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MacRumors
Jul 29, 2003, 11:14 AM
PowerPage.org (http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=11271) claims that Apple is still having engineering problems with the 15" Aluminum PowerBook.

They also report that the PowerBook 17" as been End-of-Life'd (EOL'd).



GrizzlyHippo
Jul 29, 2003, 11:18 AM
Why page 2 Arn? Do you have info contrary to this or think it to be wrong??

Grizzly

Freg3000
Jul 29, 2003, 11:23 AM
Sorry, but what does engineering problems mean? It can't mean what I think it means (can't get DDR Ram, AE, Bluetooth, etc. in there) because they have had it in the 12" PB for 7 months now. Do they not have stable prototype models?

They have had so much time to get this right. I expected Moto to have problems on their end, but I never thought Apple would have problems like this after all this time.

Gaucho
Jul 29, 2003, 11:24 AM
Well, it seems that things aren't looking good for the AlB 15". From processor delays to engineering problems it seems that we might be waiting even longer for this revision. Like everyone else I am waiting for the new powerbooks to be released.

Once again, disappointing news...

arn
Jul 29, 2003, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by GrizzlyHippo
Why page 2 Arn? Do you have info contrary to this or think it to be wrong??

Grizzly

er... sorry, perhaps I should put the reason things are page 2'd regularly.

Basically, PowerPage hasn't been especially accurate lately, and this article doesn't provide any substantial new info.

arn

stefman
Jul 29, 2003, 11:29 AM
This is not good news. :(

Added to Moto not being able to deliver chips.

This is not good :(

Thirteenva
Jul 29, 2003, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Freg3000
Sorry, but what does engineering problems mean? It can't mean what I think it means (can't get DDR Ram, AE, Bluetooth, etc. in there) because they have had it in the 12" PB for 7 months now. Do they not have stable prototype models?

They have had so much time to get this right. I expected Moto to have problems on their end, but I never thought Apple would have problems like this after all this time.

If I'm remembering correctly the 17"pb was delayed due to engineering issues also.

But i agree, that this should have been sorted out already since the 12 and 17inch powerbooks have been in production for a while.

cubist
Jul 29, 2003, 11:52 AM
Maybe the engineering problem is that the 7457 isn't in the socket...

... or there's some erratum that makes it not able to talk to the RAM or something worse (argh).

bignumbers
Jul 29, 2003, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by Macrumors
They also report that the PowerBook 17" as been End-of-Life'd (EOL'd).

This is what caught my eye. The 17" has been selling well, so (if true) this could mean an update around the corner. Apple wouldn't EOL a model unless they're either killing it off or have a replacement in the pipeline (not just theoretically planned).

So either the PB problems have been ironed out, or whatever is affecting the 15" redo isn't a problem on the 17" and we'll see an update to that sooner.

The "year of the laptop" is moving along rather slowly!

yopro213
Jul 29, 2003, 12:11 PM
Maybe it is a dual processor machine and that is why they are having trouble.

dabirdwell
Jul 29, 2003, 12:17 PM
maybe the G5 is not going into the 12" and the 17 needs a case mod before accepting the new hardware? This could explain the EOL and the 15" delay.

Far fetched...

Lord Bodak
Jul 29, 2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by bignumbers
This is what caught my eye. The 17" has been selling well, so (if true) this could mean an update around the corner. Apple wouldn't EOL a model unless they're either killing it off or have a replacement in the pipeline (not just theoretically planned).

So either the PB problems have been ironed out, or whatever is affecting the 15" redo isn't a problem on the 17" and we'll see an update to that sooner.

The "year of the laptop" is moving along rather slowly!

If you read the article, they claim that the current 17" has been EOL'ed with a Rev. B expected shortly.

My question then is, why hasn't the 12" also been EOL'ed?

supercres
Jul 29, 2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Lord Bodak
My question then is, why hasn't the 12" also been EOL'ed?

It's strange, because the 17" was the only PB not included in June's price reduction. They must be selling well if Apple didn't see fit to take the price down; 12" and 15" machines went down in price about $200...

