anybody else starting to see scooters on the roads?

[jng]

I nearly hit a jerk on a scooter this morning in my SUV. I was at a red light and he rode up against the curb cutting the line. When he turned green, he cut across me into the lane to my left. As I merged right onto a right, he decided he was in the wrong late and cut across me again! I hit the brakes and honked at him. He glared back.

What's wrong with that?
1 - he cut in line
2 - he didn't signal
3 - stupid scooters are faster than bikes, but not not fast enough to pull moves like that
4 - no license plates (he could report me but i can't report him)
5 - lame helmet - what if I had hit him?


Anyone else seen these in their cities (in the US)? They're really starting to bug me, mostly because there are no regulations on them. As far as I can tell, he didn't break any traffic laws/rules because there aren't any yet!

I've seen them in Europe and they're great in places like Germany and Denmark where there's regulations for them (they can't cut like that). But right now, they're angering me in Boston and I swear one of them is going to be hit, maybe by someone driving an SUV like me and they'll probably die and of course the driver of the SUV will be blamed. :rolleyes:

[PlaceofDis]

what kind of scooter are you referring to?
like this?:
http://www.hbpd.org/images/traffic_goped.jpg

if that kind. we have laws here against them for the most part. they can only be used on private property. so no streets or sidewalks.

[jng]

No, like Vespas. The scooters that are not motorcycles but not bicycles either.

http://www.vespausa.com/images/GTSintroduction.jpg

[shecky]

what's worse: a jerk on a scooter in a major US city or a jerk in an SUV in a major US city?

:)

note: not that you are a jerk, per se. but you see my point; id rather see a scooter than a Hummer navigating thru boston.

[Royale w/cheese]

Where I live (Midwest US) scooters like vespas have to be licensed and insured. You don't need to have the motorcycle endorsement on your drivers license for ones under 100cc's, I think, though.

And yes, I have been seeing A LOT of those things on the road lately. Mostly by old gray haired ladies and guys with shorts that look like hemmed pajamas.

I actually have an older one that I don't drive anymore, but I do think people should just get real motorcycles, they are not actually that worse on gas.

[PlaceofDis]

No, like Vespas. The scooters that are not motorcycles but not bicycles either.

couple of points then. they require helmets, signals, and plates.
they're able to go 40-60mph depending on the model. and are completely street legal, so i don't see what the problem is. yeah he was a bad driver. but you get that across the board. and i see them all over the place and they're always better than the motorcycles here.

[j26]

Actually they are motorcycles (albeit a bit small and weak for my liking) and you should treat them as such. I'd guess that they are subject to the same regulations as for other motorcycles.

They're more vulnerable than you in your SUV, so the onus is on you to take care and watch out for them. In 75% of collisions between a car and a bike, the car is totally at fault.

The basic rule? - respect ALL road users, and take account of the various strengths and weaknesses of the different types you encounter. That includes acknowledging that most moped/scooter riders are young/inexperienced, and may act unpredictably, and driving in such a way as to take account of that. I'm sure inexperienced people in cars do similar things all the time.

[raggedjimmi]

Not really, there have been scooters round for years.

I am seeing more Vespa's though, specifically in Greenfield.

[j26]

... I do think people should just get real motorcycles, they are not actually that worse on gas.

Some people like the low weight, small size, twist'n'go throttle, and the step through seat. In a city they're often more practical than a bike

Not me, mind - I likes my 1000cc v-Twin, but some do

[Royale w/cheese]

Some people like the low weight, small size, twist'n'go throttle, and the step through seat. In a city they're often more practical than a bike

Yeah, you have some points, they are a little better for commuting than pleasure riding.

[Queso]

I actually have an older one that I don't drive anymore, but I do think people should just get real motorcycles, they are not actually that worse on gas.
I'd rather the idiots stay on their scooters. Since they insist on parking as badly as possible in the bike ranks it's handy that they have a nice light vehicle I can move closer to the bikes/scooters next to them thereby creating another parking space for my ZZR600 :rolleyes:

Then again, it's possibly just because I'm parking up in an area of town near the Law Courts, and as we all know lawyers only possess book smarts and have no common sense.......


