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ewgrego
Jul 29, 2003, 01:21 PM
Hey guys.
I'm looking at buying my first Mac, probably a 12" ibook/900Mhz/Combo Drive.

You guys probably get this at least once a week, but

iBook: buy now or wait till mid-September (Apple Expo Paris)?

It's not that I want to buy something faster than 900...In my mind the, the Combo drive is the crucial bit. it's just that I've seen threads saying that the entry-iBook (presumably at $999) will soon include the Combo drive and possibly some other stuff that the current entry model does not.

Thoughts, speculations?

Eniregnat
Jul 29, 2003, 01:31 PM
If you plan to use it as a tool, buy it now.
If you need it now, get it now.
If you’re looking for a fun gadget, wait.
No matter what you do, you will find out that that the latest and greatest came out after you made you purchase.

Get AppleCare, a spare battery and AC adapter, and get a good case.

If you’re a student, exploit the discounts on equipment and software wile you can.

Kwyjibo
Jul 29, 2003, 02:27 PM
I would buy it now regardless, 1199 is a great price , last year a machine with the specs of the current combo model was 1499 retail, thats a huge jump. I don't expect iBook updates in september more like late october early november....

iShater
Jul 29, 2003, 02:55 PM
I agree that if you need a new system, get it now. I doubt any upgrades to the iBook will make significant changes. And you will love it from the moment you get it, trust me on that one! :D

dcoltonbrown
Jul 29, 2003, 03:12 PM
If I were you, I wouldn't spend a dime on the iBook. I have one and it has been in for repairs twice now in the past 40 days. Not to mention the fact that the computer is BARELY 4 months old.

It is a display/ logic board problem that many iBook owners are experiencing...just check out apple's website under support/discussions/iBook/displays.

Did I mention that Apple won't even recognize this as an issue, eventhough hundreds if not thousands of consumers are complaining about it? They just send you a box, replace the logic board with the same faulty product and return it for the problem to occur again.

Save yourself the trouble, get a Sony Vaio.

solvs
Jul 29, 2003, 03:47 PM
I have not heard of such a widespread iBook problem.

Usually, especially if you have AppleCare, they will replace the system with a new one if your old one fails. And if you're not satified within a certain amount of time, you can get your money back or the difference in prices if a new system is released. Restrictions do apply, but AppleCare is worth it, especially if you're a student and it's cheaper.

It's better than Sony's 1 year warranty. I had such a hassle with my Mom's XP Vaio. My Stepmom's Win2000 Dell, too. With it's one hour of battery life. Not to mention that a lot of the new Windows laptops are more expensive than comparable Apple systems. And heavier. And if you want to get an Apple, don't let one person's opinion turn you off.

The last update to the iBook was in April, so a new one won't be coming for awhile. The next-gen IBM G3 isn't due til the end of the year. The PowerBooks are due for an update soon, though. If you want an iBook, buy one now. The extra 100 MHz will be worth it. If you can wait a few months, you can get a new one, or a 12" PowerBook, but the low end iBook will probably still have a CD-Rom only.

If you are a student, buy through Apple. You can get an education discount, and rebates on things like printers and iPods. If not, buy from someplace like PowerMax (http://www.powermax.com) or MacSolutions (http://www.macsolutions.com). Low or free shipping, sometimes no tax, lots of extras. Just be sure to buy AppleCare, an extra battery, VGA and TV-out connectors if you want it, and load it full of third party RAM.

You'll be happy.

Abstract
Jul 29, 2003, 03:48 PM
The logic board problem is true, but a large majority of people are fine and happy. But of course you'll meet people with problems at the Apple support board........its a support board. ;)

I'm sure Sony is just as bad in terms of how many lemons they produce, except they didn't bother putting up a support board in order to acquire help as easy. And for this reason, Apple also provides a better service to Apple users. :cool: I also hear that Sony doesn't provide good customer service, period. Dell does better, but their products are crap.


This is what I think of Sony's customer service as opposed to Apple's........

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/225254/owned.jpg

solvs
Jul 29, 2003, 04:01 PM
Yes, sorry, perhaps I should have clarified the "widespread" part. Some of them have been faulty, and some people have problem with support. But I agree with Abstract. Apple customer service isn't perfect, but it's better than Sony's IMO. And Dells. No offense to the newbie above, it is unfortunate, but this is more bad luck than widespread problem. If everyone had a problem, the iBooks wouldn't be as popular.

