Things we've always liked about windows yet never admitted it

[nxent]

This may have been done before, but I always thought it was a fairly productive thread in hopes Apple will read it and incorporate lacking features into the OS. Not that there are that many, of course. But there are still some things on Windows we'd like to see on macs...

[motulist]

The only thing I really prefer on MS Windows really has nothing to do with the OS itself. I like that basically everything is designed to be compatible with the OS, so as long as your hardware is relatively recent then you'll be able to run everything on your computer.

[Kamera RAWr]

When I was living at home... I really missed getting the blue screen of death and having to explain to my family they couldn't use the computer because it was "broken." Also miss having to call Dell and talk with the man or woman with a terribly thick accent I could barely understand.... sometimes just barely getting the computer to run again :rolleyes: :D

[mpw]

Keyboard shortcuts in menus FTW. So much easier than those in Mac OS, why, oh why don't do it the MS Windows way??

[bartelby]

Keyboard shortcuts in menus FTW. So much easier than those in Mac OS, why, oh why don't do it the MS Windows way??

Me thinks you jest sir!

[siurpeeman]

Keyboard shortcuts in menus FTW. So much easier than those in Mac OS, why, oh why don't do it the MS Windows way??

i completely agree. ever since the early days of windows, you pressed the alt key to guide through all the menus with the keyboard. it doesn't bother me so much, though. but i do remember back in the day one feature apple took forever to incorporate, the sticky click (don't know what it's really called). before, you had to click and hold to navigate through the windows. yuck!

[yellow]

Games. But I'm not reluctant to admit it.
Oh, and yearly reinstalls!
Oh, and the Registry!

[iKwick7]

The built in print function in XP is very nice -the ability to print a sheet of 4x6s, 5x7, an 8x10, etc.. Is there an option like this in OS X that I don't know of?

That's really the only good thing I can think of at the moment. :)

[mpw]

Me thinks you jest sir!

No, I'm serious.

I've always prefered the MS Windows way of keyboard shortcuts (accelerator keys?) So much easier than Apple's way. I can't remember shortcuts key combo's in OSX, but in Windows I can get any option in any menu without having to remember any special individual combo, just the concept, so much more productive and user friendly.

[motulist]

windows, you pressed the alt key to guide through all the menus with the keyboard.

If you have full keyboard access enabled in your system prefs, just click control-F2 to do the same on the Mac. Control-F3 keyboard navigates your dock too.

[bartelby]

No, I'm serious.

I've always prefered the MS Windows way of keyboard shortcuts (accelerator keys?) So much easier than Apple's way. I can't remember shortcuts key combo's in OSX, but in Windows I can get any option in any menu without having to remember any special individual combo, just the concept, so much more productive and user friendly.

My problem is I've only ever used Windows in work for the last 5 years so I've not felt the need to learn that stuff...

[motulist]

I can't remember shortcuts key combo's in OSX, but in Windows I can get any option in any menu without having to remember any special individual combo

For those of us unfamiliar with MS Windows shortcut key system, how does it work?

[siurpeeman]

If you have full keyboard access enabled in your system prefs, just click control-F2 to do the same on the Mac. Control-F3 keyboard navigates your dock too.

i've known about this, but windows still does it better.

[phanboyjohn]

As a recent switcher, I feel the keyboard shortcuts, but I have two others that can definitely irk me sometimes, though I'd never go back:

1. Customization: This one is definitely a mixed bag, but sometimes you can tweak Windows in a way you can't (or can't easily) on a Mac. Vice versa is also true as well, but sometimes I think that Apple sacrifices customizability for user interface, which is great, but that 1% of the time you need that ridiculous feature, it can be frustrating.

2. Incorporate rather than replace: Although there are probably some good arguments for the Mac way here, I prefer that when I drag and drop a folder somewhere, and a folder with the same name exists there, that things are added/incorporated, and only replaced when there are file conflicts. Instead, you get utter folder replacement, which can be extremely destructive. Not a big pet peeve, but I do like the Windows folder copy/move better.

3. My biggest pet peeve (drumroll): right-click dragging. I think it's because I'm a power right-clicker, but I love right-click dragging, allowing me to choose whether a file/folder should get copied, moved, etc. The Mac OS guesses right most of the time, but I like that control.

[motulist]

right-click dragging. I think it's because I'm a power right-clicker, but I love right-click dragging, allowing me to choose whether a file/folder should get copied, moved, etc. The Mac OS guesses right most of the time, but I like that control.

Just use the keyboard modifier keys. Drag and drop holding the option key does a copy, drop holding option+apple creates aliases.

[Royale w/cheese]

So many choices to run the system on. :D oh, and as yellow pointed out, the yearly reinstalls, it like you're getting a new computer! :rolleyes:

[mpw]

If you have full keyboard access enabled in your system prefs, just click control-F2 to do the same on the Mac. Control-F3 keyboard navigates your dock too.
Pale imitation.

My problem is I've only ever used Windows in work for the last 5 years so I've not felt the need to learn that stuff...
That's the beauty I can teach you it now, even you, in under a min.

For those of us unfamiliar with MS Windows shortcut key system, how does it work?

In windows you're sat happily working on a document typing away and not molesting your mouse at all.

Suddenly you want to add a row in a table. (At this point in Mac your hand leaves the keyboard grabs the mouse, moves across the screen to click the menu drops down and you mouse down to 'insert row', put the mouse back and return hand to keyboard.) In Windows you leave your hands on the keyboard, hit 'alt' the appropriate letter in each menu is now underscored hit that letter the menu drops down and each option has one letter underscored, hit that letter done. So much quicker.

All you need to remember is that the alt key will underscore the appropriate letter. One universal concept, and far fewer keystrokes than OSX.

[After G]

No, I'm serious.

I've always prefered the MS Windows way of keyboard shortcuts (accelerator keys?) So much easier than Apple's way. I can't remember shortcuts key combo's in OSX, but in Windows I can get any option in any menu without having to remember any special individual combo, just the concept, so much more productive and user friendly.
Ctrl-F2 highlights the menu, and then you can use arrow keys to jump around to whatever you want. You do have to remember Ctrl-F2 though ... :D

The letter shortcuts work sort of, but a lot of the menus have the same beginning letters ... good thing typing out the letters works ... actually pretty handy. It's nice to be able to get to menus without mousing. In Safari, "Hi" gets History and "He" gets Help.

I would imagine most people like OS X more, because of how the keyboard shortcuts are standardized in OS X. Command-Q to quit, Command-W to close window - none of this Alt+F4, Ctrl-W mixed up business. I can understand where you're coming from though ...

[motulist]

In Windows you leave your hands on the keyboard, hit 'alt' the appropriate letter in each menu is now underscored hit that letter the menu drops down and each option has one letter underscored, hit that letter done. So much quicker.

All you need to remember is that the alt key will underscore the appropriate letter. One universal concept, and far fewer keystrokes than OSX.

How is that so different than the Mac way? You hit control-F2 (which you could reassign to whatever you'd like) arrow left or right to the menu item you want pulled down, then type the letter(s) of the item you'd like to select. How is the MS Windows method much different?

The letter shortcuts work sort of, but a lot of the menus have the same beginning letters

You just have to type letters until the point of differentiation. For instance, in Safari's menu you have an item for "report bugs to apple" and "reset safari." If you hit "r" it goes to the first item that starts with "r," which is report, but if you want to get to reset you just type "res" and "reset safari" gets selected.

[After G]

I figured that out ... mpw has a valid point with one letter per menu, but I find the OS X way smarter; instead of having to type t for History because Help already took the letter H for example.

I don't really feel like I miss anything on Windows ... if all my apps moved to Mac OS X I wouldn't even run Windows.

As for the incorporate feature mentioned earlier ... I like the Mac OS X behavior because I often add things to a folder, and then find I have an old copy of that folder somewhere. The problem is half-fixed with a replacement warning dialog, but i can see where the "merge" behavior would be more useful.

[CmdrLaForge]

I hate Windows. There is nothing that I miss. Can't think of anything.

[mpw]

...How is the MS Windows method much different?
To get to 'Acknowledgments' under the 'Help' menu:

OSX = 'fn+ctrl+F2' '→' '→' '→' '→' '→' '→' '→' '→' '↓' '↓' '↓' '↵'
or 'fn+ctrl+F2' 'H' '↓' '↓' '↓' '↵' *

MS Windows = 'Alt' 'H' 'A'

Windows saves 12 keystrokes over the first Apples option and with no key combos!

I figured that out ... mpw has a valid point with one letter per menu, but I find the OS X way smarter; instead of having to type t for History because Help already took the letter H for example...
*I just tried this method and typing I gives the Safari menu H gives the Help menu, hit H again for history, but I can't get it to the Edit or View menus at all:confused:

[Aea]

The one thing that currently annoys me about mac OSX over windows is the lack of file paths in the finder window, seriously, I have having to click the folder dropdown just to find where I am, this is a serious problem since sometimes I have to work with folders with identical names.

That and I find the GUI to be all over the place. I'm using UNO, but occasionally I get the mac os 9 style stopwatch, and every application wants to use their own style of loading indicator. I feel windows has more graphical unity, although I'm probably so used to it that I don't have to nick-pick.

[motulist]

The one thing that currently annoys me about mac OSX over windows is the lack of file paths in the finder window, seriously, I have having to click the folder dropdown just to find where I am, this is a serious problem since sometimes I have to work with folders with identical names.

It sounds like you'd much prefer the column view.

[Aea]

It sounds like you'd much prefer the column view.

Too messy, I just really want to be able to look and see the entire path on one line, kind of like what spotlight does, it just needs to be expanded and on every finder window. I'm seriously surprised they didn't think of this :rolleyes:

[Mr. Amiga500]

There is absolutely nothing about Windows that I like. It's a convoluted, buggy, tedious mess.

There are about 15-20 advantages that Amiga has that I wish could be added to OSX, but I won't get into that here because most people don't even know what an Amiga is.

[motulist]

Too messy, I just really want to be able to look and see the entire path on one line, kind of like what spotlight does, it just needs to be expanded and on every finder window. I'm seriously surprised they didn't think of this :rolleyes:

Well, it's still not exactly what you want, but you'd probably like to add the path button to your windows. From the finder, click Views > Customize Toolbar. Then drag the Path button to where you want it in the toolbar. Then to see the path to your folder all you have to do is click on it once.

[killerrobot]

I like how in windows when you move a file from folder to folder, you can either copy it or move it to that folder. In OSX it always just moves it if it's on the same disk, or it always just copies it if it's on a different disk.

That's really annoying when moving stuff to my external because then I have to delete it off my mac's drive as well instead of it just getting moved there.

[drlunanerd]

I like how in windows when you move a file from folder to folder, you can either copy it or move it to that folder. In OSX it always just moves it if it's on the same disk, or it always just copies it if it's on a different disk.

That's really annoying when moving stuff to my external because then I have to delete it off my mac's drive as well instead of it just getting moved there.

Try holding the Apple key down next time :)

[killerrobot]

Try holding the Apple key down next time :)

Cool. Thanks. Why can't you right click (or control click) and drag though?

[invasian]

I miss PDF support in Firefox...I know I know, I just can't let this one go. It boggles my mind that you can't open up PDFs in firefox in OSX.

I also kind of miss Explorer compared to Finder. This may be more of an "used to" kind of thing, but i find it easier to navigate around with Explorer than Finder.

I miss the loads of free software available to do certain tasks. I also miss the ability to customize the GUI. I know there's candybar and shapeshifter, but those cost money.

