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MacRumors
Aug 7, 2007, 01:40 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Due to the intimate setting of the press conference today, Apple elected to have a question and answer session with the attendees. Here are some of the notes of interest from that Q/A. For more complete coverage, please see sites with live updates from the event (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/06/live-coverage-of-the-apple-media-event/). Editor's Note: Q/A is paraphrased for brevity and readability

Q: Why aren't you participating in the "Intel Inside" sticker program?
A: We like our own stickers better. We love Intel, and we feel most people know that we use Intel processors. We'd rather customers not have to peel stuff off.

Q: What about the Mac Mini?
A: The Mac Mini is being refreshed today with faster processors.

Q: What about Apple TV?
A: Nothing about Apple TV today, but we'll have news regarding it soon.

Q: You have Multitouch on the iPhone. What about on the Mac?
A: It doesn't make a lot of sense right now on the Mac. We'd classify that as a research project.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/notes-of-interest-from-q-a/)



RealMcCoy
Aug 7, 2007, 01:42 PM
Quite Satisfying Apple Product Enhancements !

MacPossum
Aug 7, 2007, 01:44 PM
Quite Satisfying Apple Product Enhancements !

Agreed. Loved the new iMac and keyboard. I'm curious to see these 'new' Mac Minis.

albeik
Aug 7, 2007, 01:45 PM
Wow! What a day!

iMac, iLife, iWork, .Mac, Mac Mini ... everything has been updated!

bravoo!! Now I am going to go order me a new iMac!

greenwrangler
Aug 7, 2007, 01:45 PM
Let the post keynote dissecting begin :rolleyes:

xUKHCx
Aug 7, 2007, 01:45 PM
Q: What about Apple TV?
A: Nothing about Apple TV today, but we'll have news regardin git soon.


Such an under used word. The apple TV announcement must be soon because surely this will put a lot of people off from buying it.

WannaGoMac
Aug 7, 2007, 01:46 PM
Is this true?

1.83GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB memory
80GB hard drive1
combo drive

$599


2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB memory
120GB hard drive
superdrive

$799

logansbro
Aug 7, 2007, 01:46 PM
iWork, iLife, Mac updates all very nice.

The QA must have thrown everyone totally off guard, because those questions were L.A.M.E. I bet the QA is the reason MR wasn't invited. You know what we want to ask, and none of those questions would be in any of our top 25 lists. Weak.

MyJelleo
Aug 7, 2007, 01:46 PM
I wish someone would ask Steve when the major iphone update should be expected.

applesmith
Aug 7, 2007, 01:46 PM
Now maybe I can convince my school to invest. The new iMac and software suites are fantastic. Bravo Apple.:apple:

tennismanclay
Aug 7, 2007, 01:47 PM
da mini is still alive :D

-Clay

ecksfilter
Aug 7, 2007, 01:49 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Q: You have Multitouch on the iPhone. What about on the Mac?
A: It doesn't make a lot of sense right now on the Mac. We'd classify that as a research project.

Article Link (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/08/07/notes-of-interest-from-q-a/)


Lame, what a dumb answer. It has tons off applicable uses.

macenforcer
Aug 7, 2007, 01:49 PM
da mini is still alive :D

-Clay

core 2 duo 2ghz. 120gb hd, 1gb ram.

tennismanclay
Aug 7, 2007, 01:50 PM
imacs are back up on the site, with some music to=]

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 01:50 PM
Is this true?

1.83GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB memory
80GB hard drive1
combo drive

$599


2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB memory
120GB hard drive
superdrive

$799

Thats what is listed at the Apple Store

ChuckG
Aug 7, 2007, 01:51 PM
Anyone have any idea why the new Bluetooth keyboard has less keys than the wired keyboard.

http://www.apple.com/keyboard/

Edit: never mind, guess the whole wireless thing makes having a wide, full-sized keyboard on your lap impractical.

WannaGoMac
Aug 7, 2007, 01:51 PM
Sorry, but that Mac mini price is ridiculous.
Dude, going to buy a Dell looks like...

PlaceofDis
Aug 7, 2007, 01:51 PM
Lame, what a dumb answer. It has tons off applicable uses.

sure. but that doesn't make it practical.

ziwi
Aug 7, 2007, 01:52 PM
Wow! What a day!

iMac, iLife, iWork, .Mac, Mac Mini ... everything has been updated!

bravoo!! Now I am going to go order me a new iMac!

Not the pro on specs or price...:(

thomasfxlt
Aug 7, 2007, 01:52 PM
Q: You have Multitouch on the iPhone. What about on the Mac?
A: It doesn't make a lot of sense right now on the Mac. We'd classify that as a research project.


a gazillion patents, the aquisition of Fingerworks and it's a research project....

right........

gkarris
Aug 7, 2007, 01:52 PM
Yea Minis!

Minis are awesome!

Maybe a basic Mini and 17" display will essentially replace a 17" iMac...

AlexisV
Aug 7, 2007, 01:53 PM
A 5 minute Q&A session and a tenth of it was wasted with such probing questions such as why no Intel stickers?

Nothing about the Mac Pro, Cinema Displays or how Leopard's progressing. I thought the people in there were supposed to journalists!

blashphemy
Aug 7, 2007, 01:53 PM
damnit why didn't anyone ask Apple about why they didn't have Blu-Ray as a BTO option?! >:(

also: store went back down cause the new iMac link was broken, still waiting for it to come back up...

Much Ado
Aug 7, 2007, 01:53 PM
I am not disappointed, which, as an Englishman, obviously makes me disappointed.

So i win, and Apple wins. Huzzah.

overcast
Aug 7, 2007, 01:53 PM
Is this true?

1.83GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB memory
80GB hard drive1
combo drive

$599


2.0GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
1GB memory
120GB hard drive
superdrive

$799

That was what was on the store before they just took it down.

cgray24
Aug 7, 2007, 01:54 PM
Q: What about Apple TV?
A: Nothing about Apple TV today, but we'll have news regardin git soon.



I wish he had not said that at all. Now im going to rack my brain wondering if I should wait or not for a refreshed apple tv. He just should have said, no comment. 'Soon' could be next week or next quarter to Steve, ugh. I was planning on buying one this week

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 01:54 PM
A 5 minute Q&A session and a tenth of it was wasted with such probing questions such as why no Intel stickers?

Nothing about the Mac Pro, Cinema Displays or how Leopard's progressing. I thought the people in there were supposed to journalists!

I agree with you whole heartedly. Journalists? Pffft.

overcast
Aug 7, 2007, 01:54 PM
damnit why didn't anyone ask Apple about why they didn't have Blu-Ray as a BTO option?! >:(

also: store went back down cause the new iMac link was broken, still waiting for it to come back up...
Because no one cares about Blu-Ray

AppleiMac
Aug 7, 2007, 01:55 PM
A 5 minute Q&A session and a tenth of it was wasted with such probing questions such as why no Intel stickers?

Nothing about the Mac Pro, Cinema Displays or how Leopard's progressing. I thought the people in there were supposed to journalists!


Yeah, they asked some stupid questions. Like about the AMD chips? :rolleyes: They should have been asking about the Pro, Cinema display, etc. Glad they asked about the Mini though. I wonder when we'll see the updates to it hit the site.

MacPossum
Aug 7, 2007, 01:55 PM
Sorry, but that Mac mini price is ridiculous.
Dude, going to buy a Dell looks like...

... jay kay?

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 01:55 PM
That was what was on the store before they just took it down.