As with any product, there are some bad ones. Some of the early eMacs had display problems, some of the TiBooks have paint flaking, but generally you hear more from the people who had problems than the people who don't. If he wanted to buy a PC, he probably would have said so. So lets please not turn this into a "Mac vs. PC, Apple's iBooks suck", etc. Maybe some of you who have iBooks that work can reassure him.

I had a G3 PowerBook, that my Mom now has, that is still working just fine. Much better than her Vaio, that my Stepfather now uses only to check his e-mail.

dcoltonbrown
Jul 29, 2003, 04:02 PM
Actually, I never had a problem with sony, so I don't know about their customer service. 4 years old, still running strong. My iBook on the other hand - 4 months old and in for service for the second time. Just take a look at the discussion board and decide for yourself. I am just trying to save you from a whole lot of headache in the future. I am not talking about random problems by disgruntled iBook owners. I am talking about a discernable trend with similar symptons and the same diagnosis...a faulty logic board.


Oh, and as for customer service...there is no way that you can convince me that Apple has good customer service! They have lied to me, they won't return a phone call, and 9 out of ten times their information is useless. Their solution to everything is to reinstall osx or to reset pmu. Just because they can turn a repair around in a day doesn't mean that they have good customer service, it only means that they have streamlined their repair centers to turn around all of the faulty logic boards they have to replace. Smoke and mirrors kids, smoke and mirrors!

And I am not trying to turn this into a pc vs mac argument...I should never have brought up the vaio. I just really think you should carefullly consider a $1000+ investment.

But when your display goes out, and your midterm paper is on your hardrive - that you didn't back up because it has only been in their for an hour - and you have to send your iBook in for service - what are your going to tell your professor? Apple ate my homework?

jxyama
Jul 29, 2003, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
If I were you, I wouldn't spend a dime on the iBook. I have one and it has been in for repairs twice now in the past 40 days. Not to mention the fact that the computer is BARELY 4 months old.

It is a display/ logic board problem that many iBook owners are experiencing...just check out apple's website under support/discussions/iBook/displays.

Did I mention that Apple won't even recognize this as an issue, eventhough hundreds if not thousands of consumers are complaining about it? They just send you a box, replace the logic board with the same faulty product and return it for the problem to occur again.

Save yourself the trouble, get a Sony Vaio.

ok, some obvious points:

1) i'm sorry you've had problem with your iBook, but your personal repair history does not represent the typical.

2) people who post their problems on the Apple's discussion board are usually the ones with problems. if people were happy with their purchase, they usually don't bother posting about it on Apple's discussion boards. so the fact there are many people on the board complaining of the problem doesn't mean the problem is wide-spread to the epidemic proportion, as you seem to imply.

3) "get a vaio"? where did this come from? as if vaio is immune from its own set of problems? (let's not even go into problems with Windows...)

back to topic: get one if you need one or really want one. i wouldn't make the decision on a potential (re: rumor) $200 price drop for a combodrive. you'd probably get enough joy out of using it now to more than offset the $200 price drop, not to mention agonizingly waiting for a rumor to come true, if it comes true at all, that is...

solvs
Jul 29, 2003, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
And I am not trying to turn this into a pc vs mac argument...I should never have brought up the vaio. I just really think you should carefullly consider a $1000+ investment.

But when your display goes out, and your midterm paper is on your hardrive - that you didn't back up because it has only been in their for an hour - and you have to send your iBook in for service - what are your going to tell your professor? Apple ate my homework?

And I don't want to hijack this thread either, but the same thing can happen on a Sony, or any PC. Again, I'm sorry about your experiance, but don't scare the author of this thread into thinking all iBooks, or all Apple products, do this. Just as many, if not more, PCs can have the same problems.

I went to the Knowledge Base like you said, looked up the problem, and did see a couple of complaints. Mostly by someone named Applehater. I still would not call this widespread. There were even a few people who had the problem happen and Apple fixed it. Would be nice if all computers just worked, but that just doesn't happen.

If you are having this problem, especially if you have AppleCare (which you can still buy as long as your 1 year warranty hasn't expired), take it to an authorized shop or Apple Store and complain a lot. You'll get a working iBook.

Whereas you can say you've had good experiances with Sony PCs and a bad experiance with Apple, I can say the opposite. But I still don't write off all Sony products. I've seen iBooks dropped from several feet up, while on, that continue to work with no problems.

