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bmpwe
Aug 7, 2007, 12:46 PM
Check out the screenshots of where steve is showing the new iLife. There appear to be new icons for Keynote and a chart looking icon.

I looks like we're finally getting a new version of iWork.

Finally, I don't have to use excel.



xUKHCx
Aug 7, 2007, 12:51 PM
Totally can see the new icon at the end of the dock in this picture.

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/08/dsc_1331.jpg

bmpwe
Aug 7, 2007, 12:53 PM
Totally can see the new icon at the end of the dock in this picture.

On the same note... wonder what the star icon is?

Wild-Bill
Aug 7, 2007, 12:58 PM
On the same note... wonder what the star icon is?

That's the new iMovie icon.

xUKHCx
Aug 7, 2007, 01:05 PM
Looks like it will be announced any time soon (currently on Keynote), forgot to say congrats on your eagle eyes.

EDIT:
[2:03 PM] Numbers has Intelligent Tables, which allow you to more easily assemble formulas. You can sort and filter columns. Flexible Canvas - allows you to have multiple tables on one pags. Change something in one table, and the other tables, charts, etc. are unchanged. Also features Interactive printing. This is basically a preview mode that is highly interacive. There are customizable templates, and you can import and export to "almost all" Excel documents. Steve is demonstrating it now.

$79 for iWork

Doctor Q
Aug 7, 2007, 01:19 PM
Checkboxes in spreadsheet cells -- it seems so obvious.

I'm looking forward to getting my fingers on Numbers to try it out.

MacRumors
Aug 7, 2007, 01:22 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

As rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/07/30/apple-iwork-08/), Apple released iWork '08. In addition to updated Keynote and Pages, Apple introduced a new application to the suite for spreadsheets called Numbers. iWork '08 is available today for $79.

Keynote
-New text effects, transitions, themes
-Instant Alpha: take out the background of a photo
-Smart Builds: create your own animations

Pages
-Modes for word processing and page layout
-Contextual format bar
-Change tracking (compatible with MS Word)
-140 Apple designed templates

Numbers
-"Spreadsheets for the rest of us"
-Intelligent tables, readable formulas
-Can make gorgeous looking spreadsheets quickly
-Templates
-Import/Export Excel documents

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/iwork-08-introduced/)

Doctor Q
Aug 7, 2007, 01:25 PM
What does "import and export to almost all Excel documents" mean? What features aren't handled?

ksz
Aug 7, 2007, 01:25 PM
Another pleasant surprise with Numbers and immediate availability! This was a solid and satisfying event!

Flowbee
Aug 7, 2007, 01:25 PM
Ok, now I'll finally pull the trigger and buy iWork. Can't wait to play with Numbers.

bigandy
Aug 7, 2007, 01:26 PM
Methinks Office 04 be losing out to iWork 08 on my MBP :D

rocklobzter31
Aug 7, 2007, 01:26 PM
I know we have to buy the all new iLife for $79 but if we currently have iwork will we have to buy that too? (considering it came for free when you bought the mac) or software update?

CANEHDN
Aug 7, 2007, 01:27 PM
That's awesome news. I'm definitely buying this. I don't have to buy Office. Yipee.

xUKHCx
Aug 7, 2007, 01:30 PM
What does "import and export to almost all Excel documents" mean? What features aren't handled?

I guess time will tell the full extent but current reports are that no macro support.

superduperjacob
Aug 7, 2007, 01:31 PM
http://www.apple.com/iwork/

MacGeek Pro
Aug 7, 2007, 01:32 PM
I think I'll be purchasing the new iWork as soon as the store comes back up. Been waiting for this since January.

I am really excited about Numbers. I do imagine VBA support isn't there, though. Just a random guess. Time will tell.

elcerrito494
Aug 7, 2007, 01:33 PM
Isn't it ironic that Apple puts Numbers out the same day that they take the number pad off of their keyboard?

superduperjacob
Aug 7, 2007, 01:34 PM
Numbers look amazing
http://www.apple.com/iwork/numbers/

SMM
Aug 7, 2007, 01:34 PM
I know we have to buy the all new iLife for $79 but if we currently have iwork will we have to buy that too? (considering it came for free when you bought the mac) or software update?

iWork has never been free with a new purchase, iLife has. Did you just get these mixed up? Anyway, you will probably need to purchase both products.

cliffjumper68
Aug 7, 2007, 01:36 PM
Check out the screenshots of where steve is showing the new iLife. There appear to be new icons for Keynote and a chart looking icon.

I looks like we're finally getting a new version of iWork.

Finally, I don't have to use excel.

I can't wait to get off of work and head to the apple store, hopefully they have them in. I want to see if i can give MS office the boot for good!:D

Hairball
Aug 7, 2007, 01:37 PM
I think I'll be purchasing the new iWork as soon as the store comes back up. Been waiting for this since January.

I am really excited about Numbers. I do imagine VBA support isn't there, though. Just a random guess. Time will tell.


I couldn't agree more. When I get home form work tonight, I'll purchase iWork as well. So long Micro$oft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D

Doctor Q
Aug 7, 2007, 01:37 PM
I do imagine VBA support isn't there, though. Just a random guess. Time will tell.That's not a random guess. That's an educated guess, and almost surely correct. The question is: what else?

I don't care if the user interface is "pretty" until I'm finished with my work and showing it to others. I spend a lot of time in spreadsheets, and I'm willing to change my software and my habits (which menu choices and keystrokes and procedures I use), but it's the opportunity to be more efficient or effective that will convince me to switch.

bilbo--baggins
Aug 7, 2007, 01:38 PM
Hope that Numbers allows what's known as worksheets in Excel lingo. AppleWorks was useless for me as it couldn't open Excel files with multiple worksheets.

iJawn108
Aug 7, 2007, 01:39 PM
... this i might actually purchase as for ilife i could really give a crap.

shemp9999
Aug 7, 2007, 01:43 PM
Finally, I can remove appleworks and office from my computing life!

SMM
Aug 7, 2007, 01:44 PM
What does "import and export to almost all Excel documents" mean? What features aren't handled?

If I were to guess, it would be certain ActiveX controls, Access connections, .Net/VBA code. I will be in hog-heaven if Numbers can read most ODBC compliant data sources.

chrisgeleven
Aug 7, 2007, 01:45 PM
iWork looks like it is finally useful.

Wonder if I can convince the lady to let me run by the Apple Store tonight...

BenRoethig
Aug 7, 2007, 01:48 PM
The only thing that I didn't get what I asked for here is that Apple is stupidly making you pay extra for it. Should be bundled with every Mac.

monke
Aug 7, 2007, 01:50 PM
Thank you Apple! This is exactly what I wanted/needed. :)

twoodcc
Aug 7, 2007, 01:53 PM
alright! just what i wanted. can't wait to get my hands on this. now when will it be in my local apple store?

chrisgeleven
Aug 7, 2007, 01:55 PM
The only thing that I didn't get what I asked for here is that Apple is stupidly making you pay extra for it. Should be bundled with every Mac.

I imagine it could have something to do with not wanting to piss Microsoft off.

gmanrique
Aug 7, 2007, 01:56 PM
it does not look like that in the pictures on their website...

Isn't it ironic that Apple puts Numbers out the same day that they take the number pad off of their keyboard?

Morris
Aug 7, 2007, 01:57 PM
Isn't it ironic that Apple puts Numbers out the same day that they take the number pad off of their keyboard?

They haven't:
http://images.apple.com/imac/images/gallery/keyboard_1_20070807.jpg

elguille
Aug 7, 2007, 01:58 PM
Isn't it ironic that Apple puts Numbers out the same day that they take the number pad off of their keyboard?

there are two models of keyboard one wired with number pad and the second wireless without the number pad. you can check

http://www.apple.com/keyboard/
:D

cheunghy
Aug 7, 2007, 02:03 PM
This is the most exciting iWork update ever, period.

Father Jack
Aug 7, 2007, 02:03 PM
Thank you God .... :)
It's good to know all those candles were not in vein.

AlmostThere
Aug 7, 2007, 02:04 PM
I will be in hog-heaven if Numbers can read most ODBC compliant data sources.

JDBC option, pleeease - ODBC has been a nightmare on the Mac for me. That and Excel pivot table compatibility, which accounts for 90% of my Excel use.

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 02:07 PM
Numbers has just blown me away from those videos. Wow.

Gosh
Aug 7, 2007, 02:10 PM
If I were to guess, it would be certain ActiveX controls, Access connections, .Net/VBA code. I will be in hog-heaven if Numbers can read most ODBC compliant data sources.

what about open document format (Neo Office etc)?

pmppk
Aug 7, 2007, 02:11 PM
http://www.apple.com/iwork/trial/

WRXHokie
Aug 7, 2007, 02:13 PM
Change tracking allows this to be a viable option in the office. We use that feature of word the most, and this would allow us to change.

bbsBill
Aug 7, 2007, 02:14 PM
Isn't it ironic that Apple puts Numbers out the same day that they take the number pad off of their keyboard?

The wired keyboard DOES have the keypad. Only the bluetooth version does not. visit http://www.apple.com/keyboard/ for more info

djellison
Aug 7, 2007, 02:16 PM
YES YES YES YES YES YES

Animation in Keynote : I CAN DUMP POWERPOINT FOR EVER

I've been refreshing the store like crazy to order it again and again and again - just got my order in. It's like they read my mind and made Keynote to match what I need perfectly!

Doug

Steven.nevets
Aug 7, 2007, 02:18 PM
I have been waiting for iWork to come out since I got my new iMac in September. Finally a complete alternative to Office!!!

