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MacRumors
Aug 2, 2007, 03:20 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Microsoft announced (http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/08/02/ap3979609.html) that Office 2008 for the Mac will be delayed until January of 2008.

Despite its name, the newest version of Microsoft Office was due for the Mac (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/09/microsoft-announces-mac-office-2008/) in "the second half of 2007." Lingering bugs were cited as the reason for the delay:
"It really is just a quality issue across the board," Craig Eisler, general manager of Microsoft's Macintosh business unit, said in an interview Wednesday.
Other factors (http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/08/01/msftoffice/index.php) blamed for the delay included the switch to Intel combined with a change in Office file formats. "It was no one thing. "This release was harder than most just because of all those things happening at once."

As a result, the launch of Office 2008 is expected at Macworld Expo 2008 in San Francisco.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/02/microsoft-office-2008-delayed-until-january-2008/)



X5-452
Aug 2, 2007, 03:22 AM
bill gates doesn't care about mac people.

TuffLuffJimmy
Aug 2, 2007, 03:23 AM
this is one of the people who said "apple knows best" when leopard was delayed.

powermac_daddy
Aug 2, 2007, 03:24 AM
wait and then download it

aLoC
Aug 2, 2007, 03:25 AM
That's not too long to wait. I just hope that when's it's released it will be Leopard-ready. I would hate to have waited so long for it to be 10.4 only.

a456
Aug 2, 2007, 03:26 AM
My hope is that this is motivated by the need for full Visual Basic functionality making the whole thing less of a dead duck.

MacRumorUser
Aug 2, 2007, 03:27 AM
bill gates doesn't care about mac people.

A rather asenine comment if there ever was one. :rolleyes:


iLife, iWork, Leopard! Adobe CS3! All were delayed from their original exepected release dates. These things happen.

astranovus
Aug 2, 2007, 03:29 AM
This is the end of the wait for me.

I'm getting so sick of my sluggish Office 2004.

I've been playing around with Open Office under X11 and it's more than usable.

By January 2008, Open Office Aqua, which runs natively under Tiger should be ready, so I reckon that this is the way forward.

Microsoft obviously doesn't care about Mac anymore. This and the shocking MSN client without cam support just stinks.

iris_failsafe
Aug 2, 2007, 03:34 AM
probably for the best I guess. I hope we get a full Leopard version

MacRumorUser
Aug 2, 2007, 03:34 AM
By January 2008, Open Office Aqua, which runs natively under Tiger should be ready, so I reckon that this is the way forward.

Well since Open Office have been promising a native aqua version for what must be over a year at this stage (since neooffice already supply one) then I wouldn't hold your breath for them to hit their release schedule either.

aLoC
Aug 2, 2007, 03:36 AM
Microsoft obviously doesn't care about Mac anymore.

I think they do care. According to the Article 20% of the money spent on Office in the US is the Mac version, up from 4% in 2001. They are taking longer because they're getting used to Universal Binaries. Messenger and Remote Desktop are both UB now, but Office is the big fish. I still want them to bring Media Player back.

onewiseman
Aug 2, 2007, 03:37 AM
Is is true that Office 2008 was coded entirely in Cocoa?

AppleMatt389
Aug 2, 2007, 03:37 AM
this microsoft 2008 better be worth it. anything will be a nice update from 2004 but the whole ribbon would have been nice. we'll see what happens. august 7 looks much more promising.;)

cargoplex
Aug 2, 2007, 03:41 AM
bill gates doesn't care about mac people.

Don't worry X5-452, I got the Kanye reference. haha :cool:

br-
Aug 2, 2007, 03:45 AM
bill gates doesn't care about mac people.

Haha. Love the Kanye reference.

astranovus
Aug 2, 2007, 03:52 AM
Well since Open Office have been promising a native aqua version for what must be over a year at this stage (since neooffice already supply one) then I wouldn't hold your breath for them to hit their release schedule either.

very true, but considering that open office is free, i am more than willing to wait a bit longer,

it's embarrassing that OO already offers office 2007 support, whilst Office 2004 doesn't,

i know there are beta converters, but it's tedious if they aren't built into the office suite

neooffice is a viable alternative, but it's a bit slow, as it relies quite heavily on java stuff

japanime
Aug 2, 2007, 03:54 AM
Ever since I switched to an Intel Mac, I've been using NeoOffice -- and have been plenty happy with it. In fact, I find it just as pleasant to use as Office for Mac (which I used when I was still on a PowerPC Mac).

This is a serious question for those of you out there who might know better than me: Is there a reason I shouldn't be satisfied with NeoOffice and will want to buy Office 2008 when it comes out?

Cloudsurfer
Aug 2, 2007, 03:56 AM
well what can I say. Microsoft at its best, Mac BU or not. They've had four years to beef this one up

Frisco
Aug 2, 2007, 04:02 AM
well what can I say. Microsoft at its best, Mac BU or not. They've had four years to beef this one up

Well really only 2 years since Apple announced their switch to Intel June 2005. That really changed everything for Mac Office Development.

Shagrat
Aug 2, 2007, 04:04 AM
My hope is that this is motivated by the need for full Visual Basic functionality making the whole thing less of a dead duck.

As I understand it MS have already ruled out VB being ported to Intel Macs, thus causing some grief for all you Mac Office macro users.

I heard that some were suggesting that Real Basic could be modded to fulfil the role that VB has played.

Of course this was a while back, and things might have changed, but i thought that VB was a dead duck for Office 2008 for Mac.

sas76
Aug 2, 2007, 04:08 AM
I have never heard of "Open Office Aqua" or "NeoOffice". ( I am searching a soon as I finish this post ).

What are the other options to office ? pro's / con's

Cheers
ss

Genghis Khan
Aug 2, 2007, 04:09 AM
i just hope it loads quicker :(

vendettabass
Aug 2, 2007, 04:11 AM
a kick in the crotch for us students with our first semester coming up!

thejadedmonkey
Aug 2, 2007, 04:13 AM
2008 can't come fast enough, I feel like by january I'll have a whole new computer all over again! New OS, new iLife, new Office suite.. really, what's left?

garethh
Aug 2, 2007, 04:15 AM
I do hope they use the time to make Entourage fully Exchange compliant. My uni email is being transferred to Exchange very soon and if I have to use Entourage, I hope it works more reliably than other people I know here have found it.

Actually, I wish Apple made Mail and iCal fully Exchange compliant. That would be much better.

Royale w/cheese
Aug 2, 2007, 04:18 AM
Well since Open Office have been promising a native aqua version for what must be over a year at this stage (since neooffice already supply one) then I wouldn't hold your breath for them to hit their release schedule either.

I thought the have been promising an aqua version for WELL over a year. :rolleyes:

pknz
Aug 2, 2007, 04:32 AM
Hmmm wheres that person from the Microsoft Mac BU that is on these boards, I know your out there somewhere, these evils are for you: :mad:

Markleshark
Aug 2, 2007, 04:38 AM
Shame. We'll get it eventually though I guess.

motulist
Aug 2, 2007, 04:43 AM
bill gates doesn't care about mac people.

Last I heard, there were only 2 products that actually make a profit for MS - MS Windows and MS office. All their other products either lose money or mostly break even (IIRC). So MS is NOT gonna jeopardize one of its only 2 products that actually makes money by letting even a minor segment of it go un-updated. More than that, if MS products aren't cross-compatible then they lose a lot of the only thing that keeps them in business - their monopoly.

Hairball
Aug 2, 2007, 04:44 AM
Hopefully the wait is in part due to an updated version of iWork soon being released.

DHUK
Aug 2, 2007, 04:47 AM
I'm just hoping the upcoming iWork upgrade may be enough for me to pass on MS Office when I finally buy a Mac in August. I just need a decent word processor and occasional-use spreadsheet which is compatible with Excel. I use MS Office in the work place, but rarely use it for 'fun stuff' at home.

Shotglass
Aug 2, 2007, 04:51 AM
bill gates doesn't care about mac people.
:D good one.

MacQuest
Aug 2, 2007, 05:02 AM
I have never heard of "Open Office Aqua" or "NeoOffice". ( I am searching a soon as I finish this post ).

What are the other options to office ? pro's / con's

Cheers
ss

The biggest "pro" is that you don't support miCrapsoft, and instead support Open Source.

The biggest "con" is miCrapsoft itself.

Morky
Aug 2, 2007, 05:04 AM
I think Craig has heard the feedback loud and clear about Exchange support for Entourage being the #1 request and is working to do something about it. I read his blog and he seems to understand.

Eraserhead
Aug 2, 2007, 05:05 AM
Last I heard, there were only 2 products that actually make a profit for MS - MS Windows and MS office. All their other products either lose money or mostly break even (IIRC).

Their server stuff makes money too. Quite a lot in fact.

samh004
Aug 2, 2007, 05:06 AM
Admittedly I know nothing about software development, and Apple is yet to release their (expected) iLife and iWork updates, but this does seem a little slack on M$ part. Perhaps they need to hire some more personnel for mac development.

capoeirista
Aug 2, 2007, 05:14 AM
I can't wait for the universal binary. Word '04 makes the fans on my MB scream like you wouldn't believe. And it's so SLOW! Anything doc containing images and it's beach ball of death while i scroll around :( . I am seriously considering moving to oo.

BKKbill
Aug 2, 2007, 05:17 AM
[QUOTE=MacRumorUser;3991586]A rather asenine comment if there ever was one. :rolleyes:


Did you mean asinine as in devoid of intelligence?:rolleyes::rolleyes:

J Radical
Aug 2, 2007, 05:18 AM
People shouldn't be so harsh on MS. Office is a HUGE app that is being ported to a different platform with a new processor.

The quality of Office 2004 is a testimony to their dedication to the mac, it is probably better than its windows counterpart: 2003. It should also be noted that MS's dev process involves getting feedback from users, the developers actually blog! Compared to Apple's CIA secrecy it is a breath of fresh air.

So give them a break! Apple needs office more than office needs apple! If your stuck for a productivity suite check out open office/neo office. Whenever they get round to building a native version of this open source app MS will have a good deal of competition.

DHagan4755
Aug 2, 2007, 05:29 AM
Apple announced its transition to Intel processors in June 2005. Microsoft has had over two years to get a universal binary of its suite converted over to the Intel architecture. Every other major application on the Mac has been converted to a UB, except Microsoft. It's embarrassing for the world's largest software developer to be last to this game.

Honestly, I feel that this proves just how lethargic and asleep at the switch Microsoft is right now. Vista's been a disappointment, even though it's sold well only because people buying new computers are forced to get it. Microsoft Office 2004 has a load a problems. One that especially annoys me as a network administrator is the way it behaves with network home directories.

Come January it better be ready and better work pretty damn good.

brygruver
Aug 2, 2007, 05:39 AM
From what I understand Office is still the best selling piece of software for the Mac and that makes me sick.

I recently trashed my Office 04. It was dog slow compared to the rest of my apps. If Microsoft can't update their software to a Universal Binary then they definitely don't deserve my money for 2008. Yes, I understand that Adobe did the same for Photoshop, etc, but they had a lot more to convert / rewrite. Besides, it's hard to replace the entire Adobe Creative Suite. I now use either textedit, Pages, or Google Documents to open my word files and I use Google Spreadsheets to open the occasional excel file. I can't tell you when the last time I had to use a spreadsheet. There are sooooooo many other pieces of specialized math/calculating/accounting software out there, spreadsheets are obsolete. The only time I have to open an excel file is when someone creates a document in a spreadsheet because they don't know any better.

Use Keynote instead of Powerpoint and the only application you then have to replace is entourage, which I've never used.

Let's get Pages and Keynote on the Windows Platform and give MS Office a run for it's money.

nsbio
Aug 2, 2007, 05:46 AM
"It really is just a quality issue across the board,"

This should be placed on their start page today and engraved on their tombstone a few years down the road.

Voltayre
Aug 2, 2007, 05:47 AM
Re: NeoOffice/OpenOffice... the word processor is fine, but their spreadsheets are dodgy and the less said about the slideshow/presentation package the better. Fortunately of course we do have Keynote, which is lovely (and I'm speaking as someone who lived and worked for years with PowerPoint and actually quite likes it).

Re: Office 2008... I'd be rather less brassed off about yet another trademark delay if Microsoft were able to release a patch like they did for Office 2000/XP/2003 on Windows that gave Office 2004 the ability to open docx/xlsx/pptx files. Their "drag-and-drop" utility is a) awkward to use and b ) has never worked successfully for me on any file I've tried it with.

cleanup
Aug 2, 2007, 05:52 AM
Bad news for college students, then!

*Downloads NeoOffice to accompany my tortoise-speed copy of Microsoft Office 2004*

Father Jack
Aug 2, 2007, 05:58 AM
Personally I don't care how long the delay is, I think the new U.I. is absolutely ***** ... :) (that's assuming it is the same as Office 2007 for the PC) Yuuuuk.

PlaceofDis
Aug 2, 2007, 06:03 AM
perhaps this means i'tll be bug free upon release...
oh wait, never mind.

its a shame that its taking them so long. i mean Adobe was able to release their new package sooner! and they had a LOT more to do imo.

Voltayre
Aug 2, 2007, 06:09 AM
Personally I don't care how long the delay is, I think the new U.I. is absolutely ***** ... :) (that's assuming it is the same as Office 2007 for the PC) Yuuuuk.