.....




.....;)

[joepunk]

I wouldn't mind seeing BMW make/sell those C1s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_C1) in the US.

[iKwick7]

what's worse: a jerk on a scooter in a major US city or a jerk in an SUV in a major US city?

:)

note: not that you are a jerk, per se. but you see my point; id rather see a scooter than a Hummer navigating thru boston.

i couldn't agree with you more- i'd rather a bad scooter driver than a bad suv driver- and there sure as hell are a ton of bad suv drivers in jersey.

My brother lives in boston- he's been wanting to get a scooter/vespa for some time.

[Royale w/cheese]

I actually like bad suv drivers, one woman totaled my 318 with her tahoe while it was parked and insurance gave me enough to get an even better one with money left over. As long as they don't kill anyone. :D

joepunk, those C1's are cool.

[adroit]

I actually have an older one that I don't drive anymore, but I do think people should just get real motorcycles, they are not actually that worse on gas.

That's not true. Unless you're talking about the cbr 125 (which really is just a scooter that looks like a bike).

I own both scooter and motorcycles and it cost $4/180 km on the scoot and about $20/300 km and most mortorcycles are a lot worse than that.

I find that the scoot serve a differnt purpose than the motorcycle, I prefer riding the scoot if I am just commuting or just going around town. Not to mention that I can wear skirts while riding and underseat storage is enough for a small grocery shopping trip. I use the motorcycle for longer rides or when I need to be on the highway.

[yellow]

No, like Vespas. The scooters that are not motorcycles but not bicycles either.

Yes.. all over the place.

The way I figure it, 80% of the ones I see are dudes who have so many DUIs that they cannot drive cars anymore.

[Azzurri15]

I wouldn't mind seeing BMW make/sell those C1s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_C1) in the US.


Those things are crazy; I see them all the time in Italy.

[pjarvi]

You shouldn't complain about motorcycles or scooters "cutting". Line riding in California is legal, for the simple fact that it's safer for the motorcycle rider. A lot of drivers don't notice motorcycles stopped behind other vehicles and/or come to a stop far too close to the rear of them, failing to leave a safe gap.

On the other hand, cutting across lanes in front of accelerating traffic is suicide, and he shouldn't have come up on the right hand side blocking right-turning traffic.

[Royale w/cheese]

That's not true. Unless you're talking about the cbr 125 (which really is just a scooter that looks like a bike).

I own both scooter and motorcycles and it cost $4/180 km on the scoot and about $20/300 km and most mortorcycles are a lot worse than that.

I find that the scoot serve a differnt purpose than the motorcycle, I prefer riding the scoot if I am just commuting or just going around town. Not to mention that I can wear skirts while riding and underseat storage is enough for a small grocery shopping trip. I use the motorcycle for longer rides or when I need to be on the highway.

That's the key phrase here, unless your talking about, there are extremes on both sides. They have 125cc bikes which you don't qualify as motorcycles apparently, but insurance and drivers licenses here in America definitely do, and they have 600cc scooters that you can drive with a regular license, and no superbike insurance premium.

But in my opinon, there is not that much difference in price at .06 a km and .02 a km, even though, I know, it adds up but tat is alot of commuting. I said THAT worse on gas. Not that motorcycles are better in gas. And I guess you missed my reply to j26.

[foidulus]

you are in an SUV and you think someone driving in a scooter, which gets about 6-7x as much gas mileage as your SUV and unlike your SUV doesn't pose a huge danger to everyone else on the road....


SUVs need to be banned, NOW!

[jng]

what's worse: a jerk on a scooter in a major US city or a jerk in an SUV in a major US city?

Being a jerk in an SUV won't get your killed as easily though. My major concern is that guy drove like a jerk, thought it was fine, and if an SUV killed him in that situation, the driver (me) would be to blame. Or at least the onus would be on the driver because of SUV driver stereotypes.

For the record, I drive a SUV because I worked at a restaurant and I often picked up supplies and these things are amazing in the snow.

couple of points then. they require helmets, signals, and plates.
they're able to go 40-60mph depending on the model. and are completely street legal, so i don't see what the problem is. yeah he was a bad driver. but you get that across the board. and i see them all over the place and they're always better than the motorcycles here.