Daveman Deluxe
Jul 29, 2003, 05:47 PM
I'm beginning to wonder if most iBook logic board problems don't have much to do with the logic board itself. Most people that have to replace a logic board have to replace the logic board several times. I think it's possible there is a faulty connection between the power supply and the logic board (which wouldn't get replaced if only the logic board gets replaced).

At any rate, there's a reason that you only hear about peoples' troubles with Macs on Apple's support boards, and it's been mentioned here before. People post on Apple's support boards when they have a problem, not when everything is going right. DUH. :p

In general, I've been happy with AppleCare. I've had problems with my battery twice (I use an iBook). The first time, Apple shipped out a new battery and had it to me within three days. The second time they sent it in and Apple replaced the entire power unit. The one problem that I had was the fact that nobody asked me for my password, which delayed the iBook's repair for about a week. I blame the reseller I went to for that because it didn't call me for five days after Apple first called for my password. Then the reseller never called to tell me it had come in, so I was out another week.

Next time I think I'll call Apple myself. Apple's held up their end of the bargain with my warranty very well. Can't say the same for the reseller. Oh, and I haven't had any problems since that last repair.

Edit: If you're sending in a logic board problem for the third time, Apple will give you a brand new iBook, but sometimes you have to ask for it, then escalate your complaint up a level or two (I think it should be automatic, but I'm not running the company).

ewgrego
Jul 29, 2003, 06:45 PM
Hey, thanks for the advice, folks! This gives me a great deal to think about.
Cheers

Powerbook G5
Jul 29, 2003, 07:21 PM
The iBook seems to be a solid product. I was personally surprised to hear of a big problem since I've known so many people at college carrying around their iBooks who swear by them as being the best thing they have ever owned. I can't blame them, either, they look damn sexy and they look like they are built to handle college life quite well. If you do have problems, as stated above, Applecare usually takes care of that. When I got my PowerBook G3 (Lombard), I got it when it *first* came out and there was a slight issue of a first batch having bad inverters that would make a high pitched whine that increased as your turned the screen brightness up. What did I do? I called Apple and a couple of days later I had a brand new Powerbook in my hands all free from problems and over 4 years later I am still using it as my primary computer without a *single* problem. To me, the solid iBook and safety net of Applecare seem to be a win-win combination

jefhatfield
Jul 30, 2003, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by ewgrego
Hey guys.
I'm looking at buying my first Mac, probably a 12" ibook/900Mhz/Combo Drive.

You guys probably get this at least once a week, but

iBook: buy now or wait till mid-September (Apple Expo Paris)?

It's not that I want to buy something faster than 900...In my mind the, the Combo drive is the crucial bit. it's just that I've seen threads saying that the entry-iBook (presumably at $999) will soon include the Combo drive and possibly some other stuff that the current entry model does not.

Thoughts, speculations?

the combo ibook can very possibly go to $999 usd sometime soon

but $1299, 900 mhz, and combo drive is not a bad deal

maraczc
Jul 30, 2003, 09:10 AM
I'm just posting to say that I had my iBook for almost three months now and have not had any technical problems.


While on the other hand I have had something I assume is very strange for Macs which is a full system error that requires a new install of Mac OS X (ie. loosing all your work/formatting).

dcoltonbrown
Jul 30, 2003, 11:12 AM
I went to the Knowledge Base like you said, looked up the problem, and did see a couple of complaints. Mostly by someone named Applehater. I still would not call this widespread. There were even a few people who had the problem happen and Apple fixed it. Would be nice if all computers just worked, but that just doesn't happen.

http://discussions.info.apple.com/WebX128@192.Ii3BaarRc3C.529339@.3bba678c

That is just one thread and I am only posting it so people won't think that there are only a "couple" of complaints (as you put it). Either you didn't dig deep enough (although you wouldn't have to dig that hard) or you are so partial that you refuse to see an issue (I don't mean to sound offensive). By the way...I would hope that all of the "problems" are fixed by apple.


As for the comments about the discussion board not being very representative of the iBook as a whole...

1. Not everyone who experiences a problem posts it on a discussion board.
2. While MOST iBook owners do not or have not yetexperienced this issue, a significant number of individuals have. Enough, in my opinion, to warrant (at the very least) an inquiry into the problem by apple.

My question is how often or how prevelant does a problem have to be before you people recognize it as a problem...or is Apple so perfect that there can never be a serious issue with any of their products?

