[XB360] HD DVD now $179 w/ 5 free movies!

[gkarris]

Wow, now it's an AWESOME deal!!!


http://www.news.com/

Microsoft cuts Xbox DVD player to $179

By Reuters
http://news.com.com/Microsoft+cuts+Xbox+DVD+player+to+179/2100-1041_3-6198919.html

Story last modified Thu Jul 26 06:37:44 PDT 2007


Microsoft said on Thursday it would lower the price of the high-definition DVD player accessory for its Xbox 360 game console in the United States to $179 from $199, and add five free movies to anyone who buys the machine in August or September.

HD DVD is a next-generation technology developed by Toshiba and backed by Microsoft and film studios including Warner Bros. It competes with Blu-ray, a DVD system from Sony, which is built into its PlayStation 3 game console, an Xbox rival.

Attaching the players to popular game consoles is seen by both camps as a way to get the technology into millions of homes, and pique consumers' interest.

A mass market for high-definition video is still some way off, due in part to the high price of the devices. Blu-ray and HD DVD are battling for domination in a war reminiscent of the VHS-Betamax battle of the 1970s and 1980s. That war was won by VHS after about a decade.

Rival Sony cut the price of its PS3 game console earlier this month to ignite demand. Sony and Microsoft are in a three-way battle with Nintendo, which makes the popular Wii game console, for control of a $30 billion video game market.


Story Copyright © 2007 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.



Copyright ©1995-2007 CNET Networks, Inc. All rights reserved.

[mkrishnan]

Are there any rumors of an XBox where the *internal* drive is an HD-DVD? That isn't available right now, is it?

[gkarris]

Are there any rumors of an XBox where the *internal* drive is an HD-DVD? That isn't available right now, is it?

No, not right now. I think that MS will first put cooler running chips in the system. Then, a price drop. Then over Christmas or next year maybe a 4th HD Elite system with HD DVD built in (to bring it back up to the $479).

My predictions:

Core, $249
Premium, $349
Elite, $429
HD Elite, $479 (?)

[iKwick7]

Are there any rumors of an XBox where the *internal* drive is an HD-DVD? That isn't available right now, is it?

Not available now, no. There have been rummors, we'll see what happens. I wouldn't imagine it happenin though, at least not soon- especially since they just released the "Elite" Xbox 360 which doesn't have one.

[applekid]

Microsoft isn't completely behind the HD-DVD format yet. They're keeping it optional and external for a reason.

I'm tempted, but I hear Blu-Ray is still more popular.

[iKwick7]

Microsoft isn't completely behind the HD-DVD format yet. They're keeping it optional and external for a reason.

I'm tempted, but I hear Blu-Ray is still more popular.

I'm afraid you're right. Recently most Blockbusters have gone Blue Ray only and Target has gone Blue Ray systems only (not including the 360 drive). Ho hum. We'll see, but it is looking like Blue Ray at the moment.

[gkarris]

Microsoft isn't completely behind the HD-DVD format yet. They're keeping it optional and external for a reason.

I'm tempted, but I hear Blu-Ray is still more popular.

Before this turns into a Format War flame, just look at the movies you want to watch and get that format.

I was watching "King Kong" at a hotel 25" TV last night in fullscreen and it's a total waste. I'm used to the HD DVD!

[wwooden]

Nice to see a price cut, not enough though I don't think. I mean, you can buy stand alone HD-DVD players now for under $300, some places selling them for around $225 online. And these have far more features and options than this single drive that can only be used with the 360. You can also get the 5 free discs with these drives as well.

I already have the drive so it doesn't affect me, but I was hoping it would drop to around $130 to encourage more to buy the format.

I also read that Microsoft might lower the price of the 360 by $50 in August.

I think they price they should hit if they want to stay competitive with PS3 as it acquires more games should be:

Xbox 360 Premium: $325-350
Xbox 360 Elite: $400
HD-DVD Drive: $130
Wireless Adapter: $50

That way, if you buy all the components, it will cost the same as the PS3 or less.

[phanboyjohn]

Even with the price drop, I'd stay away. Blu-ray may not win soon, but every indicator (IMHO) makes it very obvious that the format war has been decided, barring some ridiculous event that's highly improbable, like mass studio defection. Go with a Blu-ray player, or stay out of the format wars. But for goodness sakes, PLEASE PLEASE don't buy HD-DVD. You'll shoot yourself in the foot $500 later (admittedly, this could be a year or so down the road) when you have a nice outdated drive and useless HD-DVD discs.

[fishkorp]

decent price, but just pay the extra for a standalone. you can get the A2 player for $199 online (with 5 free movies) or the A20 (1080p version) for $249 after $50 off coupon at Staples (also with 5 free movies). for a few bucks more you have a player that you don't need attached to another $300+ piece of equipment.

[wwooden]

Even with the price drop, I'd stay away. Blu-ray may not win soon, but every indicator (IMHO) makes it very obvious that the format war has been decided, barring some ridiculous event that's highly improbable, like mass studio defection. Go with a Blu-ray player, or stay out of the format wars. But for goodness sakes, PLEASE PLEASE don't buy HD-DVD. You'll shoot yourself in the foot $500 later (admittedly, this could be a year or so down the road) when you have a nice outdated drive and useless HD-DVD discs.

How are they useless? if you have the drive and the discs, they aren't going to all the sudden stop playing. $180 for a drive is not as big an investment as $500 for a player. If HD-DVD does end up dying, I am ok with it, lots of the movies I want are already out in HD-DVD. And I figure that the price of the combo players (Blu-Ray/ HD-DVD) will also come down in price and then I can play all my discs.

[Dagless]

I wonder if we'll get the same treatment? A friend picked up the HD-DVD player a few weeks ago for £99 (IIRC) at Gamestation. £99 and 5 films would be interesting if the choice was decent.

[e²Studios]

HD DVD is dead, hell at the local best buy they were stuffed in the corner with clearance prices while the blu ray players were full focus.

Circuit City is about the same way, most retailers in fact.

M$ isn't stupid enough to integrate HD DVD in to their systems, or at least i hope they aren't. Then again they didn't think twice about using shoddy hardware on their devices so...

Ed

[Sky Blue]

The 360 Blu-Ray drive is going to be announced any day now....

