PDA

View Full Version : My letter to Apple. . .


shecky
Jul 27, 2003, 07:16 PM
Just sent this to Apple. I am sure many of us feel the same way.


To Whom it May Concern;

I am beginning my Sophomore year’s fall semester at XXXX this coming September 10th. The way XXXX works is that I am, as a Graphic Design major, required to purchase an Apple PowerBook as part of my curriculum. Now, while XXXX does indeed offer a very good package price of hardware and software, as an older student who has years of experience with Apple I am choosing to spend my money on a better package of my own choosing.

There is, however, a MAJOR problem with this plan: your continued delay on the release of new 15” PowerBooks. Now, I know that an update is imminent; I know (OK, strongly suspect) that the update will bring the new 15” into line with the current 12” and 17” PowerBooks. Things like Airport Extreme, DDR memory, built-in Bluetooth, Aluminum enclosure, and the like are things that I want and need in my new laptop. These are things that I can reasonably assume will be in the next revision of the new PowerBook. I understand it takes time to transition to a new model, I understand that there are supply chain issues such as Motorola to be dealt with. What I do not understand is your complete disregard for your customers (both current and potential) in NOT releasing a new revision after more than 10 months. 10 months!! I am sorry, but that is a flat out unacceptable timeline for a revision to your “bread & butter” PowerBook. You already know that this is a “core” product for you, and, rather than making a new release, or at the very least ANNOUNCING a new release to be shipped later, you instead leave us in the dark. I think this is very unfair.

Will I buy the current rev 15” TiBook if nothing new is announced soon? Of course I will. I will not choose to NOT buy a PowerBook just because it is not the next revision, however, I will buy it with some slight resentment and discouragement. What I truly, genuinely hope and pray Apple is NOT doing is waiting until after the Fall back-to-school rush of PowerBook purchases to clean out inventory and then announcing something in October. Please, PLEASE tell me that kind of sneakiness is not what is happening. I love your company and its products too much to believe that you would ever do that. I feel that on occasion, people can “drop the ball”, even if they have the best intentions. In this particular case, I fell that Apple has dropped the ball on keeping its customers in the loop.

What do I want? All I want is an announcement that the new PowerBooks, with whatever revisions, will be available on XYZ day. I do not need to have my new 15” PowerBook today, I just need to know I can buy it hopefully before, or at least very soon after school starts. I just want to be kept abreast of what is happening. After 10 months, I think we all deserve that little bit of respect.

Best regards,

hacurio1
Jul 27, 2003, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by shecky
Just sent this to Apple. I am sure many of us feel the same way.


To Whom it May Concern;

I am beginning my Sophomore year’s fall semester at XXXX this coming September 10th. The way XXXX works is that I am, as a Graphic Design major, required to purchase an Apple PowerBook as part of my curriculum. Now, while XXXX does indeed offer a very good package price of hardware and software, as an older student who has years of experience with Apple I am choosing to spend my money on a better package of my own choosing.

There is, however, a MAJOR problem with this plan: your continued delay on the release of new 15” PowerBooks. Now, I know that an update is imminent; I know (OK, strongly suspect) that the update will bring the new 15” into line with the current 12” and 17” PowerBooks. Things like Airport Extreme, DDR memory, built-in Bluetooth, Aluminum enclosure, and the like are things that I want and need in my new laptop. These are things that I can reasonably assume will be in the next revision of the new PowerBook. I understand it takes time to transition to a new model, I understand that there are supply chain issues such as Motorola to be dealt with. What I do not understand is your complete disregard for your customers (both current and potential) in NOT releasing a new revision after more than 10 months. 10 months!! I am sorry, but that is a flat out unacceptable timeline for a revision to your “bread & butter” PowerBook. You already know that this is a “core” product for you, and, rather than making a new release, or at the very least ANNOUNCING a new release to be shipped later, you instead leave us in the dark. I think this is very unfair.

Will I buy the current rev 15” TiBook if nothing new is announced soon? Of course I will. I will not choose to NOT buy a PowerBook just because it is not the next revision, however, I will buy it with some slight resentment and discouragement. What I truly, genuinely hope and pray Apple is NOT doing is waiting until after the Fall back-to-school rush of PowerBook purchases to clean out inventory and then announcing something in October. Please, PLEASE tell me that kind of sneakiness is not what is happening. I love your company and its products too much to believe that you would ever do that. I feel that on occasion, people can “drop the ball”, even if they have the best intentions. In this particular case, I fell that Apple has dropped the ball on keeping its customers in the loop.