That iWork trial is probably the smartest thing they could have done. Even if you have iWork '06 on your hard drive, you can still try the 30-day demo for iWork '08!!! GO Apple!!!

Scalfani
Aug 7, 2007, 02:20 PM
YES YES YES YES YES YES

Animation in Keynote : I CAN DUMP POWERPOINT FOR EVER

I've been refreshing the store like crazy to order it again and again and again - just got my order in. It's like they read my mind and made Keynote to match what I need perfectly!

Doug

Agree totally. Hey did you guys also see the "remove background feature"!!!!! That is exactly what I need. I often have a picture and need to make the background translucent. This is very hard to do if you're like me and don't have any photoshop experience. super happy. :)

satty
Aug 7, 2007, 02:21 PM
I most certainly say good-by to the last PowerPC/Microsoft application on my Mac: Excel.

Okay, if someone needs VBA, it might be a different story, but I don't and I use it very often, in fact more often than Pages and Keynotes combined.

Import/Export from/to MS XML format, even before MS office for Mac has the ability ... makes me wonder if MS actually bothers to release the software next year. Were there not rumours that the new MS office also can't do VBA? How much does MS want to charge for their office product, when it has hardly more functionality than iWorks?

chrisgeleven
Aug 7, 2007, 02:21 PM
Bunch of tutorials here:

http://www.apple.com/iwork/tutorials/

There is no option to export to OpenOffice format. PDF, Excel, and CSV are the options.

Peace
Aug 7, 2007, 02:22 PM
I gotta admit after looking over iWork.It's gonna give Office a run for it's money..

Buying it as soon as the store goes back online. :rolleyes:

Steven Jackson
Aug 7, 2007, 02:23 PM
So if there's a demo for the new iWork, is there any need to buy the boxed version? Can I just downoad the demo then buy a key online to continue using after 30 days? Please, please let it be so!

And if that's the case, can I do the same with iLife? Trouble is, there doesn't seem to be a link to a trial of iLife...

Steve.

Scalfani
Aug 7, 2007, 02:23 PM
anyone know if iwork will be 49 bucks for students? And do students get discounts on Ilife? Store is still down so i can't check this out.

Eider
Aug 7, 2007, 02:26 PM
Hmm...I'm actually not yet convinced by Numbers. Some cool ideas and great presentation, but it looks pretty lightweight on the data analysis, heavy number-crunching side - you know, the practical bits that make it a tool rather than an art kit.

Also, does it annoy anyone else that Office files have to be "imported" and "exported"? A little slow on my G4.

Have to wait and try it, I suppose, or wait for someone to tell me otherwise. I'm keeping Office for the moment though.

Urk...I hope I don't get flamed for my first post here. I love Apple, I really do...

Teucer
Aug 7, 2007, 02:30 PM
anyone know if iwork will be 49 bucks for students? And do students get discounts on Ilife? Store is still down so i can't check this out.

Well the price drop in the UK for edu discount is only 5 which is about $10....

chrisgeleven
Aug 7, 2007, 02:31 PM
Hmm...I'm actually not yet convinced by Numbers. Some cool ideas and great presentation, but it looks pretty lightweight on the data analysis, heavy number-crunching side - you know, the practical bits that make it a tool rather than an art kit.

Also, does it annoy anyone else that Office files have to be "imported" and "exported"? A little slow on my G4.

Have to wait and try it, I suppose, or wait for someone to tell me otherwise. I'm keeping Office for the moment though.

Urk...I hope I don't get flamed for my first post here. I love Apple, I really do...

iWork is designed for the student or the home user who wants to do some fairly basic to maybe intermediate documents/spreadsheets. If you want more then that, Office is for you.

simontarr
Aug 7, 2007, 02:36 PM
This is being purchased immediately.

I can use Excel perfectly well, but it just feels like a real chore every time I have to use it, even for the simple stuff. Numbers looks far less taxing on the brain. I'm gonna try the demo and see if it's as good as the Apple PR stuff on their website.

Speedracer04
Aug 7, 2007, 02:38 PM
When it says its able to Import/Export into excel/word/powerpoint, does that mean I can make a spreadsheet/presentation in iWork, save it as a powerpoint doc but it will still keep all the flare of keynote/pages?

Also, does that mean I can make a really complicated spreadsheet in excel, import it into numbers to spruce up the styling and the visual appeal and then export it again and keep all the effects?

If so that would be AMAZING!

ortuno2k
Aug 7, 2007, 02:41 PM
anyone know if iwork will be 49 bucks for students? And do students get discounts on Ilife? Store is still down so i can't check this out.

I'm also looking for this - store was down lat time I checked.
I hope there's a discount, I believe there was a discount on the '06 version of both suites.

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 02:43 PM
When it says its able to Import/Export into excel/word/powerpoint, does that mean I can make a spreadsheet/presentation in iWork, save it as a powerpoint doc but it will still keep all the flare of keynote/pages?

Also, does that mean I can make a really complicated spreadsheet in excel, import it into numbers to spruce up the styling and the visual appeal and then export it again and keep all the effects?

If so that would be AMAZING!


Highly unlikely.

You would probably have to export a presentation to Flash or Quicktime to get the full effects when presenting on a PC.

And PDF for spreadsheets.

Apple reaaaally need to release an iWork viewer for Windows.

Kelmon
Aug 7, 2007, 02:45 PM
Anyone else thinking that Microsoft's recent announcement that Universal Binary Office:mac is going to be delayed until January is going to blow up on them more than expected after this release? Seriously, if you don't need all of Office's functions then iWork '08 looks like it'll do the business for you with the added advantage that it's available right now. I'm going to be giving this some serious thought.

chrisgeleven
Aug 7, 2007, 02:48 PM
When it says its able to Import/Export into excel/word/powerpoint, does that mean I can make a spreadsheet/presentation in iWork, save it as a powerpoint doc but it will still keep all the flare of keynote/pages?

Also, does that mean I can make a really complicated spreadsheet in excel, import it into numbers to spruce up the styling and the visual appeal and then export it again and keep all the effects?

If so that would be AMAZING!

Depends on what "flare" you used. I imagine if Office has a similar feature it would convert more or less intact. If it doesn't, then it may be degraded or not work at all.

Usually though, that is only for the real higher end features. Everything else should be practically identical between iWork and Office.

Really, it is tough to say until people start using iWork and do test conversions of major presentations/spreadsheets/docs.

nuckinfutz
Aug 7, 2007, 02:48 PM
I'm going to buy Leopard and iWork/iLife 08 in October.

That's going to be a fun month for me. I love numbers. It looks like a Spreadsheet for the rest of us. Well done Apple. iLife is a winner as well.

stomer
Aug 7, 2007, 02:52 PM
Anyone know what the default file format is? ODF?

artefact2001
Aug 7, 2007, 02:58 PM
i got my new macbook pro delivered today, what's the chance of apple giving me iLife, seen as it was only released today???!!

dubby
Aug 7, 2007, 03:00 PM
just for clarification purposes... ilife '08 - bundled with leopard... iWork - seperate? So if I was planning on purchasing Leopard it would make the most sense to buy iWork now and hold off on purchasing iLife, so I'm not paying for it twice.

EDIT: sorry, I meant I needed clarification... not that I was offering it.

pale9
Aug 7, 2007, 03:03 PM
apple.de ist up.

ortuno2k
Aug 7, 2007, 03:04 PM
just for clarification purposes... ilife '08 - bundled with leopard... iWork - seperate? So if I was planning on purchasing Leopard it would make the most sense to buy iWork now and hold off on purchasing iLife, so I'm not paying for it twice.

Okay, where did you get this info from?

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 03:05 PM
Going to love playing with Keynote 08.

http://images.apple.com/iwork/keynote/images/keynote_gallery04_20070807.jpg

AlmostThere
Aug 7, 2007, 03:07 PM
iWork is designed for the student or the home user who wants to do some fairly basic to maybe intermediate documents/spreadsheets. If you want more then that, Office is for you.

Problem is, that is not the way many contributors put things - good few comments here already about dropping MS Office for iWork, although chances are if you can do this, you probably didn't need Office in the first place. Apple don't help themselves either, touting Office interoperability and analytic functionality, but that's just the reality of marketing.

Anyway, downloaded the demo and little sign of the key Excel features I need, so will be Excel that I continue to use ...

Cromulent
Aug 7, 2007, 03:11 PM
just for clarification purposes... ilife '08 - bundled with leopard... iWork - seperate? So if I was planning on purchasing Leopard it would make the most sense to buy iWork now and hold off on purchasing iLife, so I'm not paying for it twice.

iLife is bundled with new computers not with Leopard. If you are not buying a new computer you will need to buy iLife separately even if you buy Leopard.

Speedracer04
Aug 7, 2007, 03:13 PM
I dont know if Ill really ever be able to switch to iWork. Im too used to MS office and know MS really has their act together in terms of buisness standard office documents and functionality. It believe it will be very hard to switch those of us who have been using office everyday in the workforce forever.

Other than that, I use my Mac for everything :p

I know that apple's docs will look pretty but I have a feeling especially numbers will fall far short of MS Excel. I mean seriously....are they really advertising that they are able to make comments on documents or that basic tools (see: Bold, Underline, Italic) are going to be easily available? MS had this in '98. Not to mention all of the formulas capability.

smueboy
Aug 7, 2007, 03:14 PM
With Office for Mac getting pushed back until next year, i think it is time for me to look into iWork...

