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Nightrain
Jul 27, 2003, 09:20 AM
While browsing ebay i came upon this auction and sent the guy an email. It is very fishy. Below is our email exchange. the more i think about it the more i think its bs. I still dont believe him. Are there any others ways i can have him prove that it's legit?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2185012242&category=14912

Greetings,


Thanks for your email.
I am a private seller not a shop and I have (for the moment )the
privillege to buy these items for a low cost so that you have the
opportunity to purchase from me a great saving from the original price.


I have restricted the bidding because I have had some problems with
bidders who offer me a price that is much greater than the retail price.They
only want to conjure away the competition.You can check my auction record
for proof.


The price on eBay for this unit is $ 3,000.00 USD including shipping.

The products are brand new,completly working and come in an unopened box,
it comes up with all accessories and the units have three years manufacturers
warranty too.I will send you the item in the original package and an
invoice with all the papers(warranty,insurance ect ...) .The units use a
120Vpower supply and will work propperly in US & CANADA, because they use english keyboard layout and software.
One package contains:
-Apple Power Mac G5 Dual 2.0GHz G5 processors (with a 64-bit processor , which means it breaks the 4 gigabyte barrier and can use up to 8 gigabytes of main memory,2 USB 2.0 ports , SuperDrive , DVD-R/CD-RW , BlueTooth, Mac OS X v10.2 and Classic ,cables,....)
-Cinema HD Display 23" flat panel
-Apple DVI to ADC Adapter
-iPod 30GB
-Apple Pro Speakers
-Applecare warranty 3 years


The shipping costs and the insurance taxes of the package will be down to
me and you only pay for the money transfer comission when you wire the
funds,which is about 3% from the total amount sent.The unit is being shipped
from Italy and you wont have to pay for customs or any additional taxes
when it arrive in your country.


I looking forward to hearing from you soon
regards Christopher
CChrskrch@aol.com


PS:I am now interested to close the deal with a fair price for both sides and if you are interested
we can arrange a private deal to save time and money
for one unit with $2600 and for the pair(two items same kind) for $ 4600.


Christopher,

Thanks for the quick response. I see that your ebay feedback is excellent, but you have not sold any items on it, so I'm just being cautious here. I am definitely willing to spend $2600 for that package. Please confirm:

Dual g5 2ghz
23" cinema display
30 gb ipod
speakers
dvi to adc adapter
3 year APPLE warranty

$2600 US dollars + shipping costs + 3%(could you give me an estimate for shipping to Atlanta, GA?)

This is a great deal, but $2600 is still a lot of money. I ask you to email me your full name, address, scan or fax of your drivers license, and phone # where i could reach you if any problems arose. I have been scammed before, and i dont want to let it happen again, its nothing personal against you, but i cant afford to throw away $2600. I hope you understand my position. Also, when do you expect to be shipping these (I understand apple wont be shipping them until late august)? And can I ask why it will be coming from Italy?--just out of curiousity.


Thank you for your answer


The unit is being shipped from Italy and the costs will be down on me.It is brand new still in original package factory sealed.
I ship with all the accessories provided by the manufacturer . All the manuals and the original documentation are in English . You will receive your package in 2 working days. I send all my packages
having written on them "display unit, no comercial value" or as a gift
so you don't have to pay any additional taxes. (VAT included).

The warranty is fully covered by every APPLE service center from your country because its transferable and the day when the warranty beginn it will be the day when the package will arrive.The warranty is already registerd and you dont have to send the package back to make it valid.

I confirm that one package contains:
-Apple Power Mac G5 Dual 2.0GHz G5 processors (with a 64-bit processor , which means it breaks the 4 gigabyte barrier and can use up to 8 gigabytes of main memory,2 USB 2.0 ports , SuperDrive , DVD-R/CD-RW , BlueTooth, Mac OS X v10.2 and Classic ,cables,....)
-Cinema HD Display 23" flat panel
-Apple DVI to ADC Adapter
-iPod 30GB
-Apple Pro Speakers
-Applecare warranty 3 years

I only accept Wire Transfer (3% from the total amount, additional for Bank Fees)such as Western Union or Money Gram .
I DO NOT accept Personal Checks,PayPal,COD
Billpoint, Company Checks or any other type of payments.