What do I want? All I want is an announcement that the new PowerBooks, with whatever revisions, will be available on XYZ day. I do not need to have my new 15” PowerBook today, I just need to know I can buy it hopefully before, or at least very soon after school starts. I just want to be kept abreast of what is happening. After 10 months, I think we all deserve that little bit of respect.

Best regards,

Couldn't have said it better my self. I Agree!

Kwyjibo
Jul 27, 2003, 08:01 PM
isn't it 9 months?

nov6
dec6
jan6
feb6
mar6
apr6
may6
jun6
july6
aug6

August 6th, 2003 with be the ninth month since the tibooks wer revised. I understand that your one of the many people that wants/needs a new 15" but it appears as if apple is asimilating the powerbook update schedule which means that the 15" could be updated as late as 6-8 months since the 17" powerbooks started shipping...something to think about...open letter rarely serve any good except to vent.

shecky
Jul 27, 2003, 08:40 PM
this is not an open letter, this letter was sent directly to Apple. i posted it here after emailing to Apple because i think many people feel the same way and I wanted to show the community what, if any, action is or is not taken by Apple from this letter. I am not "venting", i am trying to make a clearly stated point directly to the company.

And you are right, i am off by 1 month. 9 months is still a long time for a rev, especially considering that the bookends of the line have new technologies that the 15 does not have. Again, i am not saying "give me a new powerbook tomorrow" i am saying "TELL me when a new powerbook is coming, that way I can make a decision regarding wether to wait for the new 15 and most likely pay more, or do it now with a current 15 and pay less."

The one place Apple has EVERY advantage over Wintel machines is in customer service & relationships with thier customer base (or at least they should if they do not). They have the power to keep thier customer base in the loop, and as such, i think they should.

Schiffi
Jul 27, 2003, 08:41 PM
You got into XXXX! Man, are you lucky. I applied there but they said I didn't have enough charisma. Oh well, have fun at XXXX.

shecky
Jul 27, 2003, 08:43 PM
well, YYYY did not give me a good enough scholarship and QQQQ was all PC :mad:

Schiffi
Jul 27, 2003, 08:55 PM
Things like Airport Extreme, DDR memory, built-in Bluetooth, Aluminum enclosure, and the like are things that I want and need in my new laptop.

You need those? The only thing that'd excite my update desires are DDR, but most ppl can live without AE, BT, and Al. I see the next revision getting Al (unless they have a just amount of left over titanium...) just to minimize Apple's metal sources. Not to take up Apple's side and say that those wouldn't be great, they would be. However, I knew that I didn't need those and purchased the current Ti instead (which I have had for about 4 months). Better to have it for 4 months than be without one. Just wondering if you're prioritizing enough. I am glad you sent it though, maybe it'll make Apple wake up (though you never know what is happening behind the scenes).

P.S. Should've mentioned the AP range in the current Ti's as well.

mgargan1
Jul 27, 2003, 09:03 PM
what pricerange are you looking for when you buy a new computer?

shecky
Jul 27, 2003, 09:09 PM
Aluminum enclosure and bluetooth fall into the "want" category. AE and DDR fall into the "need" category. DDR for the obvious reasons, and AE for the filesharing bandwidth increase. (i do a lot of filesharing at home and will be doing a lot at school - rumor has it "G" based wireless there next year.) I also have found that using G based wireless cards on a B network is still a bit faster than using a B card - thats just my own experience.

mgargan1, i am prepared to spend as much as $2600 for a new AlBook. if the new rev is not what i think it will be, i will save my $ and spend less on the current Ti. (i am referring to academic pricing)

Abstract
Jul 27, 2003, 09:20 PM
You should mail the letter through regular mail (remember, regular mail? ;)) AND via email. I doubt that the widely known email address of Steve Jobs is going to work. I've seen people give it out to others but I wouldnt actually expect him to read it. ;)

Send him the hard copy.

mgargan1
Jul 27, 2003, 09:31 PM
well, if you can save up a couple more hundred dollars, you could get the 17". But i understand that there are financial reasons why people can only spend a certain amount of money. And i'm sure you thought about getting the 17", but just think about it more... it's really not that bad to carry around. I have one, and it looks like it'll be a pain, but it's really not. And it's not that heavy compared to a 17" PC. (10lbs) And i'm sure you're school gives you a huge discount on Office vX as well. I know mine did...