Powerbook G5
Jul 30, 2003, 11:32 AM
I just love how quite a few of us have mentioned how reliable our or other's iBooks have been but since it doesn't fit with your pissed/unhappy experience, you insist on attacking us for enjoying our Apple purchases and try to insist that the iBook is a bad product. If it really is that bad, I don't see how the iBook has lasted this long and has had such a success. Granted, you may have been burnt, but that happens. The PowerBook I have once had a slightly irritating defect, too, but instead of whining in a threat and trying to convince everyone that the PowerBook sucks and no one should consider buying it, I just called Apple, let them assure me they understand my problem and they were more than happy to send me a replacement immediately and even threw in a spare battery in the process. Not everything will be perfect all the time, there will be defects. You just have to work with that and realize that not everyone is going to have the same experience. It sounds like Apple has been doing a pretty good job of replacing iBooks for owners with problems, so apparently they do realize there is something that is wrong with them that had to be addressed.

tazo
Jul 30, 2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
[B]

My question is how often are how prevelant does a problem have to be before you people recognize it as a problem...or is Apple so perfect that there can never be a serious issue with any of their products?

There will always be Apple zealots around here would call a mac in a paper bag revolutionary and taking the design world by storm, and even though their are serious flaws in the ibook, once you start comparing it to the track record of other personal computing companies, the ibook starts to look a bit nicer ;)

macphoria
Jul 30, 2003, 02:47 PM
Get it now. iBook was recently updated and probably will not see another update for a while.

Nermal
Jul 30, 2003, 08:30 PM
I just want to say that I've had my iBook for nearly 6 months and haven't had a single problem with it (except for software problems which were mostly my own fault). I ordered some new memory for it last week, I can't wait for it to arrive. 640 megs here I come!

Gus
Jul 31, 2003, 01:37 AM
While I will admit that I have heard of this logic board problem, and even know someone who it affected, I still say the iBook has a good track record. When you look at the number of iBooks sold in a quarter, compared to the number of problems reported, I think that the overwhelming numbers show a reliable product. No , and I mean NO computer company is perfect, but I think Apple tries to rectify problems that they see. Yes, your iBook apparently has a logic board proble, but they DID replace the board, didn't they? Was it quick? Did you have to hem and haw about it? I have no experience with any PC manufacturer, so I can't even comment on them, but I have owned Macs of some sort since 1989, and I have only had 2 hardware problems, both of which Apple had fixed and back to me inside a week.

If yo come in here completely ripping on Apple and their products, you should expect some negative resposes to your post. This is MACRumors, after all. Just let them slide off like water. ;)

Regards,
Gus

dcoltonbrown
Jul 31, 2003, 09:04 AM
So what exactly is the number of iBooks sold in a quarter compared to the number of problems reported?

And yeah, I got my computer back in 5 days...should that turn me into a hail apple steve jobs loving lemming? There is a problem with the iBook. It may not affect every iBook ever made or every iBook hasn't experienced the problems YET. Maybe only a small percentage of iBooks are and will be affected...who knows. But, as it has been agreed; there is a logic board problem with the iBook and Apple will not acknowledge it. Quite frankly...having to send in my computer everytime a faulty logic board fails is ridiculous...Apple should show a little integrety, admit to the problem and find a solution to resolve it.

I'm sorry, but why would you recommend a product - that you know has problems to anyone, Gus?

jxyama
Jul 31, 2003, 09:47 AM
i don't have any numbers, but obviously, apple is making money off of ibook. (otherwise, it wouldn't be sold.) this means some things:

1) the failure rate of ibook is not high enough so that the lost sales/reputation due to people getting faulty ones to affect the overall sales - or at least, such negative effect is in line with their expectations or industry standards.

2) the cost of "admitting" defect (via a recall or a massive repair campaign) is higher than providing "standard" repair services on a needed basis.

if you think above are reasonable, what would you do if you were in apple's shoes?

dcoltonbrown
Jul 31, 2003, 10:33 AM
Six people in this room acknowledge the issue, and you guys are obviously much bigger Apple fans than myself. So why don't you guys take a deep breath and think about it rationally. I will do the same. Here are a few statements that I hope we all can agree is true.

1. The iBook has Logic Board issues. Many of you readily admit this as seen below.

2. No one in this discussion knows how widespread OR limited the faulty logic board problem is...but most of us are aware of the problem.
a. Logically, if the statement is made that we are aware of the problem, then it can be assumed that the problem is not a small, unnoticed issue.

