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MacRumors
Aug 7, 2007, 12:28 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

While we await "media" coverage for Apple's announcement today, here's a non Apple option to explore...

With all the iPhone hype, there's been some notable criticisms and limitations, and if you are on the fence, there is at least one interesting alternative.


http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/08/07/helio_300.jpg


Helio.com (http://www.helio.com/) offers an interesting phone called Ocean (http://www.helio.com/?#devices_ocean) which they describe as "The ultimate mobile machine".

The Ocean offers a dual-slide design, providing both a traditional alphanumeric keypad as well as a full QWERTY keyboard. It also offers 3G network capability, MMS, video recording, built in flash, Google Maps with GPS and Instant Messaging capabilties -- all notably absent on the iPhone. The Helio costs $295.

Helio is clearly positioning the Ocean as an iPhone alternative with their comparison chart (http://compare.helio.com/) detailing the differences between the Ocean and iPhone.

Obviously Mac integration and web browsing can't compare to the iPhone, but if messaging is a high priority for you, the Ocean looks like a viable alternative.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/iphone-alternative-helio-ocean/)



Zwhaler
Aug 7, 2007, 12:29 AM
I read about this awhile ago on mobiledia.com. I don't really think it is a full blown iPhone alternative, but it is nice.

edit: I didn't know iPhone couldn't take video! That really sucks, I take videos all the time on my phone. It is actually quite a nice phone for the price.

Royale w/cheese
Aug 7, 2007, 12:30 AM
Meh. Wow, thats the first time I ever typed that. Not as fulfilling as I thought it would be.

poppe
Aug 7, 2007, 12:31 AM
It's a nice phone for sure, but a completely different market to me... The ocean is not sleek and savy. It does suck to see all those awesome features for so cheap though....

Peace
Aug 7, 2007, 12:31 AM
That thing is ugly.Period.

massiv
Aug 7, 2007, 12:33 AM
Hmmm... someone please tell me that this is not blatant advertising money switching hands here. This is straight from a sell sheet from Helio. What's up with this Arn? Am I not on MacRumors.com?

Not sure about all of you guys but I am kind of shocked at MR. I can keep an open mind while on Endgadget but this is not why I read MR. This kinda sucks.

*/ This is lame */

=)

zflauaus
Aug 7, 2007, 12:33 AM
I actually got to play with the Ocean two months or so. It was activated or on, but the slider did look pretty good, was stiff so it would slide around a lot when you use it. I'm 6' 4" and have average size fingers for my height. I don't have "sausage" fingers, but for me the keys were a little small, but it typed real well.

Erix18
Aug 7, 2007, 12:34 AM
The company is going downhill its the next ampd

Smurfed
Aug 7, 2007, 12:34 AM
For this case:

Function > design.

awesome phone though, i'd get that over the iPhone.

P.s. Ignore all the obvious apple fanboys above this post.

jsnyd05
Aug 7, 2007, 12:35 AM
It has nice features but no "wow" factor.

No other phone has the "wow" factor like the iPhone does.

I can't believe how many people have come up to me and have just been in awe of the iPhone, it has great functionality and is the most visually impressive phone ever.

The Ocean will never get that sort of attention.

Nice price tag though for all of those options.

-J Snyd

Sent from my iPhone

arn
Aug 7, 2007, 12:36 AM
Hmmm... someone please tell me that this is not blatant advertising money switching hands here. This is straight from a sell sheet from Helio. What's up with this Arn? Am I not on MacRumors.com?


No. No advertising money was exchanged.

Hey... if I were on a plane to SF to report on a certain Media event... then I'd be too busy to explore this sort of thing. :)

(fyi, this is a "real" story. debate the merits of the iphone vs the helio. This site's never been about fan-boy-ism, as much as enthusiasm about apple products. despite what people think, this is not an ad, the timing is not about pettiness, maybe a little bit of humor, and a few other reasons mixed in)

arn

WorthBak
Aug 7, 2007, 12:36 AM
an advertisement? for a non-apple product? on macrumors? that's very weird... that was a very fishy story. :confused:

P-Worm
Aug 7, 2007, 12:37 AM
It doesn't have WiFi, but the comparison chart silently looks past the fact that WiFi provides a significant speed boost to 3G if you are in a WiFi area.

P-Worm

caliguy
Aug 7, 2007, 12:37 AM
Hopefully some of these comparisons can be addressed through simple software updates. Of course things such as built-in flash camera and 3G are out of the picture, but I'm still hoping Apple will take these software updates seriously.

syklee26
Aug 7, 2007, 12:37 AM
This whole thing reads like an advertisement.

WorthBak
Aug 7, 2007, 12:38 AM
haha so arn, basically you're just bitter you didn't get an invite to the media event? understood ;)

BWhaler
Aug 7, 2007, 12:39 AM
Seems like a paid ad.

Arn, any comment? I hope for the best, as I would hate to see MacRumors become what happened to MacDailyNews.com (which is disgraceful in their ad placement at this point.)

Either way, I've used the Ocean, and it sucks.

Peace
Aug 7, 2007, 12:39 AM
arn's ticked off because he wasn't invited to the Stevenote so he's doing this.

Just an opinion..:)

caliguy
Aug 7, 2007, 12:39 AM
No. No advertising money was exchanged.

Hey... if I were on a plane to SF to report on a certain Media event... then I'd be too busy to explore this sort of thing. :)

arn

Ah, it all makes sense now :)
I'm with you on this story. Apple should've invited MR.

kungming2
Aug 7, 2007, 12:40 AM
I don't get it. This has nothing to do with the Mac at all... Or with the iPod, and only a shred of comparison to the iPhone. I'm really confused now... :confused:

chr1s60
Aug 7, 2007, 12:40 AM
I don't know about Helio. The phone sounds cool, but doesn't have the greatest looks. I have never known anyone with Helio nor have I seen more than one or two people with it in person. I think I would pass on anything with them until they are a bigger company.

the future
Aug 7, 2007, 12:40 AM
I agree that this "article" looks completely like an advertisement for Helio. And it doesn't belong here in the first place as it's not Mac/Apple-related at all.

What next? "Articles" about Dell boxes - as "iMac alternatives"??

Flowbee
Aug 7, 2007, 12:41 AM
I agree that this post seems a little out of place on the MacRumors front page (or even as an 'official' MacRumors post).

I also agree that Arn should have been invited to the Apple 'special event.'

Peace
Aug 7, 2007, 12:42 AM
I agree that this "article" looks completely like an advertisement for Helio. And it doesn't belong here in the first place as it's not Mac/Apple-related at all.

What next? "Articles" about Dell boxes - as "iMac alternatives"??

If that starts to happen my $25 contribution stops.

massiv
Aug 7, 2007, 12:42 AM
No. No advertising money was exchanged.

Hey... if I were on a plane to SF to report on a certain Media event... then I'd be too busy to explore this sort of thing. :)

arn

Ahhh... a little bitter are we? I can sympathize with you to a degree but I don't appreciate being used as ammunition against Apple. This is pretty low though. You must be pissed.

Now that I think about it this is pretty tacky and juvenile. MR lost some points in my book tonight. Where did that other site go? (http://www.engadget.com)

mduser63
Aug 7, 2007, 12:42 AM
To me the Ocean is a perfect example of what it is that Apple has that other companies lack. In a feature chart, and even in advertisements, it looks great. But it's missing the design, attention to detail and user interface that Apple has. Without those, all the features in the world don't make it appealing to me.

That said, if the iPhone didn't exist, I probably would get an Ocean. It may not be excellent (like the iPhone) but it's pretty good compared to the other phones out there.

bretm
Aug 7, 2007, 12:43 AM
no wifi and no web browser. A completely different product. Really expensive testing device.

rikers_mailbox
Aug 7, 2007, 12:43 AM
** tomorrow's Apple Event coverage is brought to you by Helio, makers of the Ocean.

Now back to your regular Apple-related programming...

kungming2
Aug 7, 2007, 12:43 AM
I also agree that Arn should have been invited to the Apple 'special event.'

Me too. :(

p0intblank
Aug 7, 2007, 12:44 AM
It's as if MacRumors was paid for this article.

devilot
Aug 7, 2007, 12:45 AM
Of course things such as built-in flash camera and 3G are out of the picture...Not to mention GPS. :o I don't often stray outta my comfort zone and I know GPS would likely be of great benefit and a great selling point to a lotta folks if the iPhone had it.

And I agree with mduser63, that if people bother reading some reviews on the Ocean and other "comparable" products, people inevitably come to the conclusion that even if the iPhone lacks some features, it definitely packs a punch w/ it's user interface/ OS.

hesdeadjim
Aug 7, 2007, 12:45 AM
Not to jump on the bandwagon, but Arn this does definitely seem out of place, especially the large image. At best, this seems like a Macbytes article. Admittedly, the Ocean has some interesting features and I'm open to debate about the pros and cons of the iPhone but I hope this article isn't a harbinger of things to come.

blankleader
Aug 7, 2007, 12:45 AM
In context, this "news" item comes across as a petty and childish move by the admins.

ariza910
Aug 7, 2007, 12:47 AM
No. No advertising money was exchanged.

Hey... if I were on a plane to SF to report on a certain Media event... then I'd be too busy to explore this sort of thing. :)

arn

So whats the deal with a non MAC product on MacRumors? This has nothing to do with MACs, why not post this on the iPhoneBlog page.

Just happens that a post about the Helio Ocean shows up the day before an Apple event? when traffic is up on the site... something is up for sure.

Is someone bitter about Engadget getting an invite?

this is really lame - I would expect better from MacRumors

ErikGrim
Aug 7, 2007, 12:49 AM
Is it just me or does this and the previous post smack of bitterness over not being invited to a certain media event? (partly confirmed by arn's reply in this thread)

Awaiting "media" coverage?

Really Arn, show that you are above such petty traits and keep MR professional.

Edit: I see that it wasn't just me :P

arn
Aug 7, 2007, 12:51 AM
Really Arn, show that you are above such petty traits and keep MR professional.

It's not really pettiness. The timing was really intended to be humorous more than anything. :) Feel free to debate iphone vs helio. It is a serious post.

arn

kellen
Aug 7, 2007, 12:51 AM
WTF?

Though I hit the heliorumors button instead of the macrumors button.

Tell me you are getting something out of splashing that thing across the front page? Even if its just personal satisfaction or retribution.

minik
Aug 7, 2007, 12:51 AM
Am I on the wrong site?

I still prefer a candybar form factor. Helio has always made me think of the teeny MySpace.

Smurfed
Aug 7, 2007, 12:53 AM
It's not really pettiness. Was really intended to be humorous more than anything. :)

arn

This just proves that most people on here think that..

Internet, serious business.

iBookG4user
Aug 7, 2007, 12:53 AM
I think I'll stick with my iPhone, it at least has a touch screen.

Pikemann Urge
Aug 7, 2007, 12:54 AM
Reminds me of the Sony Mylo. Sure I'd prefer an iPhone. But hey it's always helpful to see how other people do things, right?

And I think some of us here are acting a little immature with accusations of pettiness on the part of MR admins etc. We need to lighten up a little. :)

megfilmworks
Aug 7, 2007, 12:56 AM
I do not like the form factor.

ariza910
Aug 7, 2007, 12:57 AM
QUOTE=Flowbee]
I also agree that Arn should have been invited to the Apple 'special event.'
Me too. [/QUOTE]

Me too. :(

No he shouldn't - hes running a rumor site, not a news site - if he starts getting invited to Apple events or gets any special treatment at all from Apple then it opens the possibility that Arn will start to censor or not release certain rumors just so that he doesnt jeopardize his relationship with Apple.

While Apple loves hype and attention they still hate leaks and rumors - I am not surprized that Arn wasnt invited.

Keep up the good work Arn - all your readers appreciate it!

Flowbee
Aug 7, 2007, 12:57 AM
Well, in the absence of any good leaks, I guess that following this controversy will be a good way to pass the time between now and the Apple announcement.

arn
Aug 7, 2007, 12:59 AM
While Apple loves hype and attention they still hate leaks and rumors - I am not surprized that Arn wasnt invited.

Despite what people think, I'm not surprised either. We've never been invited to Apple media events, and doing so could introduce some conflict of interest. (ex. should I post this new rumor, or will apple pull our media pass). That being said, sites like Engadget and Gizmodo run Apple rumors all the time.

arn

mahonmeister
Aug 7, 2007, 12:59 AM
I think it would be cool if more direct comparisons like this were done with Apple products. Or, it might even be fun to have the editors and admins collaborate an official review of new Apple products and post them on the front page; then we could debate the review in the comments.