[gkarris]

HD DVD is dead, hell at the local best buy they were stuffed in the corner with clearance prices while the blu ray players were full focus.

Ed

I remember people saying the same thing about DVD-R/RW discs and drives...

[e²Studios]

I remember people saying the same thing about DVD-R/RW discs and drives...

I never remember stores shunning it like they are HD DVD though. Nor do i remember seeing DVD players in the Clearance section so soon in its lifespan. DVD had backing, HD DVD doesnt, thats basically the bottom line.

Ed

[zero2dash]

The price drop is nice, but I'd rather put the money towards a Ps3, honestly.

I have no desire to go buy a hi def DVD player right now, but if I had money burning a hole in my pocket and had to buy one or the other, I'd get a BluRay player (Ps3 specifically since they are the cheapest BD players around). BluRay has much better studio support...the only movies I've seen as HD-DVD exclusive that I would miss on BluRay would be the Matrix trilogy, and I'm sure at some point down the road that Warner will go BluRay as well.

I don't know what the penetration numbers or studio %s are, but I know BluRay is dominating so far...

[Dagless]

The only store here "shunning" HD-DVD is Sony's UK puppy; HMV. Whereas my local Sainbury's and a few other shops only stock HD-DVD...

[Coded-Dude]

Warner Brothers does support Blu-Ray....Universal is the only HD-DVD exclusive studio.

Matrix Trilogy is planned for BD release, but still has no date.
That may have been a "timed exclusive" deal WB signed, but they definitely support both formats.

WB BD Movie list (http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/movies.php?studioid=9)

[zero2dash]

Warner Brothers does support Blu-Ray....Universal is the only HD-DVD exclusive studio.

Matrix Trilogy is planned for BD release, but still has no date.
That may have been a "timed exclusive" deal WB signed, but they definitely support both formats.

Sweet...thanks for the info. That gives me hope for when I do eventually own a Ps3 sometime (probably next year). ;)

[phanboyjohn]

How are they useless? if you have the drive and the discs, they aren't going to all the sudden stop playing. $180 for a drive is not as big an investment as $500 for a player. If HD-DVD does end up dying, I am ok with it, lots of the movies I want are already out in HD-DVD. And I figure that the price of the combo players (Blu-Ray/ HD-DVD) will also come down in price and then I can play all my discs.

This is a great point, wwooden, so let me clarify here--by "useless," I meant to me personally. I'd get really frustrated with maintaining a system that the rest of the world isn't supporting (I guess something like being a Linux user up until recently, or being a laserdisc owner or something), but the discs are by no means useless. Me personally, I wouldn't want to deal with that, as I'm buying something that's not really even a little bit futureproof. For convenience and mental organization, I just like having everything in one format (one plug into the TV, less clutter, etc.), and this way avoid rebuying discs if my current player goes kaput, or similar situations. It's a little thing, but I still wouldn't want to deal with it. Like with many things though, this is just IMHO, and if you don't mind having HD-DVDs around, then definitely no problem.

[MacRumorUser]

1 format will win the 'battle'

Neither format will win the 'war'


Philips DCC & MiniDisc
DVD-Audio - SACD
VCD - LaserDisc


Higher Quality does not always = successor or adoption
There just is not enough 'mainstream' interest in either format from the populace as there was for DVD. It's going to be years before the price breaks the sub $100 barrier and by that time.....

In 3-4 years time we will see a new format, one that sneaks in from the underground. Will be easier to distribute, cheaper to obtain and then the WAR will finally be won, and HD-DVD and BluRay will dissapear from our collective consciousness as quickly as they did or didnt enter.


MP3 did it...... Whatever comes next in video world will do the same.

People don't necessarily mind lower quality as long as its easier/cheaper.
Besides with these new codecs - we will see great strides in compression technologies so that HD movies will come down in file size astronomically, and the quality difference between the download and the disc version will be insignificant to most eyes.


Mark my words...... Both are redundant technology

Even for storage the future is not with an 'optical' format. It is with cheap 'solid state' memory. 4 or 5 years time, bigger storage will be available on small solid state devices at around the same cost.


Even SONY have said they envision the next PS4 to not have an optical drive at all. They envision digital distribution, and given the success of the PSN Store / Live Store / VC Store it's obvious THAT IS THE FUTURE.... Step on board ;)

[mrgreen4242]

Even with the price drop, I'd stay away. Blu-ray may not win soon, but every indicator (IMHO) makes it very obvious that the format war has been decided, barring some ridiculous event that's highly improbable, like mass studio defection. Go with a Blu-ray player, or stay out of the format wars. But for goodness sakes, PLEASE PLEASE don't buy HD-DVD. You'll shoot yourself in the foot $500 later (admittedly, this could be a year or so down the road) when you have a nice outdated drive and useless HD-DVD discs.

HD DVD is dead, hell at the local best buy they were stuffed in the corner with clearance prices while the blu ray players were full focus.

Circuit City is about the same way, most retailers in fact.

M$ isn't stupid enough to integrate HD DVD in to their systems, or at least i hope they aren't. Then again they didn't think twice about using shoddy hardware on their devices so...

Ed

Wait 'till Walmart has its say. Whatever these other stores do won't matter a bit until Walmart moves. There's talk of them having an exclusive low priced HDDVD drive as early as this year, and since HDDVD players are already $199 some places, that could mean a $149 or $99 by the end of the year.

If they do start selling a Walmart only HDDVD player, they very well may also start selling only HDDVDs and not BD. If that happens, expect every studio except Sony to start making HDDVDs sooner or later.

Even so, I do think that digital distribution will supplant discs before the HDDVD/BD fiasco sorts itself out. How it will all play out I'm not sure, but I sense the end of physical media is nearing.

[Coded-Dude]

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. While I agree I think the next step will probably be Digital distribution......it is still a long way off for other less technologically advanced countries. Plus not everyone has the internet in the technologically advanced countries. I personally can't wait, but think we'll see an optical format for at least the next 20 years(globally).

[steamboat26]

It may be a "dead" format, but that's not a bad deal, and i can think of at least 5 HD-DVDs worth getting...
Anyone know if you can use it with Macs?

