enjoy it because it is an impressive title from Bioware, a team known for high quality games. The reason I brought up the comparison is because they are two games that are designed to be platform specific and somewhat defining. They are supposed to represent what the platform can do. I think that using ME as platform defining for the 360 is not the best choice.

Although I brought up Oblivion, I agree that comparisons of games like Assasin's Creed and CoD4 are more appropriate for judging graphics/performance. I'm sure this part of the discussion is moot at this point.

Although some of us have contributed heavily to this thread and are clearly biased for our own well documented reasons, I think this still provides value to fellow MacRumor users who are interested in personal opinions from people who have experience with both systems.
ME uses UE3 so it is a poor choice for a exclusive selection. The engine wasn't ground designed for the 360 like Uncharted is for the PS3.

As far as I know none of the currently released games have engines ground up for the 360.

jnc

Dec 17, 2007, 08:45 PM

That's a bit unfair now, isn't it? First of all its not a "PC" at all inside, its PPC not x86. Secondly it has the biggest games catalogue out of the three formats - there's something for everyone there, every single kind of game you'd want.

Uhh... find me the 360's Super Mario Galaxy or Ratchet and Clank. It's been out a year longer than the competition, so no excuse, that should be easy!

Find me the 360's Heavenly Sword, Mario Party, Singstar, Tekken, Zelda. I could go on.

PS3's exclusive horizon - Home, Echochrome, Little Big Planet, Tekken forgotthenumber, Metal Gear Solid 4, Killzone 2... Resistance 2? God of War 3?

360's exclusive horizon - Banjo 3, Fable 2 and uhh. Gears of War 2? hmm. Mass Effect 2? Halo: Episode One? Bioshock 2?

Wii's exclusive horizon - No More Heroes, Wii Fit, Disaster, Super Smash Bros Brawl, NiGHTS 2, Super Mario Kart, Geometry Wars Galaxies, Trauma Center 2... Pilotwings? WaveRace? Starfox? Kid Icarus? 1080?

360's catalogue consists of sci fi shooters and weak Rare titles. Every other kind of title worth playing is either non-exclusive third party and can be found on PS3(Rock Band, COD4, Stranglehold, PES 08, Assassin's Creed, the upcoming GTA4, Devil May Cry 4, Resident Evil 5), or does not exist. Feel free to prove me wrong!

Note: I own a Wii. But for the "powerhouse" consoles, PS3 looks like the better bet just on games available and to come, let alone the features of the console itself.

Anarchy99

Dec 18, 2007, 02:32 AM

Uhh... find me the 360's Super Mario Galaxy or Ratchet and Clank. It's been out a year longer than the competition, so no excuse, that should be easy!

Find me the 360's Heavenly Sword, Mario Party, Singstar, Tekken, Zelda. I could go on.

PS3's exclusive horizon - Home, Echochrome, Little Big Planet, Tekken forgotthenumber, Metal Gear Solid 4, Killzone 2... Resistance 2? God of War 3?

360's exclusive horizon - Banjo 3, Fable 2 and uhh. Gears of War 2? hmm. Mass Effect 2? Halo: Episode One? Bioshock 2?

Wii's exclusive horizon - No More Heroes, Wii Fit, Disaster, Super Smash Bros Brawl, NiGHTS 2, Super Mario Kart, Geometry Wars Galaxies, Trauma Center 2... Pilotwings? WaveRace? Starfox? Kid Icarus? 1080?

360's catalogue consists of sci fi shooters and weak Rare titles. Every other kind of title worth playing is either non-exclusive third party and can be found on PS3(Rock Band, COD4, Stranglehold, PES 08, Assassin's Creed, the upcoming GTA4, Devil May Cry 4, Resident Evil 5), or does not exist. Feel free to prove me wrong!

Note: I own a Wii. But for the "powerhouse" consoles, PS3 looks like the better bet just on games available and to come, let alone the features of the console itself.
a quick google search brought up this list of 360 and pc/360 exclusives for 2008

• Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures
• Alan Wake *
• Alive
• All Points Bulletin
• Banjo-Kazooie 3 *
• Castle Wolfenstein
• Chrome 2
• Command & Conquer 3: Kane's Wrath
• Cry On
• Croteam Project [untitled]
• Dark Messiah of Might and Magic
• Dead Island
• Dead or Alive Code: Cronus
• Destineer Spy Project [untitled]
• Dawn of Fantasy
• Fable 2 *
• Far East of Eden Ziria
• GTR
• Halo Wars *
• Huxley *
• Infinite Undiscovery
• Lost Odyssey
• Left 4 Dead
• Marvel MMO
• Ninja Gaiden 2
• Postal III
• Precursors
• Splinter Cell: Conviction
• Strike Force Red Cell
• Sacred 2: Fallen Angel
• The Secret World
• Total Overdose 2
• Theseis
• The Shadow of Aten
• Too Human *
• Universe At War: Earth Assault
• Voodoo Nights
• Warhound
• Warhammer: Battle March
• World in conflict

all this baseless arguing doesn't help the discussion
jnc your point it invalid and the discussion is moot
why do these discussions always turn in to fanboy brawls

that being said a quick search will more then likely bring up promising results for the wii and ps3 as well
the thing i most agree with in here and so far the only real logic is MacRumorUser's point about comparing the same game on both hardware would determine performance....
but even then it can depend on optimization towards one or the other

the debate comes down to personal preference

iEdd

Dec 18, 2007, 02:44 AM

Perhaps we should stop comparing in terms of games, because that's personal preference to the OP (who's probably either given up or decided by now). So games aside, a list should be made objectively of the pros of each console over the other.

Some things for experts to explain that can confuse people:
• Is bluetooth better than regular RF?
• Why do the PS3 and 360 perform similarly when the PS3 has 7 cores, not just 3?
• Is it better to have 512MB of shared ram or 256MB each to GPU and CPU?

Dagless

Dec 18, 2007, 05:26 AM

There used to be Bluetooth lag, I don't know if it's there anymore. It was noticeable in computer mice from just 2 years ago.

The PS3 doesn't have 7 cores per se, they're like mini CPUs. But it takes 7 of them to match a 3 core CPU. The benefit of a Cell CPU is that you can add more of these "cores" without too much hassle. Unlike a proper multi-core CPU.

I'd say the 360 has it here - 512mb system ram and 10mb ultra hardcore fast ram for the GPU (EDRAM). Heck, just that 10mb matches 256mb of standard ram with the PS3.

jnc

Dec 18, 2007, 05:44 AM

a quick google search brought up this list of 360 and pc/360 exclusives for 2008

<snip - all I saw was a load of boring pc-type games and weak exclusives, hardly any comparable to titles I mentioned>

why do these discussions always turn in to fanboy brawls

So, how about a simple platformer? First thing I asked for. Anything? Banjo 3 in 2008-9? That it? 360 has a huge amount of games, but they're not unlike the PC's offerings, which don't thrill me at all. ymmv, but I don't want a PC dressed up as a console, and I maintain that's what a 360 is.

After I point out I don't even OWN a PS3, the term "fanboy" just removes any worth from your post.

diamond.g

Dec 18, 2007, 06:21 AM

So, how about a simple platformer? First thing I asked for. Anything? Banjo 3 in 2008-9? That it? 360 has a huge amount of games, but they're not unlike the PC's offerings, which don't thrill me at all. ymmv, but I don't want a PC dressed up as a console, and I maintain that's what a 360 is.

After I point out I don't even OWN a PS3, the term "fanboy" just removes any worth from your post.

The problem is games like Kameo (which I consider to be a Platformer, but shows up as an Adventure game) don't sell all that well in the US. I noticed you are in the UK. Different areas have different taste. UK really isn't big on shooters, but Singstar and GT5 sells like gangbusters over there.

Something else that needs to be taken into consideration is where everyone is posting from. Some people are in areas that really just don't have the same interest. Chalk it up to the reason why the PS3 is doing much better against the 360 everywhere but the US (plus the EU guys are used to higher prices unlike the US).

asxtb

Dec 18, 2007, 06:32 AM

a quick google search brought up this list of 360 and pc/360 exclusives for 2008

• Age of Conan: Hyborian Adventures
...
...
...
I'm not trying to get into a debate about games, since (as mentioned before) it is all personal preference. But I just want to point out: it hurts your argument that the very first game you list as an exclusive is in fact multi-platform. :o

jnc

Dec 18, 2007, 06:33 AM

The problem is games like Kameo (which I consider to be a Platformer, but shows up as an Adventure game) don't sell all that well in the US. I noticed you are in the UK. Different areas have different taste. UK really isn't big on shooters, but Singstar and GT5 sells like gangbusters over there.

Something else that needs to be taken into consideration is where everyone is posting from. Some people are in areas that really just don't have the same interest. Chalk it up to the reason why the PS3 is doing much better against the 360 everywhere but the US (plus the EU guys are used to higher prices unlike the US).

Nice observation. 360: American made, American targeted. :p I'm amazed how well the Wii's doing, EVERYONE I can think of wants one. I'm not even sure they realise it's by the same people who brought the Gamecube, which was hated so fiercely here.