RedTomato
Aug 7, 2007, 03:17 PM
Also, does that mean I can make a really complicated spreadsheet in excel, import it into numbers to spruce up the styling and the visual appeal and then export it again and keep all the effects?

If so that would be AMAZING!

Er, maybe my pants are showing, but why would you want to add fancy visual effects to a *spreadsheet*?

Nothing would make me more suspicious than a table of numbers with aqua reflection, pinstriping, go-faster-stripes, and shimmering stars effects.

willybNL
Aug 7, 2007, 03:19 PM
I'm quite sure I read something about a TRAIL to download?

Where is the URL?

idea_hamster
Aug 7, 2007, 03:20 PM
Did anyone notice that the "Watch Demo" video at New in Numbers '08. (http://www.apple.com/iwork/numbers/) for Charts, Images, Text Lables. is actually the same video as for Flexible Canvas.?

No real harm, but I kinda wanted to see the charts demo! :confused:

garfield2002
Aug 7, 2007, 03:26 PM
iWork and iLife 08' are showing as $71 each in the education Apple store. I seem to recall that these were $59 for students with the last versions. Oh well. I am now worried that the student discount for Leopard will also be small. :(

bobrik
Aug 7, 2007, 03:29 PM
Hi,

does anyone know if the new iWork finally supports the OpenDocument Format (ODF)?

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 03:29 PM
Did anyone notice that the "Watch Demo" video at New in Numbers '08. (http://www.apple.com/iwork/numbers/) for Charts, Images, Text Lables. is actually the same video as for Flexible Canvas.?

No real harm, but I kinda wanted to see the charts demo! :confused:

Yep. Same thing happens in some of the Tutorials.

davidmyers
Aug 7, 2007, 03:31 PM
Who the heck voted negative? Numbers! That's huuuuge.

kddpop
Aug 7, 2007, 03:31 PM
iWork and iLife 08' are showing as $71 each in the education Apple store. I seem to recall that these were $59 for students with the last versions. Oh well. I am now worried that the student discount for Leopard will also be small. :(

thats my recollection as well. but i hadn't thought of the possibility of a lesser discount on leopard too...until now...bummer.

either way, it still is a GREAT deal...both ilife and leopard.

~kyle

Damitri
Aug 7, 2007, 03:36 PM
Has anyone been able to figure out if Keynote (or even Numbers) now support error bars? This has always been my one big issue with Keynote. Apple is strong in the education/scientific market segment so I never understood how they could omit such a simple thing in their presentation software.

Keynote is pretty much useless for presenting even very basic scientific data because of this. I use it anyway but for all my graphs I have to drop out to Excel or some other software and then import them as images into Keynote. That ruins much of the idea with all the good looking themes and transitions... :mad:

I also looked through all the PR material on Numbers but was not able to see any images of or references to error bars. They have to support them to be able to properly import from Excel, right? I would actually not be at all surprised if error bars are not supported in Numbers. I love Apple in many ways but if there is one company that would easily trade basic functionality for pretty graphics it is them...:(

JackArc
Aug 7, 2007, 03:37 PM
Is the 30-day free trial for iWork not working for anyone else or is it just me>?

kddpop
Aug 7, 2007, 03:40 PM
im very excited about iwork.
i have gotten to be very comfortable in pages for layout of fliers and posters.
and adding a word processor to it is just great.

i work with excel all day at work on a wintel box. but mostly just simple stuff. names and numbers with very little calculation. "numbers" is probably more than i will need. i just hope the import/export feature works. nothing fancy. however i would need "sheets" from excel to work in iwork. am i alone in that? my boss requires multiple sheets per workbook in excel. is this normal? so normal that apple will be compelled to support that in numbers?

cant wait to try it out.
~kyle

chrisgeleven
Aug 7, 2007, 03:43 PM
Anyone know if Apple Stores have the new iLife and iWork in stock?

Quixcube
Aug 7, 2007, 03:45 PM
Hmm... Anyone know if they finally added autosave to Pages. It has been *incredibly* lame not to have it. Let me tell you, nothing makes an unexpected crash more unpleasant than relaunching Pages, finding a nice blank white page where your work used to be, and remembering "oh yeah," this is the program that doesn't do nice things to make your life easier for you.

ortuno2k
Aug 7, 2007, 03:45 PM
iWork and iLife 08' are showing as $71 each in the education Apple store. I seem to recall that these were $59 for students with the last versions. Oh well. I am now worried that the student discount for Leopard will also be small. :(

I also noticed this, the price is higher than before.
:(
Still gonna buy it though.

kddpop
Aug 7, 2007, 03:47 PM
Has anyone been able to figure out if Keynote (or even Numbers) now support error bars? This has always been my one big issue with Keynote. Apple is strong in the education/scientific market segment so I never understood how they could omit such a simple thing in their presentation software.

Keynote is pretty much useless for presenting even very basic scientific data because of this. I use it anyway but for all my graphs I have to drop out to Excel or some other software and then import them as images into Keynote. That ruins much of the idea with all the good looking themes and transitions... :mad:

I also looked through all the PR material on Numbers but was not able to see any images of or references to error bars. They have to support them to be able to properly import from Excel, right? I would actually not be at all surprised if error bars are not supported in Numbers. I love Apple in many ways but if there is one company that would easily trade basic functionality for pretty graphics it is them...:(

i have no idea what error bars are. i guess im unscientific. but this sounds like an important feature for you. but, it also sounds like its a feature that is not important for the demographic that apple is targeting with iwork.

i dont think apple is considering iwork an Office replacement. it will be for some (perhaps me). but for many who rely daily on some specific features in excel or powerpoint, they will probably have to stick it out with Office.

thats my perception anyway. i would love for apple to quickly beef up iwork to actually become an office replacement and really market it as an office replacement. we shall have to wait and see...

~kyle

kddpop
Aug 7, 2007, 03:48 PM
Anyone know if Apple Stores have the new iLife and iWork in stock?

im wondering this too....

might be time to give em a call...

i will report back with my findings.

~kyle

BlackDan
Aug 7, 2007, 03:53 PM
Bunch of tutorials here:

http://www.apple.com/iwork/tutorials/

There is no option to export to OpenOffice format. PDF, Excel, and CSV are the options.

for PDF just "print" and then select "save", or "preview" and save it from preview... Works in (almost) every app

nsbio
Aug 7, 2007, 03:54 PM
Looks like MS Office is the only possible way to go for 10.3.9 users.

dubby
Aug 7, 2007, 04:00 PM
iLife is bundled with new computers not with Leopard. If you are not buying a new computer you will need to buy iLife separately even if you buy Leopard.

Thanks for the info... I knew that didn't make sense.

Frankie

DakotaGuy
Aug 7, 2007, 04:05 PM
Well it looks like I will be the only one here that is going to wait for Office 2008. I use Office at the school where I teach and at the Guard unit where I work, so it is just easier to use a similar program whether I am on a PC or a Mac. I don't hate the product just because it is Microsoft. Office for Mac is a very solid, well designed program. If it was junk, I would probably switch and learn all the in's and out's of the new program, but it works well.

When I send my boss a file, I never have to worry about what is going to happen when they open in Office at the other end, because I know it will look perfect. This is just my opinion so don't go off on me for saying that a Microsoft product is good.

kddpop
Aug 7, 2007, 04:06 PM
just called the apple store at pennsquare mall in oklahoma city.

they have both ilife and iwork in stock.

as per usual, they do not offer the education discount at the brick and mortar stores.

but they do have it. cool

~kyle

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 04:11 PM
Well it looks like I will be the only one here that is going to wait for Office 2008. I use Office at the school where I teach and at the Guard unit where I work, so it is just easier to use a similar program whether I am on a PC or a Mac. I don't hate the product just because it is Microsoft. Office for Mac is a very solid, well designed program. If it was junk, I would probably switch and learn all the in's and out's of the new program, but it works well.

When I send my boss a file, I never have to worry about what is going to happen when they open in Office at the other end, because I know it will look perfect. This is just my opinion so don't go off on me for saying that a Microsoft product is good.


As somebody who uses Office 2007 at work - I cant even open docx, xlsx files on my Mac using Office 2004. The biggest perpetrators of file incompatibility for Office are Microsoft themselves. They routinely break the format for older versions of Office.

But I disgress.

The OOBE/EULA dialogs in iWork are a bit swanky arent they?

koobcamuk
Aug 7, 2007, 04:14 PM
i have no idea what error bars are...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_bars

They are really important to me. I use IGOR for all my data needs. Never use excel, people!

macrev
Aug 7, 2007, 04:22 PM
Another pleasant surprise with Numbers and immediate availability! This was a solid and satisfying event!

I just left the Apple Store an hour ago with iLife and iWork in my hands...

macrev
Aug 7, 2007, 04:24 PM
just called the apple store at pennsquare mall in oklahoma city.

they have both ilife and iwork in stock.

as per usual, they do not offer the education discount at the brick and mortar stores.

but they do have it. cool

~kyle

Education discount is only $8 now where before iLife was $20 and iWork was $30. Not much reason to order online and wait a week. I get ed discount but just went and picked up my copiess and decided against waiting.

cxswain
Aug 7, 2007, 04:26 PM
maybe no one wants to answer this, but isn't it true that even with the single pack that there is not a limit on downloads? Cause I know i never had to enter a code for iWork '06 like i did for Office

macridah
Aug 7, 2007, 04:28 PM
Is there an update price for existing users?

pengu
Aug 7, 2007, 04:34 PM
Hope that Numbers allows what's known as worksheets in Excel lingo. AppleWorks was useless for me as it couldn't open Excel files with multiple worksheets.

yeah, the Numbers page on apple.com shows a screenshot with the worksheets shown in the sidebar on the left.

atsang
Aug 7, 2007, 04:36 PM
just installed iwork 08 trial. good news for keynote users, we can now resize the viewer thumbnails. No more squinting!!! :):apple::)

paulbaker
Aug 7, 2007, 04:36 PM
I got mine at the Plano, TX Apple store. Everyone in the store was running around like mad, didn't know if they could sell it to me or not!. I finally had to get mad and threaten to leave before someone brought out a copy for me!. I could not wait to get home. I stopped at Star$$$$ and installed it.