They're not slow per se, but their acceleration is horrible compared to cars and no where near fast enough to cut across lines like the guy from this morning. They do require helmets, but I find them to be lamer than motorcycle helmets which offer better protection.


They're more vulnerable than you in your SUV, so the onus is on you to take care and watch out for them. In 75% of collisions between a car and a bike, the car is totally at fault.

The basic rule? - respect ALL road users, and take account of the various strengths and weaknesses of the different types you encounter. That includes acknowledging that most moped/scooter riders are young/inexperienced, and may act unpredictably, and driving in such a way as to take account of that. I'm sure inexperienced people in cars do similar things all the time.

See above re: onus.

Yes, inexperienced car drivers do that all the time. But if I hit a car in city traffic, it'd just be detail work. I doubt either of us would die. If I hit a guy in a tiny scooter with my toyota highlander and he's wearing a ****** helmet, I'm afraid he'd die or something.

You shouldn't complain about motorcycles or scooters "cutting". Line riding in California is legal, for the simple fact that it's safer for the motorcycle rider. A lot of drivers don't notice motorcycles stopped behind other vehicles and/or come to a stop far too close to the rear of them, failing to leave a safe gap.

On the other hand, cutting across lanes in front of accelerating traffic is suicide, and he shouldn't have come up on the right hand side blocking right-turning traffic.

I don't think it should be legal. In Europe from my observations they are required to follow the same rules as cars, with respect to parking, signaling, etc. They of course also drive better and allow spacing for bikes. Some countries like Denmark also had bike only lanes which I found fascinating.

Boston has narrow roads and with all the people who double park, cutting in line isn't the brightest thing to do.

I have also noticed that Germany had strict rules about lighting and how bright they have to be. Some of the models I've seen around Boston are just plain dim. And when you have BMWs and Nissans with giant white lights driving around, you hardly notice the little scooter (who doesn't even bother to signal). I see bicyclists with flashing reflectors easier than these scooter people.

[jng]

you are in an SUV and you think someone driving in a scooter, which gets about 6-7x as much gas mileage as your SUV and unlike your SUV doesn't pose a huge danger to everyone else on the road....


SUVs need to be banned, NOW!

Bah, grow up.

Here in the northeast, SUVs are great and sometimes a must. Let's see you drive in 2 feet of snow.

I hate tree hugging liberals who just attack everything single-mindedly. This thread is not about mileage. And if people want to ride scooters fine. But don't drive like a jerk at major intersections and when you're killed by a car, don't blame me for it just because your vehicle doesn't meet safety standards (in my opinion).

[yellow]

you are in an SUV and you think someone driving in a scooter, which gets about 6-7x as much gas mileage as your SUV and unlike your SUV doesn't pose a huge danger to everyone else on the road....


SUVs need to be banned, NOW!

I can't believe that we made it this far before getting this response.
Some folks have little choice but to drive SUVs. Personally, I find it very hard to fit my frame in small cars. They aren't built for tall people.

[raggedjimmi]

you are in an SUV and you think someone driving in a scooter, which gets about 6-7x as much gas mileage as your SUV and unlike your SUV doesn't pose a huge danger to everyone else on the road....


SUVs need to be banned, NOW!

I can see what you're getting at, but sometimes bigger and more powerful vehicles are needed. Though not all the time. We have some big Mercedes jeep-like thing (I really don't know much about cars :D ) for when the weather requires it. Otherwise we use a more environmentally friendly vehicle.

[foidulus]

I can't believe that we made it this far before getting this response.
Some folks have little choice but to drive SUVs. Personally, I find it very hard to fit my frame in small cars. They aren't built for tall people.

I'm 6'2"(180cm) and I ride a bike and even on the rare occasion I do drive I never seem to have any problems fitting in a normal car. There are even cars with more legroom that are still smaller and use much less fuel than an SUV. Those things need to be banned or slapped with a $50k "you are endangering everyone else on the road" tax.