Otherwise I have no idea why this is being posted.... except maybe to smite Apple. O.o

oscarfrancis
Aug 7, 2007, 12:59 AM
Yeesh, I'm a little surprised by how superficial some of the posters in this thread seem... the idea of features not mattering when compared to the looks of your gadget... good grief, fanboys will do anything to justify being happy without standard capabilities like IM or video recording. If it's usability we're talking about, well, that's a little different, but all the usability in the world won't matter if your device doesn't do what you want it to in the first place.

kungming2
Aug 7, 2007, 12:59 AM
No he shouldn't - hes running a rumor site, not a news site - if he starts getting invited to Apple events or gets any special treatment at all from Apple then it opens the possibility that Arn will start to censor or not release certain rumors just so that he doesnt jeopardize his relationship with Apple.

While Apple loves hype and attention they still hate leaks and rumors - I am not surprized that Arn wasnt invited.

Keep up the good work Arn - all your readers appreciate it!

Neither am I surprised, rather, it's the sentimental side of things. Arn has done so much work for MacRumors that it'd have been nice if he was invited to go.

p0intblank
Aug 7, 2007, 01:00 AM
While we're talking about the iPhone, check out this debate on YouTube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8upbWrHOJs

Flowbee
Aug 7, 2007, 01:00 AM
No he shouldn't - hes running a rumor site, not a news site

Both Engadget and Gizmodo were invited. They'll post just about any ridiculous rumor that's emailed to them.

AHDuke99
Aug 7, 2007, 01:01 AM
Not to mention GPS. :o I don't often stray outta my comfort zone and I know GPS would likely be of great benefit and a great selling point to a lotta folks if the iPhone had it.

And I agree with mduser63, that if people bother reading some reviews on the Ocean and other "comparable" products, people inevitably come to the conclusion that even if the iPhone lacks some features, it definitely packs a punch w/ it's user interface/ OS.

GPS can be done using the SIM card. there are ways it can be implemented without certain hardware. whether apple choses to do it is a whole different story.

i think tomorrow's announcements will be new imac, mac mini and macbook speed bumps. i am holding out for ichat for iphone being released as well... but i dont expect it.

Avicdar
Aug 7, 2007, 01:01 AM
Wow, if this isn't a thinly veiled swipe at Apple for not being invited to the event, I don't know what is.

Thats too bad.

queshy
Aug 7, 2007, 01:02 AM
It looks so...ugly.

features seem nice, but they missed out big time on the design.

SeaFox
Aug 7, 2007, 01:05 AM
The company is going downhill its the next ampd

Hey, someone here pays attention to what happens in the cell phone world.

If anything, the fall of ampd only highlights why you shouldn't take a MVNO as your cell phone carrier. They have no major assets. A regular cell phone company never goes out of business, because they have towers and retail stores. At the worst, someone buys them out and you end up with a cell phone carrier you may not want to be with. But you don't get any interruption of service. When your MVNO goes out, you're hung out to dry.

People who have rebates due from Ampd may never get them and must now file claims with the company handling the bankruptcy liquidation. Where they may get their money, or a portion of it. Since the focus is going to be to pay back the major financial backers for Ampd first, they probably wont see their money. If Ampd could pay back all their debts, they wouldn't have been bankrupt to begin with obviously.

ksz
Aug 7, 2007, 01:09 AM
Yeesh, I'm a little surprised by how superficial some of the posters in this thread seem... the idea of features not mattering when compared to the looks of your gadget... good grief, fanboys will do anything to justify being happy without standard capabilities like IM or video recording. If it's usability we're talking about, well, that's a little different, but all the usability in the world won't matter if your device doesn't do what you want it to in the first place.
Hasn't this been debated to death? It's not a matter of fanboyism; the iPhone suits me very well. I owned a Sony Ericsson K800i 3G phone for about a year and gave it up in a heartbeat. I never used MMS, never used the video camera, never used the internet access (too expensive for data) and a terrible web browser, never used the built-in MP3 player (extremely cumbersome to use), never looked at photos or videos on it, etc.

The iPhone does not have MS Exchange support, but my company has Outlook Web Access which comes through very nicely on the built-in Safari.

Your needs may vary and for that there are a hundred other models to choose from.

As for the phone that is the topic of this thread, no thanks...not by a long shot.

Matthew Yohe
Aug 7, 2007, 01:10 AM
No. No advertising money was exchanged.

Hey... if I were on a plane to SF to report on a certain Media event... then I'd be too busy to explore this sort of thing. :)

(fyi, this is a "real" story. debate the merits of the iphone vs the helio. This site's never been about fan-boy-ism, as much as enthusiasm about apple products.)

arn


Be that as it may, the first impression most visitors will get is that it is in fact an ad. You made non emergent iPhone stories go into their own iPhone subsection, yet this isn't even an Apple product and it gets top billing.

While this won't turn people away from the site, unless things are changing, it is not a submission that is on message.

Also, don't call it a phone

MarkMS
Aug 7, 2007, 01:12 AM
Meh. Wow, thats the first time I ever typed that. Not as fulfilling as I thought it would be.

"Meh."

Yeah typing that word doesn't feel as fulfilling.


"I can has iphone alternative?!"

Now that feels a bit better.

Anyway, I don't think MR is doing the following:

1. Advertise Apple alternatives
2. ???
3. Profit

Peace
Aug 7, 2007, 01:13 AM
Ok I've changed my mind..

Even though MR posts a LOT of rumors that often come very true Apple gets free publicity out of it.I'm sure there's a certain line one shouldn't cross to keep that conflict of interest from biting MR in the behind and that's probably a deciding factor in Apple not ever inviting MR to events.Apple KNOWS MR has a wide viewership though and uses that.So..

Even if arn's reason was "humerous" I'll stand up and say "HEY APPLE" MacRumors is people too.Not gonna invite arn? fine Take this!!

Front page ad for an alternative to Apple's biggest show right now the iPhone.

Too bad it gives what,in my opinion is an inferior device that same publicity.

sonictonic
Aug 7, 2007, 01:15 AM
What is this, macalternatives.com? :confused:

heliorumors.com? :confused:

...didn't think so. I really don't think this "story" should be on this site. If I want to look into the helio or some other non-apple product, I'll go to their respective sites. I come here for MAC and APPLE stuff! :mad:

Badandy
Aug 7, 2007, 01:16 AM
People need to get a sense of humor and calm down. Seriously. Losing respect for MacRumors? Thought Arn was better than this? The site is going downhills?

IT'S A JOKE. No wonder Windows users think we (the mac community) are stuck-up pricks. It appears as most of us are.


Take a joke people, it's funny if you step off your internet high horse...

netdoc66
Aug 7, 2007, 01:17 AM
Arn, open a site called macfacts and post the rumors after they've become facts. Instant news site! :)

Telp
Aug 7, 2007, 01:19 AM
I gotta say, as far as a comparison chart goes, that one is very poor. True, it goes into what people want to know about it, but all it does is take what the iphone doesnt have, and say the ocean does have it. It doesnt go into battery life, video, music, screen resolution, all the stuff like that. Very good marketing if your going for the young oblivious consumers.

blankleader
Aug 7, 2007, 01:19 AM
People need to get a sense of humor and calm down. Seriously. Losing respect for MacRumors? Thought Arn was better than this? The site is going downhills?

IT'S A JOKE. No wonder Windows users think we (the mac community) are stuck-up pricks. It appears as most of us are.


Take a joke people, it's funny if you step off your internet high horse...

It's a revealingly unprofessional joke that is sure to make it even harder for MacRumors to get any respect when Apple media events come up.

Westside guy
Aug 7, 2007, 01:27 AM
Well, I hate to post something marginally on-topic here, but...

Anyone notice that this Helio has AAC support? It's nice to see that, thanks to the iPod/ITMS, AAC support has been spreading of late (even that evil empire player can handle it). MP3 was great in its day, but "its day" should've been over a while ago - AAC is certainly a superior codec.

... counting the minutes until the first Ogg fanboi replies to this ... :D

Royale w/cheese
Aug 7, 2007, 01:27 AM
Well, I have never heard about this HeliPhone before, thanks arn! I am going to go click every ad on every page in Macrumors.com!

<tabs start flying everywhere>

es2mac
Aug 7, 2007, 01:28 AM
I thought it'd be worth taking a look at the discussion for this and... what's going on. Now I really respect arn for overlooking all the flame baits thrown by those who's got very strong opinion on how MR should be.

Avicdar
Aug 7, 2007, 01:28 AM
People need to get a sense of humor and calm down. Seriously. Losing respect for MacRumors? Thought Arn was better than this? The site is going downhills?

IT'S A JOKE. No wonder Windows users think we (the mac community) are stuck-up pricks. It appears as most of us are.


Take a joke people, it's funny if you step off your internet high horse...

For anyone to really "get" the joke, they would have to have been following a couple of recent threads/posts very closely and seen the bits of subtle whining by the admins that they were snubbed for this event.

Not to mention the not-so-subtle reference by one of the admins to the Alexa rating for this site, and the implication that Apple should be somehow grateful for all the free press. (which is naive, considering Apple probably prefers their secrets to remain so and the vast majority of the traffic here is probably the mac faithful anyways).

Those who haven't combed those threads are just going to see this big ad for the Ocean at the top of the page - how is this funny again?

Like someone else said, this isn't going to be a big deal in the end. Macrumors is still one of the best sites of its kind and this won't likely change anyones habits of visiting.

Doesn't make this any less surprising though.

knelto
Aug 7, 2007, 01:30 AM
Both Engadget and Gizmodo were invited. They'll post just about any ridiculous rumor that's emailed to them.

Exactly. Engadget caused the whole $4 billion stock drop with a rumor, and they mostly just repost from other news sites anyways.

mashinhead
Aug 7, 2007, 01:32 AM
an advertisement? for a non-apple product? on macrumors? that's very weird... that was a very fishy story. :confused:

yeah this is definately odd. It's so random and out of place. Especially since there are macrumors to discuss. its not like there is slow news. it's not even remotely mac related.:rolleyes:

kungming2
Aug 7, 2007, 01:33 AM
Someone dugg this article with a big headline "Macrumors Shows an Ad for Helio's Ocean on Their Frontpage?"....

link (http://digg.com/apple/Macrumors_Shows_an_Ad_for_Helio_s_Ocean_on_Their_Frontpage)

:cool:

The Tuck
Aug 7, 2007, 01:33 AM
Why the **** is there an article about this? Lots of phones from lots of cell phone companies have similar features to the iPhone. Pointing one of them out among a sea of these devices seems pointless to me.

Stridder44
Aug 7, 2007, 01:34 AM
This whole thing reads like an advertisement.

No kidding.


How can anyone here think this is anything but an ad??

Matthew Yohe
Aug 7, 2007, 01:34 AM
MacRumors.com mission is to be one of the best and most respected rumors site on the net. It currently does this and is very good at bringing in many hits.

The problem I see with this "nudge" to Apple is that is is unfounded. You are literally undermining Apple's advertising efforts with your superior rumors yet you expect Apple to invite you to their party.

Why do gizmodo and engadget get passes and you don't? I think you know very well why:

"Now I think Gizmodo and Engadget do a great job in general, but they’ve never been a reliable source of original Apple rumors."
-- arn's blog (http://normalkid.com/2007/08/05/newsflash-people-make-up-rumors/) August 5th


You're right, they are not as good as MacRumors in reporting original, legit rumors. They simply report news and rumor runoff from other sites, and draw in quite the crowd while doing so. Inviting MacRumors to an Apple event would be like inviting ThePirateBay to a movie premiere!

Is this making any sense?

In your latest blog entry you stated you want to maintain the integrity of MacRumors:

"If we posted every submission that sounded at all plausible, we would lose a lot of respect from our regulars."

I think there is a lot of weight in that last bit there. Don't lose your way.

Badandy
Aug 7, 2007, 01:34 AM
It's a revealingly unprofessional joke that is sure to make it even harder for MacRumors to get any respect when Apple media events come up.

Get a life. You must be joking now. If not, you are in dire need of something humorous in your life.


I think there is a lot of weight in that last bit there. Don't lose your way.

It. is. a. joke.

MacinDoc
Aug 7, 2007, 01:40 AM
I gotta say, as far as a comparison chart goes, that one is very poor. True, it goes into what people want to know about it, but all it does is take what the iphone doesnt have, and say the ocean does have it. It doesnt go into battery life, video, music, screen resolution, all the stuff like that. Very good marketing if your going for the young oblivious consumers.
That's the problem with comparison charts - whoever makes them can decide what is compared. For example, an iPod/(other mp3 player that will remain nameless) might mention that you can't get the iPod in brown... :rolleyes:

If Apple made the comparison chart, it would mention that the iPhone has superior battery life, a full-featured browser, a touch screen, visual voicemail, much faster and cheaper data connections when in a WiFi hotspot, intuitive controls, seamless connection your Mac, and the fact that it is compatible with the world's number one music download store, iTunes.

And, of course, the fact that it has a drop-dead look and feel to it...

Just too bad we can't get the iPhone in Canada. I suppose I could look into the Helios, but the data plan would be outrageous...