Kwyjibo
Jul 27, 2003, 09:34 PM
Originally posted by Abstract
You should mail the letter through regular mail (remember, regular mail? ;)) AND via email. I doubt that the widely known email address of Steve Jobs is going to work. I've seen people give it out to others but I wouldnt actually expect him to read it. ;)

Send him the hard copy.

I would have thought that too but one night when I was really pissed after my iBook broke again I wrote an emotional email and a few days later an Apple Executive Liason contacted me to make sure applecare was sending out the box and continued to contact me and expedited the repair process I was quite happy to know my small voice was heard simpyl from emailing sjobs

shecky
Jul 27, 2003, 09:43 PM
i did not send it to sjobs@, i sent it via an offical form on the Apple website under "contact us"

solvs
Jul 27, 2003, 10:48 PM
Although I do not disagree (actually, I completely agree), I'm afraid there is nothing any of us can do about it. Even Apple. I would assume that they thought they'd have the new CPUs by now. Don't know why they counted on Moto, who of course blew it with their delays. Now they know the new 'Books will not be released until Sept. They can't announce them, because then no one would buy the current ones, which they actually are.

Not everyone reads rumor sites, but I do suspect most people who follow Apple realize the "new" 'Books are quite old (in computer terms).

cb911
Jul 27, 2003, 10:56 PM
shecky, i sure feel that way, but i think that Apple already knows how people feel about the TiBooks. and i don't think they'd do anything sneaky like wait for the back to school rush to clear out TiBook inventory. i'm sure that Apple wants to get the new PowerBooks out as soon as possible in time for the back to school buying spree of students. but you never know...

Daveman Deluxe
Jul 27, 2003, 11:04 PM
From the looks of it, delays at Motorola with the 7457 are forcing Apple to push the PB line to wait until mid-September for a revision.

If I were you, I'd stick it out. From the sound of it, you already have a Mac so you shouldn't worry a whole lot.

Snowy_River
Jul 28, 2003, 12:07 AM
I think that you may be taking a rather short sited view of this. Apple has a lot more of a balancing act to perform than you might think. The 15"PB is the only Pro level machine that currently supports OS 9 booting. That may not matter much to you, but there are those out there that that does matter for.

Apple isn't going to continue to support it much longer, but they cannot (by any reasonable marketing strategy) offer information as to when their new products are going to be available.

I'd encourage you to trust Apple. It's in their interest to announce the new PBs before the school rush, if they can reasonably ship them in time for school. If, however, they can't ship them until October, they likely won't announce them until September at the earliest.

shecky
Jul 28, 2003, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by Snowy_River
Apple isn't going to continue to support it much longer, but they cannot (by any reasonable marketing strategy) offer information as to when their new products are going to be available.

can you clarify this statement please? because it sounds like what you are saying is that Apple would be foolish to announce new product now and ship it later when there is still current product in the channel.

to which i reply: G5

i think the OS 9 thing, while important to some, is something that Apple is certainly been saying is going away. I find it highly unlikely that Apple is not revising the tibook because it can still boot into OS9. Steve & the boys have said pretty succinctly on a number of occassions over the past 2 years that OS X is the only real option going forward.

Rezet
Jul 28, 2003, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by shecky
To Whom it May Concern;

I am beginning my Sophomore year’s fall semester at XXXX this coming September 10th. The way XXXX works is that I am, as a Graphic Design major, required to purchase an Apple PowerBook as part of my curriculum. Now, while XXXX does indeed offer a very good package price of hardware and software, as an older student who has years of experience with Apple I am choosing to spend my money on a better package of my own choosing.

[/B]


XXXX = Community College.

Rezet
Jul 28, 2003, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by shecky
Just sent this to Apple. I am sure many of us feel the same way.


To Whom it May Concern;

I am beginning my Sophomore year’s fall semester at XXXX this coming September 10th. The way XXXX works is that I am, as a Graphic Design major, required to purchase an Apple PowerBook as part of my curriculum. Now, while XXXX does indeed offer a very good package price of hardware and software, as an older student who has years of experience with Apple I am choosing to spend my money on a better package of my own choosing.

