Civilization IV: Beyond the Sword

[ghall]

Hello all. Does anyone know when we can expect a Mac version of the Civ IV expansion, Beyond the Sword? It looks like it's a pretty cool expansion from what I've seen of the PC version.

[irishgrizzly]

Haven't heard anything about it, what makes it so cool then?

[ghall]

Haven't heard anything about it, what makes it so cool then?

:) Take a look. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_the_sword)

[irishgrizzly]

unfortunately CIV3 only just plays on my ibook, so I can't play this. Does CIV4 play a lot better then 3, gameplay wise? What are the major improvements?

I may get CIV revolutions on the 360 when it comes out.

[ghall]

unfortunately CIV3 only just plays on my ibook, so I can't play this. Does CIV4 play a lot better then 3, gameplay wise? What are the major improvements?

I may get CIV revolutions on the 360 when it comes out.

I'm not sure, I've never played Civ 3. I think the only major difference is that Civ 4 has religions. There could be other big differences, but I'm no expert on the Civ games.

Yeah, I just heard about that one today. Might get it for the DS.

[mathwhiz90601]

unfortunately CIV3 only just plays on my ibook, so I can't play this. Does CIV4 play a lot better then 3, gameplay wise? What are the major improvements?

I may get CIV revolutions on the 360 when it comes out.

Oooh, a fellow Civ 3 player! Does it run well in Mac OS X? Does it run well in Rosetta?

[yoda13]

Oooh, a fellow Civ 3 player! Does it run well in Mac OS X? Does it run well in Rosetta?

In my opinion, it does...:)

[jlbrown23]

unfortunately CIV3 only just plays on my ibook, so I can't play this. Does CIV4 play a lot better then 3, gameplay wise? What are the major improvements?

I may get CIV revolutions on the 360 when it comes out.

The biggest thing to me seemed like the graphics, which got a major boost(much nicer, zoom & rotate view, etc). But I don't think that the gameplay is all that different. Never played Civ 3 all that much, so I am not sure.

FYI, it plays fine on my MacBook despite the fact that it is supposedly beyond my system requirements. Of course runs a little better on my Hackintosh desktop, but that might be the 1600X1200 screen too...

[aLoC]

Beyond the Sword was a bit of a letdown I thought. It was so hyped up but unless you're playing the scenarios (and I just like the basic game) there's very little new in it.

There's corporations and improved spies and a few insiginificant new units. Based on the name "Beyond the Sword" I was expecting a whole swath of new present day/near future units. I was eagerly working my way up the tech tree wondering what would be new there are hardly anything.

[GarethBeaumains]

Civ IV is significantly more sophisticated than Civ III. There is a lot more nuance of where to build a city -- centered on the key resources of the world -- and it is far more important about how to do city placement. The overlap of "fat crosses" can be beneficial at times, but the game is designed to encourage players to not build "crowded" cities in a plan of CxxC or even CxxxC, but to give each city room to spread -- CxxxxC. Spamming cities across the world is also a sure way to drag your research into the floor -- a huge civilization is a huge cost burden. But there are ways to mitigate the cost of administration using courthouses to lower corruption.

The main difference is the "Great People" -- Great Prophets, Great Engineers, Great Artists, Great Merchants -- that can help by immediately discovering new technologies, or at least helping you much of the way to acquiring them, or they can add to a city's culture (artists), gold production (merchant), beakers (scientist), or hammer production (engineer). Two or more Great People of different types can also be consumed to produce a "Golden Age" in your empire, greatly changing the output for 8 turns. So you have choices. Do I consume the Great Person to get that immediate technology? Do I make them a "super specialist" and give myself the ongoing research edge? Do I take a Great Artist and drop them in a border city as a "culture bomb" to push the borders of my country further? Possibly to cause a few neighboring cities to "pop" and convert to my nation?

As mentioned, religions are also important. Who worships what is vital when making friends and enemies. Some leaders care far more than others . Isabella of Spain is very strident in keeping tabs on who's a heathen. Other leaders shrug slightly at the differences.

Lastly, units get experience now, and you can upgrade them over the eras. That original Warrior you got might get woodlands expertise at the dawn of time... then learn some city raiding during the Iron Age now upgraded to an Axeman, and then earn some combat stars as a Maceman. Moving into the future, they might be upgraded into a Rifleman, and finally, if you were good and lucky and they lived into the Modern Era, you'd have an unholy terror on the battlefield as Mechanized Infantry. Likewise, your cavalry units of antiquity can be upgraded into attack helicopters, carrying over whatever experience they earned during their earlier incarnations. The honor and elan of the regiment is passed down over the eras.

You can check out more of the specific comparisons at Apolyton.com (http://apolyton.net/) and CivFanatics.com (http://www.civfanatics.com/). But Civ IV is NOT Civ III+. A lot of fans of the older game have gotten quite a bit of shock when their old strategies were tried and failed utterly in the new game. It is far more subtle. And crafty!