Still there:


http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&mco=9A515E80&node=home/desktop/mac_mini

Spanky Deluxe
Aug 7, 2007, 01:55 PM
Hmmm.... the miniature bluetooth keyboard sucks a bit. I hope they bring out a 'pro' aluminium wireless keyboard with all the keys. I use those missing ones all the time!

overcast
Aug 7, 2007, 01:56 PM
Still there:


http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&mco=9A515E80&node=home/desktop/mac_mini


It's down from my location in New York.

overcast
Aug 7, 2007, 01:57 PM
I'm sorry but those look pretty damn sweet.

http://images.apple.com/home/2007/images/imac_hero_20070807.jpg

edinz
Aug 7, 2007, 01:57 PM
It's a cosmetic facelift, not a model update. They've dropped the 17" because few people bought it, and put a brushed alloy skin on what is essentially a 20" and 24" iMac. And why is it taking so long to introduce the Blu-ray in the line-up? The 20" models all have the mid-range 6600 Core 2Duo, when a much quicker and cooler 6750 is available at little extra cost. I say, bring out a 32" panorama iMac with a Core 2 Extreme and Blu-ray and ditch the 24".

After G
Aug 7, 2007, 01:58 PM
Apple didn't update the tech specs page for the Mac mini yet ... I was wondering what people were talking about regarding "upgraded minis".

Ah well, I'll stick with my Core Duo if it's just a processor bump.

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 01:58 PM
It's down from my location in New York.

Down for me now, too.

overcast
Aug 7, 2007, 01:59 PM
Apple didn't update the tech specs page for the Mac mini yet ... I was wondering what people were talking about regarding "upgraded minis".

Ah well, I'll stick with my Core Duo if it's just a processor bump.
Our MacMini stores are updated.

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 01:59 PM
Apple didn't update the tech specs page for the Mac mini yet ... I was wondering what people were talking about regarding "upgraded minis".

Ah well, I'll stick with my Core Duo if it's just a processor bump.

They did update. Then took it back down. Be patient.

sfwalter
Aug 7, 2007, 02:00 PM
Since the Mac Mini product page is still the old version I'm wondering how much memory you will be able to upgrade in those boxes.

GFLPraxis
Aug 7, 2007, 02:01 PM
Lame, what a dumb answer. It has tons off applicable uses.


He didn't say it has no use, he says it doesn't make sense. He's right. There is no OS interface that can legitamitely support multitouch and make it useful. UI designs don't accomodate fingers yet, even styluses are clunky.

Give Apple some time to come out with a new OS design, or some kind of Front Row for Touchscreen interface (a separate GUI that can be invoked by hitting a key and is designed around multitouch apps).

longofest
Aug 7, 2007, 02:01 PM
Lame, what a dumb answer. It has tons off applicable uses.

They DID at least acknowledge they were working on it ;)

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 02:01 PM
Since the Mac Mini product page is still the old version I'm wondering how much memory you will be able to upgrade in those boxes.

4GB per the Mini spec page

fastbite
Aug 7, 2007, 02:03 PM
Love the keyboard -- the only thing I may be able to afford right now.:mad:

sfwalter
Aug 7, 2007, 02:04 PM
4GB per the Mini spec page

which page did u get that info from. I goto http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html and its the old Mac Mini info.

ecksfilter
Aug 7, 2007, 02:05 PM
sure. but that doesn't make it practical.

He didn't say is wasn't practical he said it didn't make sense. Besides if numerous applicable uses aren't practical what is? Or at the least make a version that does have it. It would really be sweet for graphics design.

He didn't say it has no use, he says it doesn't make sense. He's right. There is no OS interface that can legitamitely support multitouch and make it useful. UI designs don't accomodate fingers yet, even styluses are clunky.

Give Apple some time to come out with a new OS design, or some kind of Front Row for Touchscreen interface (a separate GUI that can be invoked by hitting a key and is designed around multitouch apps).

Leopard supports it. Thats what runs on the iphone.

princealfie
Aug 7, 2007, 02:06 PM
Hurrah for the Mac Mini refresh! Word I'm getting one now now now now :D

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 02:07 PM
which page did u get that info from. I goto http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html and its the old Mac Mini info.

From the Apple Store

easymac800g4
Aug 7, 2007, 02:07 PM
i would have liked to see a "striking new industrial design" for the mac mini as well. Speed bumps are boring.

dmelgar
Aug 7, 2007, 02:09 PM
Is the Mini updated to include 802.11n?

I guess they don't think very highly of the Mini these days. Not even worth a mention that they're upgrading during the talk. Someone has to ask about it before they'll even mention it. Geez. Personally, who cares about the iMac. I want a headless iMac. I want a 1TB drive in a Mini so it can be a serious home theater system.

MarcoWD
Aug 7, 2007, 02:11 PM
But what about ipod updates??!!! I thought they were scheduled or today?

digitalbiker
Aug 7, 2007, 02:11 PM
Lame, what a dumb answer. It has tons off applicable uses.

No it doesn't. Multitouch is almost exclusively for limited screen size usage. No one wants to be reaching over their desktop, making gestures with oily fingers on their $2000+ monitors.

They might make a new input device but would it really be easier than a mouse or keyboard for most applications. Frankly, if I know the keybaord shortcuts, I don't even like using the mouse.

For graphics applications, tablets like Wacoms, cintiq or intuos is still prefered rather than multi-touch. Mainly because most artists like to control a pen or stylus with some sort of pressure feedback system rather than move multiple fingers in a gesture.

So as Apple said, their trying to figure out where it can be most effective in the desktop environment i.e. "research".

sfwalter
Aug 7, 2007, 02:11 PM
damn the mac mini only supports 2gb :(

destroyboredom
Aug 7, 2007, 02:13 PM
I can't believe people think they would introduce introduce BR drives in the iMac before the Mac Pro. :confused:

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 02:13 PM
damn the mac mini only supports 2gb :(

No wonder they took the Apple Store back down.

AnthonyKinyon
Aug 7, 2007, 02:13 PM
I'm glad the Mini was not discontinued. Although it is the lowest-end Mac, it is innovative and has an excellent form factor, which is important to some people.

relimw
Aug 7, 2007, 02:15 PM
damn the mac mini only supports 2gb :(

Those are the old specs, they haven't updated them with the new ones yet. Before the store went down the second time, I believe it said they now support 4GB.

dmelgar
Aug 7, 2007, 02:16 PM
Darn, Apple keeps crippling the Mini so that its useless to everyone. Its always been the ideal media PC, yet they continue to configure it so that it fails at its best calling. When it first came out, it didn't have digital audio. That was inexcusable.

Now even after two refreshes, they don't have a 3.5" hard drive to allow cheap 1TB drives.

Its the ideal box to stream content from a server, especially since it doesn't allow for a big hard drive. Yet they crippled it for no reason by being the ONLY system in the Mac lineup that does NOT support 802.11n. What gives?

It's as if Apple is really lost and confused on the target market for the Mini. They just threw it out there and haven't given it much thought ever since. I would have thought that they'd fix it in the 2 years its been available.

corywoolf
Aug 7, 2007, 02:16 PM
Anyone have any idea why the new Bluetooth keyboard has less keys than the wired keyboard.

http://www.apple.com/keyboard/

Edit: never mind, guess the whole wireless thing makes having a wide, full-sized keyboard on your lap impractical.

Isn't the point of a wireless keyboard for your laptop to gain the lost keys that aren't on the laptop keyboard? So what's the point of this crippled new wireless keyboard again?

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 02:18 PM
Those are the old specs, they haven't updated them with the new ones yet. Before the store went down the second time, I believe it said they now support 4GB.

I think the new specs are up. only 2GB ram and only 802.11g

But I would have sworn it was 4GB before it went back down.

nimand
Aug 7, 2007, 02:19 PM
Did they update the Mini?

http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/8681/billede1bj3.jpg

1984
Aug 7, 2007, 02:19 PM
I can't believe people think they would introduce introduce BR drives in the iMac before the Mac Pro. :confused:

Why? The iMac is supposed to be a multimedia computer. People are more likely to watch movies on an iMac than a Mac Pro. Does the Mac Pro even come with a Front Row remote? It makes perfect sense for a consumer model.

