iMovie '08 Rewrite Fully Supports AVCHD & Radically Improves Making Good Movies Fast [Archive]

Multimedia

Aug 7, 2007, 10:06 PM

Are you guys serious? Complete removal of the effects engine and themes? Serious limitations on audio tracks and levels? No timeline feature?

This looks like Windows Movie Maker for the Mac. Yuck.

Terrible Update. Five steps backwards. How did we go from iMovie HD, with beautiful motion graphics themes, basic color correction and audio effects to this???Motion graphics themes are still in there. I think the timeline is an optional view as well. You may be making a snap judgement based on incomplete information.

lostless

Aug 7, 2007, 10:58 PM

Motion graphics themes are still in there. I think the timeline is an optional view as well. You may be making a snap judgement based on incomplete information.

For your info. I just got the new iLife, and every app is very improved except imovie. Imovie has become a joke. There is no timeline view. You cant add black (fade in from black, kinda basic) . cant start music before video. Cant fade audio in and out. NO EFFECTS! NO THEMES. All you can do now is color balance the video. It doesn't even open old projects. Ive made some pretty good videos out of old imovie HD, but this new one would be impossible to do what ive done in Imovie. The possible pro power of Imovie, and I have done 1 professional video with imovie, has been stripped away and thrown out. Its now for beginners only that want to make cutsie home movies. Cheapest way to get many features back is to pay 300 for FCE. At least apples doesn't uninstall Imovie HD when ilife 08 installs.

Now if anyone can proove me wrong. Ill be glad to hear, cause im just not finding anything of old. Especially the effects which i love using. seems to be a sad day for 3rd party effect makers.

Flowbee

Aug 7, 2007, 11:36 PM

At least apples doesn't uninstall Imovie HD when ilife 08 installs.

So what's your beef? You now have two movie making apps on your Mac.

lostless

Aug 7, 2007, 11:46 PM

So what's your beef? You now have two movie making apps on your Mac.

Minor beef. but still a beef. If i got my MBP after Ilife 08 came out, ill be out the ability to work on old projects.

SWC

Aug 7, 2007, 11:51 PM

For your info. I just got the new iLife, and every app is very improved except imovie. Imovie has become a joke. There is no timeline view. You cant add black (fade in from black, kinda basic) . cant start music before video. Cant fade audio in and out. NO EFFECTS! NO THEMES. All you can do now is color balance the video. It doesn't even open old projects. Ive made some pretty good videos out of old imovie HD, but this new one would be impossible to do what ive done in Imovie. The possible pro power of Imovie, and I have done 1 professional video with imovie, has been stripped away and thrown out. Its now for beginners only that want to make cutsie home movies. Cheapest way to get many features back is to pay 300 for FCE. At least apples doesn't uninstall Imovie HD when ilife 08 installs.

Now if anyone can proove me wrong. Ill be glad to hear, cause im just not finding anything of old. Especially the effects which i love using. seems to be a sad day for 3rd party effect makers.

In the demo he inserted black, I beleive it was under transitions.

But in all honesty it seems like they just made a better distinction between imovie and FCE which overlapped quite a bit. Now there is a compelling reason for a lot of people to upgrade. Does this suck for some people? absolutely. I think they shouldve called it something else to make people realize this is a 1.0 app and im sure new stuff will come in the future instead of "stripping features" from an exisint app. Not saying you are wrong just my observations.

EDIT: Looking at it even more this screams iPhoto for video for my workflow. I use iphoto to catalog etc. and aperture/photoshop to edit. I can see this be my catalogging software for home videos and then editing in FCP.

66217

Aug 8, 2007, 03:00 PM

But in all honesty it seems like they just made a better distinction between imovie and FCE which overlapped quite a bit. Now there is a compelling reason for a lot of people to upgrade.

iMovie and FCE? iMovie HD '07 and FCE 3.5 are SOOOO different.

They are by no means similar. The distinction should be between FCE and FCP, which are VERY similar.

And sometimes iMovie was great to make quick videos with the themes it included. Sometimes you don't need the advanced features of FCE or FCP.
I haven't used the new iMovie, but it would be a shame it is indeed as bad as people are saying it is.

kgarner

Aug 8, 2007, 03:13 PM

If they removed the timeline and effects features then I am going to be much less impressed. In all honesty, I probably don't need those features for the types of movies that I make in iMovie, but I preferred to work in that environment anyway and seeing it go is a definite minus. Everything else looks really good though. I guess I'll reserve final judgment until I can try it myself.

mrgreen4242

Aug 8, 2007, 03:23 PM

Good to hear some opinions on this program. I was really impressed with the demo, but maybe it's not all it's cracked up to be. However, I think that it's good they are starting something new with iMovie... aside from adding more themes, widening hardware support, new transitions, etc. there wasn't a lot they could do with the application imo.

The new iMovie looks like a good starting point for something new at least. I suppose we'll see. Also glad to hear that you can have iMovie 07 and 08 installed at the same time without and work-arounds/hacks. iMovie can be a bit on the intense/complex side for doing a quick little home movie, so they both have their purposes I suppose. To bad they didn't do a small update to iMovie '07 (themes, hardware support, etc) and add this as a new application in iLife (iTube or something, since it's big new feature is a video catalog it sort of makes sense).

telecomm

Aug 8, 2007, 04:00 PM

Hmmm... Might be nicer if it ran on any sort of G4. :(

MacAficionado

Aug 8, 2007, 04:06 PM

Timeline in iMovie was not very good anyways. iMovie 08 rocks. Looks good, to make quick movies without much fuss. When I need the timeline, I'll just work with FCE. Love the AVCHD support.

mrgreen4242

Aug 8, 2007, 04:07 PM

Hmmm... Might be nicer if it ran on any sort of G4. :(

Eh? The Apple website lists G4 as the minimum requirement... http://www.apple.com/ilife/systemrequirements.html

telecomm

Aug 8, 2007, 04:09 PM

Eh? The Apple website lists G4 as the minimum requirement... http://www.apple.com/ilife/systemrequirements.html

Yeah... so, did you actually read it? See the second line.

