Alias|Wavefront 'BIG NEWS'... Apple?

[arn]

Boomba forwarded us this Media Alert, alerting everyone that Alias|Wavefront will be announcing something big tomorrow...


WHAT:
Alias|Wavefront will be making a major announcement regarding Maya -
news that will permanently change the shape of the 3D industry.

WHY:
3D animation technology is increasingly becoming a part of our daily lives. It is fast spreading from the entertainment and design industries
into new marketplaces. Alias|Wavefront\'s software has been used by such leading companies as Industrial Light+Magic, Sega and Nintendo to compete and win the battle for market share. This technology was used to make two of this year's Oscar-winning movies, Shrek (best animated feature) and The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (best visual effects)

And now, the most respected 3D animation software in the world is about
to make headlines.

TOPICS:
*analysis: the current state of 3D animation technology
*forecast: the future of 3D technology
*BIG NEWS: hear how Alias|Wavefront is about to shake up the industry

WHEN:
Thursday March 28, 2002
11:30 a.m. EST


Stay tuned...

[Beej]

Apple is going to buy A|W and make the Mac a killer 3D platform!

This would certainly make sense after all the rumors about "Apple and a 3D company?" etc...

Apple recently bought Nothing Real, as well, who's Shake software is "the leading compositing software for feature film effects".

So, OS X, Final Cut, Shake. A|W's Maya would fit right in. Apple could revolutionise the industry with this kind of technology.

[GeeYouEye]

VERY good. If Apple buys A|W, it'll be the platform for graphics and movies, since it'll have FCP from Macromedia (is that right?), whatever it got from Nothing Real, and this Maya etc. from A|W. Very cool.:cool:

[arn]

I'm not sure what to make of it...

It's written pretty strongly... lots of hype :)

They talk about 3d going into new marketplaces... for some reason I feel like it would be a consumerization of their products....

maya for dummies?

:) we'll see...

arn

[madamimadam]

I would have thought that, if anyone was going to buy AW it would be Pixar. Maybe the whole Apple buying AW rumour came from someone that noticed talkes from Steve Jobs with AW and they interperated it as Apple buying AW instead of remembering Jobs' relationship with Pixar.

Then again, how would either company buying AW change the face of 3D????

Also, I would not see that AW would sell themselves or their product to Apple when they are such a huge contender in the maket place. Who sells up when they are on top????

[MacAztec]

Hehe, does this mean apple is really getting into the 3D type software, or is it just an upgrade

[germanknee]

where will this "BIG NEWS" be announced?
i don't believe it, but i guess we'll see tomorrow.

[Choppaface]

damn

time to bring the charger to school tomarrow

going to have to be watching the net all day :D

[Mac DV]

I really hope this news is that apple is buying A|W. When they bought Final Cut From Macromedia no one knew what the hell final cut was, but if they distribute an apple title with lightwave at its base everyone will already know what to expect.

This is a very important market for the same reason final cut was so important. Because it puts apple in the position of making all the software AND hardware for proffesional level work. This is a very imporatant distinction, and it has brought Final Cut great success.

The average 3d designer now uses 3d studio max, which is of course, strictly PeePee based. But if apple could start cranking out a newer ver. of lightwave and the system to run it on, this would turn some heads.

However, the announcement that "this will change the 3d world forever" makes me think that wavefront is doing something on its own. Plus wavefront is really successful already therfore apple would probably have to shave off a considerable chunk of the 4 bil. in the bank to purchase it. And i'm sure all their "focus groups" and other reg. bussiness folks would advise against such a move in the current economic slump we r experiencing.

On the other hand, I can't imagine Jobs listening to any accountant when he thinks he's got something hot.

Fortunately unlike apple hardware updates...we will know what this is about tommorow. Could be a new plug in that turns crappy actors into laurence olivier. Now that would be innovative...


Mac DV

[G4scott]

Count the minutes, Count the seconds, Count on being blown away...

haha :) just thought I'd put in a little funny. Just remember:

This is beyond the rumors, Way beyond...