It isn't:

http://media.arstechnica.com/journals/apple.media/mw07_ms01.jpg

http://tech.cybernetnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/office2008.jpg

It's like a cross between Office 2007 on Windows and Office 2004 on Mac. Personally I quite like the Office 2007 ribbon interface, anyway... it makes editing certain types of document much quicker and cleaner, and it's much easier for Office newbies to get to grips with than the classic Office plethora of menus and hidden options buried deep within arcane control panels.

offwidafairies
Aug 2, 2007, 06:09 AM
office 4 windows is so much easier to use

Father Jack
Aug 2, 2007, 06:15 AM
It isn't:

http://media.arstechnica.com/journals/apple.media/mw07_ms01.jpg

http://tech.cybernetnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/office2008.jpg

It's like a cross between Office 2007 on Windows and Office 2004 on Mac. Personally I quite like the Office 2007 ribbon interface, anyway... it makes editing certain types of document much quicker and cleaner, and it's much easier for Office newbies to get to grips with than the classic Office plethora of menus and hidden options buried deep within arcane control panels.
I'm glad to hear that .... :)

I installed Office 2007 running through parallels on my Mac Mini just to see what it was like ...... Sorry I think the new user interface is grim.

Gav
Aug 2, 2007, 06:17 AM
Oh noes!! Office 2008 isn't going to be released until... 2008?

Voltayre
Aug 2, 2007, 06:21 AM
I installed Office 2007 running through parallels on my Mac Mini just to see what it was like ...... Sorry I think the new user interface is grim.

It does take some getting used to. I found the easiest way was to try to forget everything I knew about Office already and start again from scratch, as if I was coming to Office anew... I also forced myself to use it and nothing else for a couple of weeks until I got comfortable with it. It is a big change interface-wise, but once I got past that I grew to like it (and I don't say that about Microsoft products lightly ;)). In fact now when I go back to Office 2003 on Windows I find it quite clunky and unnecessarily menu-based in comparison.

twoodcc
Aug 2, 2007, 06:23 AM
dang, and i was really looking forward to this. but i'm really not surprised though

jellomizer
Aug 2, 2007, 06:27 AM
From what I understand Office is still the best selling piece of software for the Mac and that makes me sick.

I recently trashed my Office 04. It was dog slow compared to the rest of my apps. If Microsoft can't update their software to a Universal Binary then they definitely don't deserve my money for 2008. Yes, I understand that Adobe did the same for Photoshop, etc, but they had a lot more to convert / rewrite. Besides, it's hard to replace the entire Adobe Creative Suite. I now use either textedit, Pages, or Google Documents to open my word files and I use Google Spreadsheets to open the occasional excel file. I can't tell you when the last time I had to use a spreadsheet. There are sooooooo many other pieces of specialized math/calculating/accounting software out there, spreadsheets are obsolete. The only time I have to open an excel file is when someone creates a document in a spreadsheet because they don't know any better.

Use Keynote instead of Powerpoint and the only application you then have to replace is entourage, which I've never used.

Let's get Pages and Keynote on the Windows Platform and give MS Office a run for it's money.

I wasn't aware that you are keen on what is in the source for Office for the Mac and CS3. But depending on how their old version of Office was made the Intel migration might have been more difficult. Who knows why it is late, Perhaps they made office in an internal language where Microsoft won't release the compilers for so with the switch to Intel they needed to remake the compilers, then they can remake office. Or they use to have their own compilers then they needed to learn X-Code (Which is not as as simple as people want you to believe)... There are a lot of factors involved that could cause delays in migration especially if they were working on a PPC version of office 2008 before the Intel Announcement so they needed to go back and redo some stuff.

I am glad you are able to successfully free yourself from using MS Products good for you. But for other people it is not as simple as using alternatives.

While Keynote is a great product that really competes well with Powerpoint the issue is for a lot of people when they make a presentation they are normally at an office where there is a system hooked up to a projector and that system is usually a windows system with powerpoint... You can convert the keynote to powerpoint but you may loose features that you put in Keynote causing your presentation to not go as well as you expected, if you used office powerpoint you know what features are available and use them so your presentation goes completely as expected.

Textedit/Pages/Google Documents are all fine but a lot of people can send you rather in-depth word files some of them are forms you need to fill out and if you are not using word your formatting may get really screwed up and depending who you are sending the form they may just put the reject stamp on it because they didn't see the answers where they expect it...

Same problem with Sharing Excel Files... Yea there is so much math software but none as flexible as Excel. Excel is more then just math it is a spreadsheet it is good for non-programmers to make quick programs (But god help them if they need to use them in a production environment). I use excel daily at work just to prototype code to see if the math works out or if I am analyzing data or I need to report on my analysis of the Data Excel works great. Sure there are so many specialized applications and I agree they should use them over excel for a lot of the cases. But there comes a time that you are spending tones of money finding special apps where excel saves money (It is more then just the cost of buying the apps it is the full evaluation process)

Father Jack
Aug 2, 2007, 06:28 AM
It does take some getting used to. I found the easiest way was to try to forget everything I knew about Office already and start again from scratch, as if I was coming to Office anew... I also forced myself to use it and nothing else for a couple of weeks until I got comfortable with it. It is a big change interface-wise, but once I got past that I grew to like it (and I don't say that about Microsoft products lightly ;)). In fact now when I go back to Office 2003 on Windows I find it quite clunky and unnecessarily menu-based in comparison.
I really don't like it .... but I know when it does become available, no doubt I will get it and get used to it as well ... whether I grow to love it, remains to be seen ... :o

Eraserhead
Aug 2, 2007, 06:32 AM
While Keynote is a great product that really competes well with Powerpoint the issue is for a lot of people when they make a presentation they are normally at an office where there is a system hooked up to a projector and that system is usually a windows system with powerpoint... You can convert the keynote to powerpoint but you may loose features that you put in Keynote causing your presentation to not go as well as you expected, if you used office powerpoint you know what features are available and use them so your presentation goes completely as expected.

Then you need to make your presentation on a PC, I have seen strange issues of powerpoint screwing up with simple user interface elements from PC to Mac powerpoint so it isn't perfect.

The only way to guarantee your presentation will work is to bring your own laptop/cables, Macs can export to DVI, VGA or S-Video so should be able to work with any projector and then you can use Keynote.

If you have an Intel laptop you can also use your Apple Remote ;).

Schtumple
Aug 2, 2007, 06:38 AM
"It really is just a quality issue across the board,"

Have they not taken a look at XP?!

There doesn't seem to be any quality control at M$

This is typical M$, give themselves plenty of time to release, but still drop the ball anyway...

The switch to intel is a really cr*p excuse tbh...

Yes we'd like to blame something that nearly every other company has managed to do way before us...

cwedl
Aug 2, 2007, 06:42 AM
At least we can compare it with iwork 08, I'd probably go with iwork 08.

sdds
Aug 2, 2007, 06:45 AM
...just a quality issue...

So that's Microsoft's official stance on quality? It's a "just" criteria? Well you have to give them credit that they at least publicly admit this.

And: One of the two reasons made responsible is home made. New office format? Guess the Office 2007/Win team just pulled that one out of their a**es at the last minute before Office 07 was released...

kwmacforum
Aug 2, 2007, 06:53 AM
There have been rumours that Apple agreed to hold back on releasing an update to iWork until Office 2008 appeared. So could the Office 2008 delay be because Apple are about to release an update to iWork next week? Another factor that supports Microsoft’s delay being political is its decision to bundle MS Works with Vista.

iWork 08 is said to be a major update that will include a spreadsheet. Its word processor - Pages - is also supposed to have vastly improved. If this is true and if Pages can be made load a document from a local drive as fast as Safari loads a page from a site 8000 miles away; and if Pages can save documents in Office Open XML file format - then Microsoft's concern will be justified.

KW

vandlism
Aug 2, 2007, 06:59 AM
Well I can't say I'm terribly surprised, though I am disappointed. I say take the time and don't rush the suite out of the door, make it compatible and stable. I'm sure the intel switch set them back as well as having a change in command. Leopard was delayed by four months, Office has been set back by a few too. Who knows what they have to deal with, put up with. I'm sure they're a great team that probably has to put up with a lot, considering they use Macs in the company that makes Windows.

My only real question is this, once it's released, is it going to be a worthwhile upgrade? I know people ask this all the time when considering upgrades to software. But seriously, Office is becoming bloated and not really adding any value to itself. The ribbon, I feel, is awful. I remember reading they tried to bring it to the mac, but the UI was so confusing to users that they had to stop. If I'm writing a paper, I don't need a billion little buttons telling me where to click and flash when a menu will do fine. I enjoy my screen space, and Microsoft's approach seems to be to fill up as much of the screen with buttons as possible. How is that easier? Taking simple text menus and turning them into bloated categories of buttons. Is anyone else seeing that screenshot of PowerPoint? The slide is less than a quarter of the screen size, how is that helpful, how do you successfully edit that?

belovedmonster
Aug 2, 2007, 07:00 AM
Well since Open Office have been promising a native aqua version for what must be over a year at this stage (since neooffice already supply one) then I wouldn't hold your breath for them to hit their release schedule either.

Wrong. In the last few months OOo set up a team to tackle this job. Its well on its way to becoming a reality now.

goosnarrggh
Aug 2, 2007, 07:02 AM
Oh noes!! Office 2008 isn't going to be released until... 2008?

I appreciate the irony. But actually there is some precedent for Microsoft releasing Year N+1 software in Year N.

Office 97 was released in 1996.
Office 2000 was released in 1999
Office XP (Containing applications labelled "2002") was released in 2001.

Mind you, in those cases, MS didn't actually attach permanent names to their upcoming products until they actually had firm, immovable release dates in mind. So it's possible that they wanted to release Office 97 as Office 96, but they weren't sure whether it'd be ready in time, so they defensively named it Office 97 instead.

I will need a very compelling reason to choose iWork 2008 over any of the alternatives the next time an upgrade impulse overtakes me. I actually bought iWork '06 with my newest Mac, and ended up dreading it so much that I decided to download OpenOffice X11 instead. Happy OOo user ever since.

On my previous (PPC) Mac, I'm still perfectly comfortable with Office 2004. But as a matter of principle, I'm keeping PPC software off my Intel Mac.

sunfast
Aug 2, 2007, 07:03 AM
Still - at least it's coming out in the year the package is dated with (i.e. 2008).

spydr
Aug 2, 2007, 07:07 AM
i just hope it loads quicker :(

Bah... it will have some superfluous gui and loading time will end up not being significantly less than the current ones. :rolleyes:

I just wish iwork'08 will have some excel like app in it - so I can finally be totally weaned off Office. I do use word's track changes and every now and then - but that shouldn't justify a bloated, sluggish, lethargy of an application suite on my system.

ortuno2k
Aug 2, 2007, 07:07 AM
It doesn't surprise me that it's late, but better late than never.

BenRoethig
Aug 2, 2007, 07:13 AM
Use Keynote instead of Powerpoint and the only application you then have to replace is entourage, which I've never used.

Let's get Pages and Keynote on the Windows Platform and give MS Office a run for it's money.

They have to add a spreadsheet app and get Pages to a point where it's actually usable as a word processor first.

xUKHCx
Aug 2, 2007, 07:15 AM
There goes the return to school sales for Office 08. I was hoping for an updated version for my final year at uni but i guess i will have to stick with my current setup of Office 07 running through parallels off my bootcamp partition.

brygruver
Aug 2, 2007, 07:20 AM
I wasn't aware that you are keen on what is in the source for Office for the Mac and CS3. But depending on how their old version of Office was made the Intel migration might have been more difficult. Who knows why it is late, Perhaps they made office in an internal language where Microsoft won't release the compilers for so with the switch to Intel they needed to remake the compilers, then they can remake office. Or they use to have their own compilers then they needed to learn X-Code (Which is not as as simple as people want you to believe)... There are a lot of factors involved that could cause delays in migration especially if they were working on a PPC version of office 2008 before the Intel Announcement so they needed to go back and redo some stuff.

I am glad you are able to successfully free yourself from using MS Products good for you. But for other people it is not as simple as using alternatives.

While Keynote is a great product that really competes well with Powerpoint the issue is for a lot of people when they make a presentation they are normally at an office where there is a system hooked up to a projector and that system is usually a windows system with powerpoint... You can convert the keynote to powerpoint but you may loose features that you put in Keynote causing your presentation to not go as well as you expected, if you used office powerpoint you know what features are available and use them so your presentation goes completely as expected.

Textedit/Pages/Google Documents are all fine but a lot of people can send you rather in-depth word files some of them are forms you need to fill out and if you are not using word your formatting may get really screwed up and depending who you are sending the form they may just put the reject stamp on it because they didn't see the answers where they expect it...