[barr08]

It may be a "dead" format, but that's not a bad deal, and i can think of at least 5 HD-DVDs worth getting...
Anyone know if you can use it with Macs?

Yeah there is a way to do this. I think it is even explained somewhere around these parts, though I'm far too lazy to find it myself.

[Dagless]

Even SONY have said they envision the next PS4 to not have an optical drive at all. They envision digital distribution, and given the success of the PSN Store / Live Store / VC Store it's obvious THAT IS THE FUTURE.... Step on board ;)

Even me (and IIRC you too!) on a 512kbps connection - I can see Digital Distrobution as the future. I don't mind waiting for a game to download.

Maybe it's a little too outside the box, but what if all the next systems had detachable HDD's or flash drive, you simply take that with you to a shop and through wireless jiggery pokery they can send the game to your drive as you buy it.

Take away optical drives and you have quieter, cheaper and smaller systems, less power usage, cooler temperatures, hell if it's a big flash drive= no moving parts.
The DS already has wireless download stations in shops. Simply take that a step further.

[barr08]

Even SONY have said they envision the next PS4 to not have an optical drive at all. They envision digital distribution, and given the success of the PSN Store / Live Store / VC Store it's obvious THAT IS THE FUTURE.... Step on board ;)

Steam anyone? I love the way that works.

[GFLPraxis]

Hmmm...

Okay, HD-DVD is currently losing. If one already has a 360, though, $179 for the HD-DVD drive with five movies is not a bad deal at all. Since the movies cost over $20 apiece, you're paying less than $79 for the drive, assuming you want those movies.


Even with the price drop, I'd stay away. Blu-ray may not win soon, but every indicator (IMHO) makes it very obvious that the format war has been decided, barring some ridiculous event that's highly improbable, like mass studio defection. Go with a Blu-ray player, or stay out of the format wars. But for goodness sakes, PLEASE PLEASE don't buy HD-DVD. You'll shoot yourself in the foot $500 later (admittedly, this could be a year or so down the road) when you have a nice outdated drive and useless HD-DVD discs.

$500? We're talking about a $179 drive with >$100 in movies.

I agree with the stay out of the format wars sentiment though.

However, I wouldn't say that HD-DVD winning requires an improbable ridiculous event. While Blu-ray DOES have a large lead over HD-DVD, this is relatively speaking. From an absolute standpoint, neither formats have sold well at all, Blu-ray has just sucked less.

If HD-DVD hits $99 before Blu-ray does, it could easily rapidly overtake Blu-ray because suddenly ma and pa are willing to pay for it. Currently, only early adopters and PS3 owners have one of the two formats.

[Coded-Dude]

.....as James Carville would say, it's all about the content, stupid. :p

I would have to argue that unless HD DVD gets some of those BD exclusive studios to support both formats....the war is over. Universal may or may not be under a timed contract right now, but either way, I think sooner or later they will give in and support both formats.

[Dagless]

It's a shame BlueRay might win. Boo to Region Locking and required DRM.

[GFLPraxis]

It may be a "dead" format, but that's not a bad deal, and i can think of at least 5 HD-DVDs worth getting...
Anyone know if you can use it with Macs?

You can, and the Mac OS recognizes it, but it has nothing to play HD-DVD (DVD Player only supports SD).

It should work fine on Leopard, though, as Leopard's DVD player supports HD.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. While I agree I think the next step will probably be Digital distribution......it is still a long way off for other less technologically advanced countries. Plus not everyone has the internet in the technologically advanced countries. I personally can't wait, but think we'll see an optical format for at least the next 20 years(globally).

Sorry, but that's crap. Everyone envisions digital distribution as the next logical step, and it's simply not there. Maybe in ten years.

I live in a fairly major city in the area with maybe a half million people. We're fairly modern; health network second to none, and a 100-block WiFi network covering the entire downtown area.

I live in the northmost section of the city. I can drive for twenty minutes north and be in a neighboring city where no one has internet access unless they can afford insane satellite prices with bad bandwidth, or go with dialup, because no DSL or cable are offered. That's twenty minutes away, and it's an entire city.

Even in the city I know tons of people who don't have broadband. Considering that a DVD player is @ $30-$50 compared to broadband which is $25-$50 per month, and extra hardware is required to use more than one piece of equipment with broadband and it's harder for ma and pa to set up...nobody is going to get broadband just for movies if there is a physical alternative available.

iTunes is rapidly eclipsing everyone for music sales, but that's because music is much faster and more convenient to download, and music DRM is nowhere near as restrictive (aka, you can back it up to a physical disk and take it with you in the car or to a friend's house). Meanwhile, movie DRM is ridiculously restrictive (no backing up a hard copy that can be watched at a friend's house, it will only play on your computer and a portable player, and only of a certain type), movies take a lot longer to download and can't be purchased over dialup, etc.

Most people I know with game consoles don't even bother hooking them up to the internet.

Digital Distribution will not be the norm until broadband is everywhere affordably and so cost-effective and useful that everyone will want to have it, not just computer nerds. Like TV.

That won't happen in the next four years.

[GFLPraxis]

.....as James Carville would say, it's all about the content, stupid. :p

I would have to argue that unless HD DVD gets some of those BD exclusive studios to support both formats....the war is over. Universal may or may not be under a timed contract right now, but either way, I think sooner or later they will give in and support both formats.

Yet you support the PS3, which currently lacks content, only promising later exclusives.

If HD-DVD drops into the affordable-by-mom-and-pop range, studios will definitely keep producing titles as the users will be there.

[e²Studios]

Yet you support the PS3, which currently lacks content, only promising later exclusives.

Yet you support the Wii, which currently lacks content, online play, next gen graphics, more than 2 channels of audio, only promising later exclusives.

It goes both ways ;)

[steamboat26]

Yet you support the Wii, which currently lacks content, online play, next gen graphics, more than 2 channels of audio, only promising later exclusives.