GFLPraxis

Aug 8, 2007, 04:15 PM

Eh? The Apple website lists G4 as the minimum requirement... http://www.apple.com/ilife/systemrequirements.html

G4 is the min requirement for the iLife package, but iMovie itself requires a single 1.9 GHz G5 or higher.

Even the single 1.8 GHz PowerMac won't run it.

telecomm

Aug 8, 2007, 04:20 PM

G4 is the min requirement for the iLife package, but iMovie itself requires a single 1.9 GHz G5 or higher.

Even the single 1.8 GHz PowerMac won't run it.

No wonder it "improves making good movies fast." ;)

zioxide

Aug 8, 2007, 04:25 PM

So now when's FCE4 coming out with AVCHD support?

mrgreen4242

Aug 8, 2007, 04:41 PM

Yeah... so, did you actually read it? See the second line.

D'oh :o my bad. I read the min requirements on the store page for iLife (which does mention it, but it's all just jumbled together and a bit harder to see) and linked the other page without reading it since links to the store never work right.

Anyways, sorry about that! Very lame to hear about the lack of G4 support, though!

telecomm

Aug 8, 2007, 04:47 PM

D'oh :o my bad. I read the min requirements on the store page for iLife (which does mention it, but it's all just jumbled together and a bit harder to see) and linked the other page without reading it since links to the store never work right.

Anyways, sorry about that! Very lame to hear about the lack of G4 support, though!

No problem, I was disappointed and surprised to hear this myself. I'd be even more frustrated if I had a low spec G5 instead of a nearly 4 year old PowerBook. :D

mrgreen4242

Aug 8, 2007, 04:53 PM

No problem, I was disappointed and surprised to hear this myself. I'd be even more frustrated if I had a low spec G5 instead of a nearly 4 year old PowerBook. :D

Heh. Apple is usually so good about supporting old hardware this really surprises me. After hearing about how dramatic some of the changes are from iMovie 07 to 08 and now the drop of G4 support (and even some G5 machines that aren't that old) I'm really starting to think they should have added it as a new app to iLife. Update the themes and transitions in iMovie, nothing major, just little updates and additions, and then added the new iMovie as being iTube or iVid or something like that... market it as being more like iPhoto for movies (catalog, sort, browse, view, create quick and easy slideshow type movies, etc).

Ah well.

diamond3

Aug 8, 2007, 05:40 PM

sigamy

Aug 8, 2007, 06:37 PM

I agree that Apple should have kept iMovie around and added this new app to iLife. iFlicks or something...

I can see the usefulness for newbies and basic home users. I guess I have no problem with creating a new app for that audience. It looks like a great new, efficient, fun, fast way to edit video and create nice 2-5 minute movies...or should I say videos?

But, isn't one of Apple's traits making great and powerful software that is also very easy to use? Software that brings prosumer features and quality down to a consumer level? Isn't that how iMovie has always been viewed?

I do have a problem with going backwards in features/functionality especially in an app that many people use and love.

And yes, we still have iMovie HD. But, most of us heavy iMovie users were looking for more of the same. More themes--I'm so hooked on themes, more effects, more stability and increased performance tuning for the Intel chips. I was really hoping that the new iMovie was going to scream on my C2D iMac. To know that I'm stuck with iMovie HD and no performance gains isn't great news.

Finally, I don't buy the "move up to FCE" argument. FCE is much more FCP than it is iMovie. It is a different animal. iMovie HD gives us some great features in an easy to use tool.

SWC

Aug 8, 2007, 11:47 PM

iMovie and FCE? iMovie HD '07 and FCE 3.5 are SOOOO different.

They are by no means similar. The distinction should be between FCE and FCP, which are VERY similar.

And sometimes iMovie was great to make quick videos with the themes it included. Sometimes you don't need the advanced features of FCE or FCP.
I haven't used the new iMovie, but it would be a shame it is indeed as bad as people are saying it is.

Yes they were quite a bit different now they are completely different. Instead of going from a similar (in a very simple way) but much less fully featured app you go from a basic app to a light version of "what the big buys use".

I'm sure we will see a few of the features of 06 creep back in but you also have to consider this is a 1.0 app which does have a lot of innovative new features. I still think they should've renamed it or changed the title a bit to help people realize this more as average joe who upgrades won't know this.

Like when premiere went to premiere pro, they started over, most but not all of the features of premiere were there but there was also a lot of new ones and over the last few versions the stuff people missed has come back.

bloodycape

Aug 9, 2007, 01:05 AM

They should have just added AVCHD support, along with a few new transitions, effects(audio and video) to imovie and call it new. Well Apple could have also added some of the bonuses(what the consensus thinks is a plus) of imovie 08 and the new found speed to the current imovie at least. Real disappointment. At leat for me it is.

megfilmworks

Aug 9, 2007, 01:12 AM

I was hoping this would be more like FCP but I guess that's the point.
If you are serious, then use FCP. If you are a hobbyist, then iMovie is probably better. Like one poster mentioned, they are trying to separate the two apps.

telecomm

Aug 9, 2007, 02:55 AM

If anyone installs the new iLife on a G4 be sure to let us know. I'm curious as to whether or not it will even open the app. Apple seems to be dropping the idea of supporting older computers and os. For example I don't know how many programs I've come across that are only for 10.4 or higher. I'd hate to find out that my computer can run FCP 5, yet not be able to run imovie 08.

Apparently it won't install (see here (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=338836)), though one poster did cryptically suggest that it could be made to work.

Edit: Apparently Apple has now made iMovie HD available for download to those who buy iLife 08. (link (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=339371)) So those with an underpowered dual 1.8 Ghz G5 PowerMac can still use iMovie, and all the intel, etc., folks can have both the old iMovie and the new iMovie lite that everyone keeps complaining about. :D

derheld

Aug 9, 2007, 08:58 AM

I am extremly disappointed with the new iLife08.

Hoped also for a iMoiveHD with new themes and transitions, but this new imovie - maybe its good for the extremly-low-end-user, but we all who used imovie will be dissappointed. And I also do not buy the FCE argument, I owned it and it had no advantage to offer except that the usage is much more complicated!!!