3. The cost of admitting a faulty logic board is higher than replacing the logic board with a REFURBISHED logic board.
a. Therefore, we can assume that Apple is putting profit above and beyond the customer and the product. (Personally, I would too if I had followers who thought I could do no wrong).

4. Apple has a great turn around time when it comes to repairing these logic boards.

5. The little apple that lights up on the iBook is pretty freakin' cool.

6. Steve Jobs is paid too much.


Abstract said: "The logic board problem is true..."

solvs said: "Some of them have been faulty, and some people have problem with support."

Davemen Deluxe said "I'm beginning to wonder if most iBook logic board problems don't have much to do with the logic board itself. Most people that have to replace a logic board have to replace the logic board several times. I think it's possible there is a faulty connection between the power supply and the logic board (which wouldn't get replaced if only the logic board gets replaced)."

Powerbook G5 said: "It sounds like Apple has been doing a pretty good job of replacing iBooks for owners with problems, so apparently they do realize there is something that is wrong with them that had to be addressed."

Tazo said: "...their are serious flaws in the ibook"

Gus said "...I will admit that I have heard of this logic board problem."

If you guys want to convince other people that this is a good product without any problems...that is your imperative. As for me, it is against my moral compass to peddle or recommend a product which I know is faulty to the point it has disrupted the lives of many, many Apple owners.

jxyama
Jul 31, 2003, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
a. Therefore, we can assume that Apple is putting profit above and beyond the customer and the product. (Personally, I would too if I had followers who thought I could do no wrong).


i'm no zealot, so i don't see a problem with this. it's simply a business being a business. they are putting their profit above the customer and the product as far as they believe they can effectively go to maximize the profit.

if you expected (as you may) or believed (as some mac zealots do) that apple is some kind of a charitable organization, willing to go heads over heels for the customers, then this might be a disappointing revelation.

when people speak admirably of apple, it's perhaps because they may have somewhat customer friendlier profit chasing policy. but they still have to chase profits - they can only go so far in trying to value customers over profits. call me cynical but i believe such is the world of corporations.

ibook apparently has some problems. pb 12" apparently also has some problems. i personally know of no computers that have no problems. i will not claim that ibook is perfect, i never did. i will not claim that apple is perfect, i never did. no one knows how widespread this problem is.

therefore, for the original poster - take these posts as you wish. be aware that ibook can have problems. be ready to deal with it, though i sure hope you won't have to, like many ibook purchasers don't. ultimately, you have to pull the trigger.

should you decide to purchase an ibook and have no problems - good for you, but that doesn't make posters here with ibook problem experience "whiners." conversely, if you purchase and ibook has problems with mobo, that doesn't make "defensive" posters like myself "liars" either.

good luck with your deliberation.

jefhatfield
Jul 31, 2003, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by jxyama
i'm no zealot, so i don't see a problem with this. it's simply a business being a business. they are putting their profit above the customer and the product as far as they believe they can effectively go to maximize the profit.

if you expected (as you may) or believed (as some mac zealots do) that apple is some kind of a charitable organization, willing to go heads over heels for the customers, then this might be a disappointing revelation.

when people speak admirably of apple, it's perhaps because they may have somewhat customer friendlier profit chasing policy. but they still have to chase profits - they can only go so far in trying to value customers over profits. call me cynical but i believe such is the world of corporations.

ibook apparently has some problems. pb 12" apparently also has some problems. i personally know of no computers that have no problems. i will not claim that ibook is perfect, i never did. i will not claim that apple is perfect, i never did. no one knows how widespread this problem is.

therefore, for the original poster - take these posts as you wish. be aware that ibook can have problems. be ready to deal with it, though i sure hope you won't have to, like many ibook purchasers don't. ultimately, you have to pull the trigger.

should you decide to purchase an ibook and have no problems - good for you, but that doesn't make posters here with ibook problem experience "whiners." conversely, if you purchase and ibook has problems with mobo, that doesn't make "defensive" posters like myself "liars" either.

good luck with your deliberation.