There is, however, a MAJOR problem with this plan: your continued delay on the release of new 15” PowerBooks. Now, I know that an update is imminent; I know (OK, strongly suspect) that the update will bring the new 15” into line with the current 12” and 17” PowerBooks. Things like Airport Extreme, DDR memory, built-in Bluetooth, Aluminum enclosure, and the like are things that I want and need in my new laptop. These are things that I can reasonably assume will be in the next revision of the new PowerBook. I understand it takes time to transition to a new model, I understand that there are supply chain issues such as Motorola to be dealt with. What I do not understand is your complete disregard for your customers (both current and potential) in NOT releasing a new revision after more than 10 months. 10 months!! I am sorry, but that is a flat out unacceptable timeline for a revision to your “bread & butter” PowerBook. You already know that this is a “core” product for you, and, rather than making a new release, or at the very least ANNOUNCING a new release to be shipped later, you instead leave us in the dark. I think this is very unfair.

Will I buy the current rev 15” TiBook if nothing new is announced soon? Of course I will. I will not choose to NOT buy a PowerBook just because it is not the next revision, however, I will buy it with some slight resentment and discouragement. What I truly, genuinely hope and pray Apple is NOT doing is waiting until after the Fall back-to-school rush of PowerBook purchases to clean out inventory and then announcing something in October. Please, PLEASE tell me that kind of sneakiness is not what is happening. I love your company and its products too much to believe that you would ever do that. I feel that on occasion, people can “drop the ball”, even if they have the best intentions. In this particular case, I fell that Apple has dropped the ball on keeping its customers in the loop.

What do I want? All I want is an announcement that the new PowerBooks, with whatever revisions, will be available on XYZ day. I do not need to have my new 15” PowerBook today, I just need to know I can buy it hopefully before, or at least very soon after school starts. I just want to be kept abreast of what is happening. After 10 months, I think we all deserve that little bit of respect.

Best regards,


It may be a good letter but... It is written the way that you expect high management of apple will read it. But they won't.
This letter will get to some intern who is working there for 6 bucks an hour or a secretary who could really care less for anything and only has generic answers for common questions.

I don't expect for them to send anything back to you (or honestly even read it fully to that matter). But even if they do send you back a letter, it will look something like this:

"Dear Mr. XXXX,
Apple is working very hard on improving hardware and software for our customers. Unfortunatelly, we currently don't have any information regarding update of 15" powerbooks. Please, check out our website frequently, as any information available will be posted there as soon as we get it.

Sincerely,

XXXX.





-Cheers!

shecky
Jul 28, 2003, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by Rezet
XXXX = Community College.

whats funny is how you could not possibly be more wrong :)

hell, who knows who reads these letters, if anyone even DOES read these letters. But, it was worth 10 minutes. ya never know.

Kwyjibo
Jul 28, 2003, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by shecky
to which i reply: G5

Almost everyone whos on the new powerbook bandwagon except for you would hate an announcement and delay..... Nearly everyone who orders a machine and has to deal with a month or two delay whines until they get their machine (17" powerbook)...the essence of america is I want it now.....Also the G5 is a whole new product and were not sure if tyhe powerbooks will even be a case redesign.

iPC
Jul 28, 2003, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by shecky
this is not an open letter, this letter was sent directly to Apple. i posted it here after emailing to Apple because i think many people feel the same way and I wanted to show the community what, if any, action is or is not taken by Apple from this letter. I am not "venting", i am trying to make a clearly stated point directly to the company.

And you are right, i am off by 1 month. 9 months is still a long time for a rev, especially considering that the bookends of the line have new technologies that the 15 does not have. Again, i am not saying "give me a new powerbook tomorrow" i am saying "TELL me when a new powerbook is coming, that way I can make a decision regarding wether to wait for the new 15 and most likely pay more, or do it now with a current 15 and pay less."

The one place Apple has EVERY advantage over Wintel machines is in customer service & relationships with thier customer base (or at least they should if they do not). They have the power to keep thier customer base in the loop, and as such, i think they should.
Apple has shown in the last year or so, that they are losing their advantage wrt customer service related issues. I mean come on now, you can't return a BTO item? Give me a break. Apple buys in such small quntities, it is hard for the to give advance notice as to what will be released, when.

agreenster
Jul 28, 2003, 11:04 AM
Sorry to say, but they wont give a flying ****** about your letter.