I feel like a kid in a candy store! Finally, Apple really does like "computer" users!

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 04:40 PM
Really liking some of these templates.

kddpop
Aug 7, 2007, 04:43 PM
maybe no one wants to answer this, but isn't it true that even with the single pack that there is not a limit on downloads? Cause I know i never had to enter a code for iWork '06 like i did for Office

this is true. you're able to install multiple seats of ilife/iwork using just the single user license copy. but that's just it. you have purchased a license for a single user on a single machine. as steve jobs would say, "it's your karma, man."

the family pack sells for $99 (both edu and regular store)
not a bad deal for 5 seats of the coolest software!

~kyle

willybNL
Aug 7, 2007, 04:44 PM
just installed iwork 08 trial. good news for keynote users, we can now resize the viewer thumbnails. No more squinting!!! :):apple::)

What is the URL... I can't find it (re-post).

IJ Reilly
Aug 7, 2007, 04:45 PM
When it says its able to Import/Export into excel/word/powerpoint, does that mean I can make a spreadsheet/presentation in iWork, save it as a powerpoint doc but it will still keep all the flare of keynote/pages?

Of course not! Keynote is in a completely separate league from PowerPoint. Exporting Keynote presentations to PowerPoint works, but it makes them primitive.

aafuss1
Aug 7, 2007, 04:47 PM
Of course not! Keynote is in a completely separate league from PowerPoint. Exporting Keynote presentations to PowerPoint works, but it makes them primitive.

Does Keynote support importing Powerpoint 2007 .pptx?

celebi23
Aug 7, 2007, 04:51 PM
www.apple.com/iwork/trial/

there's the link. It seems that Apple isn't making that page easy to find.

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 04:52 PM
Man, the way numbers separates tables is kind of mindblowing. It requires a fundamental change in way of thinking for those of us who have used Excel for years.

ortuno2k
Aug 7, 2007, 04:53 PM
www.apple.com/iwork/trial/

there's the link. It seems that Apple isn't making that page easy to find.

I found it way ealier today while browsing the site but couldn't find it now to download it when I got home. Thanks to MC I got the link!

Anyways, I'm download it now but the download rate is VERY slow, about 34.3 kb for me, but everything else is working fast.
Their servers must be loaded!

aafuss1
Aug 7, 2007, 04:53 PM
I also noticed this, the price is higher than before.
:(
Still gonna buy it though.

Cheaper here:$99 compared to $119 for '06. I'll buy it after iLife.

Numbers can import .xlsx (Excel 2007 format), Pages can work with .docx, Microsoft Office PowerPoint 2007 (Office Open XML) too.

Although, Smart Art should have inspired Apple to create something similar for organizational charts.

Scalfani
Aug 7, 2007, 04:56 PM
My first impression of Numbers after fooling around with it for about an hour is that it will sadly be a complement to Excel for me, and not a replacement.

I find it very difficult to edit parts of graphs like series, labels, etc. Also There are not enough data point options. For example there is no option to have no data point and just display lines ( I may not have found it yet, so don't flame me). See attached pdf of a graph i made in Excel for what i'm talking about. I tried for about a half hour to try and reproduce something similar to that graph in Numbers, and I just couldn't find the options. Maybe they are there, but I sure can't find em.

I think Numbers is going to be really nice though for great looking lists, plans, and simple sexy looking graphs. I've already started to make my own Wedding plan spreadsheet from the awesome template Apple provided. I plan to continue to use Numbers and really learn how to use it.


Numbers is definitely a great first spreadsheet, and I think a lot of people will find it as a perfect replacement, but for the long time excel users like me it will be very difficult to duplicate the options we are used to.

Cooknn
Aug 7, 2007, 04:56 PM
Numbers looks sweet. I might miss Excel's Auto Filter though. From watching the tutorials, looks like the Filter tool is kind of basic. I'm downloading the Trial right now. Looking forward to digging in to Pages as well :D

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 04:56 PM
Does Keynote support importing Powerpoint 2007 .pptx?

I just imported a pptx file no problem. It popped up a list of incompatibilities which were just missing fonts (specifically Segoe) and some issues rendering smart art. It even carried over my Comments on various slides (the little stickie notes you can place).

Overall, a very impressive import. And a damning indictment on the MBU!

boeingair
Aug 7, 2007, 04:58 PM
www.apple.com/iwork/trial/


THANK YOU!! :apple:

IJ Reilly
Aug 7, 2007, 04:59 PM
iWork is designed for the student or the home user who wants to do some fairly basic to maybe intermediate documents/spreadsheets. If you want more then that, Office is for you.

I'm sorry, but this is complete and utter baloney. I've been using iWork for all of my business work since it came out, over a year and a half now. I find Pages more than adequate for producing complicated documents. I have never, even once, wished I was using Office instead.

FWIW, probably 99% of the Excel spreadsheets I receive are simple tables, which don't include even a single calculation. Apparently, the majority of people who think Office is "for them" really ought to be using something less complicated.

celebi23
Aug 7, 2007, 04:59 PM
THANK YOU!! :apple:

no problem :)

thomasfxlt
Aug 7, 2007, 05:04 PM
The jury is out on Numbers, but I suspect it will do what it needs to for me. I've never been much of a Pages fan, but I was pleased to see that the new version features a "word processing" mode. When you need to type a simple letter, sometimes too much "interface" gets in the way.

I think this is a nice evolution of iWork.

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 05:08 PM
I'm sorry, but this is complete and utter baloney. I've been using iWork for all of my business work since it came out, over a year and a half now. I find Pages more than adequate for producing complicated documents. I have never, even once, wished I was using Office instead.

FWIW, probably 99% of the Excel spreadsheets I receive are simple tables, which don't include even a single calculation. Apparently, the majority of people who think Office is "for them" really ought to be using something less complicated.

I am thoroughly impressed with what they achieved with version 1. Lots of fresh, innovative ideas in here that challenge the concept of what a spreadsheet is and how useful they can be for not only the student and home user, but for the average business user too. I would venture to say that 80% of all real usage of Excel can be done in Numbers despite it only having 20% of the features.

IJ Reilly
Aug 7, 2007, 05:09 PM
Does Keynote support importing Powerpoint 2007 .pptx?

Yes. (http://www.apple.com/iwork/keynote/#share)

Scalfani
Aug 7, 2007, 05:09 PM
on a better note, updates to pages and keynote look amazing, definitely worth the 80 bucks.

axisdrama
Aug 7, 2007, 05:15 PM
I know that some hate WYSIWYG font menus because they create a performance lag, but they can be useful. Have they added a WYSIWYG font menu option or do I have to open up the traditional, space-hogging font window and toy with that?

Eider
Aug 7, 2007, 05:16 PM
I'm sorry, but this is complete and utter baloney. I've been using iWork for all of my business work since it came out, over a year and a half now. I find Pages more than adequate for producing complicated documents. I have never, even once, wished I was using Office instead.


Documents are mostly about looks, and I'll be among the first to say that the iWork suite manages style in spades. Keynote, especially, is wonderful. It's just that I, and a very large number of other people, might need something more capable.
From what people have been saying, it sounds like Numbers does what it tries to do pretty well, but you lost me at "no error bars."

bellis1
Aug 7, 2007, 05:16 PM
I think the scientists or academics out there are going to be disappointed with numbers. It looks slick and has a similar set of functions to excel, but the graphing is way too basic. No error bars, no regression, no curve fitting, etc. Its a shame that Apple has has gone to far in simplify things for the everyday user. God forbid there is an extra menu or interface for more complex tasks. I really wanted to dump excel so badly and the rest of the features are spot on.

erikistired
Aug 7, 2007, 05:18 PM
as per usual, they do not offer the education discount at the brick and mortar stores.

i've always been able to get the edu discount at the store here in atlanta.

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 05:20 PM
I know that some hate WYSIWYG font menus because they create a performance lag, but they can be useful. Have they added a WYSIWYG font menu option or do I have to open up the traditional, space-hogging font window and toy with that?

Its a toolbar drop down, not WYSIWYG, not a Font window.

IJ Reilly
Aug 7, 2007, 05:26 PM
Documents are mostly about looks, and I'll be among the first to say that the iWork suite manages style in spades. Keynote, especially, is wonderful. It's just that I, and a very large number of other people, might need something more capable.

Capable of what, precisely?

BTW, has anyone found iWork '08 listed on Amazon yet? I thought they were taking preorders at least, but I can't find it.

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 05:26 PM
I think the scientists or academics out there are going to be disappointed with numbers. It looks slick and has a similar set of functions to excel, but the graphing is way too basic. No error bars, no regression, no curve fitting, etc. Its a shame that Apple has has gone to far in simplify things for the everyday user. God forbid there is an extra menu or interface for more complex tasks. I really wanted to dump excel so badly and the rest of the features are spot on.

You have to look at it as a version 1 product. Its simply impossible for them to recreate the functionality of an entrenched rival thats been on the market for a couple of decades.