WRXHokie
Aug 7, 2007, 02:19 PM
This is huge news. Cant wait to check em out.

bosrs1
Aug 7, 2007, 02:20 PM
Agreed. Loved the new iMac and keyboard. I'm curious to see these 'new' Mac Minis.

Looks like the update was to 1.83 and 2.0 Ghz Core 2 Duos. Not a bad upgrade. That should make the mini 64 bit for the first time.

JPark
Aug 7, 2007, 02:22 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)
Q: Why aren't you participating in the "Intel Inside" sticker program?


Are you kidding? Who let that guy in there? Apple doesn't sell advertising space on their computers like that. (It detracts from their own, more aesthetically pleasing advertising.)

1984
Aug 7, 2007, 02:22 PM
Did they update the Mini?
<snip image>

Sadly it looks like the only changes are Core 2 Duo and iLife '08. No 802.11n. No 4GB. No price drop. :(

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 02:23 PM
Did they update the Mini?
<snip image>

http://www.apple.com/macmini/index.html

InfernoSoul
Aug 7, 2007, 02:23 PM
Because no one cares about Blu-Ray

Oh? Tell that to the millions who are buying Blu Ray. You are on computer related forum talking about the latest tech revisions of computer hardware and you say no one cares about Blu Ray? What an ignorant comment. I don't know why you are here but I am here for the latest and greatest tech. Even Steve was going on about how DVD(at least the Resolution) is getting obsolete at the conference. If you want to stick with DVD and its limited compabilities compared to Blu Ray then that is fine, but to say no one cares about Blu Ray is just plain ignorant. Most of us have a few 500GB HDD's filled with digital media and would like to be able to put it on a better format.

bosrs1
Aug 7, 2007, 02:23 PM
Is the Mini updated to include 802.11n?

I guess they don't think very highly of the Mini these days. Not even worth a mention that they're upgrading during the talk. Someone has to ask about it before they'll even mention it. Geez. Personally, who cares about the iMac. I want a headless iMac. I want a 1TB drive in a Mini so it can be a serious home theater system.802.11n is so overrated. It's not much better than G for most users right now, especially bargain users. And Apple has a media center for you. It's the Apple TV. They don't want the mini to eat into their Apple TV sales.

WannaGoMac
Aug 7, 2007, 02:24 PM
I am slowly losing my enthusiasm for Apple Macs....

Apple's inability to construct a computer that is priced well is sad.


Mac Mini is a great unit, but for $799 is should have Santa Rosa and x3000 graphics. Cmon.

bosrs1
Aug 7, 2007, 02:25 PM
Sadly it looks like the only changes are Core 2 Duo and iLife '08. No 802.11n. No 4GB. No price drop. :(Actually if it has Core 2 Duo it can support 4 GB. And the Core 2 Duo makes it a 64 bit machine now. So it's a big upgrade.

DanB91
Aug 7, 2007, 02:27 PM
why the hell didnt they ask about gaming or expandability?????:mad:

sananda
Aug 7, 2007, 02:27 PM
the mac mini has a slight price reduction (30) in the UK store for the superdrive model.

surprised they aren't n.

johnee
Aug 7, 2007, 02:29 PM
i would have liked to see a "striking new industrial design" for the mac mini as well. Speed bumps are boring.

really, someone really over-hyped the design aspect. it's basically the same as the old, just with aluminum and a smaller chin. Striking! :rolleyes:

1984
Aug 7, 2007, 02:29 PM
Actually if it has Core 2 Duo it can support 4 GB. And the Core 2 Duo makes it a 64 bit machine now. So it's a big upgrade.

It requires both Core 2 Duo and the Santa Rosa chipset for 4GB support doesn't it?

Bobthemonkey
Aug 7, 2007, 02:30 PM
C2D is something. Can any other home computer supplier say that all of their systems ship with 64-bit as standard.

RichardI
Aug 7, 2007, 02:30 PM
YAHOOOOOO!!! WOOT! WOOT!:D

iMac: Core 2 extreme, ATI HD graphics, bigger hard drive, coolest looking PC on the planet, glossy widescreen, better keyboard with 2 (count 'em - 2 USB 2.0 ports). I'm so happy with these enhancements. Bring on the games.
Gotta go see if the store's up yet....Muhahaha.

Rich :cool::apple:

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 02:30 PM
why the hell didnt they ask about gaming or expandability?????:mad:

Because they are douche bags who don't know what they are doing.

helpinghand
Aug 7, 2007, 02:31 PM
Store is not up, so I couldn't see if it's an option..

caliguy
Aug 7, 2007, 02:32 PM
Oh? Tell that to the millions who are buying Blu Ray. You are on computer related forum talking about the latest tech revisions of computer hardware and you say no one cares about Blu Ray? What an ignorant comment. I don't know why you are here but I am here for the latest and greatest tech. Even Steve was going on about how DVD(at least the Resolution) is getting obsolete at the conference. If you want to stick with DVD and its limited compabilities compared to Blu Ray then that is fine, but to say no one cares about Blu Ray is just plain ignorant. Most of us have a few 500GB HDD's filled with digital media and would like to be able to put it on a better format.

And it seems Apple is gearing more and more towards HD media. Why have iMovie HD and HD camcorders becoming increasingly inexpensive but leave out the option for consumers to burn these to HD discs?

happylittlemac
Aug 7, 2007, 02:33 PM
Nice looking iMac's I hate the new keyboard tho :(, I think I will hold off getting one until 10.5 comes out soon. I just wonder how good the new graphics adapters are, I've never been a fan of ATI, but it has to be a better option over the Intel GMA 950 on the budget iMac before :)

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 02:33 PM
And it seems Apple is gearing more and more towards HD media. Why have iMovie HD and HD camcorders becoming increasingly inexpensive but leave out the option for consumers to burn these to HD discs?

Steve J. talked about this during his presentation.

ajhill
Aug 7, 2007, 02:33 PM
While I am glad to see the Mac Mini is still being offered, it would have been nice to see an video driver that didn't use shared memory.

I think the Mac Mini, "days are numbered" rumors will continue.

Maybe with the upcoming AppleTV News that Steve Jobs eluded to.

Let's face it, the only upgrade they can do to Apple TV is HIGH DEFINITION. Okay well, that and MOVIE RENTALS, or better yet, BOTH!

It will happen! And if it is a hybrid with MacMini, well that might not be too bad either. The current Apple TV is arguably more powerful that the Mac Mini anyhow, so why not?

plumbingandtech
Aug 7, 2007, 02:35 PM
I wish someone would ask Steve when the major iphone update should be expected.

And he would have dodged the answer and said the current product is great and that a person should buy one now.

Which is true.

Because they are douche bags who don't know what they are doing.

OR. They have other things to do during the day then play games therefor it never crossed their minds...

helpinghand
Aug 7, 2007, 02:36 PM
From the PC Junior...

manchild
Aug 7, 2007, 02:37 PM
The new iMacs are really nice but I'm looking at the mac mini...

- 1.83 or 2.00 GHz Core 2 Duo
- NO 802.11n, still 802.11g
- 1GB RAM

Close enough. The mac parts scrapyard that is the mac mini continues. Would have liked N wireless.

I'm in!!!!

cgray24
Aug 7, 2007, 02:39 PM
Hmmm.... the miniature bluetooth keyboard sucks a bit. I hope they bring out a 'pro' aluminium wireless keyboard with all the keys. I use those missing ones all the time!