LoL...

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by arn
I'm not sure what to make of it...

It's written pretty strongly... lots of hype :)


And who knows how to hype better than Apple?!?!?

Anyone remember the stuff they sent out before MWSF?

My only concern is that Maya on the Macs really isn't on par with the PC. Not to mention that it costs $$$, for the Mac its almost $6k. If you get Maya Complete on the PC its $17k. This is not for everyone.

i3D though, that might be interesting.

We'll all know tomorrow.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by Mac DV
I really hope this news is that apple is buying A|W. When they bought Final Cut From Macromedia no one knew what the hell final cut was, but if they distribute an apple title with lightwave at its base everyone will already know what to expect.

Its not Lightwave, its Maya from Alias/Wavefront

Lightwave is from Newtek, different company.

[menoinjun]

No one seems to realize that this would also have to include Digidesign in the deal as they are owned by A/W. This would be incredible because then Apple could own ProTools also, and completely own the professional sound recording indutry.

I am praying for this to happen.

-Pete

[teabgs]

Originally posted by ptrauber
No one seems to realize that this would also have to include Digidesign in the deal as they are owned by A/W. This would be incredible because then Apple could own ProTools also, and completely own the professional sound recording indutry.

I am praying for this to happen.

-Pete

I was not aware that A/W owned Digidesign. WOW! now this is getting to be too good to be true. Maya by itself is so powerful, im in awe every time I use it. And ProTools, now thats a quality program. I love that, its so easy if you have a good system for it. Imagine if Apple owned it and then it was able to be used on cxheaper systems without add ons....not to mention a version for OSX. And iMusic app. for the consumers.....imagine the press....

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by teabgs
I was not aware that A/W owned Digidesign.

There's no reason not to beleive that Digidesign might sell A/W and not be bought out. But if it happens, talk about a coup!!

This would change the face of computing as we know it. I might need to start getting some cash together soon.

[3rdpath]

digidesign is owned by avid and avid has no tie-in to alias/wavefront.

[irmongoose]

you know what im thinking?

I think thst alias|wavefront is just going to release some absolutely fabulous new version of Maya.

Nothing to do with Apple. That's what i think.

But who knows? We'll see....




irmongoose

[ThorPrime]

Originally posted by teabgs
WOW! now this is getting to be too good to be true.

it was too good to be true when someone suggested apple buying Alias/Wavefront.
the truth is, it's not.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by irmongoose
you know what im thinking?

I think thst alias|wavefront is just going to release some absolutely fabulous new version of Maya.

Nothing to do with Apple. That's what i think.

Well, there isn't actually anything to suggest that Apple will have anything to do with it. Just Apple lovers hopes turned into a rumour. Sounds like something SpyMac would have sturred up

[desmosedici]

by the tone of the press release, sounds like iMaya. a consumer version of maya for $1000. and for pc only. or maybe a|w think cutting another thousand off the price of maya is revolutionary. does anyone know if sgi owns a|w or is it a|w owns sgi? if apple does buy a|w they get sgi as well.

[dongmin]

Enlighten me here but I don't know what'd be so great about Apple buying out Maya. It's a limited market. At best, Apple could turn it into a nice little niche app that generates some cash. But I don't see much potential for turning it into a consumer app like Apple did with FCP and iMovie. I want killer consumer apps and added market share.

[menoinjun]

Originally posted by 3rdpath
digidesign is owned by avid and avid has no tie-in to alias/wavefront.

My apologies...I confused the two companies. You should have heard my hand hit my forehead a second ago. <doh!>

-Pete

Definetly wishful thinking.

[Gelfin]

This is a total guess, but my mutant press release sense is telling me that they're going to slash the price of professional-grade Maya to a few grand, and release a consumer/small-organization version at $999 or so. Newtek just recently lopped about 40% off the price of Lightwave, I believe. This may be the new trend.