It goes both ways ;)

True, but people who support nintendo know that exclusives are coming, because it has sold so well, look at the DS. The PS3 has sold poorly, which isn't very encouraging for developers to create or keep exclusives for it ;)

[e²Studios]

True, but people who support nintendo know that exclusives are coming, because it has sold so well, look at the DS. The PS3 has sold poorly, which isn't very encouraging for developers to create or keep exclusives for it ;)

Yea.. look at that PS3 software release lineup, it sure is lacking alright ;) So lacking that most the games are on the top ten most wanted list in Japan, as opposed to the Wii which had 1 or 2 :)

Considering Nintendo's recent past in the console market I am more fearful on the Wii investment than my PS3.

Ed

[Coded-Dude]

Boo to Region Locking .
Coming from a stark Nintendo loyalist......:p

Yet you support the PS3, which currently lacks content, only promising later exclusives.
15 exclusive(mostly first party) titles by the end of the year. I have foresight. ;)
Either you were jsut making a jab or didn't understand the scope of my comment, either way, I don't think there is a need to clarify studio support in the Optical format war. (as it is self explanatory)

Blu-Ray has (out of the major studios) Sony (Columbia, Tri Star, Sony Pictures Classics), Buena Vista (including Hollywood Pictures, Touchstone Pictures, Walt Disney Pictures, I believe some Dimension), Warner Brothers, Paramount Pictures, and Lionsgate. HD-DVD has WB, Paramount, and Universal. They also have the Weinstien Company, but that's not a big loss for Blu-Ray.

I think both formats still lack content as well, but I still have foresight enough to pick one that will have all the content I will want......

[wwooden]

It may be a "dead" format, but that's not a bad deal, and i can think of at least 5 HD-DVDs worth getting...
Anyone know if you can use it with Macs?

Sorta another reason why I don't mind if in the end HD-DVD dies.....all the movies out there will be very cheap to get. Look at UMD movies now, you can find them in every bargain bin in every store. Now would be a great time to get a bunch of movies for your PSP.

[Dagless]

Coming from a stark Nintendo loyalist......:p

Wii modchip says hi.
DS and GBA region free.

Points for effort.

Yea.. look at that PS3 software release lineup, it sure is lacking alright ;) So lacking that most the games are on the top ten most wanted list in Japan, as opposed to the Wii which had 1 or 2 :)

Considering Nintendo's recent past in the console market I am more fearful on the Wii investment than my PS3.

Ed

Sky-rocketting Wii and DS software and hardware sales say hi. Listening to public opinion polls? You must check out Gamefaqs polls and nexgenwars (http://nexgenwars.com/) if these polls matter so much to you.

Yet you support the Wii, which currently lacks content, online play, next gen graphics, more than 2 channels of audio, only promising later exclusives.

It goes both ways ;)

Praxis didn't talk about lack of content, you should bring that up against Z2D. But he's probably too busy with his content-bursting 360.
Oh, and Wii and DS (since it's inferior to the PSP) software sales dominating charts worldwide, all say hi. So much for lack of content!

[e²Studios]

Wii modchip says hi.
DS and GBA region free.

Points for effort.

PS3 is region free for games out of the box

Points for effort "lollipops"

Ed

[Coded-Dude]

so we are condoning piracy eh?

I'm glad I can import a game from any region and KNOW it will play on my console without having to "mod" the hardware. Nintendo Wii = Region locked = BOO(by your definition)

[barr08]

Wii modchip says hi.
DS and GBA region free.

Points for effort.

Yeah, pretty terrible argument when you are defending something that needs the purchase and installation of a modchip to something that already supports that stuff out of the box...

The tone thats your reply has and the fact that it got shot down so hard just makes me warn inside.

[Coded-Dude]

Jimmi must have moved into one of thos infamous glass houses. :p

[GFLPraxis]

Yet you support the Wii, which currently lacks content, online play, next gen graphics, more than 2 channels of audio, only promising later exclusives.

It goes both ways ;)


I say: "PS3 lacks exclusives currently but will have them later on. So does HD-DVD. Meanwhile, Blu-ray and XBox 360 have the current content. Your reasons for bashing HD-DVD also applies to the PS3."

You respond: "The Wii is like the PS3!"

I respond with this post: "Duh, which is why I'm not supporting Blu-ray."

Miss the point much?


Honestly, I don't care much which wins. I'm just not writing off HD-DVD. I think whichever hits $99 first will have a HUGE boost in sales and since they've both sold like crap so far (Blu-ray selling like less crap) that boost could switch the tide suddenly or firmly cement the winner.

[Dagless]

so we are condoning piracy eh?

Please tell me where I said anything about piracy. I have a feeling I'll be waiting all day for an answer before you retract your misquote.

Yeah, pretty terrible argument when you are defending something that needs the purchase and installation of a modchip to something that already supports that stuff out of the box...

But it doesn't support region-free out the box :confused: BlueRay is region locked. HD-DVD isn't. Out of curiosity, can a PS3 from the US play European PS2 or PS1 games? Just wondering.

[GFLPraxis]

Coming from a stark Nintendo loyalist......:p


None of us will defend Nintendo's region-locking on the Wii. It's definitely a valid point against Blu-ray, I'd have been willing to pay extra for a Wii without region lock.

[2nyRiggz]

True, but people who support nintendo know that exclusives are coming, because it has sold so well, look at the DS. The PS3 has sold poorly, which isn't very encouraging for developers to create or keep exclusives for it ;)

Do I really need to jump in and tell you how crazy this sounds?


We love going in circles at MR...I chase you, you chase me..wash rinse and repeat.



Bless

[Dagless]

I say: "PS3 lacks exclusives but promises more later on. So does HD-DVD. Meanwhile, Blu-ray and XBox 360 have the current content. Your reasons for bashing HD-DVD also applies to the PS3."

You respond: "The Wii is like the PS3!"

I respond with this post: "Duh, which is why I'm supporting HD-DVD."

Miss the point much?

They seem to use arguments that can be easily shot back at themselves, but they won't see it that way.

[Coded-Dude]

How does HD DVD promis MORE exclusive later on when it has already lost most of(everything but Universal pretty much) it exclusive studios. If anything Blu-Ray has the most potential for winning the "content war" of the "optical format war."

[Coded-Dude]

Please tell me where I said anything about piracy. I have a feeling I'll be waiting all day for an answer before you retract your misquote.

whats the point of MODDING proprietary, region locked hardware again? :rolleyes:

I'm not sure about your other question, although the PS3 is DVD region locked(as well as Blu-Ray region locked) for the sake of Anti-Piracy - the games however are NOT region locked.