[foidulus]

Bah, grow up.

Here in the northeast, SUVs are great and sometimes a must. Let's see you drive in 2 feet of snow.

I hate tree hugging liberals who just attack everything single-mindedly. This thread is not about mileage. And if people want to ride scooters fine. But don't drive like a jerk at major intersections and when you're killed by a car, don't blame me for it just because your vehicle doesn't meet safety standards (in my opinion).

Um, I grew up in the northeast and my family NEVER needed an SUV. We never had anything bigger than a taurus. You don't NEED an SUV just because you don't want to learn how to drive in snow.

Also, fine, I won't complain about SUVs killing innocent people who are sane if you don't mind me not giving a dime for your war for oil. Let's see how you like $15/gallon gas in your SUV. Doesn't sound too pleasant, but it is right around the corner. And that cackling sound you will hear when all the SUV drivers complain about how horrible it is will be me.

I've followed all road laws on my bicycle but I have almost been killed by idiots in SUVs multiple times. I have had 0 problems with smaller cars, who by the way have significantly smaller blind spots than SUVs and tend to have much better handling.

[d_and_n5000]

Um, I grew up in the northeast and my family NEVER needed an SUV. We never had anything bigger than a taurus. You don't NEED an SUV just because you don't want to learn how to drive in snow.

Also, fine, I won't complain about SUVs killing innocent people who are sane if you don't mind me not giving a dime for your war for oil. Let's see how you like $15/gallon gas in your SUV. Doesn't sound too pleasant, but it is right around the corner. And that cackling sound you will hear when all the SUV drivers complain about how horrible it is will be me.

I've followed all road laws on my bicycle but I have almost been killed by idiots in SUVs multiple times. I have had 0 problems with smaller cars, who by the way have significantly smaller blind spots than SUVs and tend to have much better handling.

Dude, get over yourself. Just because in your experience, you didn't need an SUV and because some people driving SUVs don't know what they're doing, doesn't mean that nobody has any use for them. Some like the extra space. Some like being higher up when they drive. Some need the passenger carrying. Some need the towing capacity. And maybe some just want them. So, as long as you're gonna drive it safely, I don't think that its my problem. And I don't see why it gets your panties in such a twist.

[SteveG4Cube]

I can see what you're getting at, but sometimes bigger and more powerful vehicles are needed.

Special permits for vehicles over a certain size/weight then. We don't need every soccer mom rolling around in a 3 ton monster.

[Queso]

I have no problem with SUVs or 4x4s in their proper setting, namely rural areas. However, anyone wanting to own one when they never leave the city should be taxed £20k a year extra.

[evilgEEk]

On topic:

I'm definitely seeing a lot more scooters in my town lately. I've been seriously considering getting one myself actually, although my car gets great gas mileage as it is (35ish in town), and from time to time I have the need to drive a client somewhere. I think that would be rather awkward if I was on a scooter. ;)

Off topic:

You anti-SUV people really need to lighten up and realize that there are idiots all over the roads whether they drive a little 4-cylinder car or a giant SUV, and either one is big enough to kill you in the proper setting.

My wife wants an "SUV" because as our family grows we need more room, and she refuses to get a mini-van. So sometime next year we will likely buy one for her, and she's literally the safest driver I know.

Get angry at the drivers, not the car those idiots drive.

[Roger1]

I see those things all the time. Usually the driver is weaving down the side of the road, shorts, tee shirt, sandals (or barefoot), and no helmet. I don't remember seeing any yakking on their cell phone. Oh, I haven't seen any of them licensed. I wonder if they need to be in Michigan?

[Ugg]

You shouldn't complain about motorcycles or scooters "cutting". Line riding in California is legal, for the simple fact that it's safer for the motorcycle rider. A lot of drivers don't notice motorcycles stopped behind other vehicles and/or come to a stop far too close to the rear of them, failing to leave a safe gap.

On the other hand, cutting across lanes in front of accelerating traffic is suicide, and he shouldn't have come up on the right hand side blocking right-turning traffic.


I didn't know that. It always freaks me out when I'm in Sacramento and see motorcycles zipping between lanes. I won't scream so hard next time I see one doing it!