[ear2ear]

Originally posted by teabgs

Imagine if Apple owned it and then it was able to be used on cxheaper systems without add ons..... And iMusic app. for the consumers.....imagine the press....

Its called ProTools Free:

http://www.digidesign.com/ptfree/

8tracks, all the digirack plugs, D-verb for $50, etc

[lera]

Originally posted by dongmin
Enlighten me here but I don't know what'd be so great about Apple buying out Maya. It's a limited market. At best, Apple could turn it into a nice little niche app that generates some cash. But I don't see much potential for turning it into a consumer app like Apple did with FCP and iMovie. I want killer consumer apps and added market share.

Apple is a hardware company first and foremost. The good thing here is that software solutionns for 3D are the graphics fad now. If Apple has control of A|W's 3D aps they can make the mac versions so awsome (or the pc versions so bad) that EVERY pro graphics person has to buy a mac.

[Scottgfx]

I snipped some info from the Alias|Wavefront site...

OS X Exclusive Event, San Francisco
March 28, 2002, 9:00 a.m - 6:00 p.m
Location:
SFSU downtown - Multimedia Studies Program
425 Market Street, 2nd Floor,
San Francisco, CA 94105

Join us for this FREE day-long event to introduce you to various solutions available to the creative community on Mac OS X. See how OS X will improve your workflow and make you more productive. Adobe, Apple, Alias|Wavefront, procreate, Wacom and others will demonstrate their latest software and hardware available on OS X.

...End snippit

It's an event sponsored by Apple. Hmmmm.

[Kela]

Umm RTARDS!1 what proof do u have that apple will purchase A/W?? LOL! If anyone will it would be Sony with more liquid capital ready than any one. So pulleaase

[Ensign Paris]

Looks like Kela is back.

I hope do buy this company, it would make alot of sense for them to buy a 3D graphics company so they can make OSX the ultimate 3D platform.

Ensign

[Ifeelbloated]

You guys may damn me to hell for saying this but what if Microsoft gets a hold of Maya?

[arn]

or maybe just a significant price cut...

that might fit...

arn

[Pants]

Originally posted by arn
or maybe just a significant price cut...

that might fit...

arn

theres been rumblings from SGI of late, so if its not the above (or merely a new version of maya...) then I would put a bet on SGI being involved, not apple.

[G4scott]

Originally posted by Ifeelbloated
You guys may damn me to hell for saying this but what if Microsoft gets a hold of Maya?

Crap. That's what I'd say. That and a bunch of other strongly worded phrases with lots of four letter words.

I think we all know that when Microsoft gets software from someone else, and doesn't know how it works, and they try to mess around with it, the results are tragically disastorous. That's why the only reasonably good m$ app is Office. All of the rest suck, because m$ didn't really create them. they either stole them (windows) or they bought them.

But seriously, I doubt that m$ would want to buy a major 3d graphics software company. But if they do, I'll be dammed.

[Mr. Anderson]

A couple of quotes from the original post

3D animation technology is increasingly becoming a part of our daily lives. It is fast spreading from the entertainment and design industries
into new marketplaces.

*BIG NEWS: hear how Alias|Wavefront is about to shake up the industry


It seems possible that a consumer version and or severe price reduction could be in the works, but to shake up the industry, I think that would take more.

Look at who is in the game (the main players)

Lightwave - just reduced their price and they have an entry level system, Imagine 3D, originally a PC only system until v 5.0, current v 7.0b, and not all 3rd party plugins work with a Mac. Works on OS 9 and OSX.

3DMax - PC only, very wide spread

SoftImage - considered by some to be the best out there, offers lisencing at a yearly rate - you don't just buy it straight off the shelf and keep paying them on a regular basis.

A/W Maya - a seat for the Mac goes for just under $6k, and it doensn't have all the features of the PC version. But Apple has been courting them since the initial port to OSX. A/W is also offering PC users Maya Unlimited at Maya Complete Prices ($7500.00) Then there's support....