There are also expansion packs for Civ IV. Civ IV: Warlords (ported to the Mac), which add Great Generals. And Civ IV: Beyond the Sword (not ported yet).

Warlords has been a hoot. if you generate a Great General, you have a choice -- attach the leader to a specific unit, giving that unit and all the units in its stack 20 experience to divvy out. If the leader attaches to a unit and it is alone, it by itself gets all 20 points, often making it a one-unit killing machine (mortal, of course; no one unit can pwn the board).

It also includes the strategic consideration of Capitulation and Vassalage. That big neighbor seem dangerous to you too? Knuckle under and become his willing vassal. The caveat? If they go to war, you get dragged into it. Be careful about becoming the vassal of an aggressive nation, or you might find yourself hauled into those wars you were not prepared for regardless!

On the other side, if you are a top dog in the world, you might find smaller nations wanting you to take them under your wing. It might be a good opportunity to accept their vassalage, and then to smite any nation that looks at your goslings with an evil eye! You'll make friends and enemies that way.

Likewise, if you smite a nation hard enough, it will offer capitulation, which is the same as vassalage, except the enemy leader is likely seething furious at you. Tough. Deal with it. Vassalage is better than extinction, yes?

Your happy vassals will often vote for things with you in the U.N. resolutions -- often a handy thing to rely on when going for a diplomatic victory.

Because all of this is in XML and Python, making expansions for Civ IV has added a whole world of opportunity for the fan base. I have played expansions for The Ancient Mediterranean (for Civ IV) -- 18 civs on a map spreading from the Straights of Gibraltar and Britain in the west to the edge of India in the east, and also Pirates! (for Warlords) -- where you, as Captain Morgan, can try your luck at making a pirate empire to rival England, Holland, France or Spain. These scenarios were entirely done by fans -- custom units, leaders, technology trees. And it was awesome!

Civ IV also has emphasized a multiplayer, Internet-savvy engine. You can go head to head with other players, and possibly mix in a few AI opponents. You and your buddy against an AI-controlled world! Or, join a network game and play team-on-team, or every-nation-for-itself with human opponents.

As for your Mac in specific, to quote the requirements: "Mac OS X 10.3.9 or later with a PowerPC G5/Intel 1.8GHz or faster system and a Radeon 9600 or GeForce FX 5200 video card." So it might not be the best on an old iBook.

[joemama2413]

i have civ 4 running on my bc partition with warlords and beyond the sword, no more wait, but rebooting is a pain

Edit: A recent copy of PC Gamer had a list of good Civ4 and Expansions mods, check them out if you can get a copy or i can post them and where to find them if you like

[marclapierre13]

man, i really want that expansion! itd make the game soooo awesome!

[clmason]

Wow, looks like it's finally coming!

http://www.aspyr.com/product/info/108

About f-in time!

[Cougarcat]

Amazing, after all this time! Especially considering they just released CIV IV gold. You'd think they'd just wait and release a complete version.

Given the expansion's age, let's hope the price matches the PC version (19.99). I'm almost certain they'll charge thirty bucks for it though.

[Bakerman]

About f-in time!

Absolutely! After playing countless hours of Warlords, it's finally gotten a bit stale.

I had given up on a Mac version of Beyond the Sword...

[Keleko]

There likely won't ever be one. However, Civ IV with all expansions plays just fine using Crossover Games for me. I bought it with Steam and installed it that way.

[Dr.Pants]

Beyond the Sword coming to Mac?

No. NO! NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!

I'm buying a PowerMac G5 for productivity not gaming!

Sorry, I've spent far too many hours since I was little playing the series. I didn't even know Civ was on the Apple. Well, now that I do, I'll just have to resist temptation.

Still, I've been playing Civ when I was 6-7. I remember playing Civ 2 on a 1 GHz processor and 3dFx 5000 graphics card and thinking that was the ****.

Anyways, getting back on-topic, is it just me, or is expanding once you're in the Industrial and Modern Ages prohibitively expensive?

[Cougarcat]

There likely won't ever be one. However, Civ IV with all expansions plays just fine using Crossover Games for me. I bought it with Steam and installed it that way.

Um, there is a mac version coming...did you see the link 3 posts up?? BTS IS coming to the mac. That's why we're so excited!

[Keleko]

Oh, I missed that link. I was thinking it was speculation from years ago, since the thread is really old.

[AtomicEdge]

Horror!

The link above (http://www.aspyr.com/product/info/108) no longer works, and there is no mention of BTS on their website...

I hope they didn't pull the plug on it...

[txa1265]

Horror!

The link above (http://www.aspyr.com/product/info/108) no longer works, and there is no mention of BTS on their website...