apple is a very unique case and probably one of the chief examples of what not to do in business

stupid management and business practices, well documented in many books (the last of which i read being , macintosh, the naked truth), lay out some interesting moves...but the loyalty of customers since the apple II have made the company resilient...yes, it's us who keep apple going because of our devotion...any other company would be toast by now

if just about any other CEO or leader had control of apple early enough besides steve jobs/steve wozniak, apple would be the microsoft of the industry, not that company in redmond...though the movie "pirates of silicon valley" shows how gates won the battle, there are historical inaccuracies in the plot...but steve wozniak otherwise concurs to the basic truth of the movie and characterizations

wozniak and jobs are visionaries...who later became businessmen...bill gates was a master businessman from the start, maybe not as interested in making a quality product as the main focus, but in capturing a wide open market

steve wozniak mentions that steve jobs has a problem listening to others sometimes

...not always the best trait in a fast moving industry like computers:p

Daveman Deluxe
Jul 31, 2003, 12:56 PM
Right on the money, jef. I recently saw it put best on a website discussing Apple's market share: "Apple puts into its products what Apple wants." Apple could be making serious gains in market share (although it will never seriously rival Microsoft) if they would do a few simple things such as focus groups, market studies, and the like. How long have we asked for a cheap headless box but haven't gotten it? How long did it take to get USB/FW ports on the front of our towers? The list goes on.

Steve Jobs is an excellent visionary but he needs to listen to us consumers more and give us what we want. I hope never to meet SJ because, from the sound of things, he's got ego up to here. You know why I think the switch TV ads failed? They're patronizing. "If I can't use a PC well, neither can you." In the consumer space, Apple should focus its ads on why the OS and the hardware are awesome without comparing to PCs--the product should stand on its own.

Apple makes a superior product, but there are holes in the product line that need to be filled for Apple to be successful. Getting off of the 7455 will be a good first step, but Apple still needs a cheap headless box and a better low-end prosumer option than the current G4 tower option.

Gus
Jul 31, 2003, 01:27 PM
1)Microsoft has Windows software that has serious security flaws.
2)Instead of replacing your software with a new, secure version, they just patch it many times.
3) The patches are free
4) The MS butterfly is way cool
5) Because Microsoft won't make software that isn't secure, they are lying and intolerant to their customers, so I will never recommend a Microsoft product.
6) Bill Gates has admitted that 5% of Windows users must restart more than twice a day.

I do not necessarliy believe any of the opinion above, and I do not HATE Micrososft. I actual use Word everyday of my life, and have grown to like it. I am merely making a point here. Sometimes when you are making a product, there happen to be a few bad apples, so to speak, but if the company makes a concerted effort to remedey said problem, you have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Apple has had problems with machines and the past, and have gine to great lengths to fix or replace parts and/or machines. The Powerbook 5300 fiasco is evidence of this. Also, the G4 fan/power supply issue. How many companied will send you NEW parts to replace a part that wasn't even defective, just annoying?

I do not like blanket "zealot" labelling comments, as I am not one. When Apple has problems, I bitch about them too. Yes, some iBook have had logic board problems. Yes, this is something that, if in sufficient numbers, Apple needs to recall and replace. No, the iBook is not a bad investment, and the pros will outweigh the cons.

Regards,
Gus

solvs
Aug 1, 2003, 12:35 AM
Wow, I can't believe we're still talking about this. Look, I'm not a zealot. When Apple does something not so good, I complain. I hated .Mac, and I was even accused of being a troll when I compained about the G4s (but c'mon, who didn't). But I'm not going to tell the original poster not to get the product he wants because you had a problem with yours.

I feel bad for you, I do. I've had bad experiances with products and companies that p*ssed me off, too. But you have to understand that not everyone has had the same experiance. Actually, as mentioned, I had a similar experiance with Sony. Not to mention the problems (plural) I've had with Windows. That doesn't mean all Sonys are terrible products.

(Windows, on the other hand...)

Some people have had good experiances with the iBooks. I don't have exact numbers, but seeing as how they sell pretty well, I doubt it's as widespread as you make it out to be. If you bought an iBook, or any laptop (or computer, or electronic device), it might not work. Sucks, but that's the way it is. If you can get a working one eventually, that's all that matters.

If none of them worked, they would do a recall, or they would go out business. You got a bad one, but that doesn't make it a bad product. Some people have had the same problem, some haven't. Many haven't. For every one that had a problem, I'm sure there's more than one that didn't. Even if they did have a problem, they got fixed, right?

I don't know how else to say this. Some of them might have had a problem, but it seems to be fixed. This is not a bad product, there were just a few bad ones. I know people who have them and are very happy. I would like to get one myself, but I'm too busy complaining about their shortcomings and considering a 12"PB if it's durable enough.