If it was just a price reduction, well, Lightwave beat them to it.

In 2 1/2 hours, the speculation will be over.

[clith]

I worked at Alias|Wavefront from 1989 through 1997. A|W has been owned by SGI since 1995 or so. Before that there were two separate comanies, Alias Research and Wavefront.

But seriously, I doubt that m$ would want to buy a major 3d graphics software company. But if they do, I'll be dammed.

Well, you've already been damned, because MS did buy SoftImage, A|W's main competitor some time around 1996. Of course, they then sold them again, but that's beside the point. :-)

Rumors of someone [*anyone*] buying A|W have been floating around ever since 1998, when SGI's stock price started going down. SGI's started doing better these days, though.

Regarding Apple's liquid capital -- they have $4 Billion in the bank, so buying companies [especially in this post-dont-com world of discounted stocks] is pretty easy for them.

My hope is that expressed by the main post -- that Apple buys A|W for Maya and discounts it to under $1k a la Final Cut. But that may just be wishful thinking on my part.

Did you know that A|W sold a 3D modeller/renderer for MacOS in 1991-1993? It was called "Alias Sketch!" [including the "!"], and sold for $699. Most of that code ended up in Maya, so it would be a long road home if this came true..

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by clith
My hope is that expressed by the main post -- that Apple buys A|W for Maya and discounts it to under $1k a la Final Cut.

I'll be surprised if they go that low, but if it does happen, well, that would send tremors through the industry.

I'd buy a copy today!

[BOOMBA]

You are all missing the reason I was excited about this and sent it in.

the line inthe release that says:
"*BIG NEWS: hear how Alias|Wavefront is about to shake up the industry"

SHAKE?

Didn't Apple buy Shake from Discreet?

Maybe they are partnering on some intergration of Shake and MAya?

-BOOMBA:D

[irmongoose]

Originally posted by BOOMBA
You are all missing the reason I was excited about this and sent it in.

the line inthe release that says:
"*BIG NEWS: hear how Alias|Wavefront is about to shake up the industry"

SHAKE?

Didn't Apple buy Shake from Discreet?

Maybe they are partnering on some intergration of Shake and MAya?

-BOOMBA:D

ah. clever thinking. clever thinking indeed.

:D



irmongoose

[ravephase]

Originally posted by irmongoose


ah. clever thinking. clever thinking indeed.

:D



irmongoose

except for the fact that Shake is made by the company Nothing Real and NOT discreet...

[McFreggle]

First the 23" display, then the software to make optimal use of that spectacular resolution... Makes sense!

[Timothy]

Personally...I think the 3D market is much too small a niche for Apple to tackle. FCP works because video is a huge market; my guess is that 3D is perhaps 1/30th the size of video.

iMovie works because everyone can imagine a use for video. Everyone has video cameras with footage they know not what to do with.

i3D? Very few people ever think "I need a simple way to do 3D!" It just doesn't happen.

The PRO 3D market, again, is too small a field for Apple to go after.

I'd more readily believe that they would go after the Pro Audio Market long before they would go after the Pro 3D market. They'd leave that to Pixar.

I think this is a rumor manufactured out of thin air.

[agreenster]

Wow. This IS interesting.

First off, I have a feeling this announcement could be HUGE, or it could be tiny. Somehow I doubt there will be much of a middle ground. If Apple does buy A|W, it will be a first step in making 3D accessible to everyone for a small amount of money. But dont forget people, 3D is still amazingly expansive, huge, complicated, and more high-end than most of us can realize (a'la marrionette and renderman, both very code-y programs Pixar made). It can also be amazingly simple. (a'la Cinema4D by Maxon) However, Maya kind of sits in the fray as a quasi-simple, yet very high-end program, used widely by animation studios.