Darkroom
Aug 7, 2007, 01:42 AM
their comparison chart is so boasting and misleading (not possible to IM with iPhone? yeah right, etc.)

plus, it's ugly as sin...

theperson
Aug 7, 2007, 01:42 AM
haha arn, you kidder.

wait.. this post was a joke, right?

blankleader
Aug 7, 2007, 01:45 AM
Get a life. You must be joking now. If not, you are in dire need of something humorous in your life.



It. is. a. joke.

You win. Thanks to you, I realize there is absolutely nothing to read into this weird MacRumors post that runs any deeper than a shallow joke.

Just for you, I just ordered a life. It's supposed to arrive Wednesday — if FedEx can pull it off.

iBlue
Aug 7, 2007, 01:45 AM
MacRumors.com mission is to be one of the best and most respected rumors site on the net. It currently does this and is very good at bringing in many hits.

The problem I see with this "nudge" to Apple is that is is unfounded. You are literally undermining Apple's advertising efforts with your superior rumors yet you expect Apple to invite you to their party.

Why do gizmodo and engadget get passes and you don't? I think you know very well why:

"Now I think Gizmodo and Engadget do a great job in general, but they’ve never been a reliable source of original Apple rumors."
-- arn's blog (http://normalkid.com/2007/08/05/newsflash-people-make-up-rumors/) August 5th


You're right, they are not as good as MacRumors in reporting original, legit rumors. They simply report news and rumor runoff from other sites, and draw in quite the crowd while doing so. Inviting MacRumors to an Apple event would be like inviting ThePirateBay to a movie premiere!

Is this making any sense?

In your latest blog entry you stated you want to maintain the integrity of MacRumors:

"If we posted every submission that sounded at all plausible, we would lose a lot of respect from our regulars."

I think there is a lot of weight in that last bit there. Don't lose your way.

wanted to quote this for posterity, good post.

maknik
Aug 7, 2007, 01:46 AM
Just add a "/snark" to the end of the post, and then all should be clear.

MacinDoc
Aug 7, 2007, 01:46 AM
You win. Thanks to you, I realize there is absolutely nothing to read into this weird MacRumors post that runs any deeper than a shallow joke.

Just for you, I just ordered a life. It's supposed to arrive Wednesday — if FedEx can pull it off.
Don't you mean "iLife"? ;)

mdntcallr
Aug 7, 2007, 01:46 AM
well, the helio ocean has many things i wish the iphone had:

Apple, please get with these features:
- 3G
- 3+ megapixel camera with flash, also expansion memory card
- slide out full keyboard (virtual keyboard is well not great for full use)
- SMS messaging with media, both pics and video
- lnstant messaging
- centralized mailbox/messagebox - to keep all the incoming messages in one place. instead of switching to check different mailboxes.
- push email, to receive messages when received by server, ie blackberry.
- more than one key on the front panel, ie like helio ocean, add a couple more buttons.

hell, it would be great if apple would certify more programs to run on it, and not handicap it to only do programs via Safari.

Royale w/cheese
Aug 7, 2007, 01:48 AM
But how does the Helio compare to these?

Darkroom
Aug 7, 2007, 01:55 AM
i admire this "rumour" as being passive-aggressive towards apple... very clever... apple should invite macrumors to their media events.

Sbrocket
Aug 7, 2007, 02:04 AM
i admire this "rumour" as being passive-aggressive towards apple... very clever... apple should invite macrumors to their media events.

Yes, clever in the manner than making friends with someone's enemy/competition is a good method to make friends with them.

This article is disappointing. I thought MacRumors was a higher quality site than to stoop to this, not to mention posting something obviously posed to cause regulars to loose confidence in MR. :(

Steve45
Aug 7, 2007, 02:05 AM
While I agree that MacRumors as a rumor site should not necessarily be there, the function that macrumorslive plays during one of these presentations seems reason enough to have someone there doing a live blog. I know that the other sites may have one still but I personally have found this one to be the best.

Steve

Shotgun OS
Aug 7, 2007, 02:13 AM
....Bwahahahahahahahahaaaaaa!
That's great. It made my night. Now, when I wake up, I hope new iMacs/iPods/iGadgets will be available.

synth3tik
Aug 7, 2007, 02:17 AM
I saw one of those at a record store. ugly looking bugger if I might say so.

panamajack
Aug 7, 2007, 02:18 AM
their comparison chart is so boasting and misleading (not possible to IM with iPhone? yeah right, etc.)



*GASP* A comparsion chart that favours their own product ?¿? Shocking!

Actually, the Helio folk seem to like the iPhone ... in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if all the iPhone hype has been good for Helios bottom line.

Clearly, they're going for a different sort of device here that focuses more explicitedly on communication and web 2.0 functionality (with the My-lame-Space intergration) than the iPhone, which excels primarily as a mobile web-browser and its iPod media viewing slickness. Not having IM built in is indictative of this.

I wonder if Helio's lack of success to date wasn't a major factor in Apple not starting up an MVNO instead of working exclusively with AT&T. [Doesn't Helio's service operate with two different mobile vendors?]

Intriguing device, too bad neither it nor the iPhone is available up in the frigid mobile landscape of Canuckistan.

MacinDoc
Aug 7, 2007, 02:22 AM
*GASP* A comparsion chart that favours their own product ?¿? Shocking!

Actually, the Helio folk seem to like the iPhone ... in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if all the iPhone hype has been good for Helios bottom line.

Clearly, they're going for a different sort of device here that focuses more explicitedly on communication and web 2.0 functionality (with the My-lame-Space intergration) than the iPhone, which excels primarily as a mobile web-browser and it's iPod media viewing slickness. Not having IM built in is indictative of this.

I wonder if Helio's lack of success to date wasn't a major factor in Apple not starting up an MVNO instead of working exclusively with AT&T. [Doesn't Helio's service operate with two different mobile vendors?]

Intriguing device, too bad neither it nor the iPhone is available up in the frigid mobile landscape of Canuckistan.
Come on now, Canuckistan? Any backwater former Soviet republic has better mobile service options than Canada. :rolleyes:

superted666
Aug 7, 2007, 02:23 AM
This is way higher spec than the iphone!

Yes its not as pretty and the interface of the iphone is better but im not sure those 2 points would make up for its instant messaging/gps/3g and qwerty keboard!

haunebu
Aug 7, 2007, 02:26 AM
I have an Ocean and LOVE it! Helio is such a tiny company compared to Apple, but they put out a product that's better in a lot of ways and less expensive - you have to respect that!

Good job, Helio! Thanks Arn for letting everyone know about this. I'm sure it'll even raise a few eyebrows at Apple and encourage them to play catch up to Helio :D

law guy
Aug 7, 2007, 02:27 AM
No. No advertising money was exchanged.

Hey... if I were on a plane to SF to report on a certain Media event... then I'd be too busy to explore this sort of thing. :)


arn

Thought so. ;) Apple didn't invite MR to the event. This gives them (Apple) a good reason to do so in the future - keeping Arnold from suggesting alternatives to the faithful.

MacFly123
Aug 7, 2007, 02:28 AM
Hmmm... someone please tell me that this is not blatant advertising money switching hands here. This is straight from a sell sheet from Helio. What's up with this Arn? Am I not on MacRumors.com?

Not sure about all of you guys but I am kind of shocked at MR. I can keep an open mind while on Endgadget but this is not why I read MR. This kinda sucks.

*/ This is lame */

=)

I totally agree... I kept an open mind and checked it out, but what the he11 is this doing on here??? He even said in the post.... well while we wait.... is this just some crap you put up because there was nothing else to talk about??? lol Come on, seriously....

suneohair
Aug 7, 2007, 02:35 AM
I have new for some of you... This isn't your site. Make your site and post what you want. Who cares if he posted this no matter what the reason!? Get over yourselves and lighten up. Jeez. Big babies the lot.

Laglorden
Aug 7, 2007, 02:39 AM
After years and years (seems that way...) of iPhone hype... Arn posts one article suggesting that the iPhone isn't better that all the alternatives at everything and all the "bois" goes ******* "HOW DARE YOU DEFILE OUR BELIEFS, blasphemer!!!1111!!" (more or less, but with suggestions of "money changing hands" and so on...

There are (probably) more than hundred different phones that are "better" than the iPhone in one way or another (certainly better price/performance for most people), try not to take it personally... ;)

offwidafairies
Aug 7, 2007, 02:44 AM
Hey... if I were on a plane to SF to report on a certain Media event... then I'd be too busy to explore this sort of thing. :)


So MR has the *****??

macam
Aug 7, 2007, 02:44 AM
Hi... I'm going to look at it this way...

If I was out and a hot looking chick asked if I could borrow my phone... and I pulled out a Helios Ocean. She would instantly know that I'm a geek and would never ever stand a chance...

If I pulled out an iPhone (And I hope it is released here in the UK soon cause I'm getting impatient!) She would look somewhat impressed! I know this (even tho I don't have one yet) because all the girls I know are asking about when the iPhone is going to be released (I work in the telecoms industry) because they really like it and they think it's pretty etc etc.

So regardless of what the functions of either phones, I would still choose the iPhone as at least I would have a 'chick repellant' device in my pocket (or backpack looking at the size of it!!!!)

Macam

offwidafairies
Aug 7, 2007, 02:46 AM
But how does the Helio compare to these?

wow. old skool. my dad used to have one of the 1st mobile phones out - he had to carry it in a briefcase!

gedto
Aug 7, 2007, 02:54 AM
It bothers me quite a lot to see this advertisment-slash-"rumor?" as the main post on the first page.

What the hell is going on with this site?

Anawrahta
Aug 7, 2007, 03:03 AM
Hey Arn, at least you're comparing the iPhone to an actual competitor, and not something like...oh...say a Blackberry 8700..*cough* AI *cough*.

But seriously I think Helio has some potential, the only thing that phases me as already mentioned is that it's a bit of a beast.

Some other good alternatives I think are the 83XX series blackberries and the HTC TyTn or whatever it's called.

SamL
Aug 7, 2007, 03:08 AM
A straight up copy and slow post off of MarketMatador.com

Check out the article @: http://www.marketmatador.com/2007/07/24/who-knows-helio/

BWhaler
Aug 7, 2007, 03:09 AM
Worst. Article. Ever.


Nothing further to debate. Let's just hope this is not the beginning of a trend here at Macrumors.

mapnet
Aug 7, 2007, 03:09 AM
Helio did not tell the whole story there...

1. The Ocean doesn't have WiFi, forcing you to use only the cell network to transfer data. 3G data coverage is only avalible around citys, and where there is no 3G or standard data (which is most of the US - see attached map) you have no data at all and can only use the phone's voice services.

2. They neglected to explain that unlike the iPhone, which uses a GSM/GPRS modem for its long range communications, the ocean uses CDMA-2000/EV-DO, a closed and dieing standard avalible only in the US and Korea, rendering the Ocean useless in the entire rest of the world.

For these reasons + its meager interface, tiny buttons and fugly case design, i will never buy an Ocean, or any other CDMA phone for that matter.

robPOD
Aug 7, 2007, 03:12 AM
Is macrumors turning into engadget, did Helio pay macrumors to advertise this??

tyson12zoll
Aug 7, 2007, 03:12 AM
Why is this relevant to mac rumors? What is this? Gizmodo? Have we sold out here or something? Seriously, I've never seen a more irrelevant post on this site.

mixel
Aug 7, 2007, 03:13 AM
After years and years (seems that way...) of iPhone hype... Arn posts one article suggesting that the iPhone isn't better that all the alternatives at everything and all the "bois" goes ******* "HOW DARE YOU DEFILE OUR BELIEFS, blasphemer!!!1111!!" (more or less, but with suggestions of "money changing hands" and so on...
I don't think that's the point at all. Like you say there are multiple alternatives to the iphone, especially if you look outside the US too, there are many "much better" devices (on paper, not necessarily in person).. I'd hate it if they ended up on macrumors, as they have naff-all to do with anything Apple. You have to draw the line somewhere, and the logical place to draw it would be before *any* of the "alternatives".. No reason should cause this to be up, even a joke.

Sidekicks, Treos, random SEs and Nokias.. A lot of the Macrumors members were tired of the iPhone hype itself.. If MacRumors is going to start going on about other random devices too, that'll make people even worse.

I don't mind too much as it looks like an interesting device, but it probably shouldn't be here. If you're doing this, what about alternatives to the AppleTV, Cimena Display and other satellites of the Mac range?

robPOD
Aug 7, 2007, 03:15 AM
I don't mind too much as it looks like an interesting device, but it probably shouldn't be here. If you're doing this, what about alternatives to the AppleTV, Cimena Display and other satellites of the Mac range?

I fully agree with you on that point, it really shouldnt be on the front page of this site maybe in the forums but not on the front page.

surferfromuk
Aug 7, 2007, 03:19 AM
I do hope Macrumors hasn't set it's heart on becoming another gutter level dollar driven tech blog.