Your item will be shipped out within 2 business days from receipt of payment.


As a shipping carrier i will use UPS express services because I have worked with them in the past and they were very fast and secure. As soon i will receive the payment confirmation from you by mail I will contact the carrier and I will send you back the tracking number of the package so you can track on net the shippment all the way to you.


The package will be insured at the delivery service .If somethig happens on the road , you will receive the insurance from the delivery service.


As soon as the package arrives, you will test the product and if it does not matches to your expectations, you will return it in max. 15 days sience the arrival date. In this case we will send you the full amount back and you will send us the product and we will pay the return shipping and insurance.


let me know if you agree and I will send you my personal datas in order to finalise the deal.


regards
Christopher
CChrskrch@aol.com


PS:Let me reiterate myself,my ebay rating is 1st class , I am l very sincere
seller here and I don't play games.The package will be release once the
payment is done. Cross my fingers and hope you can accept this condition and
work this out.


ok these terms are good. so if i wire the money tomorrow, i will receive it on tuesday or wednesday? and what does the shipping costs will be down on you mean?--you will pay for shipping? thanks


HI


Thank you for your promt answer

I know that you have many choices on eBay and I appreciate that you want to deal with me.

Please write your name and address. (If you do not write your shipping address , please note that it will delay shipping of your item.)

For closing the deal you have to go in person to an western union agent from your town and wire the money($ 2600 usd).
Please consider that the price for this product is
very low and convenable for the buyer.

I will take the major costs like shipping and insurance and you take only the money transfer comission at western union ,which is around 3% from the total amount sent.

If you are not familiar with this transfer company
just visit www.westernunion.com, here you will find
asubtitle called "agent location",press click on it and
he will show you the closest office from you can send
the payment .

Make wire transfer to:


Christopher Karch
Via Cappello 44
37121
Verona
Italy



Its getting late here so i will sleep on it and get back to you tomarrow. Think about this christopher--i have no way of knowing whether or not you made that information up. i am taking a HUGE risk here. It is the same as you saying that you will ship the package to me first, and then i would pay you. That would be a big risk for you. I will certainly pay WU if you send the products first. I really need you to prove the legitimacy of everything here, i need some pictures--of you, the products, etc. please give me something concrete that i can trust. I think you are being honest, but i must be OVERLY cautious. I am a college student in need of a computer. I have the money for this, but i cannot throw away that money. please help me out a little here. thanks



HI

I gave my international VAT number and all the info. As you know Italian people used to be very honest.I have one internet cafe in this town (Verona) called Patmos .

I also own one club-Restaurant-Bar called Pirgos.

If you want to have more details I also have a cafe and a ceramic factory ! !

You are also welcome to my town to have vacation it is beautiful over here.

I have 2 girls of 18 and 19 years
old both students at dentar medicine.My wife is
practicing general medicine at one of the biggest
hospitals here Verona.

i am an attorney; i sued to worked for the state prosecution team.now i am in private practice, real estate investments etc

I trust that this is satisfactory to you & upon successful completion hope
that we are able to continue to do good business (with more trust & less
hassle) in the future.

Thanks again for your patience.
Christopher

biscool
Jul 27, 2003, 09:50 AM
It's a classic scam. I hope you didnt wire him the money. For one, there is no acutal pics, just pr photos. He also only takes wire transfers and the deal is way too good. It's a scam. DO NOT WIRE THE MONEY!

biomac
Jul 27, 2003, 10:03 AM
I would HIGHLY recommend backing out of this deal. I 'almost' bought into one of these scams two months ago but when I tried to wire the money to the seller the Western Union agent informed me that there was an existing fraud investigation going on with the seller, after hearing that I immediately stopped the deal. About a week later I received an email from Western Union and eBay confirming that the seller did get charged with fraud.