Perhaps it was the 15" that was EOL'd (pretty please)? :confused:

daveL
Jul 29, 2003, 12:40 PM
Sounds like BS to me. They wouldn't invest in the 17" only to EOL it 6 months later, just as the PC competition starts to roll out similar gear. The comment about the 15" doesn't make much sense, either.

betoranaldi
Jul 29, 2003, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by daveL
Sounds like BS to me. They wouldn't invest in the 17" only to EOL it 6 months later, just as the PC competition starts to roll out similar gear. The comment about the 15" doesn't make much sense, either.

If you read the article, its not that they are discontinueing the 17inch model they are just eol'd rev a and a revision b will surface.

jaedreth
Jul 29, 2003, 01:13 PM
Keep in mind the 12" doesn't have all the features the 17" has or the 15" should have. They may be having engineering issues fitting everything that is already supposed to be in the 15" along with the new technology added.

They've got a lot of things they have to fit on that one logic board. Perhaps the engineering problems are creating a stable logic board that has everything built in.

They have to fit everything they had fit in, plus they have to replace the old airport with the new, fit in bluetooth, and keep it from shorting out. They got the 12" small because they basically made it a glorified ibook. No PC-slot. No bottom ram slot...

Interesting that the 17" is EOL but the 15" and 12" are not.

Jaedreth

DHagan4755
Jul 29, 2003, 01:17 PM
Can we second/third/fourth source this 17-inch EOL business? Anyone work at CompUSA or an Apple Store care to anonymously comment?

Wonder Boy
Jul 29, 2003, 01:21 PM
I'm not interested in buying a new laptop, i'm happy with my 12'' ibook. But i am getting really frustrated waiting for the new PB's. I like seeing new things come out, even if i wont be buying them. its exciting. I getting really tired of reading the PB rumors. Its a similar deal as the ipod. i waited and waited for that damn thing, reading rumors 100x a day. and when it finally came out, it was like a weight had been lifted. i went out and bought one on the first day possible. then i waited for the next big thing...the g5. ok that came out and i still dont care (Ives dropped the ball IMHO. anyway. now we wait for the PB. I cant begin to understand the pressure you potential PB buyers are going through. Dont dont worry too much. it will be over soon. maybe. i hope so. maybe not.

JtheLemur
Jul 29, 2003, 01:47 PM
PowerPage, in addition to being inaccurate, has been one of the worst sites (Mac-oriented or not) for the past... year or so.

jbomber
Jul 29, 2003, 02:20 PM
so i take it a rev b 17" would roll at the same time as a 15" alubook? man... i've been in limbo so long. I almost broke down and bought a 17" today after waiting forever for a 15" to surface. Now with news of an impending update to THAT book, I'm torn again.

age
Jul 29, 2003, 02:41 PM
Sad, sad, sad.

Feb. 20 of this year I was all ready to buy a new 15" PB, and my friend said WAIT! THERE WILL BE UPDATES ANY DAY NOW! Actually, he predicted within two weeks... and suggested I start going to Macrumors on a regular basis.

Well, I can't say the tip to check out Macrumors has been unrewarding (I am addicted now), but DANG it has been a long time waiting for this update... and in that entire time, I always thought it was not more than a few weeks-- until now, it is further away than it's ever been!

jaedreth
Jul 29, 2003, 03:21 PM
I would take anything these people say with a grain of salt. However, analyzing this closer, the news doesn't look so bad.

1) The PowerBook G4 15" is in Beta. Not alpha. Not pre-alpha.

2) The issues are not significant.

3) Fan noise has been an issue.

Ok, so this means, best case scenario (not worse case):

The only major issue is with fan noise. The fans are running constantly due to greater heat, but not enough to be a technical issue, but Apple knowing its customers, won't be happy with the current level of fan noise. So while they're waiting for Moto to get it in gear, they might as well work on the cooling system more.

If that is the case, that would be good news. And then the 15" may be announced the same time as the updated 12 and 17 inches, but not ship for a month or month and a half later. Big whop. Announce them asap! -- Jaedreth
_____
According to PowerPage sources Apple engineers are still having some problems with some aspects of the new Aluminum PowerBook 15-inch. The issues are not significant but they aren't fixed yet either.