F*(kin internet is already fast becoming nothing more than one massive virtual shillzone...

tyson12zoll
Aug 7, 2007, 03:19 AM
No. No advertising money was exchanged.

Hey... if I were on a plane to SF to report on a certain Media event... then I'd be too busy to explore this sort of thing. :)

(fyi, this is a "real" story. debate the merits of the iphone vs the helio. This site's never been about fan-boy-ism, as much as enthusiasm about apple products. despite what people think, this is not an ad, the timing is not about pettiness, maybe a little bit of humor, and a few other reasons mixed in)

arn

So basically you are bitter about not being invited to the event. PS I caught on to this in a previous post today. My suggestion is to get over it. This is not what macrumors should be about....this is the FRONT PAGE for @#$% sake.

After G
Aug 7, 2007, 03:22 AM
I wouldn't buy a Helio because if enough people make a stink or spam Apple's feature request line about "iPhone doesn't have feature *" then Apple can just release a software update and enable IM or video recording or whatever else the people want. Heck, someone could just hack the iPhone and write an app for that feature.

3G or any hardware special thing can be a dock connected or Bluetooth thing. As in:

"If you want 3G you can get a dock-connected self-powered 3G modem and go to town. Don't blame us if the modem dies before the iPhone does."

I don't see the big deal since everyone knows Wifi is fast enough for reading a webpage. And for people who can't get off the Internet ... take a break for once and immerse yourself in Real Life.

knelto
Aug 7, 2007, 03:22 AM
I remember a month ago when Helio was going to charge members to access YouTube (even after paying for a "no strings attached" unlimited internet thing). It took all the pissed off Helio users to make them change that.

Oh, and for the record, it is a f#%$ng phone company and it is a f*$@ing phone.

k2k koos
Aug 7, 2007, 03:28 AM
That thing is ugly.Period.

Agreed in full, however, it has one thing that is missing from iPhone, GPS. considering that Google maps is somewhat integrated with the iPhone (remember the coffee order Steve Jobs made at the first public demonstration of the iPhone) it would be great if the phone could actually guide you there too. :apple:
Video is something I personally do not care about so much, it would be a nice extra, but GPS could greatly enhance the functionality of the iPhone.
:apple:

zen
Aug 7, 2007, 03:31 AM
Extremely dissappointed at this item appearing on the front page. Sure, no money changed hands, but it reads like an advert. And while Macrumors isn't Apple's monkey, I thought it supported Apple because the people behind it (and us) LIKE Apple. Why give space to a strange bit of competition?

OK, Macrumors wasn't invited to the event today, but as people have said, it's an unofficial rumours site. Why would they be invited? Having said that, I don't see how this "news" item is a dig at Apple or a subtle bit of "Macrumors is miffed at not being invited", because as I said I don't think anyone would think Macrumors would be anyway.

Whatever the reasons, unfortunately my opinion of Macrumors has decreased somewhat today. It's still the best Mac site around with the best forum, but this piece is the first serious misjudgement.

Phat_Pat
Aug 7, 2007, 03:33 AM
People are being stupid. As someone whos been reading this site for a long time its pretty obvious arn isn't serious.

How dare apple turn a blind eye towards arn! i say post more alternatives... bring the machine down!

haunebu
Aug 7, 2007, 03:34 AM
Helio did not tell the whole story there...

1. The Ocean doesn't have WiFi, forcing you to use only the cell network to transfer data. 3G data coverage is only avalible around citys, and where there is no 3G or standard data (which is most of the US - see attached map) you have no data at all and can only use the phone's voice services.

Stop. Just stop right there, because you're wrong on multiple points.

First, 3G coverage is available for most of the population. Yes, most of us Americanos live in cities where 3G is available.

Second, if you happen to be one of those few unlucky people who doesn't have 3G coverage, you still have 1x coverage - which is itself comparable to EDGE in throughput and has lower latency.

In addition, Helio operates using Sprint, Verizon and Alltel's network infrastructure to deliver all that coverage - and doesn't charge for roaming, Try matching that with AT&T.

As for your comment about CDMA EV-DO (a technologically superior code-division service) to GSM/EDGE (a slower time-devision service with all the corresponding drawbacks like dropped calls, poor voice quality)... whatever. I guess that's why all the GSM providers are using W-CDMA (CDMA EV-DO's little brother) for their network upgrades, huh? :p

zen
Aug 7, 2007, 03:34 AM
But it's not even an iPhone alternative - it DOESN'T even synch with Macs!

MacbookSwitcher
Aug 7, 2007, 03:40 AM
arn's ticked off because he wasn't invited to the Stevenote so he's doing this.

Just an opinion..:)

That is the first thing I thought as well.

This article has no place on Macrumors whatsoever. It is not a rumor, and has nothing to do with Mac or Apple.

koobcamuk
Aug 7, 2007, 03:43 AM
That is a useless phone. Check out what Japan or the UK have in terms of cell phones. The Nokia N95 is selling well at the moment. 5MP camera, GPS and a good browsing experience. USA still suck in terms of phones.

If I pulled out an iPhone (And I hope it is released here in the UK soon cause I'm getting impatient!) She would look somewhat impressed!

I used to think like this, but the iPhone just doesn't kick it for me any more. I was very excited at first, but now I couldn't care less about it. Give it 3G and a 3MP camera at least and GPS, then I will snap one up.

As for girls. I might not want to get an iPhone because every other bugger is going to have one and I like to be different. Think different, everyone: Get and iPhone! hmmm...?

Sony Ericsson have some seriously amazing phones coming out soon - to all networks in the UK. They really do fight the iPhone. The only things the iPhone has are multi-touch and a 'large screen' to watch videos on. But we can't buy videos on itunes in the UK. So the mass market won't know what to do with it until that happens. Not only that, but when the hell am I going to watch a video on a 3.5" screen? Bus? Don't use one. Train/plane .... MacBook please! :)

koobcamuk
Aug 7, 2007, 03:48 AM
That is the first thing I thought as well.

This article has no place on Macrumors whatsoever. It is not a rumor, and has nothing to do with Mac or Apple.

Agreed. Slightly annoying to comment on a ******* phone on Macrumors. I would go to many, many other forums to waste my time talking about phones.

This is where I waste my time talking about Macs. :rolleyes:

Devil's Refugee
Aug 7, 2007, 04:00 AM
I posted this phone, specs and comparison weeks ago in the iPhone forum. Hardly breaking news !

:confused:

Deslock
Aug 7, 2007, 04:02 AM
This is old news.... the comparison chart was posted a while ago; engadget had a story (http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/30/helio-pits-apples-iphone-against-ocean/) about it to which I replied (http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/30/helio-pits-apples-iphone-against-ocean/comments/5719994/) back in June (at that point I didn't realize that the Helio also lacks wifi):
Sure, the iPhone is missing several noteworthy features and the Helio Ocean is also a really cool device. But a lot of important specifications are strangely absent from this comparison list:

1 Screen size
2 Screen resolution
3 Device weight
4 Device dimensions
5 Battery life
6 Included memory
7 Video playback options and framerates
8 Audio playback options
9 Complete list of bundled software
10 Memory slot

The iPhone crushes the Ocean in the first 9 and I'm guessing they left off the memory slot because they didn't want to call attention to the Ocean's paltry amount of memory.

Also the only mention of the iPhone's most important feature (its touch screen) is in the "Hardware Keyboard" category (as if touch screen doesn't deserve a category). No mention of the multi-touch screen. No mention of the iPhone's gesture-based interface. No mention of visual-voice mail.

n-abounds
Aug 7, 2007, 04:07 AM
This is very fishy. I thought this was fishy before I read anyone else's comments.

I say, take down this "rumor". AKA, give Helio their advertising money back.

TheNumberOneFan
Aug 7, 2007, 04:17 AM
obviously they aren't going to put anything in their "comparison" chart that would have the word "no" on Helio's side. So anything that they left out to compare with the iPhone was likely left out because they would look much less appealing if it were there.

its all about the wow :apple:

zac4mac
Aug 7, 2007, 04:22 AM
Slow news day - give Arn a break. No pre-show leaks, no trip to SF for Arn, here's something to chew on...

I've had my iPhone, earned by standing in line for 10+ hours at the local Apple bar and I'm finding it more indispensable every day. Yesterday I took off into town for something and part-way out realized I left my phone plugged into my MBP, refueling. I almost turned around to get it.

OT - I watched and showed-off the video of Jake Brown's X-Game crash so many times the battery died by 4pm... YouTube really eats up the battery.

Z

twoodcc
Aug 7, 2007, 04:25 AM
seems alright....but that thing is ugly! and i'm happy with my iPhone thank you!

MacQuest
Aug 7, 2007, 04:28 AM
haha so arn, basically you're just bitter you didn't get an invite to the media event?

That's exactly what I was thinking.

...That being said, sites like Engadget and Gizmodo run Apple rumors all the time.

arn

And there's the confirmation.

;)

Royale w/cheese
Aug 7, 2007, 04:30 AM
wow. old skool. my dad used to have one of the 1st mobile phones out - he had to carry it in a briefcase!

My dad had one that WAS a briefcase, the bagphones. Gross :D
He would have me carry it and it would sometimes drag on the ground when the strap was on my shoulder, and I was not a very short kid!

parafish13
Aug 7, 2007, 04:31 AM
Dear Arn: rock on! This is a nice (and funny-surprising in a good way) change of pace.

Dear surprisingly-high number of members in this post: Laugh! It's good for you!

Royale w/cheese
Aug 7, 2007, 04:35 AM
Is arn gonna have to issue a public apology or something? :rolleyes: 5 and a half hours to go, then maybe we will have something better to talk (complain?) about. Lets all get some rest. :o

fireplace
Aug 7, 2007, 04:44 AM
Arn, I like it.

You lot on the fat side of the pond need to learn to appreciate irony:rolleyes:

macam
Aug 7, 2007, 05:01 AM
Sony Ericsson have some seriously amazing phones coming out soon - to all networks in the UK. They really do fight the iPhone. The only things the iPhone has are multi-touch and a 'large screen' to watch videos on.

Yar I hear you... and I am a staunch sonyericsson user... They make the best phones in my opinion, and they seem to work much better with a mac than any other phone including Nokia!

But that's not to say that the SonyEricsson doesn't come with it's flaws... So that's why the iPhone is so appealing to me (Along with it's prettyness) is the ability to completely be sync'd with my mac...

And unfortunately the Helios Oceanios doesn't really do that!?

So iPhone all the way for me... even tho - it doesn't take videos, has a crappy resolution cam, doesn't do picture messaging, doesn't have GPS... To be honest after the first month... those features are all moot. I use it as an address book, a phone, a text device for 11 months of the year!

I have GPS in my car, I don't record those moments for posterity on a low res video cam... they are just nice extra features... Altho - I do think 3G would be good to have...

But hey ho...

All this posting doesn't really help the fact that I don't have an iPhone.

macam

Modjo
Aug 7, 2007, 05:13 AM
This is getting blown waaaaay out of proportion!

Even though it being a joke and all, it's nice to see some alternatives.
And at that price, it's a damn feasible alternative.
I don't know if it will be available in Europe, but i might be tempted to buy this thing instead of an iPhone.

I do realize this is an Apple-fan site, and i am an avid Apple-fan owning several machines and working on them for 10+ years. But please people, let your intelligence speak instead of the fan-boy-ism.

If there is a superior product available (i'm not saying this is the case, the iPhone has other features that make it stand out) it might be worthwhile to take an unbiased look at it and compare it to Apple's products. Which i believe was the case in Arn's post.

If he made some money with it, let him have it. He's not running a charity, and the post is related to the subject of the site. So i don't see anything wrong with it, as long as it doesn't interfere with the posting of newsitems we've all grown used to over the years.

breath of apple
Aug 7, 2007, 05:16 AM
I agree that this should not be posted on MR page 1, and that there are many, many stories out there relating to "apple competitors" that could be posted - "competitors" for Apple displays, OSX, applications, hardware, iphone, etc. If Arn wants to post articles about Apple competitors, maybe there should just be a ":apple: competitors" tab/forum on MR where we could all go in and look at the latest competitor news. And, of course, comment :) There could even be comparison charts, etc., where helpful. MR could eventually (with a lot of effort) become a "1 stop information place" not only for Apple but for those wanting an "MR take" on Apple competition.

Thank you, Arn and team, for all of your work on MR to date - you've built an excellent site! Maybe there is even more room to expand?

Modjo
Aug 7, 2007, 05:19 AM
If Arn wants to post articles about Apple competitors, maybe there should just be a ":apple: competitors" tab/forum on MR where we could all go in and look at the latest competitor news. And, of course, comment :) There could even be comparison charts, etc., where helpful.

Great idea!
He would make good money with it too :p

MacQuest
Aug 7, 2007, 05:27 AM
5 and a half hours to go...

6 and a half (+3 minutes to be exact).