Overall, nothing to cry about, except for the PDF support.

[Shotgun OS]

I like how Windows gets viruses, and Macs don't. That's really about all I like about Windows.

[nxent]

The one thing that currently annoys me about mac OSX over windows is the lack of file paths in the finder window, seriously, I have having to click the folder dropdown just to find where I am, this is a serious problem since sometimes I have to work with folders with identical names.

i'd have to agree with you on that one. it would be nice to have at least the option of displaying the full path name in current window. my other qualm is with networking. whenever i network my macs i seem to get the spinnning lollipop... a lot. could just be my network...

[Sideonecincy]

Windows has a better MMC and the larger availability of hardware

[Sean Dempsey]

The one thing that currently annoys me about mac OSX over windows is the lack of file paths in the finder window, seriously, I have having to click the folder dropdown just to find where I am, this is a serious problem since sometimes I have to work with folders with identical names.

thats my biggest peeve too. I know column view works, but I am always switching from list view by name, or by date. In column view, I can't easily switch between the two.

Funny thing is, if you do a search inside the folder, it DOES show you the file path, same with the itunes store. Pathfinder can do this too, but you have to run it on top of finder, which I don't prefer.

[chrisdazzo]

This is only a response to the title of this post...

Halo 2.

[Maui]

I sort of miss getting a cryptic error message and then using Google to find what it meant. Aside from the irony of using Google to fix a Microsoft product, it was always heartwarming to type in the most obscure, cryptic error message you could ever think of, and then find entire websites and forums dedicated just to dealing with that error, all published by legions of others who suffered the same error.

[Alloye]

That and I find the GUI to be all over the place. I'm using UNO, but occasionally I get the mac os 9 style stopwatch, and every application wants to use their own style of loading indicator. I feel windows has more graphical unity, although I'm probably so used to it that I don't have to nick-pick.

This comment really surprises me. If there's one thing Windows doesn't have, in my opinion, it's "graphical unity." Just about every Windows application I use on a daily basis has a unique style for menus, toolbars, icons, progress indicators, and custom controls. Even Microsoft's own applications vary quite a bit in this area.

Of course, Tiger is out of control with its Aqua, brushed metal, and iLife window borders. And since Apple has failed to provide developer-accessible implementations of the iTunes/iLife custom controls, you often find unique takes on them as well. Thank goodness Leopard is going to reign in at least some of this mess.

[lamina]

Pressing the Enter key executes whatever the file does. WHY does Mac OS want to rename a file when I press enter and it's selected?

[aaarrrgggh]

Ctrl-F2 highlights the menu, and then you can use arrow keys to jump around to whatever you want. You do have to remember Ctrl-F2 though ... :D

The letter shortcuts work sort of, but a lot of the menus have the same beginning letters ... good thing typing out the letters works ... actually pretty handy. It's nice to be able to get to menus without mousing. In Safari, "Hi" gets History and "He" gets Help.

Sorry, but this is a long way from a good solution. Just try hitting ctrl-F2 on a laptop without re-positioning your hands-- it's three fingers plus an awkward position. Even on a full-size keyboard, it is two keys from the same hand that requires re-positioning your hand.

I appreciate that there is keyboard access options, but it isn't keyboard-only functional.

I really really wish that keyboard-only access was more functional, and that third-party vendors (Microsoft, Adobe) were more consistent with UI guidelines for keyboard shortcuts.

Maybe next time around...

[aaarrrgggh]

I miss PDF support in Firefox...I know I know, I just can't let this one go. It boggles my mind that you can't open up PDFs in firefox in OSX.

It works just fine in my wife's iBook, but I have to say I am quite happy it doesn't do it on my MBP-- it screws up the browsing experience.

I do wish that there was a way that the files were automatically deleted, but it seems like this will be addressed a little bit in Leopard.

[motulist]

Pressing the Enter key executes whatever the file does. WHY does Mac OS want to rename a file when I press enter and it's selected?

I couldn't agree with you more on that one.

[After G]

*I just tried this method and typing I gives the Safari menu H gives the Help menu, hit H again for history, but I can't get it to the Edit or View menus at all:confused:So ctrl-f2, and then typing E doesn't work to get to edit? Or typing V for View?

Pressing the Enter key executes whatever the file does. WHY does Mac OS want to rename a file when I press enter and it's selected?Use command-O to open a file. Coincidentally, how do you rename a file by keyboard in Windows?

[McGarvels]

To get to 'Acknowledgments' under the 'Help' menu:

OSX = 'fn+ctrl+F2' '→' '→' '→' '→' '→' '→' '→' '→' '↓' '↓' '↓' '↵'
or 'fn+ctrl+F2' 'H' '↓' '↓' '↓' '↵' *

MS Windows = 'Alt' 'H' 'A'

Windows saves 12 keystrokes over the first Apples option and with no key combos!


*I just tried this method and typing I gives the Safari menu H gives the Help menu, hit H again for history, but I can't get it to the Edit or View menus at all:confused:

Actually, I can get there with:

'Ctrl+F2' 'H' '↵' 'A' '↵'

That's 5 as compared to 3 in windows. Granted the windows was is less, but I think you're not being fair with your first example in OS X.

Cheers

[hopejr]

Use command-O to open a file. Coincidentally, how do you rename a file by keyboard in Windows?

Press F2. Personally, I prefer enter for renaming coz I don't have to reach far, and cmd + o also is close by. I suppose this is a similar argument for pressing alt instead of ctrl+f2 for accessing menus. I prefer alt.

[After G]

Interesting ... tried changing the shortcut for menu access and it won't take just a modifier key, like Alt or Option.

Incidentally, I have one of those mini keyboards so I like pressing combinations of buttons more, as I have to move my hand anyway. Pressing one key is easier though.

I guess it's just a preference.

[Sounds Good]

I miss PDF support in Firefox...I know I know, I just can't let this one go. It boggles my mind that you can't open up PDFs in firefox in OSX.
Yikes. Really? You can't open up PDFs in Firefox in OSX?

Why not???


(this would/will really bug me...)

The one thing that currently annoys me about mac OSX over windows is the lack of file paths in the finder window...
This one will bug me a lot. :(

I often make use of seeing (and knowing) exactly where a file is located.

[bartelby]

Yikes. Really? You can't open up PDFs in Firefox in OSX?

Why not???


(this would/will really bug me...)

You can always install the add-on so you can view PDFs:rolleyes:

[Sounds Good]

You can always install the add-on so you can view PDFs:rolleyes:
Oh really? Okay, good.

Phew... :)

[Shadow]

The spacing in the grid for icon view in Finder/Explorer. In Finder its too big!

[mgargan1]

I like how windows let you see through walls... very impressive feature.

[juanster]

I Don t miss much now, but i remember i once really missed windows hen i wanted to have restricted access to a folder, like just ask for a password to open the folder, but noooooooooo,, mac os x had to make it very complicated, and the best thing i was told i could do was to make a different hd partition or something like it? that i did not like at alllll, but that is the only thing i can possibly think of.

[yellow]

To get to 'Acknowledgments' under the 'Help' menu:

OSX = 'fn+ctrl+F2' '?' '?' '?' '?' '?' '?' '?' '?' '?' '?' '?' '?'
or 'fn+ctrl+F2' 'H' '?' '?' '?' '?' *

MS Windows = 'Alt' 'H' 'A'

Windows saves 12 keystrokes over the first Apples option and with no key combos!

I wonder if this is because OS X (Mac OS in general) is much more mouse driven. Keyboard commands are for simple things that are constantly repetitive. I'm constantly confused by my Windows collegues that seem to not understand the concept of drag & drop.. at all.

[Rodimus Prime]

I wonder if this is because OS X (Mac OS in general) is much more mouse driven. Keyboard commands are for simple things that are constantly repetitive. I'm constantly confused by my Windows collegues that seem to not understand the concept of drag & drop.. at all.

well for me the ablity to cut and paste files, folder ect. Also the same way with coping. I find it annoying that one can not do that with keyboard commands on the mac.

[iBlue]

that you could change sounds with ease (like error sounds)

that when a network drive becomes unavailable during a file copy your system wouldn't crash. (what a dumb thing that is. come on mac, get with it!)

file paths. where the frack is it?

and being able to frequently swear at my computer for malfunction. sometimes that was fun.

[invasian]

Oh really? Okay, good.

Phew... :)


If you are referring to schubert's plugin, then it won't work on an intel mac...it only works for PPC machines. PDF support for Safari is fine, it's just Firefox. But the problem with Safari is that there isn't any mouse gestures.

[iRachel]

I like how windows let you see through walls... very impressive feature.

I don't know why, but this made me laugh out loud.

I was going to say that I miss Minesweeper, because it was necessary to wasting time at work. Then I started to think about how I waste time since I got my iBook, and I realize that I spend the time reading Macrumors. I'd much rather spend time here than playing silly games, so I guess I don't really miss anything about windows.

[mgargan1]

I don't know why, but this made me laugh out loud.


Thanks :)

[Makosuke]

How Windows handles unresponsive disks. I assume it ended up this way because you could eject floppies without interaction from early on, but if a disk stops responding (say, disconnected network mount), Windows generally handles it as gracefully as can be expected. Not always, but generally.

OSX theoretically can do this with network mounts, but in practice it seems to flat-out stall more often than not, and if a non-network volume flakes out but isn't completely disconnected, it usually locks up the entire machine in my experience. This has to do with pretty low-level OS assumptions, but I do wish OSX handled things a little more like Windows in this department.

Windows is also easier to add automatic network mounts, which is nice.

I would say that I like the way that Windows (XP, anyway), handles some printer drivers, going so far as to show an image of the printer with the installed options on it. Except in PRACTICE, the Windows print subsystem has probably caused me more trouble than anything on it when it comes to my office network--I'm constantly getting printers that can't be deleted, ones that stop working for no apparent reason, and such. The MacOS interface may be simpler, but it also works 99% of the time.

ACLs on Windows Server were a nice feature, but Tiger Server can do that now.

That's really all I can think of though--pretty sad.

[mpw]

So ctrl-f2, and then typing E doesn't work to get to edit? Or typing V for View?...
It does sometimes, but if you hit a letter for the wrong menu you can't easily get back. For example you hit 'H' for Help but hit it twice, so it highlights History. I'd expect to hit 'H' again to go back to Help but that doesn't work.:confused:
Actually, I can get there with:

'Ctrl+F2' 'H' '↵' 'A' '↵'

That's 5 as compared to 3 in windows. Granted the windows was is less, but I think you're not being fair with your first example in OS X...
No, I am being fair. You're right that you can do it quicker than the two methods I used in the example, but it was just an example.

The method you suggest works, but isn't intuitive and doesn't work the same in all menus. For example the Bookmarks menu has three options that all start with 'A', so how would I know how to get to the one I want?

On this one issue MS Windows is simply better, simpler, more user-friendly. It's like computing for 'the rest of us'.

Most annoying is that I can't believe it would be hard for Apple to implement it in MacOS, so why don't they??

[ravenvii]

It does sometimes, but if you hit a letter for the wrong menu you can't easily get back. For example you hit 'H' for Help but hit it twice, so it highlights History. I'd expect to hit 'H' again to go back to Help but that doesn't work.:confused:

Hit ctrl-f2 again to go back.

No, I am being fair. You're right that you can do it quicker than the two methods I used in the example, but it was just an example.

The method you suggest works, but isn't intuitive and doesn't work the same in all menus. For example the Bookmarks menu has three options that all start with 'A', so how would I know how to get to the one I want?