[GFLPraxis]

How does HD DVD promis MORE exclusive later on when it has already lost most of(everything but Universal pretty much) it exclusive studios. If anything Blu-Ray has the most potential for winning the "content war" of the "optical format war."

Your argument was that Blu-ray had more exclusives currently, and I pointed out that was like the XBox 360 situation. My point was that if HD-DVD drops to $99 before Blu-ray, it will sell rapidly and thus gain the exclusives. Don't nitpick.

The PS3 is promising exclusives, but the XBox 360 is currently promising MORE exclusives if you add up the numbers. If the PS3 can start selling in large numbers, it'll get more exclusives than the 360. If HD-DVD can start selling in large numbers (due to lower price), it canget more exclusives.

It's hypocritical to insist on Blu-ray because it has more content when the XBox 360 has more content and you insist on the PS3.

[Steve Jobless]

wait im confused, can i buy a ps3 from japan with a game and use games bought here without worry? would a japan ps3 be able to play ntsc ps2 games? samething for xbox?

[Coded-Dude]

Thats rather absurd argument as well, how will it gain exclusives?
If anything it Blu-Ray will lose exclusives, but that does not inherently mean the will now be exclusive to HD DVD. IT means they will more than likely support both. You are nit-picking.
Again teh comparison is stupid, 360 has more games becasue its been out longer, not because it is getting more exclusive support.

@ Steve-Jobless, you can import PS3 games from anywhere and they will play on any PS3, I am not certain about PS2/PS1 games.

[steamboat26]

Yea.. look at that PS3 software release lineup, it sure is lacking alright ;) So lacking that most the games are on the top ten most wanted list in Japan, as opposed to the Wii which had 1 or 2 :)

Considering Nintendo's recent past in the console market I am more fearful on the Wii investment than my PS3.

Ed

Yeah, but almost every exclusive on the PS3 has a comparable game on the 360, except lair, which i don't really care for anyway.
Halo 3>Killzone 2
Forza 2=GT5

Anyways my point is right now the PS3 and Wii lineups suck. But the DS had a horrible lineup, but when it started to sell well, it got a lot more games, many of them great. The Wii has sold very well, which will cause developers to create games for it. The PS3 has only sold well since the price drop, and that is only temporary, so sales will probably be bad after the 60 GB is discontinued. Games like Brawl, Mario Galaxy, and other first party wii games are unparalleled on any system. Microsoft can easily copy Heavenly sword, or any other PS3 game just as Sony did with Killzone.

[GFLPraxis]

Thats rather absurd argument as well, how will it gain exclusives?
If anything it Blu-Ray will lose exclusives, but that does not inherently mean the will now be exclusive to HD DVD. IT means they will more than likely support both. You are nit-picking.

Does it matter, as long as Blu-ray loses them? Realistically, movie studios rarely pick exclusives. If both sell well, studios will produce for both.
Fine then, let's remove the word exclusive so nitpicking stops.

IGNORING EVERYTHING ELSE, ANSWER THIS:

PS3 currently lacks content. XBox 360 has more content. The situation will improve with sales.
HD-DVD currently lacks content. Blu-ray has more content. The situation will improve with sales.

So, how can you justify bashing HD-DVD for lacking content when you support the PS3?

[Steve Jobless]

@ Steve-Jobless, you can import PS3 games from anywhere and they will play on any PS3, I am not certain about PS2/PS1 games.


thanks but what about the system itself

[Coded-Dude]

Does it matter, as long as Blu-ray loses them? Realistically, movie studios rarely pick exclusives. If both sell well, studios will produce for both.
Fine then, let's remove the word exclusive so nitpicking stops.

IGNORING EVERYTHING ELSE, ANSWER THIS:

PS3 currently lacks content. XBox 360 has more content. The situation will improve with sales.
HD-DVD currently lacks content. Blu-ray has more content. The situation will improve with sales.

So, how can you justify bashing HD-DVD for lacking content when you support the PS3?



Because GAME SUPPORT AND MOVIE SUPPORT ARE DIFFERENT(i.e. not directly comparable).

Look at it this way.....Blu-Ray already had more exclusive support and HD DVD has lost exclusive support(something Blu-Ray has yet to do) - if HD DVD sales do increase, I agree that Blu-Ray will more than likely lose soem exclusivity. But we don't know what kind of exclusivity the deals are. Like Universal rumors, it could be a signed timed exclusive. If the BD exclusive supporting studios are indeed timed, and not based on personal preference, sales figures....then an increase in HD DVD players sales will NOT matter.

*goes to lunch*

[barr08]

Please tell me where I said anything about piracy. I have a feeling I'll be waiting all day for an answer before you retract your misquote.


Modchips walk the line of illegalness (is that even a word?) here in the states as far ask I know. I am pretty sure that is what he was reffering to.

[MacRumorUser]

To further expand.



Digital Distribution is already excepted in the public consciousness. Especially by the 'youth' for music as is.

When I said in 4-5 years, I meant we will start to see the beginning of proper digital distribution, espcially in regards to games & movies.

Yes there will be people who do not have internet access, but they will be catered for, but not by an optical solution.

Gaming Stores will adapt as much as Music stores are having too.

I envision the next batch of consoles to have removeable drives, that you can simply unplug - take to the gaming store which will have 'booths'. Plug in your drive, select the game you wish to purchase, and it is then transfered onto your HDD.

For those with fast Internet connections (and surely in 5 years time they WILL be faster), they will be able to download the game directly from the marketplace.

Apple TV has shown us the way. In 5 years time I envision a number of these devices. Heck even the 360 will have IPTV support before the year ends, and remember it can brodcast/stream HD-TV channels on that as it is.

Movie distribution will end up with the iMovie / iGame / iTunes style marketplace's.

Sony & Microsoft wanted thte current machines to be the beginnings of the device that replaces the GamesConsole, Movie Player & Video Recorder, even Apple too to an extent. They would not have all the features they currently have if they did not.


Furthermore......

This wont happen overnight in a few years time, and I never suggested it would... But.... It will BEGIN in earnest, and then slowly build up momentum and over the coming years begin to replace all other forms, so that yes in 10 years time it will be the prime distribution network.





