Chaos Follows Controversial House Vote

[MacNut]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/08/03/politics/politico/main3130820.shtml
In a massive flare-up of partisan tensions, Republicans walked out on a House vote late Thursday night to protest what they believed to be Democratic maneuvers to reverse an unfavorable outcome for them.

The flap represents a complete breakdown in parliamentary procedure and an unprecedented low for the sometimes bitterly divided chamber.

The rancor erupted shortly before 11 p.m. as Rep. Michael R. McNulty, D-N.Y., gaveled close the vote on a standard procedural measure with the outcome still in doubt.

Details remain fuzzy, but numerous Republicans argued afterward that they had secured a 215-213 win on their motion to bar undocumented immigrants from receiving any federal funds apportioned in the agricultural spending bill for employment or rental assistance. Democrats, however, argued the measure was deadlocked at 214-214 and failed, members and aides on both sides of the aisle said afterward.

One GOP aide saw McNulty gavel the vote to a close after receiving a signal from his leaders – but before reading the official tally. And votes continued to shift even after he closed the roll call - a strange development in itself.

Whatever the final tally, acrimony quickly exploded between lawmakers on either side of the aisle as Democratic leaders tried to plot a solution, while parliamentarians on either side argued over protocol.

Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer, D-Md., eventually offered a motion to reconsider, according to floor staff on either side, ostensibly giving members a chance to recast their votes. But the maneuver sparked a chorus of angry protests from the Republicans, yelling “shame” on Democrats, while they returned fire with angry volleys of their own.

When Democrats finally moved to consider the spending bill as the last vote of the night, furious Republicans left the chamber en masse to protest the maneuver. The House eventually recessed at 11:18 p.m. But Republicans quickly discovered that there was no longer any record of the controversial vote and immediately charged Democrats with erasing the bad result.

“Obviously, the Democrats don’t want to stand up against illegal immigration – so much so that they’re willing to cheat in order to win a vote,” Rep. Patrick McHenry, R-N.C., said in an e-mail. “They’re desperate – and it shows.”

The official House website did not show a record of the vote as of 1 a.m. Friday.

[rdowns]

We just need to fire the whole lot of them. Bring in a bunch of noobs; they can't do any worse.

[leekohler]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see why we need to be giving money to illegal immigrants. It makes no sense to me. And I'm considered a "liberal" by some people here.

And before somebody goes off on me, I worked with illegals in the past when I was in the restaurant biz. Nice, hard-working folks, but I always tried to encourage them to become legal. It could be heartbreaking hearing the stories, but they still had options to get here legally.

I recently met some folks from Mexico City here for a visit. They told me that all the illegals who come across are the victims of racism. According to them, the more Native American you appear, the more you're discriminated against in Mexico. I see no reason to feed Mexico's racism against their own people.

We have immigration laws. We need to enforce them and hold Mexico accountable as well.

[solvs]

There's no way they erased the record.

If that's true and it still doesn't show up later, that's awful and I doubt anyone here will defend it.

[Desertrat]

Staying away from "good" or "bad" about the change in power from Republican to Democrat, in the House:

The deal of the campaign was "Change". So far, there has been little of substance and a lot of chaotic bickering. No change worthy of note. The Republicans are apparently dragging their feet--which is the usual tactic of the minority--and the Democrats don't have their act together.

This latter reflects upon the Democrats' leadership--which was expected and predicted. I'm sorry, folks, but it looks like Pelosi couldn't lead her way out of a wet paper sack. Positions of leadership are supposed to be based upon demonstrated competence at leading. She never showed that competence, but only a sort of popularity. Popularity and competence are not the same.

Look: I disagreed with many of Tip O'Neill's political views, but I darn sure respected his competence as the House leader. I don't have to agree with someone's views to respect their competence...

'Rat

[leekohler]

Staying away from "good" or "bad" about the change in power from Republican to Democrat, in the House:

The deal of the campaign was "Change". So far, there has been little of substance and a lot of chaotic bickering. No change worthy of note. The Republicans are apparently dragging their feet--which is the usual tactic of the minority--and the Democrats don't have their act together.

This latter reflects upon the Democrats' leadership--which was expected and predicted. I'm sorry, folks, but it looks like Pelosi couldn't lead her way out of a wet paper sack. Positions of leadership are supposed to be based upon demonstrated competence at leading. She never showed that competence, but only a sort of popularity. Popularity and competence are not the same.

Look: I disagreed with many of Tip O'Neill's political views, but I darn sure respected his competence as the House leader. I don't have to agree with someone's views to respect their competence...

'Rat

To be fair- the last congress didn't do much either 'Rat.

And you haven't heard too many people here happy with the current one either, have you?

[Desertrat]

I think my negative attitude toward Congress has been fairly obvious, these last several years here. :D Many good individuals on both sides of the aisles, in both houses, but as a group, Yuck.

I'm mildly amused, is all, from recalling a fair amount of commentary here about how good and wonderful a Dem victory would be, etc., etc. And the wonders Pelosi would perform...