So you spread the net as wide as you can in the time allocated. They probably got 80% of the real world usage spreadsheet market with version 1. The next 15% may take several releases to hit as the returns start to diminish. The final 5% perhaps too niche.

Virgil-TB2
Aug 7, 2007, 05:37 PM
What does "import and export to almost all Excel documents" mean? What features aren't handled?Just a guess, but I would think that this is about the formulas and scripts. Numbers couldn't possibly have every Excel function ever made on the first iteration for instance.

I would bet that importing an Excel sheet with some fancy calculations or (especially) VB crap in it would give you the message that it could not be done. As long as no one emails you a spreadsheet from some hard-core Windows only place though, it will probably work.

Ha ze
Aug 7, 2007, 05:44 PM
So i went out this afternoon and bought both of the new iPackages, and my MacBook keeps kicking iWork out of the drive, iLife installed fine.

I dont know if the Apple store is going to exchange it or what

MacJoe
Aug 7, 2007, 05:48 PM
Is the 30-day free trial for iWork not working for anyone else or is it just me>?

I'm downloading it now.

I had trouble finding it. I tried going to Apple's website but saw no sign of it. Even the only Apple Store rep (spoke via chat...way cool) knew nothing about it and couldn't find any mention of it. Then I came here and found the link on the front page. Go figure.

IJ Reilly
Aug 7, 2007, 05:49 PM
So i went out this afternoon and bought both of the new iPackages, and my MacBook keeps kicking iWork out of the drive, iLife installed fine.

I dont know if the Apple store is going to exchange it or what

I'm sure they will exchange it if you ask, but another solution for you is to download the trial version and use the authorization code for the copy you just bought. Unless Apple has changed something, the trial version is time-limited but otherwise feature-complete.

Virgil-TB2
Aug 7, 2007, 05:50 PM
Anyone else thinking that Microsoft's recent announcement that Universal Binary Office:mac is going to be delayed until January is going to blow up on them more than expected after this release? Seriously, if you don't need all of Office's functions then iWork '08 looks like it'll do the business for you with the added advantage that it's available right now. I'm going to be giving this some serious thought.It's kind of interesting also that the new iWork reads all the new Office formats.

Where I work now (a University) everyone is getting screwed by the new format because there is no way to really open them on a Mac. They have to be sent back to the student along with an explanation of how to use "SaveAs.." (instead of the default "Save"), and instructions to pick a decent file format.

Now we know iWork will open these things we will probably be buying everyone a copy just for this purpose.

I think after five months or so of opening Word documents in iWork, that the average Mac user will wonder why in the hell they should buy the new Office when it's *also* a completely new interface anyway. The only hope Microsoft has here is to put a mode into the new Office that replicates the original interface again so as to entice switchers back to Office. But then that will take even longer.

Who wants to bet that the next Office actually comes out closer to next Summer? :)

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 05:55 PM
That alpha tool is phenomenal. I also love the Smart Builds. So much good stuff in here.

StuPidQPid
Aug 7, 2007, 05:57 PM
I think the scientists or academics out there are going to be disappointed with numbers. It looks slick and has a similar set of functions to excel, but the graphing is way too basic. No error bars, no regression, no curve fitting, etc. Its a shame that Apple has has gone to far in simplify things for the everyday user. God forbid there is an extra menu or interface for more complex tasks. I really wanted to dump excel so badly and the rest of the features are spot on.

Yep, same omissions affect me too.
Error bars definitely a big omission.
However, my needs are hardly mainstream!
Hopefully the second version will allow more control over graphing.
Also a few more statistical functions would be good - but again can't really expect to have the "F-test" in the first version!

BTW for those wondering, you can purchase the trial version just by entering your purchased serial number. No need to travel to any Apple Store...

chrisgeleven
Aug 7, 2007, 05:58 PM
Well I have just installed iWork Trial.

Numbers is fantastic for normal everyday users. The included templates are a great starting point and you can really make some nice spreadsheets real quick.

Yes it isn't Excel. There are features missing. But for probably 80% of the people who need a spreadsheet program at home, Numbers is as good as it gets.

For a nice template to experiment on, try out the Team Organization template. Yes you can probably do the same thing in Excel, but it wouldn't nearly look as good and definitely could not be created from scratch as quickly as you can in Numbers.

I have already uninstalled iWork '06 and Office 2004. All due to a 30-day trial! Never going back to Office after using this.

IJ Reilly
Aug 7, 2007, 06:02 PM
BTW for those wondering, you can purchase the trial version just by entering your purchased serial number. No need to travel to any Apple Store...

How do you get a serial number without buying a box?

Virgil-TB2
Aug 7, 2007, 06:03 PM
... I (sic) have gotten to be very comfortable in pages for layout of fliers and posters.
and adding a word processor to it is just great. ~kyleI am disappointed in this myself. Pages is okay for basic stuff but as a writer I need real word processing.

I am especially miffed that they *say* they have added a word processing mode, when in fact they don't seem to have done that at all. I find this a bit deceptive.

If you look carefully at the tutorial, you can see that their idea of a word processing mode is simply to add page layout templates that conform to tasks that are usually done with a word processor. The "section breaks" are not section breaks but new template insertions, and if you hit the return key you won't get a new line, you will just confirm your changes on that template.

This ****** up mixing of page layout tools and word processing tools is exactly what makes MS Word so unwieldy and bug-ridden. A lot of folks don't *want* to "click anywhere to begin" or base everything off of some tasteless pink bordered template. (I am talking about Word templates there), and those that do generally prefer it to be the default. Page layout and Word processing are different things; different metaphors for accomplishing the task. They don't mix well in Word and while I am sure Apple does it better, it's still not what most serious writers will want. I, (and a lot of people I would wager), want to use a word processor for most of my documents, not a PageMaker 3.0 clone.

I find it disturbing that Apple is now getting actively deceptive in their practices and advertisements. I haven't tried it yet, but it seems to me that there is *not* a word processor mode in Pages.

chrisgeleven
Aug 7, 2007, 06:10 PM
Just noticed something for you education users.

If you open up the iWork Trial and click on Buy then 'Buy Serial Number', you are brought to a page where you can just get a download version of iWork for $49 if you have a education discount.

I can't find a similar option for iLife '08, but it seems like this will help out some of you.

Scalfani
Aug 7, 2007, 06:13 PM
Could someone explain what exactly a word processor is, I thought any computer program that you could type in would be a word processor. ???

Virgil-TB2
Aug 7, 2007, 06:15 PM
Well it looks like I will be the only one here that is going to wait for Office 2008. I use Office at the school where I teach and at the Guard unit where I work, so it is just easier to use a similar program whether I am on a PC or a Mac. I don't hate the product just because it is Microsoft. Office for Mac is a very solid, well designed program. If it was junk, I would probably switch and learn all the in's and out's of the new program, but it works well.

When I send my boss a file, I never have to worry about what is going to happen when they open in Office at the other end, because I know it will look perfect. This is just my opinion so don't go off on me for saying that a Microsoft product is good.Sounds like this works for you, but consider this:

The new version of Office for Windows has a completely different interface from the old, so you have to learn a lot of stuff new anyway. Also, the new version of Office for Mac will be completely different from the old version of Office for Mac (which was slightly different from the old Windows version anyway), and also completely different from the new version of Office for Windows.

So in short, there have always been differences between the two versions of Office, and both versions are in the middle of the most radical interface changes they have ever undergone. Even if you stick with Office on both platforms, your going to have to use two different interfaces. So it seems like your going to have to get used to something new anyway. :)

No offense BTW, just another point of view.

Hairball
Aug 7, 2007, 06:15 PM
So i went out this afternoon and bought both of the new iPackages, and my MacBook keeps kicking iWork out of the drive, iLife installed fine.

I dont know if the Apple store is going to exchange it or what


Why don't you just take your MacBook in and have a "genius" install it?

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 06:18 PM
Could someone explain what exactly a word processor is, I thought any computer program that you could type in would be a word processor. ???

There is a difference between a text editor and a word processor. Word processors generally let you stipulate headers, footers, contents, index, cross references, figures etc. Basically, its to do with the level of control over the formatting of a document, beyond just entering text. You are processing the text.

Mydel
Aug 7, 2007, 06:25 PM
You have to look at it as a version 1 product. Its simply impossible for them to recreate the functionality of an entrenched rival thats been on the market for a couple of decades.

So you spread the net as wide as you can in the time allocated. They probably got 80% of the real world usage spreadsheet market with version 1. The next 15% may take several releases to hit as the returns start to diminish. The final 5% perhaps too niche.

Jeeez but error bars!:mad: can't use it cos of that. And really wanted to dump excell and stay with Graphpad Prism and Numbers. Whats wrong with you Apple??? Keynote got the same issue. How am I gonna do a presentation whithout error bars??? :(:mad:

supremedesigner
Aug 7, 2007, 06:27 PM
This is strange but the Safari pull-down (see attach below) is Vista GUI, isn't it?

kddpop
Aug 7, 2007, 06:28 PM
i've always been able to get the edu discount at the store here in atlanta.

the general rule is that the stores don't offer the edu discount on software...only hardware.

if the manager at your store does differently, you are blessed! have you purchased software at the store with the edu discount?

~kyle

IJ Reilly
Aug 7, 2007, 06:29 PM
I am disappointed in this myself. Pages is okay for basic stuff but as a writer I need real word processing.

I am especially miffed that they *say* they have added a word processing mode, when in fact they don't seem to have done that at all. I find this a bit deceptive.