Looks like they just might do that

http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/07/apples-new-wireless-keyboard-hits-the-fcc/

InfernoSoul
Aug 7, 2007, 02:40 PM
And it seems Apple is gearing more and more towards HD media. Why have iMovie HD and HD camcorders becoming increasingly inexpensive but leave out the option for consumers to burn these to HD discs?

I agree. Maybe we will see an announcement or more information around Leopards release in October. Blu Ray has been nothing but getting more successful as the months go on. Loads of major studios are supporting Blu Ray. So it would only seem logical.

gceo
Aug 7, 2007, 02:41 PM
Is it bad to be most excited about a keyboard?

I can't tell you how many white keyboards I've had to replace in my office.

1984
Aug 7, 2007, 02:43 PM
Steve J. talked about this during his presentation.

Yes and when asked why there was no support for uploading HD content to .Mac he stated there are no camcorders that can do true HD. We all know that's BS plain and simple.

megfilmworks
Aug 7, 2007, 02:44 PM
damnit why didn't anyone ask Apple about why they didn't have Blu-Ray as a BTO option?! >:(

also: store went back down cause the new iMac link was broken, still waiting for it to come back up...Because BluRay is dead on delivery. and HDDVD is not far behind!! Downloadable content is the future, not disc technology from the 80s.

artalliance
Aug 7, 2007, 02:45 PM
Yes and when asked why there was no support for uploading HD content to .Mac he stated there are no camcorders that can do true HD. We all know that's BS plain and simple.

I guess what Steve meant is true = uncompress HD.

aafuss1
Aug 7, 2007, 02:46 PM
YAHOOOOOO!!! WOOT! WOOT!:D

iMac: Core 2 extreme, ATI HD graphics, bigger hard drive, coolest looking PC on the planet, glossy widescreen, better keyboard with 2 (count 'em - 2 USB 2.0 ports). I'm so happy with these enhancements. Bring on the games.
Gotta go see if the store's up yet....Muhahaha.

Rich :cool::apple:

Is that a mobile processor-I'll check the service manual when it comesout.

CJD2112
Aug 7, 2007, 02:48 PM
Because BluRay is dead on delivery. and HDDVD is not far behind!! Downloadable content is the future, not disc technology from the 80s.

Still, downloading HD movies is a far way off as most people don't have the systems to handle such files and home media centers are not a common home system. I do agree that in the future downloadable entertainment is the way to go, but for the next few years HD content via disc format is still a fairly new consumer technology and Mac systems should incorporate them as such.


Are any Mac systems HD compliant? Meaning, if you pop in an after market Blu-ray player in a Mac Pro it works?

SirOmega
Aug 7, 2007, 02:48 PM
=^( No x3000 in the Mini. Still on GMA950. 2GB RAM Max. Oh well...

looking4anotebo
Aug 7, 2007, 02:50 PM
A 5 minute Q&A session and a tenth of it was wasted with such probing questions such as why no Intel stickers?

Nothing about the Mac Pro, Cinema Displays or how Leopard's progressing. I thought the people in there were supposed to journalists!


I am with you. Nothing on Leopard surprised me a bit.

Intel stickers? You have to be joking me. What idiot asked that?

offwidafairies
Aug 7, 2007, 02:50 PM
what about a leopard date? :(

InfernoSoul
Aug 7, 2007, 02:52 PM
Because BluRay is dead on delivery. and HDDVD is not far behind!! Downloadable content is the future, not disc technology from the 80s.

Oh yeah that is logical. Download a 50GB movie when it is released? Are you out of your mind? Do you honestly think the general public has an internet speed capable of downloading such a huge movie in less then say a week? Even with a 10 mega bit(1mega byte/sec) speed would take like 34 hours to download one movie. That isn't practical especially for the general public. That and they would rather have a hard media then a digital media. Look at DVD, HD DVD, Blu Ray, Video games in general sells compared to digital media sells even CD's are still selling well.

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 02:54 PM
And he would have dodged the answer and said the current product is great and that a person should buy one now.

Which is true.



OR. They have other things to do during the day then play games therefor it never crossed their minds...

THAN play games. But, anyway, the point was that they asked no good questions.

offwidafairies
Aug 7, 2007, 02:55 PM
where's the brushed metal mouse to match :rolleyes:

NightStorm
Aug 7, 2007, 02:57 PM
Because BluRay is dead on delivery. and HDDVD is not far behind!! Downloadable content is the future, not disc technology from the 80s.
As already said above, this would be great, but with the state of broadband as it is in the US I don't see this coming to reality anytime soon. People are not going to wait for hours while their 30GB HD video downloads.

I'm all for it though!

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 02:58 PM
Apple Store still not back up. :(

megfilmworks
Aug 7, 2007, 03:05 PM
Still, downloading HD movies is a far way off as most people don't have the systems to handle such files and home media centers are not a common home system. I do agree that in the future downloadable entertainment is the way to go, but for the next few years HD content via disc format is still a fairly new consumer technology and Mac systems should incorporate them as such.
I find it hard to believe that someone who can afford a BluRay disc player and an HDTV would not have DSL or Cable. Must be a very small percentage.
As far as downloading HD content in the future....it's here. I download HD all the time. Don't get me wrong, I have an HD DVD player in my theatre and it is spectacular, but so was the Delorean.

By the way the Apple Store is up and running, and running quickly.

looking4anotebo
Aug 7, 2007, 03:10 PM
I find it hard to believe that someone who can afford a BluRay disc player and an HDTV would not have DSL or Cable. Must be a very small percentage.
As far as downloading HD content in the future....it's here. I download HD all the time. Don't get me wrong, I have an HD DVD player in my theatre and it is spectacular, but so was the Delorean.

By the way the Apple Store is up and running, and running quickly.


It doesn't matter. The file size is so enormous, you can have the best cable speeds in town, it is still going to take you many, many, many hours to download a blue ray or hd movie.

Still many years away.

gmanrique
Aug 7, 2007, 03:12 PM
the idiot whose cell phone kept ringing during the event :)

I am with you. Nothing on Leopard surprised me a bit.

Intel stickers? You have to be joking me. What idiot asked that?

gwangung
Aug 7, 2007, 03:15 PM
It doesn't matter. The file size is so enormous, you can have the best cable speeds in town, it is still going to take you many, many, many hours to download a blue ray or hd movie.

Still many years away.

No kidding. Lot of folks have tech sense....but no common sense. (Like with multi-touch...sure you have the tech, but any fool [i.e., Microsoft] can push the tech out there with only a half-baked idea of how to use it. It DOES take research to build an interface where it makes sense AND easy to use, plus the hooks in the operating system to make use of them)

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 03:16 PM
Store back up :)

LizKat
Aug 7, 2007, 03:17 PM
Apple Store still not back up. :(

yah STILL. And I was trying to check out just when the store went down, with a refurb pink shuffle in shopping cart... hope it's still there.

(someone has to buy the old stuff)

InfernoSoul
Aug 7, 2007, 03:19 PM
It doesn't matter. The file size is so enormous, you can have the best cable speeds in town, it is still going to take you many, many, many hours to download a blue ray or hd movie.

Still many years away.

Exactly! My previous post on the 4th paged stated that. A 50GB movie would take 34 hours with a 10 mega bit speed. That speed in my town costs $80 a month. No way that is going to take off anytime soon. It is more practical to buy the player and the movie on a hard media.

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 03:19 PM
yah STILL. And I was trying to check out just when the store went down, with a refurb pink shuffle in shopping cart... hope it's still there.

(someone has to buy the old stuff)

Back up now.

InfernoSoul
Aug 7, 2007, 03:19 PM
Back up now.

The US store is still down for me.

guerro
Aug 7, 2007, 03:22 PM
Its up but not running very smoothly. A lot of the links are still fubar.