So where does Apple sit in all this? Not in Hollywood. I doubt ANY studio in their right mind will take up Apple as their #1 system for animation and rendering, especially when SGI and SUN control the market for animation and rendering respectively. I mean, a 2500.00 dollar PowerMac can simply NOT do what a 17grand O2 can do made by SGI, and Apple doesnt make a quad-processor, rack-mount server designed specifically for rendering like Sun does. There are highly specialized, expensive systems designed to do these jobs for studios who need this type of performance. An Apple couldnt keep up the workload, at least not yet. They dont even have a 64 bit chip yet, whereas SGI has had 64 bit chips available for years. Their computers are just faster.

HOWEVER, I think it is possible that Apple could be aiming at personal, or small-business animation studios (or students), and are devising ways to bring Maya to the masses.

And that only brings up one more dilemma: Why would Alias|Wavefront NEED Apple to do this for them?

[agreenster]

...Some of the featured products include Illustrator 10, InDesign 2,
Maya, Painter, KnockOut 2, KPT Effects and Wacom graphic
tablets, including the new Cintiq LCD graphic tablet. You will see
how these solutions work on the latest Apple hardware, like the new
G4's, iMac's, Titanium PowerBook's and software like the iPhoto,
iDVD, QuickTime, WebDAV and more.

Play with all these solutions and others like Dantz Software's
Retrospect and Xerox printers in our Exhibition area. Interact with
the experts and know why OS X is right for you!

Agenda
9:00 a.m. - 10:00 a.m. Explore OS X
10:00 a.m. - 11:00 a.m. procreate: Painter, KnockOut 2,
KPT Effects
11:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. Exhibition
1:00 p.m. - 2:00 p.m. Adobe: Publishing Workflow
2:00 p.m. - 3:00 p.m. Alias|Wavefront: Maya on the Mac
3:00 p.m. - 4:00 p.m. Apple Digital Workflow
4:00 p.m. - 6:00 p.m. Exhibition

This is what wasnt included in one of the posts above about the OSX sponsored event on alias|wavefronts site. I am beginning to suspect that this is just an OSX demo/learning event, nothing more.

[Mr. Anderson]

A while back there was a simillar post talking about an Apple - Alias/Wavefront buyout. One of the things Apple could use 3D for is integrating it with FCP - like Newtek does with their Video Toaster and Lightwave. Adding 3D transistions, 3D text, mapping image/video to 3D objects is done all the time. Putting it in at the consumer level would be great. I have lightwave now and if I want to put a movie in a 3D scene I have to do the work in FCP, export it as a quicktime movie, load it into Lightwave, render...., then bring it back to FCP for post production. This is not the best workflow, so by putting it all together, well, it just makes sense.

And then add Shake in the mix, well it starts to get even better. The only problem is taking all these programs and getting them to work together. Even if it did all happen, Shake, Maya and FCP, it would quite some time before we actually saw a hybrid system available.

30 min. and we know more.

[georgemasters]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=711&u=/usatoday/20020328/tc_usatoday/3977471

[agreenster]

Yep. Leave it to us Mac people to get all our hopes up. We always get so excited, and then its always a price cut, or less than what we expected. (Im horrible at doing this)

However, Maya Unlimited for 6,900 is a bargain beyond bargains! Good for Alias|Wavefront!! I hope they increase sales.

[Ensign Paris]

Alias/Wavefront to debut new product; cut prices
March 28 - 09:17 ET**3D graphics developer Alias/Wavefront is expected to announce a new product later today and at the same time make drastic price cuts on two of its most popular products. USA TODAY is reporting the company will cut the price of Maya Complete to US$2,000 from $7,500 and Maya Unlimited to $7,000 from $16,000. Details of the new product have not been released and a press conference is scheduled for later today.


(From MacMinute)

Ensign

[mcrain]

Wow, that lived up to all the hype.

[BOOMBA]

Actually it ISN'T lame, that price cut is VERY big news.
Not anything revolutionary, though, other than more people will have access to it.
But DAMN I wanted Apple to buy Maya so badly.
Oh well.
I doubt Apple will buy Lightwave now, because if they did, there would be no reason for Maya to keep supporting OSX. Apple would make Lightwave work better than Maya on the Mac.