Motorola are trying their best to ramp up production of the PowerPC 7457 processors, but the yields are low, so they don't want to start delivering them quite yet. There are still a few 15-Inch Ti's out there in the channel sitting on shelves too.

The new 15.4-inch screen is really bright, and the nVidia graphics chip is pretty strong. Fan noise has been an issue though. The industrial design is really sharp, it fits right in between the 17 and the 12. It looks so good it will sell it self once the bugs are worked out of the machine.

As previously stated the current 1GHz PB17 is EOL (end of lifed) with revision B expected shortly.

DrGonzo
Jul 29, 2003, 03:54 PM
What a joke, i thought the 7457s were supposed to REDUCE the need for intensive usage of fans... apparently not. How sad is that, they get a NEW cpu that doesn't even have a yield of 50%, runs hot (or so it seems from this), and is starting to look like it's gunna get used in one revision of powerbooks (hopefully g5 is relatively soon). The thing is only gunna run at like 1-1.3ghz which is essentially what the current g4s run at. So i really can't understand any heat issues. If it was shrinking the die and increasing clockspeed by 500mhz i could understand more. And NVIDIA for display chip? I want the Ati 9600 mobile chip, but i want a 15" powerbook NOW and we know that's not gunna happen ;) Well this sucks, but it's really nothing we didn't know before, delays, delays, and more delays...

solvs
Jul 29, 2003, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by JtheLemur
PowerPage, in addition to being inaccurate, has been one of the worst sites (Mac-oriented or not) for the past... year or so.

What about MacOSRumors (not to be confused with this site, which I love)?

New PowerBooks in late Sept. Possibly early Oct. Blame it on Motorola. And Apple for being a glutton of punishment. Until then, expect to be seeing a ton of these threads.

I'm not getting my hopes up for anything spectacular, so I don't expect to be too disappointed.

Whereas most of you expecting dual G4s and/or G5s, will be.

Thirteenva
Jul 29, 2003, 04:47 PM
Originally posted by DrGonzo
What a joke, i thought the 7457s were supposed to REDUCE the need for intensive usage of fans... apparently not. How sad is that, they get a NEW cpu that doesn't even have a yield of 50%, runs hot (or so it seems from this), and is starting to look like it's gunna get used in one revision of powerbooks (hopefully g5 is relatively soon). The thing is only gunna run at like 1-1.3ghz which is essentially what the current g4s run at. So i really can't understand any heat issues. If it was shrinking the die and increasing clockspeed by 500mhz i could understand more. And NVIDIA for display chip? I want the Ati 9600 mobile chip, but i want a 15" powerbook NOW and we know that's not gunna happen ;) Well this sucks, but it's really nothing we didn't know before, delays, delays, and more delays...

whoa....We don't know that it is a cooling issue yet, so lets not start getting bent out of shape over nothing...

Could be any number of things.... chip supply shortages... motherboard issues... cooling issues.... issues with the new 15.4 inch lcd... various part shortages or problems.....

need i go on?

cb911
Jul 29, 2003, 04:48 PM
it's interesting that they say that there are heat problems. they've moved from a 0.18 micron to a 0.13 micron process for the 7457 and it's only gone up to 1.33GHz. that alone doesn't seem like it would be much of a problem.

isn't the die size smaller on the 7457? could they have heat problems because they're trying to put two of them in there?

Thirteenva
Jul 29, 2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by cb911
it's interesting that they say that there are heat problems. they've moved from a 0.18 micron to a 0.13 micron process for the 7457 and it's only gone up to 1.33GHz. that alone doesn't seem like it would be much of a problem.

isn't the die size smaller on the 7457? could they have heat problems because they're trying to put two of them in there?


I don't recall the article saying anything about heat issues, as i stated in my above post, we don't KNOW that it is heat issues so lets not get all stirred up about it.

It does mention fan noise but that has been a complaint for the past couple powerbook revisions.

My fan is pretty loud at full tilt on my rev. A tibook.

DrGonzo
Jul 29, 2003, 05:09 PM
we don't know much about anything regarding the 15" PB other than it should be released soon. This is a page2 thread, anything said in this thread is purely speculative and thus should not be subjected to any sort of analysis.