Same problem with Sharing Excel Files... Yea there is so much math software but none as flexible as Excel. Excel is more then just math it is a spreadsheet it is good for non-programmers to make quick programs (But god help them if they need to use them in a production environment). I use excel daily at work just to prototype code to see if the math works out or if I am analyzing data or I need to report on my analysis of the Data Excel works great. Sure there are so many specialized applications and I agree they should use them over excel for a lot of the cases. But there comes a time that you are spending tones of money finding special apps where excel saves money (It is more then just the cost of buying the apps it is the full evaluation process)

Sorry I didn't verify my credentials. At my job, I write Cocoa Applications in Objective C using Interface Builder and Xcode. If CS3 and Office are Cocoa Applications, porting them from PPC to Universal should be a fairly simple task. I'm not saying that it wouldn't take time, but if the applications were written correctly in the first place, it should be an easy task. From what I can tell, Office is a Cocoa application as where Adobe's products seem to still use some of the Carbon API. It's 2007....OS X and Cocoa have been around since 2000......that's plenty of time......then again this is Adobe and Microsoft we are talking about.

notjustjay
Aug 2, 2007, 07:43 AM
So that's Microsoft's official stance on quality? It's a "just" criteria? Well you have to give them credit that they at least publicly admit this.

And: One of the two reasons made responsible is home made. New office format? Guess the Office 2007/Win team just pulled that one out of their a**es at the last minute before Office 07 was released...

Maybe this is my excuse to start goofing off at work. I'll stop shaving, dress in rags, arrive late, skip days, miss deadlines, and surf Facebook all day. At my next performance review I'll just say "well, it's just a quality issue across the board".

As for the file format, I'm glad that someone called them on it. That's the first thing I noticed when I read the story. A file format change? Another one? What's the matter, Microsoft, are too many people trying to be compatible? Feeling threatened? Got to break that compatibility to artificially keep ahead?

ATG
Aug 2, 2007, 07:43 AM
This is a serious question for those of you out there who might know better than me: Is there a reason I shouldn't be satisfied with NeoOffice and will want to buy Office 2008 when it comes out?
It's slow, it hardly ever gets updated, and worst of all, it's java.

superleccy
Aug 2, 2007, 07:45 AM
Am I the only one here that thinks that the current version of MS Office runs just fine under Rosetta?

SL

EagerDragon
Aug 2, 2007, 07:45 AM
I have no plans to buy the office suite anymore, I expect iWork, openoffice, neooffice and others to replace the office needs.

Makes no difference to me
:D

EagerDragon
Aug 2, 2007, 07:47 AM
It's slow, it hardly ever gets updated, and worst of all, it's java.

There is an ongoing project to get OpenOffice carbonized, soon there will be no need for NeoOffice and OpenOffice gets a lot of attention.

overcast
Aug 2, 2007, 07:47 AM
a kick in the crotch for us students with our first semester coming up!
Yeh it's going to be really tough to get by school without all of those new features in Office 2008. A basic word processor is more than plenty.

MacinDoc
Aug 2, 2007, 07:47 AM
So, Microsoft is having "a quality issue across the board" - should we be surprised?

Photek
Aug 2, 2007, 07:48 AM
NeoOffice & OpenOffice

netdog
Aug 2, 2007, 07:48 AM
bill gates doesn't care about mac people.

I'd be more careful about saying things like that :eek:

http://www.jimkukral.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/bill-gates-borg.gif

mickeymikey
Aug 2, 2007, 07:49 AM
I don't mind the wait so long as Entourage has full Exchange support inline with Outlook.

bigandy
Aug 2, 2007, 07:49 AM
There really wasn't much surprise in that announcement.

However, the MacBU do a good job with Office - it's usually a solid, reliable suite.

I have canned all Microsoft products on MacOS completely. I use Adium instead of MSN, and OpenOffice (OOo) Aqua instead of MS Office.

OOo's Aqua port is an improvement on NeoOffice, but I hope NeoOffice continue using the Aqua port instead of a Java base, as I like the look of Neo over OOo.

The only reason I keep MS Office on my Boot Camp partition is that sometimes both NeoOffice and OpenOffice have a habit of bloating a file saved as a .doc way out of proportion.

aperture01
Aug 2, 2007, 07:58 AM
bill gates doesn't care about mac people.

this is so ridiculously funny that I think I'd like it on a shirt...

nsbio
Aug 2, 2007, 08:00 AM
Am I the only one here that thinks that the current version of MS Office runs just fine under Rosetta?

SL

Not PowerPoint. Try to do an actual presentation to an audience (not just opening a file at home). Lags while switching slides are not OK but still tolerable; the worst part comes when the presentation is over and a question from the audience is addressed such that a particular slide needs to be quickly accessed (happens every time). You go to the slide sorter view to pick the slide and.... and.... and.... and.... the pause is embarrassing, especially that this same operation is an order of magnitude faster on a cheap Dell laptop.

akac
Aug 2, 2007, 08:01 AM
Sorry I didn't verify my credentials. At my job, I write Cocoa Applications in Objective C using Interface Builder and Xcode. If CS3 and Office are Cocoa Applications, porting them from PPC to Universal should be a fairly simple task. I'm not saying that it wouldn't take time, but if the applications were written correctly in the first place, it should be an easy task. From what I can tell, Office is a Cocoa application as where Adobe's products seem to still use some of the Carbon API. It's 2007....OS X and Cocoa have been around since 2000......that's plenty of time......then again this is Adobe and Microsoft we are talking about.

Actually neither use Cocoa much at all. And there is little reason for them to do so. The issue wasn't Carbon or Cocoa - its XCode vs CodeWarrior. Just vastly different environments with different compilers and so on. Personally, I think their issues are with the 2007 file format.

addicted44
Aug 2, 2007, 08:03 AM
It isn't:

It's like a cross between Office 2007 on Windows and Office 2004 on Mac. Personally I quite like the Office 2007 ribbon interface, anyway... it makes editing certain types of document much quicker and cleaner, and it's much easier for Office newbies to get to grips with than the classic Office plethora of menus and hidden options buried deep within arcane control panels.

I started off really liking the ribbon interface. However, when I started doing some heavy spreadsheeting, it got extremely annoying switching between the 2 tabs that i use most often. For most people this should not be an issue, but I dont think the new interface is very suitable for heavy users of Office.

I cant really speak about the mac version, but I dislike the iWork style Inspector. Not a big fan of tabs (same issue as the ribbon!). iWork though digs itself out of this hole by allowing multiple inspectors, which i think works great. Hopefullfy Office '08 will do the same.

On another note, does anyone know if there is any way to read VBA in 08, thru a plugin or something?

SWC
Aug 2, 2007, 08:05 AM
There have been rumours that Apple agreed to hold back on releasing an update to iWork until Office 2008 appeared. So could the Office 2008 delay be because Apple are about to release an update to iWork next week? Another factor that supports Microsoft’s delay being political is its decision to bundle MS Works with Vista.

iWork 08 is said to be a major update that will include a spreadsheet. Its word processor - Pages - is also supposed to have vastly improved. If this is true and if Pages can be made load a document from a local drive as fast as Safari loads a page from a site 8000 miles away; and if Pages can save documents in Office Open XML file format - then Microsoft's concern will be justified.

KW

I'm not sure where you get your info but works is NOT bundled with vista. Sure it comes on mostnew PC's but that is up to the OEM not something in vista by default.

Roderick Usher
Aug 2, 2007, 08:09 AM
Every other major application on the Mac has been converted to a UB, except Microsoft. It's embarrassing for the world's largest software developer to be last to this game.
Wrong - Intuit has yet to convert Quicken, or even announce an intent to do so. Plus the feature disparity between Mac Quicken and Windows Quicken is leagues beyond Office.

It's a delay, folks. Software development is an area in which you can be almost guaranteed this will happen. Windows Vista was delayed like a motherf***. Does that mean Microsoft didn't care about Windows?

koobcamuk
Aug 2, 2007, 08:11 AM
dang

that word cracks me up.

Anyway, Word is really slow and Powerpoint is actually embarrassing to use (as said earlier). Excel is OK. C'mon!

I would like MSN webcam support, although I seem to have gotten over this now.

Does that mean Microsoft didn't care about Windows?

Yup. Hammer, meet nail's head.

SWC
Aug 2, 2007, 08:12 AM
I started off really liking the ribbon interface. However, when I started doing some heavy spreadsheeting, it got extremely annoying switching between the 2 tabs that i use most often. For most people this should not be an issue, but I dont think the new interface is very suitable for heavy users of Office.

I cant really speak about the mac version, but I dislike the iWork style Inspector. Not a big fan of tabs (same issue as the ribbon!). iWork though digs itself out of this hole by allowing multiple inspectors, which i think works great. Hopefullfy Office '08 will do the same.

On another note, does anyone know if there is any way to read VBA in 08, thru a plugin or something?


I think in the end it boils down to what specifically you do as a heavy user. For example I am in Excel for no less than 3-4 hours a day 5 days a week but don't find myself switching back and forth between the same ribbons a lot. I have gotten most of my files automated to the point I only have to update figures everything else is handled automatically including self updating charts etc.

What would be nice is if they added an extra ribbon that you could add any functions you wanted. I have had a couple times where a seldomly used feature gets hard to find again.

Roderick Usher
Aug 2, 2007, 08:13 AM
Yup. Hammer, meet nail's head.
You're kidding, right? It's only their single largest source of revenue.

kddpop
Aug 2, 2007, 08:13 AM
Let's get Pages and Keynote on the Windows Platform and give MS Office a run for it's money.

i think this is a great idea. look what happened with itunes and the ipod. once windows users got a taste of how apple implements software solutions, people got it.

while there is no ipod-like hook to get people hooked on iWork as was the case with iTunes, i still think iWork would be a hit with windows users. just paves the way for switchers!

-kyle

dollystereo
Aug 2, 2007, 08:15 AM
Office sux, 4 years without revision 2004--->2008!!!, they dont really care about macs.

gonnabuyamac
Aug 2, 2007, 08:17 AM
Well, that sucks. I actually like Word for Mac, but I don't mind Pages too much. If Apple beefs up iWork (adding a spreadsheet program and a few more features to Pages), I might just completely switch to that.

koobcamuk
Aug 2, 2007, 08:21 AM
You're kidding, right? It's only their single largest source of revenue.

We can continue this once the word 'care' has been defined.

koobcamuk
Aug 2, 2007, 08:23 AM
while there is no ipod-like hook to get people hooked on iWork as was the case with iTunes, i still think iWork would be a hit with windows users. just paves the way for switchers!

Optional download with iTunes?

Not sure, but I am sure there is some legitimate way of advertising it.... OMG... advertise it in iTunes! (like the other news thread)

colemanj4
Aug 2, 2007, 08:23 AM
Am I the only one that absolutely despises Pages? I mean, what a piece of crap. That inspector is worse then the ribbon, and functions seem to me to be more hidden then any version of Office I have ever used.

And to the guy who said spreadsheets are a thing of the pass, grow up and go to any corporation in their financial department, and you will see that, that is all they pass stuff around on. Sure they use SAP et all, but any exporting is done to a spreadsheet to be analyzed.

SPUY767
Aug 2, 2007, 08:24 AM
Typical. They pass off the blameto someone else. Ummm, yeah, it's delayed because you guys switched to the processor that we're used to programming for!

notjustjay
Aug 2, 2007, 08:27 AM
Not PowerPoint. Try to do an actual presentation to an audience (not just opening a file at home). Lags while switching slides are not OK but still tolerable; the worst part comes when the presentation is over and a question from the audience is addressed such that a particular slide needs to be quickly accessed (happens every time). You go to the slide sorter view to pick the slide and.... and.... and.... and.... the pause is embarrassing, especially that this same operation is an order of magnitude faster on a cheap Dell laptop.

What happens when you jump directly to the slide in question by typing in the slide number and hitting Enter (while in presentation view)? Is it still laggy?

Keep a paper copy of your slide order so you know what slide numbers to go to... This looks MIGHTY impressive to your audience, by the way. I did the slide changes for a presenter from the computer in the back, and at the end he was trying to refer to something and said "Can we please go to slide ... 12?" I just hit 1-2-Enter and bam! Slide 12 was on the screen, and there was actually an audible gasp from the audience that I didn't have to either jump to the slide sorter view or do the flip-flip-flip thing in front of everyone.

Probably the best hidden feature in PowerPoint (Keynote too I believe).

DakotaGuy
Aug 2, 2007, 08:29 AM
bill gates doesn't care about mac people.

Hmm...well since 10.5 was also pushed back and off of schedule does this mean that Steve Jobs also doesn't care about Mac people?

alywa
Aug 2, 2007, 08:31 AM
Meh...

I've been perfectly happy with office 2004... heck, I'm still using office X on one of my computers.

IMHO, office pretty much peaked around 1995. Everything since then has been pretty much just shinier versions of previous suites.

Now, Apple, let's get to work on making iWork a better product (speciically Pages... Keynote already rocks!)

nsbio
Aug 2, 2007, 08:34 AM
Probably the best hidden feature in PowerPoint (Keynote too I believe).

It is a nice tip. I did not know about this feature - thanks! I bet ya that many (most) presenters do not know about this feature as well. Still, there are moments when I wish that Powerpoint was faster.

Roderick Usher
Aug 2, 2007, 08:39 AM
We can continue this once the word 'care' has been defined.
If you're referring to the comparative percentage of resources that Microsoft as a whole has dedicated to Mac development, that's perfectly reasonable. They're not Adobe - it's not like 25% or whatever of their Office users are Mac, as is the case with Photoshop.