There is one statement your seller said that jumped out at me: "You must go in person to a Western Union agent office to send the money". Trust me, this is NOT true at all! The reason the seller wants you to send the money in-person at the agent location is because the agent locations do not have real-time access to the Western Union fraud database. However, if you send the money via the Western Union website or via the Western Union telephone number, the transaction will get verified against the Western Union fraud database and if the seller has had fraud reported against him/her Western Union will not permit the transaction to continue. I repeat, the in-person agent offices DO NOT have access to the Western Union fraud database, therefore this fraud check will not happen if you transfer the money in-person at an agent location. The statement your seller made about sending the money at an agent location in-person makes me suspect that he/she may have committed fraud in the past.

I would estimate that if you send the money there is probably a 95% chance you will never see a computer and you will not get your money back. I have several reasons for saying this:

1) The seller is outside of the US and there will be no way for law enforcement to track them down.

2) The seller only allows Wire Transfer, NO seller can force you to do a wire transfer, they should allow other options.

3) The seller wants you to wire the money in-person at an agent location: this is a BIG red flag that says this could be a fraud (see above for explaination).

I hope this helps, these criminals are running rampant on eBay and I hope that eventually if we all work together we can put these losers out of business or (even better) in jail!

DakotaGuy
Jul 27, 2003, 10:11 AM
"I DO NOT accept Personal Checks,PayPal,COD
Billpoint, Company Checks or any other type of payments."

When they tell you this...it's a scam. Credit cards and checks are too easy to stop payment on. If they want the money wired...then they can run with it and you will never see it again.

edesignuk
Jul 27, 2003, 10:17 AM
That would be a big fat NO WAY!

IMO keep WELL away from it!

e-coli
Jul 27, 2003, 10:40 AM
It's a total scam. Wire transfers is the classic method of ebay scams.

I would report him.

Abstract
Jul 27, 2003, 10:52 AM
Why do people post the same scam here over and over again and ask us to analyse it? Its a scam. ;)

mangoman
Jul 27, 2003, 11:17 AM
Run, son. Run quickly, but just run. This dude's about to bite your ass -- hard.

mstecker
Jul 27, 2003, 11:35 AM
Yeah, it's a scam. Classic pattern where someone hijacks a high-feedback account. You can bet that the guy who wants you to wire the money wasn't the one who sold all of those maltese postcards.

It's too bad the G5's don't have a nice poetic name, otherwise this could be the case of the "Maltese Quicksilver" or the "Maltese El Capitan"

rainman::|:|
Jul 27, 2003, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by Abstract
Why do people post the same scam here over and over again and ask us to analyse it? Its a scam. ;)

exactly. even a child should be able to figure this out. if people lose money in these scams, it's their own fault, scammers make it sooo obvious...

pnw

mislabeledstar
Jul 27, 2003, 02:30 PM
How can he ship a G5 in two days when they haven't shipped from Apple yet?

scam

jbomber
Jul 27, 2003, 02:35 PM
Actually, try to get in touch with the fraud division of the FBI and see if they'd be interested in making an example of this guy. I'm getting really tired of ebay and their lax approach to dealing with the rampant fraud taking place thru their service.

jzieske
Jul 27, 2003, 04:54 PM
Also, why does he say he will charge 6.5% sales tax to MN residents if he is in Italy? That makes no sense at all.

Big Fat SCAM!

DreaminDirector
Jul 27, 2003, 05:33 PM
Dude, come on.... ebay is almost always too good to be true. Especially on big ticket items like computers.