Cleverboy
Aug 7, 2007, 05:28 AM
How would you like SELECTION/COPY/PASTE to work?
07-17-2007, 08:36 AM - Posted by Cleverboy
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=330711

How Apple Could Handle Copy and Paste in the iPhone
07-28-2007, 09:11 PM - Posted by arn
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=335012

HELIO OCEAN - besting the iPHONE 24/7...?
07-14-2007, 06:16 AM - Posted by Cleverboy
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=329599

iPhone Alternative: Helio Ocean
08-07-2007, 01:28 AM - Posted by arn
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=338201Oh... I see how this works now... Well, if arn is anything like me (GMTA?), then this thread is simply a Machiavellian plot to once again deal Helio Ocean a back-handed compliment. My take? Given the comparison chart (that I actually stuck in the thread, FYI) how in heaven's name is Helio Ocean simply not the cat's meow of the iPhone set? It's everything anyone could ever hope for in a feature phone... ANY phone, yet iPhone misses many BASIC features? --Caused a nice roaring debate... A few weeks ago.

It ended in the somewhat universally held belief that people that bought the iPhone did so because Helio isn't really all its cracked up to be, even with all the features. People would rather a feature-light iPhone than a feature-heavy Helio. Same two year contract (unless you manage a promotional offer), comparable price to 4GB iPhone (after picking up retail memory cards to boost storage... ships with only 200MB), no WiFi (as an MVNO, if you ever break your contract the device is truly *useless* without service), no contact syncing (although you can import... oh, joy... a CSV file!), no iTunes (although you can buy music "over the air" for $1.99 a song!), a web-browser that is nifty for a mobile browser without touchscreen (but pales in comparison, like all others, to the iPhone's Safari experience). MySpace integration? What the hell is that supposed to mean... I mean really?

In a Gawker poll, iPhone was given the cold shoulder to the Ocean:
http://polls.gawker.com/?key==kTO0MTM&voted=1

Results as of August 8th, 2007:
Helio Ocean
59.2% (4275 votes)
Apple iPhone
31.0% (2236 votes)

Considering that Earthlink's Helio Ocean investment continues to be a money losing operation, I guess they must be in it for the long haul though. Hopefully people will flock to the Ocean in droves, and maybe someday in the none-too-distant future they might turn a profit. Personally though, I'm more than happy with my iPhone and would consider the similarly "deficient" Blackberry Pearl before the Helio. Call me a sucker for quality. "Feature-packed" or "Over compensating", you decide. ;)

Oh, and um... Long Live the Forum of the Phoenix!

~ CB

mschmitt
Aug 7, 2007, 05:44 AM
Maybe a few of us are simply sleep-deprived as we await today's announcements.

Arn, I've been reading your site since 2001, when I switched BACK to Mac as Jaguar became available. You run a great site and always seem to treat site visitors with respect. I really appreciate that.

If you want to post a non-Apple / non-Mac article, it is certainly your right, and it doesn't bother me in the least. Why should Apple get all the free advertising? They sure don't need it, do they?

Haven't we seen MS Vista ads on this site? Has there been a similar outcry from the "faithful"?

Keep up the good work, Arn.

danielwsmithee
Aug 7, 2007, 06:25 AM
... but all the usability in the world won't matter if your device doesn't do what you want it to in the first place.The same can be said in the opposite direction too. All the features in the world don't matter if they are difficult to use. Devices run the gamete from feature rich with poor usability to very few features with great usability. Apple tends to stay on the usable side with a few key features.

mschmitt
Aug 7, 2007, 06:32 AM
I remember studying gametes in biology. ;)

There's always "gamut".

princigalli
Aug 7, 2007, 06:41 AM
It's ugly, it's really ugly. I would love to see some great competition kick the Iphone from behind, since I hate Apple's sales strategy. But it's not with those ugly things that Apple will be threatened.

nrd
Aug 7, 2007, 06:42 AM
The CEO of Helio is a Scientologist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky_Dayton), so take that as you will. The article does read like an ad. It really should be revised or removed. I thought this site was Mac Rumors, not "Cool Scientology Phone" Rumors.

ImageWrangler
Aug 7, 2007, 06:42 AM
In context, this "news" item comes across as a petty and childish move by the admins.

Same admins who wont let some members post things with a little snark and some often deserved slams on people who have them coming while adding actual content — then banning them over nothing — yet will let misinformed, bad info spewing, self-appointed know-it-alls (anything but) disingenuous and often insultive should-be-banned types like Multimedia stick around, or other members like Stella get a continuous free pass yet all he adds in every single one of his posts is pure negativeness and critizisms of every thing Apple tries.

Heck, I'd say the Helio article has more merit than the agregious actions of the admins stated above, and THAT my friends is really saying something. Though in slight defense (slight, as in actually little to none) at least this article wasn't called "iPhone killer." This place isn't as bad as C|Net (yet anyways).

gotohamish
Aug 7, 2007, 06:42 AM
Is this advertorial?

diamond.g
Aug 7, 2007, 06:57 AM
Helio did not tell the whole story there...

1. The Ocean doesn't have WiFi, forcing you to use only the cell network to transfer data. 3G data coverage is only avalible around citys, and where there is no 3G or standard data (which is most of the US - see attached map) you have no data at all and can only use the phone's voice services.

2. They neglected to explain that unlike the iPhone, which uses a GSM/GPRS modem for its long range communications, the ocean uses CDMA-2000/EV-DO, a closed and dieing standard avalible only in the US and Korea, rendering the Ocean useless in the entire rest of the world.

For these reasons + its meager interface, tiny buttons and fugly case design, i will never buy an Ocean, or any other CDMA phone for that matter.

Stop. Just stop right there, because you're wrong on multiple points.

First, 3G coverage is available for most of the population. Yes, most of us Americanos live in cities where 3G is available.

Second, if you happen to be one of those few unlucky people who doesn't have 3G coverage, you still have 1x coverage - which is itself comparable to EDGE in throughput and has lower latency.

In addition, Helio operates using Sprint, Verizon and Alltel's network infrastructure to deliver all that coverage - and doesn't charge for roaming, Try matching that with AT&T.

As for your comment about CDMA EV-DO (a technologically superior code-division service) to GSM/EDGE (a slower time-devision service with all the corresponding drawbacks like dropped calls, poor voice quality)... whatever. I guess that's why all the GSM providers are using W-CDMA (CDMA EV-DO's little brother) for their network upgrades, huh? :p

Dang, you took all my biting points.

zac4mac
Aug 7, 2007, 06:57 AM
Good grief people.

Arn did this to spark a little conversation while we all sit in the dark waiting.

It's not an advertisement, nor a solicitation from Scientologists. Just some mental tiddly-winks.

Somebody scrounge up some real info... cmon, I'm jonesin' for some Apple newness.

Z

Jebaloo
Aug 7, 2007, 07:18 AM
Is this a paid for ad? It's not what I have come to expect from this site, no?

manu chao
Aug 7, 2007, 07:18 AM
In the comments to this article by Pogue about the iPhone, somebody details his experience with a Helio (search for Helio on that site), very funny read:
http://pogue.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/18/iphoneatt-billuh-oh/

kresh
Aug 7, 2007, 07:33 AM
Can't remember the product (was it Dial?), just the tag line: "Never let them see you sweat".

With this article and Arn's edited comments on it, he has clearly let Apple see him sweat. It's clear how much not getting invited really got to him.

I feel for you Arn, better luck next event, maybe it was just an over sight. (hopefully)

erikistired
Aug 7, 2007, 07:34 AM
It's a revealingly unprofessional joke that is sure to make it even harder for MacRumors to get any respect when Apple media events come up.

it has nothing to do with respect. MR posts things that apple doesn't want out, hence an article being removed after they were contacted by apple legal. it's what they do, it's why we visit, to try and get the scoop. but as arn realizes (and posted in the thread already) it isn't going to make him or the site friendly with apple media, and would possibly be a conflict of interest anyway.

that doesn't mean he can't take a little poke at them tho.

iBlue
Aug 7, 2007, 07:38 AM
http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/2-no-no-no.gif

http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/deadhorse.gif http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/deadhorse.gif http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/deadhorse.gif http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/deadhorse.gif http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/deadhorse.gif http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/deadhorse.gif http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/deadhorse.gif http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/deadhorse.gif http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/deadhorse.gif

decksnap
Aug 7, 2007, 07:40 AM
Wow. This is the lamest thread ever started on MacRumors! MR is pissed they didn't get invited to the event so they post an ad for the competition? That'll show 'em! How old are we?

Sutekidane
Aug 7, 2007, 07:40 AM
Lots of haters on this site. I for one won't review something until I actually own it.

arn
Aug 7, 2007, 07:56 AM
It's clear how much not getting invited really got to him. I feel for you Arn, better luck next event, maybe it was just an over sight. (hopefully)

Actually, we've never been invited to Apple's media events over the past 7 years, and am not really expecting to get invited in the future. So, it didn't really bother me that much, I was just more public about the circumstances this time as people tend to expect MacRumorsLive coverage.

This news story was largely symbolic, but obviously was lost on many.

arn

arpeggi.
Aug 7, 2007, 07:57 AM
Ahhh... a little bitter are we? I can sympathize with you to a degree but I don't appreciate being used as ammunition against Apple. This is pretty low though. You must be pissed.

Now that I think about it this is pretty tacky and juvenile. MR lost some points in my book tonight. Where did that other site go? (http://www.engadget.com)

Agreed, MR you could have done SO much better... Saddened by this really!

andiwm2003
Aug 7, 2007, 08:05 AM
gee, i always thought i don't have any humor. but in this thread?? c'mon guy's, ease up. it's fun. nice story Arn. i'll keep that phone on my list because it offers a lot for the money.

the best thing on this thread is this smiley from the post above:

http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/deadhorse.gif

i hope edesignuk's bandwith doesn't get used up by us using his smiley. i hope even more he doesn't change the pic to something nasty.....

yg17
Aug 7, 2007, 08:08 AM
god forbid a mac site mentions an alternative to your holy iphone :rolleyes:

leviut
Aug 7, 2007, 08:12 AM
I considered the Helio quite seriously. But I was already with Cingular, and a Mac owner... I was destined to have an iPhone.

The Helio seems a little 'toyish' by design, and less sophisticated than iPhone. The Helio design was a deal breaker. I also don't think the company will be around very long.

Regarding the Helio ad on macrumors.com, you know there is no comparison!!!!!

You might as well take that Helio thing off the front page!!!

nervouk
Aug 7, 2007, 08:14 AM
helio would not advertise on macrumors any more than dell would. come on guys, if you think someone is trying to pay MR to sway you away from Apple, you're flattering yourselves.

damn, now you woke me from my lurker hibernation. i'm going back to sleep now.

Lone Deranger
Aug 7, 2007, 08:26 AM
Admittedly, this thread initially had me slightly confused as to what it's place was on MR. After reading the motivations behind it I must confess that I'm finding it rather amusing. The iPhone is not the be all and end all. It's good to be reminded of the other offerings outthere. To do so slightly tongue-in-cheek is nice and refreshing. Let's hope Apple sees it the same way. :)

Actually, we've never been invited to Apple's media events over the past 7 years, and am not really expecting to get invited in the future. So, it didn't really bother me that much, I was just more public about the circumstances this time as people tend to expect MacRumorsLive coverage.

This news story was largely symbolic, but obviously was lost on many.

arn

slffl
Aug 7, 2007, 08:28 AM
But it takes 5x longer to do anything on it.

It's not how many 'features' a device has. It's how well it does what it has.

ebow
Aug 7, 2007, 08:29 AM
To me the Ocean is a perfect example of what it is that Apple has that other companies lack. In a feature chart, and even in advertisements, it looks great. But it's missing the design, attention to detail and user interface that Apple has. Without those, all the features in the world don't make it appealing to me.

...

I find that interesting when compared against an article in Technology Review (http://www.technologyreview.com/read_article.aspx?id=18647&ch=infotech) (free registration required) I read a few months ago. It was all about the design effort that goes into products like the Helios Ocean. I'll admit the article did seem a bit uncritically enthusiastic. Anyway, here are some excerpts:



The Ocean is hefty by today's sleek standards, pill-shaped in a market of rectangular things. The company's future will hinge on how much the intended audience appreciates those departures from conventional design. It will hinge on the layout of the device's QWERTY keyboard. It will hinge on the simplicity of the messaging and search interface (for instance, the way it allows users to start typing from idle mode). And it will hinge on--the hinges. ... operated by a novel three-way spring, they enable a keyboard to slide out from one side of the device and a numerical keypad to slide out from another.

In short, the Ocean's design will make or break Helio. "Basically, to us, design is the product," says Sky Dayton, the 35-year-old CEO ... "We get up every day thinking about this," he says. "If you go talk to the CEO or COO of one of the major carriers, I doubt you will hear much about the color of icons, the feel of the soft-touch paint. I can wax poetic about the spring-loaded action [of the sliders]." And he does: "We really thought about the movement and the sound it makes when it opens, the sound it makes when it closes. You see a mannerism when people open and close their Ocean. It's like humming to yourself."