If you're referring to the MacBU, I think it's abundantly clear from their blog postings that they do care, passionately, about what they're doing. I wouldn't want anyone else working on this piece of software.

glennyboiwpg
Aug 2, 2007, 08:42 AM
Hmm...well since 10.5 was also pushed back and off of schedule does this mean that Steve Jobs also doesn't care about Mac people?



Well... yeah... Right now, the only thing SJ cares about is Iphone People.

chameleon
Aug 2, 2007, 08:49 AM
This is a serious question for those of you out there who might know better than me: Is there a reason I shouldn't be satisfied with NeoOffice and will want to buy Office 2008 when it comes out?

This is my question too. I don't tend to use the comments & revisions feature that most often gets quoted here. What else is the major selling point for 2008?

Tight Exchange integration with an email client would be the only thing that jumps to mind. I've heard that Entourage isn't as well done as Outlook, however.

What say you experts?

kddpop
Aug 2, 2007, 08:58 AM
i have switched to using open office and neoffice and am pretty happy.

my very old copy of MS office (v.X) works but not very well. the opensource alternatives are as good if not better than that.

but the main reason i switched is not for any strong MS hatred but, rather, for cost reasons. free is a pretty hard deal to beat.

granted, i do not use any part of the MS suite except excel. and even then, it's fairly basic stuff. so, im not asking neooffice to do much for me.

im just cheap i guess.

-kyle

kwong2006
Aug 2, 2007, 09:05 AM
I am glad I switched over to NeoOffice.

bdkennedy1
Aug 2, 2007, 09:07 AM
Seeing as how Microsoft can't release anything close to the date it says it will, I think they should only announce the product when it's almost finished.

kwong2006
Aug 2, 2007, 09:09 AM
Seeing as how Microsoft can't release anything close to the date it says it will, I think they should only announce the product when it's almost finished.

Or 5 months after it is out, just so they can be for sure that it is out ;)

dr_lha
Aug 2, 2007, 09:13 AM
From what I can tell, Office is a Cocoa application as where Adobe's products seem to still use some of the Carbon API. It's 2007....OS X and Cocoa have been around since 2000......that's plenty of time......then again this is Adobe and Microsoft we are talking about.
You're joking right? Office a Cocoa Application? The current Office isn't even a Mach-O format binary (its a PEF). Its barely an OS X application! :)

wanchman
Aug 2, 2007, 09:15 AM
Am I the only one here that thinks that the current version of MS Office runs just fine under Rosetta?

SL

I just upgraded from an old 1 Ghz PowerBook to a new Macbook Pro and I find office to run like before. Meaning loads of crashes and so forth. But I have never got the impression that it is slower (I never use Word though, just Excel). If someone just made a spreadsheet app that did not lack in functionality compared to Excel I would not be using office at all as I believe there are better wordprocessors out there.

aussie_geek
Aug 2, 2007, 09:16 AM
Not that surprising considering their delay in releasing vista. Seems like the going thing these days whether it be Microsoft, Apple or even third party game developers...

As long as it won't be too long after the PC version is released. The major issue will be with the compatibility between all of the older office versions. Hopefully they will incorperate a choice to make files work with older versions of the software.

aussie_geek

Yankees 4 Life
Aug 2, 2007, 09:18 AM
bill gates doesn't care about mac people.

[QUOTE=MacRumorUser;3991586]A rather asenine comment if there ever was one. :rolleyes:
hey i guess you never saw kanye west's comments about geroge bush....

Kebabselector
Aug 2, 2007, 09:20 AM
Office sux, 4 years without revision 2004--->2008!!!, they dont really care about macs.

PC office 2003 replaced by Office 2007. 4 Years? (unless they had a stealth release of office 2005 which i didn't notice).

Why are people a little bit down that they can't use it for the new school/uni term? I've not been in education for a while now, but surely grades aren't improved with the version of office you have.

Cloudsurfer
Aug 2, 2007, 09:21 AM
Well really only 2 years since Apple announced their switch to Intel June 2005. That really changed everything for Mac Office Development.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of applications out there that became a Universal Binary. Need I say CS3? Heck, even Apple knew how to recode all it's iApps and even an entire operating system in a matter of months.

And then there's Microsoft, the biggest third party, who only gave us a decent Instant Messenger and a Beta Remote Desktop Connection. Say what you want, but I think it's simply pathetic.

phasornc
Aug 2, 2007, 09:23 AM
Admittedly I know nothing about software development, and Apple is yet to release their (expected) iLife and iWork updates, but this does seem a little slack on M$ part. Perhaps they need to hire some more personnel for mac development.

Alright everyone that does know something about software development sing along with me:

"The best way to make a late project even later . . . hire more people."

Having said that, the first Intel Mac came out 18 months ago. I believe MS Office new file format was 100% formalized over a year ago, and close to complete before that. Development Intel macs have been available for about 2 years. No something just sounds fishy about the about Intel & office xml formats.

When MacBU announced second have of 2007, Leopard was supposed to be out in July. Now no one likes to go through a major software release, and really there's Office and CS are the biggest things out there, and then have to do a substantial rewrite 2 months later. I think spotlight took the MacBS by suprise last time. The had to do a lot of rewriting to take advantage of it, because people expect it. But they weren't able to heavily promote it. I bet they are just waiting for the final Leopard to see if any there are any surprises that would integrate with the office suite and provide some nice advertising headlines on release day.

Also a lot of people will be buying Macs between now and December. Most will get office. If MacBU waits till January most will pay for office again.

And before everyone disses the MacBU, weren't many of the people that created Claris emailer responsible for Mac Outlook Express and Entourage? Wasn't the MacBU originally created out of the ashes of Claris when Apple was laying off people left and right back in '97 (and I had just overclocked my PowerCenterPro from 180mhz to 210!!!!).

~Shard~
Aug 2, 2007, 09:23 AM
A rather asenine comment if there ever was one. :rolleyes:

That hilarious Kanye West reference was obviously wasted on you. That was brilliant actually... :D

Oh, and if we're being critical of other people's posts, then I should point out that you spelled "asinine" wrong. :p :cool:

As for the news at hand, I don't see this as a bad thing at all. Software gets delayed all the time - it happens. I'd rather Office 2008 be delayed and released when it's ready to be released rather than have a buggy, poor version released "on schedule" just to make a previously defined (and now unrealistic) deadline. Release it when it's ready, no sooner. :cool:

alec
Aug 2, 2007, 09:24 AM
bill gates doesn't care about mac people.

kanye west doesn't care about black people??

bretm
Aug 2, 2007, 09:26 AM
This is the end of the wait for me.

I'm getting so sick of my sluggish Office 2004.

I've been playing around with Open Office under X11 and it's more than usable.

By January 2008, Open Office Aqua, which runs natively under Tiger should be ready, so I reckon that this is the way forward.

Microsoft obviously doesn't care about Mac anymore. This and the shocking MSN client without cam support just stinks.

I use office x (circa 2002) and there's not one ounce of sluggishness about it. Nada. Opens quickly. Runs perfectly. What is sluggish to you? 12 nanosecornds? 20 nanoseconds? In emulation it's probably running faster than it did on a G5, especially since it probably didn't support multiprocessors, and the multiprocessor on intel being duo core isn't seen as 2 processors, but one. Exactly what new features in the new office are you dying for? The only thing I noticed with 2004 is that it is harder to install on 2 computers, so I stuck with office x myself.

bretm
Aug 2, 2007, 09:29 AM
There are hundreds, if not thousands, of applications out there that became a Universal Binary. Need I say CS3? Heck, even Apple knew how to recode all it's iApps and even an entire operating system in a matter of months.

And then there's Microsoft, the biggest third party, who only gave us a decent Instant Messenger and a Beta Remote Desktop Connection. Say what you want, but I think it's simply pathetic.

Errrr... Apple has had an Intel Version since the very inception of Mac OS X. It was kept up to date and progressed along side it's PPC sibling. Probably a similar situation with their applications.

AidenShaw
Aug 2, 2007, 09:32 AM
kanye west doesn't care about black people??

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090300165.html

"Kanye West's Torrent of Criticism, Live on NBC"

p0intblank
Aug 2, 2007, 09:32 AM
Microsoft delaying a product? I wish I could've seen this coming.

bretm
Aug 2, 2007, 09:34 AM
Not PowerPoint. Try to do an actual presentation to an audience (not just opening a file at home). Lags while switching slides are not OK but still tolerable; the worst part comes when the presentation is over and a question from the audience is addressed such that a particular slide needs to be quickly accessed (happens every time). You go to the slide sorter view to pick the slide and.... and.... and.... and.... the pause is embarrassing, especially that this same operation is an order of magnitude faster on a cheap Dell laptop.

If you're actually using a Mac for the presentation, you'd figure that Keynote would be used.

kwong2006
Aug 2, 2007, 09:34 AM
I was wondering if Cider would have an effect on the Office in this case...

AidenShaw
Aug 2, 2007, 09:37 AM
...and the multiprocessor on intel being duo core isn't seen as 2 processors, but one...

The dual core shows up as 2 processors, a quad core as 4 CPUs, and a dual quad as 8 CPUs.

A dual-core is often licensed as a single processor, but the software sees it as two, and you have to have SMP support in the OS and multi-threading in the application to use both.

Office has been multi-threaded for ages - I can remember it using both CPUs on a 180 MHz Pentium Pro that I had in 1996.

~Shard~
Aug 2, 2007, 09:46 AM
Microsoft delaying a product? I wish I could've seen this coming.

Yeah, you never see Apple delaying a product... :rolleyes:

CalBoy
Aug 2, 2007, 09:56 AM
This is terrible for all of us who are students. Having an Intel Mac and no office suit to work with (well, one aside from Open/Neo Office). I guess Vista was just the beginning of Microsoft's "delayed products" list. I was affraid of something like this happening, esspecially since we had no news of this coming in last few months. :mad::mad::mad:

weckart
Aug 2, 2007, 09:56 AM
I think there is way too much overreaction here. Firstly the MBU was hampered by the slow development of Office 2007, having to wait until that was finished before it could even see where it was going with the Mac version. From that, it had to take a decision about how many of the changes it could incorporate into the codebase, bearing in mind that the entire codebase had to be ported over to Xcode so that it could compile as a UB. Since Office 2007 only went gold last November, they have effectively allowed themselves one year to update the product AND change to UB. It is not an unreasonable amount of time given the size of the program, and my initial reaction to the initial autumn release date was that it was too aggressive. You can also see from the drag and drop converter just released that they still have some work to do with Excel's new file format.

Disregarding the whingeing going on, I think the uptake of Office 2008 will exceed 2004 for the sole reason that for non-students it will have to be cheaper. Microsoft changed the licensing on the Windows version from Students to Home and Students for the version containing Excel, Word, Powerpoint and One Note. This is as much as most users will need, and all for £100 in the UK. Since the Mac version only contains Excel, Word, Powerpoint and a very cut-down Outlook aka Entourage, one would think that a similar low price will be introduced, perhaps dropping Entourage, which few will miss.

maccompaq
Aug 2, 2007, 09:59 AM
I'm just hoping the upcoming iWork upgrade may be enough for me to pass on MS Office when I finally buy a Mac in August. I just need a decent word processor and occasional-use spreadsheet which is compatible with Excel. I use MS Office in the work place, but rarely use it for 'fun stuff' at home.

You will be very happy with NeoOffice, and it is FREE. It handles MS Word and Excel files with ease. No need to give MS any more $.

Cloudsurfer
Aug 2, 2007, 10:15 AM
Errrr... Apple has had an Intel Version since the very inception of Mac OS X. It was kept up to date and progressed along side it's PPC sibling. Probably a similar situation with their applications.

Yes I know, but there was really a lot more to it than just deleting the PPC copy and shipping the x86 copy. I'm sure the Intel copy was just a basic version of the operating system for them to fall back on, there still was a considerable amount of work to do.

p0intblank
Aug 2, 2007, 10:21 AM
Yeah, you never see Apple delaying a product... :rolleyes:

Apple has had delays, but none near the magnitude of Microsoft.

Eraserhead
Aug 2, 2007, 10:26 AM
If you're referring to the comparative percentage of resources that Microsoft as a whole has dedicated to Mac development, that's perfectly reasonable. They're not Adobe - it's not like 25% or whatever of their Office users are Mac, as is the case with Photoshop.


For Photoshop it's said (http://theappleblog.com/2007/04/09/why-do-software-companies-support-the-mac) to be as high as 60% Mac. Whereas for Office its probably closer to 5-6% as everyone uses Office on Windows too.

Of course the lack of format converters for Office on the Mac side is appaling when they were available for Windows in April 2006.

xUKHCx
Aug 2, 2007, 10:31 AM
i think this is a great idea. look what happened with itunes and the ipod. once windows users got a taste of how apple implements software solutions, people got it.

while there is no ipod-like hook to get people hooked on iWork as was the case with iTunes, i still think iWork would be a hit with windows users. just paves the way for switchers!

-kyle

Well pages is rubbish as a replacement for Word and this will be see by the world thus having a negative impact

Am I the only one that absolutely despises Pages? I mean, what a piece of crap. That inspector is worse then the ribbon, and functions seem to me to be more hidden then any version of Office I have ever used.

