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View Full Version : Apple needs to face reality with PB's


AHDuke99
Jul 28, 2003, 12:29 AM
Since Moto has already screwed up again, I think the best thing for Apple to do is screw Moto, and get IBM cranking on a 970 that can run in the PB's. If Apple can't release the PBs until September, AFTER all the students have gone back, who's gonna buy them, when the G5's are just around the corner in Jan/Feb 2004, hell if it goes to Paris, I will bite the bullet and use my non-DVI Tibook until the G5's come. I'm waited 6 months already, I might as well wait another 3.5 months til January to get the "World's First 64-bit Laptop". Either way, Apple will lose this time. So my advise to them on the PB's now, SCREW MOTOROLA, LET"S GET IBM GOING ON THE G5's FOR THE PB's, then just bring those to Paris in two months, not just speed bumps for the current line. Moto needs to go, I don't see why Joz said "Our relationship with Moto is important". Sheez. The faster Apple rids themself from Moto the better.

Rezet
Jul 28, 2003, 12:35 AM
Well, what exactly do you want us to say?
We all want new powerbooks. But seem that 64bit ones aren't coming any time soon.

Marble
Jul 28, 2003, 12:38 AM
It doesn't make any sense to piss anyone off on purpose. Motorola is a big company that is not following through for Apple *now*, but may very well become a leading competitor again in the next several years, or the next decade, or whatever. Giving the cold shoulder to Motorola only closes Apple's options, and Apple needs as many options as it can get.
So while Apple is certainly researching how to economically produce a G5 Powerbook, Motorola has its place with the current line-up a little while longer. Perhaps the best thing Apple can do is simply say "so long!" and part with a smile and a wave.
The day that Apple stands alone is a terrible day. It's already too bad that we've seen it happen before.

AHDuke99
Jul 28, 2003, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by Marble
It doesn't make any sense to piss anyone off on purpose. Motorola is a big company that is not following through for Apple *now*, but may very well become a leading competitor again in the next several years, or the next decade, or whatever. Giving the cold shoulder to Motorola only closes Apple's options, and Apple needs as many options as it can get.
So while Apple is certainly researching how to economically produce a G5 Powerbook, Motorola has its place with the current line-up a little while longer. Perhaps the best thing Apple can do is simply say "so long!" and part with a smile and a wave.
The day that Apple stands alone is a terrible day. It's already too bad that we've seen it happen before.

True, just letting off some steam. I wish Apple would say something though. Maybe they'll surprise everyone and release the new PBs at Siggraph on tuesday.

sen_almighty
Jul 28, 2003, 12:45 AM
wateva happened to the "year of the laptop".......no upgrades to the 15 inch model for soooo long, and not soo fast processor speeds anymore, and now that the g5s are out, they seem puny almost (power wise)

rainman::|:|
Jul 28, 2003, 12:55 AM
i personally don't think motorola is ever going to be a leader in this field again... i'll bet in 3 years, they won't even have microprocessor research divisions.

pnw

Rezet
Jul 28, 2003, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by paulwhannel
i personally don't think motorola is ever going to be a leader in this field again... i'll bet in 3 years, they won't even have microprocessor research divisions.

pnw


Heh, maybe. Considering that Finnish company Nokia is leading cell phone business. Maybe they will kill MOT there as well.

Check out MOT at nasdaq.

Marble
Jul 28, 2003, 01:02 AM
Yah, but you never know. It's all about options. Maybe Motorola could end up producing a different product for Apple. They are certainly a big enough company with enough different products.

ZildjianKX
Jul 28, 2003, 02:16 AM
Didn't you just post this on macnn? :p

ftaok
Jul 28, 2003, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by AHDuke99
Since Moto has already screwed up again, I think the best thing for Apple to do is screw Moto, and get IBM cranking on a 970 that can run in the PB's. If Apple can't release the PBs until September, AFTER all the students have gone back, who's gonna buy them, when the G5's are just around the corner in Jan/Feb 2004, hell if it goes to Paris, I will bite the bullet and use my non-DVI Tibook until the G5's come. I'm waited 6 months already, I might as well wait another 3.5 months til January to get the "World's First 64-bit Laptop". Either way, Apple will lose this time. So my advise to them on the PB's now, SCREW MOTOROLA, LET"S GET IBM GOING ON THE G5's FOR THE PB's, then just bring those to Paris in two months, not just speed bumps for the current line. Moto needs to go, I don't see why Joz said "Our relationship with Moto is important". Sheez. The faster Apple rids themself from Moto the better. And when January rolls around and there is no 970-based PowerBook, are you going to be calling for IBM's head on a platter?