...

But the dual-slide format brought on another problem: no one wanted a device that was too thick. A number pad and a QWERTY keyboard would normally require two sets of springs and hinges--one for each slider. This would tend to fatten the gadget. What's more, Helio wanted the sliders to be rugged and to have a firm "feel," like the luxurious thwunk of a BMW's door.

...

The appearance of bulkiness was a concern to everyone on the team. There could be no sacrifice of function, and no putting the Ocean on a diet. So the engineers sat down to figure out how to make their slightly bloated electronic jackknife appear as thin as an iPod Nano. The Ocean could not be made thinner, but it could be made to look thinner. As the old carpenters' saying goes: "Paint makes it what it ain't." Shininess and hardness can make a device seem larger; Helio chose a soft-touch black paint, partly for its slimming effect and partly for its somewhat minimalist look and slightly rubbery feel.

...

[Helios] wants to sell phones to more people than geeks, or even hipsters in SoHo and Santa *Monica. Already, the device is being discussed in the same breath as the iPhone. But just how the Ocean, the iPhone, and other do-it-all devices will compete and coexist in different markets won't be clear until the competition, and the shakeout, begin this spring.


Hopefully that will give y'all something more on-topic to discuss. :eek:

yg17
Aug 7, 2007, 08:44 AM
But it takes 5x longer to do anything on it.

It's not how many 'features' a device has. It's how well it does what it has.


I'll take features over ease of use thank you very much . I'm not a technophobic moron, I can figure out how to do stuff even if it is slightly more difficult

JonHimself
Aug 7, 2007, 09:00 AM
I can't help but think this is up here because MR didn't get invited to the event? Between that and putting quotation marks around "media" in the other post it definitely seems very immature. (I would be very bitter as well though)

yg17
Aug 7, 2007, 09:06 AM
I can't help but think this is up here because MR didn't get invited to the event? Between that and putting quotation marks around "media" in the other post it definitely seems very immature. (I would be very bitter as well though)


arn has already said that's not the case. MR has never been invited to a media event and probably never will be. Apple isn't too fond of rumor sites.

alywa
Aug 7, 2007, 09:11 AM
Man, there are some touchy people here today. I thought the "ad" was well played by Arn... It got a chuckle out of me.

As far as the Ocean... it is a pretty cool device. Not an iPhone, but it is a very capable device from a new player. I wish Helio the best, and hope they can stay in the market... true innovation often comes from the little guys.

kidwithdimples
Aug 7, 2007, 09:21 AM
Helio is a completely different Phone Company. It is Korean and it sucks. My friend has the Helio Drift and has a 2 yr contract with them. He told me not to get it because the service is just horrible. So I went with a Sidekick 3 (worth the $)

narco
Aug 7, 2007, 09:24 AM
Well, I thought it was funny.

yg17
Aug 7, 2007, 09:25 AM
Helio is a completely different Phone Company. It is Korean and it sucks. My friend has the Helio Drift and has a 2 yr contract with them. He told me not to get it because the service is just horrible. So I went with a Sidekick 3 (worth the $)

Helio uses Sprint's network, so I'm not surprised they suck so bad

Undecided
Aug 7, 2007, 09:27 AM
No wifi, twice as thick as an iPhone, heavier than an iPhone, smaller screen, lower resolution screen...

Weird article - a rant against Apple for not being invited?

yg17
Aug 7, 2007, 09:33 AM
a rant against Apple for not being invited?

Did you not read the thread? :rolleyes:

mozmac
Aug 7, 2007, 09:34 AM
Kudos to them for trying.

Dagless
Aug 7, 2007, 09:54 AM
On paper I liked the sound of that, shame it doesn't (since I haven't seen this or the iPhone in real life) have the iPhone style complete-touch interface. Them Ocean features I pretty much need in a phone now. :o

iAFC
Aug 7, 2007, 09:55 AM
Poor Arn. :(

jouster
Aug 7, 2007, 09:57 AM
Weird article - a rant against Apple for not being invited?

I think you've nailed it. How has no one come up with this theory so far?

megfilmworks
Aug 7, 2007, 09:59 AM
I don't know what is more ridiculous, the look or the name "Ocean"
Where do they come up with these losers?

Gosh
Aug 7, 2007, 10:16 AM
If it doesn't have a really effective mult-touch human interface and Mac OS X (mobile) operating system (or one as user friendly) then it's not an iPhone alternative - infact there isn't one and probably won't be one.

That said there will be 100's of phones trying hard to be as attractive to use as the iPhone and that's not a bad thing - becuase the iPhone will do well in any comparison where it is unique and those areas which might need a tweak or a new option can be added any time!

Apple need to open up sooner rather than later for hardware and software developers.

I'm rating this Ocean thingy a positive - flattery to the iPhone!:)

megfilmworks
Aug 7, 2007, 10:19 AM
If it doesn't have a really effective mult-touch human interface and Mac OS X (mobile) operating system (or one as user friendly) then it's not an iPhone alternative - infact there isn't one and probably won't be one.
I agree there just is no comparison. Do we compare Porsches and KIAs?

Badandy
Aug 7, 2007, 10:21 AM
O NOES!!!!11onene! Arn actually has a personality and can make a joke which is not understood by 80% of the mac community on this site.

Calm down everyone. Open your minds, laugh at the humor of it, move on. Really, how many people did he dissuade from getting an iPhone and getting a Helio Ocean?

mrgreen4242
Aug 7, 2007, 10:21 AM
Actually, I'm glad Arn posted this. I think the iPhone is ... neat, but I'd never buy one. Way to expensive. Has lots of features, but missing some key ones for me, and has features that I'm not sure I would ever use. I don't really need a PDA, mobile web browser, or any of that. I need fast access to email, a basic contact list, good phone signal, and battery life. The iPhone does all that, but it does a ton more, which adds to the expense but doesn't add any value, FOR ME. Also, GPS is something sorely missing from the iPhone. Plus, I HATE AT&T.

Also, wouldn't want to combine my iPod and cell phone because they have two completely different purposes and draining battery from one for the other is not acceptable to me. (One is a communication device, one an entertainment device. I wouldn't want to drain my phone battery by listening to my iPod).

I saw some commercials for the Ocean, looked pretty slick. Never read much about it after that though. This post got me over to their site where I could look at their service and products. The Ocean is still a bit pricey for a phone in my book, but not $500 at least. Their other phones offer the features I'm most interested in anyways - GPS and GMail integration are the top two things for me; unlimited data transfers, unlimited text, photo, and video messaging, basic web surfing are nice as well.

Their pricing for shared plans aren't bad either. Bit expensive for a single line, imo ($65 for 500 minutes and unlimited data) but you can add second lines for $10 each (which is cheap, since most other carriers make you get a $20 more expensive family plan before you can start adding $10 lines). In the end, unlimited data services and 500 minutes (which is all the wife and I use anyways, since most of our calls are either too each other or nights/weekends) is $75 for two phones. We pay $60 for 500 minutes with NO data features on Sprint (although we do get 7pm nights, which is great).

Anyways, the iPhone isn't for everyone, even Apple loving nerds like me. I'm glad to see some of the other options explored!

Helio uses Sprint's network, so I'm not surprised they suck so bad
I have Sprint right now and I get the best signal/coverage of anyone I know. I get GOOD signal places where other companies get NOTHING, as well as all the places everything else works. The sound quality for calls is good, no worse than a normal phone. Point being that cell coverage is HIGHLY geographic. Before you make blanket statements about a particular companies coverage/service you should consider the location of the person you're talking to (in this case, a public forum with users worldwide).

yg17
Aug 7, 2007, 10:24 AM
If it doesn't have a really effective mult-touch human interface and Mac OS X (mobile) operating system (or one as user friendly) then it's not an iPhone alternative - infact there isn't one and probably won't be one.

Um, if it has OSX Mobile then it is an iPhone. The Ocean and any other smartphone are alternatives. Alternatives aren't meant to be identical, they're meant to be different but do the same

mhfnyc
Aug 7, 2007, 10:27 AM
The few people I know that use Helio love it. I looked into it for myself. I needed a phone that offering good International coverage.

Helio does offer good service/ $ rates for Central and South America, parts of Asia, and the USA. BUT.... it had VERY BAD COVERAGE / roaming rates in Europe.

megfilmworks
Aug 7, 2007, 10:27 AM
Um, if it has OSX Mobile then it is an iPhone. The Ocean and any other smartphone are alternatives. Alternatives aren't meant to be identical, they're meant to be different but do the sameCalling the Ocean an alternative to the iPhone is like saying ground beef substitutes for filet mignon. Actually, it's not even that close.

aarond12
Aug 7, 2007, 10:31 AM
Obviously Helio is an MNVO, but with whom? What network does it use? If it works overseas, it's probably a GSM phone, which would make them an MNVO with T-Mobile (since they're bashing AT&T)...

Anyone know for sure?

yg17
Aug 7, 2007, 10:33 AM
Calling the Ocean an alternative to the iPhone is like saying ground beef substitutes for filet mignon. Actually, it's not even that close.
Yeah, the iPhone is the ground beef :rolleyes:

Obviously Helio is an MNVO, but with whom? What network does it use? If it works overseas, it's probably a GSM phone, which would make them an MNVO with T-Mobile (since they're bashing AT&T)...

Anyone know for sure?
Sprint



Helio does offer good service/ $ rates for Central and South America, parts of Asia, and the USA. BUT.... it had VERY BAD COVERAGE / roaming rates in Europe.

Yep...it's CDMA. So no coverage in Europe. No unlocked SIM cards. None of that good stuff. That's why I only use GSM

tgildred
Aug 7, 2007, 10:40 AM
Calm down everyone. Open your minds, laugh at the humor of it, move on. Really, how many people did he dissuade from getting an iPhone and getting a Helio Ocean?

ME!! And now it's in my head and it's too late!

My only hope is too start a multiday glue-sniffing binge to try and kill whichever brain cell this memory is stored on!!

Chisholm
Aug 7, 2007, 10:53 AM
I was shocked this morning to see this post. My first impression was that someone was feeling a bit miffed about not being invited to today's Media Event. Maybe this would have been better placed in the MacBytes area? Especially in light of today's REAL news. But there again, I'm not a MacRumors editor. Good god, one hour and eight minutes 'til...

No. No advertising money was exchanged.

Hey... if I were on a plane to SF to report on a certain Media event... then I'd be too busy to explore this sort of thing. :)

(fyi, this is a "real" story. debate the merits of the iphone vs the helio. This site's never been about fan-boy-ism, as much as enthusiasm about apple products. despite what people think, this is not an ad, the timing is not about pettiness, maybe a little bit of humor, and a few other reasons mixed in)

arn

parafish13
Aug 7, 2007, 10:56 AM
Heh heh heh. This is so Monty Python! Do it again, Arn!

s10
Aug 7, 2007, 11:03 AM
This is MacRumors way of saying" F.. you Apple for not inviting us to todays event..."

bytethese
Aug 7, 2007, 11:07 AM
Gee, that screen looks small, I don't see that on their chart. How abotu dimensions, I don't see that either. Can I zoom in on webpages with a tap? Nope. Can I scroll using my finger? Nope. But it's a full blown ipod with video and MP3's right? Nope. Oh oh, but it must have WiFi tho right? Nope. I'm sure they can have a conference call of 5 peolle right? Who knows, that's not posted. It does full calendaring and contact integration? Again, who knows!?? "Only Ocean has the Ultimate Inbox, where your email, text, picture and Instant messages are located all in one place and are just a touch away." What a ****** idea. That's what I need, one friggin place for everything and me not being able to find certain messages when I need to reference them.

Seems like you get what you pay for. If you are 15 and want a brick to talk with your script kiddie buddies on MySpace and AIM, then that Ocean looks like the body of water for you. For me who wants more iPod functions, beautiful browsing experience in a device that fits nicely in my front pocket along with Apple's reputation for seamless integration of hardware/software, the iPhone is it for me. :)

dreamteam
Aug 7, 2007, 11:28 AM
ALOT of phones sound better on paper than the iPhone... no one will argue that I think. I previously had the XV6700. It can do basically everything the iphone can do, PLUS 3G, record video, camera flash, expandable memory, removable battery, 3rd party apps... and I can keep going.

Would I trade in my iPhone to go back? NO WAY!!! It's hard for me to explain what makes an iPhone superior, because people don't understand it when I simply say, "The iPhone does what it does 'The Right Way'."

- The XV6700 can play music & videos, but I never used it in that way. Because it didn't have a compatible program like iTunes to make syncing simple. The usability of the player is horrible. And the battery life never enabled me to finish watching a 2 hour movie.