And to the guy who said spreadsheets are a thing of the pass, grow up and go to any corporation in their financial department, and you will see that, that is all they pass stuff around on. Sure they use SAP et all, but any exporting is done to a spreadsheet to be analyzed.

Totally agree, the Inspector is also horribly buggy on my computer despite numerous reinstalls, it gets all distorted and stretched and no longer works have to quit pages and start again, or more usually decided not to try pages again for a couple more months.

BWhaler
Aug 2, 2007, 10:37 AM
bill gates doesn't care about mac people.

Brilliantly funny and clever. Well done.


A rather asenine comment if there ever was one. :rolleyes:

Clearly you don't get the joke.


Haha. Love the Kanye reference.

...glad someone else did...

ddrueckhammer
Aug 2, 2007, 11:11 AM
This is terrible for all of us who are students. Having an Intel Mac and no office suit to work with (well, one aside from Open/Neo Office). I guess Vista was just the beginning of Microsoft's "delayed products" list. I was affraid of something like this happening, esspecially since we had no news of this coming in last few months. :mad::mad::mad:

I'm a student and have been very happy with the NeoOffice and iWork combination I use.

For the longest time I used iWork alone and was very happy with it, but there was an occasional formatting error converting tables and the like into word. Also, I missed having a built-in thesaurus. (I know I can use the system one, but I hate having to cut and paste the words into the document instead of having a replace button) Usually if I wrote a huge document with a lot of formating, I would have to carefully proofread it after converting to Word.

Since then, I have discovered NeoOffice though, and the compatibility is spot on. The docs aren't as pretty as if I were using iWork, but when working with groups this isn't really that important.

Too be honest, unless there is some killer feature I don't know about, I can't see myself plunking down the money for MS Office at all anymore. The only need for it is to entice switchers who feel that they somehow must have MS Offce to survive. For seasoned Mac users though, I imagine most of us are smart enough to know that we can do 95% of everything MS Office does with NeoOffice, iWork, or LaTEX.

IMO, it is very fishy that the level of support that MS gives to the Mac platform is dwindling as Macintosh market share increases. We no longer have a MS developed Windows Media Player, the MSN client is a joke, and I imagine Office 2008, when released, will be somehow nerfed as well.

(I tried OpenOffice.org Aqua but found it to be buggy and not ready to be my primary office suit.)

What is that you are doing that you need MS Office for anyway?

CaptSaltyJack
Aug 2, 2007, 11:18 AM
I've been using NeoOffice since I got my Mac, I really like it a lot.

I see all this talk about OpenOffice going Aqua. Where's proof of this?

MacHiavelli
Aug 2, 2007, 11:22 AM
We use Access databases (in the company and on the company website) and so are stuck with having to run Windows. If we could get Access on Apple, we'd chuck out all the Windows machines in a flash.

elg23
Aug 2, 2007, 11:24 AM
damn, i was hoping to install leopard via format and install, and then install the new office...

oh well, hopefully iwork will be good enough to make me convert for good

cinder
Aug 2, 2007, 11:27 AM
I could've predicted this.

I got to play with an early, early beta about 4 months ago through my old job who does a lot of Mac Office work and it was extremely rough, buggy and not even close to being finished.
Let alone refined . . .

Father Jack
Aug 2, 2007, 11:27 AM
At least we can compare it with iwork 08, I'd probably go with iwork 08.
Regarding iWork 08, let's not be too hasty before we see it and we don't know for sure if it will include a spreadsheet !!!! ...... :o

I hate Microsoft as much as the next guy, but come on .... Pages isn't really a rival for Word ... or is it? .... :confused:

Peace
Aug 2, 2007, 11:31 AM
I don't see what the big deal is.Office 2004 runs pretty good on most Intel Mac's.A wait till MWSF2008 isn't the end of the world.

ddrueckhammer
Aug 2, 2007, 11:31 AM
Am I the only one that absolutely despises Pages? I mean, what a piece of crap. That inspector is worse then the ribbon, and functions seem to me to be more hidden then any version of Office I have ever used.

Overall, I would say Pages is an Ok word processor. It is capable of producing documents that are head over heals nicer looking than MS Office. Still you are right, the inspector is a poorly implemented and should be re-designed. Once I got used to it though, I was able to find most things very quickly. You know you can customize the tool bar right? There are a few things that I put out on my tool bar that I actually find useful like increase/decrease indentation, and superscript/subscript icons.

For an everyday Word processor though, I find NeoOffice very good for the average user.

kresh
Aug 2, 2007, 11:33 AM
If twenty percent (20%) of all Microsoft Office sales in the US are for Mac computers, does this mean that piracy is totally rampant in the PC world or does the market share myth really exist?

I think it's a little of both. Of all my PC owning friends that have Office installed, I can only think of one that has bought the suite. I know that's anecdotal, but it's all I have to work with :)

As for the market share, how can 5% of computers sold run 20% of a purchased copy of a productivity suite. Can the market share be artificially low because of all the devices that are sold and counted as PC's. I would love to see the numbers showing Mac desktops and notebooks compared to PC desktops and notebooks, and not servers - Wal-Mart registers (Windows XP OEM machines) - kiosk installations - ect...

ddrueckhammer
Aug 2, 2007, 11:34 AM
I've been using NeoOffice since I got my Mac, I really like it a lot.

I see all this talk about OpenOffice going Aqua. Where's proof of this?

Here is the OpenOffice Aqua site. You can download it now but it is still quite buggy, and you should stick with NeoOffice for the time being IMO.

http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/download/aqua.html

CaptSaltyJack
Aug 2, 2007, 11:38 AM
Here is the OpenOffice Aqua site. You can download it now but it is still quite buggy, and you should stick with NeoOffice for the time being IMO.

http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/download/aqua.html

Thanks! I'll keep an eye on that.

xUKHCx
Aug 2, 2007, 11:38 AM
If twenty percent (20%) of all Microsoft Office sales in the US are for Mac computers, does this mean that piracy is totally rampant in the PC world or does the market share myth really exist?

I think it's a little of both. Of all my PC owning friends that have Office installed, I can only think of one that has bought the suite. I know that's anecdotal, but it's all I have to work with :)


Out of all of my mac using friends (15) i only know of one who has purchased office (me v.X)

Father Jack
Aug 2, 2007, 11:44 AM
If twenty percent (20%) of all Microsoft Office sales in the US are for Mac computers, does this mean that piracy is totally rampant in the PC world

I'm afraid so ... :o

Scalfani
Aug 2, 2007, 11:45 AM
Hey Guys, Finally registered and decided I had to respond to this.

As far as it being delayed, whatever we'll get it soon. The comment i really wanted to respond to was when doing presentations, i almost always convert them to a .pdf then present them that way, this way there is no chance of formats getting messed up. Plus most of the effects are just plain annoying. I do realize that if you wanted a movie or animation you can not do this, but i find it works really well for 90 percent of presentations

Also as far as excel, they really need to update this. I'm a chemist and usually need to graph about 60,000 points. Excel 2004 can only handle 32,000, so i have to split it up into 2 data sets, not that big if deal other than the 10,000 error messages i get trying to do this that bogs the system down. I heard excel 2007 can handle up to one million points.

Oh and btw I really only find the office suite slow when i bring in files from my PC to the mac. it has to convert it. But If i make the file on the mac, I don't have any speed issues.???

Please oh please make iwork with it's own spreadsheet app.

ddrueckhammer
Aug 2, 2007, 11:48 AM
We use Access databases (in the company and on the company website) and so are stuck with having to run Windows. If we could get Access on Apple, we'd chuck out all the Windows machines in a flash.

How big are your databases? I imagine they aren't that big if you can use Access for them. Most of the companies I have worked for had to use SQL Server or Oracle due to shear size and reliability concerns.

It would be a bit of a hassle but you could probably switch to Filemaker as it is cross-platform, has been around forever, and works great. I know it would be annoying to have to learn a different program, and convert existing records, but as you say, your Windows machines are annoying too. You could download the 30 day trial to see if this might work for you.

I haven't tried the database in NeoOffice but you might download that and see if it converts your databases over well. My experience with documents, spreadsheets, and presentations has been pretty solid so far with this suite. And as others have said, you can beat free.

Also, I hear MySQL is nice too. Here are some links to get you started:

Filemaker Pro Trial (http://www.filemakertrial.com/nskto/form/entry.aspx?ovmkt=32595CC9C36E4082917F5044E2FDDF15&WT.mc_id=32595CC9C36E4082917F5044E2FDDF15)

Neo Office Download Page (http://www.neooffice.org/neojava/en/maindownload.php)

MySQL Dowload Page (http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/5.0.html#macosx-dmg)

CaptSaltyJack
Aug 2, 2007, 11:51 AM
We use Access databases (in the company and on the company website) and so are stuck with having to run Windows. If we could get Access on Apple, we'd chuck out all the Windows machines in a flash.

You could just run MySQL, which is free, AND highly reliable, and there's tons of free support out there for it (community based). Be sure to get phpMyAdmin if you go the MySQL route, it makes administration a thousand times easier.

pale9
Aug 2, 2007, 11:59 AM
wow, getting office for mac to run on the intel processor IS SUCH A HUGE TASK! we have no experience in that area! the thousands of programmers we employ are all tied up with more important stuff, like the vista menu button...

ckeck
Aug 2, 2007, 12:05 PM
Microsoft obviously doesn't care about Mac anymore. This and the shocking MSN client without cam support just stinks.

How did you come up with this? Office 2008 looks far better than its Windows counter-part...and they just released a new/updated version of Remote Desktop.

I believe they care quite a bit about the Mac still...even if they are a little slow.

Black Belt
Aug 2, 2007, 12:06 PM
If twenty percent (20%) of all Microsoft Office sales in the US are for Mac computers, does this mean that piracy is totally rampant in the PC world or does the market share myth really exist?

I think it's a little of both. Of all my PC owning friends that have Office installed, I can only think of one that has bought the suite. I know that's anecdotal, but it's all I have to work with :)

As for the market share, how can 5% of computers sold run 20% of a purchased copy of a productivity suite. Can the market share be artificially low because of all the devices that are sold and counted as PC's. I would love to see the numbers showing Mac desktops and notebooks compared to PC desktops and notebooks, and not servers - Wal-Mart registers (Windows XP OEM machines) - kiosk installations - ect...

You didn't read the article.

"Sales of the Mac versions made up about 20 percent of dollars spent on Office at U.S. retail stores and Web sites in 2006"

Most copies of MS Office are purchased through Volume license or Educational license. Retail and web are the most expensive ways to buy MS Office, so maybe that says PC users are statistically more careful with their money. :p

BTW, the latest version of Office is REALLY cool. The development team has really taken a complex product and made ALL the features intuitive and accessible.

Kingsly
Aug 2, 2007, 12:10 PM
"It really is just a quality issue across the board," Craig Eisler, general manager of Microsoft's Macintosh business unit, said in an interview Wednesday.
He continued, "We really just don't have any [quality]. That's the fundamental problem we seem to be encountering here, as with Vista, and many other products we make. Our hope is that by 2008 Apple (NASDAQ: AAPL) will have released an updated version of iWork, and everyone here at Microsoft will be off the hook."

Black Belt
Aug 2, 2007, 12:26 PM
wow, getting office for mac to run on the intel processor IS SUCH A HUGE TASK! we have no experience in that area! the thousands of programmers we employ are all tied up with more important stuff, like the vista menu button...

You obviously are completely ignorant about software development. Microsoft products are built for incredible resiliency among an enormous array of hardware and software interdependencies. Sure MS is freakin slow on releasing the stuff, but Apple is no whiz either. Apple has an extremely limited hardware and software set to program for and they are still LATE with Leopard. MS probably wants it to work beautifully with Leopard but Apple can't get their act together and get it finalized. Apple's delays translate into delays for Microsoft. Apple is not capable of the same level of quality and bulletproof engineering in unsanitized environments, as evidenced by the continual problems with iTunes, Quicktime and Safari for PC.

Roderick Usher
Aug 2, 2007, 12:36 PM
Microsoft products are built for incredible resiliency among an enormous array of hardware and software interdependencies.
Indeed - and given this Herculean task, I've always been impressed at what Microsoft has been able to manage. I can't think of another software company that's even close to being up to that particular job.

Apple is not capable of the same level of quality and bulletproof engineering in unsanitized environments, as evidenced by the continual problems with iTunes, Quicktime and Safari for PC.
Agreed again, though in these forums, you may have signed your own death warrant. ;) Of the examples you gave, I'd say iTunes is the most glaring; it's inexcusable for it to continue to have the issues with Vista that it does this long after Vista's release.

guitarman777
Aug 2, 2007, 12:36 PM
Like anyone's really surprised it's going to be delayed due to a "quality issue across the board." What else is new, Microsoft?

Remember when Vista's in-progress name was Longhorn? Had to be almost completely rewritten because the infrastructure was like a house of cards. That's Microsoft for you. Poor programming off the front end and they don't go back and fix it until darn near the targeted release date, so they push it back 6-12 months. Not surprised. It's only been four years, what's another year gonna matter? Just my $.02.

kwmacforum
Aug 2, 2007, 12:53 PM
I'm not sure where you get your info but works is NOT bundled with vista. Sure it comes on mostnew PC's but that is up to the OEM not something in vista by default.