Raidiant
Jul 29, 2003, 05:12 PM
I am beginning to think the 12" PB is meant to be an ibook replacement, but because the motorola chips were so slow, they can't make a formidable ibook otherwise nobody would buy powerbooks.

I think the engineering problems all come from the fact that they are trying to squeeze so much technology in a 1 inch thin computer. Likewise we need bluetooth, the new airport and other modifications making the 15" powerbook truly a challenge. I won't be suprised if the new line of 15" pbs had its own host of problems.

jaedreth
Jul 29, 2003, 05:15 PM
My speculation on Fan Noise being the issue was not one necessarily stating anything about heat issues.

The PB 12" has heat issues. Right under the left side, where the HD is. Turn on HD sleep, it will be a lot better.

Fan noise also has to do with acustics.

It may also be that they have a limited choice of suppliers for fans, and the ones they're using are technically more powerful than needed, and make more noise, but the model down from those will not always be enough, though would be in ideal conditions. While this is not a major concern, deal with the unit getting a little warmer, or creating a little more noise, it's give and take. And this is but one possibility.

Keep in mind, the chip isn't the only thing that creates heat. Also, more technology is being shoved in.

But again, no reports of the unit having heat issues, only that they are having fan noise issues.

And given the materials they'd be using, I'm not surprised that they would encounter this.

But this is hopeful news, because it *is* in beta, and I'm certain it was nowhere near beta in January, and that many design issues have been resolved.

However, there may be an as-of-yet unannounced feature that is being incorporated into all PowerBooks, which would make sense for this long delay. But again, aside some minor issues with the 15", if Moto had kept their end, we could have had new machines at WWDC.

At least announced.

Right now I'm not expecting anything more than 1GHz and 1.3GHz though I am anticipating new goodies if not in this rev, in the next. I have a feeling Apple is about to do something new with portables that no one else is even close to doing, and will revolutionize the industry again. Of course, until it happens, whatever it is, it's just fluff. I just have a feeling...

Jaedreth

Mattski
Jul 29, 2003, 06:03 PM
This is complete crap.

We will not see any new 15" PB's until there are no stocks of the old ones.

Simple business rules kids.

Powerbook G5
Jul 29, 2003, 06:08 PM
That doesn't make sense, though. If they don't sell the new 15" because of remaining 15" Powerbooks on shelves, but no one is buying them because the new 15" Powerbooks are waiting, then it'd be a long, long time before that would work itself out. It just doesn't make sense. I am sure the new Powerbooks will come out the moment they are able to be sold in a practical quantity.

neutrino23
Jul 29, 2003, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by Powerbook G5
That doesn't make sense, though. If they don't sell the new 15" because of remaining 15" Powerbooks on shelves, but no one is buying them because the new 15" Powerbooks are waiting, then it'd be a long, long time before that would work itself out. It just doesn't make sense. I am sure the new Powerbooks will come out the moment they are able to be sold in a practical quantity.

According to the recent analyst call-in after the earnings announcement the PBs are selling fairly well. There is no evidence that there is a glut of PBs in the channel. The delay of the PBs is clearly an engineering/vendor problem, not a marketing decision. Not everyone reads the rumor sites and those that do don't always believe them. Besides, if you need a PB and you have the funds there is nothing wrong with the Ti Book. It works well.

Powerbook G5
Jul 29, 2003, 06:36 PM
Yeah, I also believe it's purely a technical reason why they aren't selling the new 15" books right now. I remember reading rumors back in April (I think from Macwhispers) and they were declaring that the 15" AlBooks were already finished and in warehouses ready to be sold once Apple clears the channels of the Ti models. Perhaps if there was a large quantity that could be a just excuse for a month or so, but I refuse to believe that Apple has a huge stock of new Powerbooks that they refuse to sell simply because there are a few Ti models on shelves. At this point, I can see Apple wanting to flood the channels ASAP once they have the new models in hand and not withholding them to make a few bucks on selling older ones. If new ones are out, I am sure people would still buy old ones at a reduced price just as there are people buying the old G4 PowerMacs even when the G5 is available for order.

wizard
Jul 29, 2003, 06:41 PM
Who's to say that we are only going to get 1.3 GHz? Remember most people where expecting only 1.8 GHz for the 970s. I honestly believe that Apple is putting alot of effort into hitting atleast 1.5 GHz with these machines. I could be wrong as I really have no contacts what so ever, but the 7457 is not only a die shrink but other process technologies are being applied. (Which may be part of the reason for the delays) This would explain at least in some part the rumors about heat, because otherwise they should run cooler. A 50% or better raw performance increase would be ideal.