Apple should have made an PhotoBooth for Video instead - there they would have covered the low-end and with imovie the DVD-Making users. (I like the argument with imovie now being like WindowsMovieMaker - because it is so true)

I personally have NO interest in youtube, etc, and since I want to make DVDs the new imovie is useless ....

and 2 points annoy me very much about ilife08:
1) the only useful extension is html-snippets in iweb
2) the other is that the update of .mac requires the new iphoto - hello !??!? either you update .mac and enable webgalleries there OR you dont speak of an .mac update and give iweb/iphoto that feature!

so - why should I upgrade to ilife08, steve?
for me thereis no obvious reason, but disadvantages ...

belovedmonster

Aug 9, 2007, 09:23 AM

Hoped also for a iMoiveHD with new themes and transitions

If all you wanted was more eye candy then fear not... the $79 you would have spent on iLife 08 will buy you a bunch of transitions and other eye candy in the form of 3rd party plugins for iMovie HD.

ibglowin

Aug 9, 2007, 09:27 AM

ftaok

Aug 9, 2007, 09:31 AM

Weve been able to import and edit HDV for years. When oh when can we actually burn a Blu-Ray (or anything HD) disc from our HD video?

BD burners are now less than $500 and availble from several makers. I paid that for my first CD burner 9 years ago.

Come on Apple.

I though iDVD is able to burn HD-DVD discs onto standard DVD-R's that are playable on HD-DVD players? I remember reading something about CES2006 where Toshiba's HD-DVD players was running a demo and the disc inside was a DVD-R burned as an HD-DVD using iDVD (or maybe it was DVD Studio).

Anyways, I know it's not the best option, but it's out there.

Multimedia

Aug 9, 2007, 09:36 AM

So now when's FCE4 coming out with AVCHD support?After they sell a ton of iLife '08 copies to all the frustrated AVCHD camcorder owners who can't wait. :p :D ;) :rolleyes: :eek:

ibglowin

Aug 9, 2007, 09:42 AM

Nope.

iDVD can't burn anything in HD. Zip, zilch, nada.

DVD Studio Pro/Final Cut Pro can burn some sort of HD-DVD (or so I've read).

I though iDVD is able to burn HD-DVD discs onto standard DVD-R's that are playable on HD-DVD players? I remember reading something about CES2006 where Toshiba's HD-DVD players was running a demo and the disc inside was a DVD-R burned as an HD-DVD using iDVD (or maybe it was DVD Studio).

Anyways, I know it's not the best option, but it's out there.

sknifton

Aug 9, 2007, 10:04 AM

CmdrLaForge

Aug 9, 2007, 05:10 PM

Today iLife 08 arrived. It is just fantastic. Including iMovie. I just created an movie and shared it on youtube. That took me like no time. I used some pictures from an event in iPhoto and really BOOM. Placed them into the new "timeline" - choose a Intro and a song and BOOM. Movie ready to upload on youtube. Apple is sooo far ahead of the competition here. Unbelievable.

Multimedia

Aug 9, 2007, 05:11 PM

Multimedia

Aug 9, 2007, 05:17 PM

i never, EVER thought i'd say this: imovie 08 makes imovie 06 look good.

what a scam ... no timeline ? no chapter markers / makers ? i CAN'T EVEN DRAG A .MOV FILE INTO IT ?? !!

i used to create enhanced podcasts on imovie hd, this new version is completely useless for that purpose. after wasting an entire night on imovie, i can't quite figure out WHAT it's good for ....

they dropped the ball on this one. bad, bad, bad thievery.

waste of money.Did you even open GarageBand yet? :rolleyes:

OK so that's one vote for "It Blows". Now for the rebuttal take it away Commander LaForge:Today iLife 08 arrived. It is just fantastic. Including iMovie. I just created an movie and shared it on youtube. That took me like no time. I used some pictures from an event in iPhoto and really BOOM. Placed them into the new "timeline" - choose a Intro and a song and BOOM. Movie ready to upload on youtube. Apple is sooo far ahead of the competition here. Unbelievable.OK so now we know that software quality is in the eye of the user who knows what he/she is doing or something like that ... :eek: ;)

Thank you both for a totally confusing pair of conclusions. My money's on the Commander BTW. :)

Ghibli

Aug 9, 2007, 10:31 PM

From what I've seen on the web I'm very sad to say that I do not like it at all. I'm sure that the new iMovie is wonderful to edit a 5 minute video to share on youtube, but it seems that it lacks all the features that are needed for longer projects...

iDVD is the only app that may make me buy iLife08... really sad... (numbers, on the other side may be the reason for buy iWork08...)

vandlism

Aug 9, 2007, 10:35 PM

Anyone else wondering if iMovie could have quite a few Leopard technologies built-in that they're just waiting to release?

Chundles

Aug 9, 2007, 10:43 PM

There never was a 1.9GHz G5

HAHAH!!!

At last I can prove you unequivocally wrong!! I am the king!!

No but seriously, it's a bit rich that they took a lot of the cool stuff out of iMovie - hopefully they add some of the control features back into it. Can you even fade music in and out during a film?

Glenn Wolsey

Aug 10, 2007, 12:04 AM

Misinformation from Apple says minimum is 1.9GHz G5. It's a Typo. We have a report over in Apple Software that it installs fine on 1.8GHz iMacs as well. There never was a 1.9GHz G5 and a whole lot of 1.8GHz G5 iMacs as well as PowerMacs.

Actually, there was a 1.9Ghz G5 iMac. When Apple reshaped the machine with a slimmer trim, added an in-built iSight and Front Row, the G5 iMac could be had in 1.9Ghz and 2.1Ghz flavors.

scotthayes

Aug 10, 2007, 02:33 AM

Can't see what everyone is moaning about. iMovie 08 does what it says on the tin, and that is, it lets you create a little 5 minute video in no time at all. So there is no time line, and there are not as many this or not as much of that, but let's be honest, who cares? It's a fantastic program for creating little 5 minute or so videos in no time at all.

Seems I keep repeating the "little 5 minute video bit" well, that's because iMovie is for that, if you want to make huge impressive videos with loads of different effects and have to spend hours doing so, then go buy FCE or FCP (I will admit I've told my wife I want FCE for christmas :) )

But one of the best thing about iMovie 08 is the support for AVCHD, I plugged my Sony HDR-SR5 in to my MacBook Pro yesterday (after taking the 10 minutes to install iLife 08 with out a single issue, note to Vista users, can you do that with MS software???) and it just downloaded the videos and off I went, not big manuals to read, not clicking on help. IT JUST WORKED.