On this one issue MS Windows is simply better, simpler, more user-friendly. It's like computing for 'the rest of us'.

Most annoying is that I can't believe it would be hard for Apple to implement it in MacOS, so why don't they??

Generally, if you hit a menu with two items starting with "A" (for example, Accounts and Appearances), you'd type "A" for the first A item in the menu. If you want Appearances, then just type "ap" and it'll get to Appearance.

However, for menus that have two similar things with differences only appearing at the end (like the bookmarks menu with "Add Bookmark" and "Add Bookmark Folder", you'd have to type "Add Bookmark F" to get to the second item. Which would suck. But then again, it's just one arrow key down, so just use the key. You do have a brain don't you? You can figure those things out ;)

[mpw]

...You do have a brain don't you? You can figure those things out ;)
Obviously I can figure these things out, but the point is: Why should I have to?

Apple always claimed to be a simpler, more intuitive, user friendly interface, but navigating around the menus is none of those things compared to MS Windows.

In MS Windows I can hit any(never found one I couldn't) menu item from the keyboard, I don't have to figure it out or remember specific key combos(the MacOS key combos aren't even the same on the different hardware from Apple itself) or shortcuts, just the one concept "Alt, then the underscored option"

EDIT: Oh and incidentally:
...However, for menus that have two similar things with differences only appearing at the end (like the bookmarks menu with "Add Bookmark" and "Add Bookmark Folder", you'd have to type "Add Bookmark F" to get to the second item...
That doesn't work. The first four options in that menu are:

Show All Bookmarks
Add Bookmark
Add Bookmark For These Tabs
Add Bookmark Folder

Type 'A' and it highlights the last:confused: then do as you suggest and type 'D' and it highlights 'Show All Bookmarks':confused: and if you carry on and try to type the whole phrase with a space you select whichever (random) option is highlighted at the time.:confused::rolleyes:

[McGarvels]

The method you suggest works, but isn't intuitive and doesn't work the same in all menus. For example the Bookmarks menu has three options that all start with 'A', so how would I know how to get to the one I want?

On this one issue MS Windows is simply better, simpler, more user-friendly. It's like computing for 'the rest of us'.

Most annoying is that I can't believe it would be hard for Apple to implement it in MacOS, so why don't they??

I'll have to give you that. I've always been fond of the mouse though and never really learned/used keyboard shortcuts. I can see how this would be annoying though, especially if you've grown accustomed to keyboard shortcuts. Maybe this can be a hopeful in Leopard...

[DoFoT9]

i completely agree. ever since the early days of windows, you pressed the alt key to guide through all the menus with the keyboard. it doesn't bother me so much, though. but i do remember back in the day one feature apple took forever to incorporate, the sticky click (don't know what it's really called). before, you had to click and hold to navigate through the windows. yuck!

this can also b done in osx!!! its reallly handy. wonder hu stole it off whom :rolleyes:

[After G]

this can also b done in osx!!! its reallly handy. wonder hu stole it off whom :rolleyes:I would think that Windows had it first. Coming from a CLI like MS-DOS, MIcrosoft would have tried to make keyboard entry really friendly for all the hard-core DOS users.

Apple, having always had a GUI, and having the luxury of knowing the hardware, could assume a mouse was always there and therefore made a weaker implementation of keyboard access to a menu, because for most the keyboard is not an ideal way to access a graphical menu.

mpw probably likes the Windows method more because in Windows, aiming at a floating menu in a window without the top edge to stop the mouse is harder than pressing a few extra keys on the keyboard in Windows. He probably just carried his preference over to Mac OS.

For me, I don't miss it because Windows had too many ways of doing shortcuts that were inconsistent with each other so it was faster for me to use the mouse and ignore shortcuts when I started with Windows.

[mpw]

...mpw probably likes the Windows method more because in Windows, aiming at a floating menu in a window without the top edge to stop the mouse is harder than pressing a few extra keys on the keyboard in Windows...
Maybe that's why Apple implemented it that way, but I doubt it, but the reason I like it is because it makes me more productive when using non-graphic software like word processing and spreadsheets etc.

It's simply better.

[TBi]

No, I'm serious.

I've always prefered the MS Windows way of keyboard shortcuts (accelerator keys?) So much easier than Apple's way. I can't remember shortcuts key combo's in OSX, but in Windows I can get any option in any menu without having to remember any special individual combo, just the concept, so much more productive and user friendly.

I miss this feature too but rarely used it. The feature i missed the most is being able to use a key to choose an answer when a dialog box popped up (in EVERY dialog box).

Y for yes, n for no
or
A for accept, C for cancel or whatever the dialog box threw up.

In OSX i have to specifically turn on full keyboard control and then all i can do is tab between the choices. Much simpler me thinks to just press n!

Pressing the Enter key executes whatever the file does. WHY does Mac OS want to rename a file when I press enter and it's selected?

This one bugs me too, renaming files is much lower on my priority list when accessing a file than actually executing it.

Lastly i miss windows explorer and how easy it was to move files around in windows with it.

Also one thing i really really miss is how windows handles moving folders. I learnt this to my dismay one day on OSX! Basically if you move a folder to another hard drive and their is some error half way through. Then half the contents are in the new location and half in the original location. Now in windows if you grab the folder again and try copying again it will copy the remaining files into the folder. In OSX, for some stupid reason, deletes the files that were already copied over and then moves the un-copied files.

ARGH! I lost half my itunes library because of this retarded behavior...

[netdog]

I like that it reminds me visually of a video game. Think of that old Fleetwood Mac hit You Make Working Fun.

[mpw]

...The feature i missed the most is being able to use a key to choose an answer when a dialog box popped up (in EVERY dialog box).

Y for yes, n for no
or
A for accept, C for cancel or whatever the dialog box threw up...
An extension of the same concept I think, again keeping the concept uniform helps user-friendliness.

Mmmmm this thread is making me lust (more) a VAIO TZ or Asus UF1.

[TBi]

Mmmmm this thread is making me lust (more) a VAIO TZ or Asus UF1.

I like OSX on my laptops but for serious work, or on my desktop, I still prefer XP. The only reason i want a Mac desktop is because they are so darned quiet. Also i like front row when i'm sitting in bed and listening to music.

[Nermal]

Just about every Windows application I use on a daily basis has a unique style for menus, toolbars, icons, progress indicators, and custom controls.

Even Apple's own iTunes for Windows is guilty, for example there's a File menu where the control icon should be, so I have to go to File > Quit to get out of it instead of just double-clicking in the top-left corner.

[Shaduu]

The one thing that Windows does well for me is solitaire. That's it.

*Goes to play solitaire on iPod*

[Loge]

Anchored multiple selections with the keyboard.

In most OS X apps, having to start my selection again because I've gone one item too many is really frustrating.

Discussion about it here -

http://daringfireball.net/2006/08/highly_selective

[TBi]

Even Apple's own iTunes for Windows is guilty, for example there's a File menu where the control icon should be, so I have to go to File > Quit to get out of it instead of just double-clicking in the top-left corner.

Could always just click the X on the top-right hand corner.

Anchored multiple selections with the keyboard.

In most OS X apps, having to start my selection again because I've gone one item too many is really frustrating.

Discussion about it here -

http://daringfireball.net/2006/08/highly_selective

Now that's something i forgot about. I must have blocked it out of my mind because it is so annoying. This is one of the main reasons I still use windows and explorer for my main desktop, because i have so many files.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I miss this feature too but rarely used it. The feature i missed the most is being able to use a key to choose an answer when a dialog box popped up (in EVERY dialog box).

Y for yes, n for no
or
A for accept, C for cancel or whatever the dialog box threw up.

In OSX i have to specifically turn on full keyboard control and then all i can do is tab between the choices. Much simpler me thinks to just press n!Almost every dialogue box can be confirmed with Enter/Return or Canceled with Esc (whatever the choices are).

Also most Save Before Quit? dialogues use cmd-D for Don't save and cmd-S for Save.

[Nym]

What I like in Windows is the ability to run Counter Strike Source :) and... maybe the little ballons that crash the game whenever Windows feels I'm "low on security"... :D

Just kidding..., I prefer OSX, but I still use Windows for my gaming needs / headshot hunger.


No, I'm serious.

I've always prefered the MS Windows way of keyboard shortcuts (accelerator keys?) So much easier than Apple's way. I can't remember shortcuts key combo's in OSX, but in Windows I can get any option in any menu without having to remember any special individual combo, just the concept, so much more productive and user friendly.

I actually like the shortcuts in OSX, they're simple and they have something to do with the action being taken. But I too can understand that if you're really used to this, it can be frustrating :)

Pressing the Enter key executes whatever the file does. WHY does Mac OS want to rename a file when I press enter and it's selected?

I love this! :D I can't understand why, but for renaming files it's a great feature! Try renaming a folder of songs in Windows, it's much harder and time-consuming compared to OSX, and personally... I'm really used to using the mouse to select files and double-click them, however, when I rename I'm definitely using the keyboard so the Enter key serves it's purpose, letting you quickly Enter, Type, Enter, Down, Enter, Type, etc.

I like how windows let you see through walls... very impressive feature.

LMAO! BEST ANSWER EVER! :eek:

[motulist]

The one thing that currently annoys me about mac OSX over windows is the lack of file paths in the finder window


Geez dude! How's THIS for responsiveness! You ask Apple for something, and they immediately deliver!

In Leopard "Finder windows can also be set to always show the path of a file with the new "Show Path Bar" option."

Aea, you should post a comment about how one of the things that annoys you about OS X is that it doesn't send you 1 million dollars in the mail, then see what happens! :D

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0707leopard9a499.html

[mpw]

Almost every dialogue box can be confirmed with Enter/Return or Canceled with Esc (whatever the choices are).

Also most Save Before Quit? dialogues use cmd-D for Don't save and cmd-S for Save.
OK I wasn't aware of that, but that's kinda the point, you have to be made aware of all these different methods and I bet I'll forget this next time a dialogue box pops up.

...I actually like the shortcuts in OSX, they're simple and they have something to do with the action being taken...
But you still have to remember them, do you know what Cmd-F does for example? Honestly without looking or trying it??

With MS Windows ALL you need to know is Alt +the underscored letter. One concept, so simple.

[mahashel]

What do I prefer about Windows? Easy.
-> BUILDING MY OWN COMPUTER
Yeah, I know. Apple will never let us do that since the hardware support issue is the nightmare of all nightmares. It is one thing I like about Windows though. I can tweak, build, tear-down, reassemble, tinker, etc.. and always have a usable Windows system. ("usable Windows" is subjective, I know)
I may have to reload after every couple rebuilds, but at least it's an option.
With Mac, it's more of a turnkey approach.. which is great for 99% of the market. For us tinkering fools, we're still stuck with Windows. :(

[CalBoy]

One of the main things I miss about Windows is the game FreeCell (I know, terrible). I haven't been able to find a good replacement for this (downloadable ones have been disappointing so far).

The other thing that I miss is the file path that others have mentioned. It is very nice to have this, esspecially if you have a lot of files that need to be kept well organized (like we do at work).

[motulist]

I can tweak, build, tear-down, reassemble, tinker, etc..

With the exception of building your own computer from off the shelf parts, you can do all tweaking, tearing down, reassembling, and tinkering that your lil' heart desires. You can add new hard drives, setup a RAID HD array, replace you processor, tweak a million dip switches to overclock your processor, to overclock the system bus, you can add a super-mega-monster video card to drive 4 monitors, you can add special media drives to read everything on earth, like a magneto optical reader or whatever.

There are a gazzilion ways to tweak and tinker with a Mac.