If you look carefully at the tutorial, you can see that their idea of a word processing mode is simply to add page layout templates that conform to tasks that are usually done with a word processor. The "section breaks" are not section breaks but new template insertions, and if you hit the return key you won't get a new line, you will just confirm your changes on that template.

This f*cked up mixing of page layout tools and word processing tools is exactly what makes MS Word so unwieldy and bug-ridden. A lot of folks don't *want* to "click anywhere to begin" or base everything off of some tasteless pink bordered template. (I am talking about Word templates there), and those that do generally prefer it to be the default. Page layout and Word processing are different things; different metaphors for accomplishing the task. They don't mix well in Word and while I am sure Apple does it better, it's still not what most serious writers will want. I, (and a lot of people I would wager), want to use a word processor for most of my documents, not a PageMaker 3.0 clone.

I find it disturbing that Apple is now getting actively deceptive in their practices and advertisements. I haven't tried it yet, but it seems to me that there is *not* a word processor mode in Pages.

As a "serious" writer myself, I have to say this criticism makes absolutely no sense. I have never encountered a single one of these issues using Pages, not in over a year and a half of daily use. A section break is a real section break. The page layout tools never get in the way, unless I want them to be in the way.

I'm not sure why Apple thought it necessary to create a word processing "mode" for this version of Pages (I will reserve judgement until I've actually used it), but I suspect the reason is because too many users never looked past the included templates to realize that it has, since version 1.0, been perfectly easy to create a template without any graphics placeholders; nothing but a blank page with a set of defined paragraph and text styles, all ready to go for just plain typing.

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 06:32 PM
This is strange but the Safari pull-down (see attach below) is Vista GUI, isn't it?

where was this from?

supremedesigner
Aug 7, 2007, 06:34 PM
where was this from?

I downloaded the QT video from their website (large file) and watched it. See the QT in the attachment?

Virgil-TB2
Aug 7, 2007, 06:36 PM
There is a difference between a text editor and a word processor. Word processors generally let you stipulate headers, footers, contents, index, cross references, figures etc. Basically, its to do with the level of control over the formatting of a document, beyond just entering text. You are processing the text.In the context of my rant above, I am using word processing in the colloquial sense (that Apple is apparently using as well), of being a typewriter-like metaphor for creating documents.

So in that sense "word processing" is typing like in a text editor, as contrasted with "page layout" which is word processing also, but in a graphical object metaphor (boxes with type and vector objects).

kepardue
Aug 7, 2007, 06:39 PM
Hi,

does anyone know if the new iWork finally supports the OpenDocument Format (ODF)?

I for one am kind of disappointed that Apple doesn't seem to have support for ODF in the new version. I was really hoping that Apple would at least offer the ability to export to this standard format that's gaining lots of attention, if not replace its own XML-based document format with this.

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 06:42 PM
I downloaded the QT video from their website (large file) and watched it. See the QT in the attachment?


Cool I am about to check it out. Because its not Vista, but Vista-esque (which is Aqua-esque, but I digress) in that attachment.

IJ Reilly
Aug 7, 2007, 06:45 PM
In the context of my rant above, I am using word processing in the colloquial sense (that Apple is apparently using as well), of being a typewriter-like metaphor for creating documents.

So in that sense "word processing" is typing like in a text editor, as contrasted with "page layout" which is word processing also, but in a graphical object metaphor (boxes with type and vector objects).

Pages has never required typing in text boxes, or the use of objects of any kind, unless that's what you want -- which is why your rant mystifies me.

ortuno2k
Aug 7, 2007, 06:48 PM
Just noticed something for you education users.

If you open up the iWork Trial and click on Buy then 'Buy Serial Number', you are brought to a page where you can just get a download version of iWork for $49 if you have a education discount.

I can't find a similar option for iLife '08, but it seems like this will help out some of you.

I was JUST going to post that!
Glad someone caught it.
;)

kiwi-in-uk
Aug 7, 2007, 06:49 PM
...
If you look carefully at the tutorial, you can see that their idea of a word processing mode is simply to add page layout templates that conform to tasks that are usually done with a word processor. The "section breaks" are not section breaks but new template insertions, and if you hit the return key you won't get a new line, you will just confirm your changes on that template.

...

If you look more carefully you will notice a "Blank" template at the top of the list. This is, as the name suggests (and as IJ Reilly pointed out), is a "Word Processing" mode as you describe, with a simple set of seven text styles. It is very easy to modify those styles or create new text styles to suit your needs, then save as a template.

rjwill246
Aug 7, 2007, 07:18 PM
Just imported a PowerPoint presentation into Keynote 08. The formatting was all over the place so spent an hour on 69 slides getting them perfect- hit save and then restarted -- the formatting was a mess but a completely different mess from that on the importation. Sadly, I cannot use Keynote tonight as I don't have time to go back and fix. If this is typical, Keynote cannot be considered to be compatible with PowerPoint. fyi, there were no special formatting things done in the original PP so I have no idea why it was so screwed up. Certainly, the prior versions of Keynote were not perfect but this was catastrophic. Using a PB G4... maybe the Intel versions are better????

If this IS typical, Apple has really buggered this up royally!

Eider
Aug 7, 2007, 08:04 PM
IJ Reilly, I'm sorry, did you get my PM? I'm not sure if it worked.

Nuc
Aug 7, 2007, 08:10 PM
Still no equation editor! That sucks.

Nuc

Fukui
Aug 7, 2007, 08:20 PM
It's kind of interesting also that the new iWork reads all the new Office formats.
..............
Now we know iWork will open these things we will probably be buying everyone a copy just for this purpose.


Yep, now I don't have to wait until Office 08 to get file compatibility...

bmpwe
Aug 7, 2007, 08:22 PM
[QUOTE=bigandy;4013022]Methinks Office 04 be losing out to iWork 08 on my MBP :D[/QUOI as well.

Project
Aug 7, 2007, 08:23 PM
Keynote - export to iPod makes me happy

phytonix
Aug 7, 2007, 08:31 PM
Well the price drop in the UK for edu discount is only 5 which is about $10....

students are the next for apple to rip off.
not gonna buy iWorks or iLife 08... way too expensive.

j/k/Andy
Aug 7, 2007, 08:58 PM
The demo requires 32MB video card, but it installed and runs fine on my powerbook with 16MB.

Still not a fan of the template emphasis of iWork, but I'm going to give it a try.

IJ Reilly
Aug 7, 2007, 09:09 PM
IJ Reilly, I'm sorry, did you get my PM? I'm not sure if it worked.

It did -- I've now replied. ;)

students are the next for apple to rip off.
not gonna buy iWorks or iLife 08... way too expensive.

This kind of remark makes my head spin. Too expensive compared to what, free?

calicardiff
Aug 7, 2007, 09:35 PM
It's kind of interesting also that the new iWork reads all the new Office formats.........Now we know iWork will open these things we will probably be buying everyone a copy just for this purpose......Who wants to bet that the next Office actually comes out closer to next Summer? :)

Who knows if it'll ever be released at all :p

The main point for me is the actual price difference - right now iWork '08 is half the price of the Student/Teacher version of Office 2004 (does anyone ever buy the "full" version?) and if, as some have already written, it will cover the needs of 80% of Office users, then that's a huge loss of market share for M$ and the Redmond bean-counters might decide it's just not worth the trouble trying to turn around a dead-end project with serious quality issues.

mrsebastian
Aug 7, 2007, 10:29 PM
congrats apple!!! though iwork is still in it's early stages, it's one step closer to bye bye ms office. keep up the good work!!!!

citi
Aug 7, 2007, 10:34 PM
Just imported a PowerPoint presentation into Keynote 08. The formatting was all over the place so spent an hour on 69 slides getting them perfect- hit save and then restarted -- the formatting was a mess but a completely different mess from that on the importation. Sadly, I cannot use Keynote tonight as I don't have time to go back and fix. If this is typical, Keynote cannot be considered to be compatible with PowerPoint. fyi, there were no special formatting things done in the original PP so I have no idea why it was so screwed up. Certainly, the prior versions of Keynote were not perfect but this was catastrophic. Using a PB G4... maybe the Intel versions are better????

If this IS typical, Apple has really buggered this up royally!

that's strange because I just opened a presentation without a hitch. Same thing with my multi page excel document. So far I am impressed.

kainjow
Aug 7, 2007, 10:39 PM
This is strange but the Safari pull-down (see attach below) is Vista GUI, isn't it?

I am pretty sure that is part of the website, not part of Safari. But yes, it does look like Vista.

Abdesai
Aug 7, 2007, 10:58 PM
FWIW, probably 99% of the Excel spreadsheets I receive are simple tables, which don't include even a single calculation. Apparently, the majority of people who think Office is "for them" really ought to be using something less complicated.

It's quite bold to assume that "most people who think Office is 'for them'" don't use spreadsheets for anything more complex than what you use them for.

As far as I can tell, Numbers is lacking simple features like adding trend lines to scatter plots.

It looks great, but I wish it was useful to me.

balamw
Aug 7, 2007, 11:04 PM
As far as I can tell, Numbers is lacking simple features like adding trend lines to scatter plots.


I'll admit to using Excel for this kind of thing as well, but the unfortunate truth of the matter is the Excel is lousy at this too. So much so that I wish it wouldn't be supported at all, so people don't use the wrong tool for plotting and data analysis. At least if you can't do it you won't be tempted. :p

Too bad, I was hoping to be able to use Numbers for some
"simple" stuff. This and the other comments saying that it was super slow, make it less of a win than I was hoping for. Back to spreadsheets.google.com for the simple stuff and MATLAB for real work.