So to finish off, quit your moaning about iMovie 08, if you want to be the next Oscar winning film editor buy the big boys toys, if you want to make a movie of your friend falling on their arse while trying to show off, get iMovie 08

ozruru

Aug 10, 2007, 03:04 AM

I agreed. we somehow get used to old version lots of functions, when new version did not keep them they have their reasons. Let's just keep old iMovie ( I will rename it to"iMovie 6" ) then work on new iMovie 8.
All I want to know is how to get best output --- a real hde DVD from Mac (or PC) by using existing stuffs is possible.:)

derheld

Aug 10, 2007, 03:13 AM

Weve been able to import and edit HDV for years. When oh when can we actually burn a Blu-Ray (or anything HD) disc from our HD video?

Full Ack!
What do we get HD support for if we are not able to save the data?
I use iMovieHD and the only option I have so far ist to save it to a Harddisk and play the video by connecting my mac to the TV - that is not Apple-like :-(

derheld

Aug 10, 2007, 03:15 AM

Multimedia

Aug 10, 2007, 03:29 AM

Actually, there was a 1.9Ghz G5 iMac. When Apple reshaped the machine with a slimmer trim, added an in-built iSight and Front Row, the G5 iMac could be had in 1.9Ghz and 2.1Ghz flavors.I sit corrected. Thanks guys.

CmdrLaForge

Aug 10, 2007, 03:47 AM

Did you even open GarageBand yet? :rolleyes:

OK so that's one vote for "It Blows". Now for the rebuttal take it away Commander LaForge:OK so now we know that software quality is in the eye of the user who knows what he/she is doing or something like that ... :eek: ;)

Thank you both for a totally confusing pair of conclusions. My money's on the Commander BTW. :)

Hi again.

I would like to comment on my comment. First I have to say that I use Final Cut to edit my movies. Love FCS 2 so far beside Motion because it constantly crashes on my Macbook Pro. But today Apple released a fix and hope it works now.

Anyway - I am amazed by iMovie. Of course not by the lack of features that it obviously has but really by the way Apple realizes and implements the Zeitgeist into this App.

This is not a NLE for semi-Pros or Pros. Maybe even not for the more enthusiastic home movie maker but for the ton of people who create little movies and post them on youtube.

You can really make a little movie in no time. As I said I created this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZrgST0boXA) in about 3 minutes. I took pictures from an event (iMovie as well sorts the pictures by events) and moved them on the "timeline". Selected an Apple Loop. Added a title and published on youtube. The integration is fantastic.

Now - you have like no creative controls over the thing. That makes it fast. For example Ken Burns effect. You can only select if you want the effect or not. In the old iMovie you could and had to choose start and stop and by that determine the Zoom and Pan. Gone in '08.

I am amazed how Apple comes up with new concepts and throughs proves ones away. That makes Apple Apple. This the current Zeitgeist in app.

Edit: after the latest update for the Macbook Pro 17" 2.4 GHz SR Motion 3 works. Thats great. I have it for quite some time now and couldn't use it.

macbotics

Aug 10, 2007, 04:31 AM

Dont get me started on the new icon! :mad:
It doent match any of the other ilife members!

sigamy

Aug 10, 2007, 09:55 AM

Hi again.

This is not a NLE for semi-Pros or Pros. Maybe even not for the more enthusiastic home movie maker but for the ton of people who create little movies and post them on youtube.

You can really make a little movie in no time. As I said I created this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZrgST0boXA) in about 3 minutes. I took pictures from an event (iMovie as well sorts the pictures by events) and moved them on the "timeline". Selected an Apple Loop. Added a title and published on youtube. The integration is fantastic.

I agree with everything you've said...iMovie '08 is great for small, quick & dirty little videos or slideshows.

But slideshows are not movies. And when did this pressing need for getting things done in 20 minutes arrive to the world? Doesn't art take time?

Most people complaining have really no issues with this brand new application. It introduces some great new features like the library, scrubbing and drag selections.

We have issues with the fact that it has replaced iMovie HD and that version 6 is the last version we will probably see.

It is just very curious how we got from iMovie HD 6 with themes, which is basically motion graphics templates, video and audio effects, and iDVD support to this new iMovie '08.

mrgreen4242

Aug 10, 2007, 12:03 PM

I agree with everything you've said...iMovie '08 is great for small, quick & dirty little videos or slideshows.

But slideshows are not movies. And when did this pressing need for getting things done in 20 minutes arrive to the world? Doesn't art take time?

Since YouTube. I've been thinking about this, and I really think that 80% of all the camcorders in the world are owned by people who want to edit quick little vids like this... there's a relatively small number of people who really edit their video into "works of art".

Most people complaining have really no issues with this brand new application. It introduces some great new features like the library, scrubbing and drag selections.

We have issues with the fact that it has replaced iMovie HD and that version 6 is the last version we will probably see.

It is just very curious how we got from iMovie HD 6 with themes, which is basically motion graphics templates, video and audio effects, and iDVD support to this new iMovie '08.

Since '06 is being made available I think Apple has done a great thing. They're giving people choices, and hopefully the new iMovie will grow to incorporate the features that people miss from '06 eventually.

Anyways, I had a quick question about AVCHD support: does iMovie import that format as AIC like it does HDV (which is ~36gb/hour right for HD correct?) or is it editing on those files directly somehow? Also, can it export to AVCHD? Since iMovie is built to work with that format I'd be interested in archiving HDV footage on DVD in AVCHD.

I know there will be detail loss, but for some/many things that are only moderately important it would be a cheap and convenient way to archive pretty high quality original/unedited video. What I mean is keeping the DV tape ($4 a pop for good ones you'd want to use in an HDV cam) is an expensive thing to do if you shoot a lot, in my opinion. Keeping "important" tapes is one thing (a couple tapes from a vacation, weddings, etc) but just everyday little things would add up and it would be nice to throw 45-60 minutes of "raw" video onto a DVD-R and reuse the tape.

alFR

Aug 10, 2007, 12:22 PM

Dont get me started on the new icon! :mad:
It doent match any of the other ilife members!