Cinch
Aug 7, 2007, 03:25 PM
It has always been about making beautiful and useful products that you can be proud of to share with friends and families. I know it sounds corny, but this mentality really sets good companies apart from people who just want to make a quick buck! I don't think Michael Dell gets this concept nor does Bill Gates.

Cinch

megfilmworks
Aug 7, 2007, 03:28 PM
It has always been about making beautiful and useful products that you can be proud of to share with friends and families. I know it sounds corny, but this mentality really sets good companies apart from people who just want to make a quick buck! I don't think Michael Dell gets this concept nor does Bill Gates.

Cinch
I totally agree, although Mike Dell is not on a par with Bill Gates. (I can't believe I just complimented Bill Gates)

davidmyers
Aug 7, 2007, 03:30 PM
They'd better soup up the aTV soon, given that remark. Perhaps there
will be another media day event in October, unveiling 10.5, throwing down
new ipods for xmas, and one more thing an aTV that doubles as game
console. Oh well, I can dream, can't I?

macpro2000
Aug 7, 2007, 03:43 PM
Anyone have any idea why the new Bluetooth keyboard has less keys than the wired keyboard.

http://www.apple.com/keyboard/

Edit: never mind, guess the whole wireless thing makes having a wide, full-sized keyboard on your lap impractical.

Actually I'm still trying to figure out why the missing numberpad. The whole reason for BT is no wires, not so you can put it on your lap. I'd rather use my full size BT keyboard I have now.

glennyboiwpg
Aug 7, 2007, 03:48 PM
I wish someone would ask Steve when the major iphone update should be expected.

How dare you? WE "mac" people have to wait for how many months to get ANYTHING new for macs (besides speed bumps) so you people can get your precious "iphone" which so many people can't even buy (I live in canada). We finally get our news.. the news we want... and your important question would be "enough of this mac stuff, when is iphone 2.0 comming out?"


Flame me all you want, but apple still sells computers... get over it!

gceo
Aug 7, 2007, 03:54 PM
Download a 50GB movie when it is released? Are you out of your mind? Do you honestly think the general public has an internet speed capable of downloading such a huge movie in less then say a week?


According to Moore's Law, we should be able to do this in a couple of years. Plus in h.264, it won't need to be 50GB. I thought the original comment about BluRay DOA was pretty accurate.

gceo
Aug 7, 2007, 03:57 PM
Actually I'm still trying to figure out why the missing numberpad. The whole reason for BT is no wires, not so you can put it on your lap. I'd rather use my full size BT keyboard I have now.

Could they be keeping it small for future iPhone integration? (mobility reasons)

momoe
Aug 7, 2007, 04:00 PM
Still showing iWork '06?

Did SJ mention the System Reqs for either iLife or iWork 08? :confused:

momoe :apple:

megfilmworks
Aug 7, 2007, 04:01 PM
How dare you? WE "mac" people have to wait for how many months to get ANYTHING new for macs (besides speed bumps) so you people can get your precious "iphone" which so many people can't even buy (I live in canada). We finally get our news.. the news we want... and your important question would be "enough of this mac stuff, when is iphone 2.0 comming out?"


Flame me all you want, but apple still sells computers... get over it!
Yep, and there leading selling computer is the iPhone! :eek:

Bregalad
Aug 7, 2007, 04:03 PM
Last question: "There has been a suggestion that Apple appeals to smaller elite than mass customer base. Is it your goal to overtake PC in marketshare?"

Steve: "Goal is to make the best PC in the world, and make something we can recommend to family in friends. There is some stuff in our industry we wouldn't be proud to ship. We can't ship junk. Thresholds we just can't cross. But we want to make the best personal computers in the industry. Our products are usually not premium priced. Price our competitors' computers, and add in all the extras, we're competitive. We don't offer stripped down products. We compare favorably. Thank you very much for coming today."

Usually not premium priced?? The PC world is offering 2.4GHz Core2Quad based PCs with 2GB of RAM and 500GB HDs bundled with top brand name LCDs for significantly less than the entry level iMac.

Now I'm willing to pay a few hundred dollars more for a good case and power supply, and the joy of running MacOS X instead of Windows, but the gap remains ridiculously large.

megfilmworks
Aug 7, 2007, 04:06 PM
It doesn't matter. The file size is so enormous, you can have the best cable speeds in town, it is still going to take you many, many, many hours to download a blue ray or hd movie.

Still many years away.Why do you say many years away. We do this all the time in the business. I can download 2 or 3 feature length HD features with no codec on my laptop while I sleep at night. Use a codec and its even faster.
And all I have is a plain vanilla cable modem.

gwangung
Aug 7, 2007, 04:15 PM
Why do you say many years away. We do this all the time in the business. I can download 2 or 3 feature length HD features with no codec on my laptop while I sleep at night.

Proof positive that this going to be several years away.

That's NOT normal consumer behavior, dude...

twoodcc
Aug 7, 2007, 04:28 PM
it was nice that they did the Q/A. even though i personally like just listening to steve, it's good to get questions from others

trogdor!
Aug 7, 2007, 04:30 PM
Usually not premium priced?? The PC world is offering 2.4GHz Core2Quad based PCs with 2GB of RAM and 500GB HDs bundled with top brand name LCDs for significantly less than the entry level iMac.


Hahahahaha, who on earth sells the quad core2 for "significantly" less than 1200 bucks? Your goin to have to prove that one. And no....ebay does not count. 99 percent of those machines have no os and software and use the crappy cases. And include an quality LCD??

Bregalad
Aug 7, 2007, 05:02 PM
Hahahahaha, who on earth sells the quad core2 for "significantly" less than 1200 bucks? Your goin to have to prove that one.

Check out www.futureshop.ca. Acer Aspire Intel Core 2 Q6600 Quad 2.4GHZ Desktop Computer (ASE700-EQ662A) for $999. This week only bundled with a Samsung 216BW for $1099. That bundle is $200 less than the entry level iMac in Canada ($1299).

2.4GHz Core2Quad instead of 2.0GHz Core2Duo
1066MHz bus instead of 800
2GB RAM (probably full speed) instead of 1GB of 667MHz notebook stuff
500GB HD instead of 250

While I don't consider Acer a top tier brand, their components are mostly the same ones Apple buys and Macs are built in the same Chinese factories that discount brand PCs are.

Irishman
Aug 7, 2007, 05:14 PM
I find it hard to believe that someone who can afford a BluRay disc player and an HDTV would not have DSL or Cable. Must be a very small percentage.
As far as downloading HD content in the future....it's here. I download HD all the time. Don't get me wrong, I have an HD DVD player in my theatre and it is spectacular, but so was the Delorean.

By the way the Apple Store is up and running, and running quickly.


Well, here's the problem with it, at least with us Americans. We don't have broadband. Not really. Not like it's available in Europe or Japan. We're 30% or 10% of their broadband consumer speeds respectively. Seriously. Major suckage when the country who invented the internet can't get its act together.

So, until Web 2.0 arrives to Joe Blow in the US, HD downloadable feature-length films won't be practical.

thomasfxlt
Aug 7, 2007, 05:17 PM
Proof positive that this going to be several years away.

That's NOT normal consumer behavior, dude...

People order movies form Netflix and wait overnite. Why wouldn't they push a button on their computer to process a movie order that executes while they sleep. It's LEARNED behavior. Just like deprogramming ones self from driving to Blockbuster and using Netflix. People will learn to go to iTunes, order a movie and forget about it for a bit. The beauty is, that when bandwidth increases or Movie codecs drive down file sizes, Apple is already positioned with the store, buyer behavior and a library to WIN. And, there's nothing to send back!