They have their reasons for not announcing or releasing a new 15 PB. Its about economics and their own timetable, not some whiny kid going to junior college without a bleeding-edge aluminum 15 inch powerbook. Get over it already.





BTW:I have the 1gHz 15" TiBook and its freakin' awesome. I use it for high end 3D animation, and it never misses a beat.

Schiffi
Jul 28, 2003, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by agreenster
BTW:I have the 1gHz 15" TiBook and its freakin' awesome. I use it for high end 3D animation, and it never misses a beat.

As do I, too freakin' awesome

e-coli
Jul 28, 2003, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by shecky
AE and DDR fall into the "need" category. DDR for the obvious reasons

Okay, need we go over this YET AGAIN, people.

The G4, in ANY of it's many iterations are completely incapable of taking advantage of DDR memory. So you don't need it. You simply want it. It doesn't benefit you in any way, shape, or form on the G4 machines.

MacFan25
Jul 28, 2003, 12:35 PM
I think that Apple realizes that the 15" Powerbook needs to be updated. I don't know why they haven't done it yet. Maybe because of the heat issue.?.

But, when new Powerbooks do come out, I think that we will be in for a treat. :)

jzieske
Jul 28, 2003, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by MacFan25
But, when new Powerbooks do come out, I think that we will be in for a treat. :)

After waiting this long we better be in for something very cool. Above and beyond 12/17 features. As for what it might be I have no idea.

jxyama
Jul 28, 2003, 01:15 PM
iPC -
unlike some PC vendors, Apple includes most things as "standard." BTO options are fairly specific and targeted. (most popular being Superdrive over Combo Drive?) so there's some (not all) defense as to why Apple doesn't allow BTO returns.

waiting continues... though i find it rather pointless for one individual to complain to Apple. i applaude the initiative but you have absolutely no leverage to force them to take action. if you got together 1,000 people who are deciding between 15" PB or a dell equivalent, you may have a shot.

I think Apple wants comments regarding their products/problems/new ideas. i don't want to sound completely dismissive, but i doubt they are very interested in listening to pleas for new hardware due to personal circumstances. Apple already knows that months leading to Sept. is a big back-to-school sale time...

i personally subscribe to the theory that Apple's actually having trouble with updating 15" and that the delay is not just due to Apple's "stupidness."

Frohickey
Jul 28, 2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by shecky
Just sent this to Apple. I am sure many of us feel the same way.


What makes you think the people at Apple read letters like this without first filing it in the round file... err... /dev/null.

:)

Megaquad
Jul 28, 2003, 02:49 PM
If they could bring laptops faster, they would, so there is no point in complaining. It is for our own good! :) (G5G5G5)

jayscheuerle
Jul 28, 2003, 03:16 PM
I didn't even know they had porn schools...

Should have changed my major... - j

shecky
Jul 28, 2003, 03:34 PM
from agreenster

" They have their reasons for not announcing or releasing a new 15 PB. Its about economics and their own timetable, not some whiny kid going to junior college without a bleeding-edge aluminum 15 inch powerbook. Get over it already."

1st of all, im not some whiny kid, im some whiny adult. second of all, you are completely clueless about me. I go to what many consider to be the best art & design school in the country (so they say), on a scholarship, no less. Since where i go to school does not need to be public knowledge, nor is it relevant in terms of the core issue of the letter, i threw in the X's. So, if you want to make an attempt to insult me, at least do it based on soemthing you have accurate info on, my stupid knickname, my poor scentence structure, etc... Don't categorize me based on what you think you know, which, you quite evidently do not. I'm dropping $2500 on hardware, i will not "get over it" i will damn well get the most i can for my money.

from e-coli:

"The G4, in ANY of it's many iterations are completely incapable of taking advantage of DDR memory. So you don't need it. You simply want it. It doesn't benefit you in any way, shape, or form on the G4 machines."

Now, someone PLEASE explain to me how DDR RAM on a G4 is absoloutly not faster than PC133. If you are right, you are right, but i would like an explination in layman's terms if you dont mind. If this is accurate, then i will be the 1st to admit that sways my opinion a good bit. I also want the advantage of a faster system bus as well, i thought that had something to do with the magic of DDR?

