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Mr. Anderson
Jul 29, 2003, 10:18 AM
With competition from Europe and China growing, things could get really interesting soon.

Add to that the X-Prize and we might see a rebirth in space exploration that we haven't seen for decades since the Apollo program. :D

D

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/space/07/29/europe.usa.reut/index.html

Stelliform
Jul 29, 2003, 10:50 AM
Bring it on! I think Americans are too complacent unless threatened. It boggles the mind to think we were landing on the Moon over 30 years ago! And once the Soviet Union fell we have hardly had any interest in space exploration. :(

Glad to see other countries not relying on the US to produce all space exploration. We need some diversity and new ideas.

patrick0brien
Jul 29, 2003, 10:53 AM
-All

Check out this month's Wired.

wdlove
Jul 29, 2003, 11:24 AM
It does take competition that threatens us for America to act. I would also like to see some private enterprise in this new space race. There are some real commercial uses available now such as drug production!

Dont Hurt Me
Jul 29, 2003, 11:55 AM
it is a sad state of affairs when you look and see we landed on the moon 30 years ago and have not done crap since. a low orbit shuttle that is to complicated overpriced and dangerous, a space station that was designed,redesigned at least 3-4 times waisting millions maybe billions in wasted paper and 30 years later we dont have a easy way to get into space. Lets hope this does heat up and some forward looking companies will get man back into space and space exploration. Keep Govt out of it if its going to be done in a speedy,inexpensive way.

Mr. Anderson
Jul 29, 2003, 12:04 PM
There hasn't been any real good or solid development of products in space. Its all research and there are many at NASA who have complained that the *science* being done on the ISS is not really all that great and doesn't live up to the promises that were sold to everyone when the project started.

D

patrick0brien
Jul 29, 2003, 12:09 PM
Originally posted by wdlove
It does take competition that threatens us for America to act.

-wdlove

Struck the nail on the head there. The U.S. was founded on the idea of competition in basically everything, business, education, governance, etc.

Without competition, the U.S. has a difficult time getting of it's laurels, and getting support for doing so.

This is why monopolies are so dangerous here.

idea_hamster
Jul 29, 2003, 12:49 PM
I think that we should get off of our butts and launch a crew to Alpha Centauri so that we win!

...

Oh, wait, that's just Civilization... :D


Remind me -- how do we win in the real world?

johnnowak
Jul 29, 2003, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by idea_hamster


Remind me -- how do we win in the real world?

Win the nuclear arms race on mars.

jbomber
Jul 29, 2003, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by johnnowak
Win the nuclear arms race on mars.

already projected for 2106. what else do we need?

jbomber
Jul 29, 2003, 04:38 PM
yeah. the collapse of the soviet union ws one of those hollow 'victories' for the US.

"Yay, we beat them! Now what?" No one ever thought it through to the end. To some extent i think they never beleived it would happen.

America needed that mirror opposite to keep it on it's toes. Everything would come back to 'beating the soviets'. Must get into space quickly because we have to beat the Soviets. Gotta train harder for the Olympics because we have to beat the Soviets. Now that they're gone it's pretty lonely at the top.

wdlove
Jul 29, 2003, 04:58 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
There hasn't been any real good or solid development of products in space. Its all research and there are many at NASA who have complained that the *science* being done on the ISS is not really all that great and doesn't live up to the promises that were sold to everyone when the project started.

D

That is very sad to hear Mr. Anderson. I thought that we were doing successful science experiments in space. It is another example showing that private industry would do a much better job with the ISS. Govenment is just like a monoply too big to change and have the ability to run efficiently! :(

johnnowak
Jul 29, 2003, 05:07 PM
Originally posted by wdlove
That is very sad to hear Mr. Anderson. I thought that we were doing successful science experiments in space. It is another example showing that private industry would do a much better job with the ISS. Govenment is just like a monoply too big to change and have the ability to run efficiently! :(

The problem is the american people don't wanna pony up the tax dollars so we can fly space ships around. It's not cheap shooting stuff into space you know. Funding for NASA is crappy nowadays last I heard

patrick0brien
Jul 29, 2003, 05:59 PM
-All

This is a good example of when greed is good. Once space is open to big business, watch out!

voicegy
Jul 29, 2003, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by patrick0brien
-All

This is a good example of when greed is good. Once space is open to big business, watch out!

Watch out for what? Flying technological wonders whose sole purpose is to spout adverts a la Blade Runner? Rearrangement of the moons' surface to look like the Pepsi logo once a month? What other horrors await when greed overtakes?

Of course, I hope you were semi-joking.:(

Kethoticus
Jul 30, 2003, 12:45 AM
Geez people. EVERYONE performs best when under pressure. That is simply human nature -- not just American nature. We get complacent when we don't see anyone in our rearview mirrors. Why are China and Europe doing the space thing? Because both see the US as their principal competitor/opponent, not because they're just ambitious and creative and feel no particular need to surpass any particular country dominant in space exploration. (Russia doesn't have the finances to do it, so they're being left behind -- for now.)

Also keep in mind that the next big thing is Mars. We've already gone to the moon. The next logical destination is much, much farther away, and creates tons of logistics problems for us.

In the past 30 years, we've sent robot probes all over and out of the solar system. We've done a lot. New propulsion systems are on the drawing board. As money permits (and right now it doesn't), we will eventually colonize the moon and cultivate its richly fertile soil. We're in debt up to our eyes right now just trying to maintain our war on terrorism. Lunar colonization and other, more exotic space ventures are simply not budgetary priorities, unfortunately. And yet, we're still planning -- and launching -- more Martian probes every couple of years. The ultimate goal? To send a manned expedition to the red planet within the next 30 years -- hopefully before anyone else, or maybe in a co-venture with the Russians or Europeans (altho personally, I'd like to see us do it all ourselves).

Abstract
Jul 30, 2003, 03:46 AM
I'm tired of sending robots out into space. Some people want to go up there, like Lance Bass of N'Sync, so just send him up there and leave us the hell alone. Him or a monkey.......either will do. :cool:

Mr. Anderson
Jul 30, 2003, 07:29 AM
I've gone on about this before, but space won't open up until we have two things - single stage to orbit vehicles (which make it cheaper) and commercialization of space.

There is so much potential, its staggering. There was an interview with one of the men behind a team in the X-Prize that said the first man to successfully operate a Space Mining company (grabbing near-earth orbiting asteroids and processing the material, iron, platinum, water, you name it) will make Bill Gates look like a pauper.

I believe that. Investment advice? Look to see who's getting in the game now, there are a few. If any of these companies survive, they're going to be unbelievably huge. :D

D

patrick0brien
Jul 30, 2003, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
they're going to be unbelievably huge.

-Mr. Anderson

Weyland Utani here we come.

-voicegy

Not this time. Really.

If the human race is to survive, we need to keep expanding. That means space. And the governments of Earth won't lead us there.

Human expansion, of space, and of the Earth is all motivated by greed. Not the "mine! mine! mine!" kind, but a "Gee, I bet I can make money at that" kind.

This is what motivated the Spanish, English, and Dutch of the age of exploration. Sure, those may have been governmental, but it was for commercial gain.

Western expansion and Manifest Destiny of the younger U.S. "Go west [and make money] young man." The gold rushes, then oil, etc.

You see, human nature can be boiled down to a single sentence "Doing whatever make life easier for oneself." What a person does to accomplish this depends on their scope of thought. A common thief has a very small scope of thought, getting something without earning it, but doesn't think as far as the consequences.

Money, is the vehicle. If one has enough of it, can make life very easy. That's where we get greed from.