Yes, because a camera in front of a photo, a clapperboard, a DVD, a guitar and a corkboard all have a unified look and feel. Oh, hang on.... :rolleyes:

notjustjay

Aug 10, 2007, 12:29 PM

I haven't seen the new iMovie yet (nor do I even have the latest "old" version of iMovie) but from what it sounds like, it would have been nice if Apple retained the old iMovie in addition to providing this new one. The new one could have been called something else... iTube maybe? :D Or offer the new "easy mode" interface as part of the existing iMovie package.

Still, I'll reserve actual judgement until I play with it in person.

pna

Aug 10, 2007, 12:43 PM

I feel awfully confident that all of the features that people loved about iMovie HD will eventually make it back into the new iMovie '08, but I definitely feel the pain of the people that were hoping for getting updates to the HD version during *this* product cycle. It's hard for me to imagine them maintaining and developing two apps with such overall similarities in use as part of the iLife suite, so a true merger seems pretty inevitable.

Unfortunately, that means that by the next iteration (iMovie '10?) we'll be back to where we were with iMovie '06 with the added features of '08, and maybe by iLife '12 there will be the improvements people were hoping for this iteration. Yikes.

Ghibli

Aug 10, 2007, 02:30 PM

GeeYouEye

Aug 10, 2007, 03:38 PM

For anyone complaining, just sign up for an online ADC account and submit a bug report (http://bugreport.apple.com). File an enhancement request for the timeline.

cclements07

Aug 11, 2007, 03:30 AM

Heh. Apple is usually so good about supporting old hardware this really surprises me. After hearing about how dramatic some of the changes are from iMovie 07 to 08 and now the drop of G4 support (and even some G5 machines that aren't that old) I'm really starting to think they should have added it as a new app to iLife. Update the themes and transitions in iMovie, nothing major, just little updates and additions, and then added the new iMovie as being iTube or iVid or something like that... market it as being more like iPhoto for movies (catalog, sort, browse, view, create quick and easy slideshow type movies, etc).

Ah well.

For anyone who shares this opinion:
Now that you have made this realization, does it even matter what apple should have done? you can have both imovies sit on your dock side by side, and rename the new imovie itube or whatever you want to call it, and use the two programs for their different features. imovie hd is already great as it is for timeline editing, and the new imovie is excellent for cataloguing your video and compiling snappy homeflicks. as for new updated themes/transitions, if you really want more, buy third party plugins.

mrgreen4242

Aug 11, 2007, 09:33 AM

For anyone who shares this opinion:
Now that you have made this realization, does it even matter what apple should have done? you can have both imovies sit on your dock side by side, and rename the new imovie itube or whatever you want to call it, and use the two programs for their different features. imovie hd is already great as it is for timeline editing, and the new imovie is excellent for cataloguing your video and compiling snappy homeflicks. as for new updated themes/transitions, if you really want more, buy third party plugins.

I posted that before Apple released iMovie '06 as a free download... so they did, in effect, do what I suggested.

zwida

Aug 12, 2007, 05:30 PM

After they sell a ton of iLife '08 copies to all the frustrated AVCHD camcorder owners who can't wait. :p :D ;) :rolleyes: :eek:

Exactly. I just went and bought it today for that very reason. Yeah, I was a fool to buy the HDR-SR1 in the first place, but at least now I can use it...:o

derheld

Aug 13, 2007, 03:20 AM

you can have both imovies sit on your dock side by side, and rename the new imovie itube or whatever you want to call it, and use the two programs for their different features..

the problem is that imovieHD will not be continued! no stability improvements, no new themes, whatsoever ...

I could live with 2 different apps, but a cancelled 06 is a bad thing!!!

marlinpast

Aug 13, 2007, 10:53 AM

Is it possible to capture AVCHD footage in iMovie '08 and edit it in iMovie HD?

ftaok

Aug 13, 2007, 12:54 PM

Is it possible to capture AVCHD footage in iMovie '08 and edit it in iMovie HD?

That's actually a good thought.

Apparently, iMovie'08 converts AVCHD footage directly into AIC. I suppose that if you can find the converted AIC files, you could then import that into an iMovie'06 project.

It's worth a try. Only not by me since I have neither an AVCHD camcorder nor iMovie'08.

ft

Exposay

Aug 13, 2007, 09:51 PM

I'm glad that I'm not the only person highly disappointed with the new iMovie. I was so angry I threw together a quick movie about it:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=guGh1GRkgUY

The YouTube upload functionality is great! I wish there was a standalone application that did it. (Somebody, make it!)

scotthayes

Aug 20, 2007, 11:49 AM

I thing the problem is just that. It can't do anything more than a 5 minute video for youtube... I will stick with iLife 06...

Changed my mind about iMovie 08 and 5 minute videos.

I got married the other weekend (August 12th) and a friend used my Sony HDR-SR5 and recorded over 3 hours of video. I spent a few hours before my honeymoon and put together a video together that was over an hour in length.

Took about 2 1/2 hours to export it (large size video) and 1 3/4 in iDVD but it was so simple to do.

So forget just 5 minutes of video, you can do an hour long movie with no problems.

sturigdson

Aug 20, 2007, 12:03 PM

I'm a film/video freelance editor, working in FCP.
iMovie has, for me, always been a ridiculous problem- completely useless. Always felt like it was too bulky, slow, and unintiuitive to be any use, and other than using the "Free" video editing software that came with your mac, I couldn't justify ever using it.
Also, I felt [and feel] that users who needed more from the program in terms of filters, effects, and transitions, would be much better served upgrading to FCE.

This radical rewrite has completely shocked me, actually. The program has been altered from something that was too restrictive and cumbersome for me to ever use to something that I, quite honestly, expect to use regularly now. For fast cuts of projects, small projects, multiformat projects, it really seems to be a great, intuitive solution.

I did not expect I'd say this, but I'm a fan.

Ghibli

Aug 20, 2007, 06:24 PM

Changed my mind about iMovie 08 and 5 minute videos.