Cinch
Aug 7, 2007, 05:17 PM
Check out www.futureshop.ca. Acer Aspire Intel Core 2 Q6600 Quad 2.4GHZ Desktop Computer (ASE700-EQ662A) for $999. This week only bundled with a Samsung 216BW for $1099. That bundle is $200 less than the entry level iMac in Canada ($1299).

2.4GHz Core2Quad instead of 2.0GHz Core2Duo
1066MHz bus instead of 800
2GB RAM (probably full speed) instead of 1GB of 667MHz notebook stuff
500GB HD instead of 250

While I don't consider Acer a top tier brand, their components are mostly the same ones Apple buys and Macs are built in the same Chinese factories that discount brand PCs are.


aesthetics? I personally put aesthetics above all other factors when considering a computer purchase. I don't need the raw power to run iTunes or Safari. Games? I rather relax with friends over a cold beer or wine!

ease of use? I'm using a Dell at work and Window XP, and managing download and files is soo arcane and a chore.

Cinch

Irishman
Aug 7, 2007, 05:23 PM
According to Moore's Law, we should be able to do this in a couple of years. Plus in h.264, it won't need to be 50GB. I thought the original comment about BluRay DOA was pretty accurate.

Except that it wasn't.

Blu-ray and HD-DVD both fill a need NOW (August 7, 2007). Later processor and internet speeds down the line will be able to fill that same need at that time without the need for competing formatted discs. BUT, then, don't forget, by then downloading Bly-ray movies will have the same pizzazz and allure of streaming blurry videos on YouTube. The HD target will continue to move upward. 1080p is NOT the final iteration. 1260p is here already via a Westinghouse HDTV capable of outputting video so sharp that each frame of 24fps video contains as much data as an 8 Mega-pixel camera. Multiply that out to a 2 hour feature film. Boom, all of a sudden that fast connection and quick transfer for 1080p just isn't up to snuff.

My randomly-arrived at point? All CE stuff is a moving target. It never stops. As soon as someone comes up with a way to transfer data faster, someone else comes up with a way to clog that pipeline. And the process starts all over again.

irun5k
Aug 7, 2007, 06:00 PM
According to Moore's Law, we should be able to do this in a couple of years. Plus in h.264, it won't need to be 50GB. I thought the original comment about BluRay DOA was pretty accurate.

Actually, Moore's law has nothing to do with bandwidth.

Personally, I think the capacity of physical media will always lead what is reasonable with current consumer bandwidth. For example, when consumers can download 50GB in 10 minutes, There will be a new media/disc format that can store much more than 50GB. It is probably a much lesser challenge to roll out a new storage technology than it is to upgrade all the infrastructure required to just double the bandwidth for even 60% of a given country's population. For example, Hitachi can make a better drive and I can go to the store and buy it easier than it would be to lay fiber to all the homes that are still on copper.

It seems the hard part with new media types is getting everyone to buy into it. The switch from VHS to DVD actually happened pretty quickly- it almost seems like one day Blockbuster had all VHS and the next it was all DVD. However there was a HUGE gain in upgrading to DVD. Will consumers preceive the gain from DVD to BluRay in the same way?

3.1416
Aug 7, 2007, 06:11 PM
Hahahahaha, who on earth sells the quad core2 for "significantly" less than 1200 bucks? Your goin to have to prove that one.

Try here (http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?pfp=BROWSE&N=200005&product_code=346300&Pn=Aspire_E700_UQ660A_Minitower). I got it last month when there was a $150 instant rebate for $750 net. 2GB RAM, 500GB HD, comes with Vista (and runs Ubuntu quite well). Not as pretty as a Mac, but it's not hideous. I'd gladly have paid $500 more for a comparable Mac, but $1750 is way out of line.

Padriac
Aug 7, 2007, 06:18 PM
According to Moore's Law, we should be able to do this in a couple of years. Plus in h.264, it won't need to be 50GB. I thought the original comment about BluRay DOA was pretty accurate.

Most new Blu-ray movies ARE encoded in h.264 (aka AVC) or some equivalent codec (VC-1). The video files are still near 30 GB (HD DVD) or above it (Blu-ray). This is just not practical for the common person to download at this point in time. Ridiculous, really, at all levels (bandwidth, storage)

I have no doubt that we are entering the transition to pure software with no physical media, but we're probably still too far away to make this jump right now for video. Blu-ray (or HD DVD) are superior to DVD in pretty much every respect (other than cost, at this point) so unless you are arguing that all DVD drives are currently pointless, going Blu-ray is a logical step.

ajhill
Aug 7, 2007, 06:50 PM
And it seems Apple is gearing more and more towards HD media. Why have iMovie HD and HD camcorders becoming increasingly inexpensive but leave out the option for consumers to burn these to HD discs?

Apple is waiting, as is most everyone else, to see which one wins out. In the meantime look for HD content to become available for rental/purchase thru the Apple TV revision that they hinted toward.

Looks like someone's getting an Apple TV for Christmas!

ajhill
Aug 7, 2007, 06:53 PM
It doesn't matter. The file size is so enormous, you can have the best cable speeds in town, it is still going to take you many, many, many hours to download a blue ray or hd movie.

Still many years away.

Actually not. With H.264 you can get quite small file sizes and very good pictures. I rip DVDs to Apple TV at 2.5 Mbps all the time. The resulting file is about 2.5 gigs.

It's not all that uncommon to see multi hundred meg trailers available for download.

It's definitely time to buy more Cisco stock!

ajhill
Aug 7, 2007, 06:56 PM
Most new Blu-ray movies ARE encoded in h.264 (aka AVC) or some equivalent codec (VC-1). The video files are still near 30 GB (HD DVD) or above it (Blu-ray). This is just not practical for the common person to download at this point in time. Ridiculous, really, at all levels (bandwidth, storage)

I have no doubt that we are entering the transition to pure software with no physical media, but we're probably still too far away to make this jump right now for video. Blu-ray (or HD DVD) are superior to DVD in pretty much every respect (other than cost, at this point) so unless you are arguing that all DVD drives are currently pointless, going Blu-ray is a logical step.

You are correct. An Apple TV movie rental download wouldn't need to be 30GB. 10GB would suffice nicely. You could create a queue like on Netflix and the Apple TV could download in the background. Didn't Apple upgrade the Apple TV from 40GB to 160GB? Now why do you suppose they did that? HD rentals, that's why!

megfilmworks
Aug 7, 2007, 07:00 PM
A few thoughts:
One poster said BluRay and HDDVD can meet current demand for a vastly improved picture over DVD. To people that know, there is no doubt how beautiful a pure HD picture is. But a good transfer of a film to DVD and projected with a line doubler (now cheap and installed in most DVD players with component outs) looks very good. The average consumer does not notice the difference. Most films are posted grainy and soft, that's the film look.
Only in broadcast tv, especially sports, does the average consumer really see a difference.
Also as far as download times. Pick a movie in the morning (or2) and download it while at work. ready to play when you get home. You can also start watching before the download is complete. Faster than Netflix !!
And then, also killing the disc market, is DVR and HD Broadcast. Buy Apple, not Toshiba or BluRay stock!

aristotle
Aug 7, 2007, 11:40 PM
Oh? Tell that to the millions who are buying Blu Ray. You are on computer related forum talking about the latest tech revisions of computer hardware and you say no one cares about Blu Ray? What an ignorant comment. I don't know why you are here but I am here for the latest and greatest tech. Even Steve was going on about how DVD(at least the Resolution) is getting obsolete at the conference. If you want to stick with DVD and its limited compabilities compared to Blu Ray then that is fine, but to say no one cares about Blu Ray is just plain ignorant. Most of us have a few 500GB HDD's filled with digital media and would like to be able to put it on a better format.
I'm guessing that guy is an HD DVD fanboy who is bitter about how the format war is going, the lack of HD DVD burners and that Blu-ray not only has mac compatible Blu-ray burners already (internal and external) from third-parties but standalone BD recorders already exist. To add insult to injury, Hitachi showed off camcorders that record to mini-BD discs which should be on the market by Christmas.