I hope they didn't pull the plug on it...

On the IMG forums May 14th, Brad Oliver said:
Also, I apologize for the way the Beyond the Sword expansion is being teased as teasing isn't the intention. I believe we were hoping to do a splash when the game was effectively on trucks and on the way to stores, which is a difficult path to take with so many companies involved. It's nearing the end of development now. I'll ask about the press release situation with it, but I think the intention is to put one out once it's GM. In lieu of an official PR for it though, we could give it a codename too: "Poorly-Kept Secret". :-)

[pepsihound]

Its now listed on Amazon.com as coming out in July. It is available for pre-order...and its about bloody time!!:D:D:apple:


http://www.amazon.com/Civilization-4-Beyond-Sword-Mac/dp/B0028J4X9U/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1245353444&sr=8-2

[txa1265]

On a side note, the newest PC Civ IV patch removes the CD-check. Wonder when we'll get it for Mac.

[gmfeier]

Shipping now. :D

[Cougarcat]

Shipping now. :D

That's funny, Aspyr hasn't even formally announced it on their website.

[gmfeier]

That's funny, Aspyr hasn't even formally announced it on their website.

Absolutely correct. As ridiculous as it sounds, they can't. They apparently have not received permission from one of the other companies involved in the porting process. Meanwhile, Amazon has shipped my order and others. It's here:

http://www.amazon.com/Civilization-4-Beyond-Sword-Mac/dp/B0028J4X9U/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1243568441&sr=8-2

[Cerebrus' Maw]

I run Civ IV and all the exps under Bootcamp on a baseline Macbook. With the graphics turned down a bit, runs fine. Having a great time with multiplayer.

Tried under Fusion, but no dice.

[Cougarcat]

Absolutely correct. As ridiculous as it sounds, they can't. They apparently have not received permission from one of the other companies involved in the porting process.

But...Aspyr has to have the other companies sign off on the GM version before it goes to manufacturing, right? Makes no sense!


I run Civ IV and all the exps under Bootcamp on a baseline Macbook. With the graphics turned down a bit, runs fine. Having a great time with multiplayer.

Tried under Fusion, but no dice.

I have heard the game runs well in Crossover (especially the steam versions) but I have yet to try it.

[gmfeier]

But...Aspyr has to have the other companies sign off on the GM version before it goes to manufacturing, right? Makes no sense!


The signoff they need is apparently on the announcement, not the game. Makes no sense to me either, but there it is.

[Brad Oliver]

But...Aspyr has to have the other companies sign off on the GM version before it goes to manufacturing, right? Makes no sense!

That's right. They approve most aspects of the game, just (in this case) not all at the same time. ;)

[gmfeier]

That's right. They approve most aspects of the game, just (in this case) not all at the same time. ;)

I have this feeling I'm being followed... :eek:

[Cougarcat]

That's right. They approve most aspects of the game, just (in this case) not all at the same time. ;)

Ha. Well I hope they don't suddenly disapprove of something. Kind of late now. :)

I was wondering, does BTS require the CD to play? I haven't bought a physical Mac game in a while (Steam purchases mostly, and I got the downloadable CoD4 for Mac when it was on sale a few months ago) and I've been quite spoiled not having to mess with CDs. I noticed that the latest PC patch of BTS removed the CD check, and it would be great if this is the case on the Mac!

[Cerebrus' Maw]

I have heard the game runs well in Crossover (especially the steam versions) but I have yet to try it.

Yeah, I heard the same and was considering it. But I was in EB Games and the the All in One Package was for like $25 for the Windows version. Since I had BC already installed and running I just said, 'Meh', and got it.

Considering the amount of grief Mac users can get with games, I admit it was pretty impulsive. :b

[Zortrium]

I was wondering, does BTS require the CD to play? I haven't bought a physical Mac game in a while (Steam purchases mostly, and I got the downloadable CoD4 for Mac when it was on sale a few months ago) and I've been quite spoiled not having to mess with CDs. I noticed that the latest PC patch of BTS removed the CD check, and it would be great if this is the case on the Mac!

Given that the most recent patch just came out, we know that the current shipping version of Mac BTS won't have it applied -- thus, I think we can be sure that the CD will be required. The question is whether the CD check will be removed from the Mac version once the latest patch is released. While it would certainly be nice, I could also understand why they wouldn't opt to do that since the Mac release is brand new. Usually CD checks are removed on older games after piracy is less of a concern. In the Mac case, of course, the game is just starting to be sold, so anyone who'd try to pirate it would be doing so now.

Strange as it sounds, I'm almost hoping that the CD check WON'T be removed, at least not initially. I'd pretty much given up on Aspyr getting around to porting BTS so long after it's been released, but since they followed through with it after so long I'd like their efforts to be rewarded. This, combined with a lot of would-be pirates moaning about the understandably high price of the Mac version compared to the PC counterpart, makes me less hostile to a bit of extra copy protection for awhile.