I got married the other weekend (August 12th) and a friend used my Sony HDR-SR5 and recorded over 3 hours of video. I spent a few hours before my honeymoon and put together a video together that was over an hour in length.

<SNIP>

So forget just 5 minutes of video, you can do an hour long movie with no problems.

Really? Heve you been able to add a bit of slow-motion to the rice shower? or a bit of sepia tone in some sequences? or just a really soft focus on that wonderful kiss, or maybe duck the soundtrack and higher the original audio on the BIG yes?

In small words, have you ever been able to do something "creative"?

If not you are not editing a video, but are assembling some clips toghether. Everithing is fine , but they are two different things, just as imovie '06 and this '08 iclip thing are different programs. I like the first one.

PS: congratulations for your wedding! Really from the heart!

scotthayes

Aug 21, 2007, 03:06 AM

Really? Heve you been able to add a bit of slow-motion to the rice shower? or a bit of sepia tone in some sequences? or just a really soft focus on that wonderful kiss, or maybe duck the soundtrack and higher the original audio on the BIG yes?

In small words, have you ever been able to do something "creative"?

If not you are not editing a video, but are assembling some clips toghether. Everithing is fine , but they are two different things, just as imovie '06 and this '08 iclip thing are different programs. I like the first one.

PS: congratulations for your wedding! Really from the heart!

There were no bit suitable for slow motion. We tend to eat rice in England, not throw it at people. The wedding ceremony itself wasn't recorded as it's considered a little tacky to do that in England

and I never mentioned editing. I love iMovie 08 for simply throwing the different recording together. If I wanted to do all you mentioned I would have bought Final Cut Express HD (and will by just as soon as I find out if it supports AVCHD).

Why should iMovie 08 do all that FCE or FCS can do, after all iPhoto isn't exactly Photoshop is it.

Thank you for you congratulations.

telecomm

Aug 21, 2007, 03:17 AM

Why should iMovie 08 do all that FCE or FCS can do, after all iPhoto isn't exactly Photoshop is it.

The point was that iMovie 08 should do all that iMovie HD could.

I don't have iMovie 08 yet (since it can't run on a G4), but did they really remove slow motion?!

Jeez, I used slow motion when editing video of my kitten jumping around—I never thought that was enough to warrant FCE...

bimmzy

Aug 21, 2007, 11:17 AM

imovie 08 is all brand new, but in some important ways it has unfortunately less functionality.
That doesn’t mean it’s a complete waste of space, it's just different. Its being aimed at a wider audience.
Believe it or not the old I movie can seem daunting to some people who are new to editing video. I genuinely think this is apple's attempt to get more people editing there own videos with confidence.

Apple acknowledge that there is an issue with the redesign, especially if users need something more sophisticated like the old imove. That is why they are offering a free download of imovie 6 to purchaser of ilife 08.
So if you buy a copy like I have, you will have the option of editing the way you want.

http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/imovieHD6.html

Ghibli

Aug 21, 2007, 07:48 PM

There were no bit suitable for slow motion. We tend to eat rice in England, not throw it at people.

I can assure you that here in Italy there are more recipes on how to cook rice than you can ever dream in alla your life, nonetheless here in Italy is considered of good auspice to throw it at the end of a marriage (it is a simbol of fertility). In England, if I recall correctly, you have the "Something old, something new,Something borrowed, something blue, And a silver sixpence in her shoe" bit. (to paraphrase you, here in Italy we prefer to spend money instead than keeping them in a shoe).

The wedding ceremony itself wasn't recorded as it's considered a little tacky to do that in England

Different places, different habits...

Why should iMovie 08 do all that FCE or FCS can do, after all iPhoto isn't exactly Photoshop is it.

If you are saying this I should assume you have never seen neither iMovie 06 nor FC. You are comparing apples to oranges. The difference between the two is enormous, just as the one between iMovie 08 and iMovie 06. And nobody here is complaining for the lack of new features of imovie, but for the lack of the ALREADY EXISTING features.

Thank you for you congratulations.

You're welcome, it really came from the bottom of my hearth.

Ghibli

Aug 21, 2007, 07:55 PM

The point was that iMovie 08 should do all that iMovie HD could.

I don't have iMovie 08 yet (since it can't run on a G4), but did they really remove slow motion?!

They removed all audio and video effects altogether. slow-motion, sepia, quick-motion, soft focus etc etc etc....

also audio editing is severely impaired (you cannot vary volume inside a clip, just to say one, just edit the volume for the entire clip),

Ghibli

Aug 21, 2007, 08:01 PM

Apple acknowledge that there is an issue with the redesign, especially if users need something more sophisticated like the old imove. That is why they are offering a free download of imovie 6 to purchaser of ilife 08.

Apple started to offer imovie 06 for free download after all the mac websites have been caught by a firestorm of users'complains. And the problem is that (Apple confirmed this, according to David Pogue) there will be no more bugfixing or developing on iMovie 06. So, in a couple of years 06 will be useless (no more support for new camcorders, and probably not running in new OSes or processors...and this is a pity.

bimmzy

Aug 22, 2007, 05:49 AM

Im not sure i agree with that entirely.
I bought ilife 08 a day after release from the apple store in regents street , London.
when i installed it i noticed every other app, iphoto, garageband, etc. etc., where just updated. with imovie 08 interestingly an imovie 6 folder was created with the app nestling inside.
So either apple HAVE acknowledged that there are issues with the redesign, or they where anticipating some criticism from users, either way THEY HAVE PLANNED FOR IT, and thus made the necessary allowances, regardless of being 'caught by a firestorm of users'complains'! :p

telecomm

Aug 22, 2007, 05:53 AM

So either apple HAVE acknowledged that there are issues with the redesign, or they where anticipating some criticism from users, either way THEY HAVE PLANNED FOR IT, and thus made the necessary allowances, regardless of being 'caught by a firestorm of users'complains'! :p

The 'firestorm of users' complaints' brought about the availability of iMovie HD as a separate download for people who bought iLife 08 (and those who got new computers with iLife O8 installed). :p

demallien

Aug 22, 2007, 09:39 AM

There were no bit suitable for slow motion. We tend to eat rice in England, not throw it at people.