B

AaronOcean
Aug 7, 2007, 11:14 PM
Delaying your product and then days later the computer maker comes out with an advanced version, that's "wow." :p

It's good that this came out today, just in time for school.

DavidCar
Aug 7, 2007, 11:20 PM
I was hoping the new version of Pages would allow creation and export-to-PDF of hyperlinks to external documents. This is important to a multi-PDF project I'm working on.

I downloaded the trial version and read the new user guide. That feature was not included.

vansouza
Aug 7, 2007, 11:37 PM
students are the next for apple to rip off.
not gonna buy iWorks or iLife 08... way too expensive.

Look at what Microsoft charges for Office and Vista before you label anything as too expensive.

kainjow
Aug 7, 2007, 11:42 PM
iWork looks cool and all, but I think I will wait for Office 08 to upgrade. I just don't trust Apple when it comes to opening any type of Excel or Word file.

Maybe when I graduate I'll ditch M$ :D

MrSmith
Aug 7, 2007, 11:46 PM
Numbers is the euphemism my grandparents used for poo. :)

Anyway, on topic, it doesn't recognize .ods files, so no good for NeoOffice users (other than via 'Saving as' in Excel format).

devman
Aug 8, 2007, 12:30 AM
Hi,

does anyone know if the new iWork finally supports the OpenDocument Format (ODF)?

No. It neither reads ODF files or exports it which is great shame.

devman
Aug 8, 2007, 12:32 AM
Anyone know what the default file format is? ODF?

It's Apple's own XML based format. APXL I think it is (used to be?) called.

Mac One
Aug 8, 2007, 12:42 AM
This is great - iWork finally has a spreadsheet app. I will now have to think very carefully about getting MSOffice on my computer for uni. At the moment i think it would be much better to have iWork and OpenOffice or NeoOffice!

axisdrama
Aug 8, 2007, 12:43 AM
Has anyone been able to purchase the serial number for $49? I tried using this method, selecting the appropriate education radio button (I'm a secondary ed teacher), but, when I checked my cart it showed the serial number cost $71. I thought it had just added the boxed version by mistake, but it truly was the serial number for $71 -- see below.

Just noticed something for you education users.

If you open up the iWork Trial and click on Buy then 'Buy Serial Number', you are brought to a page where you can just get a download version of iWork for $49 if you have a education discount.

I can't find a similar option for iLife '08, but it seems like this will help out some of you.

erikistired
Aug 8, 2007, 12:50 AM
Has anyone been able to purchase the serial number for $49? I tried using this method, selecting the appropriate education radio button (I'm a secondary ed teacher), but, when I checked my cart it showed the serial number cost $71. I thought it had just added the boxed version by mistake, but it truly was the serial number for $71 -- see below.

the $49 is probably something from iWork 06 that hasn't been updated or something. i'd jump on that tonight, but $71 i'm not completely sold on yet. i want to replace office 2004, but my english profs all want word docs. i've just started testing to make sure it's 100% compatible (pages lets you export to a word doc) but i'm just not sure it's the way i want to go. the alternative is to keep office 2004 (which drags) or wait for the new office and pay twice as much.

edit: or maybe it's just lagging behind. when i tried to buy the $49 serial number edition it also went into my cart for $71. maybe i'll give it another try tomorrow.

the general rule is that the stores don't offer the edu discount on software...only hardware.

if the manager at your store does differently, you are blessed! have you purchased software at the store with the edu discount?

~kyle

i bought office 2004, but i guess the discount for that is built in (student and teacher edition). i believe that's it as far as i can remember. i'll have to call ahead when leopard is released.

BWhaler
Aug 8, 2007, 01:41 AM
Wow.

I haven't been able to digest all of the changes, but I am very impressed so far.

I bought a copy the moment it was released. If it is fast and not buggy, I will upgrade my firm.

MrSmith
Aug 8, 2007, 01:46 AM
If it is fast and not buggy, I will upgrade my firm.
Your firm what?

pengu
Aug 8, 2007, 01:58 AM
Your firm what?

i assume he means company?

MrSmith
Aug 8, 2007, 02:08 AM
i assume he means company?
I tend not to use smilies when I'm being (or trying to be) funny. It makes it more of a challenge for certain geographic groups. ;)

Loge
Aug 8, 2007, 02:11 AM
Numbers looks interesting, I spent a few minutes with the trial last night. Appears to be no Applescript dictionary for it though, hopefully this will come in the next version. Some form of scripting would be good!

erockerboy
Aug 8, 2007, 02:21 AM
Downloaded the trial and VERY impressed so far. Numbers appears to be a real winner. This could spell the end of my road w/ MS Office.... hot damn.

Thank you Senor Jobs!

P.S. - to the "student" who claims the kit is "too expensive"... what exactly are you comparing it to?!?

(...and what exactly are you SMOKING? :D)

kepardue
Aug 8, 2007, 02:27 AM
I'm more of a NeoOffice user (possibly for not much longer), but from what I can tell there's also a new Proofreader section in the contextual menu. Makes recommendations on common grammatical mistakes and such. I haven't seen this referenced as a new feature on Apple's site.

The only thing that bothers me about all of the programs in the iWork suite are that they all use Apple proprietary file formats and don't open/save other formats natively (i.e. without using the export menu). I have this thing with vendor lock-in. But then again, I am using an Apple along with all of the benefits that iLife provides... sometimes polished functionality comes with drawbacks I guess.

Still wish Apple would have gone the ODF route. (I'm sure part of my rub here is that not too long ago I batch converted all of my .doc files to .odt files)

Anyone else out there have concerns about saving your files in a .pages format and/or instant portability to other platforms?

mum4d
Aug 8, 2007, 04:55 AM
I dont know if there is something wrong with my Mac but Numbers is running SO SLOW! Every time I try to scroll down the list or re-format some cells I hear the fans on my G5 go into overdrive and get the beach ball spinning for ages. It took Numbers 3 minutes to open a large Excel file. It tool Excel just 30 seconds to open the same file! I wont be dumping Microsoft Office just yet!!

BKKbill
Aug 8, 2007, 05:21 AM
Isn't it ironic that Apple puts Numbers out the same day that they take the number pad off of their keyboard?

The number pad is still on the wired keyboard.

Evangelion
Aug 8, 2007, 05:28 AM
Looks like MS Office is the only possible way to go for 10.3.9 users.

Upgrading to 10.4 and then getting iWork08 should still be cheaper than getting MS Office ;).

Philsy
Aug 8, 2007, 06:12 AM
I am disappointed in this myself. Pages is okay for basic stuff but as a writer I need real word processing.

I am especially miffed that they *say* they have added a word processing mode, when in fact they don't seem to have done that at all. I find this a bit deceptive.

If you look carefully at the tutorial, you can see that their idea of a word processing mode is simply to add page layout templates that conform to tasks that are usually done with a word processor. The "section breaks" are not section breaks but new template insertions, and if you hit the return key you won't get a new line, you will just confirm your changes on that template.

This ****** up mixing of page layout tools and word processing tools is exactly what makes MS Word so unwieldy and bug-ridden. A lot of folks don't *want* to "click anywhere to begin" or base everything off of some tasteless pink bordered template. (I am talking about Word templates there), and those that do generally prefer it to be the default. Page layout and Word processing are different things; different metaphors for accomplishing the task. They don't mix well in Word and while I am sure Apple does it better, it's still not what most serious writers will want. I, (and a lot of people I would wager), want to use a word processor for most of my documents, not a PageMaker 3.0 clone.

I find it disturbing that Apple is now getting actively deceptive in their practices and advertisements. I haven't tried it yet, but it seems to me that there is *not* a word processor mode in Pages.

I agree. A word processor should be just that - something for processing words. Pages is trying to be a DTP program and fails miserably at it. Ditto Word. I'd love to see a word processor for people who write for a living (please don't say Nisus).

Evangelion
Aug 8, 2007, 06:23 AM
I agree. A word processor should be just that - something for processing words. Pages is trying to be a DTP program and fails miserably at it. Ditto Word. I'd love to see a word processor for people who write for a living (please don't say Nisus).

http://www.lyx.org/

netdog
Aug 8, 2007, 06:24 AM
I deleted MS Office

pengu
Aug 8, 2007, 06:27 AM
I agree. A word processor should be just that - something for processing words. Pages is trying to be a DTP program and fails miserably at it. Ditto Word. I'd love to see a word processor for people who write for a living (please don't say Nisus).

have you tried Mellel (http://www.redlers.com/)?

jboyzh
Aug 8, 2007, 06:31 AM
Still wish Apple would have gone the ODF route. (I'm sure part of my rub here is that not too long ago I batch converted all of my .doc files to .odt files)

Anyone else out there have concerns about saving your files in a .pages format and/or instant portability to other platforms?

Same here, converting my stuff to ODF more and more. I've wished the new iWorks to be able to import/export ODF files as well. Hopefully Leopard will deliver ODF support (TextEdit...) in a way that can be used for any application.

I like Numbers though.

BKKbill
Aug 8, 2007, 06:31 AM
I tend not to use smilies when I'm being (or trying to be) funny. It makes it more of a challenge for certain geographic groups. ;)

And please don't start no smilies required. Had a chuckle as soon as I read your reply.