Yes, you are right - apologies; I was referring to this news story:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6927491.stm

in which it is claimed MS will be offering MS Works as a free download (though it will contain ads).

KW

rog
Aug 2, 2007, 12:57 PM
Who cares? Even though it will be universal, it will probably be slower than 2004, just like 2004 was far slower than the already slow v.X. I still have v.X and see no reason to "upgrade" I think 98 was the first version in years that had new functions I actually use.

yzp
Aug 2, 2007, 12:58 PM
well what can I say. Microsoft at its best, Mac BU or not. They've had four years to beef this one up


thats exactly why MS will be going down someday, while Apple will continue to innovate and do it properly!

AidenShaw
Aug 2, 2007, 01:01 PM
Apple has had delays, but none near the magnitude of Microsoft.

That's hysterical, almost spit my coffee.

I suggest that you check Apple history for the terms "Pink", "Copland" and "Rhapsody" - if you really believe that Apple is any better than other software companies at bringing big projects in on schedule.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taligent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copland_%28operating_system%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhapsody_%28operating_system%29

Black Belt
Aug 2, 2007, 01:03 PM
Like anyone's really surprised it's going to be delayed due to a "quality issue across the board." What else is new, Microsoft?

Remember when Vista's in-progress name was Longhorn? Had to be almost completely rewritten because the infrastructure was like a house of cards. That's Microsoft for you. Poor programming off the front end and they don't go back and fix it until darn near the targeted release date, so they push it back 6-12 months. Not surprised. It's only been four years, what's another year gonna matter? Just my $.02.

Yes, they had been carrying forward some old code to maintain compatibility with older programs and software. Vista was a fresh rewrite (I'd like to see Apple try that one!) and they STILL managed to have incredible backwards compatibility, something Apple never could pull off. And as MS products are constantly under attack from hackers, something Apple has never had to deal with because of their low marketshare, they also wanted to greatly enhance security which has resulted in a remarkably stable and secure environment. Coming up on a year with no major exploits. An incredible feat of software engineering.

Multimedia
Aug 2, 2007, 01:06 PM
What's all the hubbub? With Leopard not out 'til November, two months for Microsoft to make sure most of the bugs are squashed seems very fast to me. January at MacWorld is a perfect time to launch it. :)

atsang
Aug 2, 2007, 01:09 PM
If you're looking for a word processor that does .doc files but you don't need fancy schmancy features like embedded images, try Bean (http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/24881/bean). It opens as fast as textedit, but its got most general Word features.

And best of all its free.

Bean is a small, easy-to-use word processor that includes:

* a live word count
* a Get Info panel for in-depth statistics
* a zoom-slider to easily change the view scale
* an Inspector panel with lots of sliders
* date-stamped backups
* autosaving
* a page layout mode
* an alternate colors option (e.g., white text on blue)
* an option to show invisible characters (tabs, returns, spaces)
* selection of text by text style, paragraph style, color, etc.
* a floating windows option (like Stickies has)
* easy to use menus
* remembers cursor postion (excluding .txt, .html, .webarchive formats)
* all of Cocoa's good stuff (dictionary, word completion, etc.)

MacAddict2000
Aug 2, 2007, 01:11 PM
This is the very reason I got iWork. Every other critical app is now a Universal Binary and has been for quite some time. What's their deal? I can't say this was unexpected though.

morespce54
Aug 2, 2007, 01:20 PM
Oh noes!! Office 2008 isn't going to be released until... 2008?

:D
yes. actually, if it's released before 2009, it would already be quite good... for MS Mac BU! ;)

liberty4all
Aug 2, 2007, 01:26 PM
So are they finally brining MS Project back for Mac OS X?! The last Mac version was 4.0! :-(

corywoolf
Aug 2, 2007, 01:39 PM
I am fine with Office 2004. They should really drop the price on the student edition of 2004 to $49.99. And give a coupon for 25% off the new 2008 student edition with every box from now until 2008 is released.

nimbusthegreat
Aug 2, 2007, 01:46 PM
Then you need to make your presentation on a PC, I have seen strange issues of powerpoint screwing up with simple user interface elements from PC to Mac powerpoint so it isn't perfect.

The only way to guarantee your presentation will work is to bring your own laptop/cables, Macs can export to DVI, VGA or S-Video so should be able to work with any projector and then you can use Keynote.

guarantee? wow...i'm an audio/video technician that specializes in computer support for corporate conferences and i've seen plenty of times where a person's laptop takes a dump in the middle of the presentation. they forgot to charge the battery, they didn't bring their power cord, they put the system to sleep after a short period of time, their video card doesn't like being attached to a projector, their video card isn't robust enough to play the video on the local screen and the projector, they forgot the adaptor for dvi to vga, yadda yadda yadda.....

one of the companies i work for typically requires presenters to submit their presentations to a centralized "speaker ready room" beforehand. it's then run off of our machines in the meeting room; desktop machines with robust video cards, fast hard drives, and plenty of ram. and we have a backup machine in the meeting room. in many cases we have macs in the room as well but for those times when we don't we convert it over to a pc and most of the time it's without too many hiccups. when a problem does occur we fix it.

mac to pc powerpoints do indeed have their issues from time to time. most of the time it is because the mac user doesn't run the office compatibility check to see what will work on the pc side of things. most often they used tiffs instead of jpgs or they relied heavily on transparencies or used fonts not available on the pc system.

now that being said, every last one of these issues can be dealt with if you have a mac to work on. export the tiffs to jpgs, you can export entire slides to jpgs or pngs and then reimport the images, if the slide has animations you can import it multiple times and rebuild it by cropping to the various elements you want to appear or disappear. so on, and so on.

i'm personally looking forward to office 2008 to see if it is more compatible between mac and pc. it would solve a lot of my "busy" work and free me up to take care of other things.

corywoolf
Aug 2, 2007, 01:47 PM
I just heard from a friend, who works at MS, that the main reason for the delay is Clippy the Paper Clip is being totally revamped with support for core image. They're also going to include a UB version of the new Microsoft Bob 2008 BETA that requires a minimum of 2 GB RAM, 2.2 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo, and Microsoft Silverlight to be installed. They recommend you install a patch that replaces dashboard with MS Bob. :confused:

macidiot
Aug 2, 2007, 01:50 PM
I do hope they use the time to make Entourage fully Exchange compliant. My uni email is being transferred to Exchange very soon and if I have to use Entourage, I hope it works more reliably than other people I know here have found it.

Actually, I wish Apple made Mail and iCal fully Exchange compliant. That would be much better.

Won't happen. They can do it, but choose not to. It will most likely never have feature parity with the Windows version.

Eraserhead
Aug 2, 2007, 01:57 PM
guarantee? wow...i'm an audio/video technician that specializes in computer support for corporate conferences and i've seen plenty of times where a person's laptop takes a dump in the middle of the presentation. they forgot to charge the battery, they didn't bring their power cord, they put the system to sleep after a short period of time, their video card doesn't like being attached to a projector, their video card isn't robust enough to play the video on the local screen and the projector, they forgot the adaptor for dvi to vga, yadda yadda yadda.....

Well I'm assuming that the presenter is competent so would remember those things ;). But as you seem to have a good setup I'm sure you could deal with the problems beforehand.

zephead
Aug 2, 2007, 02:12 PM
So would this mark the first time in history that a product with a year in the title actually comes out that calendar year? :eek:

(You know, since products branded as '08 come out in '07, and then '09 stuff will come out in '08 and so on?)

~Shard~
Aug 2, 2007, 02:21 PM
Apple has had delays, but none near the magnitude of Microsoft.

Haha, thanks for the laugh. :D

To familiarize yourself and better educate yourself regarding Apple's history of product delays and such, I suggest you follow Aiden Shaw's advice and look up Copland, Rhapsody and the like. Good reading. :cool:

phytonix
Aug 2, 2007, 02:37 PM
M$ better make it a good and solid upgrade

mathwhiz90601
Aug 2, 2007, 02:41 PM
...

When MacBU announced second have of 2007, Leopard was supposed to be out in July. Now no one likes to go through a major software release, and really there's Office and CS are the biggest things out there, and then have to do a substantial rewrite 2 months later. I think spotlight took the MacBS by suprise last time. The had to do a lot of rewriting to take advantage of it, because people expect it. But they weren't able to heavily promote it. I bet they are just waiting for the final Leopard to see if any there are any surprises that would integrate with the office suite and provide some nice advertising headlines on release day.

....

Perhaps MSoffice 08 is going to take advantage of Leopard features like Core Animation.

Voltayre
Aug 2, 2007, 02:46 PM
I started off really liking the ribbon interface. However, when I started doing some heavy spreadsheeting, it got extremely annoying switching between the 2 tabs that i use most often. For most people this should not be an issue, but I dont think the new interface is very suitable for heavy users of Office.

Ah, well, aside from the occasional glimpse at a timetable spreadsheet I've barely used Excel in Office 2007 (or 2004, come to that... since finishing my degree I have had practically no need to use it). I spend most of my time in Word with regular forays into PowerPoint. Valid point though - just because Office 2007 suits the way I work doesn't mean it's going to be the same for everyone else :)

Voltayre
Aug 2, 2007, 02:51 PM
Apple has had delays, but none near the magnitude of Microsoft.

Sure they do (I'm still waiting for that 3GHz PowerMac G5 Steve promised us that we'd have by 2004 ;)). It's just that with Apple and their infernal secrecy about every future product and refusing to confirm or deny release dates until they actually arrive fewer people notice, because fewer people realise that there's even been a delay. Microsoft on the other hand blabber about any and every little they're working on years in advance, so if something is delayed or ends up being somehow different from their original intent it sticks out like a sore thumb. It's a case of counting the hits and ignoring the misses, I think - sorry :o

dummptyhummpty
Aug 2, 2007, 03:33 PM
I'm not sure where you get your info but works is NOT bundled with vista. Sure it comes on mostnew PC's but that is up to the OEM not something in vista by default.

True. My Acer that has Vista did not come with Works. Actually it came preloaded with very little extra software. Mostly just some Acer stuff to enhance Media Center. Very nice!

cliffjumper68
Aug 2, 2007, 03:57 PM
I would not be surprised if office did not actually ship until late 2008. Remember the longhorn/ vista timeline. Microsoft is not exactly punctual. :D

tristan
Aug 2, 2007, 04:05 PM
Thanks for nothing, Microsoft. As far as I know, this is the *last* major app that hasn't gone universal, and frankly, Microsoft should have the most experience with coding Intel software. I can't believe this, but I guess I should have seen it coming.

I'd like to use NeoOffice out of principle, but I can't. Excel's not there yet. Weird syntax, too slow, and doesn't support my plug-ins. So I guess I'm stuck with Office v.X until January, but its good enough I suppose.

Hairball
Aug 2, 2007, 04:09 PM
Just bring on iWork '08!

sebastianlewis
Aug 2, 2007, 04:25 PM
a kick in the crotch for us students with our first semester coming up!

Yes it is. Glad I don't have to deal with it for a few years, but I just convinced a friend to buy a Macbook and he did a few weeks ago and loves it but he has his first semester later this month and I told him to get by with NeoOffice until Office for Mac came out sometime soon and now Microsoft pulls this. Damn it.. I'm looking around for alternatives already in an effort to convince him to just skip Office for Mac entirely. So far there's Nisus Writer Pro (or Express), Mellel, I think there are a few spreadsheet apps out there and he's planning to buy iWork 06 and then buy the newer version with upgrade pricing when it comes out so at least there's Keynote.

Sebastian

Roderick Usher
Aug 2, 2007, 04:27 PM
As far as I know, this is the *last* major app that hasn't gone universal,
Intuit still hasn't released a UB of Quicken, or given any indication that it will.

Black Belt
Aug 2, 2007, 06:30 PM
Oh that's a shame, you need to start posting en masse on the Intuit site. They do listen. Maybe there was too much piracy on the Mac Version to make it worthwhile.

motulist
Aug 2, 2007, 06:40 PM
To familiarize yourself and better educate yourself regarding Apple's history of product delays and such, I suggest you follow Aiden Shaw's advice and look up Copland, Rhapsody and the like. Good reading. :cool:


ugh. I forgot about those days. Please don't remind me!

paulbaker
Aug 2, 2007, 06:56 PM
Thanks for nothing, Microsoft. As far as I know, this is the *last* major app that hasn't gone universal, and frankly, Microsoft should have the most experience with coding Intel software. I can't believe this, but I guess I should have seen it coming.

I'd like to use NeoOffice out of principle, but I can't. Excel's not there yet. Weird syntax, too slow, and doesn't support my plug-ins. So I guess I'm stuck with Office v.X until January, but its good enough I suppose.

I tried NeoOffice and I had to say it wasn't terrible. What made me re-install office 2004 was Calc. Terrible. Terrible. And now that I used Neo for close to a month alone.. for some reason Word is not so bad. So, I like to get away from MS too, but really since I already own Office 2004, it is better than anything else out there.

Note: Mariner -Calc is a horrible replacement. There is a very simple spreadsheet that is nice called Tables. It is nice, but $65, when I already own Excel didn't make sense.

Final: If I didn't own Office, I would settle for substandard (slightly) OO / Neo. But I do own it, and though I have tried not to use it (spite I guess), but there is really no getting around the champ of office applications, at least now anyway. Not until iWork starts to walk upright.

iW00t
Aug 2, 2007, 07:19 PM
Typical. They pass off the blameto someone else. Ummm, yeah, it's delayed because you guys switched to the processor that we're used to programming for!