*snark*
Oh. Really? You sure that that's what "we" do in England? Had a listen to "Eleanor Rigby" by the Beatles recently? Maybe you meant "My family and friends"...
*/snark*

That aside, I'm very interested by your comments on iMovie 08. I can understand that for keen amateurs, this will be a painful transition. I was one of those that used iMovie to its fullest, before finding its limitations too frustrating and buying FCE.

But at the same time, I have a ton of footage that I have never put together because it was all just too time-consuming in the old iMovie. I guess that's why Apple redid the whole app - for those that wanted to do some real editting, the old version's limitations were just too evident, and for just a simple montage, it was too complex. Example - you've put together your whole clip, nicely synched to the music that you are playing in the background. then you decide that you really need to add a transition between two clips. Oh, bugger, there goes that synch. It'll take you another 10-15 mins to get everything synched again.

That said, I would never have bought FCE if I hadn't got bitten by the video editing bug whilst using iMovie. And I'm not sure that the new version will get people hooked in the same way.

armani

Aug 22, 2007, 11:46 AM

I used to do a lot of editing, using final cut pro and sometimes I would just use iMovie to do a quick and simple edits. I looked at new iMovie 08 - I don't get it. No timeline?

It's the support for the advanced HD codec that is exciting. Also audio is usually prepared in other programs like ProTools or Soundstage, GarageBand, etc. and then you layback to picture. Some favorite features may go, but the new ones will soon be favorites.

I can not work on the sound, tune things up with precision without seeing the whole picture. I downloaded iMovie 06. I will try to use 08 for home movies and only then I can say if I like it. May be it is a fun program to use?

armani

Aug 22, 2007, 11:55 AM

So what's your beef? You now have two movie making apps on your Mac.

His beef is WHY to degrade..... Apple could improve iMovie and make an option for beginners and for advanced user, add more effect, transitions, and so on. more features. What was done instead - just threw a good program in the trash. Looks like apple wants people buy Final Cut Express......

xsedrinam

Aug 22, 2007, 01:12 PM

I only used iMovie for editing in some of the nice GeeThree/Slick effects and transitions before exporting it in to FCP. Now, I basically have no use for it. And since iDVD 5-7 templates are no longer useable with DVDSP 4, I really wish I hadn't picked up the $US79 bundle just for an iPhoto upgrade. It's like walking backwards up the stairs.

scotthayes

Aug 22, 2007, 05:16 PM

*snark*
Oh. Really? You sure that that's what "we" do in England? Had a listen to "Eleanor Rigby" by the Beatles recently? Maybe you meant "My family and friends"...
*/snark*

Yeah, we eat rice, not throw it, we use something called confetti at weddings. And if you are going to quote the Beatles to put across an argument you must remember that they also said "I am the egg man, I am the walrus"

My point is this. iMovie 08 is excellent for putting together movie clips.

Apple have made iMovie 06 available as a free download, but I guess some people just like to moan.

Ghibli

Aug 22, 2007, 07:04 PM

Yeah, we eat rice, not throw it, we use something called confetti at weddings.

Ahem, I'm not british as you know but, according to

http://www.weddingtosses.com/rose-petal-history.shtml :

"It is said that the throwing of wedding rose petals and confetti, rather rice, began in 1988, when Ann Landers invented the story of birds exploding after eating dried rice, in order to discourage the throwing of rice at weddings. This, of course, is nonsense, otherwise there would be few birds left in China! The tradition probably reduced in popularity because dried rice is very slippery when trod upon, and in the modern litigious society we live in, confetti and rose petals are safer.
However, rose petals are not bird friendly, and many churches have banned the use of confetti. "

So maybe someone in England is still throwing rice at the weddings...

Anyway, my first example works well also with a confetti shower.

Apple have made iMovie 06 available as a free download, but I guess some people just like to moan.

C'mon Scott, do not insult your intelligence saying this. The ability to download iM06 is just a bit of sugar to calm down users. And is mostly useless as many of those complaining already had on their hard drive iM06 (frequently bundled with tons of third party plug-ins). The problem is that iM06 is a dead app now and you cannot know if it will work again with the next software update.

I, for one, have already ordered a copy of final cut express (299 €) and I already know it will be a pain to learn to use it just to do half of the things I used to do in iMovie 06. FCE is a very powerful app, really more powerful than iMovie 06, but is designed for professionals that can invest a lot of time into learning it. iMovie 06 could be mastered in just a couple of hours to do most of the stuff you need to do home movies and some friends weddings. iMovie '08... well it's nothing to do with iMovie, is never a movie editor anymore.It's just a (bad) clip assembler with a couple of cool features. Very cool to see it, but really CPU intensive (Final Cut Pro - a professional video editing application - can run flawlessly on a G4 Powerbook, whereas iMovie 08 - a dumb clip assembler - needs, at least, a 1.9 GHz G5 to run... )

bimmzy

Aug 23, 2007, 09:38 AM

The 'firestorm of users' complaints' brought about the availability of iMovie HD

No it wasn't. my point is that apple anticipated the criticism before they released ilife 08.

if not why create a separate folder to put imovie 6 in when installing imovie 08?? :confused:

..... as an upgrade???

telecomm

Aug 23, 2007, 09:58 AM

No it wasn't. my point is that apple anticipated the criticism before they released ilife 08.

if not why create a separate folder to put imovie 6 in when installing imovie 08?? :confused:

..... as an upgrade???

Presumably they did that because if you're midway through a project in HD, you won't be able to do much with it in 08. So if you've got HD projects on the go, you still need it. Also, iWork updates have always been like this (new folder for the new apps, leaving the old intact), and I don't think they do that because of anticipated criticism. :D

People who already own HD get to keep it, that's no big surprise. But anyone who skipped iLife 06 also now gets to download iMovie HD when they buy 08, and that doesn't seem to have been planned out in advance. Unless you've got some inside info we don't know about... :D

ftaok

Aug 23, 2007, 11:24 AM

People who already own HD get to keep it, that's no big surprise. But anyone who skipped iLife 06 also now gets to download iMovie HD when they buy 08, and that doesn't seem to have been planned out in advance. Unless you've got some inside info we don't know about... :D

Perhaps the iMovie06 download is for people with G4's and G5's that buy iLife'08 for the updated iPhoto, GarageBand, iDVD, and iWeb apps, but can't run iMovie. So now, they can be up to date on all of the other apps and get iMovie06.