Sheesh. Moto's 7457 is due this quarter. In fact, they've moved up the shipping date from Q4 to Q3. Whether Apple uses it or not is their choice. Right now, Apple's delay (real or perceived) with the PowerBook has nothing to do with Motorola. Until Apple let's everyone in on their plan (good luck), the delay is Apple's fault.

gopher
Jul 28, 2003, 07:31 AM
Apple may be delaying the release of these Powerbooks because they know of a technical issue that if they released it would make people hate them. I would rather they delayed and found all the faults they could before actually shipping a product.

One technical issue they have to face in delivering this product is that there will be no more high end notebooks bootable into Mac OS 9. Until you get more Mac users using X, more than 50%, I wouldn't drop the ball on 9 just yet. Only 1/5th of all Mac users are using X as of the WWDC. That's peanuts to where Apple should have it in order to move up. We know Apple will release more machines that are Mac OS 9 only bootable, but the question really is, will they finally improve Classic to the point in Panther that you don't need to boot into Mac OS 9? Users should be clammering for an improved Classic by posting here:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/

Anticipat3
Jul 28, 2003, 03:01 PM
Are you living in a cave, man?

you're telling me that 80% of Mac users are running OS9?

Ha. Ha ha. HAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA.

Last MacPollls showed something like 90% of Mac users using X -- and I'd bet the other 10% is simply users with old, old hardware that can't run it.

OS9 is DEAD, and whether the zealots will admit it or not, it sucked big time, even from release.

OSX is Alive, and it is the future. Keeping it pushing forward is far more important that keeping the backward OS9 users happy.

Rezet
Jul 28, 2003, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Anticipat3
Are you living in a cave, man?

you're telling me that 80% of Mac users are running OS9?

Ha. Ha ha. HAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA.

Last MacPollls showed something like 90% of Mac users using X -- and I'd bet the other 10% is simply users with old, old hardware that can't run it.

OS9 is DEAD, and whether the zealots will admit it or not, it sucked big time, even from release.

OSX is Alive, and it is the future. Keeping it pushing forward is far more important that keeping the backward OS9 users happy.


I stand behind what he just said :))
As for motorola, I still think it's a decent company, and "screwing" it on purpose won't do anyone any good. Even if motorola is delaying chips, obviously they are not doing it on purpose.

gopher
Jul 28, 2003, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by Anticipat3
Are you living in a cave, man?

you're telling me that 80% of Mac users are running OS9?

Ha. Ha ha. HAHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA.

Last MacPollls showed something like 90% of Mac users using X -- and I'd bet the other 10% is simply users with old, old hardware that can't run it.

OS9 is DEAD, and whether the zealots will admit it or not, it sucked big time, even from release.

OSX is Alive, and it is the future. Keeping it pushing forward is far more important that keeping the backward OS9 users happy.

35 million Mac users.
7 million using Mac OS X.
You do the math. I stand by my statement.

Freg3000
Jul 28, 2003, 05:33 PM
Despite what Steve has said about Mac OS X doing absolutely great (which is it by the way) it still only makes up about 20% of the installed Mac user base. While a lot of schools who have a lot of iMacs probably have not switched to OS X distorts that number a little bit, Macs running OS 9 still out number OS X Macs by far. People who would answer a poll question @ Macpolls.com are Macheads, who of course are running OS X (no offense to Macpolls.)

Even though it might be nice to think that it is an OS X world-its not. At least not yet.

PS. On the actual topic in this thread,I want PowerBooks now too. :)

Schiffi
Jul 28, 2003, 05:48 PM
Here's a crazy idea. What if Apple convinced IBM to make a 32-bit 970? Call it G4.5, or *shuddder* mobile G4. Anyway that'd make the PB's faster and rid the line of moto.