I have seen the future.... and it's not orange ;)

[Dagless]

whats the point of MODDING proprietary, region locked hardware again? :rolleyes:

For my Xbox - dumping my own, legally purchased, games meant much faster loading times. And Super Mario Wars rocks. And I have just literally installed XBMC2 and it's friggin incredible. The 360 should have had this level of functionality.
For my Wii - to remove the region locking and homebrew (proper ones too, Quake Wii plz).
For my DS - Cave Story DS, Lemmings DS and hopefully that Doom DS. Pop3 email and MSN on the go.

Modchips walk the line of illegalness (is that even a word?) here in the states as far ask I know. I am pretty sure that is what he was reffering to.

Step away from your borders - there are other countries than the US with their own laws ;)
Modchips are perfectly legal where I am. To reduce people using modchips you sacrifice your warranty for them.
Just another thinking the world only spans from California to New York :rolleyes:

Still waiting for C-D to tell me why I'm a pirate.

[barr08]

Just another thinking the world only spans from California to New York :rolleyes:

Ummmm...no. Thats why I specified "here in the states", because I knew you weren't from the US. If everyone outside of the US is as pompous as yourself, however, then I am damn happy my world spans from CA to NY.

[MacRumorUser]

Still waiting for C-D to tell me why I'm a pirate.

Because he saw your passport photo
http://coolest-homemade-costumes.shippony.com/images/theme/pirates/pirate-costume-03.jpg


;):p:D


I modded both my Wii and original xbox and PS2's so that I could import NTSC games, and unlock 'component support' on the original xbox. Nothing to do with piracy for me - it just gave me a level playing field with other teritories :)

[Dagless]

Europeans = pirates for user upgrading their consoles to get Japan/US functionality.

barr08; My point was why would you bother telling me the legalities of modchips in the US? We're talking about Europeans using modchips...

oh! and MRU have you installed XBMC2 yet? I'm using the 360 skin and it's pretty fantastic. I'm putting my Apple TV purchase aside now :D Even has it's own YouTube feature, as low quality as them videos are.

Still waiting for C-D to tell me why I'm a pirate.

[barr08]

barr08; My point was why would you bother telling me the legalities of modchips in the US? We're talking about Europeans using modchips...

[/I]

Eh, I'm just in a bad mood and wanted to start an argument. I'm a naughty macrumors member today.

[Coded-Dude]

Last time I checked Nintendo doesn't make its hardware based on the rules/laws that only adhere to people between cali/ny. :rolleyes:
(in fact aren't they a Japanese company?):p
Why don't you call them, and ask them why they don't offer the mod chips themselves or why the don't condone it........?
I never said you were a PIRATE or that you PIRATED anything, only that you(against the recommendation of your beloved Nintendo) would encourage people to go out and do things that break EULA, Piracy laws, etc.

@SteveJobless - what do you mean?
The console itself is region free(IF YOU USE HDMI), JPN/US come with Composite multi-out - while EU/UK comes with SCART multi-out......so you may have issues with video depending on your region and the region you imported from. I would recommend getting a PS3 from your respective regions(that way movies and PS1/PS2 games will be a NON-Issue)and import any PS3 games that are not available in your region.

@GFLPraxis - "360 has more content" only means that it has more games.
To attempt to correlate that comparatively to the statement: Blu-Ray has more exclusive studio support; is rather ignorant.

Of course 360 has more games, it will always have more games, as it has been out longer.
Does that mean its "content" is more exclusive or that somehow it will continue to have more exclusive content?
No, it means that right now they have more games, but that multi-platform support is relatively equal.......can you say the same for BD/HD DVD?
(as you said yourself, or someone with similar ideals, for every game that comes out on PS3 there will be similar game on 360)
That in an of itself negates your entire "content" argument.

But what do I know, I'm just some dumb PS3 fanboy that only lives by the rules governed between Calli and NY. ;)
(I think not)

[EDIT]
The only store here "shunning" HD-DVD is Sony's UK puppy; HMV. Whereas my local Sainbury's and a few other shops only stock HD-DVD...
Woolworths retail chain in the UK have been trialling both Blu-ray & HD-DVD product ranges. Since the PlayStation 3 release Blu-ray movie sales have seen a steady increase, and they are now rolling out Blu-ray movies across all their medium to large stores. However Woolworths will be dropping all HD-DVD lines.

[Dagless]

so we are condoning piracy eh?


I never said you were a PIRATE or that you PIRATED anything, only that you(against the recommendation of your beloved Nintendo) would encourage people to go out and do things that break EULA

Encouraging? Really? Where?

Nintendo doesn't recommend buying a lot of things that are perfectly legal. If I ring up Nintendo and ask them a GameShark (or whatever they're called now) code are they going oblige? If my GBA screen breaks would they recommend that I fix it myself? What about if I need to replace my iPod battery or overclock my video card?

OMgosh Nintendo doesn't recommend or support it so it must be illegal!

Woolworths? Try again with a shop that has an impact ;) there isn't even a Woolworths in Manchester! It's a dying shop that overcharges for all (£39 for Pokemon Emerald?) and sells very nice pick and mixes. Good try though. I suppose you need to be in England to understand. Unless it's big in London?

[MacRumorUser]

Coded Dude.

Be wary of sales report for UK & Ireland stores. Why ??

Simple. When they report BluRay sales. They do not differentiate between Games & Movies on BluRay.

So a PS3 game sale is classed as BR sale.

So if they did take that into consideration and reported movie sales only - then we might see a more interesting picture.

As it stands - the results here are ambiguous to say the least.

[gauchogolfer]

Not to be too pedantic here, but can we direct this back in the direction of the topic, at least?

I think that as long as BD keeps the exclusivity its got now, and can start dropping the prices (I have seen Samsung players going for $450 on Amazon, less than PS3 as was claimed earlier) , then they will win this format war. The time to download movies on the currently-deployed US network is just prohibitively long. Maybe in a number of years, but as a person with a new 1080p TV at home, BD looks like the best option to take advantage of that lovely display right now.

[MacRumorUser]

BD looks like the best option to take advantage of that lovely display right now.