Apple could be throwing a bone to users of older Macs that hadn't upgraded to iLife'06 previously.

ft

telecomm

Aug 23, 2007, 12:39 PM

Perhaps the iMovie06 download is for people with G4's and G5's that buy iLife'08 for the updated iPhoto, GarageBand, iDVD, and iWeb apps, but can't run iMovie. So now, they can be up to date on all of the other apps and get iMovie06.

Apple could be throwing a bone to users of older Macs that hadn't upgraded to iLife'06 previously.

ft

Yup, that could be too. I guess we'll probably never know the truth... ;)

alzatron

Aug 25, 2007, 11:39 PM

I love learning new things and I love Apple, but iMovie 08 is a giant step backwards from iMovie 06.

Adobe, Microsoft and others are rubbing their hands over this stumble by Apple, there is now a big gap in Macintosh mid-level video editing software.

* No Chapter Markers for iDVD
* No Share to iDVD
* No timeline
* No granularity--only global audio changes allowed
* Loss of multiple audio tracks
* No sound on import
* Loss of plugin support
* Cannot change transition speed after inserting a transition without making global changes
* No audio waveforms
* Cannot vary clip speed
* No pause control for titles
* Cannot play audio over black (when the clip is over, so is your audio. Apple knows best!)
* Cannot select a sequence of clips to move elsewhere within the movie
* Cannot overlap audio tracks (again...no multiple tracks)
* No themes (they WERE amazing)
* Cannot extract audio (of course, you can't do much of ANYTHING with audio in this thing)
* Cannot import projects from older versions without losing, well...everything important.

xsedrinam

Aug 26, 2007, 12:38 AM

Some of us have reloaded iMovie HD 6 (http://www.apple.com/support/downloads/imovieHD6.html), and are happy we did. (It's only available for those who've purchased and installed iLife '08, I believe.)

aroy

Aug 26, 2007, 07:02 AM

Hi Ladies & Gents: I've been a Mac user for a very long time, since the stone age of pre-PowerPC MacPlus days. So, no surprise here using iMovie '08, AVCHD, and, any and all G4/G5 incompatibilities. Why? Simple, and you and many of you may know why. Apple needs to squeeze every dollar out of us, no matter how many people complain. The only way to get Apple's attention is to meet them with a team of lawyers and prove that they may indeed be misleading customers and perhaps engaged in the art of "planned obsolescence". Anyway, did any G4/G5 owner actually think Apple is going to let us get away with not paying in, AGAIN? As in having to purchase yet another modern operating system and hardware that should, by Apple's standards, work seamlessly? As Apple paves the way for a new generation of Intel Macs, PowerPC will go by the way side, even with something as basic as iMovie? We've seen it before when Apple moved users to PowerPC Processor heaven! So, why all the frustration with something that was so predictable? Well there WAS always hope that Apple would cut many of us the slack they should be offering their loyal customers. And, as I sit hear typing on an $8K souped-up G5 Quad, while my wife's 2GHz MacBook struggles to overcome a number of deficiencies, like: way less processing power, RAID drives (external & internal), loads of RAM, and so on, I'm mad as ‘heck’ that the guy at the Apple Store who sold me this wonderful computer (not that long ago) said to me, "Your making a good investment". Furthermore, it just took my wife's little Intel 2Ghz MacBook (1GbRAM - via fw400 to an external 100Gb HD) close to ONE HOUR to transcode just 8 minutes or so of AVCHD vacation video. And, as some other fellow noted on another AVCHD blog, the transcoding practically quadruples the amount of disk space from the original files, which happens to be streaming from my Sony SR1 AVCHD camera. Look folks, the bottom line to Apple’s AVCHD thing is it would be nice if the whole operation wasn't so tedious, time consuming, and costly. And, we still don't know if we’ll be able to work with those transcoded HD files on say a G5 Quad (i.e. the "good investment"). Stay tuned…. I’m willing to be that it will be many more hours before that little Intel MacBook finishes doing its AVCHD transcoding thing. Then maybe, just maybe, I’ll get to have just a little more of that FUN the Apple promos get us to wholeheartedly buy into.

a roy

scotthayes

Aug 26, 2007, 02:03 PM

And, as I sit hear typing on an $8K souped-up G5 Quad, while my wife's 2GHz MacBook struggles to overcome a number of deficiencies, like: way less processing power, RAID drives (external & internal), loads of RAM, and so on,

a roy

bit unfair to compare a £800 laptop to a £4,000 desktop (converted $ to £)

aroy

Aug 27, 2007, 11:00 AM

bit unfair to compare a £800 laptop to a £4,000 desktop (converted $ to £)

your point is well taken, however, not in context to why I said as much

ftaok

Aug 27, 2007, 02:41 PM

Look folks, the bottom line to Apple’s AVCHD thing is it would be nice if the whole operation wasn't so tedious, time consuming, and costly. And, we still don't know if we’ll be able to work with those transcoded HD files on say a G5 Quad (i.e. the "good investment"). Stay tuned…. I’m willing to be that it will be many more hours before that little Intel MacBook finishes doing its AVCHD transcoding thing. Then maybe, just maybe, I’ll get to have just a little more of that FUN the Apple promos get us to wholeheartedly buy into.

a roy

Maybe I'm misreading your post, but I really wanted to comment.

1. Apple did not invent AVCHD. Apple is really forced to support AVCHD because it's looking like it will be the eventual winner in the HD camcorder format war. Apple has to use AIC because editing AVCHD is very hardware intensive. The tradeoff is that AIC file sizes are huge, but there's no way to get around that. DV is 25 Mbps for (720x480). I've read that AIC is about 100 Mbps (1920x1080). Just looking at that, AIC has about 6x the pixel count, but is only 4x the bit rate. Seems to me that the size of AIC files is just fine. NOTE - I'm not exactly sure if AIC is set to 24fps or 29.97fps.

2. As for G5's not being supported ... I'm not sure if the G5 has the capability of converting AVCHD to AIC. I understand that the MB is slow at it, but would a Quad-G5 be any faster? I don't know the answer to this.

ft