Newflash: nobody programs "for a processor".

You program for a platform. Said platform gets changed. Big difference.

Your logic makes it sound as if Apple can trivially produce a version of iTunes for Linux, because guess what? Linux runs on the same processors as Windows and OS X too!

Quillz
Aug 2, 2007, 07:53 PM
Am I the only one here that thinks that the current version of MS Office runs just fine under Rosetta?

SL

It runs fine for me, but remember that Microsoft bashing is the "in" thing right now.

AidenShaw
Aug 2, 2007, 07:58 PM
ugh. I forgot about those days. Please don't remind me!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taligent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copland...ting_system%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhapsod...ting_system%29

From the Copland article:

"In August 1996, 'Developer Release 0' was sent to a small number of selected partners. Far from demonstrating improved stability, it often crashed after doing nothing at all, and was completely unusable for development. In October, Apple moved the target delivery date to 'sometime,' hinting that it might be 1997.

One of the groups most surprised by the announcement was Apple's own hardware team, who had been waiting for Copland to allow the PowerPC to truly shine. Members of Apple's software QA team suggested, jokingly, that given current resources and the number of bugs in the system they could clear the program for shipping some time around 2030.

Later that summer the situation was no better, and Amelio realized something serious had to be done. He hired Ellen Hancock away from National Semiconductor to take over engineering and get Copland development back on track.

After a few months on the job, Hancock realized the situation was hopeless; given current development and engineering, Copland would never ship at all. Additionally she discovered that while developers in the company were aware that Gershwin was to be the "fully modern" follow-on, no one was quite sure what "fully modern" meant exactly, at least in comparison to Copland, nor was anyone assigned to actually work on it.

She suggested that development continue on the existing Mac OS to improve its stability, while looking outside the company for a new operating system. In August 1996, just as 'Developer Release 1' was being prepared, Apple officially canceled Copland. Among the reasons given were the slow pace of development and the many technical problems remaining to be solved.

Following Hancock's plan, development of System 7.5 continued with a number of technologies originally slated for Copland being incorporated into the base OS. Stability and performance was improved by Mac OS 7.6, which dropped the "System" moniker.

Eventually many features developed for Copland, including support for "themes" (the default Platinum was the only theme included) were rolled into Mac OS 7.7, which was rebranded as "Mac OS 8". With the return of Steve Jobs, this rebranding also allowed Apple to exploit a legal loophole to terminate third-party manufacturers' licenses to System 7 and effectively shut down the Macintosh clone market."

-edit Oops, sorry - you said *not* to remind you ;)

Frisco
Aug 2, 2007, 08:02 PM
Intuit still hasn't released a UB of Quicken, or given any indication that it will.

And just think Intuit's CEO is on Apple's Board of Directors.

This only reflects bad on Apple.

Microsoft has Apple by the "balls" with Office. Balmer, Gates and Jobs all know it. Do you?

queshy
Aug 2, 2007, 09:02 PM
boooo!!!! i was really looking forward to this software.

motulist
Aug 2, 2007, 09:55 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taligent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copland...ting_system%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhapsod...ting_system%29

From the Copland article...

<snip>

ARG!!! All my Mac's fans just went into overdrive, fuming with rage! Michael Spindler, Apple's CEO from that era of crap, really should be hung up by his nut sack. He did such a terrible job that it's hard to fathom. And the most credit you can give Gil Amelio is that he was smart enough to buy NeXT inc. which brought Steve Jobs back into the company.

paulbaker
Aug 2, 2007, 10:33 PM
And just think Intuit's CEO is on Apple's Board of Directors.

This only reflects bad on Apple.

Microsoft has Apple by the "balls" with Office. Balmer, Gates and Jobs all know it. Do you?

Sorry for the off-topic reply here, but...

I guess I have known this for a while, too.. So why does Intuits Mac stuff suck so bad... and yes I have Quicken 2007.

zebra451
Aug 2, 2007, 10:42 PM
Quite frankly, I don't care if it was delayed until 2080! I've switched to NeoOffice and have never looked back.
I work for a university that gets a major discount on all M$ products and I still refuse to use Micro$oft Office.:p

CalBoy
Aug 2, 2007, 11:57 PM
I'm a student and have been very happy with the NeoOffice and iWork combination I use.

For the longest time I used iWork alone and was very happy with it, but there was an occasional formatting error converting tables and the like into word. Also, I missed having a built-in thesaurus. (I know I can use the system one, but I hate having to cut and paste the words into the document instead of having a replace button) Usually if I wrote a huge document with a lot of formating, I would have to carefully proofread it after converting to Word.

Actually, I've recently come to the realization that I may not need Office afterall. Since I have to send files to professors in PDF anyways (mostly), whether or not it's Word doesn't make a difference right? The one concern I have is with long documents that may not format well if I ever have to work with others.

Since then, I have discovered NeoOffice though, and the compatibility is spot on. The docs aren't as pretty as if I were using iWork, but when working with groups this isn't really that important.
NeoOffice is ok for me, but I've noticed that with one of my documents (25 pages long) it lost a few pages (down to 23 in NeoOffice). I too find that the docs don't look as "pretty" but I can get over that, since OS X as a whole is a lot prettier.

Too be honest, unless there is some killer feature I don't know about, I can't see myself plunking down the money for MS Office at all anymore. The only need for it is to entice switchers who feel that they somehow must have MS Offce to survive. For seasoned Mac users though, I imagine most of us are smart enough to know that we can do 95% of everything MS Office does with NeoOffice, iWork, or LaTEX.
Yes, the financial argument is a good one. No need to spend $200 on a product that can be replaced with several free or $40 ones.

IMO, it is very fishy that the level of support that MS gives to the Mac platform is dwindling as Macintosh market share increases. We no longer have a MS developed Windows Media Player, the MSN client is a joke, and I imagine Office 2008, when released, will be somehow nerfed as well.
Noticed this too huh? When Microsoft gets ready for a fight, it fights dirty.


What is that you are doing that you need MS Office for anyway?
Just college papers mostly. The longest of which will probably be my thesis (50 pages).

ddrueckhammer
Aug 3, 2007, 12:40 AM
Just college papers mostly. The longest of which will probably be my thesis (50 pages).

Ah, I feel for you. I'm an Engineering major. Ten pages is the most I have ever written in my life, and I doubt I will ever get a masters degree because it really won't help me that much in the real world, as much as being professionally licensed will.

madfresh
Aug 3, 2007, 12:47 AM
I hate delays. :mad:

BKKbill
Aug 3, 2007, 02:54 AM
Well I don't know if I should even mention it but I'm still using windows office 2000 and am happy enough. So my question is do you think I should be examined? Still waiting for my iMac with leopard.

MacHiavelli
Aug 3, 2007, 06:13 AM
How big are your databases? I imagine they aren't that big if you can use Access for them. Most of the companies I have worked for had to use SQL Server or Oracle due to shear size and reliability concerns.

It would be a bit of a hassle but you could probably switch to Filemaker as it is cross-platform, has been around forever, and works great. I know it would be annoying to have to learn a different program, and convert existing records, but as you say, your Windows machines are annoying too. You could download the 30 day trial to see if this might work for you.

I haven't tried the database in NeoOffice but you might download that and see if it converts your databases over well. My experience with documents, spreadsheets, and presentations has been pretty solid so far with this suite. And as others have said, you can beat free.

Also, I hear MySQL is nice too. Here are some links to get you started:

Filemaker Pro Trial (http://www.filemakertrial.com/nskto/form/entry.aspx?ovmkt=32595CC9C36E4082917F5044E2FDDF15&WT.mc_id=32595CC9C36E4082917F5044E2FDDF15)

Neo Office Download Page (http://www.neooffice.org/neojava/en/maindownload.php)

MySQL Dowload Page (http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/5.0.html#macosx-dmg)

Thanks for the advice. I think the simplest thing in the end will be to buy Macs but run Parallels or similar to give access to Access. We've got 12 main databases - each with about 20,000 records doing different things. 5 are used on websites, so it would be a major pain to change all those as well.

macsmurf
Aug 3, 2007, 07:46 AM
Thanks for the advice. I think the simplest thing in the end will be to buy Macs but run Parallels or similar to give access to Access. We've got 12 main databases - each with about 20,000 records doing different things. 5 are used on websites, so it would be a major pain to change all those as well.

Just out of curiosity, how do you handle writes from multiple users? Microsoft Access didn't really handle that well last time I checked. If that isn't a problem, you probably shouldn't touch the databases, but if it is, that would be a case for migrating to a "proper" database. SQL server won't give you platform independence and it costs money. Oracle is painful to configure (at least from what I've heard) and it costs money. However, MySQL or (even better) PostgreSQL should suit your needs just fine, with regards to multiple write-access and scalability.

Access has its strengths when it comes to making fairly nice GUI interfaces reasonably fast, but platform independence, transaction safety, and scalability is the price you pay.

androvboy
Aug 3, 2007, 08:02 AM
A rather asenine comment if there ever was one.

If you are gonna use clever words, I suggest speeling them correctly.

notjustjay
Aug 3, 2007, 08:35 AM
Ah, I feel for you. I'm an Engineering major. Ten pages is the most I have ever written in my life, and I doubt I will ever get a masters degree because it really won't help me that much in the real world, as much as being professionally licensed will.

... in which case you would have used LaTeX for your thesis, anyway.

C'mon, all the cool engineering/science/math people use it... ;)

xUKHCx
Aug 3, 2007, 08:39 AM
... in which case you would have used LaTeX for your thesis, anyway.

C'mon, all the cool engineering/science/math people use it... ;)

Does that make me a wannabe then as i keep trying to get into LaTeX, I think the problem with me is that i try and get into it just before a major project when i need to spend my time writing rather than learning something new. However my last project was 250 pages long and had many many pictures, drawings, embedded excel files so not sure if LaTeX could handle it in a satisfactory way. (Chemical Engineering student BTW)

kingofkolt
Aug 3, 2007, 10:46 AM
bill gates doesn't care about mac people.

Haha, yes, because we all know he is personally responsible for this delay.

If I were Bill Gates, and you represented all "mac people," I certainly wouldn't be too concerned about mac people either.

CalBoy
Aug 3, 2007, 11:28 AM
Ah, I feel for you. I'm an Engineering major. Ten pages is the most I have ever written in my life, and I doubt I will ever get a masters degree because it really won't help me that much in the real world, as much as being professionally licensed will.

Don't feel sorry for me yet...say that when I go to law school!
As for your master's, go work for a company, and then see if they would be willing to pay for your education. More education will always help you advance and beat out others for promotions.

Anyhow, I think it's time to go and try a few free office apps:)

notjustjay
Aug 3, 2007, 11:40 AM
Does that make me a wannabe then as i keep trying to get into LaTeX, I think the problem with me is that i try and get into it just before a major project when i need to spend my time writing rather than learning something new. However my last project was 250 pages long and had many many pictures, drawings, embedded excel files so not sure if LaTeX could handle it in a satisfactory way. (Chemical Engineering student BTW)

Some would say that LaTeX would have been perfect for that task. It depends on what tools you're using to write it with, too (I use TeXShop on the Mac). I had a lot of diagrams when I wrote my thesis and I only had to export them as PDF files to get them into the thesis. It was a bit of a pain exporting all the figures into PDF but that was a one-time deal, and having it all in LaTeX saved me a lot of hassles when it came to pagination, formatting, figure headings, tables of contents and lists of figures, deciding whether to single- or double-space, etc. Best of all it handled my bibliography with aplomb. It was a bit of a learning curve, yes, but I actually ended up enjoying it much more than when I had it started with Word.

Part of what made it easier was that I could break out the chapters into separate TeX files and then used a parent document to include them. All the formatting was defined in the parent document so the chapter files were pure content. Made it much easier to see what I was doing, refer back and forth, and so on, without endless scrolling through one big Word document.

Actually, the final straw came when I had about 70 pages typed out in Word and for some reason the document got corrupted and refused to load (every time I tried to open the document, Word would immediately crash). I salvaged what I could from backups and decided this was a good time to learn LaTeX. :)

It's certainly not for everybody or for every situation, but it is very good at what it does and I thought it was well worth it for my thesis, and I would recommend it for anyone who is writing structured documents like academic papers, reports, theses, labs, especially if they contain lots of math. It helps if you have a programming mindset, because this is essentially what you're doing.

ingenious
Aug 3, 2007, 11:44 AM
I think Craig has heard the feedback loud and clear about Exchange support for Entourage being the #1 request and is working to do something about it. I read his blog and he seems to understand.

Anyone have the link to his blog? I'd be interested in reading it.


Anyway, yeah it's a bummer that it got delayed, but I feel the same way I did after they said Leopard would be delayed: It's better for it to be delayed than for us to have to deal with really buggy software. I'm glad to give the developers more time if it means I get a much better quality product in my hands.

Frosty1
Aug 3, 2007, 12:08 PM
figured it would be delayed, were talking about M$ here

Virgil-TB2
Aug 3, 2007, 02:03 PM
People shouldn't be so harsh on MS ... the quality of Office 2004 is a testimony to their dedication to the mac ... so give them a break!