BlackDan
Aug 8, 2007, 06:33 AM
writeroom? (http://hogbaysoftware.com/projects/writeroom)

aquafina
Aug 8, 2007, 07:14 AM
Does anyone know if Numbers will open all .XLS formats? Or only the new new Office '07 XML formats? Trouble is, no one that I work with has actually purchased Office '07, they are all using 2000 and XP.

weckart
Aug 8, 2007, 07:19 AM
I would not be in too much of a hurry to delete iWork '06, if you have it. The trial '08 download is only 460MB and supposedly identical to the boxed product. iWork '06 came on a DVD and was about a Gig and a half judging from the trial version on my MBP. It looks like there are far fewer templates included with Keynote this time round.

Comparing the two: Keynote '06 installed = 1.07GB, Keynote '08 installed =282MB. The Tour '08 application in the Application Support folder is half the size of Tour '06.

Project
Aug 8, 2007, 08:50 AM
I would not be in too much of a hurry to delete iWork '06, if you have it. The trial '08 download is only 460MB and supposedly identical to the boxed product. iWork '06 came on a DVD and was about a Gig and a half judging from the trial version on my MBP. It looks like there are far fewer templates included with Keynote this time round.

Comparing the two: Keynote '06 installed = 1.07GB, Keynote '08 installed =282MB. The Tour '08 application in the Application Support folder is half the size of Tour '06.

There are more themes in Keynote 08. The difference is that Apple appears to have found a way to significantly reduce their file size. Perhaps due to ImageKit being installed pre Leopard?

As an example:

'06 Modern Portfolio - 1920x1080 = 51MB
'08 Modern Portfolio - 1920x1080 = 580KB

Eider
Aug 8, 2007, 08:53 AM
Does anyone know if Numbers will open all .XLS formats? Or only the new new Office '07 XML formats? Trouble is, no one that I work with has actually purchased Office '07, they are all using 2000 and XP.

I was able to open a few Office 2004 .xls sheets with Numbers. Some had problems (particularly charts), but nothing unreasonable.

chabig
Aug 8, 2007, 09:07 AM
Still no equation editor! That sucks.

You already have an equation editor. Look in your Utilities folder for an app called Grapher. It makes beautiful equations that you just copy and paste into Keynote or Pages.

devman
Aug 8, 2007, 09:53 AM
Does anyone know if Numbers will open all .XLS formats? Or only the new new Office '07 XML formats? Trouble is, no one that I work with has actually purchased Office '07, they are all using 2000 and XP.

It opens back to Office97 formats. Earlier than that and you're out of luck (or you use Neooffice to convert to Office97 and then import into Pages/Numbers..

ortuno2k
Aug 8, 2007, 10:00 AM
Has anyone been able to purchase the education version for $49.00 online, by just trying to purchase the serial number?
If so, please provide with a link - I'm at work on Windows and would like to purchase the serial to have it when I get home, but I can't find the link online!

Thanks.

kddpop
Aug 8, 2007, 10:42 AM
Has anyone been able to purchase the education version for $49.00 online

this is one of the things im fretting over today. i want iwork but i want to get the best price for it i can get. anyone have any luck yet in getting the $49 price?

then there is the ethical question of single user/family pack.

and does anyone know if i can upgrade from a single user to family pack and just pay the difference?

~kyle

goosnarrggh
Aug 8, 2007, 11:21 AM
This kind of remark makes my head spin. Too expensive compared to what, free?
Well, free (http://www.openoffice.org)'s just about right.

Using a PB G4... maybe the Intel versions are better????

If this IS typical, Apple has really buggered this up royally!
If the Intel version is better at fundamental things like you've described, then I cannot imagine classifying it as anything short of a bug on the PPC side.

[pure conjecture] Maybe Apple missed some endianness issues in some of the binary file importation filters. [/conjecture]

Is the document in question confidential? Maybe you could give it to a friend with an Intel Mac and see what comes out on that machine...

IJ Reilly
Aug 8, 2007, 11:39 AM
It's quite bold to assume that "most people who think Office is 'for them'" don't use spreadsheets for anything more complex than what you use them for.

You misunderstand. It's not what I use spreadsheets for, it's what other people seem to use them for -- specifically, Office users who make simple tables in Excel instead of using some more appropriate method. If you really need what Excel does, fine. But in my experience the vast majority don't need it, because they aren't using the application for anything like it's intended purpose. For them, something simpler and easier to use would probably be an advantage both to them the people who receive the documents they produce.

Well, free (http://www.openoffice.org)'s just about right.

Yeah, OpenOffice has a really nice interface. Very Mac-like. :rolleyes:

Hairball
Aug 8, 2007, 11:39 AM
this is one of the things im fretting over today. i want iwork but i want to get the best price for it i can get. anyone have any luck yet in getting the $49 price?

then there is the ethical question of single user/family pack.

and does anyone know if i can upgrade from a single user to family pack and just pay the difference?

~kyle


I haven't been able to find the $49 option. When I try to use the educational discount, I get a price of $71. I used the discount my employer has with :apple: and I get a price of $64.95.

erikistired
Aug 8, 2007, 11:42 AM
I haven't been able to find the $49 option. When I try to use the educational discount, I get a price of $71. I used the discount my employer has with :apple: and I get a price of $64.95.

when you click on buy a serial number on the first screen that comes up when you open iWork there is an option for education people to buy it for $49, no box or cd or anything. however when you add it you get the $71 price instead.

ortuno2k
Aug 8, 2007, 11:50 AM
when you click on buy a serial number on the first screen that comes up when you open iWork there is an option for education people to buy it for $49, no box or cd or anything. however when you add it you get the $71 price instead.

I'm having the same problem - I wonder if we can call Apple and find out.
I'm too busy at work today (riiiiiight, and I'm on MR), but if not I'd call. :)

Evangelion
Aug 8, 2007, 01:02 PM
Yeah, OpenOffice has a really nice interface. Very Mac-like. :rolleyes:

Is the interface the most important thing in office suite?

psychofreak
Aug 8, 2007, 01:07 PM
Yeah, OpenOffice has a really nice interface. Very Mac-like. :rolleyes:

IMO NeoOffice (since 2.1) looks beautiful...they really have put the effort in :)

pgwalsh
Aug 8, 2007, 01:16 PM
I've been test driving iWork 08 as of last night and today. I'm really excited about it and think it has potential to be a great Office replacement. I did run into a couple issues.

First, I can't seem to dynamically link a table from Numbers to Pages. So that means I have to copy and paste each time I change a table, which is a drag. I have a project that has about 15 to 20 linked spreadsheets and I can't be bothered copying and pasting them all every time I make an adjustment. If anyone knows how to dynamically link the two together, please share.

Second, Numbers is a bit slow with some of the formatting. I have medium sized tables that have tons of forumla's and when I checked the Accounting format, I got a spinning beach ball that took about 5 minutes to render just a small section. They'll need to fix that.

Other than that, Numbers imported a huge quantity of Excel tables and didn't lose much information. Just some very minor issues. Overall impressed, but can't work with it until they fix my first problem.

Pages looks great overall.

znerd
Aug 8, 2007, 05:24 PM
Here's an initial review of Keynote '08, after an hour or so of testing the trial:
http://ernstdehaan.blogspot.com/2007/08/keynote-08.html

aafuss1
Aug 8, 2007, 07:16 PM
I deleted MS Office

I'll spring-clean and get rid of NeoOffice-but still use OO on a PC.

IJ Reilly
Aug 8, 2007, 07:59 PM
IMO NeoOffice (since 2.1) looks beautiful...they really have put the effort in :)

The recommendation was for OpenOffice, an X11 application. To me NeoOffice looks like a MS Office clone, and that's not a good thing in my book.

erikistired
Aug 9, 2007, 11:24 AM
I haven't been able to find the $49 option. When I try to use the educational discount, I get a price of $71. I used the discount my employer has with :apple: and I get a price of $64.95.

it's been changed now, it's listed as $71 everywhere. not sure what the point of offering it at the same price point it, the trial will last for longer than it'll take for the boxed product to arrive.

MrSmith
Aug 9, 2007, 11:37 AM
The recommendation was for OpenOffice, an X11 application. To me NeoOffice looks like a MS Office clone, and that's not a good thing in my book.
Have you actually used Neo or were you just put off by the design?

axisdrama
Aug 9, 2007, 12:19 PM
Just wanted to let others know that the educational serial number pricing for iWork has been changed to $71 on the website. It no longer shows it as $49. Bummer.

repairsd2007
Aug 9, 2007, 03:23 PM
Just found that keynote'08 cannot print slide with note correctly. It reprint each page's note ontop of next slide so the last slide will accumulate all notes you have since page 1.....wait till this bug fix before I purchase it...:(

chrisgeleven
Aug 9, 2007, 03:29 PM
Yeah I will have to find my old NeoOffice files and convert them to Office files.

Father Jack
Aug 10, 2007, 04:46 AM
What a relief to finally dump Office, Ohh happy day ..... :)

paulbaker
Aug 10, 2007, 08:58 PM
I trashed MS 2004 and Neo. I had no problem with MS 2004. Good applications. I just don't like MS. Neo has a few years of dev. in my opinion. I used it exclusively while waiting on iWork, and it is okay, but just okay....

Its all iWork now!

beate
Aug 11, 2007, 01:02 AM
Isn't it ironic that Apple puts Numbers out the same day that they take the number pad off of their keyboard?

Too funny.
Grrrrrrr on no numeric keypad on BT keyboard. Maybe they'll do another version eventually. I like no wires...I *need* numbers.

Saw the demo, bought the software. Been in SS hell ever since Lotus 123 became unusable on the Mac. Last Apple SS (AppleWorks) sort of sucked.

"Pages" containing a simple word processor now may even mean I won't have to use Word any more. No more Office upgrades...Yay!