Yeah I'm not sure if someone insisted what I would recommend. I have both.

The reality is both are 'identical' in quality.

Generally most films are now available on both from what I see over on the stes I get my films from, so that makes the decison even harder.

I just bought, Flags Of Our Fathers and Letter From Hiroshima on Blu Ray (twice the price of the dvd versions) but prior to that I bought JarHead on HD-DVD.

I hav about 15 films on each format, both are just as good as each other for films. It's a really hard call.

I just wish there were more Hybrid players and then we wouldn't even need the discussion, just buy the film. :)

[Coded-Dude]

Nintendo doesn't recommend buying a lot of things that are perfectly legal. If I ring up Nintendo and ask them a GameShark (or whatever they're called now) code are they going oblige? If my GBA screen breaks would they recommend that I fix it myself? What about if I need to replace my iPod battery or overclock my video card?

OMgosh Nintendo doesn't recommend or support it so it must be illegal!

EULA...do you know what that means? It means you AGREED to it, and by disagreeing with it and encouraging others to as well, you are BREAKING A LEGAL AGREEMENT. :rolleyes:
(that must be more of my Yankee thought process eh?)

[sikkinixx]

now now children

[e²Studios]

EULA...do you know what that means? It means you AGREED to it, and by disagreeing with it and encouraging others to as well, you are BREAKING A LEGAL AGREEMENT. :rolleyes:
(that must be more of my Yankee thought process eh?)

Article 7: Prohibition of Duplication, Modification and Reverse-Engineering.

Only Nintendo has the right to host the Wii Network Services. Accordingly, you may not host, intercept, emulate or redirect the communication protocols used by Nintendo as part of the Wii Network Services, regardless of the method used to do so. Prohibited methods include, but are not limited to, protocol emulation, reverse engineering, modifying, adding components to, or using a utility program to host, the Wii Network Services, the Wii console, the Nintendo Intellectual Property, or any portion of any of these. You may not create works based on the Nintendo Intellectual Property, or adapt, distribute or make the Nintendo Intellectual Property transmittable to the public. .

Thats from the European EULA for the Wii.

Congrats Jimmi, you've just broke it by modifying your Wii. You may have also broke DMCA laws (or whatever they are called there) by breaking the region coding by installing the PCB on your Wii.

That EULA applies to the system and the network before you go running your mouth about how it mentions WiiConnect. ;)

Mod chips always have and always will be illegal, they break the EULA agreement you made when you agreed to use the console.

Ed

[Dagless]

Incredible, sikkinixx asks to "break it up" so the more mature among us do. :)

[bobber205]

*reads thread*

*laughs and laughs and laughs*

Thanks for perking up my Friday morning. :D

[takao]

on EULAs: in most countries in the EU they are worthless unless printed readable on the outside of a box, and with readable they mean actually printing the whole thing and not "you have to agree on the EULA inside"

EULAs packed in,digital on media you bought before: worthless
EULAs in front of installer of downloaded software: different matter

[Dagless]

Bingo.

[Coded-Dude]

Incredible, sikkinixx asks to "break it up" so the more mature among us do. :)
...bingo


Unless you want to further explain how it is "worthless."
Did the EU consumer advocacy group make such a rule/law, or is that jsut inferred as breaking EULA is as common as speeding(even if the limit is not "posted")

[gkarris]

How did a thread about how XB360 owners can now get an awesome deal on HD DVD turn into a discussion about EULA's?

Back on track - are there any XB360 OWNERS planning to jump in? Did anyone on the fence about XB360/PS3 make a decision?

[Nermal]

Please keep this thread on topic. This is a discussion about a new HD DVD deal. It it not a PS3/Wii/etc war.

Personally I'm happy with this news. I just bought this drive 2 weeks ago and I have it hooked up to my MBP. A cheaper drive means more users, which in turn means more movies :)

[Coded-Dude]

Well I was talking HD DVD / BD and "region locking" was brought up by someone else....thats how.
This is a good deal indeed, but I have a feeling HD DVD prices are only going to get better.

[Dagless]

Personally I'm happy with this news. I just bought this drive 2 weeks ago and I have it hooked up to my MBP. A cheaper drive means more users, which in turn means more movies :)

This is why I'll probably get the MS HD-DVD drive. No 360? Stick it on your Mac or PC :D and since the 360 doesn't run in my monitors native resolution then it's back to the good ol computer. Only when it's sub £79.99, if Europe see's a similar price drop/deal as the US.

I thought I brought up the HD-DVD vs. BlueRay region locking issue? About how I wish BlueRay doesn't take over for that very reason...

[steamboat26]

I wanna get this, but i'll have to get some more money first :D
The other thing is that since you apparently can't play Hd-DVD movies on a mac, I have to use this with my 360 until leopard comes out. Also, the 5 free movies are only from a choice of 15 that Toshiba says are "popular," who's to say they aren't poorly selling movies they are just trying to get rid of?
I haven't found a list of the free movies yet, and since it's after a mail-in-rebate (IIRC), that's a nice chunk of change up front. It really depends on the titles

[GFLPraxis]

Incredible, sikkinixx asks to "break it up" so the more mature among us do. :)

Jimmi, don't try to provoke him by calling him immature.

[GFLPraxis]

This is why I'll probably get the MS HD-DVD drive. No 360? Stick it on your Mac or PC :D and since the 360 doesn't run in my monitors native resolution then it's back to the good ol computer. Only when it's sub £79.99, if Europe see's a similar price drop/deal as the US.

I thought I brought up the HD-DVD vs. BlueRay region locking issue? About how I wish BlueRay doesn't take over for that very reason...

I'd get the HD-DVD drive, but sadly I have no HDTV, so I'm perfectly content to sit out the format war and not care who wins. :D

[gkarris]

This is why I'll probably get the MS HD-DVD drive. No 360? Stick it on your Mac or PC :D


Ooh, I forgot about that.

The HD DVD Drive for $179, sell the remote for $25, and you have "King Kong" and 5 other movies to hook up to your Mac or PC...

Sent shivers down my spine...

(that comes to about $34 for the drive!)