Spanky Deluxe

Dec 18, 2007, 06:38 AM

Nice observation. 360: American made, American targeted. :p I'm amazed how well the Wii's doing, EVERYONE I can think of wants one. I'm not even sure they realise it's by the same people who brought the Gamecube, which was hated so fiercely here.

Well at least we can agree on something!! :p The Wii really is in a whole different league to the PS3 and 360.

diamond.g

Dec 18, 2007, 08:21 AM

Is that a universal truth, or is it only true of PCs? If a device is engineered with that usage in mind....

After all, in the PC world we'd say that a computer with a GPU using shared memory is always slower than one with a GPU with on-board RAM (like the 360).

Eh, I should have said it adds more latency, which in a way makes it slower. Although skilled programmers can hide that latency.

Comparing it to a PC is bad form though. GPU's on PC have >50GB/s bandwidth. That is why sharing memory on a PC is such a large hit, you go from over 50 GB/s to under 10GB/s. On a console most of the components share the same bus, so there are no large jumps of speed.

MacRumorUser

Dec 18, 2007, 08:41 AM

Chalk it up to the reason why the PS3 is doing much better against the 360 everywhere but the US (plus the EU guys are used to higher prices unlike the US).

360 is still a better seller in UK and Ireland too. What is important here is that Ireland had the biggest per capita ownership of Playstation 2 outside of Japan, and yet the 360 continues to outsell the PS3. That was a big big change here.

PS3 is still €500 here.... It still needs to drop €100 to really start shifting.

Dagless

Dec 18, 2007, 08:48 AM

Yea I was going to post that too.

Funnily enough Sony launches in Europe are usually very good. A few days later and it's business as usual. This is probably where diamond.g is getting a bit mixed up.

AFAIK the UK charts are very similar to the Japan charts but with the PS3/360 flipped around. In that the handhelds sit at the top.

MacRumorUser

Dec 18, 2007, 08:51 AM

AFAIK the UK charts are very similar to the Japan charts but with the PS3/360 flipped around. In that the handhelds sit at the top.

^ Yeah DS is biggest seller here of all of them...

Antares

Dec 18, 2007, 09:17 AM

why do these discussions always turn in to fanboy brawls

Now you're talking! Super Fanboy Bros. Brawl.

A cross-platform game of epic proportions!

MacRumorUser

Dec 18, 2007, 09:31 AM

Now you're talking! Super Fanboy Bros. Brawl.

A cross-platform game of epic proportions!

^ Post of the day :D

asxtb

Dec 18, 2007, 09:42 AM

Now you're talking! Super Fanboy Bros. Brawl.

A cross-platform game of epic proportions!
Which always made me wonder if it would be feasible for someone to make a program for multiplayer that all three systems could use. So someone with a PS3 could play someone with a 360 or Wii. This may already exist and I just don't know about it since I don't play multiplayer. If not, this would be a billion $ idea. (By the way, I have the idea patented. :D)

MacRumorUser

Dec 18, 2007, 09:44 AM

By the way, I have the idea patented. :D)

You don't patent the idea, you patent the 'solution' ;)

GFLPraxis

Dec 20, 2007, 11:33 AM

Now you're talking! Super Fanboy Bros. Brawl.

A cross-platform game of epic proportions!

Featuring characters such as Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, Reggie Fils-Aime, Shigeru Miyamoto, Kaz Hirai, and Phil Harrison.

Each character has their own specialties; for example, Bill Gates can use his enormous wallet as a shield, and Reggie can shoot laser beams from his eyes and go into a Hulk-mode.

Okay, now someone HAS to make a homebrew game out of this.

Antares

Dec 20, 2007, 12:03 PM

Featuring characters such as Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, Reggie Fils-Aime, Shigeru Miyamoto, Kaz Hirai, and Phil Harrison.

Each character has their own specialties; for example, Bill Gates can use his enormous wallet as a shield, and Reggie can shoot laser beams from his eyes and go into a Hulk-mode.

Okay, now someone HAS to make a homebrew game out of this.

Heh...and I was also picturing a hydra with multiple Yamauchi heads. There would also be special attacks like where a PS3 shoots Blu-ray discs at opposing characters, a giant XBox falls from the sky and crushes opponets, etc....

You know, I suppose this would be like celebrity death match.....Remember that show? They did make a game out of that. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebrity_Deathmatch_(video_game)) But I can totally picture a spoof with videogame industry people and references. This would make a perfect 2D fighter. Jimmi...get on it.