And as for the rest of the generally negative type comments, so what if they don't read the letter? it took me 10 minutes, it was worth it. That kind of "don't bother" attitute is a bad one, in my opinion. Maybe i'll get a response, maybe i will not. Maybe Steve will call me and ask me to do lunch so he can get my thought on how to run Apple better, maybe he won't. At least i am not mindlessly bitching and moaning, i am bitching and moaning with some assertive direction.

jzieske
Jul 28, 2003, 03:43 PM
Unlike many people here I think that even large companies like Apple need to hear from customers. Will one single letter make a difference porbabally not. However, Apple needs to know what customers want/expect from them. If Apple hears from hundreds/thousands of people it WILL make a difference in how they do business in the future. I am not saying that it will make them do business like we may want them too, but if nobody tells them what they think they will continue as they are.

jxyama
Jul 28, 2003, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by shecky
from agreenster
And as for the rest of the generally negative type comments, so what if they don't read the letter? it took me 10 minutes, it was worth it. That kind of "don't bother" attitute is a bad one, in my opinion. Maybe i'll get a response, maybe i will not. Maybe Steve will call me and ask me to do lunch so he can get my thought on how to run Apple better, maybe he won't. At least i am not mindlessly bitching and moaning, i am bitching and moaning with some assertive direction.

first of all, i can tell you steve will not be inviting you for lunch anytime soon nor will he be asking you how to run apple. (i assume this was meant as a joke.) :D

i think the point is, most of us have heard of a post like this before. it is more or less the same mindless moaning because to me, at least, the points in your letter offered nothing new. i've seen many threads on why apple needs to release the updated 15" and the reasons you sited were nothing new. the only difference is that you sent a copy to apple. good for you, but i can't help be dismissive and pessimistic about this because i've seen them before.

it is our choice to wait. apple never told us to wait. they don't owe an announcement. it is good to give feedbacks, yes, but i feel they should be more constructive than "you are due for an update and i need a new machine before i go to school."

[edit] i wanted to clarify one thing here... as you said, you are completely free to write apple and state your case. i applaude your initiative, as i said before. however, what i wouldn't like is for you to come back later complaining about their lack of responsiveness, etc., and state how apple "sucks." chances are, apple will announce and offer 15" update on their terms... they don't owe an explanation and at the same time, you don't owe them a sympathy when their "bad" and "sucky" update cycles and business plan do them in as a company. [\edit]

agreenster
Jul 28, 2003, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by shecky
from agreenster

" They have their reasons for not announcing or releasing a new 15 PB. Its about economics and their own timetable, not some whiny kid going to junior college without a bleeding-edge aluminum 15 inch powerbook. Get over it already."

1st of all, im not some whiny kid, im some whiny adult. second of all, you are completely clueless about me. I go to what many consider to be the best art & design school in the country (so they say), on a scholarship, no less. Since where i go to school does not need to be public knowledge, nor is it relevant in terms of the core issue of the letter, i threw in the X's. So, if you want to make an attempt to insult me, at least do it based on soemthing you have accurate info on, my stupid knickname, my poor scentence structure, etc... Don't categorize me based on what you think you know, which, you quite evidently do not. I'm dropping $2500 on hardware, i will not "get over it" i will damn well get the most i can for my money.


Yeah. You're right. I certainly have no reason to make fun of you anymore.

Thirteenva
Jul 28, 2003, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by jxyama
first of all, i can tell you steve will not be inviting you for lunch anytime soon nor will he be asking you how to run apple. (i assume this was meant as a joke.) :D

i think the point is, most of us have heard of a post like this before. it is more or less the same mindless moaning because to me, at least, the points in your letter offered nothing new. i've seen many threads on why apple needs to release the updated 15" and the reasons you sited were nothing new. the only difference is that you sent a copy to apple. good for you, but i can't help be dismissive and pessimistic about this because i've seen them before.

it is our choice to wait. apple never told us to wait. they don't owe an announcement. it is good to give feedbacks, yes, but i feel they should be more constructive than "you are due for an update and i need a new machine before i go to school."