Just because your experiance is different than ours, that doesn't mean we're wrong.

Just because you had a good Sony, it doesn't mean they're all good.

Just because some people got some bad iBooks, doesn't mean they're all bad.

And don't call me a zealot...

CmdrLaForge
Aug 1, 2003, 02:03 AM
Hi,

I really recommend that you get your iBook now instead of waiting for a update that will come sometimes. I don't think that iBooks will see an update before Nov. Dez. if at all.

I have an iBook 900MHz Combo for 3 month now and I am quite happy with it. NO problems at all.

And about the problems with the iBooks:
I can tell you: every company selling similar products has problems.

It just takes some time to find the root cause, throw away defective parts or change the design. During that time you are still selling products that might have a problem.

There are just a lot of pieces in a complex product and every piece can cause a problem,( or the design) and there are many reasons for it. I don't want to go into details.

But I can tell you: EVERY COMPANY SELLING PRODUCTS HAS THIS PROBLEM WITH EVERY SINGLE PRODUCT !

And Apple makes no difference.

They can make a differnce how they handle the problem and there customers.

Cheers
CmdrLaForge

jefhatfield
Aug 1, 2003, 07:45 AM
one of the most reliable computer makers is sony

i used to belong to a C1 picturebook (sony laptop) site...the laptop is a good seller and highly regarded, but many of the posters talked about the problems they had and mostly to troubleshoot...and it was amazing how many things could go wrong with this machine

anything i hear about the ibook and its logic board, optical drive, feet, or easily scratchable surface pales in comparison to the issues i hear about the sony C1 picturebook or any PC for that matter

i used to hear problems about a messed up CRT on the emac but lately, no complaints on that issue so apple prolly got that fixed

if there is a serious issue with ibooks and logic boards, i am sure apple either is on it right now or they solved the issue

the last thing apple wants is to be fixing issues surrounding a faulty connector to the logic board and having a bad reputation hurt one of their best known products

dcoltonbrown
Aug 1, 2003, 12:32 PM
First of all, I never called anyone a zealot! That was a term used by someone who agrees with you. So, let's get that facts straight before anything else becomes skewed.


Second. Solvs, you said "I would like to get [an iBook] myself,..." I don't understand how you can even comment on how great the iBook is if you don't even own one. Yeah, maybe you have some friends that own iBooks...but why would they tell you that they made a bad decision when they purchased it? Makes me wonder...do you work for Apple? Do you get paid to only discuss the postitive aspects of a product you don't even own? Does Apple pay you to ignore the logic board problem or to attack people with an opinion contrary to that of you, Apple, or Steve Jobs?

Third, the logic board problem is NOT fixed. When a logic board fails, all Apple does is replace the logic board with a refurbished logic board and they hope the problem doesn't occur again. That's why there are people who have had to send their iBook in 5 - 7 times. I am on my third logic board...are you saying that this is acceptable?

I could go on forever...about how Apple LOST my computer...how they insist on sending me boxes (I have 6 sitting here in my office) with the wrong address despite my numerous attempts to get them to correct it...how the service depot saw it fit to explore files on my laptop...or simply how the logic board in the iBook is faulty. I know, it doesn't matter because Apple is the best of the best, right? I wonder why Apple can't garner a bigger market share considering they can do no wrong.

Remember the power adapter issue? It is taking a class action suit against Apple to get them to replace a fire/ safety hazard...so why do you think they would ever admit to a faulty logic board?

Using your logic:

Just because your experiance is different than mine, that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Just because some people got some good iBooks, doesn't mean they're all good

And don't call me a zealot...I never did

I have seen you guys push the iBook in other discussions and I have purposely avoided posting my comments. But, I do find it suspect, that you guys will admit that there is - at the very least - a trackable trend of faulty logic boards and still push the iBook as if it were the save all cure for the world. It is almost like your trying to sell your car...you mention everything you love about it but you fail to mention the oil leak or the hole in the radiator hose. I can understand selling YOUR car, but why would you push the iBook like that?

iPC
Aug 1, 2003, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by jxyama
i don't have any numbers, but obviously, apple is making money off of ibook. (otherwise, it wouldn't be sold.) this means some things:

1) the failure rate of ibook is not high enough so that the lost sales/reputation due to people getting faulty ones to affect the overall sales - or at least, such negative effect is in line with their expectations or industry standards.