InfernoSoul
Aug 7, 2007, 11:42 PM
Actually not. With H.264 you can get quite small file sizes and very good pictures. I rip DVDs to Apple TV at 2.5 Mbps all the time. The resulting file is about 2.5 gigs.

It's not all that uncommon to see multi hundred meg trailers available for download.

It's definitely time to buy more Cisco stock!

You are missing the idea behind Blu Ray, HDDVD and HD in general. People want less compressed video/audio not more compression. I understand that the H.264 is very good at compression but either way you are losing detail and it's being compressed. Just like when Xvid/DivX came out everyone was going around saying "Xvid/Divx is the same video/audio quality as DVD but 1/4 the size.". Are you joking? Talk about ignorant statement. We don't want 2.5Mbps video we want 40-50Mbps and higher! The higher the resolution with the higher the Mbps the better more crisp and pristine the image will be. I don't want no crappy compressed video and audio. If that is what you like and enjoy then fine that is fine. However try blowing that crappy resolution and 2.5Mps(which is below even DVD standards) video on a screen bigger then 50" and you will see that your "very good pictures" doesn't look so good. Just stated earlier that Westinghouse already has the next gen resolution monitor running at 1440P take a 2 hour movie with umcompressed audio and high biterate you have a movie that is well over 100GB with extras and what not.

InfernoSoul
Aug 7, 2007, 11:54 PM
A few thoughts:
One poster said BluRay and HDDVD can meet current demand for a vastly improved picture over DVD. To people that know, there is no doubt how beautiful a pure HD picture is. But a good transfer of a film to DVD and projected with a line doubler (now cheap and installed in most DVD players with component outs) looks very good. The average consumer does not notice the difference. Most films are posted grainy and soft, that's the film look.
Only in broadcast tv, especially sports, does the average consumer really see a difference.
Also as far as download times. Pick a movie in the morning (or2) and download it while at work. ready to play when you get home. You can also start watching before the download is complete. Faster than Netflix !!
And then, also killing the disc market, is DVR and HD Broadcast. Buy Apple, not Toshiba or BluRay stock!


I disagree. I've shown a regular DVD version of POTC: DMC(Pirates of the Carribian) on my friends 52" RCA HDTV through a PS3(with the PS3's good upscaler - HDMI obviously). Then I showed the Blu Ray version of POTC: DMC to people who thought they were seeing HD on regular digital cable. Each one noticed a difference which "blew them away" as they said. Now I am not saying everyone will be blown away especially if you are watching on a TV that is 30" or smaller with decent TV upscaler or decent dvd upscaler. However not all HDTV's or DVD players are created equal and the vast majority have not so good upscalers. Even then scalers can't compare to the higher bite rate and uncompressed audio of HDDVD or Blu Ray.

Why would I want to pick a movie wait until the next night to watch it when I want to watch it that night? How does that seem logical? Explain that to the average consumer.

"Oh you have to wait until the movie is down downloading before you can watch it."
"What!? Why can't I watch it now? I can watch DVDs when I pay for them right away just pop it in my player?"

Now me and you might not have a problem doing that. However can you see most the of less-informed-tech general public being able to understand that?

Evangelion
Aug 8, 2007, 05:31 AM
Looking at the Q/A, it seems that we will be getting a new event soon. One that is about iPods and AppleTV.

Porchland
Aug 8, 2007, 08:39 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see a September event for iPod, :apple:tv and audio/video content.

1. Apple wanted to focus specifically on the consumer Mac line with this announcement, so there was lots of talk about market share, unit growth, design, etc. of Macs, and very little (or no) talk about iPhone, iPod and Leopard. That was partly for the analysts, which like to have their story spoon-fed almost as much as tech journalists.

2. The iMovie section of the iLife intro video puts a lot of emphasis on scaling -- iPod-quality on up to better-than-DVD-quality video. Sounds like a good hook for a fall marketing blitz for scaling content for iPhones, widescreen iPods, Macs and (with :apple:tv) the family room HDTV.

3. iPods usually refresh in September or October ahead of Christmas shopping season.

4. The fall TV season starts in late September.

I'd like to see Apple announce in September: widescreen iPods, a TV subscription plan (all you can eat for $24.99 a month with a lot of titles available in HD, limited live streaming content), movies on demand ($4.99 and all in HD), and an :apple:tv upgrade to allow direct purchase from the box. One more thing: The Beatles catalog.

I don't necessarily see the need for a hardware upgrade for :apple:tv -- depending on whether Apple emphasizes bandwidth, storage or both.

Porchland
Aug 8, 2007, 08:48 AM
You are correct. An Apple TV movie rental download wouldn't need to be 30GB. 10GB would suffice nicely. You could create a queue like on Netflix and the Apple TV could download in the background. Didn't Apple upgrade the Apple TV from 40GB to 160GB? Now why do you suppose they did that? HD rentals, that's why!

:apple:tv could also stock certain new releases by downloading the first 500MB or so of a handful of titles that you could start watching immediately.

I think Apple will approach this area with a lot of caution to make sure that it's next to impossible to get 20 minutes into a movie and have it freeze up for lack of enough lag between the download and the playback.

NicP
Aug 8, 2007, 09:36 AM
Oh yeah that is logical. Download a 50GB movie when it is released? Are you out of your mind? Do you honestly think the general public has an internet speed capable of downloading such a huge movie in less then say a week? Even with a 10 mega bit(1mega byte/sec) speed would take like 34 hours to download one movie. That isn't practical especially for the general public. That and they would rather have a hard media then a digital media. Look at DVD, HD DVD, Blu Ray, Video games in general sells compared to digital media sells even CD's are still selling well.

Once you take out all the junk and use some decent compression you can get a high def movie down to about 4 or 5 gig (720p). If i max out my connection that downloads in less than 40 minutes, ie I could start streaming it live from the internet if iTMS would let me.

NightStorm
Aug 8, 2007, 09:49 AM
Once you take out all the junk and use some decent compression you can get a high def movie down to about 4 or 5 gig (720p). If i max out my connection that downloads in less than 40 minutes, ie I could start streaming it live from the internet if iTMS would let me.
Decent compression? HD-DVD and Bluray are using VC-1 from Microsoft and AVC (i.e. H264). People like the extras, want 1080p video, and support for the new high-definition audio formats. If Apple were to release a 720p video service, I can guarantee you that people would be up in arms that its not 1080p. (Of course, a lot of the HDTVs out there can only display up to 720p and they won't be able to take advantage of 1080p, but they'll still complain).

Me personally, I'd be up for a 720p HD download service, and would make use of it even with the extended downloads, but I don't think the common person would.

trogdor!
Aug 8, 2007, 10:49 AM
Check out www.futureshop.ca. Acer Aspire Intel Core 2 Q6600 Quad 2.4GHZ Desktop Computer (ASE700-EQ662A) for $999. This week only bundled with a Samsung 216BW for $1099. That bundle is $200 less than the entry level iMac in Canada ($1299).

2.4GHz Core2Quad instead of 2.0GHz Core2Duo
1066MHz bus instead of 800
2GB RAM (probably full speed) instead of 1GB of 667MHz notebook stuff
500GB HD instead of 250

While I don't consider Acer a top tier brand, their components are mostly the same ones Apple buys and Macs are built in the same Chinese factories that discount brand PCs are.