[edit] i wanted to clarify one thing here... as you said, you are completely free to write apple and state your case. i applaude your initiative, as i said before. however, what i wouldn't like is for you to come back later complaining about their lack of responsiveness, etc., and state how apple "sucks." chances are, apple will announce and offer 15" update on their terms... they don't owe an explanation and at the same time, you don't owe them a sympathy when their "bad" and "sucky" update cycles and business plan do them in as a company. [\edit]


I agree with this post 100%.

Shecky the letter is written as if apple owes you something. Which of course they do not.

You say in a later post that you want the most for you $2500 and you can have it, in the form of a 15" tibook.......

I wonder if these same people write to car companies and tell them that they need to release the next years models months sooner because they need a car now and since the update is "innevitable" they should release it now. And then go and accuse them of waiting till current inventory is diminished.....

primalman
Jul 28, 2003, 04:16 PM
OK, I have one for ya, I went to one of the best design schools in the country, got a better education in graphic design than most, have won more awards in 10 years than most designers will win in 50, been teaching it, and you know what, your choice of computer has about ZERO to do with how well you do design.

Last year, and for the last 5 years, I did super on a 200mhz 604e, making many tens of thousands of dollars doing GOOD WORK. So, whining about a slightly updated PB will get you nowhere.

Previous posters are right, we have all heard this before, to the limit. Everyone is tired of it. Apple is not trying to jack us around, they are making business decisions. That is all.

I do think that the OS 9 issue is a BIG part of it, even though they are not gonna say that, for obvious reasons.

So, when they update the line, it will be great, but it is not the end-all of what a person needs to be good at what they do. If you can't wait, and might fell ripped off by the TiBook, buy the 12", it will be plenty nice, plus you get your annemities you want.

BTW, I bought a 15" 1ghz and could not be happier. And I am going back to school for my MFA, slightly more advanced, but am I whining about my 'not-updated-yet-woe-is-me" Powerbook G4. No way.

Thirteenva
Jul 28, 2003, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by primalman
OK, I have one for ya, I went to one of the best design schools in the country, got a better education in graphic design than most, have won more awards in 10 years than most designers will win in 50, been teaching it, and you know what, your choice of computer has about ZERO to do with how well you do design.

Last year, and for the last 5 years, I did super on a 200mhz 604e, making many tens of thousands of dollars doing GOOD WORK. So, whining about a slightly updated PB will get you nowhere.

Previous posters are right, we have all heard this before, to the limit. Everyone is tired of it. Apple is not trying to jack us around, they are making business decisions. That is all.

I do think that the OS 9 issue is a BIG part of it, even though they are not gonna say that, for obvious reasons.

So, when they update the line, it will be great, but it is not the end-all of what a person needs to be good at what they do. If you can't wait, and might fell ripped off by the TiBook, buy the 12", it will be plenty nice, plus you get your annemities you want.

BTW, I bought a 15" 1ghz and could not be happier. And I am going back to school for my MFA, slightly more advanced, but am I whining about my 'not-updated-yet-woe-is-me" Powerbook G4. No way.

Amen! its not the wand its the wizard...

I'm designing on my 500mhz tibook and love it.

agreenster
Jul 28, 2003, 04:23 PM
I think the biggest point everyone here is trying to make (in a not-so-nice way, myself included) is that Apple ALREADY knows they need and/or are going to update the 15inch Powerbook...

...But your letter isnt going to change their timetable, or their plans.

Now, if you wrote a letter to them expressing something that Apple didnt already have plans for, or were complaining about a bug you discovered, then maybe they would listen. But as it is, they already know they need to update the PB, and probably have been working a long time on it, and therefore dont give a crap about your letter.

The reason people here are giving you such a hard time is because we all already know all of this, and are tired of hearing people whine about it.

[edit: just read primalman's post after posting and couldnt agree more]

shecky
Jul 28, 2003, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by primalman
OK, I have one for ya, I went to one of the best design schools in the country, got a better education in graphic design than most, have won more awards in 10 years than most designers will win in 50, been teaching it, and you know what, your choice of computer has about ZERO to do with how well you do design.

Last year, and for the last 5 years, I did super on a 200mhz 604e, making many tens of thousands of dollars doing GOOD WORK. So, whining about a slightly updated PB will get you nowhere.

Previous posters are right, we have all heard this before, to the limit. Everyone is tired of it. Apple is not trying to jack us around, they are making business decisions. That is all.