[rj-300zx]

Funny thing is no matter what if a pirate wants to pirate a game he will do so wether there are CD checks or not. In the end, DRM and CD checks don't affect the piracy rate as much as the people selling the game would like to think. I personally don't like CD checks but I understand them and I'm against piracy. Im one of those people who is stretched between digital distribution and physical media as well. All part of being raised in a materialistic society i guess.

[Zortrium]

Funny thing is no matter what if a pirate wants to pirate a game he will do so wether there are CD checks or not. In the end, DRM and CD checks don't affect the piracy rate as much as the people selling the game would like to think.

This is true -- after a certain point. The key thing is that CD checks and the like at least delay an easily-pirated copy of the game from getting to the web. This prevents casual piracy, which is critical right after a game is released, as is the case here. The issue isn't so much making the game unpiratable as it is making it take awhile before a pirated copy is available, thus gaining sales from all the people who would pirate if it was easy, but don't want to wait long enough for a pirated version to become available. After awhile as passed (and, presumably, a cracked copy is floating around), then it makes the most sense to remove things like CD checks from the legal copy of the game, since at that point the only sales you'll make are from honest people anyways.

[Brad Oliver]

In the end, DRM and CD checks don't affect the piracy rate as much as the people selling the game would like to think.

I've read so many forum threads about piracy and inflated numbers from both sides that I was beginning to give up hope that either side had any hard data to back up their claims. It sounds like you've cracked that statistical nut, right? ;)

[txa1265]

I've read so many forum threads about piracy and inflated numbers from both sides that I was beginning to give up hope that either side had any hard data to back up their claims. It sounds like you've cracked that statistical nut, right? ;)

I think when looking across genres and games and so on it is always hard to make comparison, but looking at Spore as the 'most pirated game of 2008' (supposedly) and comparing it to the (again supposedly) lower pirating rate for non-DRM Stardock games ...

[jursamaj]

I've read so many forum threads about piracy and inflated numbers from both sides that I was beginning to give up hope that either side had any hard data to back up their claims. It sounds like you've cracked that statistical nut, right? ;)

We don't actually need "hard data" on how much piracy actually happens, or whether those pirates would have bought if it was impossible to pirate, or anything like that.

Spore for Mac is the perfect illustration of the uselessness of copy protection: It was available for pirate download a week *before* retail release. Clearly, the copy protection didn't stop the piracy at all.

If anything, a few people were tempted into downloading it in that week or two before the distribution system could get it to them.

[SkipperStyle]

I have Civ 4 installed on my MB, but have lost the original CD. Does Beyond the Sword require that you insert that CD before it installs?

[Cougarcat]

I don't have BTS yet, but Warlords didn't require your original CD. As long as it finds the install on your hard drive, you're fine.

[sonofmof]

Hi Guys,

I have a new..ish... 24" iMac with 2.66 processor and a 256mb 9400 onboard graphics.

I've never felt that I have an issue before with other games, I play wow and it seems fine (although others may say I don't know what I'm missing) but the experience with BTS seems to be quite poor.

if i run the game in 1920 x 1200 everything has to be turned off otherwise the 3d face models all seem to corrupt.

if i lower the res i can increase the quality to medium, but am I truly crippled by the 9400 ?

Which settings are you guys using ?

[Coalman]

Hi Guys,

I have a new..ish... 24" iMac with 2.66 processor and a 256mb 9400 onboard graphics.

I've never felt that I have an issue before with other games, I play wow and it seems fine (although others may say I don't know what I'm missing) but the experience with BTS seems to be quite poor.

if i run the game in 1920 x 1200 everything has to be turned off otherwise the 3d face models all seem to corrupt.

if i lower the res i can increase the quality to medium, but am I truly crippled by the 9400 ?

Which settings are you guys using ?

Try turning off anti-aliasing. I think it's a quirk with the nvidia driver for the game.

[sonofmof]

That Works !!


Thanks Coalman

:-)

[spqrclaudius]

How do I solve the aforementioned problem? I don't know how to turn off anti-aliasing on a mac.

[clmason]

How do I solve the aforementioned problem? I don't know how to turn off anti-aliasing on a mac.

It's a setting *in the game*. Just check the options within the game and you'll find it.

[spqrclaudius]

Thanks--that solved the floating head problem...

But how do I fix the problem with the Rhyse and Fall Scenario? I can't start as any of the later historical civilizations--the game forces me to start them all off in the stone age.

[clmason]

Thanks--that solved the floating head problem...

But how do I fix the problem with the Rhyse and Fall Scenario? I can't start as any of the later historical civilizations--the game forces me to start them all off in the stone age.

Ah, can't help you there, haven't tried that.