Here's a great resource to get you started.

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/

[Rodimus Prime]

With the exception of building your own computer from off the shelf parts, you can do all tweaking, tearing down, reassembling, and tinkering that your lil' heart desires. You can add new hard drives, setup a RAID HD array, replace you processor, tweak a million dip switches to overclock your processor, to overclock the system bus, you can add a super-mega-monster video card to drive 4 monitors, you can add special media drives to read everything on earth, like a magneto optical reader or whatever.

There are a gazzilion ways to tweak and tinker with a Mac.

Here's a great resource to get you started.

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/

you forgot one little peace of infomation to gain that right on a Mac you have to pay $2k just to gain the right to do all that extra stuff.
Like the guy who said it before this is something about windows that I also like. Also this happens to be the exact reason I will never own a Apple desktop as it stands. I like the ablilty to build my own computer and to choose the parts I want to use.

Yes apple may use some good parts but at the same time in my own computer I use higher grade parts and I know EXACTLY what is going into my computer. I choose what it is not apple. I like that freedom and it is important to me.
In apple I do not know what they are putting in nor the grade of the parts they are using. It is an unknown.

[dops7107]

The Recycle Bin!

My fave rant. In OSX I cannot (to the best of my knowledge):


Delete individual files in the Trash Can (e.g. big disk images)
Delete files off a removeable disk to save space, without emptying everything else in the can
Delete things directly without them going in the can (maybe this can be done with Terminal, but c'mon, that's a bit advanced)

[mahashel]

There are a gazzilion ways to tweak and tinker with a Mac.
Here's a great resource to get you started.
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/

Definitely! xlr8 was a vital resource when I was tinkering on my old G4 tower, which is still a semi-viable system after several HDD and GPU upgrades.
I guess what I'm getting at is.. (to use the cliche "car analogy") you can take a Mercedes (Mac) and put some great aftermarket parts in it, but at the end of the day it still says Mercedes on it. You took a great machine and made it better.
Contrarily, you can go to NAPA (in the US.. not sure where the gearheads go overseas) and buy an engine block, tranny, heads, etc.. to put in the exotic polycarbonate shell you're bolting onto a reworked '76 Mustang unibody frame and end up with something utterly unique.
Yes, the Mercedes might be faster and more luxurious after all is said and done; but there's a sense of pride in having built something from parts.
To me, augmenting is good. Building from parts is ++good. :D

[Nermal]

Could always just click the X on the top-right hand corner.

But I shouldn't have to change my behaviour to suit one app.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

But you still have to remember them, do you know what Cmd-F does for example? Honestly without looking or trying it??Usually Find... ;)

[Nermal]

The one thing that currently annoys me about mac OSX over windows is the lack of file paths in the finder window

Coming in Leopard :) (picture thieved from Think Secret)

[mpw]

Usually Find... ;)

Usually, but sometimes Enter Full Screen:confused:

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Usually, but sometimes Enter Full Screen:confused:Or Enter Full Screen...? :D

Or Last Filter in Photoshop...? ;)

[mpw]

Or Enter Full Screen...? :D

Or Last Filter in Photoshop...? ;)
So that's only three non-standard variations I have to remember now:rolleyes:

[maccam]

I wish I could have the smilies that windows has, BUT THATS IT! :cool:

[&RU]

It has been a long time since I last used Windows, although I remember it being easier to operate via the keyboard. I still haven't figured out how to tab between multiple windows of a single application on a Mac.

Some people may disagree with me, but I miss the idea of having one central place for uninstalling applications. I love the drag and drop installation process, but I am not convinced the drag and drop deletion process is very good - you don't really get rid of everything that way. Trying to find and run an individual uninstaller that may or may not have come with the software just isn't very consistent or Mac-like either.

[theBB]

I cannot believe you spend all this time nagging about keyboard shortcuts (very geeky, I don't think Apple cares about you. :p ) but nobody even mentions the lack of cut-paste in Finder. Unbelievable... :)

[brkirch]

Sorry, but this is a long way from a good solution. Just try hitting ctrl-F2 on a laptop without re-positioning your hands-- it's three fingers plus an awkward position. Even on a full-size keyboard, it is two keys from the same hand that requires re-positioning your hand.

I appreciate that there is keyboard access options, but it isn't keyboard-only functional.

I really really wish that keyboard-only access was more functional, and that third-party vendors (Microsoft, Adobe) were more consistent with UI guidelines for keyboard shortcuts.

Maybe next time around...

You don't have to use ctrl + F2 for the menu keyboard shortcut, if you don't like that key combo just go into the Keyboard Shortcuts tab of Keyboard & Mouse settings in System Preferences and click on ^F2 while the "Move Focus to the menu bar" shortcut is enabled. You can enter any key combo to replace it with that you want.

It has been a long time since I last used Windows, although I remember it being easier to operate via the keyboard. I still haven't figured out how to tab between multiple windows of a single application on a Mac.
:apple: + `

[miniConvert]

I don't think there's actually anything I 'like' about Windows specifically...

I mean:
I like that I can run programs on Windows that I can't run under OS X.
I like that when I buy hardware for use on Windows I don't have to think twice about whether it'll be compatible or not.
I like that when something goes wrong hardware-wise I can buy generic parts.
I like that I can use the latest version of Microsoft Office at native speeds.

However, none of these are advantages of Windows as an OS over OS X. They're simply issues concerning hardware and software support for an operating system that is vastly more popular. When it comes to usability, productivity, responsiveness and performance there's just nothing that beats OS X on the desktop as far as I'm concerned. It has changed my life in the space of 16 months and I can only hope that I never need to depend upon Windows ever again.

[Schtumple]

To me, right clicking in finder is a mess, having cut copy and paste always there (even if not highlighted) kept consistency in height, on mac its a mess and still annoying for me, i have to stop and look for copy, paste or move to trash, why can't i delete something? why do i have to move it, only thing that bugs me

[After G]

So that's only three non-standard variations I have to remember now:rolleyes:It's not really nonstandard ... it's context sensitive. When was the last time you wanted to find some text in a video? Or apply a filter to a spreadsheet?

Here's an example of what I consider inconsistency. What do Alt-F4, Ctrl-F4, and Ctrl-W have in common? They all close a window. But they don't all work at the same time for the same behavior. It depends on the application you use and its mode.

Another example: the Alt key itself. Is it sticky (like when accessing a Windows menu) or is it not (like when using Alt-F4)?

[yg17]

Remote Assistance and Remote Desktop. And Apple Remote Desktop doesn't count since it costs more and isn't built into the OS.

Working at a help desk for a university, it is the best thing ever. Need help doing something? Give me the computer name and I can walk them through whatever it is while talking to them on the phone and showing them at the same time using RA. Need something installed? I can login as myself using RDC (with my admin rights and access to the installation files for all the crap we have) and install it. All without leaving my chair.

Anytime one of our Mac users call in, no remote assist. I'm going from memory when I tell them how to do something. Need something installed? Well, we'll have to put in a ticket to have a technician come out there when they have a chance and install it. Might be today, might be next week.

[kusanagi]

Biggest thing for me - alt+tab between windows, not applications.

Nothing's worse than having a couple of apps with multiple windows and you need to flick between the windows.

I know that you can flick between windows in an application, but not throughout all applications which really gets on my nerves. :(

[CalBoy]

Biggest thing for me - alt+tab between windows, not applications.

Nothing's worse than having a couple of apps with multiple windows and you need to flick between the windows.

I know that you can flick between windows in an application, but not throughout all applications which really gets on my nerves. :(

I understand why this bothers you, but honestly, isn't Exposé faster?

[biturbomunkie]

i.) ctrl+x and ctrl+v.

ii.) windows' alt+tab and task bar. managing a lot of open windows can be a bish in OS X. though expose helps a bit, it lags at times.

iii.) way better image viewing apps, and they are free! (thumbplus, infanview, etc.)

iv.) an easier way to customize file icons based on extensions.

v.) not a big deal, but at times i wish hitting enter means opening a file/folder.

[motulist]

Biggest thing for me - alt+tab between windows, not applications.

Nothing's worse than having a couple of apps with multiple windows and you need to flick between the windows.

I know that you can flick between windows in an application, but not throughout all applications which really gets on my nerves. :(

Apple-` cycles through a program's open windows, did you know that? Apple-tab cycles through open applications. That seems like a much more usable system than just cycling through all open windows regardless of which program you're in, that's just confusing and disorienting and makes you have to sort through many more items to find what you're looking for.

And of corse the most efficient way is to use the 'show all open windows' feature of expose.

If you really are craving for something that works somewhat similar to the windows way, you can hit expose's 'show all windows' and then hit tab to cycle through.

[netdog]

Oh, I really liked Bob (http://www.telecommander.com/pics/links/application%20software/microsoft/Microsoft_Bob_1_0/Microsoft_Bob_1_0.htm) and The Paperclip Guy.

[motulist]

i.) ctrl+x and ctrl+v.

Although I never use this feature when I use a windows machine, I can definitely see how if it was built into the OS I use everyday that I might really grow to like it.

ii.) windows' alt+tab and task bar. managing a lot of open windows can be a bish in OS X. though expose helps a bit, it lags at times.

See my above response.

iii.) way better image viewing apps, and they are free! (thumbplus, infanview, etc.)

Nothing beats graphicconverter. Nothing. It does everything (http://www.lemkesoft.com/xd/public/content/index._cGlkPTE5Mw_.html), including super powerful image browser (http://www.lemkesoft.com/xd/public/content/index._cGlkPTE0Nw_.html) functionality that I believe you're referring to.

iv.) an easier way to customize file icons based on extensions.

I'm sure there's an easy way to do this, look around and I'm sure you'll find something. And if you don't find anything then it'd be super simple to set up a system on your Mac that would do it just using OS X's built in features, like automator, smart folders, applescript, or whatever.

v.) not a big deal, but at times i wish hitting enter means opening a file/folder.

I totally agree with you on this one.

[mpw]

It's not really nonstandard ... it's context sensitive. When was the last time you wanted to find some text in a video? Or apply a filter to a spreadsheet?

Here's an example of what I consider inconsistency. What do Alt-F4, Ctrl-F4, and Ctrl-W have in common? They all close a window. But they don't all work at the same time for the same behavior. It depends on the application you use and its mode.

Another example: the Alt key itself. Is it sticky (like when accessing a Windows menu) or is it not (like when using Alt-F4)?
All true, but: My point is that once you know the 'Alt _' concept you can do anything in MS Windows, you don't have to remember multiple key combos or contexts. Yes you can do it other ways too, and yes some of the other ways of doing it need to be remembered or are as inconsistent as Mac's way or ways, but you don't HAVE to remember more than the one way. In Mac you don't have the universal way always there except for the mouse or longer winded Ctrl+F2 → ↓ ↵ method (Ctrl+fn+F2 → ↓ ↵ if you're using a laptop or the new desktop keyboard if recent rumours turn out to be accurate)

i.) ctrl+x and ctrl+v...
Cut & Paste? I assume you mean in finder for files right? Cmd+x and Cmd+v work in applications just the same.

[DoFoT9]

i actually find that the osx keys are WAY easier than the windoze ones.... the windoze ones are stupid. the osx ones are really easy to use and easy to remember, and everything uses the same concept.

thats jmo, ive been using macs for quite a while.. i dont tend to use shortcuts in xp or wateva...the mouse is used alot;)

[mpw]

i actually find that the osx keys are WAY easier than the windoze ones.... the windoze ones are stupid...

How so?