'Rat

[Swarmlord]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see why we need to be giving money to illegal immigrants. It makes no sense to me. And I'm considered a "liberal" by some people here.

<snip>

I think I'm going to weep! I luv ya, man! Gotta give credit where credit is due. :)

[Thomas Veil]

Looks like the rancor from Thursday spilled over into today:

House Republicans claim Democratic fraud

WASHINGTON (CNN)— House Republicans emerged from a private meeting on Saturday and expressed their continued frustration with the Democratic leadership by accusing the Majority Leader Steny Hoyer of stripping comments he made on the House floor from that chamber’s official transcript.

On Friday evening Republican Leader John Boehner offered a resolution claiming that Rep John Murtha (D-PA) “brought dishonor and discredit to the United States House of Representatives by misusing the powers of the chair.”

Hoyer then stood up and declared, “Enough is enough,” to thunderous applauses by his fellow Democrats.

One day later, Hoyer’s declaration is missing from the Congressional Record, the daily journal of floor debate and action.

“We may be very close to where we have to think about maybe the NFL rule where you have instant replay where you can go and see what really happened on the House floor,” quipped Minority Whip Roy Blunt, armed with a dvd of the House floor debate in dispute and a copy of the official transcript. “The problem is we don’t have a referee.”

House members regularly change their floor statements by asking to “revise and extend” their remarks. A search of the House transcript found that single phrase was uttered at least six times by Democrats and Republicans on the House floor during Friday’s session.

“The journal is correct,” said a Hoyer spokeswoman. “This seems to be another attempt by Republicans to divert attention from our accomplishments and their lack of substantive ideas.”

Republicans interpret the power to self-edit floor remarks differently.

“The purpose of “revise and extend” is to clean up utterances and clean up language in a way so that future readers will understand. It is not to substantially revise the meaning and affect of your comments on the floor,” said Republican Conference Chairman Adam Putnam.CNN (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/08/04/house-republicans-claim-democratic-fraud/)

Perhaps Hoyer was choosing to be a jerk about this, but I hardly think the Republicans are in a position to complain.

Add to that the fact that Congress stayed in session because Bush suddenly just had to have a revision to the FISA law right before Congress was scheduled to recess. Convenient timing on Dubya's part, don't you think?

[obeygiant]

Convenient timing on Dubya's part, don't you think?

Well they don't call him the "superbad political ultragenious" for nothing. :)

[solvs]

I'm mildly amused, is all, from recalling a fair amount of commentary here about how good and wonderful a Dem victory would be, etc., etc. And the wonders Pelosi would perform...
Hm, I don't really remember that. I don't think anyone actually likes the Dems. Even the libs here. Actually, especially the libs here, who don't see the Dems as a very good opposition, or even alternative, to the Repubs. I know that's been something Lee and I have brought up several times, that it's not so much that we like the Dems, we just really, really hate what the previous Congress did (or didn't do in some cases). Especially their enabling of Bush. The Dems aren't much better, and though we hoped for better from them, I don't think we really expected much. And worse, we're still disappointed.

Those expecting wonders, if anyone did, must not have been paying attention.

(oh, and for the record, I never advocated giving illegals money either, I just argue that most of the time, we actually don't)

[mactastic]

Yeah, it's funny to listen to the party that held votes open for hours, threatened the family of Reps who didn't vote their way, and employed any other sordid tactic that could think of, suddenly complaining about perceived strong-arm tactics of the new majority.

Boohoohoo... Whaaaaaaa... What a bunch of WATBs in the minority.

And of course I'm always amused by the fair amount of commentary that has passed this forum about how wonderful it would be if only Republicans had control of all three branches of government; that THEN things would truly be well.

[Desertrat]

"...the fair amount of commentary that has passed this forum about how wonderful it would be if only Republicans had control of all three branches of government..."

That must been said before my time here, for sure, since I registered four years ago.

One-party control of the White House and Congress is bad. Gridlock is good. :D "No person's liberty or property is safe while the Congress is in session."

And Executive Orders should have a sunset provision. Hmmm. Most laws, as well...

'Rat

[mactastic]

"...the fair amount of commentary that has passed this forum about how wonderful it would be if only Republicans had control of all three branches of government..."

That must been said before my time here, for sure, since I registered four years ago.

One-party control of the White House and Congress is bad. Gridlock is good. :D "No person's liberty or property is safe while the Congress is in session."

And Executive Orders should have a sunset provision. Hmmm. Most laws, as well...

'Rat
Hmm... and all the musing about how wonderful it would be under a Democratic Congress must have been prior to 2003 when I joined...

You know, since we're making unsubstantiated allegations and all. Capische?

[solvs]

I honestly can't remember anyone every saying anything about how the Dems were going to fix everything. Just a bunch of people wanting change. Even more disappointed at the lack of progress and more of the same, even with the (very) little that has changed for the better.

Plus, I think you missed 'mac's point.