Well I saw yours and the other person that posted a quad deal. Consider me proven wrong. I honestly didnt realize there were some quad deals out there that low. I guess technology is moving faster then I can keep up with it. haha

Irishman
Aug 8, 2007, 03:19 PM
Once you take out all the junk and use some decent compression you can get a high def movie down to about 4 or 5 gig (720p). If i max out my connection that downloads in less than 40 minutes, ie I could start streaming it live from the internet if iTMS would let me.

Video purists like myself scream when anyone tries to refer to "decent compression". There is no such thing when it comes to HD. Look at the DirecTV "HD Lite" lawsuit if you question how important we view pure mouthwatering HD quality. :)

Bregalad
Aug 8, 2007, 03:43 PM
aesthetics? I personally put aesthetics above all other factors when considering a computer purchase. I don't need the raw power to run iTunes or Safari. Games? I rather relax with friends over a cold beer or wine!

ease of use? I'm using a Dell at work and Window XP, and managing download and files is soo arcane and a chore.

Cinch

I'm glad you replied. You are clearly one of Apple's most important customers, a person who is willing to pay extra for their fine industrial design. I buy Macs because I like the operating system. The box running it could be bright pink with orange polka dots for all I care. It's a tool not a work of art. I'll never understand people who think their computer should be on top of their desk instead of lurking somewhere underneath or beside it. (obviously this doesn't apply to notebooks)

As I stated in my original post I happily pay more for quality components and MacOS X, but the gap between the components Apple puts in their boxes and those from less aesthetically pleasing corporations is big. When Apple was designing their own motherboards and integrating technologies not commonly found in the wider PC world their costs forced them to price their machines higher than others. Aside from the case (which forces some engineering work and costs a few dollars per unit for Jonathan Ive's vision) and the operating system, today's Mac is a PC so price comparisons are a fair subject.

NicP
Aug 8, 2007, 08:24 PM
Decent compression? HD-DVD and Bluray are using VC-1 from Microsoft and AVC (i.e. H264). People like the extras, want 1080p video, and support for the new high-definition audio formats. If Apple were to release a 720p video service, I can guarantee you that people would be up in arms that its not 1080p. (Of course, a lot of the HDTVs out there can only display up to 720p and they won't be able to take advantage of 1080p, but they'll still complain).

Me personally, I'd be up for a 720p HD download service, and would make use of it even with the extended downloads, but I don't think the common person would.

Yes by decent compression i mean h.264, The previous poster said that the download would be 50 gig, given that HDDVD uses h.264 and only stores 15gb per layer (and does 1080p) a 720p feature could easily be only a few gig without the extras. You may like extras, I don't, i never watch them. If apple does release HD downloads they will only be 720p because thats the max the appletv supports.

InfernoSoul
Aug 8, 2007, 11:10 PM
Yes by decent compression i mean h.264, The previous poster said that the download would be 50 gig, given that HDDVD uses h.264 and only stores 15gb per layer (and does 1080p) a 720p feature could easily be only a few gig without the extras. You may like extras, I don't, i never watch them. If apple does release HD downloads they will only be 720p because thats the max the appletv supports.

Well 1080P is the standard on HDDVD and Blu Ray with high bit rates(epsecially higher on Blu Ray) and uncompressed audio. It's nice for people to have an option to choose weather they want 720P or 1080P. Seriously though why go with the a lower resolution, lower bit rate and more compression(as you want) when it has been proven that 1080P content displayed on a 720P native monitor looks better then 720P content? I would be guessing most people would rather go with the more pristine image and audio. By the way you forgot about uncompressed audio it would be a more then just a few gigs with 720P video and uncompressed audio or do you want that down res'ed to dvd audio also? I'm sorry but HD buyers are going with the higher res, less compression, uncompressed audio and higher bit rates. The movie 300 sold 250,000 HDDVD's and Blu Ray's combined in it's first week of release. The millions of HD buyers are gonna go with the more pristine image and better audio. Why go lower? I just don't understand.

NicP
Aug 9, 2007, 01:21 AM
Well 1080P is the standard on HDDVD and Blu Ray with high bit rates(epsecially higher on Blu Ray) and uncompressed audio. It's nice for people to have an option to choose weather they want 720P or 1080P. Seriously though why go with the a lower resolution, lower bit rate and more compression(as you want) when it has been proven that 1080P content displayed on a 720P native monitor looks better then 720P content? I would be guessing most people would rather go with the more pristine image and audio. By the way you forgot about uncompressed audio it would be a more then just a few gigs with 720P video and uncompressed audio or do you want that down res'ed to dvd audio also? I'm sorry but HD buyers are going with the higher res, less compression, uncompressed audio and higher bit rates. The movie 300 sold 250,000 HDDVD's and Blu Ray's combined in it's first week of release. The millions of HD buyers are gonna go with the more pristine image and better audio. Why go lower? I just don't understand.

You could use the same argument for CD vs AAC, why would anyone purchase compressed AAC when you can get uncompressed audio on CD?

Ideally we would have fibre to our homes and could download 1080p content and 7.1 channel audio. Obviously this is impractical for the moment, so the options are to either get it off disk like blu ray, or download it at a lesser rate.

Personally i would sacrifice some quality to be able to purchase video and download it on the net (at the right price), not everyone agrees with me, but given the success of iTMS i'm not alone.

InfernoSoul
Aug 9, 2007, 11:21 AM
You could use the same argument for CD vs AAC, why would anyone purchase compressed AAC when you can get uncompressed audio on CD?

Ideally we would have fibre to our homes and could download 1080p content and 7.1 channel audio. Obviously this is impractical for the moment, so the options are to either get it off disk like blu ray, or download it at a lesser rate.

Personally i would sacrifice some quality to be able to purchase video and download it on the net (at the right price), not everyone agrees with me, but given the success of iTMS i'm not alone.



True. It would be nice to have the option for both disc and digital download. My internet speed is currently only capable of downloading at 300K/sec so downloading a movie that is say 8-10GB(dvds are between 2-4GB for just the movie) would take a bit of time. I would bet most of the general public more then likely does not have fast download speeds(5Mb or faster) nor would they be willing or wanting to wait so long for to be able to watch a movie. Also most people perfer to watch their movies on there TV where they can relax rather then on their computer. I know you can link your computer to most HD TV's out there through VGA or DVI however that just seems like a lot of work when you could just buy the disc and load it through a player. The prices for the internet downloads would have to be really intriguing for me to consider just the movie itself at 720P. However to each their own! :D

mickeymouse
Aug 10, 2007, 06:55 PM
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zedsdead
Aug 17, 2007, 06:45 AM
Here is my take on Apple and HD:

Clearly, Jobs is not happy with the DVD situation right now...Apple offers HD DVD authoring in DVD Studio Pro with Red Lasers, and that could easily have been incorporated into iDVD to let people burn HD DVD's since they work not only in Macs, but the players now as well. This means that no new expensive hardware (Such as Blu-Ray and HD DVD burners) would have to be added for the benefit.

Jobs also was pushing the "Large" file size (960x540) that the Apple TV supports (60i/30P/24P/25P) very much. Of course, the Apple TV can go to 1280x720 (24P/25P only).

It seems likely that these higher quality movies are coming soon. My guess, is that they will be released alongside of the new iPod's...It seems reasonable that the iPhone and new iPods have the ability to playback the 540P that Jobs is pushing. That might be the overall quality increase (a sort of psuedo-HD). You heard the slogan already, "Higher Quality Than DVD."

If Apple does full 720P (which I want them to), then the files are only playable on the Mac and the Apple TV. This will in turn hurt video sales that the new ipods and iPhone will generate. If I buy a movie off of the iTunes store, it better be playable on all the devices. They might do a "Combo" thing like HD DVD does, ie. offer both resolutions if wanted.

Either way, something should be on the horizon...