There are a lot of scooters around here but the weather's perfect for scooters so not surprising.

I don't ride one but bicycle quite a bit. I hate SUV drivers, especially those who are less than about 5'8" tall. They simply can't see well enough. I almost got rammed yesterday by some tiny little soccer mom driving a big old excursion. SUVs suck and there's no way you'll convince me otherwise.

[OutThere]

I would say that the average city-downtown SUV driver is much more of a bother than the little Vespas. Driving in Manhattan I'd much rather have someone buzz past on a Vespa than take up 3 lanes in a Hummer or Excursion.

[adroit]

That's the key phrase here, unless your talking about, there are extremes on both sides. They have 125cc bikes which you don't qualify as motorcycles apparently, but insurance and drivers licenses here in America definitely do, and they have 600cc scooters that you can drive with a regular license, and no superbike insurance premium.

But in my opinon, there is not that much difference in price at .06 a km and .02 a km, even though, I know, it adds up but tat is alot of commuting. I said THAT worse on gas. Not that motorcycles are better in gas. And I guess you missed my reply to j26.

Wow, which state allow you to ride a 600cc scooter with a regular license. Having people who doesn't know how to ride a bike on a 600cc scooter around is definately not a place I would want to be in. FYI you also don't pay a superbike insurance premium if you ride a harley ;)

And apparently 3 times more in gas money isn't THAT different??? :eek: Where do you take your math course? I want to enroll there!

[cleanup]

Scooters are pretty much ubiquitous in Europe and Asia. Don't have to be in a big city to see tons of them either.

Glad to see the U.S. is finally catching up with the trend. Scooters are a good thing. They're single-person vehicles. Reduce emissions, spend less, save more. The fresh outta college graduate with his first job doesn't need a friggin' Dodge Charger. Sheesh.

I'm definitely planning on getting a scooter before I get my first car. Vespas are a bit expensive, but those Twist 'n' Go scooters (J.D. drives one on Scrubs) are very inexpensive and look fun to drive.

My jerk brother got an Acura TSX though. :rolleyes: I hope the gas prices kill him.

[mduser63]

I've seen more of them around here it seems like. I've even sort of considered getting one. My daily commute is only a 5 or 10 minute drive, but it's quite an uphill drive (on the way to work) and the roads are not at all accommodating for bicycles, but a scooter might work well.

I'm not for banning SUVs, but heavy taxes on them seem reasonable to me. For those that really need them (and I would argue that no one needs an SUV), there might be some way to get a special permit to avoid the taxes. Same kind of thing for pickup trucks over a certain size (I realize some people really need pickups). I saw a bumper sticker that I really liked the other day. It says "Draft SUV Drivers First".

[j26]

In Europe from my observations they are required to follow the same rules as cars, with respect to parking, signaling, etc. ....

Bikes filter everywhere whether it's legal or not. That's the main advantage of bikes over cars in city traffic, and not doing so means you've lost half the reason for getting a bike. People drive with more respect for bikes in Europe because they're more used to having them cutting through traffic. Ultimately your problem is with a bad driver, not a moped rider per se.

I'm sorta stunned with your apparently cavalier attitude (mentioned earlier) that its not so important if you hit a car. You should drive defensively at all times - which includes watching out for more vulnerable users and other cars, which sounds like something you may not be used to, judging from what you say in your posts. Crashing into something is not okay even if it is a car - what if a person in the car has a heart condition and dies as a result of the accident?

When I ride, I ride as if everyone else on the road is a complete idiot - I'm rarely pleasantly surprised. Ultimately if I die on the road, it will be because of an "Oops, didn't see you there mate" That's not an acceptable standard of driving.

[markfc]

That's not true. Unless you're talking about the cbr 125 (which really is just a scooter that looks like a bike).

I own both scooter and motorcycles and it cost $4/180 km on the scoot and about $20/300 km and most mortorcycles are a lot worse than that.

I find that the scoot serve a differnt purpose than the motorcycle, I prefer riding the scoot if I am just commuting or just going around town. Not to mention that I can wear skirts while riding and underseat storage is enough for a small grocery shopping trip. I use the motorcycle for longer rides or when I need to be on the highway.