OK here's an example:

Sitting here right now I got and image open and selected in an application called 'Seashore', how do I use the 'Flip Vertically' option using keyboard shortcuts/accelerator keys only?

Here's a screen shot to help.

[motulist]

how do I use the 'Flip Vertically' option using keyboard shortcuts/accelerator keys only?

You can arrow down to it. Or if it's a command you use frequently enough that you want it to have a key command, then you can assign it one. In 'system preferences > keyboard & mouse' you can assign your own keyboard shortcuts to any menu item in any application.

[DaftUnion]

One word and only one word: games. End of story. Everything else I prefer my iMac over Windows anyday.

[Father Jack]

Well, let me think "what do I like about Windows" ........ No .. sorry nothing springs to mind .... :)

[mpw]

You can arrow down to it. Or if it's a command you use frequently enough that you want it to have a key command, then you can assign it one. In 'system preferences > keyboard & mouse' you can assign your own keyboard shortcuts to any menu item in any application.
But I'd have to remember it wouldn't I, and do you expect people unfamiliar with computers to start messing about with assigning shortcut keys?

[motulist]

But I'd have to remember it wouldn't I, and do you expect people unfamiliar with computers to start messing about with assigning shortcut keys?

I expect people who are unfamiliar with computers wouldn't use the alt+contextual letter any more than they'd use the concrete modifier+letter system. And most of the apps that non-super serious computer users use all have assigned key commands for basically all the menu items.

And you don't have to remember it. control+f2, then tab over to the correct menu and you see all the keyboard shortcuts listed right there on the right of all the commands. Then just hit the key command you're looking at or arrow down to the item.

[mpw]

I expect people who are unfamiliar with computers wouldn't use the alt+contextual letter any more than they'd use the concrete modifier+letter system...
OK sit two people down, one at a MS Windows PC one at a Mac PC.
Explain to one the 'Alt _' concept, explain to the other the various Mac methods and leave them work out stuff for themselves for a couple of hours.

Now sit two new people down and have the first two explain the methods they've used. Who do you think is going to be up and running and being productive first?

...And you don't have to remember it. control+f2, then tab over to the correct menu and you see all the keyboard shortcuts listed right there on the right of all the commands. Then just hit the key command you're looking at or arrow down to the item.
Doesn't work:confused::confused:
and if it did how many extra keystrokes did I just use over the Windows method??

[After G]

All true, but: My point is that once you know the 'Alt _' concept you can do anything in MS Windows, you don't have to remember multiple key combos or contexts. Yes you can do it other ways too, and yes some of the other ways of doing it need to be remembered or are as inconsistent as Mac's way or ways, but you don't HAVE to remember more than the one way. In Mac you don't have the universal way always there except for the mouse or longer winded Ctrl+F2 → ↓ ↵ method (Ctrl+fn+F2 → ↓ ↵ if you're using a laptop or the new desktop keyboard if recent rumours turn out to be accurate)The problem I see with a universal system such as the one in MS Windows is that you have to remember placement of things to do it quickly. Some of the "standard" positions should be easy enough to remember such as File -> Quit, File -> Exit, and Edit -> Preferences but they do change sometimes in WIndows. In OS X, you just type the first few letters of an item, always looking at the same spot for the letters to use. For me, I can type three letters in the time it takes me to look at a menu item to determine the underscore placement for activating a command.

Or you can remember the much more standardized and easy to remember key combinations in OS X. I find these superior as you only have to remember (function = modifier key + letter) as opposed to remembering (function = modifier key + letter of menu + letter of function in menu).

I will admit my ignorance here as I don't know exactly the Windows behavior when you press the first of the two letters - does the menu open to reveal the choices or does it highlight the menu and wait for you to open it as in OS X? OR is it app dependent?

How so?

OK here's an example:

Sitting here right now I got and image open and selected in an application called 'Seashore', how do I use the 'Flip Vertically' option using keyboard shortcuts/accelerator keys only?

Here's a screen shot to help.You can assign your own key combos to any menu item in any program OS X. It's in System Preferences. Since you assign it yourself it should be easy to remember.

[netdog]

Nobody else misses Bob? :(

[After G]

OK sit two people down, one at a MS Windows PC one at a Mac PC.
Explain to one the 'Alt _' concept, explain to the other the various Mac methods and leave them work out stuff for themselves for a couple of hours.

Now sit two new people down and have the first two explain the methods they've used. Who do you think is going to be up and running and being productive first?

...

Doesn't work:confused::confused:
and if it did how many extra keystrokes did I just use over the Windows method??I would say the Mac would be easier for a new user to explain to another new user, because of how the menu items are more standardized.

Throw a new app at the Windows user and he will spend extra time finding where the underscores are because the commands are slightly different. Quit might be replaced by Exit, Preferences might be in the Edit menu or the File menu, etc.

Throw a new app at the Mac user and he can probably port many of the same skills he learned with minimal thought. There is a reason Mac users complain about apps that don't follow the Apple UI guidelines, or when the keyboard shortcuts are different than expected (rare, but it does happen. Open-source apps, I'm looking at you.)

For either new user, the mouse is probably faster because they probably haven't learned to touch-type and would spend half their time looking at the keyboard, which takes away a lot of the effectiveness of keyboard shortcuts. Telling them only how to Alt+underlined letter+other underlined letter won't help.

As for the other thing, extra keystrokes are cheap. The new user won't mind having to press the arrow key multiple times as long as all they have to remember is (key combo to highlight menu, arrows to move around, enter to execute). And that works regardless of OS.

netdog, I never used Bob and I don't plan to start now. And Clippy made me want to melt down my box of paper clips and make bullets to shoot myself with.

[netdog]

netdog, I never used Bob and I don't plan to start now. And Clippy made me want to melt down my box of paper clips and make bullets to shoot myself with.

You are a heartless human being.

[Blue Velvet]

I've been thinking long and hard about this, and the best thing I can come up with is the nice startup sound on Windows 95 (http://musicthing.blogspot.com/2005/05/tiny-music-makers-pt-2-microsoft-sound.html). ;)

[Applespider]

On this one issue MS Windows is simply better, simpler, more user-friendly. It's like computing for 'the rest of us'.


Nope... computing for the masses is using the mouse. It's only 'power' users that ever really get to grips with keyboard shortcuts. There are people in my office that still can't grasp cutting and pasting with the keyboard shortcuts. The thought of using anything else would terrify them.

The feature i missed the most is being able to use a key to choose an answer when a dialog box popped up (in EVERY dialog box).
Y for yes, n for no
or
A for accept, C for cancel or whatever the dialog box threw up.

In many dialogue boxes, you can just hit the first letter of the option - so s for save, d for don't save and Command . will work on Cancel (although admittedly you have to know that one).

But you still have to remember them, do you know what Cmd-F does for example? Honestly without looking or trying it??

With MS Windows ALL you need to know is Alt +the underscored letter. One concept, so simple.

Yup... in general Cmd-F is Find. In Windows, I use Ctrl-F to do the same thing. I much prefer using the Cmd or Ctrl method in either OS X or XP (and I use them about the same) over the Alt method which to be honest generally ends up confusing me and popping up by accident if I hit the Alt key by accident. I use Ctrl W to close windows in XP just as I do in OS X. I keep trying to use Ctrl Q before forgetting that it doesn't work!

OK sit two people down, one at a MS Windows PC one at a Mac PC.
Explain to one the 'Alt _' concept, explain to the other the various Mac methods and leave them work out stuff for themselves for a couple of hours.

Now sit two new people down and have the first two explain the methods they've used. Who do you think is going to be up and running and being productive first?


You'll come back to find them all using the mouse. ;)

I miss re-sizing from any corner/side of a window when working on a small screen. I miss Exposé and easy accents when working in Windows.

[mpw]

The problem I see with a universal system such as the one in MS Windows is that you have to remember placement of things to do it quickly. Some of the "standard" positions should be easy enough such as File -> Quit, File -> Exit, and Edit -> Preferences should be easy enough to remember but they do change sometimes in WIndows. In OS X, you just type the first few letters of an item, always looking at the same spot for the letters to use. For me, I can type three letters in the time it takes me to look at a menu item to determine the underscore placement for activating a command...
You've lost me there? You find it quicker and easier to look for the first few letters rather than the one underscored letter?

...Or you can remember the much more standardized and easy to remember key combinations in OS X. I find these superior as you only have to remember (function = modifier key + letter) as opposed to remembering (function = modifier key + letter of menu + letter of function in menu)...
Maybe I just have a bad memory, but everybody seems so happy to remember hundreds of key combinations:confused:

...You can assign your own key combos to any menu item in any program OS X. It's in System Preferences. Since you assign it yourself it should be easy to remember.
I don't want to have to remember how the flip vertically in Seashore?

...The new user won't mind having to press the arrow key multiple times as long as all they have to remember is (key combo to highlight menu, arrows to move around, enter to execute). And that works regardless of OS...
Seems an odd way to look at efficiency 'I don't mind being inefficient if it means I can be equally inefficient in any OS':confused:

and btw the key combo you just mentioned doesn't work for me:confused::rolleyes:

[DoFoT9]

You can arrow down to it. Or if it's a command you use frequently enough that you want it to have a key command, then you can assign it one. In 'system preferences > keyboard & mouse' you can assign your own keyboard shortcuts to any menu item in any application.

thankyou :) that just helped me out sooo much!

Maybe I just have a bad memory, but everybody seems so happy to remember hundreds of key combinations:confused:

i really dont have any trouble remembering the keys.. i find it easy. either :apple: + key, or :apple: + Shift + key, or :apple: + Option + Key.. EASY :P

[Ish]

The best thing I like about Windows is that it attracts most of the viruses so I don't have to worry about them at the moment! :)

[DoFoT9]

yea its winter here where i am... had a cold for a month!!!

[After G]

You've lost me there? You find it quicker and easier to look for the first few letters rather than the one underscored letter?Yes, I am saying it's faster for me to know to look at the beginning of a menu item and type three characters from that, instead of scanning the item for an underscored letter and rechecking to make sure it's the right one.

Maybe I just have a bad memory, but everybody seems so happy to remember hundreds of key combinations:confused:It's not really hundreds, I'd say for myself about 10-15 or so that all applications share in common, and then a few dependent on context like Cmd-F. When you remember it's like second nature.

I don't want to have to remember how the flip vertically in Seashore?Why do you need a shortcut if you don't want to remember how to do something? And the first time you access this option in Windows, you have to locate it by looking at all the menus. And you still have to remember which menu it's in after finding out, instead of just setting something like Alt-V for vertical flip in System Preferences.

Seems an odd way to look at efficiency 'I don't mind being inefficient if it means I can be equally inefficient in any OS':confused:Is it more efficient to know one method for one OS or to remember one method for three OSes with one key change? The "remembering hundreds of key combinations" translates pretty well across Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows. I'm pretty sure it would work for another BSD as well.

and btw the key combo you just mentioned doesn't work for me:confused::rolleyes:Ctrl-F2 (you might have to press Fn on laptop); the equivalent of Alt on Windows (without the letter highlighting that you miss, of course).

[motulist]

You can assign your own keyboard shortcuts to any menu item in any application.

thankyou :) that just helped me out sooo much!

You're welcome! :) I'm always glad to help. Out of curiosity, which menu items in which programs are you most excited about adding key commands to?

[DoFoT9]

You're welcome! :) I'm always glad to help. Out of curiosity, which menu items in which programs are you most excited about adding key commands to?

ive always wanted to set some in adium for my statuses.. u kno like "away" might be :apple: + Opt + Ctrl + A or something.. maybe something easier lol.
i dont think its possible to do that kinda stuff, but there are a few other ones that i need in ical like "export", it doesnt have its own.
thanks mate :)

[mathwhiz90601]

Scroll wheel.