I do think that the OS 9 issue is a BIG part of it, even though they are not gonna say that, for obvious reasons.

So, when they update the line, it will be great, but it is not the end-all of what a person needs to be good at what they do. If you can't wait, and might fell ripped off by the TiBook, buy the 12", it will be plenty nice, plus you get your annemities you want.

BTW, I bought a 15" 1ghz and could not be happier. And I am going back to school for my MFA, slightly more advanced, but am I whining about my 'not-updated-yet-woe-is-me" Powerbook G4. No way.

the hardware has nothing to do with the quality of work, agreed.

its MY goddamn money and i want to spend it wisely. So if you prefer not to hear me "whine" the ignore the damn thread. I am not attacking anyone, including Apple, so why dont you all do me a personal favor and stop attacking me. If you all in your infinite wisdon have heard it all before then you should have known to ignore this post from about the 4th scentence.

I have certainly learned to keep my big mouth shut around here, thanks for the not so subtle lesson.

jxyama
Jul 28, 2003, 04:36 PM
schecky:

this is a freely accessible forum. if you post here, you'll get people to respond to you. (conversely, you shouldn't post if you don't want any responses!) though biased and completely opinionated, replies to the thread are some indicator of the "public" opinion based on the MR membership.

just as you took time to post your thoughts, there are people who will take their time to post their thoughts. it's really not fair for you to ask those only in favor of your opinion to post replies. just as you felt compelled to share your original letter with others here, many of us feel compelled to share our thoughts.

replies are not "personal." they are not personal "attacks." it's differing opinions. don't take them too personally. there are a lot of diverse and interesting people here - you should take advantage of them and contribute.

agreenster
Jul 28, 2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by shecky
I have certainly learned to keep my big mouth shut around here, thanks for the not so subtle lesson.

Woo hoo!! Victory! :D

Seriously though, dont take it so personally man. Its just a discussion forum.

Snowy_River
Jul 28, 2003, 08:38 PM
Shecky,

I think that what most people are responding to (myself included) is the tone of your letter. There is a tone of indignation and entitlement. I think that this is the failing of most letters of this kind. It promotes the response of "here's one more customer whining about things that he doesn't understand."

If you want to write an honest 'concerned customer' letter to Apple, and get a good response, then you have to avoid this kind of an attitude. Also, I'd strongly recommend not sending such a letter via the web. Despite the ever growing popularity of e-commerce and such, a real, hard-copy letter with a real signature on it still carries more weight with most, if not all, companies.

In any event, I hope that you get a product that you are satisfied with in the end. With a little luck, it might be an updated 15"G4 PowerBook....

Originally posted by shecky
Now, someone PLEASE explain to me how DDR RAM on a G4 is absoloutly not faster than PC133. If you are right, you are right, but i would like an explination in layman's terms if you dont mind. If this is accurate, then i will be the 1st to admit that sways my opinion a good bit. I also want the advantage of a faster system bus as well, i thought that had something to do with the magic of DDR?


Alright, here's an attempt...

DDR RAM nominally doubles the data transfer rate from the RAM to the system Bus, where it's distributed throughout the system. The primary destination for most data coming from RAM, however, is the CPU. The G4 CPU does not support double data rate (DDR) transfers, so the data flowing to the CPU can only maintain a single data rate speed.

Now, does this mean that having DDR RAM in the G4 based computers is worthless? Actually, no. But it does mean that you don't get anywhere near the performance boost that you would see from a DDR enabled processor (G5). The G4 systems (iMac, eMac, PowerBook, Power Mac), based on bench mark testing, gain about a 25% performance boost on highly memory intensive tasks, which, as I indicated earlier, is a far cry from the nearly 2x boost you'd expect from a better processor.

So, given what you're doing, I can understand why you'd want DDR RAM high on your list of 'wants'.

However, here's a thought for you, if your machine's performance is worth that much to you, why don't you consider getting a new G5 and one of the current 12"PowerBooks. You might spend a little more, but you'd get an incredible set-up...

Originally posted by primalman
If you can't wait, and might fell ripped off by the TiBook, buy the 12"...

This is, in fact, what I've ended up doing, and I haven't regretted it one bit. I love my little 12". The only thing that I really want is to get a nice flat screen display to use as a second monitor while I'm at my desk...