HaHa, My first bike was a CBR125R, It was amazing, it did hundreds of miles on a full tank!! (Full tank was 11 litres)

[Queso]

HaHa, My first bike was a CBR125R, It was amazing, it did hundreds of miles on a full tank!! (Full tank was 11 litres)
Flash git!! Mine was a mid-80s CG125. It used to do just over 100mpg :)

Still, when I moved up from that to a 500cc it was a nice change being able to get to the top of a hill without slowing down :D

[Joshua8o8]

if you dont like people on " scooters " or " mopeds ", as im used to calling them, i would recommend staying away from Hawaii, or at leas Oahu. Haha. Of course im just playing, i was born and raised on Oahu and they have been around since as early as i could remember. Tourists love to rent them and ride around and check out the sites, the locals love to steal them from the tourists. Its really quite a site to see.

[jng]

Those things need to be banned or slapped with a $50k "you are endangering everyone else on the road" tax.

I should slap a "you are annoying me tax" on you. Yeah, that's how immature your argument is. SUVs are a fact of life in the U.S. Get over it.

Dude, get over yourself. Just because in your experience, you didn't need an SUV and because some people driving SUVs don't know what they're doing, doesn't mean that nobody has any use for them. Some like the extra space. Some like being higher up when they drive. Some need the passenger carrying. Some need the towing capacity. And maybe some just want them. So, as long as you're gonna drive it safely, I don't think that its my problem. And I don't see why it gets your panties in such a twist.

Thank you!

As for foidulus growing up in NE: that doesn't mean jack to me. For all I know, you could have grown up in Boston proper, where snow and driving isn't an issue. The major streets are plowed pretty quickly as are the highways.

FYI, I worked mostly on the north shore and when there's 2 feet of snow on the ground, having the extra traction and my favorite button "ECT Snow" makes a HUGE difference. The car just doesn't kick from side to side, especally hugging sharp curves on hill. Plus when you work at a restaurant 30 miles away and it's snowing like that, getting home in a car is a pain. Whereas most people will leave work early to avoid storms, I usually have to drive through them after we close.

When you drive in less settled areas or my favorite New Hampshire in the dark in bad weather, you're better off in an SUV in bad weather.

Would I love to save more energy and fuel? Yeah. Can I afford two cars? No.


You anti-SUV people really need to lighten up and realize that there are idiots all over the roads whether they drive a little 4-cylinder car or a giant SUV, and either one is big enough to kill you in the proper setting.

My wife wants an "SUV" because as our family grows we need more room, and she refuses to get a mini-van. So sometime next year we will likely buy one for her, and she's literally the safest driver I know.

Get angry at the drivers, not the car those idiots drive.


Thank you!. Btw, I recommend the Toyota Highlander with the Hybrid engine. I bought mine before they made hybrids, but my friend got one afterwards with the hybrid engine, a v6, and AWD. And actually the Hybrid gets better performance when accelerating because of the extra power from the battery. I think the V6 AWD takes about 15 mpg but with the Hybrid, it doubles up to about 30 mpg. You can get the model with extras for about $40k and it's totally worth it.

I've also driven a minivan and I definitely prefer a midsized SUV instead. It just doesn't feel as "fat" and wide as a mini van. Although the minivan is larger and you can carry much more stuff in it.


I'm sorta stunned with your apparently cavalier attitude (mentioned earlier) that its not so important if you hit a car. You should drive defensively at all times - which includes watching out for more vulnerable users and other cars, which sounds like something you may not be used to, judging from what you say in your posts. Crashing into something is not okay even if it is a car - what if a person in the car has a heart condition and dies as a result of the accident?

When I ride, I ride as if everyone else on the road is a complete idiot - I'm rarely pleasantly surprised. Ultimately if I die on the road, it will be because of an "Oops, didn't see you there mate" That's not an acceptable standard of driving.

If you read my post as a whole, you'll realize my point is that riding a scooter in a city like Boston is dangerous. In my opinion, it just doesn't meet safety standards. Boston has narrow streets AND bad drivers, who weave through traffic, double park and stop randomly and abruptly, and my favorite: open doors into traffic without looking.