[DoFoT9]

huh?

[mathwhiz90601]

The thing I always miss when using my Mac instead of my Win is the lack of a scroll wheel. I love the scroll wheel.

Yeah, yeah, I know the new Mac mice have scroll balls, but my Mac is too old (7 years) for them.

[mpw]

...<blah blah blah>...
OK you do it your way, the MS Windowes way is waaaaay better for me, I loves me some user friendslyness.

...i really dont have any trouble remembering the keys.. i find it easy. either :apple: + key, or :apple: + Shift + key, or :apple: + Option + Key.. EASY :P
But I still gotta remember the keys right?

[DoFoT9]

But I still gotta remember the keys right?

of course you do.. i spose it just comes as 2nd nature to me. i dont even have 2 think about the shortcuts my brain just does it 4 me lol

[mpw]

of course you do.. i spose it just comes as 2nd nature to me. i dont even have 2 think about the shortcuts my brain just does it 4 me lol
Ah ha but you still haven't answered my earlier query (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3972492&postcount=107). Don't worry I won't hold it against you, I know you can't even though it would only take three key stokes in windows. I'll clear my desj of all the important paper work and find my mouse to acheive the desired result:p

[DoFoT9]

Ah ha but you still haven't answered my earlier query (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3972492&postcount=107). Don't worry I won't hold it against you, I know you can't even though it would only take three key stokes in windows. I'll clear my desj of all the important paper work and find my mouse to acheive the desired result:p

set a custom key, like was suggested. im sure u could make it something like Fn-F9.. or something.

haha my desk is also a mess like that, cant find nething these days.

[XheartcoreboyX]

So is there ANY way to make 'Entre' open the file/app instead of renaming it?!:confused:

i HATE the stupid fact that when you click enter it renames the file... >_>

[DoFoT9]

So is there ANY way to make 'Entre' open the file/app instead of renaming it?!:confused:

i HATE the stupid fact that when you click enter it renames the file... >_>

:apple: + downarrow???
:apple: + O???

[mpw]

set a custom key, like was suggested. im sure u could make it something like Fn-F9.. or something...
Why should I have to write the bits of the OS Steve forgot?

Don't worry, I know you all love Mac regardless, and I'm happy for you, I'm just hating the way Apple are trying to control how users use their softwre right now. It's almost become a religion rather than logic.

I covert a VAIO TZ or Asus UF1 so much I might revert to Windows

[DoFoT9]

Why should I have to write the bits of the OS Steve forgot?

Don't worry, I know you all love Mac regardless, and I'm happy for you, I'm just hating the way Apple are trying to control how users use their softwre right now. It's almost become a religion rather than logic.

I covert a VAIO TZ or Asus UF1 so much I might revert to Windows

if you feel the need to go back to windoze then by all means please do. dont hesitate.

also, setting the keys is quite easy... extremely easy.. im sure you would have known this. hardly takes a second

[dcv]

I covert a VAIO TZ or Asus UF1 so much I might revert to Windows

Stop talking nonsense. iChat won't work on Windows! :eek:

[XheartcoreboyX]

:apple: + downarrow???
:apple: + O???

and why am i forced to use 2 buttons to do such a simple thing?!
people open files more often than renaming them..why in hell apple make Enter rename????

[synth3tik]

The file system.......:eek: OK just kidding.

Not something I enjoy about windows, just something OS X does not have, until 10.5 comes. The ability to search a network. A good simple way to search for files on other networked computers with out having to have a client software loaded on them.

[mpw]

...also, setting the keys is quite easy... extremely easy.. im sure you would have known this. hardly takes a second
I knew it could be done, but due to my poor memory I never bothered to find out how or to do it.

I bought into Mac originally as a out-of-the-box never ned to add anything system.

[mad jew]

I like the default XP desktop the most.

[DoFoT9]

I knew it could be done, but due to my poor memory I never bothered to find out how or to do it.

I bought into Mac originally as a out-of-the-box never ned to add anything system.

ooohhh ok... why did/do u want to\want to go back to use windoze then??? there are that many things u have to change with windoze to get it working.. (thats for me anyway) i have to change so many things just to get it to actually work, then i have to change it to look good....if thats possible :P

[mpw]

ooohhh ok... why did/do u want to\want to go back to use windoze then??? there are that many things u have to change with windoze to get it working.. (thats for me anyway) i have to change so many things just to get it to actually work, then i have to change it to look good....if thats possible :P
FACT: Those two PCs I mentioned could save me an hour a day.

I don't really care what my desktop looks like, more how it lets me be productive.

[XheartcoreboyX]

Now,thats what i love about MAC =D,theres always a little tiny app to make you happy...now after some search found this app 'PresButan' (http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/17005) that lets you use 'Enter' key to open instead of rename...would someone try it and tell me if it works(dont have a mac currently)

[DoFoT9]

FACT: Those two PCs I mentioned could save me an hour a day.

I don't really care what my desktop looks like, more how it lets me be productive.

yup very good point. with some jobs certain types of computers are just better... thats just how it works.

[After G]

OK you do it your way, the MS Windowes way is waaaaay better for me, I loves me some user friendslyness.If it works for you, then that's good. Just remember that what takes three keys in Windows takes two clicks with a mouse (or even one if you just hold down the mouse button). And I asked you some questions there ... I do wish you didn't brush my comments off with a <blah blah blah> and gave me some answers.

Ah ha but you still haven't answered my earlier query (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3972492&postcount=107). Don't worry I won't hold it against you, I know you can't even though it would only take three key stokes in windows. I'll clear my desj of all the important paper work and find my mouse to acheive the desired result:pI've asked you this before, but if you had a similar situation in Windows, when there's no underscored letter in the menu, what would you do? I've seen this in Windows before with some subpar 3rd party apps.

The file system.......:eek: OK just kidding.

Not something I enjoy about windows, just something OS X does not have, until 10.5 comes. The ability to search a network. A good simple way to search for files on other networked computers with out having to have a client software loaded on them.Amen to this, but I usually use locate in a remote terminal (my remote systems are usually some sort of Unix/Linux) so I don't miss this as much as I probably should. It's a pain to get networking working on Windows though which is probably part of the reason why I don't feel the pain as much

I do think OS X could use a better filesystem, but something that isn't tied to Microsoft like NTFS.

I like the default XP desktop the most.I like the clouds but the grass comes off to me as too bright. I always switch to a plain background color for this reason. That said the default green desktop color like on Windows 95 always looks better to me than the default OS X green. I don't know why.

[rev316]

Gaming.

Boy it blows Mac's out of the water. :(

[TheAnswer]

Ah ha but you still haven't answered my earlier query (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3972492&postcount=107). Don't worry I won't hold it against you, I know you can't even though it would only take three key stokes in windows. I'll clear my desj of all the important paper work and find my mouse to acheive the desired result:p

As long as keyboard navigation is turned on in System Preferences > Keyboard & Mouse > Keyboard Shortcuts (and it should be, as it's usually turned on by default). Then...

Ctrl+F2 (or Ctrl+fn+F2 on a laptop)...then type "sel" to move to the Selection menu, then down arrow to open the menu, then either down arrow or start to type the command name to select it. Then return to activate the selected menu item.

[ghall]

I like the default XP desktop the most.
Really? Nobody would have ever guessed. :rolleyes:


I always like the fact that Windows crapped out my old laptop, otherwise I probably wouldn't be using as Mac right now. :p

[steamboat26]

Mostly little things:
-Solitaire and Minesweeper come standard (stupid, but i've wasted a lot of time playing them :D)
-windows tells you when your internet connection is down (i'm sure theres a way to do this on macs)
-You are guaranteed that every website will run for you.

[invasian]

The Recycle Bin!

My fave rant. In OSX I cannot (to the best of my knowledge):


Delete individual files in the Trash Can (e.g. big disk images)
Delete files off a removeable disk to save space, without emptying everything else in the can
Delete things directly without them going in the can (maybe this can be done with Terminal, but c'mon, that's a bit advanced)



I totally agree with this. Although, like you said, you can use terminal to delete individuall files. It's more of a nuisance than anything.

You can also use the terminal to delete individual files from the trah can as well.

[yetanotherdave]

restoring files to original locations from trash
being able to attatch an email to another email in outlook
return/enter key opens the file/folder/program selected


I totally agree with this. Although, like you said, you can use terminal to delete individuall files. It's more of a nuisance than anything.

You can also use the terminal to delete individual files from the trah can as well.

yes, open terminal, type rm[space] then drag the file from finder (including trash) to the terminal (it fills in the path for you). then hit enter and hyou're done

[Ish]

What was the name of that cat that used to sit in the corner and every now and then he'd sit up and wash, or turn round and lie down again? He was great!

[-::ubermann::-]

delete key, didnt appreciate that until i used a mac :(
MSpaint
cheapness of hardware

[mad jew]

I have two DELETE keys, and one acts like BACKSPACE.

[Aperture]

-You are guaranteed that every website will run for you.

Oh Yeah? (http://www.crashie.com) (Assuming you use IE)

[CalBoy]

Oh Yeah? (http://www.crashie.com) (Assuming you use IE)

Only Microsoft could have such determined enemies:D

I have two DELETE keys, and one acts like BACKSPACE.

Where? On my mbp, there is only one delete key, and it works like "BACKSPACE." I think -::ubermann::- meant the "delete" key as it is known in Windows: deleting what comes after the cursor. As far as I know, one must press fn+delete in order to achieve this on Apple's notebooks.

[DoFoT9]

Where? On my mbp, there is only one delete key, and it works like "BACKSPACE." I think -::ubermann::- meant the "delete" key as it is known in Windows: deleting what comes after the cursor. As far as I know, one must press fn+delete in order to achieve this on Apple's notebooks.

there is no "dedicated" DEL key on the MBP's, however if you hold "Fn" and press "delete" you will get the desired DEL.

[CalBoy]

there is no "dedicated" DEL key on the MBP's, however if you hold "Fn" and press "delete" you will get the desired DEL.

I sort of wrote that in my post, but thanks for backing me up:)

[DoFoT9]

I sort of wrote that in my post, but thanks for backing me up:)

oh crap sorry i completely missed that... sorry

[CalBoy]

oh crap sorry i completely missed that... sorry

It's cool:)

Either way, I thought of another thing I miss about Windows: print selection. One must download software for this in OS X.

[mad jew]

The standard Apple keyboard (wireless in my case) has the two separate keys. :)

[CalBoy]

The standard Apple keyboard (wireless in my case) has the two separate keys. :)

Ahhh. I'm guessing you have the white iMac/Mini "companion"? See, with notebooks, we loose a few keys here and there, even though most PC notebooks have both delete and backspace keys:rolleyes:

[DoFoT9]

Ahhh. I'm guessing you have the white iMac/Mini "companion"? See, with notebooks, we loose a few keys here and there:rolleyes:

that is unless u have the best of both worlds. notebook with wireless k/b :)

[mad jew]

I guess that's just the compromise of a notebook. ;)

My old iBook didn't have a separate DELETE key either, but it still had the FN key to help me out.

[mpw]

...MSpaint...
*swallows*
*lip quivers*
*sheds tear thinking of old friend*

[Sounds Good]

there is no "dedicated" DEL key on the MBP's, however if you hold "Fn" and press "delete" you will get the desired DEL.
Man, I use the Delete key A LOT. Why didn't Apple include this key?