I'm with you as far as the NVidia chip goes. ATI would be a better choice. Even here ATI could have been part of the reason for the delay as it took them a long time to release their last laptop chip.

I'm not sure when it is going to happen, but I think Apple realizes that if they don't deliever something in the next couple of weeks alot of sales are going to be missed for the next school season.

Thanks
Dave


Originally posted by DrGonzo
What a joke, i thought the 7457s were supposed to REDUCE the need for intensive usage of fans... apparently not. How sad is that, they get a NEW cpu that doesn't even have a yield of 50%, runs hot (or so it seems from this), and is starting to look like it's gunna get used in one revision of powerbooks (hopefully g5 is relatively soon). The thing is only gunna run at like 1-1.3ghz which is essentially what the current g4s run at. So i really can't understand any heat issues. If it was shrinking the die and increasing clockspeed by 500mhz i could understand more. And NVIDIA for display chip? I want the Ati 9600 mobile chip, but i want a 15" powerbook NOW and we know that's not gunna happen ;) Well this sucks, but it's really nothing we didn't know before, delays, delays, and more delays...

Powerbook G5
Jul 29, 2003, 06:50 PM
You'd think they'd switch to ATI, wouldn't you. I thought to myself maybe they would after seeing the G5 lineup. It seems like Apple realized that ATI was higher end since the low end has the nVidia and the high end has the ATI graphics card.

Rocketman
Jul 29, 2003, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by arn
er... sorry, perhaps I should put the reason things are page 2'd regularly.

Basically, PowerPage hasn't been especially accurate lately, and this article doesn't provide any substantial new info.

arn

Maybe we will get lucky and Steve will get PISSED at Motorola and trash the G4 entirely in Powerbooks in favor of lower speed G5's. Lower heat, longer legs, far better markleting sizzle and (gag) he can GET THE CHIPS!

Rocketman

jaedreth
Jul 29, 2003, 07:14 PM
Well, Apple *used* to ship ATI exclusively, and back then ATI wasn't as good as NVidia.

However, ATI stole Steve's thunder, and announced it's new product in a new and unannounced Apple product just days before a MacWorld. It was shortly after that Apple moved to NVidia.

Jaedreth

jaedreth
Jul 29, 2003, 07:15 PM
Sure he can get the chips...

But the logic boards to support those chips won't be available until at least January.

If Apple did scrap G4 PowerBook for G5 PowerBooks, we'd be waiting until Feb or March.

Jaedreth

Powerbook G5
Jul 29, 2003, 07:24 PM
I sure hope I never piss off Steve *shudders* I can't even imagine how much revenge he may have cooked up for Mr. Gates when he someday tears down Windows...

Mattski
Jul 29, 2003, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by neutrino23
The delay of the PBs is clearly an engineering/vendor problem, not a marketing decision. Not everyone reads the rumor sites and those that do don't always believe them. Besides, if you need a PB and you have the funds there is nothing wrong with the Ti Book. It works well.

This has nothing to do with rumors or who reads them.

This is not like G4 iMacs vs G3 iMacs, where there is space for both in the line up.

It would be fair to assume that production of the 15" Ti ended quite some time ago, given they are still shipping this indicates some residual stock.

With an update like this Apple have always cleared their inventory first.

jaedreth
Jul 29, 2003, 09:28 PM
Yes, they have, however, these are not ideal circumstances.

If suddenly, Apple had everything together so they could ship these units, yet they still had inventory, they would likely box them out back of the warehouse, and then sell them cheap on a sidebar on the Apple Store.