Total scam.

gopher
Jul 27, 2003, 06:12 PM
Report him as abusing eBay's listing items:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact/report_listing.html

These are counterfeit, and fraudulant, and should be reported as such. He's also listing a $2600 17" Powerbook which is strangely underpriced. That should be reported as well as counterfeit. As only members can report other members, if you are a member report him so he doesn't get allowed to continue selling items. I for one will not join e-Bay until they do more to stop scammers. This is not an isolated instance: http://www.macintouch.com/fraudreports.html

iJon
Jul 27, 2003, 07:37 PM
some people will never get it. they are browsing ebay and see this awesome opportunity for a computer that isnt even out yet get a clue people. ebay is hardly ever a safe place.

iJon

RiseAgainst
Jul 27, 2003, 07:52 PM
This is 100% scam. If you send him money you willl never recieve your computer and he will have your money. This person's feedback is the result of an account takeover and hes just trying to steal your money.

There was a guy taking over accounts and trying to sell 17" PB's for $1,000. I thought it was a liitle (to say the least) suspisious and email the seller about it and notified eBay. About 2 weeks later i got an e-mail from eBay saying that the account that told them about was pirated and thanked me for bringing it to their attention.

All i have to tell you is that if the money seems to good to be true and the payment options are sketchy, trust your first reaction.

Rezet
Jul 27, 2003, 11:27 PM
For more on ebay scams regarding apple G5s see this thread.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33441


Even though you can report him in, I doubt that would get results. From ebay's point of view he hasn't broken any rules yet.
At this point it's impossible to 100% prove that he is scamming people, especially that his feedback is in a good standing.
But I'd notify ebay, still, to keep an eye on him.

gopher
Jul 28, 2003, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by Rezet
For more on ebay scams regarding apple G5s see this thread.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33441


Even though you can report him in, I doubt that would get results. From ebay's point of view he hasn't broken any rules yet.
At this point it's impossible to 100% prove that he is scamming people, especially that his feedback is in a good standing.
But I'd notify ebay, still, to keep an eye on him.

Selling a $3200 computer for $2600 is very suspicious. And selling it as new is illegal. He's doing that with a 17" Powerbook. If it is new and in good condition, he is taking a $600 loss. If it is in completely torn up condition and selling it as a new machine, then he is scamming. Either way, buyer beware!

Rezet
Jul 28, 2003, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by gopher
Selling a $3200 computer for $2600 is very suspicious. And selling it as new is illegal. He's doing that with a 17" Powerbook. If it is new and in good condition, he is taking a $600 loss. If it is in completely torn up condition and selling it as a new machine, then he is scamming. Either way, buyer beware!

Gopher, you always have to speculate don't you? You don't even know the guy and accusing him. Based on that he is selling something for less? 600+ people dealt with him and none of them left one bad comment on him.
I wouldn't deal with him, because i DO think it looks suspicious, but unlike you (for some reason) I amd not sure of anything.

panphage
Jul 28, 2003, 03:13 AM
Originally posted by Rezet
Gopher, you always have to speculate don't you? You don't even know the guy and accusing him. Based on that he is selling something for less? 600+ people dealt with him and none of them left one bad comment on him.
I wouldn't deal with him, because i DO think it looks suspicious, but unlike you (for some reason) I amd not sure of anything.
There really can't be any benefit of the doubt here. The western union scam is old and well documented. It might as well be a Nigerian asking you to help get some money out of the country. 600+ people did not deal with this guy. He hijacked an account to pull some wire fraud. In addition to the powerbook, he's offering a $3000 computer that hasn't even been made yet, a $2000 monitor, a $500 mp3 player, and a $100 video adaptor. All for $2000. Apple couldn't even manufacture all this equipment for that price.

bograt
Jul 28, 2003, 07:19 AM
That smells scam from a mile away!

On a sidenote I personally would never actually buy anything through the internet other than from reputable companies that also have actual shops. In the same way that I would not buy a VCR from a Mr. Derrick Trotter in the market. (joke only valid in UK)

Mac Kiwi
Jul 28, 2003, 07:21 AM
If by the slimmest chance its not a scam then the items are stolen,both ways you lose if you go ahead with it....