As a writer, and as a long time user of Office on both platforms, I can tell you that this statement sounds like something out of Alice in Wonderland to me. Office on the Mac, especially MS Word, is a horrible program.

Office 2004 is a poorly designed, bug-filled POS in general and is far inferior both in stability and speed to Office on Windows (not that I would ever use Windows anymore). The current version of MS Office 2004 was buggy and bloated when released and has not been fixed in all the years it has been available.

The good news is that right now, this week, is the absolute *best* time in the last 10 years or so to introduce a full-fledged native replacement for Office on the Mac. Leopard is coming out in October and Apple is releasing new hardware across the board just previous to the new OS. If we are lucky, Apple has a revision of the Word Processor that uses ODF and can take on MS Word, and a spreadsheet that can do the same for Excel.

It will take MS the better part of 2008 to even *start* to ship applications that take advantage of Leopard, and all the applications they have now are years old, coded for the wrong processor, and full of bugs.

Now is the perfect time, (finally!) to give MS Office for Mac the gentle stab in the guts that it has been asking for all these years. That's what I am hoping for anyway.

Virgil-TB2
Aug 3, 2007, 02:33 PM
Haha, thanks for the laugh. :D

To familiarize yourself and better educate yourself regarding Apple's history of product delays and such, I suggest you follow Aiden Shaw's advice and look up Copland, Rhapsody and the like. Good reading. :cool:
Probably someone has already pointed this out but this comment and the identical one above it are misleading IMO.

The facts are true, but I find the intended comparison to MS's delays disingenuous and mostly irrelevant.

In the first place, these articles refer to a different "Apple Computer," almost a decade ago, under different leadership. Hardly reflective of the company we call Apple today.

Secondly, *all* companies have delays on their products, what we are talking about here really is the degree, how often they do it, and whether or not it's a part of the company culture.

So yes, during a period of massive company upheaval and the most serious financial downturn in it's entire history, Apple *did* kind of lost it's way and slip on delivering a new OS. Yes, this new OS was essentially "vapourware" in the same way that MS's new software offerings traditionally are. So what?

Simply because Apple had a (brief) period in it's lifetime where it replicated all the worst aspects of Microsoft's development habits, we are supposed to damn them for all eternity? We are supposed to throw up our hands and make out like Apple and Microsoft are essentially doing the same thing here? I don't think so.

Both previous to that time, and in the period since then, Apple has a very good track record for releases. Especially with the "new" Apple, they have scarcely missed a release date. OS-X, iLife and iWork are all on track and always have been AFAIK. Leopard's delay was the first such significant delay in a long time.

So while the information about Copeland is true, I think it's really quite over the top to try to use these facts to maintain that there is some kind of equivalency between the many shipping delays of MS's bug-ridden software and the (mostly) high-quality, (mostly) delivered on time Apple software.

Compare this to MS's constant, never-ending failures and delays and you have a *real* picture of what's happening.

Virgil-TB2
Aug 3, 2007, 02:45 PM
... Vista was a fresh rewrite (I'd like to see Apple try that one!)

Absolutely not true. You have no idea what you are talking about here.

... and they STILL managed to have incredible backwards compatibility, something Apple never could pull off.

Okay, now it's obvious you are smoking something here. :cool:
Put it in the ashtray and *think* a bit before you spew next time.

... MS products are constantly under attack from hackers, something Apple has never had to deal with because of their low marketshare, ...

Okay, so this marketshare jazz has been disproven how many times now?

... they also wanted to greatly enhance security which has resulted in a remarkably stable and secure environment. Coming up on a year with no major exploits. An incredible feat of software engineering. Eh?

Well, "Incredible" is actually a word that comes up a lot with Vista, (but probably not in the way you mean it.) :)

Virgil-TB2
Aug 3, 2007, 03:00 PM
Thanks for nothing, Microsoft. As far as I know, this is the *last* major app that hasn't gone universal, and frankly, Microsoft should have the most experience with coding Intel software. I can't believe this, but I guess I should have seen it coming.

I'd like to use NeoOffice out of principle, but I can't. Excel's not there yet. Weird syntax, too slow, and doesn't support my plug-ins. So I guess I'm stuck with Office v.X until January, but its good enough I suppose.

I agree.

I don't see how anyone can argue that the delays in Mac Office are anything but political ones. All the information they needed has been available for years and it's not like they didn't have the staff or the years(!) of development time. Compare this to the achievements of the people that make Parallels for instance, and in a much shorter time frame and with a much more technically challenging product.

I hate MS Word and have tried many alternatives over the years, but none come very close, which is kind of odd when you consider how bad MS Office for Mac is. AbiWord is great, but development is glacial and it still doesn't handle anything larger than a page or two without dying the death of a thousand processor cycles. NeoOffice is java-based, with a non-standard interface only a GIMP (user) could love. All the others have similar glitches or problems.

If you are still using Office v.X however, Office 2004 is a better choice. It's basically a bug-fix for the original Office v.X which is why Office 2004 should really be called "Office 2002." :)

Virgil-TB2
Aug 3, 2007, 03:17 PM
Just out of curiosity, how do you handle writes from multiple users? Microsoft Access didn't really handle that well last time I checked. If that isn't a problem, you probably shouldn't touch the databases, but if it is, that would be a case for migrating to a "proper" database. SQL server won't give you platform independence and it costs money. Oracle is painful to configure (at least from what I've heard) and it costs money. However, MySQL or (even better) PostgreSQL should suit your needs just fine, with regards to multiple write-access and scalability.

Access has its strengths when it comes to making fairly nice GUI interfaces reasonably fast, but platform independence, transaction safety, and scalability is the price you pay.IMO the best choice for conversion of most Access DB's is FileMaker. The "serious" Database guys on Windows don't use Access that much anymore, and those that do are, as you say, more concerned with the UI than advanced database "miracles."

FileMaker has the best layout tools around and makes Access look like a geeky retarded cousin. It also (now) has all the "serious" things that any database requires like tight integration with SQL and all the back-end stuff.

To the original poster, I would say that as long as the databases in question are fairly non-complex, a FileMaker conversion would not be that hard at all. The tricky parts are the integration with non-standard, non-open (i.e. - Microsoft) programs and servers. If it's a database that has to interface with some proprietary Exchange doo-hicky or whatever, then you are better off just dropping it when converting and starting from scratch. If it's anything at all standard or simple (employee records, invoices, product catalogues etc.), it can usually be easily re-made in FileMaker in very little time at all.

FileMaker reads and writes so many formats, that the data is pretty much never a problem, it's just the layout of the database itself and the reports that are going to take you any time. This is often a good thing as it gives you a reason to re-examine all of your business logic and procedures. Often you find out that you only need one database instead of three and that half the layouts and reports are useless and out of date. All in all a good exercise once you get through it.

tristan
Aug 3, 2007, 03:25 PM
Thanks for the reply. Yes, I guess I will have to "upgrade" to Office 2004 now... I was hoping to skip it and move directly to 2008 obviously. :(

BTW does anyone know whether 2004 locks multiple instances? I have two macs, both with Office v.X, and somehow it is able to scan the network and ensure that only one instance is running at a time. This leads to very frustrating situations as you can imagine - think about one computer waking up from sleep with an open document that I worked all night on.

EDIT: FYI I found the fix, so its no longer a problem on v.X. Still curious if the issue exists for 2004.

askripko
Aug 3, 2007, 06:44 PM
Can't wait for MS Office 2008 release, i LOVE Apple, but i have to admit that Bill's Office is best-of-the-best, nice job, no doubt...

Frisco
Aug 3, 2007, 07:56 PM
Okay let me summarize the truth in this thread:

1) Vista was a total rewrite and something Apple could never do. Totally false!

2) Office 2004 for Mac is a good or decent program. It sucks big time. Office for Mac will alway suck.

I am sure Jobs knows this and has some plans to change this. What that may be we can only speculate.

But please the posts that bothered me the most were the one claiming Vista/Office 2007 is a total rewrite and the ones claiming Office 2004 is a good suite. It sucks! Intel or not!

nsbio
Aug 3, 2007, 08:58 PM
It is funny how even the best word processing program sucks in reality. Word does suck, but there is nothing better than it, with the exception of some niche programs for niche individuals.

It is funny how such a basic task - word processing that works - still requires you to deal with bugs and inconveniences, sluggishness etc. Mellel almost makes it as a word processor. Tried it... nice interface and useability... but no tracking changes .... - another trialware goes into the trash and the despised Word is launched yet again (reluctantly). What is the point of all this gigabytes with gigahertz and blue teeth when even the most basic computing tasks are still painful???

Anyway, that was just a vent after my computer threw a kernel panic out of nowhere, but I feel better after venting.;)

AidenShaw
Aug 3, 2007, 11:18 PM
Probably someone has already pointed this out but this comment and the identical one above it are misleading IMO.

The facts are true, but I find the intended comparison to MS's delays disingenuous and mostly irrelevant.

The reply was to a post that said

Originally Posted by p0intblank
Apple has had delays, but none near the magnitude of Microsoft.

The Pink/Copland/Rhapsody links are certainly relevant to an open-ended comment like that. "Apple has had no significant slips" is pure BS, and must be corrected.

In fact, I suspect that not a few here would say that Apple should set ship dates according to product quality metrics, not according to SteveNote dates. Just scan these forums for "I'm waiting for 10.5.1" and similar posts.

These things go in cycles - in two years time it might be that Microsoft has been hitting deadlines and Apple has been missing every date (it won't be until November that we'll know if Apple hits the October promise for 10.5 - and whether its quality says that they should have slipped again).

Vista slipped big. OSX 10.5 has slipped (but not yet shipped). Copland suffered the infinite slip - cancellation. Rhapsody didn't have such a huge slip - but lots of people thought that OSX 10.0 should have been called a "public beta".

Anyone who tries to make a big stink about a particular slip will be wearing egg on the face soon enough.

xnu
Aug 3, 2007, 11:59 PM
I am really looking forward to the latest bloatware, because my business is dependent on the latest microsuck products. Well at least one product microsuck office, maybe Apple could finally update their suite to be competitive. You would think in year 2007 we would at least have some choice of a simple word processing program or spreadsheet, shouldn't be that difficult. Yeah, yeah opensource, neooffice, openoffice, whatever, only that certain things only work with Word, Word sucks, it is too complicated an crashes way to much, same with excel, which I am reliant on. Oh well, looking forward to paying for the upgrade for options I don't need just to stay compatible, hoping Apple will again wow me with something.

maccompaq
Aug 4, 2007, 07:28 AM
I am really looking forward to the latest bloatware, because my business is dependent on the latest microsuck products. Well at least one product microsuck office, maybe Apple could finally update their suite to be competitive. You would think in year 2007 we would at least have some choice of a simple word processing program or spreadsheet, shouldn't be that difficult. Yeah, yeah opensource, neooffice, openoffice, whatever, only that certain things only work with Word, Word sucks, it is too complicated an crashes way to much, same with excel, which I am reliant on. Oh well, looking forward to paying for the upgrade for options I don't need just to stay compatible, hoping Apple will again wow me with something.

I use MSWord, Excel, OpenOffice, NeoOffice, and they all work for me. I only use perhaps 5% of their functions. There are times when I cannot get one of these programs to do what I want, because I cannot find the function, so I have to revert to Microsoft Works or Appleworks. Thank God for powerful simple solutions.

GSMiller
Aug 5, 2007, 11:53 AM
I wasn't planning on upgrading from 2004 anyway (at least not soon).

pimentoLoaf
Aug 5, 2007, 10:06 PM
I read somewhere that it was supposed to look like Office 07 under Vista, but early testing had Mac-folk getting really angry for reasons unknown why would be people get upset it's only an interface that looks really neat under Vista shouldn't it be the same on the Mac?

:D:p:D

goosnarrggh
Aug 6, 2007, 08:00 AM
I just heard from a friend, who works at MS, that the main reason for the delay is Clippy the Paper Clip is being totally revamped with support for core image.

Thankfully, Clippit (along with all of the animated Office Assistants) have been permanently put out to pasture.

aafuss1
Aug 6, 2007, 08:07 PM
I wasn't planning on upgrading from 2004 anyway (at least not soon).


I'm still using v.X (and 2003 on a PC).

Microsoft Works has a portfolio feature that works like the OS 9 Scrapbook (very handy-Apple should add something similar to their suite )

Kawasaki
Aug 8, 2007, 11:28 AM
A delay from MS....who would have guessed?

kingofkolt
Aug 8, 2007, 01:31 PM
A delay from MS....who would have guessed?

It is quite strange really. So unlike them, and it really offsets all that good publicity they got from delivering Vista ahead of schedule.

aznsclboi
Aug 13, 2007, 03:34 PM
Okay... I use Office 2004, and I don't think it runs slow at all, I have a MacBook Pro 2.16 c2duo... it runs great, I do my work, it's stable and reliable, and well... I don't see what the fuss is.

I have iWork installed, but I can't seem to do the same spreadsheet work on Numbers that I need to do, that Excel seems to do well. Pages and Keynote are cool, but I still open Word more often then Pages. Sadly, I'm using iWork as a Open Office XML converter.

Maybe I'm confused, but why does everyone dislike Microsoft?