This also means Lightwave could be in serious trouble.

I think the big name of Maya at Lightwave prices could cause some people to switch...

[Ifeelbloated]

Maya Complete for $1999
HOLY FOOKING SHEE-OT!:eek:

[Catfish_Man]

Originally posted by dongmin
Enlighten me here but I don't know what'd be so great about Apple buying out Maya. It's a limited market. At best, Apple could turn it into a nice little niche app that generates some cash. But I don't see much potential for turning it into a consumer app like Apple did with FCP and iMovie. I want killer consumer apps and added market share.

...is FCP a consumer app? iMovie (free) is a consumer app, FCP ($999) is a pro app. Sorta like Bryce 5 ($300) is a consumer app, and Lightwave/Maya/3D Studio Max (>$2500) are pro apps. Also, Shake (which Apple just bought) is a pro app ($10,000).

[Mr. Anderson]

has any played with the free version of Maya?

I'm downloading it now, 150 meg, should take 30-50 min.

It should be interesting to see if there truly is an 3D animation explosion with all this price lowering. 3D is still a very demanding and complicated design system, you can't just get some software and start making Shrek.

Its too bad Apple wasn't involved.

[kidtronix]

yes sir apple to buy alias|wavefront and then next mwsf we see a super computer called g5 which will cost about the same as a low end sgi, yoink!

[georgemasters]

A lower cost maya means they need to sell more seats. I suspect many small studios will switch at this price point because of Maya's rich tool set including paint effects. There is no free version of lightwave which should encourage many consumers and prosumers to choose Maya as the beginning of their upgrade path. Mac users in particular should seriously consider Maya over Lightwave because the user experience is more Mac like The tools sets make more sense and the UI is aquafied. While Maya is a deep and complex program I learned it MUCH quicker than lightwave. The Lightwave ui is a hold over from the amiga days and very linux like. It's composed of two separate programs linked by a hub. Your constantly loading plug-ins, fixing crashes and searching for tools. (ex- the knife tool is under the construct tab because you are "constructing new geomerty by dividing it in half). In almost every other major program cutting means taking away something. The only thing I liked about Lightwave more than Maya was the render engine. Ultimately a skilled artist will be able to produce a quality project in either program, it just a matter of how your gonna get there. For me that is Maya.:o

[Gelfin]

Originally posted by agreenster
I mean, a 2500.00 dollar PowerMac can simply NOT do what a 17grand O2 can do made by SGI

Uh, the biggest problem that SGI is seeing these days is that a 17grand O2 is still a 300MHz R12K, and $2500 machines can actually compete pretty damn well these days. Studios are backing away from SGI workstations for this reason. SGI's ability to provide fully integrated solutions (with big servers) is pretty much the only thing keeping studios from swarming away like rats from a sinking ship.

[Gelfin]

Originally posted by Gelfin
This is a total guess, but my mutant press release sense is telling me that they're going to slash the price of professional-grade Maya to a few grand, and release a consumer/small-organization version at $999 or so. Newtek just recently lopped about 40% off the price of Lightwave, I believe. This may be the new trend.

Okay, so I was off on the low-end pricing, but what do I win? :D

[dongmin]

I still don't understand what all the fuss is about. I use 3DStudio Max/Form-Z/Lightwave almost everyday and I find the whole 3D modelling/rendering/animation thing tedious and time-consuming.
Lowering prices and making it more financially "accessible" won't change that. 3D won't have anywhere near the impact that desktop-publishing or digital video has had. Is there that much potential for hardware sales here?

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by dongmin
I use 3DStudio Max/Form-Z/Lightwave almost everyday and I find the whole 3D modelling/rendering/animation thing tedious and time-consuming.

You use it everyday and you think its boring? I'll agree on the time consuming part, but what is it you're doing that can be so blah?