Apple knows we've been waiting this long, and Moto has been @%!$#%@ so they are trying their best to get these products to us asap.

Jaedreth

jzieske
Jul 29, 2003, 09:51 PM
I know that there are plenty of people out there (including me) who would consider buying an old TiBook when new AlPB's are out. That is of course assuming they drop the price a couple hundred $$. Apple knows that they can clear inventory after announcing new Books by dropping prices on TiBooks clearign the channel can NOT be the reason for the wait.

macnews
Jul 30, 2003, 02:07 AM
I'm just praying this really deserves to be on page two (or three) and not something we see up on page one in the next month or so.

sacrilicious
Jul 30, 2003, 05:34 AM
Originally posted by wizard
Who's to say that we are only going to get 1.3 GHz? Remember most people where expecting only 1.8 GHz for the 970s. I honestly believe that Apple is putting alot of effort into hitting atleast 1.5 GHz with these machines. I could be wrong as I really have no contacts what so ever, but the 7457 is not only a die shrink but other process technologies are being applied. (Which may be part of the reason for the delays) This would explain at least in some part the rumors about heat, because otherwise they should run cooler. A 50% or better raw performance increase would be ideal.

I'm with you as far as the NVidia chip goes. ATI would be a better choice. Even here ATI could have been part of the reason for the delay as it took them a long time to release their last laptop chip.

I'm not sure when it is going to happen, but I think Apple realizes that if they don't deliever something in the next couple of weeks alot of sales are going to be missed for the next school season.

Thanks
Dave

Yeah, everyone was estimating low before the 1Ghz 15" was released, too. As much as I cannot stand the "delay" that I believe in because of this site--I mean, why else would I expect a release?--I have been constantly impressed when Apple has ended up releasing their products. The PowerMac G5 is the lastest example of this. Even when the image was leaked of the stats, most people, including myself, as I remember, thought that it was obviously a fake because it was so quick.

MattG
Jul 30, 2003, 11:44 AM
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=10756

Moz
Jul 30, 2003, 12:13 PM
Alas, after waiting over half a year, I've decided to break down and get a ThinkPad.

I haven't been impressed with Apple's offerings in the laptop market. The 12" is too small; the 17" is too big and too expensive. The iBooks, are still in the "megahertz" range. PC laptops seem to be faster than the iBooks, and comprable in price.

I have an old G4 450 at home, and it's the only Macintosh I've ever purchased. With the release of Jaguar, the 450 (with 1.5 gb ram) is a dog. It's slow & clumsy. I've wanted to invest in a new more powerful PowerBook for a while, and have been waiting on the 15" to be updated.

To me, Apple has waited too long, and their iBook offereings are not powerful enough, and they're missing a crucial segment (the 15" in the professional market). I think Apple has waited too long in their updates for this machine, and are losing customers now for it.

I'll keep my G4 450, and use it for music, or maybe a server, but will switch to a more powerful ThinkPad to do my work on. At least those are in abundant supply. I am willing to wait for a better product, but 8, 9, 10 months to a year is ridiculous in the computer industry. My own HO is that Apple really is messing this one up, and losing potential customers for it.

RobVanDam
Jul 30, 2003, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by Mattski
This is complete crap.

We will not see any new 15" PB's until there are no stocks of the old ones.

Simple business rules kids. Not quite.

It's at the point where it's BETTER business to introduce the new models soon and discount the old PB's a little. Seeing as though school will be back in session in a few months, and there's already a huge amount of people waiting to get their hands on this new aluminium PB. Not to mention the fact that the wait has been so long, they're starting to lose customers to IBM, Gateway, Dell, etc.

macphoria
Jul 30, 2003, 12:34 PM
Do they actually have engineering problem with 15" Aluminium PowerBook? Or is that another way of saying "We are not getting enough G4 processor supplies from Motorola"?

blueflame
Jul 30, 2003, 12:34 PM
Is is possible that apple is pulling an Intel?
It seems to me, that apple may just release the new moto processor and put in in the powerbooks as a g5. kind of like what intel did with ther centrino. then the g4 could become the low end of the line, and go into ibooks, increasing the jump for eveything.