- The XV6700 had a camera flash. But seriously, it's just a tiny lamp that made no difference what so ever. Unless the subject is no farther than 6 inches away, the flash has no effect.

- The XV6700 had a removable battery because you HAVE to change batteries constantly. I can pound my iphone for a whole day, knowing that the battery won't die (before I charge it again when I go to sleep). With my previous phone, I ONLY enabled wifi & bluetooth when I needed it. I put my gmail sync to manual mode. And I disabled the vibrate ring. All in effort to make sure my battery will survive the day.

- Should I even have to write down the internet browser comparisons? Lets just say I no longer have to bring my macbook wherever I go anymore.

I never used the Helio Ocean... but I'm just voicing my opinion on "paper comparisons" against the iPhone. I've been hearing alot of people trash the iphone based on a features list... but you really have to use it to appreciate it.

gsnixon
Aug 7, 2007, 11:28 AM
I seldom read or post to the forums, but I am am a regular MacRumors reader.

For what its worth, I don't really care whether this is:

A. An ad.
B. A joke.
C. Some kind of petty retribution against Apple.
D. A "new direction" for MacRumors.

Because really, I don't want to see any of those things on my Mac news site of choice. I think I'll be getting my event coverage today from another site, thank you.

iomar
Aug 7, 2007, 11:35 AM
Ahhh... a little bitter are we? I can sympathize with you to a degree but I don't appreciate being used as ammunition against Apple. This is pretty low though. You must be pissed.

Now that I think about it this is pretty tacky and juvenile. MR lost some points in my book tonight. Where did that other site go? (http://www.engadget.com)

Everyone is right here.. I come here to get apple news and rumors. No mater how cool or interesting the other phone looks, it is not an apple news and I don't want to see it here. There is lots of other sites for this sort of news and I can get it from there. This phone looks very ugly and you can't even compare it with my cool iphone. I want this to be removed from this site.

TheMotif
Aug 7, 2007, 11:38 AM
I seldom read or post to the forums, but I am am a regular MacRumors reader.

For what its worth, I don't really care whether this is:

A. An ad.
B. A joke.
C. Some kind of petty retribution against Apple.
D. A "new direction" for MacRumors.

Because really, I don't want to see any of those things on my Mac news site of choice. I think I'll be getting my event coverage today from another site, thank you.

Wow... open up your mind. Whoever wrote the Helio Ocean piece is being fair and trying to bring new conversation to the boring old iPhone stories.

Now, if it were the Microsoft Ocean, I would have a significantly different view.

AdMan2007
Aug 7, 2007, 11:42 AM
Honestly Arn, I'm glad you're not going to the event.

I love MacRumors because I know I can come here and read unbiased, legitimate concerns/reviews/rumors about all that's happening in Cupertino.

So in some little strange way, I think this site just went up a few notches in my book. It's good to know Apple doesn't have you by the belt or give you reason to sway any reviews or things of that nature.

But...I can certainly see why you'd be a bit jaded. I know if I had a website devoted to the Mac community at large, and Apple shut me out of a 'media' event, I'd be asking myself "What am I doing all this for?"

I guess it all comes down to what you want to get out of this site.

My guess is Apple takes those other guys seriously, for whatever reason.

As for me, I'm happy right here on MacRumors.com.

Keep up the good work.:)

goosnarrggh
Aug 7, 2007, 11:43 AM
Puttering around the site, I found a few answers to your questions:

Gee, that screen looks small, I don't see that on their chart.
Display – 2.4 inch QVGA display, 240 x 320, 260K colors
iPhone = 480x320 IIRC.

Can I scroll using my finger? Nope.
I cannot imagine that they would have designed the controls to be manipulated using any other appendage ;) I know where you're going with this, but in response to a message seething with so much sarcasm, I gotta be pedantic.

But it's a full blown ipod with video and MP3's right? Nope.
Personal Entertainment Center – Supports:
MP3, AAC, WMA, MPEG-4, H.264, VOD, MOD

Mind you, with 200 MB of internal storage, you'll need to use memory cards to store any significant amount of content.

panamajack
Aug 7, 2007, 11:47 AM
Come on now, Canuckistan? Any backwater former Soviet republic has better mobile service options than Canada. :rolleyes:

Sadly, how true. So sad .... in the analogue days Canada had one of the better networks in the world, too bad so much investment just went down the drain.

Oh yeah, some 'competition' would help too.

I love it when cranky fanboys get all upset and pee their pants! I think lots of prospective iPhone buyers have compared (even if only passively) other smart phones like the Ocean.

I love it even more when fanboys like gxnixon LIE and state they're boycotting such and such a site .... when they OBVIOUSLY check ALL the major sites on an annoucement date like today.

TheSlush
Aug 7, 2007, 11:47 AM
Okay, MacRumors. Experiment failed.

I suppose I understand. I see the quasi-funny-revenge nature of this post. I see how your tongue was firmly implanted in your cheek. I appreciate that. I do. It's just that, well, there's a time and a place for satire, no?

This site, to your credit, is a destination for many Mac fans (and others) for serious, sophisticated rumor news and discussion. I acknowledge your right to be as tongue-in-cheek as you darn well please with your own site. And maybe it was just a one-time thing. But as a huge fan of this site, I encourage you not to be tongue-in-cheek. I encourage you not to go down the tempting road from the "New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com)" to the "Onion (http://www.theonion.com)." Because this post was a rare Onion-ish fluke for you, I -- and others, it seems -- were shocked and confused at first when they saw this post, reeking of product placement. "Oh no," we immediately thought, "has our beloved MacRumors gone bland... sold out... gone <shudder> ENGADGET??" Then most of us got it. Ha.

(Did the outting of Fake Steve Jobs (http://fakesteve.blogspot.com) the other day inspire you to balance out that small loss of whimsy to the internet?)

Just don't insult our collective intelligence by suggesting it was a serious post meant to promote debate about the Ocean vs. iPhone. No it wasn't. We're not stupid. No backpedalling.

You see, MacRumors, it's because we care. We value you. A lot. So don't screw around with us for a personal laugh. Please.

gsnixon
Aug 7, 2007, 11:54 AM
Wow... open up your mind. Whoever wrote the Helio Ocean piece is being fair and trying to bring new conversation to the boring old iPhone stories.


I agree the glut of iPhone stories are pretty boring... but I don't think I'm being unreasonably closed-minded. I come to MacRumors.com, for, well... Mac Rumors. There are plenty of other sites for open-ended tech discussion (which I also frequent regularly). The entire draw of MacRumors, for me anyway, is its tight focus.


Now, if it were the Microsoft Ocean, I would have a significantly different view.


Why? Wouldn't that "bring new conversation" too?

50548
Aug 7, 2007, 11:54 AM
If that starts to happen my $25 contribution stops.

Really strange to see that on MR.

1 - That thing is FUGLY;

2 - That thing is NO COMPETITION to the iPhone;

3 - It really looks like an ad to me;

4 - I don't see the link whatsoever with a site dedicated to Mac news and rumors. Otherwise, you're gonna have to advertise every smartphone out there as an "iPhone killer";

5 - If this is a reaction to the lack of invitation to the Apple event, it's REALLY childish and uncalled for; MR members and readers have nothing to do with personal rants.

macUser2007
Aug 7, 2007, 12:04 PM
...Because really, I don't want to see any of those things on my Mac news site of choice. I think I'll be getting my event coverage today from another site, thank you.

Man, this is religion:-) Then close your eyes and ears and don't look at the links below.

BTW, this is not really a good comparo to the iPhone. While I do plan to get an iPhone when it goes to 3G (and hopefully has GPS,) there are some good options, which are a bit better than the one posted in the beginning article.

Here are a couple of links to stuff from HTC that's in more direct competition:

Due this Fall - has GPS, high-res screen, 3G: http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/04/htc-omni-revealed-with-gps-and-vga-tv-out/

Available now, touch interface, but no 3G and no GPS: http://www.mobiletechreview.com/phones/HTC-Touch.htm

The one I have, with 3G, GPS :http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2006/09/10/rundown-of-htcs-p3600-trinity-with-hsdpa/

Due in September - GPS, 3G, FM Radio, Slide-out keypad: http://www.mobilewhack.com/htc-nike-htc-p5550/

bpm2000
Aug 7, 2007, 12:25 PM
Really strange to see that on MR.
2 - That thing is NO COMPETITION to the iPhone;


Say what you will about the rest, but i need to get some of whatever you're smoking if you really think its not competition.

s10
Aug 7, 2007, 12:57 PM
This "advertise....eeeuh.. article" is a revenge for not being invited to the Apple event today. Macrumors lost revenue by not getting the clicks.

Badandy
Aug 7, 2007, 01:27 PM
Just don't insult our collective intelligence by suggesting it was a serious post meant to promote debate about the Ocean vs. iPhone. No it wasn't. We're not stupid. No backpedalling.

You see, MacRumors, it's because we care. We value you. A lot. So don't screw around with us for a personal laugh. Please.


The more I read of these "serious" responses the more I'm amazed at how many people in this world, and on MacRumors in particular, lack a humorous outlook on life. It will help you in the end to take things more light-heartedly. It isn't the end of the world if Arn posts something humorous that contradicts what we think he'll post. It was funny. Nothing happened from this, nothing bad will happen, it's really not a big deal. At all. But what this thread does reveal is that there is a large population of people on MacRumors who, I'm afraid, have lost site of the fact that life is to be enjoyed, and are so engulfed in seriousness that they can never have a good laugh. And don't quote me and say "But Badandy LOL. LIke, I was justT laUghHing teh other Dayz at something!~!one." No, you weren't laughing the other day. This thread has made it painfully obvious why you are all sitting on a website (as am I for a brief period of time) with nothing better to do except feeling honestly insulted and belittled because of a funny joke. PUT IT IN PERSPECTIVE. The regularity at which most of you get jokes is once every year, on April 1st. Try expanding that a bit.

Counter
Aug 7, 2007, 03:13 PM
Haha. If Arn did this because he didn't get an invite to the event that's fantastic. :D

Cleverboy
Aug 7, 2007, 05:02 PM
This thread has been positively hilarious... or disturbing... not sure which. All the Apple fanboys are showing their colors. "What! Well reasoned debate on the merits of the iPhone versus competitive offerings??? HOW DARE YOU!" :D

I'm going to use this thread as a cross-reference point in the future when wondering how level headed a particular MacRumors forum member is. It's deeply amusing the amount of members who think this was about some weirdo "vengeance" thing, "tongue in cheek" or "humor" post maybe... The only "humor" in it, is the kind of dark glee one has watching a dog chase its tail (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNMrrwo1m_A). You want to bend down and tell the Apple-fanatics quite calmly... its all right, its not the end of the world that the iPhone isn't the best solution for everyone.

That said, iPhone lover and proud of it! I even resent all this hacking crap, and pending admittedly anxiously awaited further development from Apple, believe strongly that Web 2.0 and required data plans are simply wonderful for the platform. --So, BAM.

~ CB

TheSlush
Aug 7, 2007, 05:06 PM
The more I read of these "serious" responses the more I'm amazed at how many people in this world, and on MacRumors in particular, lack a humorous outlook on life. It will help you in the end to take things more light-heartedly. It isn't the end of the world if Arn posts something humorous that contradicts what we think he'll post. It was funny. Nothing happened from this, nothing bad will happen, it's really not a big deal. At all. But what this thread does reveal is that there is a large population of people on MacRumors who, I'm afraid, have lost site of the fact that life is to be enjoyed, and are so engulfed in seriousness that they can never have a good laugh. And don't quote me and say "But Badandy LOL. LIke, I was justT laUghHing teh other Dayz at something!~!one." No, you weren't laughing the other day. This thread has made it painfully obvious why you are all sitting on a website (as am I for a brief period of time) with nothing better to do except feeling honestly insulted and belittled because of a funny joke. PUT IT IN PERSPECTIVE. The regularity at which most of you get jokes is once every year, on April 1st. Try expanding that a bit.

Screw that. I got the freakin joke, dude. Yes yes, knee-slappingly hilarious. But the only reason this is an issue at all is because MacRumors is legit. They're one of the big boys. They're the real deal. (And that's why Arn's insulted at not getting a deserved invitation in the first place.)

But MacRumors lost a tiny bit of legitimacy with this little joke. They took a small, small step away from being a legit rumor source in the direction of being a snarky blog. Is it a big deal in the grand scheme of all that is holy in the universe? No. Is it about being able to have a humorous outlook on life? NO. It's about MacRumors undermining itself, just a tiny bit, and for what? To poke Apple in the eye? That's fine, if MacRumors wants to be small time. But I think they deserve better.

monke
Aug 7, 2007, 05:11 PM
They really need to post a chart that actually compares the iPhone and the Helio Ocean.

iPod: iPhone - Yes, Helio Ocean - No
Touchscreen: iPhone - Yes, Helio Ocean - No
Compatible with iTunes: iPhone - Yes, Helio Ocean - No

You can see where this is headed. ;)

mkrishnan
Aug 7, 2007, 05:20 PM
I agree this thread is kind of a dead horse issue, but... what *are* the options for synchronizing PIM data with a Helio Ocean? iSync doesn't support it. As far as I know, neither do PocketMac or MissingSync. Does Vista? It doesn't seem to really be discussed on Helio's website.