Sure, you can hold "Fn" and press "delete", but just hitting Delete is soooo much easier.

[aussie_geek]

Choice of games.....

[netdog]

I miss the fact that I am no longer helping to pay for Bill Gates' car...

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~jshih/home/pic_bill_gates_car.jpg

[-::ubermann::-]

there is no "dedicated" DEL key on the MBP's, however if you hold "Fn" and press "delete" you will get the desired DEL.

i know, i know but its much more fast to press a "Del" key :)

[-::ubermann::-]

oh what i like also from windows is the preview in explorer, i prefer it over the preview in leopard's finder because it uses much more less space

[CalBoy]

oh what i like also from windows is the preview in explorer, i prefer it over the preview in leopard's finder because it uses much more less space

Let's ease up on those contradictory terms;)

I'm confused with what you want. Can't you change the view to list view? Wouldn't this be the same thing?

[Mr. Amiga500]

*swallows*
*lip quivers*
*sheds tear thinking of old friend*

What?? You like MSPaint? Just thinking about that crappy program makes me want to reach for a shotgun.

*snorts*
*eye twitches*
*loads shotgun thinking of old enemy*

[Evangelion]

If it works for you, then that's good. Just remember that what takes three keys in Windows takes two clicks with a mouse (or even one if you just hold down the mouse button).

Well, the thing is that in order to use the mouse, you have to move you hands away from the keyboard. I usually avoid the mouse if at all possible, since you can be more productive that way. You can substitute some of the things mouse does with the keyboard, but you can't substitute the keyboard with the mouse.

[mpw]

Well, the thing is that in order to use the mouse, you have to move you hands away from the keyboard. I usually avoid the mouse if at all possible, since you can be more productive that way. You can substitute some of the things mouse does with the keyboard, but you can't substitute the keyboard with the mouse.

Heretic!

[kick52]

The only thing I can think of is the speed of their browsers. My 10 year old PC is soooo much more faster at the net than my iBook here, which is just a shame. (I'm talking about scrolling, etc.) However, this might be because I am using the arrow keys to scroll which is, for some reason, 10x more slower than using the scroll bar.

[motulist]

The only thing I can think of is the speed of their browsers. My 10 year old PC is soooo much more faster at the net than my iBook here, which is just a shame. (I'm talking about scrolling, etc.) However, this might be because I am using the arrow keys to scroll which is, for some reason, 10x more slower than using the scroll bar.

You just need to change your key repeat rate setting in your keyboard system preferences to suit your tastes. Or you could just hit the space bar to page down and shift-space bar to page up.

[-::ubermann::-]

Let's ease up on those contradictory terms;)

I'm confused with what you want. Can't you change the view to list view? Wouldn't this be the same thing?

I like that details section in windows explorer, the one in the left, when you select an image it appears a thumbnail
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/a9/Windows_Explorer_on_Windows_XP.png
to get a thumbnail in finder we have to view as icons, or columns, but i don't like any of those, i like the list view, and the list view doesnt show me a preview when i select an image, if it would it would rock
Note that i only liked that preview, not that I liked the rest of windows explorer, I dont like the "file and folder tasks", or the "other places" sections
Or maybe is there a way to show a preview in the list view that I've missed?

[motulist]

I like that details section in windows explorer, the one in the left, when you select an image it appears a thumbnail

...

o get a thumbnail in finder we have to view as icons, or columns, but i don't like any of those, i like the list view, and the list view doesnt show me a preview when i select an image, if it would it would rock
Note that i only liked that preview, not that I liked the rest of windows explorer, I dont like the "file and folder tasks", or the "other places" sections
Or maybe is there a way to show a preview in the list view that I've missed?

Leopard is adding this feature with quicklook and or cover flow while in list view.

[-::ubermann::-]

What?? You like MSPaint? Just thinking about that crappy program makes me want to reach for a shotgun.

*snorts*
*eye twitches*
*loads shotgun thinking of old enemy*
yes, that crappy program is very light, and it can RESIZE images, is bundled with windows, in mac the lightest bundled program i have is preview, but it cant resize images

[CalBoy]

I did it this way, which I guess you don't like. For me it's fine; I guess you'll just have to wait until Leopard comes out.

[XheartcoreboyX]

umm,what i miss about windows..
1-the ability to cut/paste files/folders instead of drag and drop..
2-how easy it is to use a picture as a backgroud(right click>set as background.)
3-the ability to see a file/folder size by just putting the cursor on it.

other than that..os x do it in MUCH better way.

I did it this way, which I guess you don't like. For me it's fine; I guess you'll just have to wait until Leopard comes out.

i LOVE that feature in os x..its even not available in windows..by that way you can play any video without even opening the file...leopard will be AWESOME i cant wait!!! but is it going to have cut/paste function for FILES?

[Shadow]

Internet Explorer.

No seriously, hear me out. I'm a web designer and so I need to test my websites in the most popular browser, which just happens to be IE. I have Parallels installed to use IE7, but IE6 is still used more than IE7 (unfortunatley, since IE7 is much better :() and MS wont tell us a way to run IE6 and IE7 at the same time :mad:

[Dont Hurt Me]

TV tuners. for $20 you can have TV on your PC. In Apples world the starting price is almost 10 times that just to be able to have TV. Apple ignoring this media is a huge mistake. A media hub has to be able to bring in cable tv.

[Cloudane]

There's very little I like about Windows over OS X directly - everything else is related to its popularity:

Driver support
Games
Abundance of both free and Free software (still seems to be a shareware world on OS X)

Directly relating to Windows, I would have to say they are points relating to weaknesses in Apple's otherwise excellent Usability standards (ask any usability/human interface expert):

Copy one folder on top of another = merge contents - the Mac's action is destructive, deleting the replaced folder instead. I only had to learn this lesson once (byebye data), but shouldn't have had to - destructive results are a BIG usability no-no. At the very least make the warning dialog red, and completely clear that you could lose data.

Better keyboard accessibility. Apologies to the hardened zealots, but it's true. OS X does seem to have consistent hotkeys for common tasks, which is nice, but underlined access keys definitely make the menus more usable in Windows - not only is it quicker than the CMD-F2 method, but the visual cues are there in terms of underlines. Winner.

The # key. Boy do I have a hard time with that one. I know it's alt-3 or something like that, but it's a pain.

A maximize button that maximizes (I almost forgot that one, but it's probably the most important to me!) No doubt hardened Mac enthusiasts will argue against this one too, but at least give us the option! I like to have a window fill the screen, it's just the way I work, and having to drag the corners to do so is a pain. Let's say I want a window again.. just restore? Nope - corner dragging time.



Don't get me wrong though there are many more features in OS X that I miss when using Windows :D

[teleromeo]

The fact that everybody in my house prefers that XP-box makes that I can call my powerbook my really own computer ...

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Internet Explorer.

No seriously, hear me out. I'm a web designer and so I need to test my websites in the most popular browser, which just happens to be IE. I have Parallels installed to use IE7, but IE6 is still used more than IE7 (unfortunatley, since IE7 is much better :() and MS wont tell us a way to run IE6 and IE7 at the same time :mad:Two different virtual machines...

I've sat up Parallels to have one Windows 2000 SP4 virtual machine with IE6 and another with XP SP2 and IE7. (You could probably use XP twice, if you don't have an old 2K lying around.)

Ok, so I need a bit more RAM than 2 GB to run both at the same time without everything slowing down a bit, but it does provide me with both IE6 and 7 on my MacBook.

[OwlsAndApples]

MSPaint and IrfanView - what a combo! :)
And filmstrip view in folders with loads of pictures (I guess Coverflow in finder will be the new mac equivalent).

[Sounds Good]

And filmstrip view in folders with loads of pictures...
There's no filmstrip view in Tiger?

[yg17]

MSPaint. I wish OSX came with something like that for crude, quick drawings where photoshop is too much

[xUKHCx]

MSPaint. I wish OSX came with something like that for crude, quick drawings where photoshop is too much

Why not try our own RobbieDuncan's (http://forums.macrumors.com/member.php?u=10192) Poster Paint (http://www.robbieduncan.net/cgi-bin/get_file.cgi?file=projects/mac/posterpaint/index)

[anthonylambert]

1. MENUS
I much prefered the Mac's menu where it has one menu at the top of the screen. As screens have got bigger and bigger, I now have a 30" monster, the Microsoft method of having local menus to each app makes much more sense as it has become impracticle to move the mouse so far each time I want to change an apps menu. The menu options need to be far nearer to the actual app. NeXTSTEP use to let you move each apps menu where you wanted it.

2. WINDOW EDGE RESIZING.
Come on Apple! add window edge resizing! It just takes far more clicking to resize windows on a Mac, Most other windowing systems let you grab any edge of the window to resize not just the bottom right corner.... lets not be pig headed and fix this.

[deputy_doofy]

well for me the ablity to cut and paste files, folder ect. Also the same way with coping. I find it annoying that one can not do that with keyboard commands on the mac.

Someone may have already answered this, but I just tried that. I can't cut, but I can copy and paste with keyboard commans.

[megfilmworks]

Can't think of one thing I would like from that ugly OS.

[Corran Horn]

I like the ability to choose options in prompts with just the arrow keys. You can't log out or restart the mac without using the mouse. I still press the left key and almost hit enter before remembering that I need to use the mouse.

Oh and pressing tab to go from field to field skips drop down menus on mac, but on windows it will hit every single field and drop down menu. (on websites). However... when reinstalling OSX I noticed that pressing tab DOES go to drop down menus. However as soon as you get into OSX it DOES NOT. :mad:

Otherwise.. I'm in heaven on OSX

[anthonylambert]

I like the ability to choose options in prompts with just the arrow keys. You can't log out or restart the mac without using the mouse. I still press the left key and almost hit enter before remembering that I need to use the mouse.


You can enable this in the preferences... Keyboard and Mouse/Keyboard Shortcuts..... then select the "all controls" radio button.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I like the ability to choose options in prompts with just the arrow keys.Try using Tab instead... :rolleyes:

You may need to enable Full keyboard access for all controls in System Preferences -> Keyboard & Mouse -> Keyboard Shortcuts

Oh, and use the Power button to shut down and then hit enter directly on the prompt (or space bar to choose the focused Restart option, or tab to another option), and shift-cmd-Q to log out then tab and enter/space bar to Log Out. Oh, and remember, Esc is usually the Cancel option directly...

No need for mouse.

[xUKHCx]

I like the ability to choose options in prompts with just the arrow keys. You can't log out or restart the mac without using the mouse. I still press the left key and almost hit enter before remembering that I need to use the mouse.

What are you talking about, try cmd+shift+q to log out and you can restart buy cmd+control+eject.

Sleep is cmd+alt+eject
Shutdown is cmd+alt+crtl+eject

[sbluetruck]

Leopard= file path in finder, problem solved.

[mpw]

What are you talking about, try cmd+shift+q to log out and you can restart buy cmd+control+eject.

Sleep is cmd+alt+eject
Shutdown is cmd+alt+crtl+eject
I love the incredulous attitude of the Mac zealots. I've used MacOSX since 2001 and didn't know most of those commands, I'm sure they're all listed somewhere on my MacBook, but I wouldn't know where.

Also it's interesting to note that the new style keyboard released today throws a couple more issues into the mix. Even desktops will now need to use the ctrl+fn+F2 combo to access menus as the brightness key has been assigned to the previously empty F2 key. And I note that the keys that previously had symbols, like the alt key no longer do. How is new user supposed to find their way round when the key combos are hard to find displayed and when they are sometimes show sybols for keys that don't have those symbols?