what do ya'll think, this seems entirely feasable.
Andreas

Powerbook G5
Jul 30, 2003, 01:20 PM
That seems completely off. The G5 is an entirely different breed of processor. It's 64 bit, has a completely different chipset, system controller, capabilities, etc. If Apple just renamed the 7457 a G5, you would quickly see chaos as hordes of people will call Apple on that white lie.

jaedreth
Jul 30, 2003, 02:21 PM
Just because Intel got away with it, doesn't mean Apple would even try, and if they did, Apple's customers aren't that dumb... Well, some of them aren't that dumb. *joking*

In short, Apple wouldn't. Period.

Jaedreth

big
Jul 30, 2003, 10:02 PM
This is complete crap.

We will not see any new 15" PB's until there are no stocks of the old ones.

Simple business rules kids.

actually, resellers can sell older products at a discount and receive a reimbursment from Apple to make up the difference in price (since the resellers buy the machines, they can not lose money on them)

so we know that statement is false

panphage
Jul 31, 2003, 12:08 AM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is complete crap.

We will not see any new 15" PB's until there are no stocks of the old ones.

Simple business rules kids.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by big
actually, resellers can sell older products at a discount and receive a reimbursment from Apple to make up the difference in price (since the resellers buy the machines, they can not lose money on them)

so we know that statement is false

Not to mention the fact that I guarantee you that apple didn't have 9 months of stock sitting around. How many times do we have to see this claim? If apple wanted to run out of tibooks, it'd take a week or two max.

jaedreth
Jul 31, 2003, 12:33 AM
Right on.

Apple keeps its inventory low. It's gotten so good at inventory, they can have more or less on a dime. If Apple stopped making TiBooks right now, Apple would sell them all easily within two weeks. If even that. Doesn't matter how low the demand is. Apple does *not* keep a lot of product in warehouse.

These promotions are designed to maximize Apple's profits in *this* quarter, because sales are going to slump due to an expected announcement.

In short, Apple's supply will run out when Apple wants it to.

Jaedreth

Gymnut
Aug 1, 2003, 04:51 PM
Maybe Apple will unveil a 20" PB :D

daveL
Aug 1, 2003, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by jaedreth
Right on.

Apple keeps its inventory low. It's gotten so good at inventory, they can have more or less on a dime. If Apple stopped making TiBooks right now, Apple would sell them all easily within two weeks. If even that. Doesn't matter how low the demand is. Apple does *not* keep a lot of product in warehouse.

These promotions are designed to maximize Apple's profits in *this* quarter, because sales are going to slump due to an expected announcement.

In short, Apple's supply will run out when Apple wants it to.

Jaedreth
To support your point, when I ordered my 15" PB last November, it was shipped directly to me from Asia. I got the feeling that it was virtually made to order, but it wasn't a custom config.

jaedreth
Aug 1, 2003, 05:06 PM
After the low sales on the 17"?

Jaedreth

MacFan26
Aug 2, 2003, 04:00 AM
Originally posted by daveL
To support your point, when I ordered my 15" PB last November, it was shipped directly to me from Asia. I got the feeling that it was virtually made to order, but it wasn't a custom config.


I ordered my 15" PB a few weeks ago, and it also arrived from Asia, as a matter of fact, so did my iPod. Maybe they ship all of their online orders from Asia?

wowoah
Aug 2, 2003, 04:05 PM
After the low sales on the 17"?

Isn't the 17 selling well? At least, that's the impression I got.

jaedreth
Aug 3, 2003, 12:38 PM
I haven't seen sales figures for it, however, everyone I talk to (and talked to while I still worked at apple) all said it was way to heavy and bulky, that they would prefer the 15".

So I figured if so many different people are all saying the same thing, that sales were likely slow.

But no, I don't have specific knowledge.

Jaedreth

DrGonzo
Aug 4, 2003, 03:16 PM
From what i gather the 17" is selling well for it's primary target audience, and it's not like they're producing tons of them, that was never their purpose (though i suppose it would be if people started scooping them up). It's a niche market for a laptop like that, and as i said, i think it's selling well or at least was as it's due for another rev soon.