Stang68
Aug 7, 2007, 06:20 PM
dont yell at me for saying this, but i have the LG enV from Verizon and I am very happy. It has the qwerty keyboard and all that good stuff. It can take up to an HOUR of video at pretty good quality and has a 2 megapixel camera. Its obviously not a full-blown smartphone but I am 19 and it is absoluetly awesome for my needs. I have the internet (nowhere near as good as the iPhones, though) Vcast Videos and ESPN mobile. Its great. The Helio looks like a good phone but I think you need Helios own service...why would you ever do that?!? Trust Verizon or At&t. I like the iPhone, but i just could not deal with the touchscreen keyboard...AGHHH!!
http://www.mobilepedia.eu/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/vzw_env.jpg

Cleverboy
Aug 7, 2007, 07:22 PM
Screw that. I got the freakin joke, dude. Yes yes, knee-slappingly hilarious. But the only reason this is an issue at all is because MacRumors is legit. They're one of the big boys. They're the real deal. (And that's why Arn's insulted at not getting a deserved invitation in the first place.)

But MacRumors lost a tiny bit of legitimacy with this little joke. They took a small, small step away from being a legit rumor source in the direction of being a snarky blog. Is it a big deal in the grand scheme of all that is holy in the universe? No. Is it about being able to have a humorous outlook on life? NO. It's about MacRumors undermining itself, just a tiny bit, and for what? To poke Apple in the eye? That's fine, if MacRumors wants to be small time. But I think they deserve better. Yo. Ear wax begone! Arn is NOT INSULTED at anything, and this post was NOT A JOKE. The "small time/big boys" references are intentionally intended to manipulate, but they're too obvious to be successful. It's like we're all supposed to be Pavlov's dog ready to salivate when you hit the bell... only you're trying to use any affection for the MacRumors website as a method of coercing agreement. Meh. Not interested.

The article posted, as written says... "Look, Helio Ocean is an alternative to the iPhone. Look, they've created a comparison chart showing how they would compare the two!" Apple news? Yup. People have been discussing Helio's Ocean as a potential iPhone killer for the last 6 months. Now we can look at both phones for how the SHIP. Helio's been actively advertising the comparison chart link on Mac-oriented websites through Google Ad words. Clearly they think its a worthy discussion, and they're completely right. If this website were called NokiaRumors, and someone posted an article about Apple putting its comparison chart up, saying that "iPhone a Worthy Competitor to the Nokia N95", it would make perfect sense provided they made a good argument for it.

So, let's get this straight:

Stop saying Arn wrote this for "revenge": While Arn can speak for himself, he already has (Arn:"--we've never been invited to Apple's media events over the past 7 years, and am not really expecting to get invited in the future. So, it didn't really bother me that much, I was just more public about the circumstances this time as people tend to expect MacRumorsLive coverage."). Moreover, what kind of "revenge" is this?
Stop saying this was meant as a "joke": While Arn can speak for himself, he already has (Arn: "It's not really pettiness. The timing was really intended to be humorous more than anything. Feel free to debate iphone vs helio. It is a serious post.")
Stop saying that a nice post like this one is the DOOM of MacRumors: Are you serious? You're not serious.
Stop saying that looking at non-Apple products fairly somehow undermines ANYTHING (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=329599). It really doesn't.


Knowledge and discussion makes you SMARTER and more competant in defending your point of view, or reaching new perspectives that are more accurate. It's certainly good to know that although some forum goers may suffer from such a state, MacRumors does not cater to "echo chamber" and "cult" thinking. What makes Apple, iPhone, and the Mac great is NOT because their users all "Think Similarly", its about taking a step back, and choosing to "Think Different". There's a reason why I've read everything about the Helio Ocean with an open mind and remain unimpressed. HINT: It's not because I chose to keep my mind closed.

~ CB

Undecided
Aug 8, 2007, 12:37 AM
I think you've nailed it. How has no one come up with this theory so far?

Yeah, OK, OK, I get the sarcasm.

iBlue
Aug 8, 2007, 01:20 AM
...
the best thing on this thread is this smiley from the post above:

http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/smilies/deadhorse.gif

i hope edesignuk's bandwith doesn't get used up by us using his smiley. i hope even more he doesn't change the pic to something nasty.....
Considering he's my husband I don't think he'll mind. ;)




Now (on topic) I'm glad people are starting to chill TFO. crikey!

http://upc.edesignuk.com/uploads/catmacros/crashedout.jpg

superdud
Aug 10, 2007, 11:57 AM
I actually bought the Ocean and returned it about 2 weeks later.

1. When you goto a website, the Helio browser automatically loads some type of MOBILE version first, then when its done loading it will ask you if you want to load the whole HTML version. Then when the HTML version is done the whole website looks all screwed up and is very hard to scroll through.

2. You can only access MOBILE youtube. It is not the full functioning website. Basically you can access maybe the most popular videos. but if you search for something such as naruto or DBZ (i am a big anime fan) nothing will come up.

3. My biggest gripe is AOL instant messenger. It lags! You can watch the videos on youtube. It can seriously take up to 20 seconds before you can send a message. If someone else sends you a message, then it takes another 5 seconds for ur phone to register. After a good few minutes of just loading time i presume, then AIM will function normally for awhile. If you leave the AIM application and come back though, same stuff all over agian. Pretty weird.

All those features they advertise sound awesome, but the whole phone seriously is not what you think. If anyone has any questions, feel free to email me. =)

Xacttech
Aug 13, 2007, 09:53 AM
I've been using the ocean for about 3 weeks now...

Decided it was worth a try sicne they have a very nice return policy 30 day dealy.

I wanted to Try out 3G, it doesn't feel 3G at all... I went from a BB pearl on edge to this phone, and honestly can't tell the difference, my guess is, the ocean's itself is too slow to make good use of othe 3G...

The GPS/faux GPS is really cool though, great for google maps, directions etc. And now that they have 3rd party apps taking advantage of the GPS, it even updates faster.

Buddy beacon is kind of cool as well... you can keep tabs on your girl so you know if you need to get the house in order before she's at the front door.

The camera works really well... The flash is cool, it also works as a flashlight which I'm going to miss... Plus the video was kind of neat, don't see me "really" using it, but cool to have none the less.

Great MP3 player too... Excellent sound, Stereo Bluetooth headset compatible, and all of the same answer mute, back to music playback that the iphone has...

I'm going to get the iphone... But I'm really going to miss the slide out keyboard... Really...

The iphone on screen qwerty is no replacement for an actual keypad IMO... I've played with the iphone over and over and I'm constantly making mistakes, didn't have this problem with the Ocean.

The main reason I'm switching to the iphone instead of keeping the ocean is it has sooo many 3rd party apps coming out for it, and rumored flash support coming soon. If the ocean could keep up with the 3rd party app creation I'd probably stay with helio... but for now I'll bite the $600 rip off bullet.

mobijunkie
Aug 15, 2007, 07:09 AM
I just got the <a href="http://www.mobijunkie.com">helio ocean</a> and i love it. it is the sidekick killer

Cleverboy
Aug 18, 2007, 10:47 AM
The main reason I'm switching to the iphone instead of keeping the ocean is it has sooo many 3rd party apps coming out for it, and rumored flash support coming soon. If the ocean could keep up with the 3rd party app creation I'd probably stay with helio... but for now I'll bite the $600 rip off bullet. You probably shouldn't get the iPhone based on 3rd party "hack" apps and promises of rumored features. I'm doubtful the "Flash" support will actually be "fully" integrated into ANY webpage, and will probably be done in a way similar to the Quicktime support (you have a little picture and a "Play" button on it, and hitting that button opens it in the media player). People have hacked into Helio Ocean too, and are starting to hack apps. Here's my thing though... buy the iPhone for the touchscren and MUCH better browser. Or something else it does "right". Not for these rumors and hacks.

Helio Ocean's web browser doesn't hold a candle to the iPhone (nothing does). iPhone might support stereo bluetooth in the future, but it doesn't now, so... again... don't buy it for promises. If I were you, I'd likely dump the Ocean and go to the iPhone simply because for what it does... its really good. For what it doesn't do, if it means THAT much to you, stay with another phone... with the understanding that unless you took advantage of a promotion, Helio Ocean will lock you in for 2 years too (its in their terms of service). I have MUCH higher opinions for the prospects on the iPhone, than I do that Helio (even without the hacks, although they certainly show what's possible). Controlling web browsing through four "cursor" buttons and a "select" button is for the birds. I never want to use another phone with a stylus (I always lose them) or "cursor" and "menu" keys.

The virtual predictive keyboard on the iPhone is a very important advance for speed, accuracy and effort, and a step back for tactile feedback and sightless operation. Personally, most tactile users are generally doing something they shouldn't (like texting while driving, or in the middle of something that should have their attention). For myself, I welcome that wonderful experience of not having to "push down" a physical button. My fingers FLY across the iPhone keyboard. I also never want to go back on that either. If someone wants me to switch from the iPhone, they're in for a serious challenge, although some seem to have accepted it.

~ CB

megfilmworks
Aug 18, 2007, 07:25 PM
After having my Iphone since iDay, I have gotten spoiled with the adaptive error correction. Picked up my friends Blackberry today to see how it used to feel to text on one and what a mess!!. I guess there is no going back. In fact MacRumours could use this feature to improve the standard spell correction.

macUser2007
Aug 23, 2007, 03:08 PM
O.K., I am kind of going to eat my words above.

Just picked up an iPhone for my wife, mostly on a whim, since she's been unhappy with the HTC and the flip I recently got her.

All I can say is "WOW!"

My HTC Trinity still does more (it has GPS, 3G, highly customized,) but the iPhone is just in a different league from any other phone I've ever seen.

It has it's problems (like no email sync, it lacks 3G and GPS, it's not easily customizable. But that UI is just amazing. It's easy, easy to use. It's actually a joy to use. And come to think of it, it does pretty much everything one really needs. And it does it well, for the most part.

So I take much of what I wrote above back. I spoke based on specs, and these don't tell the iPhone story.

BTW, my wife LOVES it:-)

Xacttech
Sep 6, 2007, 10:14 PM
I managed to "buck" the system a bit...

iphone was a rip at $599 (my opinion) and with no incentives, even for new Cingular(AT&T) contracts I thought it was even worse...

So I got a phone from Wirefly that should yield a $150 profit on ebay...

And ordered an iphone 8GB $349 refurb!!

So I'll be able to get into the iphone for $200 for the 8GB as opposed to the $599 I thought it was going to cost me a couple weeks ago...

nice.

Lucky736
Nov 14, 2007, 11:16 AM
In all seriousness. Does anyone have one of these? Have you been able to use it as a 3G Modem via Bluetooth? You can get the refurb for 99 bucks right now PLUS they have a 99 dollar all included plan. Unlimited text, data, net, voice, and everything else under the sun. If I could use it as a 3G modem I would consider it. Any thoughts?

jacktrades
Dec 8, 2007, 05:25 AM
It's time to put some of this junk to rest.

Apple makes superior computer and Superior Products all around!
I have been a fan of Apple since my first Mac LCII back before i even knew the difference between the Apple IIe and Macintosh OS. I did However get a PC as a hobby to play with hardware wise, as i would not dare waste my precious mac playing with things like over clocking. So Sue me. The fact is... even Apple makes mistakes. Not simply releasing OS X to any vendor was a mistake, and if they would open it up, Mac would be 100 times more successfull. A Similar mistake is the iPhone. The iPhone looks incredibly awesome for sure. BUT!!! it's available ONLY for AT&T. What of tho of us that HATE AT&T!? I used to love cingular... but you know what, as soon as AT&T took over again, service started to go downhill fast. I started looking at other carriers. IF APPLE had not made the agreement with AT&T to release the iPhone ONLY on their network... I would have gotten one. But aside from all that, how gives a rats @$$ what a phone can do as long as it does what you want it to. For example... the Ocean, does all the things I want from the iphone, it browses the web... in full html, it does decent games, it has txt msg etc. The difference is.. the plan.. i get all the good stuff, like unlimited txt msgs, unlimited internet/data transfer, email, music, videos, IM's like yahoo, msn, AIM, all included in my plan, unlike AT&T where it's your first born just to have and 1 single option unlimited.... not to mention.. with Helio, i can get unlimited day minutes for a decent price if i were so inclined... Something no other network that I am yet aware of offers. So for some people.... less than the best is all they need.

MacsAttack
Dec 8, 2007, 07:40 AM
It's time to put some of this junk to rest.


Nice Troll