ColdZero
Jul 28, 2003, 06:45 PM
Making a 32 bit 970 isn't going to be an easy thing to do, its not like just shutting off 32 of the bits. The whole processor would be redesigned, it wouldn't be a 970 anymore.

Gus
Jul 28, 2003, 06:51 PM
I've also read that in those polls that count OS usage (9 vs X), that ANY person who currently has 9 installed, and even uses it in Classic only is being counted as an OS 9 user. That would greatly distort the polls in favor of 9.

I don't know, but if my mom can make the switch to X and like it better, I can't figure out whhy anyone with compatible hardware would want to keep 9 around. I loved when it was the only thing around, but it has definitely outlived its time.

Regards,
Gus

gopher
Jul 28, 2003, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by Gus
I've also read that in those polls that count OS usage (9 vs X), that ANY person who currently has 9 installed, and even uses it in Classic only is being counted as an OS 9 user. That would greatly distort the polls in favor of 9.

I don't know, but if my mom can make the switch to X and like it better, I can't figure out whhy anyone with compatible hardware would want to keep 9 around. I loved when it was the only thing around, but it has definitely outlived its time.

Regards,
Gus

Maybe once Panther is released with its nice left side navigation frame. But most people don't want to have to dig 3 folders deap to find their documents

It was so much simpler when you could drag to hard drive -> Documents than having to drop to hard drive -> users -> yourname -> Documents. Especially with the fact that spring loaded folders still doesn't work with the Dock, and only works with hard drive Finder windows. And many applications still do not open the rule that you can't hide windows under the dock. If window controls for manual resizing of windows were on the edges of windows it wouldn't matter that the dock floats over windows. But the dock, like the menubar should not obstruct the controls of active windows when windows are brought fullscreen. There is no definable edge you can grab the window by like in 9 to move it around, so the obstruction of the windows is even more at issue. Slight interface issues like these drive 9 users nuts. And no, I don't believe those internet polls. My mother isn't switching to X anytime soon. It was hard enough to get her to become a Mac user. I'm not about to convince her to switch to X. She's happy now.

If the interface, and the file topology was the same, I think more 9 users would switch to X. But with only 1 out of every 5 Mac users having switched to X, you can't convince me that we are ready to go all X only. While I've made the switch to X, it is only because I am geeky. It is only because I can see the value of it. But communicating it to someone who is not ready to become their own system administrator is going to be real hard. It needs to be as transparent as 9 is when deleting files. It needs to be possible to know where files are, have a preference manager to delete bad preferences when preferences start causing applications to unexpectedly quit, and it needs to do its own prebinding. X is ready for geek users, but not for all non-geeky users. People who are comfortable with their computers will never want to switch again.

illumin8
Jul 28, 2003, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by gopher
35 million Mac users.
7 million using Mac OS X.
You do the math. I stand by my statement.
Your numbers don't take into account that most of those 35 million machines are old and have been out of service for years. Are you counting 35 million "active" mac users as in 35 million Apple computers sold over the life of the company? If so, I'd like you to find someone using an original Macintosh as anything other than a goldfish tank... ;)

I think the real rate of adoption of OS X has been very fast except for the educational market.

Sakino
Jul 29, 2003, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by illumin8

I think the real rate of adoption of OS X has been very fast except for the educational market.

You are right on that one. Most of the schools I been to have been running on OS9 and I CANNOT STAND IT?!?!?!

jbomber
Jul 29, 2003, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by Gus
I've also read that in those polls that count OS usage (9 vs X), that ANY person who currently has 9 installed, and even uses it in Classic only is being counted as an OS 9 user. That would greatly distort the polls in favor of 9.

I don't know, but if my mom can make the switch to X and like it better, I can't figure out whhy anyone with compatible hardware would want to keep 9 around. I loved when it was the only thing around, but it has definitely outlived its time.

Regards,
Gus

I'm all for the switch to X. I'm running it on my personal machines, but my machine at work is still running 9. Not necessarily because i want to be running it, but with all the daily deadlines and stuff, i just don't have the time to organize everything and reinstall all the software, drivers, etc. I can see how a lot of mac users haven't switched over.