[-::ubermann::-]

I did it this way, which I guess you don't like. For me it's fine; I guess you'll just have to wait until Leopard comes out.

one thing that i missed is that in column view, you can't sort by name/date/size/kind, not very practical, while windows have had it for years! and the right click to sort things in any view, not to mention other explorers...

[Shadow]

Two different virtual machines...

I've sat up Parallels to have one Windows 2000 SP4 virtual machine with IE6 and another with XP SP2 and IE7. (You could probably use XP twice, if you don't have an old 2K lying around.)

Ok, so I need a bit more RAM than 2 GB to run both at the same time without everything slowing down a bit, but it does provide me with both IE6 and 7 on my MacBook.

16GB of HD gone just for 2 apps is too much (each VM uses 8GB).

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

16GB of HD gone just for 2 apps is too much (each VM uses 8GB).Well, if you're only going to use it for IE, I'm not sure you need 8 GB on each (especially on a Win 2000 partition), and my two VMs combined "only" use 10.8 GB. But, I agree, it's kind of a waste of HD space just because Microsoft cannot make browser... :mad:

[mpw]

Ctrl-F2 highlights the menu, and then you can use arrow keys to jump around to whatever you want. You do have to remember Ctrl-F2 though ... :D...
I thought I'd revisit your post, and reopen this particular can of worms, with the release of Apple's new iMac and accompanying new keyboard.

So ctrl+F2 is from now going to be ctrl+F2+Fn on both laptops and desktop systems, and on desktop systems the standard keyboard puts the Fn key with the page navigation keys so accessing the menus by keyboard is now a two handed operation!

It's all about ease of use with Apple isn't it:rolleyes::D

[mad jew]

Quite an abundance of the problems seem to be user ignorance and/or stubborn ways. I found the more time I spent with my Mac, the more I learnt and the more I got used to the way it works.

[harveypooka]

Windows 95 had a startup sound that was made by Brian Eno, the father of ambient. That's pretty cool.

[zachman]

i now hate windows

[CalBoy]

Quite an abundance of the problems seem to be user ignorance and/or stubborn ways. I found the more time I spent with my Mac, the more I learnt and the more I got used to the way it works.

This is an important note for new switchers. It isn't fair to say that OS X is inferior because one hasn't learned all about it yet. If you think about it, most of us are forced to learn how to use Windows at some point in time, either because of work or school, and rarely is learning OS X a necessity.

[queshy]

I prefer windows live messenger (handwriting feature is nice) to msn mac, but adium is nice I guess.

I also prefer office on PC just because it's faster. if office mac 08 ever gets released these caveats will no longer exist!

[DoFoT9]

This is an important note for new switchers. It isn't fair to say that OS X is inferior because one hasn't learned all about it yet. If you think about it, most of us are forced to learn how to use Windows at some point in time, either because of work or school, and rarely is learning OS X a necessity.

this is the truest statement EVER!
back in year8 wen i was like 14 my dad bought me a PC, so that i could learn how to use it because i had to learn. i hated it, and i still hate it to this day.

[Joshua8o8]

I can't think of one thing I like from windows that i would like on my mac. Like mentioned, i was forced to use windows because thats all my family had. For the time being, i cant ever see myself going back to windows.

[clevin]

what I like about windows that OSX can't do
:
1. efficiency, apps indeed run faster once the slow windows startup finished
2. edge resize, resizing OSX window is a pain.
3. shortkeys, not that OSX doesn't have it, but that under OSX, in a LOT of cases, you need to press more keys to accomplish the task.
4. freedom, M$ isn't exactly a nice open environment, but apple's patch to OSX is even more hidden.
5. some software availability, very few way to change the look of the OS, no free way to rip DVD to a 4.5G iso. no obvious easy way to start firefox with multiple profiles. M$ Office lacks many useful shortkeys (insert a row, etc).
6. games, what can I say, you can blame whoever you want to, the problem is still there.


extra. the attitude, how many windows users accuse OSX of photocopying when OSX adopts windows' function/app, etc (if you make statement like "problem will be solved because leopard is going to have this")? and how many people kept throw out accusation of windows ripping off OSX in similar, but reverse situation? these sorts statements are ignorant, unfair, and double standard. You want to call something as "rip off"? call it that way after apple wins the lawsuit.

[swampfox]

Hardware Suport! The only thing that I like about windows (pay attention Apple) is that windows allows you to build your own machine from the ground up. I really wish that apple would switch to AMD prosesors, then I would be content:(

[xUKHCx]

I love the incredulous attitude of the Mac zealots. I've used MacOSX since 2001 and didn't know most of those commands, I'm sure they're all listed somewhere on my MacBook, but I wouldn't know where

I'm not a zealot, that is just a turn of phrase that I use from time to time.

[mad jew]

Hardware Suport! The only thing that I like about windows (pay attention Apple) is that windows allows you to build your own machine from the ground up. I really wish that apple would switch to AMD prosesors, then I would be content:(


That's been discussed before. As great as it would be to have OSX running on any PC, it would mean more work for Apple to accommodate all the different configurations. Part of Windows' problem is that the hardware and software relationship is too loose.

[yg17]

My favorite Windows feature that I wish we had, it's awesome!!!!!

82329


I just love spending 8 minutes on the phone talking to someone on the other side of the world just to use a product I legally own. Apple needs this feature in Leopard!!!!



[/sarcasm]

:D

[Aperture]

I just love spending 8 minutes on the phone talking to someone on the other side of the world just to use a product I legally own. Apple needs this feature in Leopard!!!!



[/sarcasm]

:D

I'd have to agree. I see no real point in it. If someone wants to pirate an OS, (OS X, Vista, whatever) they will. It would be near impossible to stop piracy.

[CaptainWOW]

... That I don't have to use it!

...

Oh, wait. I admit that daily. Nevermind.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist. :D)

Seriously though, Windows is okay... I guess. The thing is I just like the Mac OS so much more.

When my parents got me and my brother an iMac for Christmas in '01 it was just so much more simple.

And now that I've converted my whole family to Mac (Well I did that in 2004) I just like the fact that I'm no longer running virus scans for them every week. My "tech support" for them is no longer tedious tasks like that - it's more of a question/answer sort of thing.

[pdxflint]

I didn't bother to read all 7 pages of posts... but I like the way Windows handles resizing windows better than Mac - double click top of window for full screen maximize/resize. Firefox for Win is just better. Networking seems easier. Windows explorer w/ folder options beats Finder. Contextual menus seem more comprehensive and more natural to use on laptops with the right-click button. [Of course, I am so used to the eraserhead on my Thinkpad that I really wish it were an option on Mac laptops - I really don't like trackpads which require sliding my fingers all around, and prefer to keep my hands on the keyboard with 'mouse' buttons within easy reach of my thumb(s), and my hands relatively stationary. Also, with the eraserhead configuration, it's so easy to switch hands without thinking about it. Once you get hooked on it, it's hard to give it up - move cursor with directional pressure, not movement. Much easier to click-drag when not having to move fingers to move cursor while keeping thumb on button...] Windows Task Manager (the famous ctrl-alt-delete, 3-finger salute) is much more comprehensive, gives more information about balky applications. I guess it's just what you get used to.

Having said that, I'm still a Mac loyalist, but it's been awhile since I've had a new Mac. What I really want are the iLife and iWork apps. I don't really care one way or the other about the interface differences, since I'm very comfortable on my old, buttoned-down, stable Win2k installation. Having said that....I'll never, ever upgrade to a newer Windows OS, so it'll be back to Mac when Leopard finally arrives. Hopefully, having offered these thoughts here, I won't get any death threats... ;)

[TBi]

I'd have to agree. I see no real point in it. If someone wants to pirate an OS, (OS X, Vista, whatever) they will. It would be near impossible to stop piracy.

I do wonder what costs more... piracy or spending tonnes of money on these anti piracy measures including paying for a call center where people call in when they have activation problems.

[yg17]

I'd have to agree. I see no real point in it. If someone wants to pirate an OS, (OS X, Vista, whatever) they will. It would be near impossible to stop piracy.

Its pointless. Everything I was doing was kosher, I had just switched it up from Bootcamp to a Parallels VM (still only have 1 install) but if I was installing it on an additional computer, I could have easily lied to them and gotten the activation code

[XheartcoreboyX]

umm,things i miss about windows :
-the ability to cut files/folders then paste them anywhere else withou the pain of drag/drop them.
-the fact that i cant get in any computer store and buy any peice of hardware the way i used to do when i had a pc.
-video chat with msn users.-i know you can do it in amsn but not as good as i used to do it in pc..-.
-games!! i have to restart the machine and use bootcamp to play them...

but in the other hand..i will not ever think about getting a pc again!
i will most likely wait until os x fill those ''flaws''.

[markjewiss]

Just found this thread and read through it all, no-one seems to have mentioned yet the thing that I haven't worked out how to do on my MPB, which is...

the right-click key!!!

It's *so* useful to be able to access context menus without having to take your hands off the keyboard. I *love* my keyboard shortcuts, and really miss this. Having said that, I didn't know about ctrl-F2 to get access to the menus until reading this thread, so hoping someone can put me out of my misery. I don't care if it's a five button shortcut, I just want to be able to use it in some way...

Mark.

[DoFoT9]

Just found this thread and read through it all, no-one seems to have mentioned yet the thing that I haven't worked out how to do on my MPB, which is...

the right-click key!!!

It's *so* useful to be able to access context menus without having to take your hands off the keyboard. I *love* my keyboard shortcuts, and really miss this. Having said that, I didn't know about ctrl-F2 to get access to the menus until reading this thread, so hoping someone can put me out of my misery. I don't care if it's a five button shortcut, I just want to be able to use it in some way...

Mark.

lol either CTRL-left click, or get a right click mouse..

[apfhex]

Even desktops will now need to use the ctrl+fn+F2 combo to access menus as the brightness key has been assigned to the previously empty F2 key. And I note that the keys that previously had symbols, like the alt key no longer do. How is new user supposed to find their way round when the key combos are hard to find displayed and when they are sometimes show sybols for keys that don't have those symbols?
But like on the laptops, you just reverse the function of the fn key in the preferences and it's the same as the old style. As for the symbols, the US keyboards never had them AFAIK, and I agree they should. Adding "command" to the command key however is a huge improvement to help clear confusion over the naming of that key.

Not counting 3rd party software — that is, just considering what the systems themselves have — there is little to nothing I can think of that I "secretly like about Windows". One thing that maybe jumps to mind is the Task Manager (ctrl-alt-del), which is generally more effective and useful than Force Quit (Cmd-opt-esc). However, in OS X I never need to use Force Quit so maybe that's something to think about. ;)

[markjewiss]

lol either CTRL-left click, or get a right click mouse..

No no no, I know about CTRL-left click, and I've got a mighty mouse setup to give me right click, but I want the ability to issue a right click from the keyboard. Most keyboards that ship with a Windows PC have got a dedicated key on them to bring up the context menu you get from a right click. Having that saves so much time and effort in loads of applications as you don't have to go to the mouse...

Mark.

[Iscariot]

I'm inclined to agree with mpw. Keyboard-only navigation is simpler and more intuitive with Windows, and that is something I miss.

[XheartcoreboyX]

lol either CTRL-left click, or get a right click mouse..

seem like theres noway to do it without using the mouse/trackpad =\
it was nice to do it through the keyboard on my earlier pc..but honestly thats not a big deal in anyway,,and wouldnt care if they ever make a button for that..

[Jasonbot]

Minesweeper!!!!