2) the cost of "admitting" defect (via a recall or a massive repair campaign) is higher than providing "standard" repair services on a needed basis.

if you think above are reasonable, what would you do if you were in apple's shoes?
I would look at number of units sold, the overall market, what my sales goals are, the amount of cash in the bank, and then institute a recall. Apple can afford it financially. The iBook is their core item in the laptop segment. Apple can not afford a bad reputation right now. Get it fixed. Turn it into a event touting Apple's superior commitment to quality and what the customer wants.

--

Back on topic, buy it now. There will not be another update of the iBook until a few months after the next PowerBook update. The PowerBook update might be in September...

QCassidy352
Aug 1, 2003, 08:55 PM
I'm on my second ibook and I've had no logic board problems. The first a 12" ibook 600 and the second a 14" ibook 900. The 600 had some bad wiring that effected the display - apple repaired it and had it back to me in 2 business days.

one other thing: one early poster said to get an extra battery, adapter, and case. I have none of these things and don't see any need for them. But it all depends on how exactly you'll be using the ibook.

*people, please: stop the thread hijacking. this isn't about faulty logic boards, it's about when to buy an ibook. Hardware problems are a valid topic, but this is not the thread or the forum for them! If I were the original poster, I'd be very annoyed to have had my thread hijacked like this.

solvs
Aug 1, 2003, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by dcoltonbrown
Second. Solvs, you said "I would like to get [an iBook] myself,..." I don't understand how you can even comment on how great the iBook is if you don't even own one. Yeah, maybe you have some friends that own iBooks...but why would they tell you that they made a bad decision when they purchased it? Makes me wonder...do you work for Apple? Do you get paid to only discuss the postitive aspects of a product you don't even own? Does Apple pay you to ignore the logic board problem or to attack people with an opinion contrary to that of you, Apple, or Steve Jobs?

No, I don't work for Apple. I would like to, though. If only they did hire people to do this stuff. Why, do you work for Microsoft? I do have friends who have iBooks, and other Apple products. I, and several of my family and friends, also have other Apple products. My Mom is getting an iBook. You know, after the problem with her Sony, which you recommended. It's perfect for her, and the original poster.

They would tell me about problems they have had. I am the family computer geek, and get called whenever there's a problem. You know, like the Sony and my Stepmom's Dell. Which Sony and Dell couldn't seem to help them with. I resent the fact that you think that I have some kind-of ulterior motive to this. The iBook would be a good machine for the poster, and great for my Mom who hates her Sony and has to give back her schools G3 PowerBook.

For me, I don't know. I need more power, and would like more from it. Like the ability to add more Ram. And things like USB 2, FW 800, audio-in. Which is probably why I'll be getting a new PowerBook, or an iMac if I can get one cheap enough from the studio. Why, because I love Apple products. Because the Apple products I have owned have worked, and worked well. I also have owned many PC. Most of which suck.

Will I still own PCs? Yes, I have to for some of the stuff I do. Some actually haven't that bad. Will I buy another Apple product? Yes. Would I if none of them worked? Of course not. Some of them have problems. But so do Sonys, so do any computers. You may not have called me a zealot, but you did say something about lemmings and how we think Apple is perfect, which it is not. Neither is Sony.

My point being all iBooks are not as bad as yours.

I feel bad for you. You got a bad product and bad service. You should demand a new, working iBook. Or your money back. You should complain til you get satisfaction. You shouldn't have had to, but you do. Your lucky you got a working Sony. I have had good and bad luck with Sony products. I have had problems with Apple products. If I never used anything that had problems, I'd never use anything.

I bet ewgrego got the iBook, and there is a pretty good chance he is happy with it. Even if it isn't perfect.

But what is?

I don't know what else to say. You had a bad experiance, we haven't. You certainly have the right to your opinion, no one argues with that. But so do we. Calling us lemmings and alluding to the fact that our opinions don't matter because you think we feel Apple can do no wrong (you don't know us very well do you) is unacceptable. You may as well of called us zealots.

There is nothing more to say than NOT ALL IBOOKS ARE BAD. Most of them are actually pretty good. As are Sonys. Welcome to MacRumors. You know, where we talk about Macs. Good and bad. If you want to complain, go to one of the many PowerBook threads. OS X is great, but we all think Motorola sucks. Lemmings indeed.

Windows still sucks, though.

-

Written from a Windows 2000 HP PC. Can't wait to get back to the Mac.