My point is that there isn't any regulation of the scooters. They need license plates for one thing, in case an accident occurs, better helmets (more motorcycle-esque), better higher brighter signals, and most importantly rules in terms of how they drive.

I wasn't being cavalier about hitting someone. My point is that accidents happen in the city ALL the time. And if it's between cars, the chances of death are slim (absent road rage). And if it's between a car and a motorcycle, already bad enough. But between a car or worse an SUV an a scooter? Like a bicyclist, I think the scooter stands no chance. Especially against a bus. I saw a woman on a bike killed by an MBTA bus once in Cambridge and that freaked me out and made me realize that you just don't stand a chance (some jerk opened a car door and as there's no bike lane, she swerved into a bus). EXCUSE ME FOR TRYING TO SHOW SOME SAFETY CONCERNS FOR OTHERS WHILE YOU PEOPLE STEREOTYPE ME AND OTHERS JUST BECAUSE OF WHAT WE DRIVE.

[yellow]

I'm 6'2"(180cm) and I ride a bike and even on the rare occasion I do drive I never seem to have any problems fitting in a normal car. There are even cars with more legroom that are still smaller and use much less fuel than an SUV. Those things need to be banned or slapped with a $50k "you are endangering everyone else on the road" tax.


Frankly, riding a bike isn't an option. I don't have time to ride 60+ miles a day round trip to and from work.

I'm sorry to say, 4" is a big difference. 4" in height means you can fit in a coach class airplane seat, and I cannot. Want to point a car out to me that isn't completely uncomfortable and economical?

[Royale w/cheese]

Wow, which state allow you to ride a 600cc scooter with a regular license. Having people who doesn't know how to ride a bike on a 600cc scooter around is definately not a place I would want to be in. FYI you also don't pay a superbike insurance premium if you ride a harley ;)

And apparently 3 times more in gas money isn't THAT different??? :eek: Where do you take your math course? I want to enroll there!

Harley, Kawasaki, & Motobecane rider:) If you take the context, I know that it adds up, but for casual riding and commuting around town, the price of any motorcycle in gas compared to cars is very different, definitely much different then the price of cycles in any range. If you can afford the bikes, you can afford the gas. But it seems that the only thing you really want to do is argue, so enjoy yourself and have a nice day. :)

[Patrick425]

Yeah I see them ALL the time. I get super jealous when traffic will be at a complete standstill except for the people with scooters, who just drive right through

[LethalWolfe]

On topic,

Lots of scooters (and motorcycles, and bicycles) in Los Angeles and bad drivers are bad drivers. But like the OP said, a bad driver in a car could cause a fender-bender where as a bad driver on two wheels has a good chance of dying. Yes motorcycles, scooters, and bikes are more maneuverable than cars but doesn't mean people should drive them recklessly in traffic just because they can. That's a sure fire to cause an accident and cause piss off the drivers you are cutting off.


I don't ride one but bicycle quite a bit. I hate SUV drivers, especially those who are less than about 5'8" tall. They simply can't see well enough. I almost got rammed yesterday by some tiny little soccer mom driving a big old excursion. SUVs suck and there's no way you'll convince me otherwise.
I commute to work a few days a week on a bicycle as well as ride for recreation (about 50 miles a week) and I ride in the street (I don't like using sidewalks). As well as I can remember people driving cars have come close to clipping me much more than people driving SUVs. More SUV drivers seem to realize the size of their vehicle and don't try and pass me w/o giving space and trucks/SUVs are high enough off the ground that their side view mirrors will pass above my handle bars so the odds of me getting clipped (or of me clipping a parallel parked truck/SUV) are lower as well. I also being able to see the drivers. I can get visual cues (are they on a cell phone, do they seem distracted, etc.,) to help formulate if the driver is going to do anything "flaky" that may end up getting me killed.

Again, this is just my personal experience, but stupid people are stupid people. I'd rather a smart person pass me safely in an SUV than a stupid person hit me in Prius.


Lethal