[steamboat26]

I was looking at the options for the 5 free movies, few of them appeal to me, especially when you have to choose one from each category...
80725

[SpankyPenzaanz]

The first next gen dvd (HD-DVD or Bluray or whatever) to hit the magical $99.99 is what I will get. Hopefullly by then I will have a hdtv.

[Dagless]

They're throwing in the remote for free in the UK (at least at Gamestation, at least my friend got his free!). It's a great deal and I hope someone gets this drive working on a hacked AppleTV. Would make a truly fantastic media centre.

[bluebomberman]

I was looking at the options for the 5 free movies, few of them appeal to me, especially when you have to choose one from each category...
80725

Man, that doesn't appeal to me at all. "Get $100+ worth of crap you don't want for free" hardly strikes me as a bargain.

More power to those that can get 5 flicks they actually want...

[steamboat26]

Man, that doesn't appeal to me at all. "Get $100+ worth of crap you don't want for free" hardly strikes me as a bargain.

More power to those that can get 5 flicks they actually want...

Totally agree, and the 5 free movies with the PS3 are chosen from 21 titles, few of which appeal to me as well.
Toshiba, Microsoft, and Sony should listen, give us the choice of ANY of your blu-ray or hd-dvd titles, that will help drive up sales :)

[Nermal]

I thought I brought up the HD-DVD vs. BlueRay region locking issue? About how I wish BlueRay doesn't take over for that very reason...

Oh yes, I fully agree. Region coding is one of the main reasons I'm not a Blu-ray supporter. I completely agree with you, but I don't want a flame war over it :)

[Dagless]

Oh yes, I fully agree. Region coding is one of the main reasons I'm not a Blu-ray supporter. I completely agree with you, but I don't want a flame war over it :)

See - if our HD films cost the same as what the US pays, then I might not mind. But the way we're constantly overcharged it's much cheaper to just import a film.
Our first DVD player was some X-Wave region free effort. I doubt my parents would ever consider a HD drive without similar features. I wouldn't.

[Nermal]

What's the selection like in the UK? Over here we have 70 Blu-rays vs hundreds in the US.

[takao]

the blueray / hddvd shelf grew here the last 3 months now it's around 1 meter or so for both combined (fairly split in terms of shelf space)

[gkarris]

Totally agree, and the 5 free movies with the PS3 are chosen from 21 titles, few of which appeal to me as well.
Toshiba, Microsoft, and Sony should listen, give us the choice of ANY of your blu-ray or hd-dvd titles, that will help drive up sales :)

I guess the point is to get rid of "overstock". I doubt they'll give away "300" or "Casino Royale".

[Dagless]

There's not much, and even then it's either naff new moveis (Ultraviolet?) or upscaled old ones. I don't know the exact number but in all shops they're tucked away on a single shelf (both formats). Completley rough guess - 40 BR, 30 HD? Not specialist shops just regular CD/DVD places (Virgin, HMV etc).

[cube]

Okay, HD-DVD is currently losing.

How can HD-DVD be losing when:

- It's winning by a huge margin in Europe.
- The EU is going after BluRay for anticompetitive practice
- HD-A2 the #1 DVD player in amazon.com (was even #1 in the whole of Elecronics there during the cash rebate), and the 1st BluRay player comes at #45.
- The HD DVD Promotional Group announced 300 new titles to be released in 2007

[GFLPraxis]

How can HD-DVD be losing when:

- It's winning by a huge margin in Europe.
- The EU is going after BluRay for anticompetitive practice
- HD-A2 the #1 DVD player in amazon.com (was even #1 in the whole of Elecronics there during the cash rebate), and the 1st BluRay player comes at #45.
- The HD DVD Promotional Group announced 300 new titles to be released in 2007

Simple.

The PS3 has outsold every HD-DVD player.

Despite the fact that the PS3 has sold pitifully for a games console, it has sold better than any Blu-ray or HD-DVD player. In the U.S., stores like Target and Blockbuster are refusing to stock Blu-ray.


Huh, I made a thread a long time ago, I can't remember whether it was on MR or not, asking what would happen if, perhaps, different formats won in different countries. What if HD-DVD dominates in the UK while Blu-ray dominates Japan because of the PS3?

[cube]

The PS3 has outsold every HD-DVD player.


And then we get into the debate of who really buy more movies, PS3 owners or dedicated HD DVD owners (including the Xbox add-on, as it only serves to watch movies). Pointless.

[e²Studios]

In the U.S., stores like Target and Blockbuster are refusing to stock Blu-ray.


I think you meant they are refusing to Stock HD DVD. Target just announced last week that they are pulling HD DVD completely before the holidays and going Blu-Ray exclusive. Blockbuster did the same, but that was a month or so ago.

Circuit City is planning to pull the plug on HD DVD, but they are thinking to do it in Q1 2008, so i am willing to bet that they are waiting to see holiday numbers.

Ed

[GFLPraxis]

I think you meant they are refusing to Stock HD DVD. Target just announced last week that they are pulling HD DVD completely before the holidays and going Blu-Ray exclusive. Blockbuster did the same, but that was a month or so ago.

Circuit City is planning to pull the plug on HD DVD, but they are thinking to do it in Q1 2008, so i am willing to bet that they are waiting to see holiday numbers.

Ed


Yeah, typo. Thanks.

I really do think it's too early to judge. But Blu-ray has the early lead.

I can easily imagine HD-DVD winning in Europe and Blu-ray in Japan/US though. I think HD-DVD could turn around if it hits $99 first. But Blu-ray is looking to be the victor in the US and Japan for now.

[cube]

Target just announced last week that they are pulling HD DVD completely before the holidays and going Blu-Ray exclusive. Blockbuster did the same, but that was a month or so ago.


Target said they would stop carrying HD DVD players, but that they would continue carrying the software.

[Dagless]

- It's winning by a huge margin in Europe.
- The EU is going after BluRay for anticompetitive practice
- HD-A2 the #1 DVD player in amazon.com (was even #1 in the whole of Elecronics there during the cash rebate), and the 1st BluRay player comes at #45.

These things I did not know :) Thanks! It'll make my HD video choice a lot easier

Since I don't know which continent I'll be living in next year it's a much better choice to go for HD-DVD. Since it's (apparently) big here and the region-free of it all. And a player for £130 - awesome. 1 or 2 more price drops and it's mine :)