X is definitely the way to go, and i think that Apple would be INSANE to hold back on updating the 15" for the purpose of giving consumers an OS9 bootable box. Adapt people! Adapt!

rhpenguin
Jul 29, 2003, 09:45 AM
ive only used os 9 twice in my lifetime. the first time i used it, i thought it was too cluttered and very hard to use. the seccond time it killed my iBook and i couldnt boot into any os causing me to reinstall jag. OS X is a very easy to use operating system and i really enjoy using it. The layout is clean and takes almost no thought to use it. granted the finder could be a little better, but thats what panther is for.

I say OS X all the way. OS 9 can die for all i care.

bellis1
Jul 30, 2003, 06:52 AM
I cannot believe that people out there are still using OS 9. And who cares if your computer does not boot into OS 9 because classic works fine. I have been a mac user since the Mac + and an apple customer since the Apple IIe days and one of the greatest experiences is evolving with computers. So just a bit of advice: stop dragging your knuckles, try to stand upright, and install OS X or at least promise me that come september you'll be first in line to pet that pretty kitty.

primalman
Jul 30, 2003, 08:21 AM
I must say, in this thread and on others, I am dissappointed in the way people [these Mac people] dismiss Motorola so easialy, even though if they had just been following the reports over the last few months, they would see that Mot is apparently AHEAD of schedule on the 7557/47 chips.

They originally quoted Q4 of 03, recently they stated that they would be in production in Q3. That, my friends, is ahead of schedule.

And its not a screw up either, unless getting your homework done ahead of time makes you fail the class.

Just chill out, I am sure there are viable reasons, and I guarantee that having a portable PRO TiBook that can boot into OS9 is a big reason. Just think of all the big ad agencies and law offices that still need to make the switch to X. Need some transistion time. And that ubiquitous enterprise server app Exchange still needs the Mac client for OSX [Entourage], which the update is getting closer and closer to release.

I am sorry, but soooooo many people need that suck ass program Outlook for their jobs, plus QuarkXPress just got released, moving wholesale to X is just now going to get started. And having those two will drag many people from many industries into the X fold. Advertising, Prepress, Imaging, Law, Newspapers, Magazines, EDUCATION [lots of Macs there], and on and on and on....

tazo
Jul 30, 2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Sakino
You are right on that one. Most of the schools I been to have been running on OS9 and I CANNOT STAND IT?!?!?!

the only macs at my school that run X are the 600mhz g3 imacs in the library, the librarians 17'' pb, the fp imacs in marketing and science, and the dual 867 pmacs for video editing. so that is prolly like 50 or so macs running x....

gopher
Jul 30, 2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by bellis1
I cannot believe that people out there are still using OS 9. And who cares if your computer does not boot into OS 9 because classic works fine. I have been a mac user since the Mac + and an apple customer since the Apple IIe days and one of the greatest experiences is evolving with computers. So just a bit of advice: stop dragging your knuckles, try to stand upright, and install OS X or at least promise me that come september you'll be first in line to pet that pretty kitty.

Classic works fine...ha! That's a laugh if I ever heard one. Classic has so many hardware and driver related issues:

1. Numerous printers and scanners that work fine booting into 9
don't work at all in Classic, and quite a few don't have Mac OS X native drivers.

2. Quicktime plays back choppily in Classic but plays fine running natively. It improves with newer graphics cards, but even a Flat Panel iMac with 32 MB of VRAM still has problems with Quicktime in Classic. Apple's own software mind you!

3. Unless you knew it, PPPoE software needs to be disabled when running Classic and instead using the Mac OS X networking software to enable PPPoE for Classic network applications to work on PPPoE broadband networks. That means if you are moving to using Classic exclusively instead of booting into Mac OS 9, you need to make sure that you have disabled the 9 PPPoE software, otherwise you won't have a broadband connection. This has been a documented issue with Macpoet.

And that's only the tip of the iceburg. SCSI cards, SCSI scanners, Quark plugins, ProTools plugins, etc...

Until all Mac OS 9 booting software and hardware is on this page:
http://www.macmaps.com/macosxnative.html

There will be people who need to boot into Mac OS 9.